Hi Hambini, would you consider doing a video on what to look for when receiving a new bike? In terms of things to check for manufacturing or assembly issues. Thanks!
As an engineer myself you are absolutely correct the frame machining is atrocious, really not acceptable, I would demand my money back, the frame is not fit for purpose, keep up the good work. 👍
One of the many good things with this little channel for us "not-so-good english speakers", is that it also serve as a language enrichment source. I had no clue what "bell end" was so I hade to google it... So, thanks to Master Hambini, I learned something today, too!
I work in a civil engineering test laboratory for a local authority in the UK, I have measured better tolerances on a concrete cube (using 0.3mm feeler gauge) made in a 30 year old mould than on that frame fucking disgrace ful
Imagine the trip that the Raw Bauxite that came all the way from Guinea, Africa shipped to be processed & made into high quality raw Aluminum bar rods in a port in Bremerhaven, Germany just to turn out into a badly misaligned bb shell by Italian bike artisans 💀
@@cd0u50c9 try vdz wheels in southern France if you want handbuilt with care wheels, this guy can make you a well rounded and tensionned pair of wacky wheels for your very own needs that won't try to take any other shape than round except if confronted directly by a larger mass like a car, truck, tractor or stoned sungrazing cow in the middle of the (country) road. 🐮 would be nice to compare his wheels, tubs especially but hookies or hookless ate fine too, to bigger, well known brands, like, ~cough-cough~ zpip, ravol, evne, black inc. or cheap arse and not so cheap arsed doordash'd chinese stuff. 😼
The gap is more useful than harmful. The hanger all in all is a weak design, but probably still workable. If the hanger bends slightly outward or just is that way out of the box you need to bend it back to get the gears spot on. If there were no gap, it could bend outward but not inward where it is narrow. If it is a springy type of alloy it still might have this problem where the gap closes before it bends and then you have to gamble snapping it if you apply more force.
Well fuck me, I've finally seen machining and fabrication worse than what I handed in during my BTEC Manufacturing Engineering course I did 25 years ago! The difference between me and Bertilini (or whatever he name is) is that I knew it was crap and decided to change direction and hide my crapness in the IT world! 😂
Proof that you don't want a precision piece of equipment made by "artisans". Reminds me of when back in the early 2000's I saw a Ferrari chassis in the museum in Maranello. Spaceframe construction with some of the worst welding I've ever seen.
depends on said artisan and what you want. don't forget that nice welds are just that. ugly welds are fine too depending on what yuo want, a beautiful museum piece or a race car chassis for next weekend race, made in the '60s or '70s with that era tech and mindset, that won't be reused next season. oh yeah, and what you're willing to pay for of course. 😼
@@golDroger88 A weld can look like complete ass and not break in every scenario. That shouldn't be a question. They're considered high end vehicles. Poor looking welds is something you see on cheaply manufactured parts. They cost what houses cost.
I have a hard time combining “artisan” to carbon, especially for a company that says they only produce 250 frames per year. A brand like Schmolke might be the exception. For a steel or titanium build I see how that works, for carbon I’d 100% go with Time or something similar.
Scmolke make their bars. Everything else they buy in. Rims are Munich Composites which are made by a machine. Cranks and stems THM ( they bought the company). Frames - open mold from Workswell in China. Newly revealed frame is a rebrand of a design by a Korean brand, and made in China.
Just found your channel, absolutely superb! I love your knowledge, skills and humor. It’s raining today, so not out on my bike, I’ll be watching your videos all day, nice work! 👍🏼
Since I started watching Hambini and Peak Torque, I shifted my new bike shopping from a number of carbon models to only Look or Time. But I have learned those two brands are actually, apparently, made from unobtainium rather than carbon. So I'm sticking with aluminum and steel. Carbon forks and other bits, sure, but not frames.
I bought used Time Izon bike with a power meter under $2k USD few months ago. Handlebar, Wheels, and 11 speed groupset included. Izon is predecessor to Alpe d'huez model line. It took me a while to find Time bike within my budget, but it s worth it.
When I first started cycling back in 2004 I purchased a alu bianchi 9 speed shimano for $3500 a lot of money but I love it , a mate was into the Giant carbon thing I was a 55 m he was a little taller 56 m/l and he ask me to ride them and ask my opinions . The first one I tried felt what I thought was Mussie at best and for some reason 20 years on and 35 + bikes on my suspicions linger .
Brilliant. Last week GCN had a frame that rode itself. No rider required. Virtual 200 watts needed only hold current 45 kph. Lol. I just love GCN AD endorsements and aero marketing claims
Agree with most of your comments about this (and the overall take on it) however the brake "flats" is a little disingenuous. The key thing on a disk brake mount isn't that the whole surface is flat (because in fact most brake mounts aren't flat from hole to hole, often "bridge shaped" in fact, so being flat is pointless)... however, the area immediately surrounding each post hole SHOULD be flat, and those should be level across both mounting holes. Basically you'd want maybe 4-5mm surrounding the bolt holes, being machined "flat and level" with everything else around it dropping away (to prevent any interference with any potentially flat-surfaced brake mounting adapter). Clearly that's still "wrong" on this bike, but having a dip in between the 2 holes, is not a negative (when designed for, rather than just random deviation as appears to be the case here)... in other words, a slight "U" shape where each bolt mounting point is the top of the U, is normal, but clearly in this case, it's just ugly made in general and based on the steel rule, I'd definitely think the bolt mounting flat surroundings are... not flat, LOL. Interesting, money definitely doesn't buy quality! Thanks for the video!
The owner of the frame would be grateful if you can consider supporting his colleague's gofund me page which is here gofund.me/65af77d3 This mainly applies to US residents
I’m Italian and I’ve never heard of this brand, nevertheless my comment is when you meet someone wearing a polo keeping its collar that way you can’t take him seriously. Italy is home of engineering and boutique manufacturing excellence with obsessed attention to detail and looking at this poorly put together frame makes me feel ashamed and very sorry for the owner.
Agreed. Just like anywhere else there are people with pride in their work and those who are just interested in making money any way they can. I have made-to-measure bikes made by Antonio Mondonico in steel and Michele Favaloro in carbon, bikes I'd put up against the quality/craftsmanship of any maker in the world. Sadly these days marketing skills too often trump quality when it comes to success in not only the bike market, but elsewhere as well.
I've had a virtual factory tour of a chinese factory with state of the art manufacturing equipment, packing and warehousing that starts with W and I've also seen a "artisan handbuilt" frameset from milan, italy. I know which one I'd rather build up and trust my life with riding after 5000 km+ done on the former.
There are quality frames coming out of Italy still and elsewhere. Alan still makes quality frames although I'm pretty sure their carbon frames are built under contract to their designs in Taiwan now.
@@glennoc8585 I don't know about Alan's modern frames but those glued Alu. frames that made them famous were definitely not quality. After use the glue would give up and give you clicking noises from every joint.
