I understand you make popularized Music Theory 101 content but a claim like this is just irresponsible and obviously wrong. Even if you want to live in this weird, small world where triads are the 'only real chords', a theory that comes to the conclusion that C Major and A Minor are fundamentally different chords but C Major 7 and G Major dominant are fundamentally the same even in the same piece in succession isn't remotely helpful for many styles of music. Even as a way to make improvising easier as you assert, not being able to differentiate between a dominant function and tonic function chord is only going to hinder you in the long run. I get why you're making this video. But saying people should learn to look past chord extensions more often is quite a softer claim than 'There are only three types of chords'
TL;DR: No, it's the opposite. What video are you watching, yo? Longer answer: I never said that triads are the only real chords (it's your assumption). I never said that you can't distinguish between Cmaj7 and G7, indeed I said the exact opposite: C major 7 is a Major chord; G dominant 7 is a Dominant chord. I did not make any of the statements you claim are "irresponsible and obviously wrong". If you disagree, provide the timestamps at which I say that, so we can discuss it.
You know, I actually spent a rather embarrassing 45 minutes typing a much too long reply to this where I mentioned many things: Chord function, picardy thirds, minor third substitutions, modal mixtures that change the 'accepted' note while still being the 'same chord' in any appreciable sense, etc. and eventually ended up suggesting Hindemith's The Craft of Musical Composition as a more useful (if still flawed) alternative. But I don't think it's worth being embroiled in an internet argument, and I'd rather just be done with it here. Instead, I want to apologize for my initial reply. I was in a rush before work and typed rather hastily, adding 'dominant chord' to bolster my point. That was obviously a stupid thing to say since dominant is one of your types. The point I was more trying to make is that this theory ignored function, which is an indispensable part of many styles of Western music. Regardless, whatever I meant to say is not what I said and that's churlish of me. You obviously put quite a bit of time and enthusiasm in your content and I could've at least written a more carefully worded critique or not one at all. So I'm sorry for that. I'll try and do better by choosing the latter this time.
I appreciate your answer. Overall, I agree with your comments. This video indeed ignores function (and it ignores several other things too). One of the reasons is that what I talk about here would also work in modal and non-functional settings. When I talk about "type of chords" here I mean strictly in the sense of chord-scale theory i.e. the "internal" structure of the chord (as opposed to the "context" of the chord in the key, that is what function is more about). Discussing all these topics is interesting but fraught with peril due to the multiple meaning of the word "dominant" ruclips.net/video/d6oLVpoePuA/видео.html and the multiplicity of definitions for functions (for instance, last time I checked, there was still an ongoing debate if classical augmented 6th chords are subdominants or dominants of the dominant). Anyway, I appreciate your comment and taking this exchange back to a rational level. This happens so rarely today. THANK YOU.
Your reading that “ but C Major 7 and G Major dominant [7?] are fundamentally the same” is what he’s saying? Umm…it’s not. C7 falls into the Dom category. (The flat b makes the chord want to go somewhere else… like resolve to G major) G M(ajor) 7? It falls into the major category. Let me know if you have q’s. Cheers.
thank you for getting people to realize the relationships of chords, it’s all the 3rd and 7th, and the 3 behaviors. Kindof like how all color can be made from RGB. All progressions can be made from Maj, Min, and Dominant behavior.
"yEaH, bUt WhAt aBoUt ClUsTeR cHoRdS iN bOhLeN-PiErCe TuNiNg?!" 🤪 Seriously, though, I can see how this would help. And thanks for acknowledging that the m7b5 can be a dominant chord. I also like the incredibly tense 7b5 (major third, flat fifth, minor seventh) as a substitute dominant chord. I call it the double devil major chord, cuz it has two different tritone intervals, but is not a fully diminished seventh (that's a double devil minor seventh--LOL). Rock on, you benevolent devil! 🤘😈
I expected you to go with: Tonic, Subdominant, and Dominant. That’s how I learned it in my music theory classes back in the day, but that type of classification won’t help one bit with jazz improvisation.
actually i play keyboard. knows only some chords on guitar.your tutorial help me understand more chords on ⌨️/piano . now i can compose or create passing chords more deeper.now i know how to alter chords dominant.most of all application of chords. you are a best teacher.God bless you.
