Kills everyone, ignore roleplay moments, ignore puzzles. "I don't think you know how to tell a good story." Well... maybe if you'd interact with the story, we'd know if I could or not.
PCs: "Oh hey, officer, no need for you to worry about a killer on the loose. We killed everyone inside this mansion and within a mile radius of it. We're sure the murderer was one of them."
3 года назад+24
@@rocketraccoon1976 Cop "okay boys pack it up, case solved"
This is a solid story here, I picked out so many mistakes the DM was making, and instead of like in other stories the DM being all like "well idk what went wrong its not my fault" he actually recognized each one of his mistakes and took responsibility for them and remembered them for the future. Its sad this had to be the way he learned better, but I trust it has only made him a wiser DM.
I was thinking the same thing. There were a whole lot of people in the comments pointing out what the DM did wrong and we all clearly know that he was wrong but he recognized that he should've done something different. And I think he deserves some credit for realizing that he didnt do that well, bc there are plenty DM's that would be quick to accuse the players of wrongdoing.
He read her wrong, she was clearly complaining about how little dmg she did and wanted to do more, he tried to do something about that and gave her more utility, ok, to a normal player that would be good, but the girl wanted more dmg, he took a wrong turn two times.
He didn't recognize how he just didn't listen to any of his players at all. Like sure he recognized some of his mistakes but the biggest one was to keep playing with people who didn't enjoy his style of game. He threw a murder mystery campaign at two players who only wanted to kill things. He threw a puzzle section at the same two players who had already expressed distaste for puzzles and such.
Man, the lines where OP stopped writing their campaign, and the one where they're still recovering from that relationship... really broke my heart. I don't think the rookie DM mistakes being fixed would've changed anything.
I made something kinda similar for an encounter in an archfey's palace. The PCs could only move in the same directions their respective pieces would, they would have advantage of they attacked in the same directions, and disadvantage if they attacked outside of them. The enemies where all animated armors with modified weapons who moved and attacked following the rules of chess, and initiative was handled more like chess than dnd. Overall it was pretty fun, I even used an actual chess board as the battlemap.
that was the biggest moment that felt like the DM's fault to me. you don't put literal chess into D&D unless you know that all of the players know how to play chess and enjoy it. the fact that some of the players didn't even know how to play chess just shows that the DM wasn't thinking about what was right for the group at all. it takes awhile to teach someone how to play chess, so obviously anyone who doesn't know how to play would be completely left out.
I feel like the "first mistake" was actually pushing gf to stick with a rogue when she realised early on it wasn't her cup of tea. The second mistake was probably giving her items to make her a super rogue, when all she wanted was to not be a rogue.
@@lighthadoqdawg he initially did push her to stick with the character when she first had doubts about it, had he suggested a different class to her then instead of telling her to stick it out things would have still turned out the same since their playstyles just didn't mesh with each other, but at least the GF would have enjoyed the first game a little more.
@@Daredhnu you say that as if her issues were simply "not doing enough damage" her issue was she wasn't "doing the most damage" no matter what the Dm let her switch to, or accommodated her with as far as her character sheet goes. her refusal to utilize her party in any capacity would diminish her damage output. she couldn't be bothered to even fish for sneak attacks. there's no way she'd outdamage the fighter and barb even with a fighter or barb herself. it was clear she was complaining to be given special treatment and had main character-itus. expecting her boyfriend to humor her. also, I don't get this whole "rogues are weak" thing. that's far from true, rogues are some of the highest burst damage units in the game, the reason why they don't get extra attacks is because they would be ridiculous . if a player can't handle playing a rogue/monk, they definitely won't like playing fighter or barbarian.
@@lighthadoqdawg well i did say the end result would have been the same, exactly because she was a toxic player that suffered from extreme entitlement, even if i didn't specify that last part, but the DM handled it wrong literally every step of the way, trying to force a playstyle on her that she clearly didn't want, he would have been better served just finding other people to play with or just not playing at all, since no game is better than a toxic game.
@@Daredhnu and clearly he was better off dropping not only the games with her and Ben but the relationship as well. Like you said, they simply weren't compatible. And thy clearly were not interested in keeping emotions in check and revelled in their in game toxicity. The dm admitted his faults all the way tho. And I'm more inclined to be linient on a bad dm who realized they made noob mistakes and look to fix them rather than excuse themselves. A majority of people commenting seem to be under the impression op was not admitting his own faults or even imply that he should have conceded to his gf for the sake of the relationship. No gf is better than a bad gf, just like dnd
Me at first: "Man this DM is being way too hard on himself. There's nothing wrong with handing out a few cool magic items at level four-" CritCrab: "...Wave and Blackrazor" Me: "Ah."
Also: GF: "I'm upset I don't do the most damage in the party and I don't like sneaking around in the shadows!" GM: *Gives everyone else Legendary magic weapons and gives GF no weapons, just items that make her sneak around in the shadows better*
@@myname9130 There was a method to it. He was trying to get his GF to understand that Rogues are more equipped for sneaking and evasion. While I would've given her some kind of dagger he had his reasons.
"She was mad that her rogue didn't do the most damage of the party, so I gave her some magic items to even things out" I can see that, yeah. Maybe a Dagger of Venom, or a Rapier or- "I gave her Boots of Spider Climb and a Cloak of Elvenkind." Ah. Well. A rogue who *isn't* a murder-hobbit would definitely love those!
DM doesn't seem bad to me, his introspection leads me to believe he's a potentially good DM. Hell he mentioned that he ignored obvious red flags that a more seasoned person would know to avoid. I think he was just inexperienced as a boyfriend and as a DM, which time can take care of. I wish him luck in future endeavors both romantically and in game.
well he still wanted to railroad the players into things they very very clearly don't like. He could've avoided the whole murder house thing by saying "babe this thing is full of riddles".
@@GamePandaXXL I don't think it went down quite like that. he was trying to introduce them into dnd and tried to get her to do literally anything her class could do that wasn't just stab, it's really hard to get people out of the video game mindset of "big damage mean good game" when dnd is NOT that. he clearly wanted them to experience dnd and not a slow version of a video game. not to mention as much as he knew she'd hate it, when you're a really inexperienced boyfriend and you just want to spend time with your gf or make her happy, and she asks to be part of your game, you say yes. even if that's not the right move.
@@WineRedEchos That is the problem. He wanted her to introduce to how he thought DnD should be played. He wanted to force them out of that murder hobo mindset and that went about as well as you can expect. He should've just let them live their fantasy, teasing the other aspects and if they don't go for it, then let them be murder hobos. This is purely on the DM. You have to listen to the players and adapt to that and not force your way of "correct play" on them. "it's really hard to get people out of the video game mindset of "big damage mean good game" when dnd is NOT that" why not? DnD is whatever you want it to be. If you just want to split open some monster skulls and don't care about any NPC cause e.g. you work in retail and human interaction is what you have all day and you're tired of it then it's your right to just have some good fights. ESPECIALLY when the entire group is fine with it or also hates riddles.
@@GamePandaXXL maybe I'm just not a good player but murderhobos aren't good dnd players. And tbh of NOT all on the dm, if you're a player and your dm is clearly feeding you hints and ideas you could humor them and you might have a good time, maybe it's not fun for the dm to just be in big combat scenarios all the time. Dnd is a group game and when the dm isn't having fun that is just as much of a problem. And half that group did like puzzles, he gave them 2 dungeons, 1 that appealed to the combat people and the other that appealed to the puzzle people, but the murderhobos just ruined it by googling instead of stepping outside their box for more than 5 seconds. The whole point of doing things in a group is to play with people, not to force everyone to play your way. Yeah the dm fucked up here and he's not blameless, but it's also just as much if not more on the players for straight up refusing to play to what he was comfortable creating, especially with the murder mystery.
No it sounds to me like someone who prefers combat over role play, had this often as I play games designed for min maxers because I noticed nobody plays with them or they don't play cos they know they cant help it, 2 things you can do. 1. incentivise role play with combat effeceincy, If they role play give them inspiration or they role play with someone who gives them a powerful buff or a new weapon. 2. Realize this game session isn't for them and let them know its gonna be role play heavy and they likely wont enjoy it.
The whole time I was like "Please have dumped her. You two are clearly not compatible if she gets pissed off about something you put your heart into." So happy...
I think her being mentally unstable and hanging around substance abusers is red flags enough. You'd be surpriced if someone like that DID NOT screw up at the table.
This all is a case of differing expectations. Honestly, I felt like it was pretty clear from the story that Bill and the GF were looking for more of a wargame feel. It's really weird for a player to tell the DM explicitly, "oh man, I want to do more damage, if only I could get some magic items that would make me do more damage," and then receive a Disguise Self cloak, a magical lockpick and Boots of Spider Climbing... meanwhile, the Barbarian gets a Horn that summons him an army and the Fighter gets a Defender and the most broken sword in the game.
Agreed. I really think the root of all his problems in the game, and with his relationship out of it, was that he just didn't listen to her. Actually, it is worse than that, because he repeated what she said a few times. He was listening, he was just dismissing and invalidating her perspective.
@@brandynnutter WHAT. yeah i agree that OP was also at fault in the campaign, but the relationship. the hell you talking about boy, she was pushy and when he didnt agree with her she ignored him or criticized him and his hobby. I know the word simp is overused but damn are you close to it because this is definetly both of their faults. (sorry if i mispelled some things.)
Also sounded like their relationship needed a session 0 before dating. If I had a gf that hated everything I considered fun I'd dump her and say "there's the door". Cause it's not going to be a happy relationship when some interests aren't shared. I know my mom tells me that the best relationships are when your lover is your best friend as well. Anyway glad the DM is having fun with D&D again
Idk what to tell you, I completely forgot about this comment cause of how old it is. While a funny analogy, it's really important to communicate some things before dating. And it's good to be friends for some time before getting closer. It's kinda funny that most of us men prefer women who are virgins or at least really low body counts and most women lately often prefer men to have some sexual experience. At least while looking at the dating scene in the US. Another thing about my analogy that I kinda touched on is that there's a possibility that the DM could've avoided dating a crazy woman, though women are also very good at hiding their crazy until they feel secure in the relationship. So maybe not, anyway I haven't dated since before the first announcement of covid in the US. Entirely my choice cause I haven't been looking, my last 3 relationships were all women who need therapy and antidepressants before trying to date
I like how the two players who weren't super interested were the two who were the better players and more invested in the world and problem solving. I find this fascinating
Alright, I'll throw in my two cents: The DM screwed up, several times. I know that his gf at the time eventually chose to stick with the Rogue and continued making Rogues of her own volition, but when she first said that she wanted a character who was more about "big number," he SHOULD have allowed her to switch, or gave her choices of different classes she might enjoy, LIKE a Fighter or Barbarian. He definitely handed out magical items that were way too powerful way too early (rookie mistake), and definitely gave his gf items that he should have known she wouldn't like. He was at fault for several things, and to his credit, he appears to acknowledge his failings at pretty much every step, which you don't see in this channel very often. That being said, I think the comments are giving the gf too much of a free pass here. I agree that she shouldn't have played a rogue and she made it clear she wasn't sure she liked the class, but she still eventually chose to stick with it and continue making Rogues, all while refusing to utilize the Rogue's skillset. She was constantly berating and insulting the DM any time he tried to do something not related to combat. And most importantly, SHE was not the only one in the group. The DM seemed like he was trying his best to make the game a good mix of everything, and half the table was having a blast with it, while she would immediately duck out the moment something that wasn't about killing shit was thrown on the table. Even if you aren't great at puzzles, Googling the solution to a DM's puzzle after a few minutes just because you can't be bothered to put in effort is insulting to that DM... you know, even without her insulting him while she did it. Yes, some players are more interested in some areas of D&D than others. Some players DO just want to play for the combat and the big numbers. And that's OKAY. But D&D, above all, is a collaborative effort between everyone in the group. Everyone contributes to make the game fun for the whole. And at almost every turn, she refused to entertain that idea. She wanted magical items, but she refused to help the party with the quest to get them. They get a fortress raid split evenly between puzzles and combat, and she immediately folds her arms and complains once they enter the non-combat part. Simply put, she refused to be a team player unless it was about fighting, and that's not a good player. In the end, it's a story where no one comes out of it looking good. The DM and GF both had wildly different ideas about what they wanted this game to be, and neither would give an inch. I'm glad the DM seems to have taken a lot from this event, and I hope he's improved, because I could tell he has a lot of potential. Despite being a bit stuck in his own mentality and being oblivious to what his gf REALLY wanted, he showed a lot of passion and creativity, he clearly wanted to make a good game for everyone. Not a terrible DM, just very misguided in the beginning.
Reading through the comments I'm beginning to suspect some people don't make it to the end of the video. 1) GF didn't want to switch by session 3 or 4 but still wanted bigger damage. 2) DM admits he handled things wrong constantly. 3) Both murderhobos started going full CN/CE near the end ruining it for their other two party members. In other regards a new DM is not going to know how to handle any of these group dynamics. Nor are the going to want to kick the two other founding members out even if it is clear they are looking for something else. Let's not forget the murder mystery game he is berated for (while the group starts making the murders to remove the mystery) or the tank character he makes that GF is like, "Oh he's down? Hope he dies." Sorry, but I've played in enough MMOs to spot the problem DPS player that pulls groups and breaks crowd control. There is no fixing it and it is 100% a toxic and selfish mentality. These are the same types in MOBAs who complain they can't nuke a Tank in two hits. The same types in PvP who demand nerfbats to anything that isn't their favorite class. You cannot fix, nor appease, the gloryhound and they will always move the goal post until they are the ones running the game/campaign, which is something the two other players were noticing was happening with the murderhobos. So, I have sympathy for the DM and what hindsight has taught him - I have no sympathy for definitely CE characters with at best "CN" players that ruin games for others.
I give my players an 'artifact' item at level 1. At level one though. It does nothing special. One player I gave a sword that lit up like a torch and did fire damage instead of slashing. When he turned level 3 I gave the sword the ability to cast a fire divine favor. Depending on how the player likes the item or how they play I tweak it. Every player I've had have loved their 'signature item'.
@@benjaminjane93 Gonna steal the idea. I like giving magic items early on but always end up with something more powerful than I intended. An artifact that levels with the player would be perfect! Bonus: They won't know that it is an artifact. This can add a nice RP element to it
Here's two I created. One for an early level campaign and one for a campaign that started at higher level. *Sword of Uther* Wielding this sword increases your Charisma ability score by 1. (Upgrades) *Honor* While this sword is held by someone who has sworn the Oath of the Lightbringer at Uther's tomb it deals an additional 1d6 + Honor Ability Score Modifier Radiant Damage to the enemies of the Light. (Demons, Devils, and Undead) *Duty* The swords allows the wielder to use their reaction to allow a creature the wielder can see within 30 feet to re-roll a failed saving throw. *Leadership* Whenever you enter combat, starting on your turn, you and any willing creature you wish within 30 feet of you are under the effect of the Heroism spell for one minute. The spell ends if the wielder can't maintain concentration. ___ *Mourn* If you are a Paladin wielding this axe you gain the Conquering Presence Channel Divinity feature. If your oath is already that of the Oath of Conquest, you instead gain a +1 bonus to your save DC when using Conquering Presence. (Upgrades) *No Mercy* For each creature you slay wielding Mourn. Your Strength Ability Score increases by one and your Constituion Score decreases by one until your next short or long rest. Your Strength Score can only be increased to a maximum of 25 using this feature. *No Hope* Whenever you use the divine smite feature, divine strike, or a smite spell, when striking an enemy target, you can choose to inflict necrotic damage instead of the original damage type. Additionally, whenever you smite a target using a spell slot above 2nd level. Your target must succeed on wisdom save against your spell save DC or be frightened of you. *No Escape* Whenever you strike an enemy with this enemy who is under the Frightened condition. You may deal an additional 2d8 Cold Damage as part of the weapons damage roll. Using this feature ends the Frightened condition on the enemy target.
Most of my groups D&D campaigns have us start at level 3 or 4. That way we can "get into the fun" faster while still being somewhat low level. In 3.5 (which is all I play. 3.5/3.0) there is a chart of the average gold a character would have at a given level. You would be surprised how many and what kinds of magic items you can buy with the gold for level 4. I most of the time play a cleric. Not only can I get pretty good healing items(magic bandages healing ointments), but also armor (a good +1 mithril scalemail or one with a protection) and weapons (a good +1 or holy mace) and over all utilitarian items (Like endless waterskin and magic clocks).
I've had a DM who did the opposite: level 8 and the whole party was in rag and sticks, _again_ after the DM railroaded the story into all of us getting captured and imprisoned once more. Whenever we'd loot a leather armor, we knew it would only last a session or two until we'd be dipped in acid that melts off our clothing. And whenever we received "magic items" it was stuff like a homebrew spell to go through walls that he would always deny us to use, or a sex change potion. Oh, and he once inserted a party member's OC into the campaign as an NPC, only to have her beheaded in front of the player character on the very same session to "teach the player a lesson about telling a DM what to do". It's not even the worst DM I've had, he's like the 3rd or 4th worst. Thankfully the universe gave me a way out and I died from three nat 1s in a row. Since then, I really don't mind when someone gets early magic items. Have fun.