@@dosgos not sure i associate Italy with ‘superb engineering’ but you know it’s possible to make stuff properly anywhere. Really not sure how ‘made in Italy’ is supposed to inspire confidence when it comes to carbon frames tho
Great video but sad at the same time. When you are supposedly buying an equivalent to a Brioni suit but in a bike frame, it should be perfect. After all, it’s not like you are skimping on the budget. There should be an option on the checkout page of all frame sellers ‘Hambini Fix’! Disgraceful. I’d love to have seen how the BMC Impec came out, that was described as ‘handmade by robots’. Also looking forward to the Hambini Time Scylon build, if that’s a dog I’m giving up cycling as there’s nothing to buy when I need a frame replacement. Really nice to see that Hambini has gone to the little details like the packing washers to do a belt and braces job - good work!
I live in Asia so I've seen a fair share of chinese no name frame. And that looks like a Chinese no name frame that didn't meet QC. Pretty sure they just bought frame from China and just slap their brand on.
Looks pretty much like it. Would be typical Italian thief business making. You can be quite sure that the company owner also is a far right conservative fascist, complaining about immigration and how local businesses are being destroyed because of lacking nationalism whatever, while he buys frames in China. Would be typical Italian. I know it, I am Italian as well.
I have a legend 9.5, it didn’t cost me $7K, bought it through a dealer in the Netherlands. It doesn’t have any of these issues. I do the work on it myself so I’ve examined every inch of it. None of these issues, well, the paint is chipped in places but I did that , I’m not American and I didn’t overpay to hang it on my wall, those type of comments are nonsense and you’re better off just making a cup of tea. Surprised the warranty doesn’t cover defects.
Brilliant! Good old fashioned non-PC Northern engineering slagging from someone who knows their nuts from their grommets!😂 You Mr Hambini have just won yourself a convert and a subscriber even if you are a Lanc. Keep up the good work and that fine sense of humour.
Ive had several Decathlon bikes,theyve all been decent bikes for the cash,but make no mistake if you want better quality youre going to have to spend much more......
it takes skill to weld aluminium. it takes even more skill to weld titanium. but there’s no barrier to entry for people slapping carbon together. another carbon fail.
It is completely wrong to think that this issues are due to material used to build the frame. If you would take a frame made out of any other material and put it to the same scrutiny you would find quality issues left, right and center. A company that employes workforce with low set of skills for their carbon products will probably employ similar level for all other products.
@@debelifratar It seems like there was nothing really wrong with this frame when it came out of the mould. If they had finished it correctly, would have been a very nice $500 oem frame. Good value, nice looking. What? $7000? Fuuuuu
Love your bike roasting videos, especially the "high end" frames. Two requests: Can you roast the new ENVE frame and can you "roast" a frame that is actually very good?
One of the first things I learnt as a BAe apprentice was 'Corners cause cracks, cracks cause crashes'. The engineering in the frame, considering the high purchase cost, is very poor.
The winspace doesn't use aluminum inserts in frame head tube rather just molded. His comment about this bike was if you were going to machine the aluminum insert, at least do it properly.
Generally appalling issues aside, as Hambini has pointed out before, this is one of my big problems with threaded BB's in carbon frames. People crap on how they are better because they can handle lower tolerances, but you are assuming they can bond an alloy tube properly into a carbon frame properly.
This is a very good point that often gets missed. When the original BSA BB's went out of fashion, a lot of the bikes were still aluminium. Now they are carbon and require a glued aluminium insert to take the threads. The flatness that is required will still require some post machining. Time will tell how long these things stay glued in for before corrosion sets in and the epoxy fails.
@@Hambini are there any checks you can do? Or is it a case of 'fine, fine, fine, massive crash'? And what riding / storage conditions would speed this up?
I insisted on threaded BB with the Favaloro bikes I had made - zero issues though I can now say pretty much the same thing for his press-fit frames...quality control counts no matter what!
I'd be heartbroken if the frame I'd bought for probably a substantial amount of groats turned out to be shite! I really shows that some "artisan" bespoke frame builders are no better than than the big boys out there.
@@Ob1sdarkside steel frame market mostly weeded out the geometrically challenged -'tards- and snaky-snaky handling builders. except probably on the social media promoted high end part of the market. a kind of reversed bell end curve if i may. 😏
Pardon me for asking, but if they had put a normal facing and chasing tool on that shell before it left the factory would you have been able to screw in the BB so that you wouldn't have suspected anything was wrong? I only know about steel.
yeah that's how it looked to me, although in the event of impact the lever effect of the derailleur would seriously munch up the carbon. and further more i am not sure hambini's solution to grind away so much material was a good idea. then he has to shim it out. i would have added more carbon, and then milled it. theres no way of knowing if there was enough material around the BB to support so much removal.
@@markrossell8685 totally pointless. The concentricity of the bearing is due to the machined thread made from stock material and not from the face of the machined stock. The 2 pieces of machined stock are in alignment. This guy is a bit unsure of himself.
Thank you very much Hambini for this review. This demonstrates (again) and actually destroys all this "fried air" Italian sellers. I'm Italian and I'm very sad seeing that we became famous for our crafting, not only in bike manufacturing, now we sell just our nationality and brands for incredibly high prices, without any craftmanship. From my point of view it's not just a matter of this shitty brand but also all the other big Italian names. This is not generalization, it's actually a fact.
The Comet did not have square windows. The windows corners were rounded off. They knew just enough about stress and fatigue in pressurised lightweight alloy structures to know not to use a square - They just didn't know enough. Boeing should give De Havilland a thank you for all the work that was passed on, which they took full advantage of. Certain areas were found to have stresses 400% above that calculated. Instead of using adhesive as per blueprints, a roof section holding a HF aerial was riveted. The holes for the rivets were punched through and the rough rivet hole edges were the starting point for the failures. Edit: There is a name for the rounded square? Squound or something? Aha, Squircle I think!
The windows on Comet 1 were far more square than on any subsequent airliner - the rounding off of the corners is barely noticeable. The fatigue failure on the post-crashes fatigue test at Farnborough started at one of the cabin windows. The whole story of what went wrong is more complex than the one usually told (in that there was a fuselage fatigue test but that the test conditions were got wrong) but the complete change of window design on subsequent Comets is evidence enough that the original design was flawed.
@@zefallafez They had a pressurised part, a tube, not the airframe. There were fully pressurised aircraft before too, but none that were able to fly at that 40,000 feet.
@@zefallafez It was a great advance of the art. Of course in these areas there is always something that has been attempted or tried or parts of the whole prior. This is all well established.
I just feel sorry for the owner. I'm sure there are quality frame builders in Italy. I'll bet they don't have slick web sites, or any web site. And they build in steel.
@@firesurfer someone may correct me on this. After Cinelli was bought by Columbus the frame building was contracted out. My opinion, when you contract out production you lose control over quality. With few exceptions.
@@Paul020 Cinelli canceled their contract in Jan 22. I think they are all made in Milan now. As far as quality, it really depends on the individual builder. They can be wonderful or meh, regardless of the company name. (as long as, it is not cf)
I bought a Cinelli in 1983 direct in Milan. The frame was "off the shelf". I could see the details left a little to be desired, but if you want it, that's the way it is. Italians have never been known for excellent craftsmanship. Design has always been their forte. This is why the fashion world centers on Milan. Some would say, how would you know it's special, if not for the defects? :) edit; steel is forgiving, CF not so much.
