Discussion On Population Crisis in Asia (feat. Chris Williamson)
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2023
- @ChrisWillx is the host of the Modern Wisdom Podcast, RUclipsr and former club promoter. In this Asian Boss podcast episode, Stephen Park and Chris discuss the topic of declining birth rates in Asia. What are he potential reasons behind this trend and its consequential impacts?
Check out Chris on RUclips: / @chriswillx
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Really enjoyed this one, thanks for having me!
Sorry man, but neither China nor any other country is projected to have halve their population by 2050, that is nonsense. Even if they stopped having children altogether the population would only drop by ~15% by 2050, but that's far fetched.
As worrying as dwindling fertility rates are, we won't see any rapid population decline until the end of the century and that's quite a lot of time to turn things around. We haven't even seen the beginning of population decline yet, because so far, the increasing life expectancy has outweighed the low fertility.
@@oyuyuy Welcome to the modern world, where podcasters and youtubers have become pundits on every topic for the sole purpose of grifting.
We really enjoyed having you on, Chris! Congratulations on reaching 1 million RUclips subscribers!
@@oyuyuynah
@@sl1237people are free to question something
I have four kids and live in Japan. It was very difficult to raise them in Tokyo where living expenses are high and there are not enough childcare centers. However, after moving to Fukui-ken, a rural prefecture, raising them has become so much easier. I earn a decent amount of money (half of what I've earned in Tokyo, but more than enough to save up for my kids college), have a large house which I got for almost free, and very kind and caring neighbors. It wouldn't have been possible to have my third and fourth kid if I didn't move to the rural areas. Now, for Singapore, Hong Kong, or South Korea, living in rural parts of the country is not so popular (I mean, in Singapore or HK there isn't any "rural" areas, no?), so that must be hard.
im sorry to ask, but are you sir/ma,am native Japanese. and how old are you now.
@@bappyhasanjahid4985 My male cousin lives in Tokyo and only has two daughters.
Must be great. Especially the kind neighbors.
I read that the japanese government wants more people to move out to rural regions. I believe the government gives different economic incentives to citizens willing to move. The birth rate is just going to keep decreasing even more if citizens keep moving into cities. It needs to stop asap.
Corrwct me if Im wrong but theres more incentives if you have more kids there right? Oooh
Im a 33 y o lady, single, living in Manila. I know a guy who is 42 and single af.
Tbh guys? Like you two here in this video? If the cost of living here in our countries in South East Asia is bigger than how much our country's typical wages for employees not matching up?
Who cares about having kids? My parents had us because it was “easier” back in the 1980s-1990s to earn a living for a family of 4-5
Like I know you two are men... But would you guys want to have kids in this economy? My1000 now feels like its just 300. If the prices of goods and services decline and the amount of employee wages goes up?
Trust me. There would be a population boom. Its gonna be a nuclear explosion.
So our governments should be afraid. Be very afraid since their main source of growth are us. Their citizens. They cant depend on the elite 😅 but who they can depend on taxes are the middle class and the proletariat.
Spike the income of people? Expect babies being born left and right. Trust me.
Ask the conglomerates and their ceos if they want to give up their privileges to do so, and that’s not how capitalism works.
The corporations are seeking short term gains in profit and hope they will weather the long term.
Governments will evolve into feudalist controlled areas unless something is done to change this. The government is becoming simply an offshoot of corporate industry. We are evolving into a true fascist system with corporations, controlling the government or the government being an extension of corporate policy. This was extremely evident with the mandatory vaccines, vaccine passports and fast rollout of an untested vaccine. Government is looking to those who provide it with resources and money and that’s not the middle class anymore.
I was told by a Korean woman to stay away from Korean men. Mostly due to their parents. Maybe there's something to add to this conversation.
I love how Stephen Park took control of the perspective on Asia. I am not Asian but after returning from overseas, I was bothered by reading research or listening to news about Asia that I could suddenly see as so clearly only described from westernized perspective and frames, and I think it's the power of podcasts like these. And Chris's last comment about learning was amazing. This was an inspiring interaction.
5:50 South Korea birth rate 2022 is only 0.78 but if we eliminate rural areas and only focus on capital city Seoul brith rate is only 0.49
I'm living in Korea right now and the expectations for marriage are unrealistically crazy. You basically (as a man) are supposed to have everything financially set up perfectly (house, degree, good job, etc.) before you even start to consider marriage. I'm from that generation where we met the right person, fell in love, and got married. We started with no house, no degree, and not much money. We just had dreams of what we wanted to achieve together. We learned to budget together, make due with less, and grow and work toward our financial and family goals together. Those early years solidified our relationship. We actually have fond memories of those years when our furniture was hand-me-down stuff from our parents and bricks and boards for shelves. We had kids and didn't worry about how much they were going to cost -- we figured it out. We cherished our kids and family above everything else. Life and our relationship turned out great.
America is the same way now, before my grandma passed she said it saddened her to see what the times ahead were looking like. Rural Korea is a lil more forgiving and old school in a way, where people don't expect you to have it all and still has the community togetherness aspect, also alot cheaper cost of living wise.
I was there for 8 months. Like i was just a foreigner and I barely had any free time to even do anything fun in the country while i was there. It may just be western eyes or getting a bad school, but I don't see how people even function with the work culture that place demands.
Now tell me this. If you were a father and had an adult daughter that has her own career. Would you want her to marry or even have a future with a man that has no degree, career, skills or house?
That journey together, is the beauty of marriage
But m4n expect w4m4n to do everything for him and his family.
It's such an achievement of human beings to be able to flip the phenomen from "overpopulation" to "underpopulation" in such a short of time. Congrats!!!
thank you, feminism... lmfao
I don't think overpopulation was ever serious
@@RomeoMike22 It never was, just know-it-alls in their high-towers wanting to play god
Overpopulation has always been a meme and not serious.
Underpopulation is ALSO a meme and not serious.
If either were actual issues, you know governments would actually tackle the core issues:
1) Housing costs would have been slashed at least in half and FIXED, bust the landlord BS.
2) Mandatory education would be THOROUGHLY researched so that all who come out of the BASIC EDUCATION (primary + secondary school) would be functioning human beings in terms of producing capital AND have the skillsets to thrive in tertiary school.
3) Fatcats would be gutted by actually taxing them and said taxes would fund 1 and 2
@@joyhappiness I don't think you understand the implications of underpopulation to the productivity and economics of the entire planet. We will literally have collapses in multiple industries
It's an economic issue. When people are priced out of living a normal life, they adjust. The adjustment is not getting married and not having children. A marriage and raising children naturally has its challenges. When you add an extra layer of financial challenge to it, is it no wonder people are opting out? Colleges and universities are seeing drops in enrollment (at least here in the west) because it became outrageously overpriced. Health care here in the west has become grossly expensive, so we are seeing both a decline in health and for the first time in decades lifespan is decreasing. When the cost of living becomes too much for people to live, populations decrease. That's what we are seeing. It's an economic issue.
@@scottyoutube I'm not sure I follow you. Child support is a financial resource. This would affect a parent's ability to provide (goods and services) for the child. So, I still see this as an economic issue. There are laws and regulations that can economically make life harder, which is what you're describing. America had this too, but then the laws changed so that men would be held financially responsible even for a child born out of wedlock.
Couldn't agree more. The cause is rampant, unchecked parasitic capitalism. We pay more for things than ever before, but we get less and less in return. People all over the world are checking out and rejecting the shitty hands they're being dealt. If you combine all these issues with the rapid changes in technology we're seeing due to advancements in AI etc. Perfect storm.