This story reminds me of why a session zero is so important, in my experience the DMs I played with ignored this part of D&D. The one thing my last DM did not learn was that players will go off script, and may not be interested in doing the encounter that they setup.
"Hey you made part of a campaign WHY DIDNT YOU TELL ME!!! lets play it!" *Hates the very premise of the campaign itself, and crushes partner's dreams again* Did she not even ask what the campaign was about? These people need combat heavy games fed to them, the writing just isnt being consumed by its target audience. If she is going to act like that and be so damn picky over a game, then she has no right to be angry when you dont tell her about the games you write...
Given the way OP described the events and his past inability to notice he was pushing a playstyle she didn't want, I suspect he didn't tell her what the game was going to be about. This was a comedy of errors, coupled with toxic mindsets from GF and Bill.
@@Draeckon GF chose multiple times to stay a rogue, even choosing rogue in subsequent campaigns. There is no class GF could've picked and actually been happy. If she had dealt the most damage, she would complain about her sneak. If she had unstoppable magic, she'd complain about her AC, etc.
Props to the DM for putting up with those two. I would've called it quits long ago or told them to actually read up on the character and classes they choose so they will like to play them.
Should have just let her remake her character she wanted a big damage class and wasn't suited for rogue why push it on her. But her attitude was pretty shit also lol.
13:40 She picked Rogue herself he did not push it on her and she refused to switch afterwards. Rogues are very strong doing single target damage too with how easy it is to get your Sneak Attack bonus. He tried to help her out on many occasions while he admits to doing some mistakes himself but otherwise did a good job giving her items that benefited her class. Her attitude made it that much more difficult for the DM to do his job as the DM trying to balance things and make things fun and interesting but she dismissed absolutely everything every time without care.
@@erickchristensen746 She was a new player. Her desire was clearly to do great damage in combat. She made a newbie mistake, a decent DM would've let her pick a new class when they were still level 1.
@@mormacil the thing is that she was asking to be killed off during sessions 1 & 2 but decided to stick with the rogue starting in session 3, and being a first time DM he was hesitant about killing someone off that soon, he did mention that he set things up so that if she still wanted to change class in session 3 she could. He wasn't the best, but he'd still definitely fall in the decent category of DMs. Certainly not amazing or godly, but also not trash like some of the DMs we hear about.
Fun fact about Cancer (the constellation of the Crab): during the Lernaean Hydra Labour, after Heracles and his nephew figured out how to finally kill the beast, Hera sent an army of crabs (or a giant single crab, stories conflict) after the pair to make them fail the labour. They/it were/was a nasty opponent(s) and worked well with the Hydra somehow, but in the end Heracles crushed them/it underfoot before finishing the serpent. As thanks for their valiant efforts, Hera brought the remains into the sky and formed the Cancer constellation (but because they failed their tasks of killing Heracles, they were never as bright as many of the other Zodiac constellation). Just thought you might like this. It makes crabs like you even more badass than you'd think at first glance.
I'm hearing a lot of parts where the DM learns his players hate puzzles and mysteries, and the DM just keeps throwing puzzles and mysteries at them and laments how much they hated it. Sometimes you have to choose between challenging your players and letting your players have fun. Don't make your players literally play chess unless you know they enjoy those kinds of games.
and the player wanted a powerful magical item to do more damage and he gave her lockpick shit. She clearly wanted to just be able to do more damage. Sounds like the DM was trying to force a playstyle on her that she din't want to play. If she wants to stab harder, just fuckin give her something to stab harder with. Players that want to do more damage are the easiest players in the universe to please. You can also do fun shit like "if you successfully sneak up on an enemy, your sneak attack deals 3d6 extra force damage", to encourage them to use roguey shit while also catering to their desire to murder faster
@@Lobsterwithinternet YEP! She should have been a paladin or battlemaster with a greatsword and felt like a BAMF. she wanted to Power Fantasy and he wanted her to play splinter cell
Actually in one of my old groups we had to google the DMs riddle because the sludge brain “paraphrased” it, but left out information and forgot the details. So we looked up what riddles could be similar and he kept saying “I don’t remember, but that wasn’t it.” So we spent so much time guessing, rolling for clues and what not (at no point did he ever just back down and change it up or anything. He made us try to figure out this UNSOLVABLE PUZZLE and GLOATED about how simple the answer was.) eventually we decided to just shout out the answers from google. And eventually we got it...
@@thekenyonsquad5672 yeah, the group basically hit him with an NWO like split. He brought us all together but we realized that we’d long since stopped enjoying his game since it was basically just an ego stroke for he and his wife; we also realized that we really liked each other and still wanted to play together with another group member as DM. So we just aired our grievances to the DM as not only players, but Friends. He made empty promises that didn’t pan out so we went splitskies and started having a new gathering at another house without the DM, his wife and the rest of their little clique of “we did extra sessions without you guys is why *blank* has that (anything).”
That last bit rant at the end of the video... OMG I feel that! Who looks up the answers to a riddle on their phone in front of the GM like that?! That's like reading a module of an entire campaign you're in and just "knowing" the outcome. That is some next lvl tier godmodding that deserves 1000 radiant damage right there!
Gm: Put's a puzzle infront of player Player: doesn't like it Gm: makes a whole dungeon of pzzles later Player: doesn't like it again Gm: surprised Pikachu face
There were 4 players. 2 of them liked puzzles. He wasn’t surprised that the other two didn’t like the puzzles, but that they were so rude and selfish as to google the answers while the other two players were actively engaged with it, just because they themselves didn’t like it.
@@davidflore2543 sure, so gate two of your players out of sessions. That sounds majestic too. Im not saying they were in the right with their attitude, but it does feel like the dm was just trying to shoehorn them into the game style he enjoyed
3 года назад+10
@@davidflore2543 Ummm the 2 who liked it were combat guys in a combat keep, the ones who hated puzzles got the puzzle keep? If the puzzle guys love em so much why did the DM not put them in the puzzle keep? He was railroading two players who clearly would of been better off as different classes, but I feel he had a certain "Idea" of what a party should be a pressured the GF and Bill to play the roles they picked.
@ they were all clearing the two keeps together, the barbarian would receive the combat keep after it was cleared and the wizard would get the trapped keep once it was cleared, but all 4 were working together on each keep.
"I wanna do damage!" "No, your character is low level and bad at that" "I want to change characters because I'm not good at damage! "Here's some magic items that don't help you do damage. Also here's a bunch of super dangerous, high-damage weapons for your friends." I don't understand why my gf isn't having fun and doesn't want to engage with my world, guys!
Sorry but what? She said early on what she wanted, and even said she wanted to swap characters when she realized the class wasn't fitting her playstyle, and the DM shot her down. The DM should have listened to what the player wanted to mitigate this. I'm not saying she wasn't in the wrong as well but the DM literally ignored the player every time she GAVE him the information he needed -- he was more focused on how HE thought rogues should be played, instead of adapting to the player.
Yes listen to your player. Who has already exhibited whiney little girl behavior. And would have just gotten worse and worse anyway. Which is what happened. They shouldn’t have been playing together at all. If all you care about is doing the most damage and never ever ever ever ever making a single other roll than to attack you should excuse yourself from the game when you realize the dm uses puzzles or social encounters at all. And he should have kicked them the second they started ignoring everything that wasn’t combat. They clearly drug the rest of the group down from day one.
Yeah, especially because the time she first asked to switch was REALLY early on and wouldn’t hurt the campaign progression and (if she chose Fighter or something) might’ve been more beginner friendly as well. I don’t understand the point of DM shooting her down like that and being surprised she wasn’t happy.
@@Ifrit8054 oooooor just let them have the fights they want to have. There is no right or wrong way to play dnd. She wasnt to do big damage, she wanted to be top tier dps. Some people are into that. And beginners tend to be more attracted to combat heavy types of games before they ease out into the roleplaying.
Honestly from the sounds of it op has more than his share of blame. Gf repeatedly voiced disatisfaction with her character and showed no interest in the sneak aspects of a rogue. He should have just let her reroll a barbarian and move on not double down on giving her non combat rogue abilities. But if i was the gm i would have just ran solo for the other friends because the gf and bill are terrible.
I mean he literally said at the end, she wanted to stay a rogue by the 3rd session and continued choosing rogues in the future, despite it clearly not being what she wanted out of a character, so you can't really blame the GM except for maybe not calling her out on it.
yep and DM clearly doesn't even understand rogue and completely ignores the purpose of rogue assassin's high DMG potential and thinks that a tank class would deal more lmaoo
The gf willingly stays a rogue. This stopped being on him the moment she decided to be stupid and staying with something she knows she doesnt like instead of trying something else. You dont even need to be a rouge if the sneaking and expertise are what you're after, it baffles me why she would stay this class and never multiclass when she knows its not what she wants.
Of course. They're supposed to solve a murder mystery, so their solution is to try murdering more people. These stories make me really glad that everyone I play with is pretty chill.
bill and gf sound bad, disliking puzzles and sh*t shouldn't make them whine about the writing, plus it sounds like gf is the "look at how cool i am" type
Neither party looked good here. The GF (and Bill) both stated very early that they wanted to do big damage... And the DM just ignored them, including not giving them the kind of magic items they wanted, and instead giving them to the other players. The GF asked if she could changed classes so she could do more damage, but he said no. It's understandable to be upset about that, but GF and Bill clearly took their frustration waaaay too far. It sounds like OP and GF were just not a good fit for each other too, which just added further fuel to the fire. OP seems like he was convinced he could bring GF around to how he thought she should be playing, despite her repeatedly protesting otherwise. GF and Bill acted like passive (and not-so-passive) aggressive tools, but the OP did not do himself any favors by repeatedly ignoring their feedback about the kind of gameplay they wanted to have. Like with the two towers, the better way to do it would have been to mix the two styles, with a puzzle, combat, puzzle, combat, etc, with the puzzles not being too complex so that the flow can keep moving. I'm stunned the group didn't fall apart faster with how the two groups were talking past each other.
@@Draeckon Did you watch the whole video? At the end, DM explains that GF chose to stay a rogue and continued playing rogues in subsequent campaigns. GF sounds like an impossible-to-please person
For the OP: I see a lot of self defeating talk man, I think you did fine for a first session dm. It really is a learning experience and I hope you give yourself room to grow and look forward to never stop learning
Honestly, though it's a bit shity for players to look up the solution to a riddle or puzzle the DM puts forth, I understand where that stems from and get it. I think there is a realistic difference between what a character would know, and a player. I played Wizards that are more intelligent than I will ever be, clerics more wise than I'll ever be, and Sorcerers more charismatic than I will ever be. So when a GM put a puzzle in front have a party and expect them as players to solve it, that doesn't always translate well. Though in those cases, it is best to after a Time allow players to make knowledge rolls or Stat rolls to allow their characters to get directions or instructions based on how realistically the character would know how to solve the puzzle or riddle or what have you
It sounded like GF and Bill just full-stop checked out and refused to even try making knowledge or INT rolls, though. They just saw that the other two guys wanted to do it, and left them to it, while in the first puzzle probably actively making it *harder* by killing off their chess pieces super-fast in order to ignore everything and screw around on their phones. Removing pieces from a chess-board is a surefire way to make it harder for that side to win, after all. Given that Bill was playing a Wizard, he probably *could have* made knowledge checks, but it seems like he saw Marine and Gajiro going at the puzzle with their OOC understanding of how it worked, and didn't even bother. The people playing the Wizard who should've had the INT and/or Arcana skill to help, and the Rogue who should've likewise had skills that could've gone toward helping, both seemed to actively refuse to participate.
@@Mokiefraggle oh I agree with your general assessment of this specific circumstance. My comments were more in response to Simply the last couple lines of the video. That being it's shity to look up answers to puzzles. Because I have seen too many GM's try and force puzzles into a game that the players have to solve without understanding that there is some separation in skill sets between a player and their character. I think the worst example I can remember is when someone I knew tried putting linguistic puzzles in front of their players using a language they were trying to invent. With no rolls or anything that would allow their characters Superior knowledge has to help out. And hell, in that situation, there was no way they could look up the answer anyways.
i know right? at a gaming con, for some reason, a group of 3 dudes were trying to pick me up. yes i was overweight at the time. no they weren't that hideous. it just felt weird even if i wasn't seeing anyone. i was like no i gotta go.
@@asarishepard8171 A convention is the most likely place nerds are going to meet, so I'm not surprised a few would try to ask someone out on the basis of a shared interest in something. It's not much different than people who met at a dance club or some other social gathering. That said, "nerd culture" tends to cultivate an awkwardness in social interactions that makes doing this seem weird to the people involved. To us social outcasts, we're at this thing about nerd stuff because we like the nerd stuff not because we're looking for a date, so someone turning it into an opportunity to find a date will feel odd when it shouldn't.
I remember the first time I tried going to an anime convention, I thought it would be a good way to make some friends. Instead I got a healthy reminder of my place in the form of an anxiety attack.
All the people blaming the OP for all the problems in this story clearly missed how bratty and disrespectful GF and Bill were acting throughout the whole thing. Remember that OP was new to DMing at the time, and we have the luxury of viewing this from an outside perspective.
I'll be honest, I felt uncomfortable reading this. The GF sounds toxic and borderline abusive, beyond the DM-player expectations mismatch they obviously had here.
The mistake was not asking new players what kind of character that want to play. If they say I want fuck shit up and kill things then you could say ok a rogue is not that
I keep seeing people say this, and I have to wonder if they actually played 5e. sure, they aren't as explosive as 4.5, but rogues are definitely high damage martial characters, they are very VERY good at picking a target and making sure it dies. even with all their skill monkey and role-play tools. and don't need much magic items to do it.
@@lighthadoqdawg I am admittedly in my only second game and have only played a first, a Tiefling Divine Soul Sorcerer and second an Orc Totem Warrior, who two hands a spear
@@lighthadoqdawg they can be if you build them and play them right at mid to higher levels, not so much starting off... It's very clear that the player wanted to go in and smash things, that's not a rogue. I'm not talking just damage. That's a fighter or barbarian because of the higher AC. She was probably constantly getting fucked because of the lower AC
Jeez, not even half way in and I'm already feeling really bad for the OP. Honestly sounds like a really good dm, trying to think outside the box and make interesting and unique encounters, and gets completely ignored because its not mindless combat.
Players want combat, DM doesn't understand why they're getting frustrated when he only gives them non combat encounters. Like the whole time they're saying "we don't want puzzles, we want to be combat oriented rogue and wiz, and he just totally doesn't listen. Like if he throws more puzzles at them they'll start liking them. This DM is the problem.
@@darthfenrir7773 so give him the puzzles, instead of combat and give the other guys combat instead of puzzles, this is not hard. If they want to play a rogue and wizard and not be sneaky and smart, who gives a shit? The DM was constantly railroading them into a specific style of gameplay just because that's their class type.
@@mitchwilliamson5552 They did, he did puzzles but he also did combat. Gf complained she didn't like combat because she wasn't doing enough damage. Dm said to try it out for another session and gave her items she could use to score higher damage points but she ended up not using it acting like it was a pokemon battle where you get into a battle and just keep attacking until one dies. She even repicked rouge. Dm had 4 players, 2 murder hobos and 2 puzzle people. Him shifting between the two shouldn't have the gf and bill begin throwing a fit like a child who has to share someone else's toy.
Tbh this whole story is "the dm is not very good at listening" lol Like I'm not saying GF was a good person, I don't know her, but she repeatedly - REPEATEDLY - made it clear she was unhappy with the game and specifically why. And OP REPEATEDLY just poo'd on her issues and told her "it's fine" She didn't want to not be hit and sneak well, or have good out of combat abilities. She clearly wanted to hit things hard. OP kept insisting she play a playstyle she didn't want, because for whatever reason he insisted she should be a rogue.
also after several riddles where GF was B-ching about how she hates those, he took her into his new game that was obviously one big riddle - it started with murder mystery ffs :D was he even able to thing anything else than riddles/puzzles into dnd?
3 года назад+5
@@histkontext Got a feeling that was his thing and he kept on pushing it on others, the classic "I love this so everyone else should too!" attitude.
@@histkontext I don’t think it’s fair to say that he took her into the second campaign when she asked to play it and he said he wasn’t done. Granted he could have told her that it was a murder mystery but it wasn’t like he forced it onto her
@@darthfenrir7773 I'm not forgetting it lol I never said she was a good person or smart in this situation lol. I'm just a forever DM and like a customer service person with their customers, I view all of them as idiots until proven otherwise. Maybe you disagree but it's the DMs job to tailor the game if they want it to be fun lol. He probably wouldn't have been able to make her happy since she seemed pretty dumb and stubborn but actively piling puzzles and BS on top of her when she said she just wants to stab good was objectively the wrong move. That's what I'm saying.
I love how half of the group was interested in the puzzles and y'all really just ignore that and say he made more puzzles for no reason as if catering only to murderhobos would have been better. Also, wasn't he running a module? You can have fun with that, obviously, but like,, it's not all his shit.