Italian here - you can find excellent craftsmanship but I recognise that many many many too many abuse the concept of “made in Italy” and the whole narration that comes with it
But there are also a lot if as crappy Chinese frames too just less expensive. Price aside a product must be fit for purpose and structurally safe. I'll choose the cheaper option as I'm happy to fix up and modify if need be. Most people can't it don't want to do that and especially if they're parting with a massive sum of the old hard earned.
@@glennoc8585 A lot of good cheap uci indonesian & chinese frames. Ploygon Elves Pardus Gusto Java Etc Our ex-national pro rider win at national race just using non-uci $350 frame (Alcott). This is solid evidence that you don't need $7k frame + chunky AB ospw just to win crit race. The most important parts in a cfrp bike are all the rolling mechanism that need bearings. Just change all the bearings with hi quality low friction bearings and you are ready for race.
thanx for heads up, the Brand is LEGEND, still a new company and who would buy a bike called Legend, if it is not a family name. Would have been much cooler if it was named Bertoletti, still a very young company, Legend bikes came about in 2009 !!!!, pls all you US blokes (usually) go on to NAHBS, support your brands locally, and if you want an italian "pagani" frame, buy frame form bigger brands, if its not up to par they will take the necessary measures to please you. Ps next time buy cheaper frame and go crazy on wheels, lightweigt or bike ahead composite; Spengle has some history AND do THM for other bits and parts
Hmmmm, i suppose the manufacturer said, your being to fussy or Hambini doesn't know what he is talking about. I am expecting that the frame to be 5000 pounds + easily. Disgrace is a understatement. And to all those na sayers out there, this is really basic engineering. Round holes and loccating surcface for bearings. Not rocket science. 🤦♂️
@RollinRat also a mechanical engineering student, tolerance really is a big part of the business, its the difference between a hundred dollar work and a thousand dollar work
Having watched for many minutes (years) and seeing a lot of roastings, I wonder, has Hambini ever come across a bike brand he would wholeheartedly recommend to manufacture an almost flawless frame?
I was genuinely surprised by this. Shows what a sucker to slick marketing and the idea of Italian engineering excellence i am. I can’t imagine how disappointed the owner was. Enough of me trying to be eloquent. I’ll translate to Hambini… How flipping much for an utter crock of shite?
Get a steel Battaglin or something similar. I would choose a Field, Bellé or Ligor. If you want custom geometry, carbon doesn't cut it unless it is lugged like a Colnago C series.
You can tell from afar that this is certainly not a $7K frame. Sadly, my guy has been taken for a ride. My Carbonda frame that cost less than $500 just for the frame looks significantly more refined and barely has any faults.
Hambini, could you recommend/list, the bike frame manufacturers and/or company’s that are safe to buy from? I’m presuming the list is going to be very small
I worked in luxury composite yacht manufacture and it taught me a few things: - If you are going to spend what is a lot of money (at least in your eyes) on a largely bespoke product, visit the factory and meet the staff. Sales will talk the talk and management will make sure you get it but the craftsmen are the value that you are buying. Do they have a passion for the work? Are they happy? See some previous pierces in person. Particularly bespoke companies will allow you to do this at least I’ve found in the UK. - Do some research on the manufacture of what you are buying. Composites especially can vary widely in production quality even sometimes from the same factory depending a lot on employee knowledge and equipment maintenance (I saw a hull of a 50ft hull scrapped all because a simple resin hose was accidentally disconnected) - although things might look good on the surface, that still might be hiding something (we had tools behind panels, etc). A good example of best practice at least that I’ve seen in person is Bowers & Wilkins who manufacture and assemble there products meticulously inside and out. All and all when you by bespoke there will always be a level of ‘craftsmanship’ and there are some truly incredible craftsman out there. Anyway, we’re all crafty folk on this feed I’m sure so probably no need to share the above but thought I would. Great vid Hambini, a lot could learn from this 👍🏼
@@TheMoodyedge not all china frames are shit, but if you buy direct and it’s £300 that’s totally different to paying 5k or whatever from Italy and getting something worse.
This is my first Hambini video! Thanks for the hard work. Subscribed, liked and obvs commented. All hail the Algorithm! P.S. Where is all the hate for hairdressers coming from?
Cycling industry, time & effort spent on: Flashy landing page and marketing bull 100% Making sure holes are round 0% Hambini, time & effort spent on: Flashy landing page and marketing bull 0% Making sure holes are round 100%
Hambini please keep up the great work. When someone spends 7k of there hard worked for cash why would you expect zero QC. The frame in question should have been returned to the builder buy QC
Mr Hambini! Question: Would u be able to get your hands on a Factor frame? Would be interesting to see if they are on point and would get a thumbs up from you.🙏
The “made in Italy” is becoming each year closer to “shitty overpriced product”. They did where the flagship of engineering in the 70s but now they mostly sell just based on the hype. I did live in Italy for 4 years as an engineer and witnessed how the country is just going downhill. This is just a reflection of that.
i bought a rim brake second hand legend top of the range and there were holes in both sides in the underside of the chain stays near the drop outs. the paint had flaked off revealing the holes and as far as i could see the carbon material was wafer thin and not crash damage.
American and an Irish bloke in a bar get chatting. American says he works for NASA. Irish guy says he lays flagstones for the council. American says " I'm an engineer, I work to tolerances of 1/10,000th of an inch. Irishman says " that's no good, my gaffer says I've got to be spot on " Now that is a joke, just like that frame.
Now I'm glad that I can't afford one. Thanks for the thorough review, and especially for the pictures of the headstock machining which is Crap by anyone's standards.
I know Carbon is tricky, and there were certainly serious faults everywhere that you pointed out....but did anyone else notice how lumpy the frame surface was? The light reflecting off the surface showed it was wavy. I would expect a work of art coming out of a shop like that at this price point. And the paint was a mess.
If the BB shell is square and faced, you could pop a couple of shims in there to keep the BB off the paint. I have noticed that most frames regardless of supposed "quality" are really quite sloppily done. Especially carbon fiber ones. There is a tool that can be made from metal shaped just like a bottom bracket that is pretty much the same as a facer to make that flat the way it was supposed to be. It would have been good if the frame builder would have used one before the thing was painted
Legend owners getting their pants pulled down, seen a few of these over the years. Not much better than the average Chinese frameset but £5k more expensive 'cause they got shiny paint....
No internal inspection as in endoscope? One has to wonder how poorly laid-up this thing might be if they cared so little on the bonded-in alloy bits. Will it separate into pieces on the first big bump or first big sprint?
Bertoletti won't publish prices on the their website. Don't trust anyone that will not tell you straight out how much something costs. I am more interested in the hairdressers scale of penetration.
Interesting tear down! Any views on Sarto, an artisan Italian frame builder that makes made-to-measure carbon frames? I read somewhere they also build WindyMilla frames.
Nice video. But consider ensuring a LARGE blank between the words 'pen' and 'is' when doing the pencheck unless you want to switch to youPorn. Or did I miss the joke and it was intentional? My wife and daughter had a good laugh anyway. Love your work, keep going!