I'm malaysian born in 1998, during high school its common for your peers to have 3 or 4 siblings, in fact I have 3 friends that have 10 siblings and its common here. However now I'm 25, I notice that my generation prefer to have fewer kids due to the economy unstability. Half of my married friends/cousins planning just to have 2 kids compare to my parents generation that having 6 or 7 kids consider norm back then. And this coming from me that have 6 siblings ✌
malaysian born in 2007 here the average ppl at my school is 4 sibling rare would be 5,6,7 and 1 or 2 sibling was also rare
As malaysian also.. During my highschool time from 1997 till 2001 there r 10 classes with 30++ students each class. Now my niece went to that similar school told me there r only 5 classes. 😮
As malaysia born 1998, I can say that yes the economy can be main point the problem but as muslim I will try my best to have good family
Fartherlessness doesn't only mean that the father is physically absent but also mentally and spiritually absent. That is almost as bad as a physically absent father.
Seperated farthers only 49% of them have regular contact (such as weekends and during school holidays). The rest have less than the weekend. How can you be spiritually present if your not Psysically pressent? Once a week is called good! Also only 20% of the young population in europe are Spiritual so you have false hope for this. 80% are matreialists.
You can’t have this conversation without women
They just did.
Yes we can. And we did. Open ur eyes.
Exactly.
Women are already having one side of the conversation. This social phenomenon is two sided. Men need better role models. This is crucial! DEI, ESG, entertainment and the Marxist education industry are destroying men. This needs serious attention
@@ohthankg-dforthebourgeoisi9800lol m4n are d4ing this to themselves.
Really needed Korean female input with this as conversation from male point if view missed many of the real reasons of population growth.
They could solve this, if men are being a "Good man" instead playing the game of "Alpha Man". women are not hard to get. But if most women are saying no to birth lol everybody know the problem is not the women it's the society 😂. Society always looking down at women, if they hate women so much let's just say no to birth and see how chaotic it will be.
To my understanding Korean women aren't having kids because there is a disproportional amount of pressure put on them afterward and beforehand. And that's one of a few reasons. Korea has some gender issues they need to work on that they have been called to work on by their people and have not addressed and that is a large part of this problem. Thank you for being one of the few people to actually bring up the fact that this is kind of a one sided conversation in that regard.
@@synthraofficial5366 Very one-sided. There seem to be very strong incentives for young woman not to want to get married and start families. It's not just a question of men not being able to afford to buy a house.
Thank you, I said the same thing. Women give birth, not men. Why is he only covering the male perspective on low birth rates in Korea?
@@donviajero2580 I literally didn't say anything like that. Did you read what I said? I said that a lot of women don't want to have kids there because there is a disproportionate amount of societal pressure put on them after they do and before hand. It's somewhat similar to the issue going on Japan where women feel trapped by motherhood because the society they are part of has deemed that they should all quit their jobs when they become mothers and give up everything they have worked for while also shaming and pressuring them for not becoming mothers, especially with the low birth rates. I said that was one of many unfortunate but completely understandable reasons. I didn't say anything about the failures of men in the country being able to buy houses.
In the Philippines, especially in the provinces, its not that much of a shock to see families with around ten or so kids. I've been told times before that the more children, there'd be more tasks ticked off. Child labor is a big issue all around the world, and it is something that should be looked into more. I believe that there's countless of Asian countries out there who are dealing with either an exvessive decline or increase in human population. Japan's shrinking these days, and it's quite concerning.
The birth rate is already dropped in the phillipines.
The real Problems at the Moment i think is Pakistan, iraq and yemen and Afghanistan.
Where the goverment dont Support shrinking birth Rates. :(
@@kornburg14 The highest birth rates are in Africa, Somalia, Nigeria and so on.
@@bendranski6882 i know but the biggist Problems are Nigeria and Pakistan.
Because they already have a Big Population and also ein high birth rate.
I only talked about Asia in the First comment :)
narcos will do the solution by importing ISIS to the Philippines so that America could sell weapons using taxpayer’s money and maharlika scam 🌸✌️
Philippines birth rate is down to 1.9 per woman as of 2022.
0:16: 💔 Low birth rates in South Korea and other countries are attributed to high costs of living, unaffordable housing, and compulsory military service for men.
3:34: 😱 Demographic collapse will lead to ghost towns and a shortage of people to care for the elderly, causing concern for the future.
6:37: 👨👦👦 There is a need for role models for men due to the fatherlessness epidemic and rapid cultural and technological changes.
10:03: 🌍 Chinese government bans K-pop to maintain control over rural areas while allowing access in wealthier cities.
14:11: 💡 The legacy media is losing credibility, and independent creators are gaining influence in media consumption.
16:47: 🤔 Being open to changing your mind and admitting when you're wrong is an important skill that promotes personal growth and societal progress.
Recap by Tammy AI
🎉
AI to rescue!
@@jadenkarim5367Sad world if that’s the solution…
5:50 South Korea birth rate 2022 is only 0.78 but if we eliminate rural areas and only focus on capital city Seoul brith rate is only 0.49
Role model for men? I don’t even understand it since men never took care of children. It’s always women that had to work at house and also do childcare.
I think the East-west collaboration of content providers like this is great!! Let’s see more!
em only if the WEST is fluent in their language as well.
@@cinnamonstar808 that would help
I spilled my cup of ramen noodles while watching this. RIP noodles 🍜 😔
😔
Press F to pay respect 🍜
F🍜
F 🍜
F
Meanwhile I'm just sitting here being childfree
This is a good topic to discuss, but I felt the conversation sort of drifted away to gender roles and expectations more than the problem itself. It’s as if only men are not able to live up to those “unrealistic” expectations that they are forced to give up on reproduction. Sure, this maybe one of the reason but it just feels very odd to see how this conversation progressed so deeply into just that one factor. Would be good to have a little more structure to cover more breadth to this sort of big topics in the future.
Meh
I think it's because this was one section of a larger podcast covering general topics
It's funny how I grew up in a society where masculinity and masculine values were deemed superior and more helpful for society, but as time went on, all these masculine supremacists see themselves failing in terms of success compared to feminine women. Chris doesn't want to admit he wants to re establish masculine values that put everyone else (women and queer men) at the bottom of the hierarchy. He repeatedly brings up to topic of gender roles as if everything has to do with men being less masculine.
How can they talk about female prospective. They are only giving male side of things.
This is what it boils down to:
• Women have high expectations
• Men can’t fulfill those expectations due to crappy economy
• Women don’t want to get married.
• Men can’t afford marriage.
I am not Asian. I’m an American who grew up very abused but fairly well educated. I never married or had any children. I didn’t feel able to raise children without potentially ruining their lives, too. I wonder with all the pressures on Asian children if that’s also a factor in choosing to remain childfree. Also, it’s not clear how fewer children leads to disaster. There won’t be a fix without a vision of it truly being a problem (not just a difference)
I agree. I don't understand why we should be panicking over this. It is most likely a naturally occurring event. Not only are women choosing not to have children but male and female infertility has become high as well. The planet is overpopulated so this may just be a naturally occurring phenomenon.
Bro, don't victimize yourself even if it was true. The victimization box is the biggest downfall for lots of people. You can have a great family with efforts and hope.
@@ericsohn9133I also chose to not have children. Mostly because I don't want them but also because of my own traumatic upbringing. It's not a victimization thing. It just puts into perspective what really matters in your life and what you feel capable of doing. No one who doesn't feel capable of becoming a parent should become a parent. Kids aren't toys. If you feel like you aren't ready for them, then you aren't ready for them. Listen to your gut.