Exactly, like, people are in here complaining that OP wasn't listening to GF (which he wasn't, in some cases) but their forgetting that half the other players were *enjoying* the puzzles.
But the tower was specifically a reward for the guy who DOESNT like puzzles, so giving him the puzzle dungeon that he doesn't like is more than a little backhanded. And the tower wasn't part of the module, the DM made that himself.
“Having to read that sentence out loud made me want to rip my eyelashes out with a roll of duct tape” I laughed at this harder than I have at anything else in quiet some time, just the mental image alone is hilarious.
I'm not on their side, but GF and BIll really got shafted by those level 4 magic items. Wave, a +3 sentient magic weapon that is in fact 4 other magic weapons rolled into one and a Horn that can summon 5d4+5 extra combatants every 7 days Blackrazor, a +3 sentient weapon that literally destroys the souls of the things it kills, you can't be charmed or frightened. You have a life-sensing Aura around you and the sword can cast haste once a day....and they also got defender for shits and giggles. GF gets a hat of disguise, but its worse because it's limited to 8 castings per day instead of limitless. Slippers of spider climbing and an unbreakable lockpick Bill gets a necklace of fireball a nonrenewable resource magic item and a rod of lordly might which is a super cool melee weapon when you're not a wizard with the HP of paper.
Honestly and then there is the fact of the op proceeding to throw the two players he KNOWS don't enjoy puzzles into the puzzle tower while the kill stuff tower they would have enjoyed more has the two players who actually enjoy the puzzles.
I feel bad for him. The hardest thing to do when you have close friends and significant others playing your game is to tell them no. You mistakenly wanna make it fun for them, but you always end up stressing yourself till it's no longer fun for you. Fortunately my two current groups are very. "your the God of this world, if you say no, I'll rework shit to fit your design." it makes playing fun, and it makes DMing easy. I tell them I'm running a murder mystery with little to no combat. I see nothing but skill cows and divination magic.
I'm halfway through, and the gf got absolutely shafter when it comes to magic items. This guy gave her some uncommon items while everyone else was getting legendary or artifacts. I'm sure she's gonna be toxic, but I would be fuming too
There comes a point when someone blowing up your campaign isn't them being a problem player, it's the last refuge of a frustrated player trying to get a point across. Sounds like she hit that point.
Absolutely disagree, the level of rarity means dick all. The other party members only got things that are useful in combat. The rogue got a huge buff to pretty much everything she can do in and out of combat. Running up walls and disguising herself as other baddies greatly boosts her ability to autocrit with surprise attacks. Out of combat, no normal lock can ever hold her back AND she can scale anything by walking up it, AND she can impersonate anyone she sees. Any rogue with a hint of creativity would love this kit.
@@frigginresulrum when your player specifically asks for magic items because they want to do more damage, giving them items that do nothing to improve the damage numbers does not actually help them, if you then add insult to injury by giving other people absolutely broken magic weapons that will spike their damage even more, well any player would get pissed off at that, that particular part was not the GF fault, that was entirely on the GM for ignoring what his player wanted to be doing. that's not to say that the GF did nothing wrong, by all means she probably should have played something else, like a paladin or something, but for this particular instance she is not to blame.
@@Daredhnu I think even if she played another class things wouldn't change much. She didn't expect to deal more damage she wanted to deal the MOST damage, even with a more combative class there's a chance she would still be annoyed for not being the strongest character in the group
3:20 Can we take a moment to talk about people wishing to switch character that can't figure any way other than KILLING THEM?! I had a *pretty traumatic* session where a player left the table by having their character walk into the night and swim in waters full of sea-demon, trying to board a demon/plague ridden ship. This was actually a suicide. Also, they *didn't warn anybody*, so the other players were pretty upset that they thought it was going to end well...
3 года назад+3
She asked, he denied her, can't blame her for not wanting to be forced into a character just so DM could have more than one person doing his favorite things in the world, Puzzles and riddles.
@ Well, OP stated these were two occurrences of puzzle-based sessions while the overall campaign was predominantly battle-based (at least 5 sessions between each sub-stories, he said). Also (once again, from what OP said at 14:20) she was indecisive about changing her character and dropped the idea at the third session. Don't know about you, but I can't really get the gist of my class' evolution at lvl1. Yes there were issues, but we also have to remember that this is a condensed story, that stuffs happens, both in-game, at the table and outside of it between the events happening. It seems outrageous and terrible from nearly everybody because we're not told the many times where things went more normally.
DM in a nutshell: Girlfriend says "I want chocolate ice cream." DM says "Cool, cool, but hey what you really want to eat is vanilla ice cream. That stuff is amazing so I'm just going to keep throwing vanilla ice cream at you until you enjoy it as much as me." It's no wonder they split up.
I do agree the DM could've done it better but in the end, she did choose rouge a second time and I don't believe the Girlfriend tried the vanilla Ice cream,
Its more like she says she wants chocolate, picks up vanilla, complains that is isnt chocolate and blames the others for it, and then when the option to get the ice cream she really wanted arises she says *no I wont take it*. The dm couldve listened better but she chose to ignore her class options that allow her to deal the damage she wanted and then when she had the opportunity to switch session 3 she decided against it and then proceeded to play rogue for the rest of her tabletop career. How is this DM's fault? He didnt even pick the class for her. she looked through every class knowing she wanted to do big number and *chose* rogue. She's an entitled idiot
reality: Bf worked all day handmaking vanilla ice cream, trying out his cooking skills as cooking is his favourite past time. Invites gf to eat his ice cream. Gf: eww wtf? its not chocolate?
This comment is going to be too long. (tldr: no two dms are the same, and someplayers put too much expectation on the dm to cater to them) dm,s and players are all learning all the time. not all dms run games the same way, there are blatent mistakes from the dm, but there are also lots of players who start a game thats closer to a zelda like puzzley game but what they want is a diabloesque crawl. dont get mad at the consol or the game either play and learn or politly be like sorry not the game for me. as a DM i do ask what my players want out of a game but sometims what they want is impracticle. basically what im saying is that a DM is to be seen as a video game console and the games unless home brewd arnt even made by them so theyre like cartridges. you cant blame the console for your problem with the cartridge. pluss players really seem to think that all dnd is suposed to be the same as all dnd. DMs all run things differently. im not mat mercer i dont want to be mat mercer, im also not dan harmon i dont want to be dan harmon. i had a player brand new to the game when i first started dming. she decided after that night to start watching critical role, from then on she was this "expert on all things dnd" would say things like "thats not how mat would have run that" or my favorite "when i kill a monster you have to say how do you do this" no i can say discribe the kill, i can say how does he die, i can say adn thats that for that, i can even describe the kill myself in cases of certain spells and if the creature is even in view like if somebody fired a spell wildly into the dark. the charachter doesnt even know what theyre killing how would they know how its dying what limbs it has if it has any. iom sure nobodys going to read this lol.
I'm so sad the guy stopped writing his murder mystery campaign. That sounded cool! It's a shame how crappy people can kill a passion for something in other people.
This is undoubtably the fault of the DM. His players wanted a different game than what he was creating and he knew that. He still continued on with it because he wanted to and now he is blaming the players for not enjoying what they already made clear they didnt enjoy (multiple times). If it was his "passion" he should find people who actualy like this way of playing and not force it on people who obviously dont. It doesnt make you a crappy person to like playing dnd in one way or another. It does make you one if you blame people for not playing Dnd the way you want it to be played.
I mean, to be fair most of this post is pretty much exclusively on him. Who the hell randomly springs *chess* on their friends during a game of D&D? Especially ones that explicitly made it clear they wanted a combat heavy power fantasy? And why would you invite those players to a campaign that you know is primarily going to be puzzle-solving or roleplaying?
@@MiniRockSafariMann that one isnt on him tho. his girlfriend found out he was writing that campaign and told him to play it with her.
3 года назад
@@the_homun_system But did he explain it wasn't combat heavy? I feel Communication broke down here or was never there to begin with between them, probably a reason for their breakup too. He clearly wanted something different to her and after he shot her down early on she just went along for the ride while he refused to hear what her and Bill (Half of the players) kept telling him.
@@MiniRockSafariMann Dm had 2 murder hobos and 2 puzzle players. The sessions had enough combat for gf to complain so much about her damage, but when the other 2 players go their share of the session bill and gf throw fits. Gf wanted more damage. Dm offered items which if you think or plan for 2 seconds, you can find ways to use to increase damage. Gf didn't fit rouge type, but kept playing it and even picked it again. Sounds more like gf and bill only wanted what they wanted or else they threw a fit
the more i hear about dnd, the good and the bad stuff, the more curious i get about what it would be like to play. doubt i'd ever find a place for that but i can always dream and listen to other's stories, lol. it's a lot of fun :p thanks for these videos, joy to listen in the background while drawing. the way you read the stories is so nice, not too fast nor too slow and keeps me entertained for a long time :)
I had a Player in my first group, who looked up the answer for a riddle from the DM. The DM caught on and punished him with enough damage to put made him unconscious despite a sucessfull saving throw. Than he changed the riddle and warned us, out of character, that the next cheater would get killed.
Some people like D&D for the combat, others for the potential storytelling. I don't think people that doesn't engage with the story are qualified to say OP doesn't know who’s to write a good story!
I literally built my character 90% for combat, yet some of my favorite moments in our campaign are out of combat. Sure, we have a number of memorable combat moments too, but the roleplaying is definitely the highlight of DnD for me. I want to hit hard when I need to, but it's fun to be the bumbling sorcerer who is just trying to do the right thing. And since most of my build is for combat, there usually isn't much I have to look at my sheet for when I'm roleplaying, which for me makes that part of the game more smooth and enjoyable, and it makes combat quite explosive when we need to do lots of damage.
@@kuroshinigami9143 not at level 1, but fighters, barbarians and rogues quickly start scaling over magic users in damage until they get fireball etc. especially with synergistic feats. a ranged fighter at 5th level can average 92 damage with a longbow in the first round of combat if all their attacks hit.
I know I play a bow rogue and outside of the paladin critting and throwing a smite on it, my character does the most damage with a single hit. Catch is, I only GET one hit a turn.
That's not something we can really blame on the GF here, her toxicity and passive-aggressive behavior aside. They were all new to 5E from how the story was told, so clearly GF didn't grasp how the class really worked - nor did the DM, for that matter, if he firmly believed she _had_ to be sneaky, sneaky to get her Sneak Attack... Which in 5E is more like Advantage Attack, since you just need to have Advantage to benefit from it, not necessarily be stealthing. She even asked if she could change classes to something that did do more damage and the DM told her no. Yeah she went way too far with her anger, but the DM is not blameless here.
@@Draeckon He asked her to give the class a chance when she wanted to kill the character off after the first session, from what he said he would have let her change if she had asked again but she didn't and even chose to play Rogue again in a different campaign. Did the GM make misstakes? Lots of them, and bad ones too but as far as I can see from the story he mostly did them honestly trying to give his players a good time.
@@Rohrae yeah, seems most people didn't make it to the end. Plus, from what I understand, she was playing a rogue and did basically everything to avoid getting sneak attacks, then complained about her damage. Which makes you wonder what the hell she was thinking picking it...
@@theapexsurvivor9538 No kidding. It's not even that hard to get Sneak Attack, and yet she not only did everything to avoid it, she also got mad when he gave her gear that would make it *easier* to get it!
@@Rohrae I don't get this whole "she played rogue in a different campaign so obviously that's not the problem" thought process. Like do you play the same class.jn every single campaign you play? Maybe in THAT campaign rogue was the type of character she wanted. But from her actionS and reactions I would say rogue is not what she wanted to play in THIS campaign.
Yeah this sounds like mainly the DM's fault, It is never a good idea to make the players feel like nothing they do matters cause the DM will just magically make them survive or win. Giving them more puzzles and scenarios that the players have expressed their dislike for .... Not saying it's all his fault, but DM really didn't help himself out at all. Also Hoard of the Dragon Queen... really? there's your big problem right there. That is one of the worst official campaigns there is.
I also think it's a matter of group, clearly the DM is somebody who likes puzzles, and mysteries, and didn't want to run a game that was all combat, while the girlfriend only seemed to care about combat. Yes the DM didn't listen, but at the same time he didn't want to do an all combat game, the best thing would be find another group.
@@danielmbg It wasn't that they just wanted combat, they wanted combat that THEY specifically were just going to be OP at and can just face-smash with. They started with complaining about how the rogue, the rouge, one of the highest DPS characters if played marginally well, wasn't doing enough damage to her liking. Couple that with the boots of spider climb, you're laughin. And the wizard complaining about damage when they are literally playing a high burst damage class. They didn't give the game a chance before complaining constantly, and if they just want to be powerful from the very start, play a videogame and modify values or use strong mods.
@@danielmbg From the sound of it, there was a metric ton of combat (OP mentioned that most of these scenarios were separated by 5+ sessions of basically pure combat), with a few puzzle-based scenarios that appealed to the two non-murderhobo players. Please keep in mind, the girlfriend wasn't the only player, nor was Bill. Sounds more like OP was just trying to throw a bone to the players who liked mental challenges in addition to the slaughter of everything that moves, including her seducing NPCs just to try murdering them in their sleep. I honestly think the GF might've had some *serious* issues, outside of apparently just wanting to be Erythnul incarnate.
I summon all the D&D people who got into D&D because of their significant other but now genuinely loves it. Maybe some of us are even a little obsessed and has made their significant other proud by making obscure references and overall being a complete D&D dork! Maybe you relate and maybe I'm projecting. Either way let's show off all the great D&D players who started as significant others to the DM or whatever and are really great players and DMs now. Let's bring in some positivity! Hands in or thumbs. It's group huddle time! Reply or like or ignore me. I have no control over what you do. It would be cool if you did though.
My boyfriend got my into D&D this summer. Have been really enjoying it ever since but find it hard to get really into it or know the mechanics like the back of my hand. Can still enjoy it though.
Boyfriend got me into it very soon after meeting him 3 years ago 😅 skip forward to now and I’ve turned into an absolute dice goblin, am one of the official campaign artists for our game, and am playing in 3 games a week, two of which are run by that boyfriend, all of which are extremely roleplay-heavy
I'll throw in here. My now-fiance introduced me (and several of our friends) to D&D back at our local community college, way-the-heck back in 2004, and I love the heck out of it. We've traded DM duties back and forth since, and introduced one another to tons of other RPGs over the years, but we always come back to D&D. It's amazing the kind of things that happen when two nerds meet in a creative writing class where they're some of the only ones there to actually, y'know, write creatively. (No joke, there were only five of us in that class who were there because we were interested in improving our writing skills. Everyone else basically said they were doing it for the credits and didn't want to have to read our long-ass stories to give actual constructive criticism. It was the most mind-numbing class ever, and the only good thing that came out of it was the five of us becoming friends.)
Lmao she how many times told him she wanted to kill big time, here take these items so you never have to fight.... and hes confused why she wasnt enjoying it, dude you literally white knighted your own gf's imaginary rouge... just let her have fun if she wants to kill let her bloom.
I was thinking the same thing. He clearly knew what she wanted and instead he gave EVERYONE else cool weapons and her items that specifically didn't fit what she wanted to do. That's the most passive aggressive middle finger a DM can give AND she's his GF.
Something isn't adding up here. If she's a rogue she should be doing tons of damage unless DM is making it hard to accomplish. If she's not using it herself then he should explain how to use it. By 5th level she WOULD have been doing the most damage if DM hadn't given super OP weapons to the martials. I suspect the DM was railroading and manipulating the entire time and the 2 "problem" players would have a very different version of events.
He said later that she was playing in ways that made her not get sneak attack. Which honestly as someone who loves rogues makes me angry. The whole point of them in melee is to be the one to stab the enemy in the back while everyone else draws fire. If you don't work with the mechanics of your class, you will suck. It would be like a barbarian refusing to ever rage or multi attack then whining that the fighter who uses multi attack and second wind constantly is outdoing you. Yeah, if you don't use the skills that make up the key features of your class, you will suck. If you want to murderhobo (I have a few campaigns like this) that's fine, but don't blame your inept playing on your class. Like, honestly, it sounds like she just didn't understand that if she wanted to hit hard, she had to make sure she got that sneak attack or just didn't want to listen.
@@AppleStrawberryLove Think about it, there are 2 other characters that are melee and simply having one of those adjacent to your target gets you sneak attack. She'd have to actively go out of her way not to get it most of the time. Why would she do that if she wanted to do big damage and knowing that it is easily done almost all tbe time. What this guy is saying happened doesn't add up. Add to that all of his obvious passive-aggressive moves (not allowing her to switch characters, giving super weapons to the guys that are already somehow doing more damage than the rogue and her crap she wouldn't want, constantly framing the game how he wanted it played that at least 2 players didn't like, etc.) makes me pretty sure he's at a minimum twisring the truth and leaving important details out. Given the ease of getting sneak attack by RAW coupled with his other behaviors, I'm betting he was manipulating the rules so as not to grant it. His story also gives telltale signs that he's manipulative and controlling. I don't buy this story as it's presented at all.