We all know that custom made items are more expensive than mass produced, but this Legend frame is a total rip-off. I don't want to bad-mouth Italian artisan folks, but they're got some nerve and so entitled to charge over 6000 euro/dollar for mediocre quality workmanship.
I would not be surprised if many artisan shops are not aware of variability in their prodiction process. Especially if it's not tragically bad and at the end everything "fits".
I picked up a brochure for Legend 'bikes' a few years ago. I was quite impressed by the jargon within, but upon seeing this, I can literally see how gash it is on my phone. That is dreadful even the finish alone/vs price tag.
The owner bought the bike and first thing he does is take it to you🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️ I’ve built a few Legend’s in my time and also own a steel Legend and had a factory tour.That frame doesn’t look new at all as is claimed. Can the owner produce the invoice to prove that it was brand new at time of delivery??
There really doesn't seem to be a perfect solution for carbon frames. Pressfit seems to be something where you only get a good one by chance because the tolerances needed for the bb to work correctly are way tighter than the frame manufacturing process allows for, and then you have bonded metal shells like bb30, bsa, and t47 where you know that one day it will de-bond from the frame, but at least you'll have higher precision, unless of course you buy one of the "artisan" frames.
@@MrSzwarz It's still molded, the manufacturing process isn't more precise, so then it just comes down to quality control, basically what percentage they're willing to toss. Metal bb shells make sense for the manufacturers though because they generally survive the warranty period.
Artisan = paying 7k for a handmade frame with piss poor tolerances, which is exactly the justification (read: rationalization) most owners would use, saying those “imperfections” give the bike its character..
@@Reanimator999 ‘you don’t realize bikes are emotion. Feeling those far from round holes just tells me the frame is made by a craftsman in his little hundred year old workshop as opposed to your run of the mill frame which was made by robots’.
@@Bonky-wonky It's the Emotion gets the worst of sound judgment. I made bad mistakes when I had emotion took charge of my finance in younger years. I got disappointed when I bought certain custom made item.
I asked for a refund with return of the frame to no avail
They said that they were open to criticism.
Lol
You're the owner of this frame?
What a response. The evidence is quite comprehensive.
well maybe a USofA built Agronaut would have been the better solution ....🤕
(I guess you already have) Send them a link to this video and lets hope that they read some of the comments...
I think you'd get the new Lemond in America for similar money.
Gotta give props to the company for at least hiring the blind for their quality assurance dept..
The blind would feel those ”issues” easily.
Reassuring words
It must be a fake frame, made by prisoners in china. NO WAY did REAL engineers make that pile of carbon fakery surely????
Affirmative action
Hi Hambini, would you consider doing a video on what to look for when receiving a new bike? In terms of things to check for manufacturing or assembly issues. Thanks!
Yes
great idea!
Yes, please! That would be great.
@@Hambini I would give this a like, but it has 69 likes.
@@chrisko6439 I hesitated too, but ended up liking anyway..
People like Hambini being in the world is good. Makes me happy. A wonderful mind, and a decent hair cut too.
He´s keeping the hairdresser happy. Gives her what she wants?? Rgr
You wouldn't say that if you saw what he sends on WhatsApp. It's horrific
@@PeakTorque Like what??? Intrigued..
😂
@@PeakTorque 😂🤘🏻
As an engineer myself you are absolutely correct the frame machining is atrocious, really not acceptable, I would demand my money back, the frame is not fit for purpose, keep up the good work. 👍
It looks unsafe.
This owner should sue though not sure it’s possible in Italy
One of the many good things with this little channel for us "not-so-good english speakers", is that it also serve as a language enrichment source. I had no clue what "bell end" was so I hade to google it... So, thanks to Master Hambini, I learned something today, too!
You learn some spicy English, that's for sure.
@@zenspeed404 isn't that some curry-ous slanguage seeing how orangey it is? 🤔
I work in a civil engineering test laboratory for a local authority in the UK, I have measured better tolerances on a concrete cube (using 0.3mm feeler gauge) made in a 30 year old mould than on that frame fucking disgrace ful
That's pretty damning
This comment is pure gold
@@BillinSD it's concretely pretty well rounded too. 😽
Cant argue with concrete facts
@RollinRat You and me both.
Imagine the trip that the Raw Bauxite that came all the way from Guinea, Africa shipped to be processed & made into high quality raw Aluminum bar rods in a port in Bremerhaven, Germany just to turn out into a badly misaligned bb shell by Italian bike artisans 💀
Pure poetry! Love it!
Absolutely tragic story. I like my bread roll to be artisan, not my bike frame. Imagine an artisan egg-shaped wheel - you wouldn't have it, would you.
@@cd0u50c9 try vdz wheels in southern France if you want handbuilt with care wheels, this guy can make you a well rounded and tensionned pair of wacky wheels for your very own needs that won't try to take any other shape than round except if confronted directly by a larger mass like a car, truck, tractor or stoned sungrazing cow in the middle of the (country) road. 🐮
would be nice to compare his wheels, tubs especially but hookies or hookless ate fine too, to bigger, well known brands, like, ~cough-cough~ zpip, ravol, evne, black inc. or cheap arse and not so cheap arsed doordash'd chinese stuff. 😼
Then reamed by a 5 yr old !
Space between derailleur hanger and frame is obviously new "flex shift" to provide 10% improved shifting compliance 😅
@RollinRat I don't 🙂 but you don't need gears to enjoy Hambini 😅
Its a derailleur damper to damp out campagnolo's clunky shifting.
Designed specifically for a crapsolute twat ospw
The gap is more useful than harmful. The hanger all in all is a weak design, but probably still workable. If the hanger bends slightly outward or just is that way out of the box you need to bend it back to get the gears spot on. If there were no gap, it could bend outward but not inward where it is narrow. If it is a springy type of alloy it still might have this problem where the gap closes before it bends and then you have to gamble snapping it if you apply more force.
Well fuck me, I've finally seen machining and fabrication worse than what I handed in during my BTEC Manufacturing Engineering course I did 25 years ago! The difference between me and Bertilini (or whatever he name is) is that I knew it was crap and decided to change direction and hide my crapness in the IT world! 😂
Best Comment I've read this year
Proof that you don't want a precision piece of equipment made by "artisans". Reminds me of when back in the early 2000's I saw a Ferrari chassis in the museum in Maranello. Spaceframe construction with some of the worst welding I've ever seen.
depends on said artisan and what you want. don't forget that nice welds are just that. ugly welds are fine too depending on what yuo want, a beautiful museum piece or a race car chassis for next weekend race, made in the '60s or '70s with that era tech and mindset, that won't be reused next season.
oh yeah, and what you're willing to pay for of course. 😼
How can it "worst" if they raced with it and it held up?
@@golDroger88 Went fast enough for them to keep up and see the lotus winning the race
@@golDroger88 A weld can look like complete ass and not break in every scenario. That shouldn't be a question. They're considered high end vehicles. Poor looking welds is something you see on cheaply manufactured parts. They cost what houses cost.
@@jamesd7700 Those are racing cars, not luxury cars...