@@synthraofficial5366 Understood. But I would still like to tell you not to close the door completely. We simply do not know what is going to happen in the future.
@@ericsohn9133 That’s a good message for most people to see in that situation. I’m way past that age now. You’re kind to be encouraging
I'm Japanese and know the reasons why the birth rate got lower in Japan. The main reasons for the decline in the birth rate are :
1. "Increased cultural freedom" where marriage and childbearing are no longer the norm,.
2. "Not everyone has enough income to marry and have children in low-growth economy.
Other developed countries like Germany and Italy also have the birth rate gotten lower.
However I don't believe decreasing population is worse than over population. As a matter of fact, it's impossible to maintain the growing population forever by economic and enviromntental reasons.
I agree with your first point. As for the second point, the simple solution is families living in bigger homes where all families can share expenses. Instead of each one renting an apartment, they can rent a big house and live together until they can afford to buy a second home, etc..
@@MaSa-bp5qe The change to nuclear families (not living with parents or siblings) is probably one of the factors driving the declining birthrate. If children lived with their parents or siblings, the burden of living expenses and child-rearing would be reduced.
@@morisoba2550 Yeah. That seems to be the only viable solution for these times.
I think once the population has sttabilized it’s fine but the generation where it shifts it’s Gonna be very very hard on the country and society . It could be possible to break the economy for a long time . We have the decline in Germany too and it’s scary , the boomers are now retiring and their pension is not enough . Lots of people will be living in poverty even in a country like Germany . Because not enough young people to cover for the old. It’s a domino effect. Since they can’t let the old starve , they need to raise the taxes. And there is few work force which lowers the production. The you generation feel suffocated and either don’t birth children or worse high performers leave the country . Same for companies they leave the country to better tax and cheaper work force . So please don’t talk about things you don’t know about . You have clearly no idea about economics, just some woke person is blinded about environmental issue . You can’t sacrifice everything for environment, what you get it actually not environmental friendly. You have a find a solution considering the whole situation, cause believe it or not you can make it worse even if your intentions are good due to ignorance. In Germany the Green Party is really strong they are against nuclear all for renewable . However they didn’t consider the financial aspect and how log it will take . People can’t even afford to heat their home nowadays due to rising energy you think they care about the every source ?? So the Green Party resorted to coal since Russian cut their gas. Effectively the Green Party wanted to save the environment but we facto Germany is using more coal than ever the dirtiest source of all. You tell me what went wrong ? Do you think they should have insisted on reweable energy at the cost of human life ? That would match your point which is decrease the population even more . As bs you get rid of all poor people till the rich font have any people to care for them when they are old . Now what
Really makes you wonder how good is this economic system if it doesn't even allow us to have kids 🤔
It’s the work-life balance. If you don’t have any time for yourself, how can you have time for a child? These kids, who are now adults, saw the parents who worked all day and never had time for them. I’m sure those same kids don’t want the same future for themselves…it’s just not possible.
Definitely not just in those countries. I am 30 and come from an upper middle class in one of the other cities in South East Asia, I’d say almost 95% of friends my age are not married, and of those who are, none of them have a child yet.
I think that we, humans, are so disconnected from nature that we cannot accept or recognize that population changes are part of a system of homeostasis. I see population decrease as a solution for a change in perspective for our economic systems and better distribution and utilization of natural resources and services. The old paradigm of frantic competition for survival can change with a new way of thinking world wide. What we see now is the old system of thought, governance, power , etc. fighting for survival. Transition is always painful but what can follow will be the next step in our evolution.
Very underated comment. When you put it that way... this is the way of nature I guess.
Bravo 👏 Well said
Ever heard of malthusian agenda? There are people pushing this, people in power eho wants to put collar around your neck.
+
Our role models should be trust, honour, integrity, genuine, humble & intelligent. Screw these "influencers" 🙄
Lol true
Williamson is part of that very segment.
That ghost cities phenomenon is already happening in Japan where schools are shutting down in some places because there aren’t enough children there. It’s an early sign of the trend…
Yup, well documented, especially by local media.
I'm sorry but in my country the US it seems like only the people who really benefit from the birthrate not being low is the government & the wealthy. They claim we don't have enough to support the growing elderly (when our life expectancy ages are actually going down by the way so most are not living long enough compared to other countries of the world) but our system of government is run horribly mismanaged with it's funds and majorly inefficient. The gap between the poor and rich is huge with the middle class being almost nonexistent. My government only seems concerned that the money won't be rolling in from all the labor while major corporations & the 1% barely pay taxes etc. It really makes me raise an eyebrow when people in this modern age are so concerned about shrinking birthrates when the population is huge. When we have so many unwanted or neglected children given up for adoption while others are taken from homes because their families are too poor to properly care for them etc. And my government isn't giving that many proper incentives to have children like paid maternity leave or reasonable costing healthcare that isn't abysmal in coverage. When I see other countries like Denmark, Finland, Germany having better quality of life in general with better assistance being a parent. Asia I'm sure is different in some ways when it comes to the issue but I'm always a bit skeptical about motives behind discussing birth rates.
Well Denmark, Finland and Germany have lower birth rates than the US and their demographic situations are extremely bad
As a German, I can say that from an in-country perspective: Germany does not have good child care facilities (lack of professional staff), or enough of them.
Yes, there are lots of benefits - prolly much more than in the US. (There is, in fact, a German sentiment that goes "At least it's not as bad here as in the US.") But things are overall not looking good for parents over here. Consequently, our birthrate is low, too.
@@IceQueenaliasIQIt probably won't help us that more and more Germans want less immigrants but don't care about our low birth rates
It's not a conspiracy, it's just basic math and economics. If fewer people are born then we're all going to get old and not have enough younger people available to perform the necessary labor to support us in our old age.
not at all surprised this is happening to korea the first and foremost. the “traditional” gender roles there, their men’s common mindset and their refusal to adapt to the 21st century is literally the biggest reason what led to this population trend. there i said it.
You mean crisis in east Asia not Asia
Please, don’t be that person
@@Narodov1 'It' has a K-pop idol pfp. What do you expect?
Japan should do what the west did. Import population. Racial diversity is our strength right? Make 30-40% of Japan non Asian/ Japanese.
bro stfu its not that deep
Nah. /
Off the top of my head:
1) With the advance in technology, we won't need that many people in labor-consuming manual jobs like cleaning, manufacturing, etc.
2) The issue of the population decrease can be easily solved by fixing Korea's immigration regulations.
3) Work culture (including 회식) is already slowly but steadily changing. People get more free time.
4) People don't want to live in smaller towns because of the lack of well-paid jobs. Almost all companies have their main offices in Seoul. Even in Busan, finding a good position in some spheres is troublesome.
5) The issue with the property market seems to be artificial. If not for the government, the prices would have already drastically dropped. Solve this, and people will have kids more willingly.
6) If you think it's hard for a guy to date in Korea, try to date guys. And it's not about money. Many Korean guys who are on the apps are childish, immature, often toxic, and sometimes creepy, and see females (at least foreign) as an accessory. Maybe it's different for Korean ladies, but I find it extremely hard to date in Korea as a foreigner. And from what I see in the female groups, I am not the only one.
7) You also failed to mention that although Korean guys lose 2 years in the army (which is sad) when they go to work, they are, as a general rule, paid more than females for the same kind of job (because "they need to provide to their families").