@@PsychoMike21000 That's your prerogative. I think you're twisting it to what you think it must be like. But from experience: most controlling people will not later admit they were wrong. They will continue to say that you were wrong or manipulate things. Yet throughout the story, he admits freely what he did wrong looking back. So forgive me if I think you are stretching hard to make things fit your idea of how it went. But based off of her attitude about the entire game... I lean more towards she'd have equal problems with any character she played because she essentially wanted to play a video game that autoaims and you just hit a button. Because I'll give you a hint: I've been in groups where majority were anime nerds. They can be really bad, depending on the people, about just wanting it to be like Final Fantasy but with dice. Just run up and whack and kill and go. So, I read those things and saw the attitudes and went "Oh, I know what she's thinking... mmm... not a good fit for DnD."
@@AppleStrawberryLove I don't have "an idea of how it went," I'm just sure we're not hearing the whole truth. As for manipulative and controlling people not admitting they made mistakes, I'm not sure you know how manipulation works. He tells a one-sided story that doesn't add up but admits to a few minor mistakes all the while making it sound like the mistakes were innocent. He doesn't address the elephant in the room. For example when he "admits" it was a mistake to give out powerful items, he doesn't address that the items he gave out specifically magnified the problem or that the items he gave his GF were significantly less useful (seriously what does an unbreakable lock pick matter unlezs the DM is saying your pick broke whenever you fail a check). Somehow, all the while that he "admits" to mistakes, he always portrays his GF and the other dude as the actual problem. It's a classic manipulation tactic: I made this minor but well-intentioned mistake but the real problem is how the other side acted/reacted. All you really need to lnow to question this story is that the Rogue wasn't doing much damage (despite that being the most important thing to them), and that she didn't often use sneak attack (how is that even possible with RAW and 2 melee party members).
@@PsychoMike21000 She *did* actively go out of her way to not get sneak attack. OP says "She would go out of her way to fight enemies herself to feel powerful, sleep with NPCs just to kill them in their sleep and split from the party to start combat." 8:19, shortly after the Deck of Many Things is brought up. She wasn't going after enemies that the Barbarian or Fighter had engaged, but rather was choosing to ignore them in favor of taking on enemies solo, or even actively leaving the party to find combat on her own. She also apparently didn't want anything to do with using stealthy tactics (she said she "Wasn't a fan of sticking to the shadows," as OP points out in one of the edits later, in addition to ignoring that the items he gave her were great for stealthy Rogue tactics), so she was apparently actively neutering her Rogue abilities.
Notification Gang, where you at! 17:24: BRO I FEEL YOU. WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT. It’s the ultimate disrespect to a DM. I’m fortunate I have an amazing group of people to run with. Campaign has been going for 2 years strong.
she didn't ask for a sword, first off. she just whined that her damage was low, while playing the class that does the most damage at melee without magic items at early levels. and more than likely she'd of gotten a dagger or rapier anyway. the best dex-based weapons aren't short swords.
This DM essentially just blames everything on allowing OP items. Blaming overpoweredness on the items and complains about how players didn't like his puzzles. 5e is by far the easiest to homebrew and balance. If their items are too strong, rebalance the encounter to make sure it becomes a little more challenging. This takes minimal effort. Now as a DM, I always help new players with making characters. This is to make sure they pick a class they like. His girlfriend clearly did not know what she picked and OP was of no help trying to find her a character she did like. Now shoving puzzles down the players throats when they don't like puzzles or mysteries is just incompetence. He's not seeing eye to eye with the players, nor interested in what they want out of a campaign. He just tries to force his likes onto them.
he knew they hate puzzles and after they just asked about his new game, even when he knew it is just one big puzzle - he did not even told them the game is not combat focused :D very strange how they did not loved the murder mystery...
3 года назад
Hell most normals and non RPG players do not think "Hooded figure who stabs people in the back" when they hear the word "Rogue" they are more likely thinking of a Han Solo type of Dashing Rogue sort of thing. is it any wonder the GF got pissed, especially when he pushed her to keep playing it (made her feel she had no choice thus never brought it up again) gave out cool gear to the other players (Gave her more crap that is about RP and less combat focused) and then pulls that mystery game out his ass on her, hell I bet he didn't even say there is almost no combat in it and probably said "Yeah there is some combat" if asked about it, lying just to get them to play the game he wanted them to play.
Saaaame xD Actually did that ones with my classmates (wasn't a dnd game, just a "riddle game" to pass the time) couse I hate cheaters. The thing I came up with made no sense, at all, but it was totaly worth it xD
I've learned the hard way that no DND is better than toxic DND. Also session 0 you have to ask people what they expect out of the game and get everyone to understand the tone you're going for. Genre as well but that's only as game breaking as you let it be. That lesson is hard, you just have to start searching for a new group.
“I’m not doing a lot of damage” “I see, here have a cloak of disguise self and a cool lock pick. Meanwhile fighter and Barbarian yall get some of the strongest weapons in the game and Wizard you get extra fireballs!”” Bruh
Yeah that was the worst part he forced them into situations they didn't like. (I mean a lot of them sounded not so good but it was avoidable) He gave a big middle finger to his GF with those items. I have played rouge before they can deal really high damage. I mean the sneak attacks helps for sure but two handed style rouge etc... can be so good. should just said sure roll up another character.
@@pudgebonetv9628 depending on the stats rolled and what yiu take a Halfling rouge can. Duel wielding Sneak attack on top of getting items that increase your damage and amount of attacks it is possible. Any race can do any class provider they roll well
man this really feels like one of those stories where everyone is the bad guy. OP wasn't listen to anybody and trying to railroad them into doing what he wanted and GF and bill just seemed to be generally toxic that guys
3 года назад+2
They were only toxic after he pulled his boner for puzzles and riddles out, kind of reeks of "Oh I am so smart for putting riddles and puzzles in" I can understand Bill and GF getting pissed because it makes them seem dumb especially if he was pulling the "Oh come on its easy (repeats riddle with no extra clues) see I know you have been sitting here for 20 minutes listening to the other 2 have fun but this is fun right? RIGHT!" I would be pissed too if I was denied a character change, then pressured and forced into Riddle and puzzles just for DM's own jollies, if he wants them so bad why doesn't he play a game with that. Never force players to do stuff they don't want to do, it makes the game no fun for them and they get bitter then might lash out, as what happened here.
How was OP railroading? They included riddles because half the group actually enjoyed them. Bill and gf were the ones acting like children whenever they were asked to use their brains.
GF: Asks for magic items to do more damage. DM: Gives the other players legendary weapons to turn them into living gods. Gives GF a magic lockpick. GF: But I want to kill things! DM: Here's an disguise cloak. Now you don't have to fight at all! GF: Alright, give me combat encounters, I want to feel badass. DM: No, you are sneaky thief. Here's your encounter: sneak thru this corridor, disarm a trap and pick a lock.
He should’ve just let her reroll for a new class/character. I like being sneaky and avoiding fights when I can, but I understand that’s not everyone’s cup of tea. So why force her to stay as that class?
Yes, ripping my eyelashes out with a roll of duck tape is also my go to when I am flung into a fit of rage. Lmao it made my laugh. Keep up the good work. :)
pretty much this. Like, he already knew she didn't like exploring those aspects of the rogue class, and just doubled down on giving her items that would make her better at things she wasn't enjoying. Plus, in comparison to some of that other loot she did get kind of gypped.
@@yvesorzel4168 Honestly his whole post came off as a "If they don't have fun the way I do they aren't having fun right!" bitchfest to me. Yeah, having people repeatedly complain about your campaign is draining AND he gave in to them a little with the magic items, but the core of his problem is he completely ignored half of his group because they didn't like playing the way he liked playing. And with him not sharing 90% of the supposed relationship problems he had with her due to it "not fitting the subreddit", we can't even be sure she was toxic in the relationship. I'm not saying he's lying to make himself look good and make people agree with him, but it sure as hell feels like he's not giving us the full truth about the situation and is expecting nothing but a rousing fellating for sharing his story about how he failed utterly as a DM because he couldn't be assed to give a fuck about two of his players, one of whom he was dating. Also his defence for her not changing class was dumb as hell. "Oh I would've let her change, she obviously just didnt want to!" No dumbass, you FORCED her into playing rogue. You refused to let her change when she realized she wanted to be something different after a session of playing rogue, and whenever she asked for you to fix her problem you gave her more stuff a rogue player would enjoy and said "figure it the fuck out". If she played a rogue in future campaigns its likely due to a sense of inevitability of being forced to be a rogue you fostered by ignoring her needs as a player or due to a fear of failure in execution of other classes because all she knew was rogue features and everyone else already knew how to play their preferred characters. A small part of it may have been due to liking her character's development so far (even if she didn't roleplay at all apparently to you), but most of the attachment to something like that is usually out of a fear of "what if things go worse" and a sunken cost fallacy mindset. A good DM doesn't force someone to play with a character they decided they aren't having fun with; it's all too easy to love a concept but hate how it executes in-game and fall into a character trap that makes you utterly miserable, especially for new players, and if you're running a first campaign for people, you should have a couple of quick-start sheets for different classes made up ready for them to plug in the race/background they want should they want to try something new mid-first session because being able to probe all the classes and get a rough idea of what they do lets players more readily find the gameplay niches they enjoy. Honestly, as a DM I'm just sitting here utterly gobsmacked that this asshole thinks other DM's would pat him on the back for his blatant and flagrant disregard for the happiness of first time DND players.
Honestly never believe rpg horror stories unless they have reciepts, take them as entertainment. And in this case it just wasnt very entertaining cause the solutions is right there.
@@greasysmith3150 honestly this is a great take. Every time I read one I almost always side with the "problem player" lol. The OPs always just tell the story in such a way that makes them seem like more of a problem half the time. Good entertainment though regardless.
Christ, just let her play a fighter or a barbarian, she clearly doesn't want to play a rogue. At the same time don't get rolled over with everything else to compensate for forcing her to play a rogue.
@@darthfenrir7773 Or just got tired of asking unsuccessfully / got promised magic items that would make her damage go up a lot (therefore her main problem, the lack of damage would be gone), so stopped asking. (And then got magic items that didn't do crap to her damage, while others got epic weapons. ) Plus, I really don't think forcing her to wait longer to switch is a good thing if she already clearly said she wants to switch, and he knew that she will never get to her goal & deal the most damage out of the group as a rouge.
I mean, she wasn't wrong about the wizards name being cringe, and with her clear intent to do damage and combat giving everyone else weapons but only her a out of combat item seems. If I had been bummed about being lame in combat and asked for my DM to help and they gave every one else combat stuff and me something entirely different, id feel pretty disrespected. I dunno.. not to dog pile OP.. but this is session zero stuff.. understanding and communicating player expectations and GM expectations.
Yeah, this sounds like a nightmare game, but it's as much on OP as GF. If she tells you she wants to play a damage dealer it's just not cool to railroad her into being a sneaky support character.
@@omnical6135 He didnt seem to learn from mistakes, though. Apart from the obvious mistake of starting multiple campaigns with toxic players, these players constantly made it very clear they were interested in murder and only murder, yet he keeps pushing riddles and mysteries on them. The group dynamic probably would have worked a lot better if he had made a monster hunter-esque campaign instead of a murder mystery.
@@2MeterLP I definitely agree with you. However, I just want to point out that he didn't write the murder mystery for that group. his fault there was being a pushover and not speaking his mind early on by saying "I don't think you're gonna enjoy this campaign because it's mainly puzzles and RP" and then if she insisted, she'd obviously be at fault. but he was writing the campaign for himself. he clearly doesn't see the appeal of combat heavy RP, so he should've just stopped playing with the GF and Bill
Kills everyone, ignore roleplay moments, ignore puzzles. "I don't think you know how to tell a good story." Well... maybe if you'd interact with the story, we'd know if I could or not.
It really didn't sound like she wanted to from the start. It seemed like she didn't like DnD and he tried really hard to make it work.
Kinda feels like GF just wanted to be granted god powers by virtue of being in a relationship with DM.
@@EustaBAracer sounds to me that she wanted to play Skyrim instead or that DnD. :/ To put it bluntly.
@@EustaBAracer I knew a bitch like that, just in an MMO. She was one of the cancers that killed the guild.
They wouldn't know a good story if it punched them in the face.
"It was a murder mystery."
"They killed everyone."
Cop: Well, we know who the suspects are! Easiest arrest ever.
Honestly that might be fun: a murder mystery where you're the culprit, trying to get away unsuspected and without getting caught.
@ReboundSpirit They show up after. You know cops, always late to the party!
PCs: "Oh hey, officer, no need for you to worry about a killer on the loose. We killed everyone inside this mansion and within a mile radius of it. We're sure the murderer was one of them."
@@rocketraccoon1976 Cop "okay boys pack it up, case solved"
I mean if you kill everyone there is 100% chance you got the right person lol...just also every other person.
This is a solid story here, I picked out so many mistakes the DM was making, and instead of like in other stories the DM being all like "well idk what went wrong its not my fault" he actually recognized each one of his mistakes and took responsibility for them and remembered them for the future. Its sad this had to be the way he learned better, but I trust it has only made him a wiser DM.
I was thinking the same thing. There were a whole lot of people in the comments pointing out what the DM did wrong and we all clearly know that he was wrong but he recognized that he should've done something different. And I think he deserves some credit for realizing that he didnt do that well, bc there are plenty DM's that would be quick to accuse the players of wrongdoing.
Learning from mistakes is the way we remember what to do most vividly.
I don't think you're a real DM until at least one campaign goes down in flames because you done goofed.
He read her wrong, she was clearly complaining about how little dmg she did and wanted to do more, he tried to do something about that and gave her more utility, ok, to a normal player that would be good, but the girl wanted more dmg, he took a wrong turn two times.
He didn't recognize how he just didn't listen to any of his players at all. Like sure he recognized some of his mistakes but the biggest one was to keep playing with people who didn't enjoy his style of game. He threw a murder mystery campaign at two players who only wanted to kill things. He threw a puzzle section at the same two players who had already expressed distaste for puzzles and such.
Man, the lines where OP stopped writing their campaign, and the one where they're still recovering from that relationship... really broke my heart. I don't think the rookie DM mistakes being fixed would've changed anything.
I agree, I think GF wanted to play just to browbeat and shit talk DM
Shame that some of the players didn't appreciate that little "chess puzzle" it sounds like it was really creative and a lot of fun!
I made something kinda similar for an encounter in an archfey's palace. The PCs could only move in the same directions their respective pieces would, they would have advantage of they attacked in the same directions, and disadvantage if they attacked outside of them. The enemies where all animated armors with modified weapons who moved and attacked following the rules of chess, and initiative was handled more like chess than dnd. Overall it was pretty fun, I even used an actual chess board as the battlemap.
if your players want to play Call of Duty, it doesn't matter how good of a soccer game you put in front of them, they'll be upset
I certainly am stealing/adapting this Chess Puzzle because the idea was genius
I am not a puzzle guy
that was the biggest moment that felt like the DM's fault to me. you don't put literal chess into D&D unless you know that all of the players know how to play chess and enjoy it. the fact that some of the players didn't even know how to play chess just shows that the DM wasn't thinking about what was right for the group at all. it takes awhile to teach someone how to play chess, so obviously anyone who doesn't know how to play would be completely left out.
This reeks of "Why am I so weak in-game when I am the one sleeping with DM irl?" energy.
You think? I just got a feeling she wanted to be best because of low self-esteem. But idk.
I feel like the "first mistake" was actually pushing gf to stick with a rogue when she realised early on it wasn't her cup of tea.
The second mistake was probably giving her items to make her a super rogue, when all she wanted was to not be a rogue.
dm didn't push her to stick with rogue. she insisted. she even ran rogue in the campaign where op was a player and mocked him for being useless
@@lighthadoqdawg he initially did push her to stick with the character when she first had doubts about it, had he suggested a different class to her then instead of telling her to stick it out things would have still turned out the same since their playstyles just didn't mesh with each other, but at least the GF would have enjoyed the first game a little more.
@@Daredhnu you say that as if her issues were simply "not doing enough damage"
her issue was she wasn't "doing the most damage"
no matter what the Dm let her switch to, or accommodated her with as far as her character sheet goes. her refusal to utilize her party in any capacity would diminish her damage output.
she couldn't be bothered to even fish for sneak attacks. there's no way she'd outdamage the fighter and barb even with a fighter or barb herself.
it was clear she was complaining to be given special treatment and had main character-itus. expecting her boyfriend to humor her.
also, I don't get this whole "rogues are weak" thing. that's far from true, rogues are some of the highest burst damage units in the game, the reason why they don't get extra attacks is because they would be ridiculous .
if a player can't handle playing a rogue/monk, they definitely won't like playing fighter or barbarian.
@@lighthadoqdawg well i did say the end result would have been the same, exactly because she was a toxic player that suffered from extreme entitlement, even if i didn't specify that last part, but the DM handled it wrong literally every step of the way, trying to force a playstyle on her that she clearly didn't want, he would have been better served just finding other people to play with or just not playing at all, since no game is better than a toxic game.