This mentality is why Ferrari does suvs now instead of F40s.
honestly honestly honestly. you'd never learn these things if hambini never made these videos. sooo much more details about bikes
I have a hard time combining “artisan” to carbon, especially for a company that says they only produce 250 frames per year. A brand like Schmolke might be the exception.
For a steel or titanium build I see how that works, for carbon I’d 100% go with Time or something similar.
Exactly, exactly! Artisan in my mind is stuff like Pegoretti or some of the Ti frames, but not carbon.
Scmolke make their bars. Everything else they buy in. Rims are Munich Composites which are made by a machine. Cranks and stems THM ( they bought the company). Frames - open mold from Workswell in China. Newly revealed frame is a rebrand of a design by a Korean brand, and made in China.
@@pmcmpc aha, so not even them. Unless someone is going to make a mold just for you, “artisan carbon” makes no sense
As my old carbon bike is on its way out the only brand for a replacement that I would consider is Time, otherwise I'm going steel.
@@cd0u50c9 Festka?
Just found your channel, absolutely superb! I love your knowledge, skills and humor. It’s raining today, so not out on my bike, I’ll be watching your videos all day, nice work! 👍🏼
Since I started watching Hambini and Peak Torque, I shifted my new bike shopping from a number of carbon models to only Look or Time. But I have learned those two brands are actually, apparently, made from unobtainium rather than carbon. So I'm sticking with aluminum and steel. Carbon forks and other bits, sure, but not frames.
I bought used Time Izon bike with a power meter under $2k USD few months ago. Handlebar, Wheels, and 11 speed groupset included. Izon is predecessor to Alpe d'huez model line. It took me a while to find Time bike within my budget, but it s worth it.
When I first started cycling back in 2004 I purchased a alu bianchi 9 speed shimano for $3500 a lot of money but I love it , a mate was into the Giant carbon thing I was a 55 m he was a little taller 56 m/l and he ask me to ride them and ask my opinions . The first one I tried felt what I thought was Mussie at best and for some reason 20 years on and 35 + bikes on my suspicions linger .
Superb video. This guy does not mess around. Shameful that bike manufacturers are dropping their quality, but not dropping their prices.
GCN says: the frame is super stiff, compliend and responsive!
🤣
5/5
Brilliant. Last week GCN had a frame that rode itself. No rider required. Virtual 200 watts needed only hold current 45 kph. Lol. I just love GCN AD endorsements and aero marketing claims
GCN loves selling wet noodles
GCN will tell you I have a 14" cock if I pay them.
Agree with most of your comments about this (and the overall take on it) however the brake "flats" is a little disingenuous. The key thing on a disk brake mount isn't that the whole surface is flat (because in fact most brake mounts aren't flat from hole to hole, often "bridge shaped" in fact, so being flat is pointless)... however, the area immediately surrounding each post hole SHOULD be flat, and those should be level across both mounting holes. Basically you'd want maybe 4-5mm surrounding the bolt holes, being machined "flat and level" with everything else around it dropping away (to prevent any interference with any potentially flat-surfaced brake mounting adapter). Clearly that's still "wrong" on this bike, but having a dip in between the 2 holes, is not a negative (when designed for, rather than just random deviation as appears to be the case here)... in other words, a slight "U" shape where each bolt mounting point is the top of the U, is normal, but clearly in this case, it's just ugly made in general and based on the steel rule, I'd definitely think the bolt mounting flat surroundings are... not flat, LOL.
Interesting, money definitely doesn't buy quality! Thanks for the video!
Handmade at the italian countryside means you get a very individual and artistic interpretation of a bike frame.
🤣
Sure lol
The owner of the frame would be grateful if you can consider supporting his colleague's gofund me page which is here gofund.me/65af77d3 This mainly applies to US residents
I’m Italian and I’ve never heard of this brand, nevertheless my comment is when you meet someone wearing a polo keeping its collar that way you can’t take him seriously. Italy is home of engineering and boutique manufacturing excellence with obsessed attention to detail and looking at this poorly put together frame makes me feel ashamed and very sorry for the owner.
Agreed. Just like anywhere else there are people with pride in their work and those who are just interested in making money any way they can. I have made-to-measure bikes made by Antonio Mondonico in steel and Michele Favaloro in carbon, bikes I'd put up against the quality/craftsmanship of any maker in the world. Sadly these days marketing skills too often trump quality when it comes to success in not only the bike market, but elsewhere as well.
I'm not even Italian and I feel the same way as you do "Top Reviewer" ;-)
One of my bikes is a custom Tommasini Tecno: a masterpiece. And it certainly did not cost me US$7000.
@@lesliereissner4711 Mind you, this looks to be just the frame that costs $7K!
@@nowave7 it is, frame only. Even specialized charge almost this for a SL7 sworks frame only.
Ich habe sie vermisst Mr.Hambini. Ich könnte ihnen stundenlang Zuschauen.
Great demonstration of how people can be ripped off by flashy advertising
I've had a virtual factory tour of a chinese factory with state of the art manufacturing equipment, packing and warehousing that starts with W and I've also seen a "artisan handbuilt" frameset from milan, italy. I know which one I'd rather build up and trust my life with riding after 5000 km+ done on the former.
Does it rhyme with chin place?
There are quality frames coming out of Italy still and elsewhere. Alan still makes quality frames although I'm pretty sure their carbon frames are built under contract to their designs in Taiwan now.
@@glennoc8585 I don't know about Alan's modern frames but those glued Alu. frames that made them famous were definitely not quality. After use the glue would give up and give you clicking noises from every joint.
Italy has some superb industrial engineering and production.
@@dosgos not sure i associate Italy with ‘superb engineering’ but you know it’s possible to make stuff properly anywhere. Really not sure how ‘made in Italy’ is supposed to inspire confidence when it comes to carbon frames tho
Amazing analysis. Anyone that works on bicycles can learn from these.
Great video but sad at the same time. When you are supposedly buying an equivalent to a Brioni suit but in a bike frame, it should be perfect. After all, it’s not like you are skimping on the budget. There should be an option on the checkout page of all frame sellers ‘Hambini Fix’! Disgraceful. I’d love to have seen how the BMC Impec came out, that was described as ‘handmade by robots’. Also looking forward to the Hambini Time Scylon build, if that’s a dog I’m giving up cycling as there’s nothing to buy when I need a frame replacement. Really nice to see that Hambini has gone to the little details like the packing washers to do a belt and braces job - good work!
Would love a bmc impec hambini vidéo, I got a frame but still waiting for parts
You have a point, this frame is not cheap. How does "you get what you pay for" apply here? 🤔
@@jochenkraus7016 You pay too less and get accordingly, you pay way too much and part of deal is delivered as a lesson instead of actual goods.
I live in Asia so I've seen a fair share of chinese no name frame. And that looks like a Chinese no name frame that didn't meet QC. Pretty sure they just bought frame from China and just slap their brand on.
Looks pretty much like it. Would be typical Italian thief business making. You can be quite sure that the company owner also is a far right conservative fascist, complaining about immigration and how local businesses are being destroyed because of lacking nationalism whatever, while he buys frames in China. Would be typical Italian. I know it, I am Italian as well.