You had said in this video that understanding this categorical system would help with understanding the use of substitutions, and at the end you talk about your course on the modes. Wouldn't it "in theory" (if you pardon the pun) be useful in applying negative harmony as well?? I once saw a Joe Pass video lesson that followed this same system and he just explained what he played over each type of chord. Endlessly fascinating. At any rate, cheers!!
I have a PhD in theoretical physics so I'd say... mmmh... no physics is harder. But the jargon/obfuscation problem is MUCH worse in music theory, so music theory definitely FEELS harder.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Hahaha, I might have been doing some light joke/trolling. :p I did enjoy your 2007 paper on entropy and biodiversity, though. :) Entropy is one of those subjects that clearly is not easily understandable with intuition, especially since a lot of humans don't correlate entropic chaos with the appearance of calm. However, I am still not certain by how much statistical mechanisms interact or interelate with classic thermodynamics in ecological models--if at all. (statistics has been my least favorite class thus far in university.)
@@969typO To understand entropy (and statistics), I recommend the writings of E.T. Jaynes. If you have access to an academic library, they probably have his book ("probability theory, the logic of science"), which is an excellent starting point. Entropy becomes a pretty intuitive concept once you frame it the right way ;-)
This theory is a great mind exercise, but difficult to audibly envision. Perhaps we can explore a midi program/app that would allow us (You) to explore chords more easily? When you write chord names and intervals on the whiteboard they’re just theory. If we could plug-in some examples of these chords and hear it play back using a program it would be much quicker feedback than peeking at chord charts and finding fingerings. …and easier way to bridge the gap between what’s on paper and what the sound is.
Some thoughts as I watched this video: 0:34 Quarter-Diminished 7. Hmmm. I wonder what that sounds like if you use quarter tones? 1:04 "Won't work with atonal 'random' super dissonant-chords" I think I see where this is going (Tonic, Dominant, Pre-Dominant). 3:32 Nope, I guess I was wrong. I *have* seen this division before, somewhere; a jazz book maybe? 4:19 I guess augmented chords are major chords then? I've seen aug-maj7 chords and aug7 used (aug7 more commonly). [answered later] 5:02 Bm7/flat 5 ... or B half diminished 7? [answered at 9:11] 8:08 Your last two lines are in the wrong order. 8:29 When you talked about "accepting" various intervals, my assumption was that you started those intervals at the root, and that the upper note is in the scale, not that you added a note below the root with that interval. But you say that the C augmented chord can be minor chords because you can put the A below the root of C. Is that something that only applies to the minor chord classification? It seems like it would be, because if you're in F major, then the C major triad can be a "minor" chord, because A-C-E-G is a chord in F major (and you also have P5s from both A and C). (My reasoning, off the top of my head, is that Bm7b5 is a dominant chord, because it's a rootless G9, and G9 is a dominant chord.)
Homework from home at home: Fxm(maj7)#11 in C# minor as a pre-dominant. It has a m3, P5 and a M7. In the video you said a m(Maj7) chord is minor, so... minor? My ears say dominant, but my eyes and your video say minor. Final answer: minor.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar , I meant, if you're defining only 3 chords like this, you're basically defining them by functionality. And that is better. Otherwise, we have as many chords as we have names for them.
What I love about theory is that we can perceive the same concepts differently. You left out the possibilities of secondary dominants. If you leave out the major 3rd V of V with is a II 7 instead of a minor7, your ear will think it is just a minor7 of the key. I have played with this concept in your video for some years however mine slightly differs from yours in a few ways one them being that in my theory, the root, the 7th and especially the 3rd are key with what you have mentioned. I still enjoy your videos.