Nailed it! It's a disingenuous conversation to not suss out these issues. Look at the economic structure alone--EVERYTHING is in Seoul. What industry, entertainment, etc is done to keep people in Busan, Daegu, Ilsan. Make policies that support women wanting to have children--you can talk a/b men all day...but guess what?--trans men aside, it's women who have babies. So support women and gender equity policies. Listen to women!!
Immigration is a band aid. What good is it doing for France and Sweden?
@@1971giftthey are not going to listen what women want .These men with their tradional mindset about gender roles don t give a F. They want submission and nope is not going to happen 😅. Big and fat middle finger to that BS. Freedom is a raw instinct . Women from west and east , ( korean ones in this case ) wanna be free to make choices and if they have a partner wanna be treated like an equal. If korean men don t change the mindset can stay alone foreva. Tradition can be ok if it s balanced but it s oppression if one dominate on the other. And always women are the victims. Too risky.
I don't know how strict are in Korea, but "easing immigration rules", definitely does not "solve" anything, but only "patches" it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it, I'm one of them in Japan (which has the same problem), but it's like paying a loan with another loan... A country should be able to solve its population crisis by itself.
Also, the amount of population itself doesn't matter, an stable demographic pyramid does, and right now, countries like south Korea, Japan, or Spain, doesn't have it...
What do you mean by childish and immature
Two people working 60 hours a week wile the Government raises their children.
Why ???
Because the corporate overlords need your future wage slaves to make a new yacht purchase possible.
Also Spain has 0.789 birth rate, but our problem is even worse than Korea: 14% unemployment (although down from 24% in 2014), very high prices (although "only" 85% of those in Germany), but also very low salaries (50% of those in France or Germany, and 40% of salaries in Netherlands or Denmark). An engineer, a teacher or a doctor are lucky if they get more than 30K/year, while tax brackets rise to 45% if you earn more than 60K euros (85M wons). However in Korea, tax brackets rise to 45% when they reach 1 billion wons (706K euros).
u need to get some of the latino from south america to relocate to spain
@@laujack24 More? We have 5 million of them, quite an invasion
@@BlackHoleSpain how can u called them an invasion when u both speak the same language, and u r their former colonial master lol.
In this day and age, why would a woman want to marry if she is well educated, financially independent, and has a pet? Mothers are not celebrated in society and are seen as less than a woman.
I agree mothers are ditched for "hotter" younger women
I love being married. I love living with and caring for my husband. I love being loved and knowing that we've agreed to deal with life together. I love the safe sex and the connection. I can keep going....
I just want to say that I've heard in several conversations that people are concerned about the birth rate because of the effect it will have on the economy. I couldn't care less about the economy. No one is owed human labor, and no one should have to have kids to provide low wage workers to corrup companies. It's a talking point I keep hearing come up and it rubs me completely the wrong way.
Fair, but (provided there are good wages) there is a problem bigger than the economy. Folks (especially those who favor lots of benefits and welfare etc and will tend to be liberal and not interested in children) seem to forget that they will get old. They WILL need someone to eventually take care of them. They will NOT be able to have half the benefits they expect without young folks to support it. Forget low wage stuff... what about doctors, engineers or humanitarian relief? All that requires a steady replacement with young folks OR a HUGE change in future expectations in terms of what a country will do for its citizenry. Which is fine! But low birth rates and high benefits CANNOT last together for long. That is the crux of what folks are worried about.
@@Tripps2564 children are not a retirement plan. If you think they are, good luck finding out the hard way.
@@Tripps2564 but if representatives (the conservative ones) are trying to gut social security anyway, why push yourself over the poverty line to raise another unreliable source of retirement security? A lot of people just can't afford childcare and don't have a village. What they expect from their government may be partly what's driving that decision to not have kids. Just based on my observations. Rock vs hard place.
There is too much pressure for Korean people.
Japan, Singapore, and Korea, unlike China or the USA, don't have abundant natural resources. Instead, they rely on the quality of their human resources to maintain competitiveness.
Data just came out that the birthrate in China has declined even more from last year, and in tier 1 cities, birthrate is below South Korea. One of the main reasons I think is the traditional value of having the men own a place to live as a prerequisite to be able to marry. The other problem is that babies born out of wedlock is looked down upon by society, thus further bottlenecking reproduction with marriage as prerequisite. Lastly, the younger generation definitely value their personal experience in life above the need for babies, where that would most likely a result in lowering their quality of life.
Yeah, f kids! I hate kids!
From my perspective young men don’t want to get married early in their careers, there’s a real drive to get to some professional success/income level first. That’s on top of other anxieties about the divorce rate. Dated someone from 25-28, they were 3 yrs older they did not see themselves getting married anytime in the near future. So I ended it.
It was an interesting conversation but there are things that you guys don't consider next to high costs for living, raising children and father figure loss.
1. Korea and Japan are highly educated societies. People are able to look at the world of climate change, constant wars (also now in the West) and economical crisis and ask themselves whether they want to do this to a new human being. In Korea the hustle culture, education pressure and competition in all aspects of life make it even harder.
2. Highly educated women desire a life for themselves, careers, money, a bit of luxury and happy times with a man and their friends in the few hours they have left after working for a living.
3. The ideal of a mother in society ignores the fact that a woman sacrifices her youth and her dreams for giving birth and raising a child. Men, whilst helping if they are good men - do not have body changes, they don't cary and nuture the child. They often don't get up every 2 hours, having no sleep. In the years after MOM is the most usee word for a child. Getting up in the morning, dressing children, making breakfast, cooking, cleaning. The list goes on and on. No matter how developed we get as societies we still don't get the amount of pressure and life time a woman gives up for the new human being. No man will ever reapect and understand that really.
Women as women disappear as well once they become mothers. They will only be seen as mothers for most of the rest of their lives. Not as attractive and beautiful women who want to do this and that. They are only wanted for advice in child care and cooking. Hollywood is the same where women of a certain age just disappear. They enter the stage as grandmas later. A lot of women want to stay relevant as themselves. Men don't get treatment like that in society.
4. We do have overpopulation in other countries which is bad for the planet as well.
I wish that those people in Japan and Korea who really want to be parents get a better system and support from the state. It would be a shame if such great cultures disappear because we did not help.
For all those people who don't want childen: do as you please. You only have this one life.
Briefly: The different types of masculinity that kpop and kdramas promote are good for society and help reduce stereotypes for men, that they have to comply with. The more we accept men showing who they really are, the freer we get.
Not everything that Jordan Peterson says is as accurate for everyone as he often likes to think, but he's better a role model than so many influencers online, pretending wealth and good skincare are enough to trick a woman into doing everything. The question: Where are the dads? Is real. Waiting for men to make being a dad cool again.
I think the issue is that mothers aren't honered by society anymore.
Humans want to have high status and be valued by society
@@gilgameschvonuruk4982 Nah, its usually tied to financial instability and hostile social circumstances. Women who enter employment delay childbirth because if they have an income, they don't have to put up with men they don't want to be with whereas in the old days, they couldn't afford to leave. They lived the life of maid, sex slave, and caregiver nurse to their husbands in exchange for a roof over their head, not any more. But single mothers still bear the burden of paying to raise their child and day care costs. It's money.
Totally agree with your opinion, having gone through this exactly. I felt like my 4 years of tertiary studies had gone to waste after raising 3 kids. I lost 13 years of working experience and income while raising my kids. At times, I even have to endure comments such as, "you are just a housewife" from unappreciative family members.
This is why I advise my 2 daughters to never give up their career after childbirth if they want to be respected in the society. This will automatically mean they will have less children than me, or none at all.