I have a legend 9.5, it didn’t cost me $7K, bought it through a dealer in the Netherlands. It doesn’t have any of these issues. I do the work on it myself so I’ve examined every inch of it. None of these issues, well, the paint is chipped in places but I did that , I’m not American and I didn’t overpay to hang it on my wall, those type of comments are nonsense and you’re better off just making a cup of tea. Surprised the warranty doesn’t cover defects.
Fascinating analysis! Just curious as to the customer’s thought process for selecting this frame manufacturer?
"I've always wanted one of them fancy artisan frames from Italy, and now that I can afford one, let's fucking go!"
Brilliant! Good old fashioned non-PC Northern engineering slagging from someone who knows their nuts from their grommets!😂
You Mr Hambini have just won yourself a convert and a subscriber even if you are a Lanc.
Keep up the good work and that fine sense of humour.
How about looking into a Decathlon (Triban) bike, perhaps they are better? Would be interesting to know.
Those are aluminium. Van Rysel are carbon though i think.
Ive had several Decathlon bikes,theyve all been decent bikes for the cash,but make no mistake if you want better quality youre going to have to spend much more......
Thank you Hambini for pointing out the information on OZ cycling. We all appreciate it......
it takes skill to weld aluminium. it takes even more skill to weld titanium. but there’s no barrier to entry for people slapping carbon together. another carbon fail.
Solid point. All those frame builders of old. Proud as punch. All those Reynolds tubes. Turned into a load of cheap Carbon dross.
I did a welding aluminium Tig course years ago and to do a nice weld too some time. getting the gas mix a feed rate right is critical.
It is completely wrong to think that this issues are due to material used to build the frame. If you would take a frame made out of any other material and put it to the same scrutiny you would find quality issues left, right and center. A company that employes workforce with low set of skills for their carbon products will probably employ similar level for all other products.
@@debelifratar It seems like there was nothing really wrong with this frame when it came out of the mould. If they had finished it correctly, would have been a very nice $500 oem frame. Good value, nice looking.
What? $7000? Fuuuuu
Love your bike roasting videos, especially the "high end" frames. Two requests: Can you roast the new ENVE frame and can you "roast" a frame that is actually very good?
Great to see value you can get....not 1 DOLLAR i would spend for such a frame. Continue with your Chanel...for sure a eyeopener for many guys
One of the first things I learnt as a BAe apprentice was 'Corners cause cracks, cracks cause crashes'. The engineering in the frame, considering the high purchase cost, is very poor.
11:07 The winspace frame you reviewed as seen on camera had a HUGE one of these, that you never addressed and I'm still perplexed till this day.
The winspace doesn't use aluminum inserts in frame head tube rather just molded. His comment about this bike was if you were going to machine the aluminum insert, at least do it properly.
@@weilliam I've seen hambini bash full carbon headtubes more than once for this exact reason. Don't know what changed
Generally appalling issues aside, as Hambini has pointed out before, this is one of my big problems with threaded BB's in carbon frames. People crap on how they are better because they can handle lower tolerances, but you are assuming they can bond an alloy tube properly into a carbon frame properly.
This is a very good point that often gets missed. When the original BSA BB's went out of fashion, a lot of the bikes were still aluminium. Now they are carbon and require a glued aluminium insert to take the threads. The flatness that is required will still require some post machining. Time will tell how long these things stay glued in for before corrosion sets in and the epoxy fails.
@@Hambini are there any checks you can do? Or is it a case of 'fine, fine, fine, massive crash'? And what riding / storage conditions would speed this up?
I insisted on threaded BB with the Favaloro bikes I had made - zero issues though I can now say pretty much the same thing for his press-fit frames...quality control counts no matter what!
Ok, so I'll better stick to metal frames for N+1.
@@Hambini My early 2000’s Madone’s never had any problems. Sold the last one last year. Nearly 20 years, threaded BB in a carbon frame.
Great vid..more coming I hope!
Thank you
Chris
I'd be heartbroken if the frame I'd bought for probably a substantial amount of groats turned out to be shite! I really shows that some "artisan" bespoke frame builders are no better than than the big boys out there.
Better off with open mold in most case...
Steel is probably the only artisan frame I'd buy. My carbon frame is open mold that's better than the frame in the vid
@@Ob1sdarkside And I bet you paid a very small fraction of the price of the abomination being rinsed here.
@@Ob1sdarkside steel frame market mostly weeded out the geometrically challenged -'tards- and snaky-snaky handling builders. except probably on the social media promoted high end part of the market.
a kind of reversed bell end curve if i may. 😏
@RollinRat I've been buying a few used Reynolds frames and building them up. Love the ride quality compared to aluminium.
This is why I got rid of all my carbon bikes and now own a Moots Vamoots RSL. Best bike brand hands down. The quality is just the best there is.
Tnank you, i'm learning english with your videos.
A very good way to learn formal English for use in any workplace or public situation 😂
Good God!
Pardon me for asking, but if they had put a normal facing and chasing tool on that shell before it left the factory would you have been able to screw in the BB so that you wouldn't have suspected anything was wrong? I only know about steel.
Be carfull Mr.Hambini. In Italy it's not unsuall that some Gentlemen suddenly come over for a visit.
They'll have to get past Tyrone first
Do you make jokes like this on black people too or are they politically correct only with italian stereotypes?
I live in Germany. Italy is basically a joke for us...
As you are basically nazis to us
Brake mount looks like someone finished it one handed with a flap wheel.
that someone is Michael J Fox
The +1mm gap on the hanger is likely intentional- allows the hanger to bend inward on impact.
yeah that's how it looked to me, although in the event of impact the lever effect of the derailleur would seriously munch up the carbon. and further more i am not sure hambini's solution to grind away so much material was a good idea. then he has to shim it out. i would have added more carbon, and then milled it. theres no way of knowing if there was enough material around the BB to support so much removal.
@@markrossell8685 totally pointless. The concentricity of the bearing is due to the machined thread made from stock material and not from the face of the machined stock.
The 2 pieces of machined stock are in alignment.
This guy is a bit unsure of himself.
Thank you very much Hambini for this review. This demonstrates (again) and actually destroys all this "fried air" Italian sellers. I'm Italian and I'm very sad seeing that we became famous for our crafting, not only in bike manufacturing, now we sell just our nationality and brands for incredibly high prices, without any craftmanship. From my point of view it's not just a matter of this shitty brand but also all the other big Italian names. This is not generalization, it's actually a fact.
Hey, for $7k what do you expect ... a full blown motorcycle?
Oh, wait ...
😂😂😂
I haven't watched the video yet and this description made my day already 🤣
The Comet did not have square windows. The windows corners were rounded off. They knew just enough about stress and fatigue in pressurised lightweight alloy structures to know not to use a square - They just didn't know enough. Boeing should give De Havilland a thank you for all the work that was passed on, which they took full advantage of. Certain areas were found to have stresses 400% above that calculated. Instead of using adhesive as per blueprints, a roof section holding a HF aerial was riveted. The holes for the rivets were punched through and the rough rivet hole edges were the starting point for the failures.
Edit: There is a name for the rounded square? Squound or something? Aha, Squircle I think!