The only one I can think of is a full diminished chord.. 1, b3, b5, bb7.. I suppose there cld be a way to add a different note to the 1-3-5 triad to fit it in one of those 3 categories.. but I don't think it naturally fits in those categories on its own. What do you think?
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar thanks for responding. I didn't think of omitting a note, I only considered adding notes. Excellent deduction. Thank you for your time!!
@Jere Toikka it still stands to reason that it IS a dominant chord. Even dominant chords don't always be simply dominants. 4-5-b6 progression is powerful without the dominant resolving to 1.
@@JereToikka In this case I mean "dominant chord structure" rather than "dominant function", see my video on the many meanings of dominant: ruclips.net/video/d6oLVpoePuA/видео.html . Still, in the progression you present, I'd argue that the C#dim7 has dominant function (dominant of Dm7, in retrogression)
10:09 A C E F# - minor. minor third C perfect fifth E adding a note doesn't take it away If you classify it as a reversal F# A C E ... It would however look lika a Dominant chord, add a D below the F# - but that is less likely, since C D E is a cluster one would like to avoid. So, I stick with minor.
But we don't want to avoid that "cluster". All dominant 9 chords will contain the same "cluster" (which is not really a cluster if you don't put the notes in the same octave) made by the root, the 7th and the 9th. And dominant 9 chords are really popular.
I would classify it as D dominant UNLESS there is a lot of emphasis on the A note, in which case I will classify it as A minor. It can be used both ways.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Ah ... thank you. So, if A C E F# resolves to G it is Dom D, but if it is an intermediate resolution for E7, it's A minor? And if it's both - it's a pun, and therefore both?
(Original comment) The short answer: D7sus4. The voicing is more complicated than a single guitar, though. (Additional) The key for Hard Days Night is G major. D7sus4 being a major chord would require that it "accepts" F# and C#, but C# is not in G major, so it's not a "major" chord. D7sus4 being a "dominant" chord would require that it "accepts" F# and C. In this case, you have a rather dissonant chord (D11 with no 9), but my guess is that it would still go here. For a "minor" chord, we have the P5 (A) already. F is not in the key, so we can't build a m3 from the root of a D; however, if we add a minor 3rd below the root [which at this moment is what I *think* he means by accepting a m3], that's a B, which is in the G major scale. We would then have a B-D-G-A-C chord. This can be re-arranged into A-C-G-B-D, which is an Am11 without the 5 (but it's okay to drop the 5 in this case). I would say that D7sus4 in G major is a "dominant" chord and might be a "minor" chord.
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There are also only three kinds of people in the world: those who know how to count to three and those who don't.
This comment has 3 levels
And you are one of those who can count, and that makes the two of us....😊🙌🏻😁
I understand you make popularized Music Theory 101 content but a claim like this is just irresponsible and obviously wrong. Even if you want to live in this weird, small world where triads are the 'only real chords', a theory that comes to the conclusion that C Major and A Minor are fundamentally different chords but C Major 7 and G Major dominant are fundamentally the same even in the same piece in succession isn't remotely helpful for many styles of music. Even as a way to make improvising easier as you assert, not being able to differentiate between a dominant function and tonic function chord is only going to hinder you in the long run.
I get why you're making this video. But saying people should learn to look past chord extensions more often is quite a softer claim than 'There are only three types of chords'
TL;DR: No, it's the opposite. What video are you watching, yo?
Longer answer:
I never said that triads are the only real chords (it's your assumption). I never said that you can't distinguish between Cmaj7 and G7, indeed I said the exact opposite: C major 7 is a Major chord; G dominant 7 is a Dominant chord.
I did not make any of the statements you claim are "irresponsible and obviously wrong". If you disagree, provide the timestamps at which I say that, so we can discuss it.
