THANK YOU 16MM FILMS FOR THE POSITIVE COMMENT . I GREW UP IN THE VALLEY AND LOVE MY COMMUNITY . I MADE THESE FILMS TO REMIND PEOPLE OF THE VALLEY THAT WE STILL HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER THE NATION AND OUR FUTURE GENERATIONS . JOSEPH NAPIER SR
Nape1962 Hey Nape1962 love your videos on Youngstown lived there for a little bit before moving to NC was wondering if you could post videos on Youngstown after black Monday and through the 1980s thanks so much please keeping posting these awesome videos!
I lived on 4th st in struthers ohio as a kid, it was a short walk to walton street where at the bottom of the hill where the 2 office buildings and also the main gate fir the sheet and tube plant. As a kid we snuck in a broken window of a lavoratory and treated the abandoned building as a huge fort! Very strange tho... Lunch boxes, hard hats, and other day to day items littered the place! Like one day they came to work and halfway thru the day were told to go home!
I can remember riding my bike down to cener st.you could watch the Mills from the bridge.. sometimes I would see my Dad down below and wave to him... the Mills are gone...and so is my Dad.😟
after watching this video, read about the Weirton Steel plant in WV. It was bought out by the employees in the early 80s through an ESOP. For the first 5 years was profitable, likely due to the tax incentives. after that they struggled and usually lost money-with employee ownership. Continual rounds of layoffs and in 2003-205 time frame they went bankrupt. purchased by a foreign company, eventually became a finishing plant with about 900 employees, down from 13,000 plus. all of these plants had to modernize to remain competitive and no matter when they did it, that modernization meant decimation of jobs. the workers actually milked it longer than the investors.
Today an ABC News Correspondent (a Disney subsidiary) wouldn’t be allowed to report on labor issues, and certainly not anything reflective of the negative role of large corporation in America.
Many of my uncles and aunts moved down south when this happened...some I haven't seen in almost 2 decades now. I'm sure I'm not the only one who can say this.
I live about a half a mile from the remains of this mill. One of the big reasons this mill went under was a lack of modernization. By 1977 the year this mill closed the steel making technology in this mill was so old the only other place you could find this was the Detroit museum of steel industry. The first B.O.F furnace in America went online in Indiana in 1959. This mill in 1977 was still using open hearth which is the Bessemer process. That steel making technology was already outdated for years. Now Everytime the company tried to implement this technology into the mill they ran into a problem with the unions.
I drove across Detroit every day for work from east to west. It's sad to see all those broken down factories, mills, etc. That mill is probably pretty eerie looking.
If Youngstown Sheet and Tube had installed BOFs at Campbell then the plant would have closed anyways. BOF technology didn't save Aliquippa, Duquesne, Monessen, Mingo Junction, Lackawanna, Fairfield, Cleveland West, USS South Works or WCI Warren. The only thing that would have saved Campbell was the same thing that did save Hunt Energy. That is a new electric arc furnace coupled with a new rounds caster and new finishing facility. While Warren Steel holding had a new EAF and rounds caster it did not have a modern finishing end. Campbell did have a modern finishing end but no EAF / caster operation.
Bessemer process is different from open hearth Basic oxygen is closer to Bessemer process Q-BOP even closer. What they needed was an EAF (electric arc furnace) instead - quick start up quick shut down - more efficient. This shut down was a clear example of poor management - and the workers suffered.
I can't believe there are people who actually think that the companies give two shits about them to not need some kind of outside intervention to alleviate abuse. If the companies could pay you 5 an hour they would. The unions kept people honest to a degree. They're not without their flaws but you can't put faith in the CEOs.
Even if they had modernized that plant there would not be 5000 people working there more like 500 at the most, i know tis cuz i live near a steel mill which at one time had 4000 peeps working that plant, the plant got all new tech 3 yrs ago and now only 450 people work there.
If you want to read a first hand account of what it was like on Black Monday in 1977 as well as what it was like in 1987, ( the very last day of operation at Sheet and Tube,) please get a copy of my book, “Steeltown Down,” available at Amazon Books. I worked for 43 years at both Youngstown Sheet and Tube as well as R G Steel, ( formerly WCI Steel,) and was one of the last three men at Sheet and Tube on its’ very last day and the very last employee at R G Steel on its’ last day. I write about those tragic last days as well as the machinery, their processes, the people, accidents and unfortunately, deaths I either witnessed or knew of, what it was like to go thru a 54 day semi violent strike at WCI, as well as many other experiences. If you do decide to get a copy I think you’ll get a much better understanding of how hard working and dedicated the men and women who worked there were and what a tragedy their mill closures really were.