The windows on Comet 1 were far more square than on any subsequent airliner - the rounding off of the corners is barely noticeable. The fatigue failure on the post-crashes fatigue test at Farnborough started at one of the cabin windows. The whole story of what went wrong is more complex than the one usually told (in that there was a fuselage fatigue test but that the test conditions were got wrong) but the complete change of window design on subsequent Comets is evidence enough that the original design was flawed.
Boeing built pressurized B29s that flew at 40,000 feet.
@@zefallafez They had a pressurised part, a tube, not the airframe. There were fully pressurised aircraft before too, but none that were able to fly at that 40,000 feet.
@@zefallafez It was a great advance of the art. Of course in these areas there is always something that has been attempted or tried or parts of the whole prior. This is all well established.
You're nit picking. By anyone's account and understanding they were square windows as opposed to the rounded ones that we see now.
I just feel sorry for the owner.
I'm sure there are quality frame builders in Italy. I'll bet they don't have slick web sites, or any web site. And they build in steel.
Do you mean like Cinelli?
Battaglin. Steel 😎
Tommasini
@@firesurfer someone may correct me on this. After Cinelli was bought by Columbus the frame building was contracted out. My opinion, when you contract out production you lose control over quality. With few exceptions.
@@Paul020 Cinelli canceled their contract in Jan 22. I think they are all made in Milan now. As far as quality, it really depends on the individual builder. They can be wonderful or meh, regardless of the company name. (as long as, it is not cf)
I bought a Cinelli in 1983 direct in Milan. The frame was "off the shelf". I could see the details left a little to be desired, but if you want it, that's the way it is. Italians have never been known for excellent craftsmanship. Design has always been their forte. This is why the fashion world centers on Milan. Some would say, how would you know it's special, if not for the defects? :)
edit; steel is forgiving, CF not so much.
To be fair, Milan has been a city of weapon makers for a huge part of millenia. The best armors and weapons were made in Milan.
Italian here - you can find excellent craftsmanship but I recognise that many many many too many abuse the concept of “made in Italy” and the whole narration that comes with it
@@tweed0929 Isn't it where Beretta come from ?
I find the elite products to be very good.
@@trizvanov Turkey
Frame isn’t faced, great job
It's DISGUSTING! The price they ask for crap frame. There are a lot of Cheap Chinese brands that are way better than that crap. ✔
But there are also a lot if as crappy Chinese frames too just less expensive. Price aside a product must be fit for purpose and structurally safe. I'll choose the cheaper option as I'm happy to fix up and modify if need be. Most people can't it don't want to do that and especially if they're parting with a massive sum of the old hard earned.
@@glennoc8585 A lot of good cheap uci indonesian & chinese frames.
Ploygon
Elves
Pardus
Gusto
Java
Etc
Our ex-national pro rider win at national race just using non-uci $350 frame (Alcott). This is solid evidence that you don't need $7k frame + chunky AB ospw just to win crit race. The most important parts in a cfrp bike are all the rolling mechanism that need bearings. Just change all the bearings with hi quality low friction bearings and you are ready for race.
thanx for heads up, the Brand is LEGEND,
still a new company and who would buy a bike called Legend, if it is not a family name. Would have been much cooler if it was named Bertoletti, still a very young company, Legend bikes came about in 2009 !!!!, pls all you US blokes (usually) go on to NAHBS, support your brands locally, and if you want an italian "pagani" frame, buy frame form bigger brands, if its not up to par they will take the necessary measures to please you. Ps next time buy cheaper frame and go crazy on wheels, lightweigt or bike ahead composite; Spengle has some history AND do THM for other bits and parts
I feel the worst experience of this whole shit storm, was probably Manchester airport. Fucking toilet.
@Hambini did you ever tear down a Tarmac SWorks SL6? What do you think about a BB replacement on one of those?
Hmmmm, i suppose the manufacturer said, your being to fussy or Hambini doesn't know what he is talking about. I am expecting that the frame to be 5000 pounds + easily. Disgrace is a understatement.
And to all those na sayers out there, this is really basic engineering. Round holes and loccating surcface for bearings. Not rocket science. 🤦♂️
Some people can't see Liz Hurley if she slapped them in the face
Simply because some people are wired to be tolerant even when brands and other people are taking them in the rear
@RollinRat also a mechanical engineering student, tolerance really is a big part of the business, its the difference between a hundred dollar work and a thousand dollar work
Excellent review and the disney princess towel really suits you. :)
Thankyou Big boy.
I see why they call themselves artisans rather than engineers....
Would kill to see you review a STANDERT frame... curious to know if there's any value there. Sadly dont have one to send to you.
Having watched for many minutes (years) and seeing a lot of roastings, I wonder, has Hambini ever come across a bike brand he would wholeheartedly recommend to manufacture an almost flawless frame?
Time
Time also Winspace
ican also good.. trance velo made review on it too
Carrera...
@@kousueki7024 "ican"? really ??? red chinese are very good at bait-n-switch caveat emptor
I was genuinely surprised by this. Shows what a sucker to slick marketing and the idea of Italian engineering excellence i am. I can’t imagine how disappointed the owner was. Enough of me trying to be eloquent. I’ll translate to Hambini…
How flipping much for an utter crock of shite?
WTF, the owner of that frame should have bought a Winspace. Imagine flying Milan for that? Milan's nice, though. I hope that person had a nice visit.
Dude, I wanna visit Milan for food and fashion items.
Winspace wipes the floor with that crap.
My seka is such better fit and finish than this I want to cry
It’s Bergamo though
Get a steel Battaglin or something similar. I would choose a Field, Bellé or Ligor. If you want custom geometry, carbon doesn't cut it unless it is lugged like a Colnago C series.
Stupid question but with the frame delivered as is, when you put the crank in, would it work? What would be the problem?
You can tell from afar that this is certainly not a $7K frame. Sadly, my guy has been taken for a ride. My Carbonda frame that cost less than $500 just for the frame looks significantly more refined and barely has any faults.
Even hi-end frame should not exceed $3k.
Love the tablecloth bro, nice !
Hambini, could you recommend/list, the bike frame manufacturers and/or company’s that are safe to buy from?
I’m presuming the list is going to be very small
I worked in luxury composite yacht manufacture and it taught me a few things:
- If you are going to spend what is a lot of money (at least in your eyes) on a largely bespoke product, visit the factory and meet the staff. Sales will talk the talk and management will make sure you get it but the craftsmen are the value that you are buying. Do they have a passion for the work? Are they happy? See some previous pierces in person. Particularly bespoke companies will allow you to do this at least I’ve found in the UK.
- Do some research on the manufacture of what you are buying. Composites especially can vary widely in production quality even sometimes from the same factory depending a lot on employee knowledge and equipment maintenance (I saw a hull of a 50ft hull scrapped all because a simple resin hose was accidentally disconnected)
- although things might look good on the surface, that still might be hiding something (we had tools behind panels, etc). A good example of best practice at least that I’ve seen in person is Bowers & Wilkins who manufacture and assemble there products meticulously inside and out.
All and all when you by bespoke there will always be a level of ‘craftsmanship’ and there are some truly incredible craftsman out there.