@@elainev670 I am sorry to hear thar but it's often the truth. My best friend went through the same situation but as a single mother who had to fight for getting a career to take back what was hers and feed the two of them. I never wanted children because I wanted to live life and my character (interests, passions, career, friends) completely. But I wish women who want to become mothers, have a chance at life after that again and are respected and seen as women. I tried to do this with my best friend, supporting what she loved and what made her ache or feeling not seen. I rarely talked about her child with her and still get along well with the son. It's possible, we only have to choose it.
I’ve seen this argument many times, but it can’t be the only factor because 1) the nordic countries are arguable the most (or closest) you can get to addressing the inequalities (childcare, labour etc) yet there birth rates are still FAR from replacement level. Heck even North Korea has a higher birth rate then the South and Nordic countries. The reality is even if you mitigate for those factors people are still choosing not to have as many children.
What we need to do is now start adapting society to an increasingly older population, rather then hanging on to the idea of perpetual growth.
Not crisis, Im glad there’s gonna be fewer people in Indonesia especially Jakarta, it’s so crowded here
I dont think that having remote role models are going to substitute the need of a father, the interactions, the guidance and affection of a father can never and will never be substitute by no influencer. We need to have conversacions about what is driving families to be fatherless in the west, what can everyone in society as an individual, government and system do. Social media has evident negative impact in people's lifes, let alone the impact its having in this overall situation.
This was a good discussion, hope we see more of these panels 🙏🙏🙏
Regarding Korea's particular situation, it will be interesting to see the points of view discussed by korean sociologists, economists and psychologists. You can also do a separate panel with young people to see what they think about the situation and what solutions they consider could help. Additionally, perhaps bringing another panel of both young and elder koreans to discuss these issues as there is indeed a generational gap, therefore it would be interesting to have them discuss how elements particular to korean society might be affecting younger generations negatively and how elders perceive this.
The moment you realize that too much perfection in your society affects everything. "Big time"
Stephen Park is a Korean-Australian. I don't know if it is appropriate to ask him the reason for Korea's population decline. And feminine to the
Men of the compulsory conscription nation?isn't it racist?the reason for the decrease in the Korean population is education, competition, and
Money. The more educated you are, the less likely you are to have children, especially if you are not religious.
the fact that he sees himself as a "role model" made me 🤮🤮🤮
Cry less
@@balabanasireticry more
i think the difficulty with such a discussion comes with how personal it is to the individual. bringing life into this world is such a monumentous decision and it takes a lot of convincing to change your mind on such a topic. there's plenty of people i graduated high school alongside who are already on their first or second child, but the government is gonna have to get creative with its tactics to convince someone like me (queer 21F) to carry a child for 9 months and nurse them to adulthood, let alone convince me to want multiple kids. unfortunately telling people "(insert job) is gonna have too many openings in 50 years" isn't quite a strong enough argument for the everyday people doing the process of conception, gestation, childbirth, and paying expenses for that child for 17+ years of their life.
Global population hit 8 billion… we got plenty …
Globally there is 8 lightning strikes every second. It amzingly dangerous out there. Globally 56 million pepole die every year. You think you will live forever?
The discussion actually went no where… waffling.
Same thing is happening to india.
First time.i am seeing elementary schools in the neighbourhood announce seats are available for students.
Students are slowly disappearing
I thought it was bad in our state
@@scottyoutubeindia's population was always more comparatively, but the birth rate now is declining, it's 2 for now, A country needs a healthy birth rate to support the population. And these documentaries show a very tiny part of the actual truth. That's not true for the whole country which is very diverse and have different cultures.
@@scottyoutube you don't know why so many people apply for a government job, it's not that it pays high, but it's the fact that govt jobs are considered very prestigious in our culture and it gives a sense of security. If you are in a govt job and earn half of what the other person earns in a private institution, you are still given more respect as our elders think that contributing directly to the government is an honour. And these exams are not easy, people spend so much money, time on the coaching and preparation.
Yes there is a lack of awareness, and people have some prejudice against other low skilled jobs. That's why there is so much competition.
I don't think extinction would be a bad idea. (I'm not kidding.)
It's the culture. Asian culture is all about driving people to have a successful life and not a happy life. I am a Korean and I just feel this kind of mindset so deeply entrenched in the whole society. I am pretty sure it's the same thing for Taiwan China Singapore Japan.
No Asians are K selected. R selection fast life history strategists is what Asia needs
It sure is, along aide with japan. Unfortunately, the nations listed all have Confucianist cultures.
Im coming from Asian too! thank god i found one good men 😂 imma keeping him! the culture in Asian could be so toxic, and I agree that the elderly want us to archives successful life... but for what? I choose happiness instead, idc. Live is hard enough
@@dandankokorohikareteku2620 R selected people are like the film Idiocracy, and we don't need that.
As soon as you guys invoked the name of Dr. Word Salad, I kind of tuned out. The man is a charlatan.
They all are. This is just another change that folks don't want. We will be just fine.
Im, still in my 20s I'm happy to observe this world toward hell🤣💀
Hi, I found it weird that every time I see these types of videos, It's men talking. Men being feared that there are fewer kids here and there. Don't get me wrong, men are part of this conversation, but I have never heard of a country where women want kids but can't because men won't. So in the end the biggest power is among women because their lives have always been the most affected before and after a child is born and during the 9 months of the prenancy too obviously. It is all the same everywhere in the world. Women would give you the exact same answer.
The person talked about women in African countries, too. Well, we are in 2023. There was a time when birth control did not exist or was dangerous. Now it's different, so the unwanted hoops babies barely exist. There was a time when women were not allowed to work so taking care of babies was an occupation for them to fullfill their days and themselves even when they had not enough money, taking care of kids made them needed. There was a time when women had no independence even when they were working. Getting a job, a bank account without the approval of a man, brother was impossible and that was not long ago. There was a time were the income of a man was enough to raise a family. There was a time were couple did not divorce now it's commun and each person has to be independent financially in order to survive so women better work too...
There was a time women did not think before having kids (do I want them or not ...) they felt they had to even when they did not want too no matter their reasons society told them it is your duty and too many women ended up in terrible situations.
Times have changed. Women have learned watching their mothers, aunts etc and now they have the choice for all the reasons mentioned above... More women do not want kids or want less for the reason mentions. At the same time some women who want kids or more can't because of the same reasons. If you want those women who want them to have more kids, then policies should be put in place to protect them financially if a divorce occurs with their partner. Policies should be put in place to protect their job when they have to leave to take care of the kids. Help should be put in place to help families who need help financially to raise kids... Men should fully participate in home chores when their wife goes back to work.... As for the women who choose to not have kids or less of them, you won't change their mind. Women think very long before taking that decision and it's not an esay one to take. They are aware of the consequences (good and bad) and fine with them . Nobody should force anyone to have kids. Kids are not toys. If you're not ready to take care of them, whether you have a lot of money or not, you should not have them. There is enough traumatized kids on earth and those women got that. Their choice to not have kids is not selfishness it's actually the opposite. You should never have kids to please numbers and others.
So glad someone said this, and disappointed these perspectives weren't raised in the video.
🎉🎉🎉🎉
Meh
Totally agree!
EXACTLY!
I think an important part of the conversation is, how do we address the real fears and concerns of people who choose to be childfree. It's too dismissive to say that it's because there are no "father figures" or lack of role models.
There is a fatherless epidemic so men don't know how to be men.
How to address their fears?
What are their fears?
Are they really tell the truth? There can be controversial reasons they'll not tell. They'll spill out any bulls*it.
Ill tell you: If we need people marrying and having children we need the same reasons that drove us the desire to have children before.