Black Monday was a disaster. It’s worse than they could have ever imagined. Over 8000 vacant homes. Drugs, crime, corruption. It’s the cheapest area in the USA aka the poorest area in the USA. There were once160,000 people in Youngstown. Now there’s only 60,000. 40,000 of whom are below the poverty line. You killed Youngstown.
You mean to tell me that in 1977 they didn't have the technology for better video cameras? I realize they didn't have 4K, but they could've filmed in color.
How do you know that they didn't? It could have been just a B&W copy. And I can tell by the look (and the vertical lines) that it's not video anyway...it was film.
I worked at Republic Steel on Albert st. From 1973 until 1981. Sad. Thank God my Mom got me a job in Pontiac Mi. I just retired. Live in Rochester Hills Mi.
Moral of the story: when towns become dependent on corporations they lose! At the end of the day the business (in this case the steel mill) is there to make money (turn a profit) the minute they start to lose money or find ways to make more of it, they will leave that city and in its wake are thousands of families left to wonder what's next? A great example of this is what happened to GM once they left towns like Flint, Michigan in the 80's and the same fate happened to them just like what happened to Youngstown.
in the past we needed unions to pave the way for today but they have gotten out of hand with everything they say the worker should have. and we have OSHA to make sure companies don't take advantage of employees safety and workers comp.
Are unions asking for too much or are workers not valuing their own labor? OSHA steps in, in many cases, when it is too late. In the fire service, I guarantee that without my union, I would not have the necessary safety equipment for the job, I would not have enough time off to spend with my family, and I would not earn a living wage. Value your labor, join a union, and pull everyone up.
Lykes took the money and ran leaving the workers high and dry
7 лет назад+9
A corporation owes nothing to the community it is in. It's responsibility is to its share owners. That being said, in the 70s what did Youngstown do for the steel mills? Did they say hey, we know times are hard, how about a property tax abatement or a income tax holiday? Nope. Youngstown did not. At least to my knowledge.
This is exactly why every American worker should know that the owners of the corporation are always the enemy of the worker, whose interests directly conflict with the corporations interest in cutting wages to give more to the shareholders.
it didn’t matter. the “modernization” people reference was needed to keep the companies competitive, regardless if it was owned by shareholders or employees. that modernization int eh steel industry means EAF and maybe 10% of the jobs at best. the unions kept demanding and getting higher pay and benefits-why? to take as much as they could while they could, and company would rather grant that have a strike. keep kicking the can until there was nothing left.
The union threatened management to take management into they're own hands. I can't blame management for shutting everything down at once. They deserved it, especially considering what the average worker made per hour.
How much per hour did they make in 1960? My grandfather worked his whole life in the steel industry in Youngstown, was a good hard working man, saved what he could, and I certainly didn't see him rolling in dough and laughing all the way to the bank. Unfortunately the management hadn't invested in new technology to remain competitive . It seems to me that unions wouldn't have developed if business hadn't been so ruthless to employees.
Unions abused their power, I have seen in the auto industry, people sleeping or reading books in the assembly line and nobody could say anything, I'm not lying I saw it with very own eyes
the management investing in modernization would have meant job decimation as well. and guess what? a massive strike. employees could have bought the firm as an ESOP and run it as they see fit. but they’d still have to modernize. i.e., massive reduction in work force. just look at Weirton steel ESOP from this era. Fundamentally, modernization in the steel industry means far fewer workers.
80% of all venture capital...ie: manufacturing jobs is in California, Texas, and Massachusetts right now. That gives about 15% to the southern states because business men don’t like unions, and the other 5% is for us unionized northern states ie from the Great Lake states to the Midwest. You wanna know why the the later area wants $15/hr at McDonalds. Because you can’t live off of $7.25/hr, and there starving.
that guy is full or crap on the rail roads. PL&E bent over back words to serve the steel mills. they had a very big yard called gate way. its only apx 65 miles from the great lakes to youngs town. the THE PL&E ran a lot or or trains. the erie lackwana also bent over back words to serve steel mills. they also had a rail road yard in youngs town caled bair hill. the steel companys had members on the boards of the PL@E rail road and the erie lackwana rail road. the el rail road was not going to go in to conrail but the board members of steel companys also on erie lackwana told the rail road back in 1974 they were going out of business and to go in to conrail. youngstown way where the erie lackawana made its most money. the rail roads were in to coal trains in apx 1966. they would have had no problem with iron ore and line stone trains
The company didn't rape you,(In fact why do men use the term rape?)the mob was the union skimming workers dues,had mobsters as business agents,union reps, the unions back then were the mobs golden egg, so bad the govermnent had to take over the unions back then, almost every union leadership was arrested and charged (and later convicted)under the RICO act,with racketeering,extortion,mismanaging union funds,so let's not put all the blame on management,even to this day union leaderships continues to steal workers money to give to democratic politicians and lobbyist to fatten their pockets,then have the nerve to demand and/or try to force companies to do what they want only now they don't deny it and feel proud about doing it,I think you should say the union raped you and your fellow workers.