@@Daredhnu and clearly he was better off dropping not only the games with her and Ben but the relationship as well.
Like you said, they simply weren't compatible. And thy clearly were not interested in keeping emotions in check and revelled in their in game toxicity.
The dm admitted his faults all the way tho. And I'm more inclined to be linient on a bad dm who realized they made noob mistakes and look to fix them rather than excuse themselves. A majority of people commenting seem to be under the impression op was not admitting his own faults or even imply that he should have conceded to his gf for the sake of the relationship.
No gf is better than a bad gf, just like dnd
Me at first: "Man this DM is being way too hard on himself. There's nothing wrong with handing out a few cool magic items at level four-"
CritCrab: "...Wave and Blackrazor"
Me: "Ah."
Also:
GF: "I'm upset I don't do the most damage in the party and I don't like sneaking around in the shadows!"
GM: *Gives everyone else Legendary magic weapons and gives GF no weapons, just items that make her sneak around in the shadows better*
@@myname9130 There was a method to it. He was trying to get his GF to understand that Rogues are more equipped for sneaking and evasion. While I would've given her some kind of dagger he had his reasons.
"She was mad that her rogue didn't do the most damage of the party, so I gave her some magic items to even things out"
I can see that, yeah. Maybe a Dagger of Venom, or a Rapier or-
"I gave her Boots of Spider Climb and a Cloak of Elvenkind."
Ah. Well. A rogue who *isn't* a murder-hobbit would definitely love those!
Right?
Yeah, while she is the one who's the most at fault he kinda kept trying to force her into being a character she clearly didn't want to be.
@@supernerd5781 she clearly wanted to play a rogue given she played in more than just the one game as a rogue
@@noyou9379 But he kept forcing a play style on her
But at the end he mentioned that he did give a Dagger of Venom.
DM doesn't seem bad to me, his introspection leads me to believe he's a potentially good DM. Hell he mentioned that he ignored obvious red flags that a more seasoned person would know to avoid. I think he was just inexperienced as a boyfriend and as a DM, which time can take care of. I wish him luck in future endeavors both romantically and in game.
well he still wanted to railroad the players into things they very very clearly don't like.
He could've avoided the whole murder house thing by saying "babe this thing is full of riddles".
Agreed.
@@GamePandaXXL I don't think it went down quite like that. he was trying to introduce them into dnd and tried to get her to do literally anything her class could do that wasn't just stab, it's really hard to get people out of the video game mindset of "big damage mean good game" when dnd is NOT that. he clearly wanted them to experience dnd and not a slow version of a video game. not to mention as much as he knew she'd hate it, when you're a really inexperienced boyfriend and you just want to spend time with your gf or make her happy, and she asks to be part of your game, you say yes. even if that's not the right move.
@@WineRedEchos That is the problem. He wanted her to introduce to how he thought DnD should be played. He wanted to force them out of that murder hobo mindset and that went about as well as you can expect.
He should've just let them live their fantasy, teasing the other aspects and if they don't go for it, then let them be murder hobos.
This is purely on the DM. You have to listen to the players and adapt to that and not force your way of "correct play" on them.
"it's really hard to get people out of the video game mindset of "big damage mean good game" when dnd is NOT that" why not? DnD is whatever you want it to be. If you just want to split open some monster skulls and don't care about any NPC cause e.g. you work in retail and human interaction is what you have all day and you're tired of it then it's your right to just have some good fights. ESPECIALLY when the entire group is fine with it or also hates riddles.
@@GamePandaXXL maybe I'm just not a good player but murderhobos aren't good dnd players. And tbh of NOT all on the dm, if you're a player and your dm is clearly feeding you hints and ideas you could humor them and you might have a good time, maybe it's not fun for the dm to just be in big combat scenarios all the time. Dnd is a group game and when the dm isn't having fun that is just as much of a problem. And half that group did like puzzles, he gave them 2 dungeons, 1 that appealed to the combat people and the other that appealed to the puzzle people, but the murderhobos just ruined it by googling instead of stepping outside their box for more than 5 seconds.
The whole point of doing things in a group is to play with people, not to force everyone to play your way. Yeah the dm fucked up here and he's not blameless, but it's also just as much if not more on the players for straight up refusing to play to what he was comfortable creating, especially with the murder mystery.
"I want the biggest damage" sounds like the start of a spotlight-hog's career.
Yeah, that was a ginormous red flag.
DM was making a ton of really bad mistakes, too.
Yeah, she needs to stick to playing Skyrim if she wants to be the biggest, baddest, most extra specialest character ever.
@@bluedragonfly8139 she won't even stick to any videogame becuase that menas she can't be the biggest baddest specialest charachter ever from lvl 1.
No it sounds to me like someone who prefers combat over role play, had this often as I play games designed for min maxers because I noticed nobody plays with them or they don't play cos they know they cant help it, 2 things you can do.
1. incentivise role play with combat effeceincy, If they role play give them inspiration or they role play with someone who gives them a powerful buff or a new weapon.
2. Realize this game session isn't for them and let them know its gonna be role play heavy and they likely wont enjoy it.
The whole time I was like "Please have dumped her. You two are clearly not compatible if she gets pissed off about something you put your heart into." So happy...
I think her being mentally unstable and hanging around substance abusers is red flags enough. You'd be surpriced if someone like that DID NOT screw up at the table.
This all is a case of differing expectations. Honestly, I felt like it was pretty clear from the story that Bill and the GF were looking for more of a wargame feel. It's really weird for a player to tell the DM explicitly, "oh man, I want to do more damage, if only I could get some magic items that would make me do more damage," and then receive a Disguise Self cloak, a magical lockpick and Boots of Spider Climbing... meanwhile, the Barbarian gets a Horn that summons him an army and the Fighter gets a Defender and the most broken sword in the game.
Same. It felt like he was pushing her in a direction he wanted her to go instead of where she wanted to go.
Ya lol, wave and black razor are legendary items that probably should be artifacts
Agreed. I really think the root of all his problems in the game, and with his relationship out of it, was that he just didn't listen to her. Actually, it is worse than that, because he repeated what she said a few times. He was listening, he was just dismissing and invalidating her perspective.
@@brandynnutter Precisely.
This is why I think a session zero should be mandatory just so things like this don't happen.
@@brandynnutter WHAT. yeah i agree that OP was also at fault in the campaign, but the relationship. the hell you talking about boy, she was pushy and when he didnt agree with her she ignored him or criticized him and his hobby. I know the word simp is overused but damn are you close to it because this is definetly both of their faults. (sorry if i mispelled some things.)
The first mistake was he found his girlfriend at an anime convention. As a weeb myself, that's a big red flag.
I'm blown away by the sheer number of sessions this DM ran while feeling unappreciated and not having fun...
Also sounded like their relationship needed a session 0 before dating. If I had a gf that hated everything I considered fun I'd dump her and say "there's the door". Cause it's not going to be a happy relationship when some interests aren't shared. I know my mom tells me that the best relationships are when your lover is your best friend as well. Anyway glad the DM is having fun with D&D again
How do you not have more likes... I laughed so freaking hard at the "Also sounded like their relationship needed a session 0 before dating"
Idk what to tell you, I completely forgot about this comment cause of how old it is. While a funny analogy, it's really important to communicate some things before dating. And it's good to be friends for some time before getting closer. It's kinda funny that most of us men prefer women who are virgins or at least really low body counts and most women lately often prefer men to have some sexual experience. At least while looking at the dating scene in the US. Another thing about my analogy that I kinda touched on is that there's a possibility that the DM could've avoided dating a crazy woman, though women are also very good at hiding their crazy until they feel secure in the relationship. So maybe not, anyway I haven't dated since before the first announcement of covid in the US. Entirely my choice cause I haven't been looking, my last 3 relationships were all women who need therapy and antidepressants before trying to date
Last time I was this early, Rowen was still in a DND game and hadn't yet tried to impale someone's shoulders
Last time I was this early, Ross was actually a bad guy and it wasn't just the op overreacting.
something something Craig, that is all
Last time I was early, we were all just done with our adventure.
All. Except. Fehkar.
@@HunhowsShadowStalker Last time I was this early, I threw a rock at god, YOU HEAR ME?!
Lmfao oh I miss rowan XD
"If you enjoyed this story" I mean, I definitely did NOT enjoy this story, but that's why I'm here so...
only entertaining thing on the whole story was crabs input, dm and the story sucked
@@histkontext yeah imo the DM is a little bit of a that guy, not that his girlfriend wasnt shitty but yknow
I like how the two players who weren't super interested were the two who were the better players and more invested in the world and problem solving. I find this fascinating
D&D can indeed show you what kind of person your friends truly are.
Alright, I'll throw in my two cents:
The DM screwed up, several times. I know that his gf at the time eventually chose to stick with the Rogue and continued making Rogues of her own volition, but when she first said that she wanted a character who was more about "big number," he SHOULD have allowed her to switch, or gave her choices of different classes she might enjoy, LIKE a Fighter or Barbarian. He definitely handed out magical items that were way too powerful way too early (rookie mistake), and definitely gave his gf items that he should have known she wouldn't like. He was at fault for several things, and to his credit, he appears to acknowledge his failings at pretty much every step, which you don't see in this channel very often.
That being said, I think the comments are giving the gf too much of a free pass here.
I agree that she shouldn't have played a rogue and she made it clear she wasn't sure she liked the class, but she still eventually chose to stick with it and continue making Rogues, all while refusing to utilize the Rogue's skillset. She was constantly berating and insulting the DM any time he tried to do something not related to combat. And most importantly, SHE was not the only one in the group. The DM seemed like he was trying his best to make the game a good mix of everything, and half the table was having a blast with it, while she would immediately duck out the moment something that wasn't about killing shit was thrown on the table. Even if you aren't great at puzzles, Googling the solution to a DM's puzzle after a few minutes just because you can't be bothered to put in effort is insulting to that DM... you know, even without her insulting him while she did it.
Yes, some players are more interested in some areas of D&D than others. Some players DO just want to play for the combat and the big numbers. And that's OKAY. But D&D, above all, is a collaborative effort between everyone in the group. Everyone contributes to make the game fun for the whole. And at almost every turn, she refused to entertain that idea. She wanted magical items, but she refused to help the party with the quest to get them. They get a fortress raid split evenly between puzzles and combat, and she immediately folds her arms and complains once they enter the non-combat part. Simply put, she refused to be a team player unless it was about fighting, and that's not a good player.
In the end, it's a story where no one comes out of it looking good. The DM and GF both had wildly different ideas about what they wanted this game to be, and neither would give an inch. I'm glad the DM seems to have taken a lot from this event, and I hope he's improved, because I could tell he has a lot of potential. Despite being a bit stuck in his own mentality and being oblivious to what his gf REALLY wanted, he showed a lot of passion and creativity, he clearly wanted to make a good game for everyone. Not a terrible DM, just very misguided in the beginning.
Reading through the comments I'm beginning to suspect some people don't make it to the end of the video.
1) GF didn't want to switch by session 3 or 4 but still wanted bigger damage.
2) DM admits he handled things wrong constantly.
3) Both murderhobos started going full CN/CE near the end ruining it for their other two party members.
In other regards a new DM is not going to know how to handle any of these group dynamics. Nor are the going to want to kick the two other founding members out even if it is clear they are looking for something else. Let's not forget the murder mystery game he is berated for (while the group starts making the murders to remove the mystery) or the tank character he makes that GF is like, "Oh he's down? Hope he dies."
Sorry, but I've played in enough MMOs to spot the problem DPS player that pulls groups and breaks crowd control. There is no fixing it and it is 100% a toxic and selfish mentality. These are the same types in MOBAs who complain they can't nuke a Tank in two hits. The same types in PvP who demand nerfbats to anything that isn't their favorite class.
You cannot fix, nor appease, the gloryhound and they will always move the goal post until they are the ones running the game/campaign, which is something the two other players were noticing was happening with the murderhobos. So, I have sympathy for the DM and what hindsight has taught him - I have no sympathy for definitely CE characters with at best "CN" players that ruin games for others.
"Magic items at level 4."
My level 4 character with a bag of holding and several enchanted items: [Whistles inconspicuously]
I give my players an 'artifact' item at level 1.
At level one though. It does nothing special.
One player I gave a sword that lit up like a torch and did fire damage instead of slashing.
When he turned level 3 I gave the sword the ability to cast a fire divine favor.
Depending on how the player likes the item or how they play I tweak it.
Every player I've had have loved their 'signature item'.
@@benjaminjane93 Gonna steal the idea. I like giving magic items early on but always end up with something more powerful than I intended. An artifact that levels with the player would be perfect! Bonus: They won't know that it is an artifact. This can add a nice RP element to it
Here's two I created. One for an early level campaign and one for a campaign that started at higher level.
*Sword of Uther*
Wielding this sword increases your Charisma ability score by 1.
(Upgrades)
*Honor*
While this sword is held by someone who has sworn the Oath of the Lightbringer at Uther's tomb it deals an additional 1d6 + Honor Ability Score Modifier Radiant Damage to the enemies of the Light. (Demons, Devils, and Undead)
*Duty*
The swords allows the wielder to use their reaction to allow a creature the wielder can see within 30 feet to re-roll a failed saving throw.
*Leadership*
Whenever you enter combat, starting on your turn, you and any willing creature you wish within 30 feet of you are under the effect of the Heroism spell for one minute. The spell ends if the wielder can't maintain concentration.
___
*Mourn*
If you are a Paladin wielding this axe you gain the Conquering Presence Channel Divinity feature. If your oath is already that of the Oath of Conquest, you instead gain a +1 bonus to your save DC when using Conquering Presence.
(Upgrades)
*No Mercy*
For each creature you slay wielding Mourn. Your Strength Ability Score increases by one and your Constituion Score decreases by one until your next short or long rest. Your Strength Score can only be increased to a maximum of 25 using this feature.
*No Hope*
Whenever you use the divine smite feature, divine strike, or a smite spell, when striking an enemy target, you can choose to inflict necrotic damage instead of the original damage type. Additionally, whenever you smite a target using a spell slot above 2nd level. Your target must succeed on wisdom save against your spell save DC or be frightened of you.
*No Escape*
Whenever you strike an enemy with this enemy who is under the Frightened condition. You may deal an additional 2d8 Cold Damage as part of the weapons damage roll. Using this feature ends the Frightened condition on the enemy target.
Most of my groups D&D campaigns have us start at level 3 or 4. That way we can "get into the fun" faster while still being somewhat low level. In 3.5 (which is all I play. 3.5/3.0) there is a chart of the average gold a character would have at a given level. You would be surprised how many and what kinds of magic items you can buy with the gold for level 4. I most of the time play a cleric. Not only can I get pretty good healing items(magic bandages healing ointments), but also armor (a good +1 mithril scalemail or one with a protection) and weapons (a good +1 or holy mace) and over all utilitarian items (Like endless waterskin and magic clocks).
I've had a DM who did the opposite: level 8 and the whole party was in rag and sticks, _again_ after the DM railroaded the story into all of us getting captured and imprisoned once more. Whenever we'd loot a leather armor, we knew it would only last a session or two until we'd be dipped in acid that melts off our clothing. And whenever we received "magic items" it was stuff like a homebrew spell to go through walls that he would always deny us to use, or a sex change potion. Oh, and he once inserted a party member's OC into the campaign as an NPC, only to have her beheaded in front of the player character on the very same session to "teach the player a lesson about telling a DM what to do". It's not even the worst DM I've had, he's like the 3rd or 4th worst. Thankfully the universe gave me a way out and I died from three nat 1s in a row.
Since then, I really don't mind when someone gets early magic items. Have fun.
"I gave them black razor"
Yeah, that alone is when you mess up
Especially when he gives the other two martials op weapons and her stuff that's out of combat.
I can only hear 'Black Razor' in the voice Matt McMuscles used in his Rogue Warrior episode of Wha Happun?
This story reminds me of why a session zero is so important, in my experience the DMs I played with ignored this part of D&D. The one thing my last DM did not learn was that players will go off script, and may not be interested in doing the encounter that they setup.
"Hey you made part of a campaign WHY DIDNT YOU TELL ME!!! lets play it!"
*Hates the very premise of the campaign itself, and crushes partner's dreams again*
Did she not even ask what the campaign was about? These people need combat heavy games fed to them, the writing just isnt being consumed by its target audience.
If she is going to act like that and be so damn picky over a game, then she has no right to be angry when you dont tell her about the games you write...
Given the way OP described the events and his past inability to notice he was pushing a playstyle she didn't want, I suspect he didn't tell her what the game was going to be about. This was a comedy of errors, coupled with toxic mindsets from GF and Bill.
@@Draeckon GF chose multiple times to stay a rogue, even choosing rogue in subsequent campaigns. There is no class GF could've picked and actually been happy. If she had dealt the most damage, she would complain about her sneak. If she had unstoppable magic, she'd complain about her AC, etc.
Props to the DM for putting up with those two. I would've called it quits long ago or told them to actually read up on the character and classes they choose so they will like to play them.
The last line really made the video! Agreed, who the f*** does that?!?!