You know, I actually spent a rather embarrassing 45 minutes typing a much too long reply to this where I mentioned many things: Chord function, picardy thirds, minor third substitutions, modal mixtures that change the 'accepted' note while still being the 'same chord' in any appreciable sense, etc. and eventually ended up suggesting Hindemith's The Craft of Musical Composition as a more useful (if still flawed) alternative. But I don't think it's worth being embroiled in an internet argument, and I'd rather just be done with it here.
Instead, I want to apologize for my initial reply. I was in a rush before work and typed rather hastily, adding 'dominant chord' to bolster my point. That was obviously a stupid thing to say since dominant is one of your types. The point I was more trying to make is that this theory ignored function, which is an indispensable part of many styles of Western music. Regardless, whatever I meant to say is not what I said and that's churlish of me. You obviously put quite a bit of time and enthusiasm in your content and I could've at least written a more carefully worded critique or not one at all. So I'm sorry for that. I'll try and do better by choosing the latter this time.
I appreciate your answer. Overall, I agree with your comments. This video indeed ignores function (and it ignores several other things too). One of the reasons is that what I talk about here would also work in modal and non-functional settings. When I talk about "type of chords" here I mean strictly in the sense of chord-scale theory i.e. the "internal" structure of the chord (as opposed to the "context" of the chord in the key, that is what function is more about). Discussing all these topics is interesting but fraught with peril due to the multiple meaning of the word "dominant" ruclips.net/video/d6oLVpoePuA/видео.html and the multiplicity of definitions for functions (for instance, last time I checked, there was still an ongoing debate if classical augmented 6th chords are subdominants or dominants of the dominant). Anyway, I appreciate your comment and taking this exchange back to a rational level. This happens so rarely today. THANK YOU.
Your reading that “ but C Major 7 and G Major dominant [7?] are fundamentally the same” is what he’s saying?
Umm…it’s not.
C7 falls into the Dom category.
(The flat b makes the chord want to go somewhere else… like resolve to G major)
G M(ajor) 7?
It falls into the major category.
Let me know if you have q’s. Cheers.
The “Hello Internets!” is such a cool creation and great opener.
There are only two kinds of people.
There are those who divide people into two groups and those who do not.
So we know who you are ;-)
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Exactly!
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete data and
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who can read binary and those who don't.
thank you for getting people to realize the relationships of chords, it’s all the 3rd and 7th, and the 3 behaviors. Kindof like how all color can be made from RGB.
All progressions can be made from Maj, Min, and Dominant behavior.
"yEaH, bUt WhAt aBoUt ClUsTeR cHoRdS iN bOhLeN-PiErCe TuNiNg?!" 🤪
Seriously, though, I can see how this would help.
And thanks for acknowledging that the m7b5 can be a dominant chord. I also like the incredibly tense 7b5 (major third, flat fifth, minor seventh) as a substitute dominant chord. I call it the double devil major chord, cuz it has two different tritone intervals, but is not a fully diminished seventh (that's a double devil minor seventh--LOL).
Rock on, you benevolent devil! 🤘😈
Hahaha, cluster chords in bohlen-pierce tuning ;-)
I expected you to go with: Tonic, Subdominant, and Dominant. That’s how I learned it in my music theory classes back in the day, but that type of classification won’t help one bit with jazz improvisation.
Yes, exactly!
I used your "learn all the fret board notes" vidoo during covid lockdown. It's totally transformed my playing. Thank you!
My pleasure!
Mmm, but. The interesting part is, what ARE my note choices when I classify my chord major. Or minor. Or dominant.
actually i play keyboard. knows only some chords on guitar.your tutorial help me understand more chords on ⌨️/piano . now i can compose or create passing chords more deeper.now i know how to alter chords dominant.most of all application of chords. you are a best teacher.God bless you.
commanding reverb here! the long deep canyon! Yes...master!