In the 1970's, the steel industry was the first to feel the sting of globalization. Look at the devastation today all through the rust belt, and the consequences could not be more clear. Capitalism has failed the working class, with men being specially burdened. I recall the peans that were sung years later, extolling the emerging service economy as the next great thing. In reality, the only thing that the service economy makes in abundance....are slaves.
Hugh Johnson...I remember "Dutch" Reagan, telling the American people what a great thing a service economy was, and what it would do for them..I remember "Willie" Clinton telling Americans how great NAFTA was and all the jobs it would create...
THANK YOU 16MM FILMS FOR THE POSITIVE COMMENT . I GREW UP IN THE VALLEY AND LOVE MY COMMUNITY . I MADE THESE FILMS TO REMIND PEOPLE OF THE VALLEY THAT WE STILL HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER THE NATION AND OUR FUTURE GENERATIONS . JOSEPH NAPIER SR
Nape1962 Hey Nape1962 love your videos on Youngstown lived there for a little bit before moving to NC was wondering if you could post videos on Youngstown after black Monday and through the 1980s thanks so much please keeping posting these awesome videos!
I lived on 4th st in struthers ohio as a kid, it was a short walk to walton street where at the bottom of the hill where the 2 office buildings and also the main gate fir the sheet and tube plant. As a kid we snuck in a broken window of a lavoratory and treated the abandoned building as a huge fort! Very strange tho... Lunch boxes, hard hats, and other day to day items littered the place! Like one day they came to work and halfway thru the day were told to go home!
Love your channel. Thank you for the work.
I can remember riding my bike down to cener st.you could watch the Mills from the bridge.. sometimes I would see my Dad down below and wave to him... the Mills are gone...and so is my Dad.😟
Good memories though!
after watching this video, read about the Weirton Steel plant in WV. It was bought out by the employees in the early 80s through an ESOP. For the first 5 years was profitable, likely due to the tax incentives. after that they struggled and usually lost money-with employee ownership. Continual rounds of layoffs and in 2003-205 time frame they went bankrupt. purchased by a foreign company, eventually became a finishing plant with about 900 employees, down from 13,000 plus. all of these plants had to modernize to remain competitive and no matter when they did it, that modernization meant decimation of jobs. the workers actually milked it longer than the investors.
My dad was one of those 5000 guys he never thought it would die
Wow,I was a steel class a driver for a German steel company.
My dad worked there as well
@@soffiahabdullahellis then your a steel mill girl you know the importance of it and lose
41 years and nothing has changed!
Today an ABC News Correspondent (a Disney subsidiary) wouldn’t be allowed to report on labor issues, and certainly not anything reflective of the negative role of large corporation in America.
No, it's only gotten worse, far worse.
Many of my uncles and aunts moved down south when this happened...some I haven't seen in almost 2 decades now. I'm sure I'm not the only one who can say this.
I live about a half a mile from the remains of this mill. One of the big reasons this mill went under was a lack of modernization. By 1977 the year this mill closed the steel making technology in this mill was so old the only other place you could find this was the Detroit museum of steel industry. The first B.O.F furnace in America went online in Indiana in 1959. This mill in 1977 was still using open hearth which is the Bessemer process. That steel making technology was already outdated for years. Now Everytime the company tried to implement this technology into the mill they ran into a problem with the unions.
I drove across Detroit every day for work from east to west. It's sad to see all those broken down factories, mills, etc. That mill is probably pretty eerie looking.
If Youngstown Sheet and Tube had installed BOFs at Campbell then the plant would have closed anyways. BOF technology didn't save Aliquippa, Duquesne, Monessen, Mingo Junction, Lackawanna, Fairfield, Cleveland West, USS South Works or WCI Warren. The only thing that would have saved Campbell was the same thing that did save Hunt Energy. That is a new electric arc furnace coupled with a new rounds caster and new finishing facility. While Warren Steel holding had a new EAF and rounds caster it did not have a modern finishing end. Campbell did have a modern finishing end but no EAF / caster operation.
Bessemer process is different from open hearth Basic oxygen is closer to Bessemer process Q-BOP even closer. What they needed was an EAF (electric arc furnace) instead - quick start up quick shut down - more efficient. This shut down was a clear example of poor management - and the workers suffered.