Should have just let her remake her character she wanted a big damage class and wasn't suited for rogue why push it on her. But her attitude was pretty shit also lol.
I agree that both party’s were in the wrong.
13:40
She picked Rogue herself he did not push it on her and she refused to switch afterwards. Rogues are very strong doing single target damage too with how easy it is to get your Sneak Attack bonus. He tried to help her out on many occasions while he admits to doing some mistakes himself but otherwise did a good job giving her items that benefited her class. Her attitude made it that much more difficult for the DM to do his job as the DM trying to balance things and make things fun and interesting but she dismissed absolutely everything every time without care.
@@erickchristensen746 She was a new player. Her desire was clearly to do great damage in combat. She made a newbie mistake, a decent DM would've let her pick a new class when they were still level 1.
@@mormacil
Did you watch the video? She Refused to change classes
@@mormacil the thing is that she was asking to be killed off during sessions 1 & 2 but decided to stick with the rogue starting in session 3, and being a first time DM he was hesitant about killing someone off that soon, he did mention that he set things up so that if she still wanted to change class in session 3 she could.
He wasn't the best, but he'd still definitely fall in the decent category of DMs. Certainly not amazing or godly, but also not trash like some of the DMs we hear about.
Fun fact about Cancer (the constellation of the Crab): during the Lernaean Hydra Labour, after Heracles and his nephew figured out how to finally kill the beast, Hera sent an army of crabs (or a giant single crab, stories conflict) after the pair to make them fail the labour. They/it were/was a nasty opponent(s) and worked well with the Hydra somehow, but in the end Heracles crushed them/it underfoot before finishing the serpent. As thanks for their valiant efforts, Hera brought the remains into the sky and formed the Cancer constellation (but because they failed their tasks of killing Heracles, they were never as bright as many of the other Zodiac constellation).
Just thought you might like this. It makes crabs like you even more badass than you'd think at first glance.
Critcrab when reading a horror story: calm
Critcrab when seeing someone googles riddle answers: 17:25
I'm hearing a lot of parts where the DM learns his players hate puzzles and mysteries, and the DM just keeps throwing puzzles and mysteries at them and laments how much they hated it. Sometimes you have to choose between challenging your players and letting your players have fun. Don't make your players literally play chess unless you know they enjoy those kinds of games.
I personaly think that the level of intelligence of the DM was high different to the GF and probably Bill. (for example the 3-Person thing he tryed)
Or maybe he shouldn't have forced her into a class she obviously didn't like playing.
@@Lobsterwithinternet Yeah that too. The rogue does decent damage once a turn, but they really are outclassed by all the other classes damage wise
and the player wanted a powerful magical item to do more damage and he gave her lockpick shit. She clearly wanted to just be able to do more damage. Sounds like the DM was trying to force a playstyle on her that she din't want to play. If she wants to stab harder, just fuckin give her something to stab harder with. Players that want to do more damage are the easiest players in the universe to please.
You can also do fun shit like "if you successfully sneak up on an enemy, your sneak attack deals 3d6 extra force damage", to encourage them to use roguey shit while also catering to their desire to murder faster
@@Lobsterwithinternet YEP! She should have been a paladin or battlemaster with a greatsword and felt like a BAMF. she wanted to Power Fantasy and he wanted her to play splinter cell
Actually in one of my old groups we had to google the DMs riddle because the sludge brain “paraphrased” it, but left out information and forgot the details. So we looked up what riddles could be similar and he kept saying “I don’t remember, but that wasn’t it.” So we spent so much time guessing, rolling for clues and what not (at no point did he ever just back down and change it up or anything. He made us try to figure out this UNSOLVABLE PUZZLE and GLOATED about how simple the answer was.) eventually we decided to just shout out the answers from google. And eventually we got it...
"sludge brain" fits this DM well
@@thekenyonsquad5672 yeah, the group basically hit him with an NWO like split. He brought us all together but we realized that we’d long since stopped enjoying his game since it was basically just an ego stroke for he and his wife; we also realized that we really liked each other and still wanted to play together with another group member as DM. So we just aired our grievances to the DM as not only players, but Friends. He made empty promises that didn’t pan out so we went splitskies and started having a new gathering at another house without the DM, his wife and the rest of their little clique of “we did extra sessions without you guys is why *blank* has that (anything).”
That last bit rant at the end of the video... OMG I feel that! Who looks up the answers to a riddle on their phone in front of the GM like that?! That's like reading a module of an entire campaign you're in and just "knowing" the outcome. That is some next lvl tier godmodding that deserves 1000 radiant damage right there!
I'm with crit on the "Who the f*** googles an answer to a DM's riddle"
*GLORY TO THE SACRED CRAB!* THE KINGDOM OF CRAB IS MADE EVER MORE GLORIOUS THIS DAY!
SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! CRABS FOR THE CRAB GOD!
Praise the crab! DEUS CRAB!
FOR THE CRAB LORD
fish
@@fish3340 *Y e s*
Gm: Put's a puzzle infront of player
Player: doesn't like it
Gm: makes a whole dungeon of pzzles later
Player: doesn't like it again
Gm: surprised Pikachu face
There were 4 players. 2 of them liked puzzles. He wasn’t surprised that the other two didn’t like the puzzles, but that they were so rude and selfish as to google the answers while the other two players were actively engaged with it, just because they themselves didn’t like it.
@@davidflore2543 sure, so gate two of your players out of sessions. That sounds majestic too.
Im not saying they were in the right with their attitude, but it does feel like the dm was just trying to shoehorn them into the game style he enjoyed
@@davidflore2543 Ummm the 2 who liked it were combat guys in a combat keep, the ones who hated puzzles got the puzzle keep?
If the puzzle guys love em so much why did the DM not put them in the puzzle keep?
He was railroading two players who clearly would of been better off as different classes, but I feel he had a certain "Idea" of what a party should be a pressured the GF and Bill to play the roles they picked.
@ they were all clearing the two keeps together, the barbarian would receive the combat keep after it was cleared and the wizard would get the trapped keep once it was cleared, but all 4 were working together on each keep.
Girl wants to do huge damage
DM gives everyone ELSE stronk magic weapons
Well.... that was an obvious mistake.
yup, sounds a bit passive aggressive even, I think
"I wanna do damage!"
"No, your character is low level and bad at that"
"I want to change characters because I'm not good at damage!
"Here's some magic items that don't help you do damage. Also here's a bunch of super dangerous, high-damage weapons for your friends."
I don't understand why my gf isn't having fun and doesn't want to engage with my world, guys!
He did understand though, he acknowledged how he fucked up
she still sounds like a lame party member to play with tbh
@@ianwamsley2595 acknowledging you fucked up (to a bunch of strangers on the internet) after fucking up a bunch doesn't unfuck the up.
She never explicitly said she wanted to change characters; he clearly says he would have let her.
@@darthfenrir7773 LOL, she does, in like the first 2 min. of the story. She wants to actually kill the character to replace it. He shoots her down.
Sorry but what? She said early on what she wanted, and even said she wanted to swap characters when she realized the class wasn't fitting her playstyle, and the DM shot her down. The DM should have listened to what the player wanted to mitigate this. I'm not saying she wasn't in the wrong as well but the DM literally ignored the player every time she GAVE him the information he needed -- he was more focused on how HE thought rogues should be played, instead of adapting to the player.
My thoughts exactly!
8 minutes into this and I am already yelling, "YOU are the problem! Listen to your player!"
Yes listen to your player. Who has already exhibited whiney little girl behavior. And would have just gotten worse and worse anyway. Which is what happened. They shouldn’t have been playing together at all. If all you care about is doing the most damage and never ever ever ever ever making a single other roll than to attack you should excuse yourself from the game when you realize the dm uses puzzles or social encounters at all. And he should have kicked them the second they started ignoring everything that wasn’t combat. They clearly drug the rest of the group down from day one.
Yeah, especially because the time she first asked to switch was REALLY early on and wouldn’t hurt the campaign progression and (if she chose Fighter or something) might’ve been more beginner friendly as well. I don’t understand the point of DM shooting her down like that and being surprised she wasn’t happy.
@@Ifrit8054 oooooor just let them have the fights they want to have. There is no right or wrong way to play dnd. She wasnt to do big damage, she wanted to be top tier dps. Some people are into that. And beginners tend to be more attracted to combat heavy types of games before they ease out into the roleplaying.
Honestly from the sounds of it op has more than his share of blame. Gf repeatedly voiced disatisfaction with her character and showed no interest in the sneak aspects of a rogue. He should have just let her reroll a barbarian and move on not double down on giving her non combat rogue abilities. But if i was the gm i would have just ran solo for the other friends because the gf and bill are terrible.
I agree. At least he acknowledges his mistakes at the end though.
I mean he literally said at the end, she wanted to stay a rogue by the 3rd session and continued choosing rogues in the future, despite it clearly not being what she wanted out of a character, so you can't really blame the GM except for maybe not calling her out on it.
yep and DM clearly doesn't even understand rogue and completely ignores the purpose of rogue assassin's high DMG potential and thinks that a tank class would deal more lmaoo
The gf willingly stays a rogue. This stopped being on him the moment she decided to be stupid and staying with something she knows she doesnt like instead of trying something else.
You dont even need to be a rouge if the sneaking and expertise are what you're after, it baffles me why she would stay this class and never multiclass when she knows its not what she wants.
There's a chance she would still be pissy for not being the character with the highest damage
Of course. They're supposed to solve a murder mystery, so their solution is to try murdering more people. These stories make me really glad that everyone I play with is pretty chill.
"There where a lot of other problems with GF"
Wouldn't have guessed 😂
This sounds sad, I can't wait!
Differing expectations + Red Flags = TROUBLE Plus, Bill and GF sound like they just wanted to control everything and be DMs in everything but name.
bill and gf sound bad, disliking puzzles and sh*t shouldn't make them whine about the writing, plus it sounds like gf is the "look at how cool i am" type
Neither party looked good here. The GF (and Bill) both stated very early that they wanted to do big damage... And the DM just ignored them, including not giving them the kind of magic items they wanted, and instead giving them to the other players. The GF asked if she could changed classes so she could do more damage, but he said no. It's understandable to be upset about that, but GF and Bill clearly took their frustration waaaay too far. It sounds like OP and GF were just not a good fit for each other too, which just added further fuel to the fire. OP seems like he was convinced he could bring GF around to how he thought she should be playing, despite her repeatedly protesting otherwise.
GF and Bill acted like passive (and not-so-passive) aggressive tools, but the OP did not do himself any favors by repeatedly ignoring their feedback about the kind of gameplay they wanted to have. Like with the two towers, the better way to do it would have been to mix the two styles, with a puzzle, combat, puzzle, combat, etc, with the puzzles not being too complex so that the flow can keep moving.
I'm stunned the group didn't fall apart faster with how the two groups were talking past each other.
@@Draeckon yeah pretty much, everybody sucked here
@@Draeckon Did you watch the whole video? At the end, DM explains that GF chose to stay a rogue and continued playing rogues in subsequent campaigns. GF sounds like an impossible-to-please person
"Honey, I want to kill it."
"it's a wild rabbit, Beth!"
"So? it exists. So I wanna kill it."
For the OP: I see a lot of self defeating talk man, I think you did fine for a first session dm. It really is a learning experience and I hope you give yourself room to grow and look forward to never stop learning
Honestly, though it's a bit shity for players to look up the solution to a riddle or puzzle the DM puts forth, I understand where that stems from and get it. I think there is a realistic difference between what a character would know, and a player. I played Wizards that are more intelligent than I will ever be, clerics more wise than I'll ever be, and Sorcerers more charismatic than I will ever be. So when a GM put a puzzle in front have a party and expect them as players to solve it, that doesn't always translate well. Though in those cases, it is best to after a Time allow players to make knowledge rolls or Stat rolls to allow their characters to get directions or instructions based on how realistically the character would know how to solve the puzzle or riddle or what have you
It sounded like GF and Bill just full-stop checked out and refused to even try making knowledge or INT rolls, though. They just saw that the other two guys wanted to do it, and left them to it, while in the first puzzle probably actively making it *harder* by killing off their chess pieces super-fast in order to ignore everything and screw around on their phones. Removing pieces from a chess-board is a surefire way to make it harder for that side to win, after all. Given that Bill was playing a Wizard, he probably *could have* made knowledge checks, but it seems like he saw Marine and Gajiro going at the puzzle with their OOC understanding of how it worked, and didn't even bother. The people playing the Wizard who should've had the INT and/or Arcana skill to help, and the Rogue who should've likewise had skills that could've gone toward helping, both seemed to actively refuse to participate.
@@Mokiefraggle oh I agree with your general assessment of this specific circumstance. My comments were more in response to Simply the last couple lines of the video. That being it's shity to look up answers to puzzles. Because I have seen too many GM's try and force puzzles into a game that the players have to solve without understanding that there is some separation in skill sets between a player and their character. I think the worst example I can remember is when someone I knew tried putting linguistic puzzles in front of their players using a language they were trying to invent. With no rolls or anything that would allow their characters Superior knowledge has to help out. And hell, in that situation, there was no way they could look up the answer anyways.
>" I met her an anime convention."
Well, there's your first problem.
i know right? at a gaming con, for some reason, a group of 3 dudes were trying to pick me up. yes i was overweight at the time. no they weren't that hideous. it just felt weird even if i wasn't seeing anyone. i was like no i gotta go.
@@asarishepard8171 A convention is the most likely place nerds are going to meet, so I'm not surprised a few would try to ask someone out on the basis of a shared interest in something. It's not much different than people who met at a dance club or some other social gathering. That said, "nerd culture" tends to cultivate an awkwardness in social interactions that makes doing this seem weird to the people involved. To us social outcasts, we're at this thing about nerd stuff because we like the nerd stuff not because we're looking for a date, so someone turning it into an opportunity to find a date will feel odd when it shouldn't.
"I already saw she wasn't the most stable" still tries to date her, really queen?
I remember the first time I tried going to an anime convention, I thought it would be a good way to make some friends.
Instead I got a healthy reminder of my place in the form of an anxiety attack.
All the people blaming the OP for all the problems in this story clearly missed how bratty and disrespectful GF and Bill were acting throughout the whole thing. Remember that OP was new to DMing at the time, and we have the luxury of viewing this from an outside perspective.
I'll be honest, I felt uncomfortable reading this. The GF sounds toxic and borderline abusive, beyond the DM-player expectations mismatch they obviously had here.
I agree, if she was like this with just dnd I believe she was equally critical and mean in other areas if their relationship.
The mistake was not asking new players what kind of character that want to play. If they say I want fuck shit up and kill things then you could say ok a rogue is not that
and if they keep killing things and don't like riddles, never roleplay etc. just do a dungeoncrawler
Rogue can be very Killy with the right Subclass just tell em how.
I keep seeing people say this, and I have to wonder if they actually played 5e.
sure, they aren't as explosive as 4.5, but rogues are definitely high damage martial characters, they are very VERY good at picking a target and making sure it dies. even with all their skill monkey and role-play tools.
and don't need much magic items to do it.
@@lighthadoqdawg I am admittedly in my only second game and have only played a first, a Tiefling Divine Soul Sorcerer and second an Orc Totem Warrior, who two hands a spear
@@lighthadoqdawg they can be if you build them and play them right at mid to higher levels, not so much starting off... It's very clear that the player wanted to go in and smash things, that's not a rogue. I'm not talking just damage. That's a fighter or barbarian because of the higher AC. She was probably constantly getting fucked because of the lower AC
Jeez, not even half way in and I'm already feeling really bad for the OP. Honestly sounds like a really good dm, trying to think outside the box and make interesting and unique encounters, and gets completely ignored because its not mindless combat.
Granted, he's dealing with new players who are not as likely to like that kind of thing.
Seems more like a group that needed a session zero.
@@Lobsterwithinternet Well 2 plays did like the puzzles, and the girlfriend complaining about her damage means they had a fair amount of combat.
Players want combat, DM doesn't understand why they're getting frustrated when he only gives them non combat encounters.
Like the whole time they're saying "we don't want puzzles, we want to be combat oriented rogue and wiz, and he just totally doesn't listen. Like if he throws more puzzles at them they'll start liking them.
This DM is the problem.
You seem to be forgetting about the players who did want puzzles.
@@darthfenrir7773 so give him the puzzles, instead of combat and give the other guys combat instead of puzzles, this is not hard. If they want to play a rogue and wizard and not be sneaky and smart, who gives a shit? The DM was constantly railroading them into a specific style of gameplay just because that's their class type.
@@mitchwilliamson5552 They did, he did puzzles but he also did combat. Gf complained she didn't like combat because she wasn't doing enough damage. Dm said to try it out for another session and gave her items she could use to score higher damage points but she ended up not using it acting like it was a pokemon battle where you get into a battle and just keep attacking until one dies.
She even repicked rouge.
Dm had 4 players, 2 murder hobos and 2 puzzle people. Him shifting between the two shouldn't have the gf and bill begin throwing a fit like a child who has to share someone else's toy.
He ran modules and instead of putting his foot down about the fact that modules have to be kinda railroady, let his party literally walk over him.