The explanation with playing over changes is great. It really works!
maybe ii half dim 7 in minor ii v i goes a little different
You had said in this video that understanding this categorical system would help with understanding the use of substitutions, and at the end you talk about your course on the modes. Wouldn't it "in theory" (if you pardon the pun) be useful in applying negative harmony as well?? I once saw a Joe Pass video lesson that followed this same system and he just explained what he played over each type of chord. Endlessly fascinating. At any rate, cheers!!
Yes, and yes.
Not going to lie, these weren't the three types I thought thought they were going to be, lol, but these make perfect sense! Thanks for clarifying!
I sometimes feel like music theory can be more difficult to learn than theoretical physics. :p
I have a PhD in theoretical physics so I'd say... mmmh... no physics is harder. But the jargon/obfuscation problem is MUCH worse in music theory, so music theory definitely FEELS harder.
And I know you were making a joke, but I could not resist answering :-)
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Hahaha, I might have been doing some light joke/trolling. :p I did enjoy your 2007 paper on entropy and biodiversity, though. :) Entropy is one of those subjects that clearly is not easily understandable with intuition, especially since a lot of humans don't correlate entropic chaos with the appearance of calm. However, I am still not certain by how much statistical mechanisms interact or interelate with classic thermodynamics in ecological models--if at all. (statistics has been my least favorite class thus far in university.)
@@969typO To understand entropy (and statistics), I recommend the writings of E.T. Jaynes. If you have access to an academic library, they probably have his book ("probability theory, the logic of science"), which is an excellent starting point. Entropy becomes a pretty intuitive concept once you frame it the right way ;-)
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar I do have access, I will check his stuff out, thank you so much!
This theory is a great mind exercise, but difficult to audibly envision.
Perhaps we can explore a midi program/app that would allow us (You) to explore chords more easily?
When you write chord names and intervals on the whiteboard they’re just theory.
If we could plug-in some examples of these chords and hear it play back using a program it would be much quicker feedback than peeking at chord charts and finding fingerings.
…and easier way to bridge the gap between what’s on paper and what the sound is.
Super great video 👍👍👍
sir LOVE from India
Excellent! Best of Tube!
I think there is 3 chord: major, minor & sus (sus 4, sus 2 & 7sus4)
Can you please explain what you mean by M, m, and P and the difference between M7 and 7?
Sure! Watch this playlist: ruclips.net/video/WSB3iIkDy7o/видео.html
Har har.
How about minMaj7 chords
They are considered minor
Some thoughts as I watched this video:
0:34 Quarter-Diminished 7. Hmmm. I wonder what that sounds like if you use quarter tones?
1:04 "Won't work with atonal 'random' super dissonant-chords" I think I see where this is going (Tonic, Dominant, Pre-Dominant).
3:32 Nope, I guess I was wrong. I *have* seen this division before, somewhere; a jazz book maybe?
4:19 I guess augmented chords are major chords then? I've seen aug-maj7 chords and aug7 used (aug7 more commonly). [answered later]
5:02 Bm7/flat 5 ... or B half diminished 7? [answered at 9:11]
8:08 Your last two lines are in the wrong order.
8:29 When you talked about "accepting" various intervals, my assumption was that you started those intervals at the root, and that the upper note is in the scale, not that you added a note below the root with that interval. But you say that the C augmented chord can be minor chords because you can put the A below the root of C.
Is that something that only applies to the minor chord classification? It seems like it would be, because if you're in F major, then the C major triad can be a "minor" chord, because A-C-E-G is a chord in F major (and you also have P5s from both A and C).
(My reasoning, off the top of my head, is that Bm7b5 is a dominant chord, because it's a rootless G9, and G9 is a dominant chord.)
Homework from home at home: Fxm(maj7)#11 in C# minor as a pre-dominant. It has a m3, P5 and a M7. In the video you said a m(Maj7) chord is minor, so... minor? My ears say dominant, but my eyes and your video say minor. Final answer: minor.
Functionality is better.