McDonald's works have equipment that date over 100 years old.They use the equipment today plus all the moderation keeps the plant open.
Domestic protections of American Industries was not in place, nor is it now. We manufacture minuscually.
"Route 66" had an episode with Robert Redford that took place in a foundry.
I can't believe there are people who actually think that the companies give two shits about them to not need some kind of outside intervention to alleviate abuse. If the companies could pay you 5 an hour they would. The unions kept people honest to a degree. They're not without their flaws but you can't put faith in the CEOs.
Especially when the CEOs are far, far, far removed from the community, which is what we are facing right now.
I miss Youngstown so bad.
Even if they had modernized that plant there would not be 5000 people working there more like 500 at the most, i know tis cuz i live near a steel mill which at one time had 4000 peeps working that plant, the plant got all new tech 3 yrs ago and now only 450 people work there.
derail14 what plant is this?
450 job are better then no jobs
great piece on my hometown.
Will Simon sii
If you want to read a first hand account of what it was like on Black Monday in 1977 as well as what it was like in 1987, ( the very last day of operation at Sheet and Tube,) please get a copy of my book, “Steeltown Down,” available at Amazon Books. I worked for 43 years at both Youngstown Sheet and Tube as well as R G Steel, ( formerly WCI Steel,) and was one of the last three men at Sheet and Tube on its’ very last day and the very last employee at R G Steel on its’ last day. I write about those tragic last days as well as the machinery, their processes, the people, accidents and unfortunately, deaths I either witnessed or knew of, what it was like to go thru a 54 day semi violent strike at WCI, as well as many other experiences. If you do decide to get a copy I think you’ll get a much better understanding of how hard working and dedicated the men and women who worked there were and what a tragedy their mill closures really were.
Black Monday was a disaster. It’s worse than they could have ever imagined. Over 8000 vacant homes. Drugs, crime, corruption. It’s the cheapest area in the USA aka the poorest area in the USA. There were once160,000 people in Youngstown. Now there’s only 60,000. 40,000 of whom are below the poverty line. You killed Youngstown.
You mean to tell me that in 1977 they didn't have the technology for better video cameras? I realize they didn't have 4K, but they could've filmed in color.
How do you know that they didn't? It could have been just a B&W copy. And I can tell by the look (and the vertical lines) that it's not video anyway...it was film.
A lot of the news at the time was done in black and white.
@@ericwoy4132 I know that, but I agree with the OP. The use of black and white footage should've been a thing of the past at this point.
That is in color youngstown is a grey place.
I worked at Republic Steel on Albert st. From 1973 until 1981. Sad.
Thank God my Mom got me a job in Pontiac Mi. I just retired. Live in Rochester Hills Mi.
Moral of the story: when towns become dependent on corporations they lose! At the end of the day the business (in this case the steel mill) is there to make money (turn a profit) the minute they start to lose money or find ways to make more of it, they will leave that city and in its wake are thousands of families left to wonder what's next? A great example of this is what happened to GM once they left towns like Flint, Michigan in the 80's and the same fate happened to them just like what happened to Youngstown.
My wife grew up in Campbell and her father and brothers in law all lost their jobs on that day. We were lucky, I had already gone back into the Army.
in the past we needed unions to pave the way for today but they have gotten out of hand with everything they say the worker should have. and we have OSHA to make sure companies don't take advantage of employees safety and workers comp.
True... As a teacher I never really took advantage of the system but there were some who felt untouchable and that's where the union gets a bad name.
Are unions asking for too much or are workers not valuing their own labor? OSHA steps in, in many cases, when it is too late. In the fire service, I guarantee that without my union, I would not have the necessary safety equipment for the job, I would not have enough time off to spend with my family, and I would not earn a living wage. Value your labor, join a union, and pull everyone up.
Eathan that statement is wrong. I work for a large company in Youngstown and without a union the employees would be treated worse than we are now!
My late great Dad worked at the sheet and tube. I remember black Monday like yesterday. If you're from Youngstown Campbell is pronounced Camel.
Must have been horrible for everyone involved 🤢
And Youngstown is pronounced "Yunks-town". 👍🏾
Lykes took the money and ran leaving the workers high and dry
A corporation owes nothing to the community it is in. It's responsibility is to its share owners. That being said, in the 70s what did Youngstown do for the steel mills? Did they say hey, we know times are hard, how about a property tax abatement or a income tax holiday? Nope. Youngstown did not. At least to my knowledge.