@@randomcoggles3805 you're assuming it was actual desire and not cultural/social convention. In religious countries (most) girls are married off young with no education or regard given to her personal desires (if she developed any yet) and they're told it's God's will to submit to your husband's urges on his schedule. If you got pregnant, you got pregnant. If the pill had been on the market 20, maybe even 15 years earlier...the baby boomers might have a different name. As countries become less religious there's generally more thought put into reproduction. Not across the board obviously but way more commonly. Without a catastrophe there's no going back to a time when much of reproduction involved financial coercion ("marry young or live poor").
Since corporations run the world, they're gonna have to decide between long term and short term priorities.
@@AnaBanana-yk9px but did men ever take part of parenting in the first place? How do men teach sons to be father when they themselves aren’t fathers. Just people who bring money to the table. Men never learned how to be fathers in the place for them to teach their sons. If it’s just bringing money to the table, that’s not called being a father
in this economy,we just can't afford to married,let alone having babies
왜 한국 여셩 전문가들에게 이것에 대해 묻지 않습니까? 이 백인 대신?
Then why do u watch Korea related things even after being a person from West.
@@Human_019 I'm from Korea.
@@stoneself Do u live in Korea. I don't think so. And are u ethnically entirely Korean. I don't think so.
If the global economy wasn't based on continual and forever growth and we lived a life where people just took and used what they needed, would that work? Sure there will probably be much less innovation and increase in technology, but I think it would be much more sustainable for humans and Earth. I wonder if the population shrinking will be as devastating as they state. There will def be a painful transition points, (less people to take care of elderly, less people in the workforce, etc) but I think ultimately having a less consumeristic world might be better for the world
Who would get to decide what and how much you can "take" for yourself in that scenario? And who do you take it from?
F Jordan Peterson. Andrew Tate. LOL
I don't see why shrinking populations are a problem. I think it is alarming that there are so many countries that are overpopulated already - in the sense that they can't live off their own land or only survive by slowly or quickly depleting their natural resources. That said, in some countries like in Korea the population is shrinking at an alarming rate which is very difficult to adapt to. And the argument that we always need constant growth is the dumbest one since this economic doctrine has first been taught. Infinite growth with finite resources and finite time for consumption cannot work in the long run.
right? I think so too, It’s kinda the best things for the world right now. would slow climate change too. We are simply overpopulated and face countless problem because of this. of course missing only the young generation will create problems too. I guess there will be a painful transition phase….
I think it's just a natural exponential growth which leads to collapse. The part about climate change is actually very complicated. The moment there are more resources available and the prices are lowered of said resources, people will start to use as much of them as possible which will actually lead to deceleration of the advancements of technology in the field, because there will be no demand for fossil free alternatives when there is no pressure to keep lowering the consumption.
I think the problem is when the shrinking happens too fast.
Because of our modern healthcare, this will cause a situation where the retired, older people will heavily outnumber the younger working population, which will lead to massive problems.
I can partially agree with you, but your argument kinda missing the whole point. The "big thing" is..."rapid change", I mean of course this world doesn't always need constant growth given the limited resources, but it all happen super quick, not hundred year, not 1-2 generations....but just every 10 years it shows pretty big and noticeable difference. Like he said in the video about school, like 20 years ago a school can have new 150 students every year, now it's like 10-30, something like that is disturbing...you absolutely can't change my view on that. But again, for me personally, Japan and South Korea is big countries and I don't really think shrinking population is massively concerning, at some point in the future they will use some of their "power" to fix these issues no problem
Sigh, where do i begin? Video games have been around since 1971, go look it up. This reminds me of a conversation with chat GPT. Hallucinating with confidence in a British accent . This conversation is really, (I hate to say it because it sounds so unkind) juvenile. It shows a lack of understanding of the world in the past, the present, and the foreseeable future. Invoking images of there being too many dead bodies around for people to bury is so patently ridiculous and alarmist that I have to wonder a lot about the sanity and agenda of Chris Williamson. And then the underlying agenda slips through when they start talking about dating. News flash to the under 40 crowd: Guys have been frustrated about dating forever. Women are not required to deal with you. This is a real spin off the track for Asian Boss from what I've seen before. World war II was devastating for Korea. The Korean war was devastating for Korea. 60 years of occupation by the Japanese was devastating for Korea yet Korea today is stronger now than it has ever been in its history. The same can be said for present day Japan as well as China. I want everyone to think about that when they are listening to this ridiculous conversation. As a topic declining birthrates has some merit to discuss. But China got along very well with less than 1.3 billion people in the past. The world didn't grind to a halt over the 20 million dead in Europe after World War II. There WERE people around to bury the bodies and rebuild. You don't HAVE to keep growing without limit. Looking at the comments and just listening to the beginning of this I would have to assume that post-war Japan and post-war Korea were in an economic condition where everyone was able to afford their own house and every family was living in the lap of luxury? We all know that that's not true. Expectations are higher now.
That's one of the factors. 30 something year olds sitting around musing about conditions 30 years before they were born doesn't make for a particularly enlightening interpretation of these events. If Chris Williamson thinks that his parents didn't have access to porn I can only think that his parents were born sometime in the mid-1800s. So called porn was available everywhere. It just took the form of something that he's not familiar with, it was printed in something called "magazines". Tell him to ask daddy about home movie and slide protectors and "stag films". Oh by the way, the end of the Korean war saw a huge number of refugees coming from North Korea into South Korea The north was industrial, the south largely agricultural and we all know that agricultural regions don't tend to have high population densities. It could be expected that there would be a larger population just after the war and an increase in the decades after the war, that it would level off, and perhaps even drop a bit. Once universal child care and women's abilities to have children and meet their own needs are met within a relationship of trust where they feel satisfied, things can balance out. South Korea has never had as large a population as say Han China and this could be for many reasons. Most North Asian countries do not have huge population densities like South Asian countries.This has been historically true. China sits in the middle. Northern China never achieved the population density of southern China. Mongolia is a vast country with only 3 million people.Siberiais also higher whilst population density is extremely low. One fact could be that people tended to just have more children in the past. There was less or 0 access to birth control, and as standards of health care rose, as vaccinations and ability to deal with infectious disease which kills a lot of children in their early years fell, you would see a rise in population.
No country will halve their population by 2050, that's an outrageous exaggeration. For developed countries, populations could decline by 0-10%, and pretty much all undeveloped countries will have a very large increase in population.
Population depends on a county's mRNA vaccination rate.🤭🤭🤭For jabbed fools, seeing 2030 is a luxury.
His data is by 2100 not 2050. But pop ests keep getting revised down,
@@jk0621 No, he specifically said 2050 and I know that's what his (terrible) source says too.
Maybe A.I. and robotics have come along just in time.
Korea and Japan are doing the right thing , all countries need to action and follow.
Back then if you build family you will become more productive, but today if you buikd a family there's more liability
The problem isn't fewer people...countries like Iceland, Norway, Finland work perfectly despite having small populations...the problem is AGING
Countries will end up with half of their population composed of over-70-year-olds that won't be able to contribute to the economy and there will not be enough people to care after them.
Just as an example, my country (Italy) used to have around 8 active workers for every retiree in the 1960s, it was around 4-5 around the 1980s, now it's around 2-3, and if the birth rates keep stagnating, or even worse declining from the already apocalyptic 1.1 we have right now, we will 1 worker for every 1 retiree by the 2060s (and I am being relatively optimistic, since funnily enough we also have a high unemployment rate, which is quite counterintuitive)...a country simply cannot function with so many elders, the system will collapse at some point
Steven spent the whole discussion blindly agreeing with this self proclaimed “expert’s” opinion, and spent the entire last half of the discussion ingratiating himself to the guy. Total cringe.