No, just different.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar , I meant, if you're defining only 3 chords like this, you're basically defining them by functionality. And that is better. Otherwise, we have as many chords as we have names for them.
Again, it's just a different classification. If anything, what I show is more widely applicable (i.e. to non-functional music too)
Is it me or there is an annoying reverb on the video?
Yep there is, but it didn't bother me much tbh
5 types :diminished, 6, m6, 7, 7b5
Diminished triads are dominants (B diminished = rootless G7).
What I love about theory is that we can perceive the same concepts differently. You left out the possibilities of secondary dominants. If you leave out the major 3rd V of V with is a II 7 instead of a minor7, your ear will think it is just a minor7 of the key. I have played with this concept in your video for some years however mine slightly differs from yours in a few ways one them being that in my theory, the root, the 7th and especially the 3rd are key with what you have mentioned. I still enjoy your videos.
Well, secondary dominants are dominants. Unless you change them (like you do), then they may become something different.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Never mind my previous message, I thought you were removing the 3rds
Oh I see. Well, in that case you're correct!
The only one I can think of is a full diminished chord..
1, b3, b5, bb7..
I suppose there cld be a way to add a different note to the 1-3-5 triad to fit it in one of those 3 categories.. but I don't think it naturally fits in those categories on its own.
What do you think?
Dominant: Ab dim7 = G7/b9 without the root.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar How about when a dim7 chord doesn't have a dominant function? for example Dm7, C#dim7, Cm7
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar thanks for responding. I didn't think of omitting a note, I only considered adding notes.
Excellent deduction. Thank you for your time!!
@Jere Toikka it still stands to reason that it IS a dominant chord.
Even dominant chords don't always be simply dominants.
4-5-b6 progression is powerful without the dominant resolving to 1.
@@JereToikka In this case I mean "dominant chord structure" rather than "dominant function", see my video on the many meanings of dominant: ruclips.net/video/d6oLVpoePuA/видео.html . Still, in the progression you present, I'd argue that the C#dim7 has dominant function (dominant of Dm7, in retrogression)
10:09 A C E F# - minor.
minor third C
perfect fifth E
adding a note doesn't take it away
If you classify it as a reversal
F# A C E ...
It would however look lika a Dominant chord, add a D below the F# - but that is less likely, since C D E is a cluster one would like to avoid.
So, I stick with minor.
But we don't want to avoid that "cluster". All dominant 9 chords will contain the same "cluster" (which is not really a cluster if you don't put the notes in the same octave) made by the root, the 7th and the 9th. And dominant 9 chords are really popular.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Ah, OK, so you would classify it as Dominant?
I would classify it as D dominant UNLESS there is a lot of emphasis on the A note, in which case I will classify it as A minor. It can be used both ways.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Ah ... thank you.
So, if A C E F# resolves to G it is Dom D, but if it is an intermediate resolution for E7, it's A minor?
And if it's both - it's a pun, and therefore both?
Pretty much yes
What about opening chord from hard day's night
(Original comment) The short answer: D7sus4. The voicing is more complicated than a single guitar, though.
(Additional) The key for Hard Days Night is G major.
D7sus4 being a major chord would require that it "accepts" F# and C#, but C# is not in G major, so it's not a "major" chord.
D7sus4 being a "dominant" chord would require that it "accepts" F# and C. In this case, you have a rather dissonant chord (D11 with no 9), but my guess is that it would still go here.
For a "minor" chord, we have the P5 (A) already. F is not in the key, so we can't build a m3 from the root of a D; however, if we add a minor 3rd below the root [which at this moment is what I *think* he means by accepting a m3], that's a B, which is in the G major scale. We would then have a B-D-G-A-C chord. This can be re-arranged into A-C-G-B-D, which is an Am11 without the 5 (but it's okay to drop the 5 in this case).
I would say that D7sus4 in G major is a "dominant" chord and might be a "minor" chord.