This is exactly why every American worker should know that the owners of the corporation are always the enemy of the worker, whose interests directly conflict with the corporations interest in cutting wages to give more to the shareholders.
it didn’t matter. the “modernization” people reference was needed to keep the companies competitive, regardless if it was owned by shareholders or employees. that modernization int eh steel industry means EAF and maybe 10% of the jobs at best. the unions kept demanding and getting higher pay and benefits-why? to take as much as they could while they could, and company would rather grant that have a strike. keep kicking the can until there was nothing left.
If you believe what you said, you are part of the problem not the solution.
When the confidence our money is gone in the world,we better produce something.
The union threatened management to take management into they're own hands. I can't blame management for shutting everything down at once. They deserved it, especially considering what the average worker made per hour.
How much per hour did they make in 1960? My grandfather worked his whole life in the steel industry in Youngstown, was a good hard working man, saved what he could, and I certainly didn't see him rolling in dough and laughing all the way to the bank. Unfortunately the management hadn't invested in new technology to remain competitive . It seems to me that unions wouldn't have developed if business hadn't been so ruthless to employees.
Unions abused their power, I have seen in the auto industry, people sleeping or reading books in the assembly line and nobody could say anything, I'm not lying I saw it with very own eyes
@@2000Betelgeuse If they were sleeping or reading,who did the work?..
the management investing in modernization would have meant job decimation as well. and guess what? a massive strike. employees could have bought the firm as an ESOP and run it as they see fit. but they’d still have to modernize. i.e., massive reduction in work force. just look at Weirton steel ESOP from this era. Fundamentally, modernization in the steel industry means far fewer workers.
When the mills closed Youngstown and surrounding areas died.
80% of all venture capital...ie: manufacturing jobs is in California, Texas, and Massachusetts right now. That gives about 15% to the southern states because business men don’t like unions, and the other 5% is for us unionized northern states ie from the Great Lake states to the Midwest. You wanna know why the the later area wants $15/hr at McDonalds. Because you can’t live off of $7.25/hr, and there starving.
does anyone know when this film was made?
thanks
I can't answer that for sure but the copyright says 1978
Blaxk monday was 77’ so can’t be too far after that.
that guy is full or crap on the rail roads. PL&E bent over back words to serve the steel mills. they had a very big yard called gate way. its only apx 65 miles from the great lakes to youngs town. the THE PL&E ran a lot or or trains. the erie lackwana also bent over back words to serve steel mills. they also had a rail road yard in youngs town caled bair hill. the steel companys had members on the boards of the PL@E rail road and the erie lackwana rail road. the el rail road was not going to go in to conrail but the board members of steel companys also on erie lackwana told the rail road back in 1974 they were going out of business and to go in to conrail. youngstown way where the erie lackawana made its most money. the rail roads were in to coal trains in apx 1966. they would have had no problem with iron ore and line stone trains
thanks for the detail. what he said made no sense to me, thanks for explaining.
The company didn't rape you,(In fact why do men use the term rape?)the mob was the union skimming workers dues,had mobsters as business agents,union reps, the unions back then were the mobs golden egg, so bad the govermnent had to take over the unions back then, almost every union leadership was arrested and charged (and later convicted)under the RICO act,with racketeering,extortion,mismanaging union funds,so let's not put all the blame on management,even to this day union leaderships continues to steal workers money to give to democratic politicians and lobbyist to fatten their pockets,then have the nerve to demand and/or try to force companies to do what they want only now they don't deny it and feel proud about doing it,I think you should say the union raped you and your fellow workers.
and today the unions sold their souls to trump....no crocodile tears from me.
Carl.. Both parties are corrupt buddy..Stop making like it's dems only..
The Anniversary is tomorrow.
Bill Sferra=🐐
That shit at 10:20 made me wanna cry lmao
In the 1970's, the steel industry was the first to feel the sting of globalization. Look at the devastation today all through the rust belt, and the consequences could not be more clear. Capitalism has failed the working class, with men being specially burdened. I recall the peans that were sung years later, extolling the emerging service economy as the next great thing. In reality, the only thing that the service economy makes in abundance....are slaves.
Hugh Johnson then Bill Clinton signed NAFTA.
Hugh Johnson...I remember "Dutch" Reagan, telling the American people what a great thing a service economy was, and what it would do for them..I remember "Willie" Clinton telling Americans how great NAFTA was and all the jobs it would create...
Should those people should have learned C++ and moved on?
Pure fantasy. Funny. It's like trying to keep a bad married going. Ha ha ha.
Capital owners.
United States of Corporations.
we lost WWll to Germany & Japan ( autos & electronics ). On Nov 8, 2016 Russians officially won the Cold War.....tough shit on both for America.....
richard alvarado that makes a lot of sense 🙄
Lost to China too, back in January 2021.