I really hate this new format. It made more sense when Steven interviewed real experts (ie Professor Kim).
I’m no CNN/Fox News fan, but these RUclipsrs who are trying to present themselves as the “new media”, are just trying to get rich quick. There’s no legitimate substance to most of what they say. No thanks.
Is Chris an expert at anything?
The biggest mistake here is they didn’t include women when talking about a birth rate.
It is a WOMAN who gives birth and often the discussion rules out women and men think they can solve the problem without understanding what women think.
I am one who is exercising the 4B movement.
It’s very reasonable for Korean women not to want kids where companies can freely fire women for getting pregnant and not employing women with kids.
Plus Korean women do 5 times more of house chores and raise children as if they are single mothers.
When parents in law are ill, it is also women’s jobs to take care of them even if they are not your birth parents even more than their son.
How about violence against women and very lenient punishment on them?
I don’t date because I can easily be a victim and I know there won’t be justice for me at court in case of violence.
The only reason why men seem to be more serious on birth rate issues than women is because the whole labor around birth and rearing falls on women’s plate not theirs.
Would you still have a child if you had to say bye bye to your career for good for the rest of your life?
Would you date when you became a victim of violence and the court just forgives the criminal to walk free?
Would you walk into the patriarchy by yourself if you are going to be the lowest end of hierarchy to the family you marry?
All of the traits of marriage reminds me of domestic slavery.
You’ll very quickly turn not to if you are a reasonable person.
I’m sure the birth rate is going to be 0.6 soon in Korea.
How about not firing women for getting pregnant?
How about Korean men to do more house chores and rearing kids?
Korea doesn’t have babies because it does not deserve them and has been shoving all the work to women.
Women do not want to be a domestic slave just like blacks don’t pick cottons anymore.
Are you Korean? Is 4B nomenclature just in Korea?
@@matrices3987 Yes, I am. I believe so.
비혼 is pronounced as BeeHon meaning not marrying.
비출산 is pronounced as BeeChoolSan meaning not birthing.
비연애 is pronounced as BeeYonAe meaning not dating.
비섹스 is pronounced as BeeSex meaning not having sex.
That is why it is called 4B movement 😅
you explained very well the reason behind the low birth rate in Korea. The same reasons apply to the western world (hence the low birthrate): women in Europe or US are still discriminated against in the workplace (no promotion if they become a mom, harrassment, the glass ceiling) and fired at will, are expected to take care of the child by themselves (taking care of a child is seen as "feminine", and the guys don't bother), can be ditched by the guy at all times as cheating is glorified and seen as "masculine". Same on domestic violence & r4p3 culture: a woman walks in fear of being assaulted in Europe & US. To have good birth rate, both men and women should THRIVE and FEEL GOOD and CONFIDENT about bringing a child into the world.
bravo! very well said and summarized. plus men are often uncommitted players who just use women as sex toys.
개지랄하고 있네 ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ 돈은 동일하게 안 벌면서 동일한 노동을 주장하는게 누군데
With few children in the neighborhood, it puts pressure on the parents who have children who are naturally noisy growing up. And the elderly around them can make the parents feel like a neighborhood nuisance. A collectivist society where asserting individual rights is frowned upon and self-censorship is considered a virtue, a family with more than one child can have so many problems from daycare to vacation time to children's health problems, all costly and stressful.
Imho, you went off-topic too much this time, and didn't dive deep enough into the topic. Just some constructive criticism...
Over population is a serious issue too.
The lands and resources never increased.
Thanos is right.
It was kinda hard to sit through this talk. Not necessarily because I disagree with most of what you said about male role models or anything (and in fact I do find that certain concepts such as the supposed "feminization of men" are highly problematic) but because you only seem to have these typical culture-war talking points in mind to support your hypothesis. No mention of economical problems, the lackluster implementation of support for (young) adults/parents, unhealthy working conditions and atmosphere and so on and so forth (this definitely should have been at least mentioned when you briefly talked about japan for example). Why should people have children, if all they do is suffer economically and socially afterwards? What's the reward here? Having to constantly balance (full-time) work with raising and feeding kids with little to no appreciation, funds or help at all? People need to be supported, certain cultural norms need to be challenged, work ethics and hours need to be changed. It's not simply an issue between tradition and modernity (at least not in regards to normative gender roles) . It's so lazy to only bring up the regular right-wing arguments when the actual problems run way deeper
I honestly felt like i was consuming propaganda more than actually watching a discussion.
@@donatodias-gy1bu funny that you put it that way. I agree actually
Precisely. Thank you for this comment.
@@jonathanjones8839 cringe
I know what you mean. There was definitely an undercurrent of that consistent conservative narrative that women should be barefoot and pregnant. I do worry that in the future women in countries like South Korea will lose their autonomy and be allocated to men to be used as baby incubators. And if that happens I think those 2 guys (especially the Western one who is a fan of Jordan Peterson) will probably be very happy.
Governments are worried that slaves don't want to breed 😂 lol
yep.
exactly. that's why elon musk is also crying about this
Help, why won't our caged panda bears give us more caged panda bears?
I totally agree ! 💯
"i dont do fearmongering much" yet fearmongers for 20 minutes
I don't think it's a coincidence south korea doesn't just have the lowest birth rates but also the biggest gender gap (feminists, misogynists), age gap (pre and post cold war), and highest suicide rate. Seems korea was not ready for modernization/westernization or foreign cultural influence without it being self destructive. Pre industrialized korean society had huge human rights problem, abuse of authority, strict traditional rigid values but it would probably not face rapid decrease in birth rate. Rather than pick and choose the best aspects of western ideas, korea just blindly follow, from Chrisitanity in the 1950s to LGBT movement in the 2020s. Exactly zero developed country has figured out how to reverse lowering birth rate, without immigration, all would be facing lowering populations as well. Korea has less time to figure it out.
I generally agree, well said except Korea is not pro lgbt though. Maybe their younger people are. Rightly so.
when people call me a "misogynist"
i just give them a massage...
😮💨
@@SpecialK234yes younger people in korea are pro lgbt
Highest suicide rate is of lithuania not korea
too much working hours and then you have to go drinking with your alcoholic boss. when is time for family?? and then housing market become an assest for corporate investment which families cannot keep up with.
I have lots to say. You may not want to hear it. One of the problems is men listening to men like Jordan Peterson and other red pill, incel content creator. It’s turning women off. I and many other woman are independent and don’t have to put up with incels and red pill guys like our mothers and grandmothers had to. So we prefer to remain single.
He edited out the bit about Jordan Peterson
CW is completely bad faith
Spent 13 years in the ROK in the 80s n 90s with the Army! Last visit was 2015! My wife is Korean descent, born n raised in Seoul! We both agree the quick economic growth in the ROK has hurt it more than help!!!!
This is such a surreal crossover ngl.
Before the demographic collapse, a lot of people are not paying more attention to ecological collapse. Soon, I believe their will be widespread famine as environment becomes much harsher to grow crops.
Is Asian Boss going in the direction of how podcast bros operate...?
In the case of South Korea, it's not just the cost of living that is the reason why women are avoiding relations with men. Why isn't the topic of Korean men being offended of women demanding basic rights and respect, even getting angry over a Olympian having short hair, discussed?