Tbh this whole story is "the dm is not very good at listening" lol
Like I'm not saying GF was a good person, I don't know her, but she repeatedly - REPEATEDLY - made it clear she was unhappy with the game and specifically why. And OP REPEATEDLY just poo'd on her issues and told her "it's fine"
She didn't want to not be hit and sneak well, or have good out of combat abilities. She clearly wanted to hit things hard. OP kept insisting she play a playstyle she didn't want, because for whatever reason he insisted she should be a rogue.
also after several riddles where GF was B-ching about how she hates those, he took her into his new game that was obviously one big riddle - it started with murder mystery ffs :D was he even able to thing anything else than riddles/puzzles into dnd?
@@histkontext Got a feeling that was his thing and he kept on pushing it on others, the classic "I love this so everyone else should too!" attitude.
@@histkontext I don’t think it’s fair to say that he took her into the second campaign when she asked to play it and he said he wasn’t done. Granted he could have told her that it was a murder mystery but it wasn’t like he forced it onto her
You seem to forget the part where she never asked to switch classes, and chose to play a rogue again later.
@@darthfenrir7773 I'm not forgetting it lol I never said she was a good person or smart in this situation lol. I'm just a forever DM and like a customer service person with their customers, I view all of them as idiots until proven otherwise. Maybe you disagree but it's the DMs job to tailor the game if they want it to be fun lol.
He probably wouldn't have been able to make her happy since she seemed pretty dumb and stubborn but actively piling puzzles and BS on top of her when she said she just wants to stab good was objectively the wrong move. That's what I'm saying.
Hoard of the Dragon Queen is new player friendly? *curls up in manic laughter*
I mean its pretty simple compared to others
I love how half of the group was interested in the puzzles and y'all really just ignore that and say he made more puzzles for no reason as if catering only to murderhobos would have been better. Also, wasn't he running a module? You can have fun with that, obviously, but like,, it's not all his shit.
Exactly, like, people are in here complaining that OP wasn't listening to GF (which he wasn't, in some cases) but their forgetting that half the other players were *enjoying* the puzzles.
But the tower was specifically a reward for the guy who DOESNT like puzzles, so giving him the puzzle dungeon that he doesn't like is more than a little backhanded.
And the tower wasn't part of the module, the DM made that himself.
“Having to read that sentence out loud made me want to rip my eyelashes out with a roll of duct tape” I laughed at this harder than I have at anything else in quiet some time, just the mental image alone is hilarious.
I'm not on their side, but GF and BIll really got shafted by those level 4 magic items.
Wave, a +3 sentient magic weapon that is in fact 4 other magic weapons rolled into one and a Horn that can summon 5d4+5 extra combatants every 7 days
Blackrazor, a +3 sentient weapon that literally destroys the souls of the things it kills, you can't be charmed or frightened. You have a life-sensing Aura around you and the sword can cast haste once a day....and they also got defender for shits and giggles.
GF gets a hat of disguise, but its worse because it's limited to 8 castings per day instead of limitless. Slippers of spider climbing and an unbreakable lockpick
Bill gets a necklace of fireball a nonrenewable resource magic item and a rod of lordly might which is a super cool melee weapon when you're not a wizard with the HP of paper.
Honestly and then there is the fact of the op proceeding to throw the two players he KNOWS don't enjoy puzzles into the puzzle tower while the kill stuff tower they would have enjoyed more has the two players who actually enjoy the puzzles.
I feel bad for him. The hardest thing to do when you have close friends and significant others playing your game is to tell them no. You mistakenly wanna make it fun for them, but you always end up stressing yourself till it's no longer fun for you.
Fortunately my two current groups are very. "your the God of this world, if you say no, I'll rework shit to fit your design." it makes playing fun, and it makes DMing easy. I tell them I'm running a murder mystery with little to no combat. I see nothing but skill cows and divination magic.
I'm halfway through, and the gf got absolutely shafter when it comes to magic items. This guy gave her some uncommon items while everyone else was getting legendary or artifacts. I'm sure she's gonna be toxic, but I would be fuming too
There comes a point when someone blowing up your campaign isn't them being a problem player, it's the last refuge of a frustrated player trying to get a point across. Sounds like she hit that point.
Absolutely disagree, the level of rarity means dick all. The other party members only got things that are useful in combat. The rogue got a huge buff to pretty much everything she can do in and out of combat. Running up walls and disguising herself as other baddies greatly boosts her ability to autocrit with surprise attacks.
Out of combat, no normal lock can ever hold her back AND she can scale anything by walking up it, AND she can impersonate anyone she sees. Any rogue with a hint of creativity would love this kit.
@@frigginresulrum when your player specifically asks for magic items because they want to do more damage, giving them items that do nothing to improve the damage numbers does not actually help them, if you then add insult to injury by giving other people absolutely broken magic weapons that will spike their damage even more, well any player would get pissed off at that, that particular part was not the GF fault, that was entirely on the GM for ignoring what his player wanted to be doing.
that's not to say that the GF did nothing wrong, by all means she probably should have played something else, like a paladin or something, but for this particular instance she is not to blame.
@@Daredhnu I think even if she played another class things wouldn't change much.
She didn't expect to deal more damage she wanted to deal the MOST damage, even with a more combative class there's a chance she would still be annoyed for not being the strongest character in the group
@@Ne-ne7qo Oh I agree with that assessment, the GF sounded like a bad player in general, but this particular case was definitely the fault of the GM.
Honestly DM’s homebrew sounded like fun. I hope he didn’t get rid of his campaign notes so he could eventually work more on it.
And so, when the mortal realm needed him the most, the Monarch of Crustaceans returns...
He's not my king. 🦞👎
@@Lobsterwithinternet shaking and crying rn smh-- how could you s a y such a thing?
@@notanalien5496 Kind of obvious, isn't it?
@@Lobsterwithinternet I meant, like, on a moral standpoint but *surely* the Lobster and Crab kingdoms can coexist, no?
@@Lobsterwithinternet shaking and crying rn
what's wrong with you lobster???
3:20 Can we take a moment to talk about people wishing to switch character that can't figure any way other than KILLING THEM?! I had a *pretty traumatic* session where a player left the table by having their character walk into the night and swim in waters full of sea-demon, trying to board a demon/plague ridden ship. This was actually a suicide.
Also, they *didn't warn anybody*, so the other players were pretty upset that they thought it was going to end well...
She asked, he denied her, can't blame her for not wanting to be forced into a character just so DM could have more than one person doing his favorite things in the world, Puzzles and riddles.
@ Well, OP stated these were two occurrences of puzzle-based sessions while the overall campaign was predominantly battle-based (at least 5 sessions between each sub-stories, he said).
Also (once again, from what OP said at 14:20) she was indecisive about changing her character and dropped the idea at the third session. Don't know about you, but I can't really get the gist of my class' evolution at lvl1.
Yes there were issues, but we also have to remember that this is a condensed story, that stuffs happens, both in-game, at the table and outside of it between the events happening. It seems outrageous and terrible from nearly everybody because we're not told the many times where things went more normally.
DM in a nutshell:
Girlfriend says "I want chocolate ice cream."
DM says "Cool, cool, but hey what you really want to eat is vanilla ice cream. That stuff is amazing so I'm just going to keep throwing vanilla ice cream at you until you enjoy it as much as me."
It's no wonder they split up.
I do agree the DM could've done it better but in the end, she did choose rouge a second time and I don't believe the Girlfriend tried the vanilla Ice cream,
Its more like she says she wants chocolate, picks up vanilla, complains that is isnt chocolate and blames the others for it, and then when the option to get the ice cream she really wanted arises she says *no I wont take it*.
The dm couldve listened better but she chose to ignore her class options that allow her to deal the damage she wanted and then when she had the opportunity to switch session 3 she decided against it and then proceeded to play rogue for the rest of her tabletop career. How is this DM's fault? He didnt even pick the class for her. she looked through every class knowing she wanted to do big number and *chose* rogue.
She's an entitled idiot
reality:
Bf worked all day handmaking vanilla ice cream, trying out his cooking skills as cooking is his favourite past time. Invites gf to eat his ice cream.
Gf: eww wtf? its not chocolate?
"We started on Horde of the Dragon Queen." Noooo!
This comment is going to be too long.
(tldr: no two dms are the same, and someplayers put too much expectation on the dm to cater to them)
dm,s and players are all learning all the time. not all dms run games the same way, there are blatent mistakes from the dm, but there are also lots of players who start a game thats closer to a zelda like puzzley game but what they want is a diabloesque crawl. dont get mad at the consol or the game either play and learn or politly be like sorry not the game for me. as a DM i do ask what my players want out of a game but sometims what they want is impracticle. basically what im saying is that a DM is to be seen as a video game console and the games unless home brewd arnt even made by them so theyre like cartridges. you cant blame the console for your problem with the cartridge. pluss players really seem to think that all dnd is suposed to be the same as all dnd. DMs all run things differently. im not mat mercer i dont want to be mat mercer, im also not dan harmon i dont want to be dan harmon. i had a player brand new to the game when i first started dming. she decided after that night to start watching critical role, from then on she was this "expert on all things dnd" would say things like "thats not how mat would have run that" or my favorite "when i kill a monster you have to say how do you do this" no i can say discribe the kill, i can say how does he die, i can say adn thats that for that, i can even describe the kill myself in cases of certain spells and if the creature is even in view like if somebody fired a spell wildly into the dark. the charachter doesnt even know what theyre killing how would they know how its dying what limbs it has if it has any. iom sure nobodys going to read this lol.
I'm so sad the guy stopped writing his murder mystery campaign. That sounded cool! It's a shame how crappy people can kill a passion for something in other people.
This is undoubtably the fault of the DM. His players wanted a different game than what he was creating and he knew that. He still continued on with it because he wanted to and now he is blaming the players for not enjoying what they already made clear they didnt enjoy (multiple times). If it was his "passion" he should find people who actualy like this way of playing and not force it on people who obviously dont. It doesnt make you a crappy person to like playing dnd in one way or another. It does make you one if you blame people for not playing Dnd the way you want it to be played.
I mean, to be fair most of this post is pretty much exclusively on him. Who the hell randomly springs *chess* on their friends during a game of D&D? Especially ones that explicitly made it clear they wanted a combat heavy power fantasy? And why would you invite those players to a campaign that you know is primarily going to be puzzle-solving or roleplaying?
@@MiniRockSafariMann that one isnt on him tho. his girlfriend found out he was writing that campaign and told him to play it with her.
@@the_homun_system But did he explain it wasn't combat heavy?
I feel Communication broke down here or was never there to begin with between them, probably a reason for their breakup too.
He clearly wanted something different to her and after he shot her down early on she just went along for the ride while he refused to hear what her and Bill (Half of the players) kept telling him.
@@MiniRockSafariMann Dm had 2 murder hobos and 2 puzzle players.
The sessions had enough combat for gf to complain so much about her damage, but when the other 2 players go their share of the session bill and gf throw fits.
Gf wanted more damage.
Dm offered items which if you think or plan for 2 seconds, you can find ways to use to increase damage.
Gf didn't fit rouge type, but kept playing it and even picked it again.
Sounds more like gf and bill only wanted what they wanted or else they threw a fit
That final rant was perfect. That’s exactly what I was thinking when the OP said they looked up the answer on their phones
the more i hear about dnd, the good and the bad stuff, the more curious i get about what it would be like to play. doubt i'd ever find a place for that but i can always dream and listen to other's stories, lol. it's a lot of fun :p thanks for these videos, joy to listen in the background while drawing. the way you read the stories is so nice, not too fast nor too slow and keeps me entertained for a long time :)
I had a Player in my first group, who looked up the answer for a riddle from the DM.
The DM caught on and punished him with enough damage to put made him unconscious despite a sucessfull saving throw.
Than he changed the riddle and warned us, out of character, that the next cheater would get killed.
Some people like D&D for the combat, others for the potential storytelling. I don't think people that doesn't engage with the story are qualified to say OP doesn't know who’s to write a good story!
I literally built my character 90% for combat, yet some of my favorite moments in our campaign are out of combat. Sure, we have a number of memorable combat moments too, but the roleplaying is definitely the highlight of DnD for me. I want to hit hard when I need to, but it's fun to be the bumbling sorcerer who is just trying to do the right thing. And since most of my build is for combat, there usually isn't much I have to look at my sheet for when I'm roleplaying, which for me makes that part of the game more smooth and enjoyable, and it makes combat quite explosive when we need to do lots of damage.
The ocean sounds in the background just make these vids just *chef's kiss* 🤌
“No no, just keep doing it my way. You’ll eventually have fun with the way you keep telling me isn’t fun for you.”
13:50
13:36
Listen to the full story before acusing people
How does someone who learned DnD from 4e think Rogues aren't high damage combat characters?
Is anyone a high damage combat character at level 1?
@@shoopydoopy6062 melee combatants for the most part...everyone else comes into their power later on in levels.
idk 4e but in 5e they are noth that high damage.
@@kuroshinigami9143 not at level 1, but fighters, barbarians and rogues quickly start scaling over magic users in damage until they get fireball etc.
especially with synergistic feats. a ranged fighter at 5th level can average 92 damage with a longbow in the first round of combat if all their attacks hit.
I know I play a bow rogue and outside of the paladin critting and throwing a smite on it, my character does the most damage with a single hit. Catch is, I only GET one hit a turn.
*picks rogue*: why am I not a level 20 wizard?
That's not something we can really blame on the GF here, her toxicity and passive-aggressive behavior aside. They were all new to 5E from how the story was told, so clearly GF didn't grasp how the class really worked - nor did the DM, for that matter, if he firmly believed she _had_ to be sneaky, sneaky to get her Sneak Attack... Which in 5E is more like Advantage Attack, since you just need to have Advantage to benefit from it, not necessarily be stealthing.
She even asked if she could change classes to something that did do more damage and the DM told her no. Yeah she went way too far with her anger, but the DM is not blameless here.
@@Draeckon He asked her to give the class a chance when she wanted to kill the character off after the first session, from what he said he would have let her change if she had asked again but she didn't and even chose to play Rogue again in a different campaign. Did the GM make misstakes? Lots of them, and bad ones too but as far as I can see from the story he mostly did them honestly trying to give his players a good time.
@@Rohrae yeah, seems most people didn't make it to the end. Plus, from what I understand, she was playing a rogue and did basically everything to avoid getting sneak attacks, then complained about her damage. Which makes you wonder what the hell she was thinking picking it...
@@theapexsurvivor9538 No kidding. It's not even that hard to get Sneak Attack, and yet she not only did everything to avoid it, she also got mad when he gave her gear that would make it *easier* to get it!
@@Rohrae I don't get this whole "she played rogue in a different campaign so obviously that's not the problem" thought process. Like do you play the same class.jn every single campaign you play? Maybe in THAT campaign rogue was the type of character she wanted. But from her actionS and reactions I would say rogue is not what she wanted to play in THIS campaign.
Aw...OP...I'm sorry she did you wrong. I feel you. I've been there! And, good luck in your future relationships and DM engagements!
Yeah this sounds like mainly the DM's fault, It is never a good idea to make the players feel like nothing they do matters cause the DM will just magically make them survive or win. Giving them more puzzles and scenarios that the players have expressed their dislike for .... Not saying it's all his fault, but DM really didn't help himself out at all.
Also Hoard of the Dragon Queen... really? there's your big problem right there. That is one of the worst official campaigns there is.
I also think it's a matter of group, clearly the DM is somebody who likes puzzles, and mysteries, and didn't want to run a game that was all combat, while the girlfriend only seemed to care about combat.
Yes the DM didn't listen, but at the same time he didn't want to do an all combat game, the best thing would be find another group.
@@danielmbg It wasn't that they just wanted combat, they wanted combat that THEY specifically were just going to be OP at and can just face-smash with. They started with complaining about how the rogue, the rouge, one of the highest DPS characters if played marginally well, wasn't doing enough damage to her liking.
Couple that with the boots of spider climb, you're laughin.
And the wizard complaining about damage when they are literally playing a high burst damage class.
They didn't give the game a chance before complaining constantly, and if they just want to be powerful from the very start, play a videogame and modify values or use strong mods.
@@danielmbg From the sound of it, there was a metric ton of combat (OP mentioned that most of these scenarios were separated by 5+ sessions of basically pure combat), with a few puzzle-based scenarios that appealed to the two non-murderhobo players. Please keep in mind, the girlfriend wasn't the only player, nor was Bill. Sounds more like OP was just trying to throw a bone to the players who liked mental challenges in addition to the slaughter of everything that moves, including her seducing NPCs just to try murdering them in their sleep.
I honestly think the GF might've had some *serious* issues, outside of apparently just wanting to be Erythnul incarnate.
I summon all the D&D people who got into D&D because of their significant other but now genuinely loves it.
Maybe some of us are even a little obsessed and has made their significant other proud by making obscure references and overall being a complete D&D dork! Maybe you relate and maybe I'm projecting.
Either way let's show off all the great D&D players who started as significant others to the DM or whatever and are really great players and DMs now. Let's bring in some positivity!