Anyway, we’re all crafty folk on this feed I’m sure so probably no need to share the above but thought I would. Great vid Hambini, a lot could learn from this 👍🏼
Love your work, man!!
Imagine flying from North America to Europe to pick up an open mould frameset from China 🤣
This is what I came here to write 😂. What an absolute bag of knackers that frame is.
Chinese back alley.
I think it’s a sign of more money than sense .Though the manufacturer should be hung drawn and quartered.🤣
@@TheMoodyedge not all china frames are shit, but if you buy direct and it’s £300 that’s totally different to paying 5k or whatever from Italy and getting something worse.
It's worse because he knew it would be on RUclips and still let it out of the door
This is my first Hambini video!
Thanks for the hard work.
Subscribed, liked and obvs commented.
All hail the Algorithm!
P.S. Where is all the hate for hairdressers coming from?
Cycling industry, time & effort spent on:
Flashy landing page and marketing bull 100%
Making sure holes are round 0%
Hambini, time & effort spent on:
Flashy landing page and marketing bull 0%
Making sure holes are round 100%
Well, I reckon the princess blanket could be filed under "flashy landing blanket".. Rgr
*holes
Hambini please keep up the great work. When someone spends 7k of there hard worked for cash why would you expect zero QC. The frame in question should have been returned to the builder buy QC
The garage of broken dreams
Mr Hambini! Question: Would u be able to get your hands on a Factor frame? Would be interesting to see if they are on point and would get a thumbs up from you.🙏
The “made in Italy” is becoming each year closer to “shitty overpriced product”. They did where the flagship of engineering in the 70s but now they mostly sell just based on the hype. I did live in Italy for 4 years as an engineer and witnessed how the country is just going downhill. This is just a reflection of that.
It seems like they're living on their laurel and not putting effort to improve. Complacency indeed.
made in china
i bought a rim brake second hand legend top of the range and there were holes in both sides in the underside of the chain stays near the drop outs. the paint had flaked off revealing the holes and as far as i could see the carbon material was wafer thin and not crash damage.
American and an Irish bloke in a bar get chatting. American says he works for NASA. Irish guy says he lays flagstones for the council. American says " I'm an engineer, I work to tolerances of 1/10,000th of an inch. Irishman says " that's no good, my gaffer says I've got to be spot on " Now that is a joke, just like that frame.
Now I'm glad that I can't afford one. Thanks for the thorough review, and especially for the pictures of the headstock machining which is Crap by anyone's standards.
Why didnt owner just send it back for a replacement?
for another frame that will turn out to be just as bad
I know Carbon is tricky, and there were certainly serious faults everywhere that you pointed out....but did anyone else notice how lumpy the frame surface was? The light reflecting off the surface showed it was wavy. I would expect a work of art coming out of a shop like that at this price point. And the paint was a mess.
Could have 4 winspace frames and change for a few kebabs 😅
If the BB shell is square and faced, you could pop a couple of shims in there to keep the BB off the paint. I have noticed that most frames regardless of supposed "quality" are really quite sloppily done. Especially carbon fiber ones. There is a tool that can be made from metal shaped just like a bottom bracket that is pretty much the same as a facer to make that flat the way it was supposed to be. It would have been good if the frame builder would have used one before the thing was painted
Legend owners getting their pants pulled down, seen a few of these over the years. Not much better than the average Chinese frameset but £5k more expensive 'cause they got shiny paint....
No internal inspection as in endoscope? One has to wonder how poorly laid-up this thing might be if they cared so little on the bonded-in alloy bits. Will it separate into pieces on the first big bump or first big sprint?
Bertoletti won't publish prices on the their website. Don't trust anyone that will not tell you straight out how much something costs. I am more interested in the hairdressers scale of penetration.
Interesting tear down!
Any views on Sarto, an artisan Italian frame builder that makes made-to-measure carbon frames? I read somewhere they also build WindyMilla frames.
There were crap too. Have a search
Approximate machining is best description of this makers work, Good thing they dont make life rafts
Nice video. But consider ensuring a LARGE blank between the words 'pen' and 'is' when doing the pencheck unless you want to switch to youPorn. Or did I miss the joke and it was intentional? My wife and daughter had a good laugh anyway. Love your work, keep going!
We all know that custom made items are more expensive than mass produced, but this Legend frame is a total rip-off. I don't want to bad-mouth Italian artisan folks, but they're got some nerve and so entitled to charge over 6000 euro/dollar for mediocre quality workmanship.
The power of marketing....and people buying into it. Wanting to believe what they are told
What about the general measuremens of the frame - how accurate, how centre'd the rear triangle is etc etc.
Now I really want you to check Festka. I am thinking about buying their frame, but now caution is creeping in.
Before you buy it tell them you are going to send it to Hambini and add a link to this video. Hopefully they will make you a good one!
I would not be surprised if many artisan shops are not aware of variability in their prodiction process. Especially if it's not tragically bad and at the end everything "fits".
@@debelifratar they must know that facing the brake mount isn't a part of their process though. The mounts were like the surface of the moon.
The bog cleaner bit had me in stitches.
I picked up a brochure for Legend 'bikes' a few years ago. I was quite impressed by the jargon within, but upon seeing this, I can literally see how gash it is on my phone. That is dreadful even the finish alone/vs price tag.
The owner bought the bike and first thing he does is take it to you🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
I’ve built a few Legend’s in my time and also own a steel Legend and had a factory tour.That frame doesn’t look new at all as is claimed.
Can the owner produce the invoice to prove that it was brand new at time of delivery??
There really doesn't seem to be a perfect solution for carbon frames. Pressfit seems to be something where you only get a good one by chance because the tolerances needed for the bb to work correctly are way tighter than the frame manufacturing process allows for, and then you have bonded metal shells like bb30, bsa, and t47 where you know that one day it will de-bond from the frame, but at least you'll have higher precision, unless of course you buy one of the "artisan" frames.
If you would have LOOK or TIME frame, there would be no problem with quality and alignment.
@@MrSzwarz It's still molded, the manufacturing process isn't more precise, so then it just comes down to quality control, basically what percentage they're willing to toss. Metal bb shells make sense for the manufacturers though because they generally survive the warranty period.
i wonder how other industries do, are they as sloppy and QC-lacking as the bike industry or do they manage just fine and still make a decent profit? 🙄
Mill after demolding.
@@MrSzwarz Based on sample sizes of 1 or 2 that seems unlikely to be true.
Gave the buyer a big, Italian middle finger. Great business model.
Artisan = paying 7k for a handmade frame with piss poor tolerances, which is exactly the justification (read: rationalization) most owners would use, saying those “imperfections” give the bike its character..
"Character" is just an excuse to hide their ignorance and embarrassment.
@@Reanimator999 ‘you don’t realize bikes are emotion. Feeling those far from round holes just tells me the frame is made by a craftsman in his little hundred year old workshop as opposed to your run of the mill frame which was made by robots’.
@@Bonky-wonky It's the Emotion gets the worst of sound judgment. I made bad mistakes when I had emotion took charge of my finance in younger years. I got disappointed when I bought certain custom made item.
just barely missed the monitor when I spit coffee at the brightloo product placement goddamn