And it's not a lack of rolemodel is the problem. People are capable of thinking of what is right or wrong. On being rational. Not to get married, have kids, put one responsibility over another - it's only logical not to do those if you yourself can barely deal with wages not keeping up with food prices, horrible welfare services, healthcare system collapsing, housing getting expensive/no decent housing, inflation, etc.
Blaming terrible mindset on fathers who walked out in their lives serves as lack of accountability from an individual.
Agree 100% 👍
Exactly what I said in my comment. Why are podcast bros being invited to these conversations...?
Cry less
@@anaghagore6830 Views, money. Certainly not because this marketing degree podcast bro is some sort of family sciences pundit.
The problem with these two podcasters is that they are looking for mysogenist father figure. Instead they should be looking for mother figures , parent figures and father figures..
Looking at what are happening on the earth.
It's really good for the earth.
Thank you Korean 👍
As someone from Southeast Asia, the culture of dowry either for the man or the woman, seems like one of the reasons for reduced population or reduced birthrates.
Chris on Asian Boss? That's not a crossover I was expecting! ^^
The problem is (as mentions) is the economy and finance issues, and then there's the whole social traditions. There's also issues with the socio-political issues.
The whole obsession of working excessive hours, not being paid well enough considering inflation, not having enough govt assistance for things like a couple having a child, etc.... The countries are going to collapse in East Asia. The elderly are definitely more populous compared to adults and children so even the elderly will have issues of not having enough care takers.
16:34 So basically.. _Stay Curious_ 😏
Regarding the "ghost towns", wouldn't less population solve the terrible housing and job market? If less people exist, there's more room for us who currently can't find apartments or jobs because there's too much competition out there. Wouldn't that be a good thing? Maybe I'm wrong..
Yeah, most people see it as a bad thing. I also see it as a good thing... more space and resources for everybody.
Why did Chris make it seem like listening to radio in a car is so crazy?😂
Thank you for this! The political argument about why China censorship is so strict, to prevent uprising from rural areas, was new to me. Could you please share your source(s) with us? Thank you.
older or less educated people in the rural areas are more easily manipulated by unfiltered western propaganda where as the more educated population in the cities are to some extend brainwashed by the west, but they also value stability over chaos and war. They also generally have higher living standards and are beginning to be more patriotic and nationalistic even when exposed with the relentless barrage of western propaganda and anti china narratives. Some of these western propaganda are the actual cause of certain younger gen in China to become nationalistic. For example, people in rural areas won't be able to hear much about the lies that the west propagate about xinjiang genocide. The farmers probably have no idea what ppl in xinjiang is going through because he/she have never travelled to xinjiang. However, the wealthier city people would know about xinjiang more because of travel or even know ppl from xinjiang. If the western propaganda is not stopped, then the farmers might actually believe the lies, but the city people would acctually detect the lies and either dismiss it or becomes angry at western media.
I don't know anything about Korea, but I've been around Japan for a couple of decades. I love the country, and I'm concerned about where it will end up. Putting aside the cultural challenges against immigration, there's the massive learning curve for the language. Unlike the west, they can't just bring in trained nurses and carers from other parts of the world, because the older generation cannot communicate with them. I have English-speaking friends from Indonesia and Philippines who have secured good jobs in Australia, Canada, the USA, the UK and Ireland. Going to Japan would be two years of intensive language training before they can really do their jobs effectively, and they are in demand in places with a much lower barrier to entry ... particularly after Covid when a lot of older workers took early retirement after the physical and emotional impact of dealing with the early days of pandemic.
2 years is barely cutting it. Even East Asians with 5 to 10 years of Japanese language learning and Kanji skills are barely tolerated in Japan, let alone accepted. This is why Japan only has 1% foreign population (most of which are Chinese or Koreans anyway) compared to places like Singapore or Dubai where the foreign population is 50% and above. Salaries in Japan are also abysmally low and stagnant while taxes are very high.
Yh 2 years is not enough to learn Japanese ,you would basically have to study 90 % everyday to pull it off.even them ,yh Japan is a great country but the language barrier in terms of getting a work is huge
With smaller populations the workers value increases, properties free up, ghost towns= cheaper properties, more opportunities. Sure there are negatives but there are positives too.
in this greedy economy? i do not think so.
Not cheaper property but abandoned property. So old person cannot sale house to have money for retirement. So poor old people live in villiages with many abandoned houses without shops, doctors and so on. I live in country that start depopulating in 1993.
@@rohj4825where is that?
@@kitxune3295 bulgaria or Romania
Love this. Thank you.
3:00 UN say China only have 1,3 billion population by 2050 and 800 million by 2100. From now 1,4 billon in 2023.
3:15 UN say Jepang only have 106 million population by 2050. And 75 million by 2100. From now 125 million in 2023.
This estimate includes immigration from poor country
Japan & Korea need to listen to feedback from foreigners living there & reduce unnecessary structures, inefficiencies & traditions that make life there so stressful & work days so long. Young people should be able to express themselves more freely without being hammered down.
korea are cheaper....dont blame the gov...the youth in S.Korea not to choose having family instead investing money on unnecessary stuff ....rampant materialism and hedonistic lifestyle ruined their population growth ... they keep bragging lame economic issus in reality it's opposite
Korea is extremely high tech and progressive. Japan however...
@@kageyamareijikunexactly
Well western countries are facing similar issues
@@kageyamareijikunhigh tech does not translate into social progress but economic progress. Korea is advanced technologically but socially, it has a lot of work to do.
Excellent. Spot on so many points. Love mind provoking discussions between intelligent, rational people. Regarding Chris' comment about his mum & the radio, YT podcasts are my "radio" , I listen for hours with a black screen.
Does anyone know where I can read or learn more about the real reason behind censorship in China he mentioned in the video and how it's mainly meant for the rural areas in China?
This is very alarmist and Malthusian....why exactly is a smaller population so bad? The reasons offered here are extremely poor.
And why is there no mention of human progress and innovation and the solutions they offer?
Exactly. Their solution is just going back to the 1950s western morality.. never a realistic discussion about how times must and are going to change even more than they are already uncomfortable with.
Not enough people to support the elderly population. It is possible that innovation can solve these problems.
its bad because the more people, the more forces to help fix climate change.. if there are less people we cant afford to fix earth & nature. its also good to keep reproducing if youre a liberal otherwise our ideology will become extinct
Oh no regular people will be able to buy bigger houses from the less demand along with negotiating better pay at work, but think of GDP.
Right on the spot.
Asia is not just East and South East asia . But please bring people from Central, north, south, west aisa who are on both sides of the political spectrum if you wanna talk political.
East Asia interests the west more. I joke that if westerners weren't talking into their Samsung phones and driving Toyotas, what would they care?
no. how about Arabs and Indians make their own platform instead of beg to be included with Orientals?
Great job Asian boss😊 especially on explaining the reality of what happens inside society of China, Korea, and other Asian countries.
I've been living in Singapore for decades and have met many westerners who didn't have correct picture of what really Asian society is like and thinks like (specially generation below 40yrs old),
Keep it up and make more of these discussions with western podcasters,
Coz we need to live in this planet together and fix problems as one united specie.
if you need reports from SG I'm in for it 😊
There was a singaporean who think that having good paying job, house, car, wife and children, vacation and maybe buying branded item once a while as unrealistic and, that singaporeans should be happy with their condition right now.
5:50 South Korea birth rate 2022 is only 0.78 but if we eliminate rural areas and only focus on capital city Seoul brith rate is only 0.49
this going extinct at this rate by year 2200
@@laujack24 at least we still have North Korea
Great now bring the Womens POV
More of these discussions need to happen ASAP!!
The Thanos effect is in motion..slowly but surely..lol