Hands in or thumbs. It's group huddle time! Reply or like or ignore me. I have no control over what you do. It would be cool if you did though.
My boyfriend got my into D&D this summer. Have been really enjoying it ever since but find it hard to get really into it or know the mechanics like the back of my hand. Can still enjoy it though.
Boyfriend got me into it very soon after meeting him 3 years ago 😅 skip forward to now and I’ve turned into an absolute dice goblin, am one of the official campaign artists for our game, and am playing in 3 games a week, two of which are run by that boyfriend, all of which are extremely roleplay-heavy
I'll throw in here. My now-fiance introduced me (and several of our friends) to D&D back at our local community college, way-the-heck back in 2004, and I love the heck out of it. We've traded DM duties back and forth since, and introduced one another to tons of other RPGs over the years, but we always come back to D&D. It's amazing the kind of things that happen when two nerds meet in a creative writing class where they're some of the only ones there to actually, y'know, write creatively. (No joke, there were only five of us in that class who were there because we were interested in improving our writing skills. Everyone else basically said they were doing it for the credits and didn't want to have to read our long-ass stories to give actual constructive criticism. It was the most mind-numbing class ever, and the only good thing that came out of it was the five of us becoming friends.)
Lmao she how many times told him she wanted to kill big time, here take these items so you never have to fight.... and hes confused why she wasnt enjoying it, dude you literally white knighted your own gf's imaginary rouge... just let her have fun if she wants to kill let her bloom.
I was thinking the same thing. He clearly knew what she wanted and instead he gave EVERYONE else cool weapons and her items that specifically didn't fit what she wanted to do. That's the most passive aggressive middle finger a DM can give AND she's his GF.
simp
I agree with you but that's a very arbitrary use of white knight
Problem here - If I got that correctly- was her not wanting to use sneak attack damage.
What a simp
She reminds me of my ex who also played a rogue but never played like a rogue. Constantly got knocked out and would blame it on a terrible campaign.
Something isn't adding up here. If she's a rogue she should be doing tons of damage unless DM is making it hard to accomplish. If she's not using it herself then he should explain how to use it. By 5th level she WOULD have been doing the most damage if DM hadn't given super OP weapons to the martials. I suspect the DM was railroading and manipulating the entire time and the 2 "problem" players would have a very different version of events.
He said later that she was playing in ways that made her not get sneak attack. Which honestly as someone who loves rogues makes me angry. The whole point of them in melee is to be the one to stab the enemy in the back while everyone else draws fire. If you don't work with the mechanics of your class, you will suck. It would be like a barbarian refusing to ever rage or multi attack then whining that the fighter who uses multi attack and second wind constantly is outdoing you. Yeah, if you don't use the skills that make up the key features of your class, you will suck. If you want to murderhobo (I have a few campaigns like this) that's fine, but don't blame your inept playing on your class. Like, honestly, it sounds like she just didn't understand that if she wanted to hit hard, she had to make sure she got that sneak attack or just didn't want to listen.
@@AppleStrawberryLove Think about it, there are 2 other characters that are melee and simply having one of those adjacent to your target gets you sneak attack. She'd have to actively go out of her way not to get it most of the time. Why would she do that if she wanted to do big damage and knowing that it is easily done almost all tbe time. What this guy is saying happened doesn't add up. Add to that all of his obvious passive-aggressive moves (not allowing her to switch characters, giving super weapons to the guys that are already somehow doing more damage than the rogue and her crap she wouldn't want, constantly framing the game how he wanted it played that at least 2 players didn't like, etc.) makes me pretty sure he's at a minimum twisring the truth and leaving important details out. Given the ease of getting sneak attack by RAW coupled with his other behaviors, I'm betting he was manipulating the rules so as not to grant it. His story also gives telltale signs that he's manipulative and controlling. I don't buy this story as it's presented at all.
@@PsychoMike21000 That's your prerogative. I think you're twisting it to what you think it must be like. But from experience: most controlling people will not later admit they were wrong. They will continue to say that you were wrong or manipulate things. Yet throughout the story, he admits freely what he did wrong looking back. So forgive me if I think you are stretching hard to make things fit your idea of how it went. But based off of her attitude about the entire game... I lean more towards she'd have equal problems with any character she played because she essentially wanted to play a video game that autoaims and you just hit a button. Because I'll give you a hint: I've been in groups where majority were anime nerds. They can be really bad, depending on the people, about just wanting it to be like Final Fantasy but with dice. Just run up and whack and kill and go. So, I read those things and saw the attitudes and went "Oh, I know what she's thinking... mmm... not a good fit for DnD."
@@AppleStrawberryLove I don't have "an idea of how it went," I'm just sure we're not hearing the whole truth. As for manipulative and controlling people not admitting they made mistakes, I'm not sure you know how manipulation works. He tells a one-sided story that doesn't add up but admits to a few minor mistakes all the while making it sound like the mistakes were innocent. He doesn't address the elephant in the room. For example when he "admits" it was a mistake to give out powerful items, he doesn't address that the items he gave out specifically magnified the problem or that the items he gave his GF were significantly less useful (seriously what does an unbreakable lock pick matter unlezs the DM is saying your pick broke whenever you fail a check). Somehow, all the while that he "admits" to mistakes, he always portrays his GF and the other dude as the actual problem. It's a classic manipulation tactic: I made this minor but well-intentioned mistake but the real problem is how the other side acted/reacted. All you really need to lnow to question this story is that the Rogue wasn't doing much damage (despite that being the most important thing to them), and that she didn't often use sneak attack (how is that even possible with RAW and 2 melee party members).
@@PsychoMike21000 She *did* actively go out of her way to not get sneak attack. OP says "She would go out of her way to fight enemies herself to feel powerful, sleep with NPCs just to kill them in their sleep and split from the party to start combat." 8:19, shortly after the Deck of Many Things is brought up. She wasn't going after enemies that the Barbarian or Fighter had engaged, but rather was choosing to ignore them in favor of taking on enemies solo, or even actively leaving the party to find combat on her own. She also apparently didn't want anything to do with using stealthy tactics (she said she "Wasn't a fan of sticking to the shadows," as OP points out in one of the edits later, in addition to ignoring that the items he gave her were great for stealthy Rogue tactics), so she was apparently actively neutering her Rogue abilities.
Man crit crab has the best dnd story videos on yt if you see this crab love you man
Notification Gang, where you at!
17:24: BRO I FEEL YOU. WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT. It’s the ultimate disrespect to a DM. I’m fortunate I have an amazing group of people to run with. Campaign has been going for 2 years strong.
GF: "I want a sword to do damage"
DM: "Heres a cloak, now stick to the shadows"
lmao bro gave her the "back to kitchen" D&D style
she didn't ask for a sword, first off.
she just whined that her damage was low, while playing the class that does the most damage at melee without magic items at early levels.
and more than likely she'd of gotten a dagger or rapier anyway. the best dex-based weapons aren't short swords.
This DM essentially just blames everything on allowing OP items. Blaming overpoweredness on the items and complains about how players didn't like his puzzles. 5e is by far the easiest to homebrew and balance. If their items are too strong, rebalance the encounter to make sure it becomes a little more challenging. This takes minimal effort. Now as a DM, I always help new players with making characters. This is to make sure they pick a class they like. His girlfriend clearly did not know what she picked and OP was of no help trying to find her a character she did like. Now shoving puzzles down the players throats when they don't like puzzles or mysteries is just incompetence. He's not seeing eye to eye with the players, nor interested in what they want out of a campaign. He just tries to force his likes onto them.
he knew they hate puzzles and after they just asked about his new game, even when he knew it is just one big puzzle - he did not even told them the game is not combat focused :D very strange how they did not loved the murder mystery...
Hell most normals and non RPG players do not think "Hooded figure who stabs people in the back" when they hear the word "Rogue" they are more likely thinking of a Han Solo type of Dashing Rogue sort of thing.
is it any wonder the GF got pissed, especially when he pushed her to keep playing it (made her feel she had no choice thus never brought it up again) gave out cool gear to the other players (Gave her more crap that is about RP and less combat focused) and then pulls that mystery game out his ass on her, hell I bet he didn't even say there is almost no combat in it and probably said "Yeah there is some combat" if asked about it, lying just to get them to play the game he wanted them to play.
I would have changed the answer to the riddle when they Googled it. Even if it didn't make sense. Just for the sake of spitefulness.
I get the feeling thats why the GF was acting that way, spite for being forced into playing a characters she no longer wanted to be.
@ 13:50
Saaaame xD Actually did that ones with my classmates (wasn't a dnd game, just a "riddle game" to pass the time) couse I hate cheaters. The thing I came up with made no sense, at all, but it was totaly worth it xD
@ She could have just stopped playing in the campaign you know. Unless someone forced her
I've learned the hard way that no DND is better than toxic DND.
Also session 0 you have to ask people what they expect out of the game and get everyone to understand the tone you're going for. Genre as well but that's only as game breaking as you let it be.
That lesson is hard, you just have to start searching for a new group.
Gf: I'm not dealing enough damage!
GM: Multiclass with a better damage dealing class!
Nah not really a multiclass dude mabie play a pal or a barb
@@codyholley Rogue Paladins can be terrifying. Sneak attack and smite means nighty night.
@@kronos1794 nah always been non multiclass guy (except prestige class and epic destiny)
@@codyholley you're missing out!
@@kronos1794 less complicated that way
“I’m not doing a lot of damage” “I see, here have a cloak of disguise self and a cool lock pick. Meanwhile fighter and Barbarian yall get some of the strongest weapons in the game and Wizard you get extra fireballs!””
Bruh
Yeah that was the worst part he forced them into situations they didn't like. (I mean a lot of them sounded not so good but it was avoidable) He gave a big middle finger to his GF with those items. I have played rouge before they can deal really high damage. I mean the sneak attacks helps for sure but two handed style rouge etc... can be so good. should just said sure roll up another character.
A fucking hafling rogue will NEVER do the most damage in that party. Learn how to roll a fuckin character
@@pudgebonetv9628 depending on the stats rolled and what yiu take a Halfling rouge can. Duel wielding Sneak attack on top of getting items that increase your damage and amount of attacks it is possible. Any race can do any class provider they roll well
man this really feels like one of those stories where everyone is the bad guy. OP wasn't listen to anybody and trying to railroad them into doing what he wanted and GF and bill just seemed to be generally toxic that guys
They were only toxic after he pulled his boner for puzzles and riddles out, kind of reeks of "Oh I am so smart for putting riddles and puzzles in"
I can understand Bill and GF getting pissed because it makes them seem dumb especially if he was pulling the "Oh come on its easy (repeats riddle with no extra clues) see I know you have been sitting here for 20 minutes listening to the other 2 have fun but this is fun right? RIGHT!"
I would be pissed too if I was denied a character change, then pressured and forced into Riddle and puzzles just for DM's own jollies, if he wants them so bad why doesn't he play a game with that.
Never force players to do stuff they don't want to do, it makes the game no fun for them and they get bitter then might lash out, as what happened here.
@ Where did you get that he refused to let her change characters?
@@darthfenrir7773 after the first session she asked for a new character and he insisted she stick with it
@ maybe they accualy are dumb? sure sounds like this from the story
How was OP railroading? They included riddles because half the group actually enjoyed them. Bill and gf were the ones acting like children whenever they were asked to use their brains.
GF: Asks for magic items to do more damage.
DM: Gives the other players legendary weapons to turn them into living gods. Gives GF a magic lockpick.
GF: But I want to kill things!
DM: Here's an disguise cloak. Now you don't have to fight at all!
GF: Alright, give me combat encounters, I want to feel badass.
DM: No, you are sneaky thief. Here's your encounter: sneak thru this corridor, disarm a trap and pick a lock.
That is true that he did favor the others with nice weapons
He should’ve just let her reroll for a new class/character. I like being sneaky and avoiding fights when I can, but I understand that’s not everyone’s cup of tea. So why force her to stay as that class?
Yes, ripping my eyelashes out with a roll of duck tape is also my go to when I am flung into a fit of rage. Lmao it made my laugh. Keep up the good work. :)
The girlfriend wanted to play as a warlock by the sound of it.
OP is kinda dumb thinking his girlfriend who complained about not doing damage would like not being given a weapon
pretty much this. Like, he already knew she didn't like exploring those aspects of the rogue class, and just doubled down on giving her items that would make her better at things she wasn't enjoying. Plus, in comparison to some of that other loot she did get kind of gypped.
@@yvesorzel4168 Honestly his whole post came off as a "If they don't have fun the way I do they aren't having fun right!" bitchfest to me. Yeah, having people repeatedly complain about your campaign is draining AND he gave in to them a little with the magic items, but the core of his problem is he completely ignored half of his group because they didn't like playing the way he liked playing. And with him not sharing 90% of the supposed relationship problems he had with her due to it "not fitting the subreddit", we can't even be sure she was toxic in the relationship. I'm not saying he's lying to make himself look good and make people agree with him, but it sure as hell feels like he's not giving us the full truth about the situation and is expecting nothing but a rousing fellating for sharing his story about how he failed utterly as a DM because he couldn't be assed to give a fuck about two of his players, one of whom he was dating.
Also his defence for her not changing class was dumb as hell. "Oh I would've let her change, she obviously just didnt want to!" No dumbass, you FORCED her into playing rogue. You refused to let her change when she realized she wanted to be something different after a session of playing rogue, and whenever she asked for you to fix her problem you gave her more stuff a rogue player would enjoy and said "figure it the fuck out". If she played a rogue in future campaigns its likely due to a sense of inevitability of being forced to be a rogue you fostered by ignoring her needs as a player or due to a fear of failure in execution of other classes because all she knew was rogue features and everyone else already knew how to play their preferred characters. A small part of it may have been due to liking her character's development so far (even if she didn't roleplay at all apparently to you), but most of the attachment to something like that is usually out of a fear of "what if things go worse" and a sunken cost fallacy mindset. A good DM doesn't force someone to play with a character they decided they aren't having fun with; it's all too easy to love a concept but hate how it executes in-game and fall into a character trap that makes you utterly miserable, especially for new players, and if you're running a first campaign for people, you should have a couple of quick-start sheets for different classes made up ready for them to plug in the race/background they want should they want to try something new mid-first session because being able to probe all the classes and get a rough idea of what they do lets players more readily find the gameplay niches they enjoy.
Honestly, as a DM I'm just sitting here utterly gobsmacked that this asshole thinks other DM's would pat him on the back for his blatant and flagrant disregard for the happiness of first time DND players.
Honestly never believe rpg horror stories unless they have reciepts, take them as entertainment. And in this case it just wasnt very entertaining cause the solutions is right there.
@@greasysmith3150 honestly this is a great take. Every time I read one I almost always side with the "problem player" lol. The OPs always just tell the story in such a way that makes them seem like more of a problem half the time. Good entertainment though regardless.
Christ, just let her play a fighter or a barbarian, she clearly doesn't want to play a rogue. At the same time don't get rolled over with everything else to compensate for forcing her to play a rogue.
If you'll direct your attention to the 13:50 mark, you might notice that the gf seemed to no longer want to switch by the third session.
@@darthfenrir7773 Or just got tired of asking unsuccessfully / got promised magic items that would make her damage go up a lot (therefore her main problem, the lack of damage would be gone), so stopped asking. (And then got magic items that didn't do crap to her damage, while others got epic weapons. )
Plus, I really don't think forcing her to wait longer to switch is a good thing if she already clearly said she wants to switch, and he knew that she will never get to her goal & deal the most damage out of the group as a rouge.
I felt the same way, but then she ended up playing rogue later. It almost seems like she liked the idea of rogue but wanted fighter/barbarian damage
Honestly my head-canon is that you are just a giant sentient crab in real life.
I mean, she wasn't wrong about the wizards name being cringe, and with her clear intent to do damage and combat giving everyone else weapons but only her a out of combat item seems. If I had been bummed about being lame in combat and asked for my DM to help and they gave every one else combat stuff and me something entirely different, id feel pretty disrespected. I dunno.. not to dog pile OP.. but this is session zero stuff.. understanding and communicating player expectations and GM expectations.
Yeah, this sounds like a nightmare game, but it's as much on OP as GF. If she tells you she wants to play a damage dealer it's just not cool to railroad her into being a sneaky support character.
didn't the story say he was a newer DM? bet you'd make mistakes too
@@omnical6135 He didnt seem to learn from mistakes, though. Apart from the obvious mistake of starting multiple campaigns with toxic players, these players constantly made it very clear they were interested in murder and only murder, yet he keeps pushing riddles and mysteries on them. The group dynamic probably would have worked a lot better if he had made a monster hunter-esque campaign instead of a murder mystery.
@@2MeterLP yeah you're right
@@2MeterLP i agree
@@2MeterLP I definitely agree with you. However, I just want to point out that he didn't write the murder mystery for that group. his fault there was being a pushover and not speaking his mind early on by saying "I don't think you're gonna enjoy this campaign because it's mainly puzzles and RP" and then if she insisted, she'd obviously be at fault. but he was writing the campaign for himself. he clearly doesn't see the appeal of combat heavy RP, so he should've just stopped playing with the GF and Bill