@@che9357 Got the standard LFP battery pack with dual motors. At 100% charge, range its always estimated at 259 miles and I’d say that’s pretty accurate based on limited testing (and I do not drive conservatively). I’ve done most of my charging at home. Installed a ChargePoint flex charger configured for 48amps. Probably pretty standard, but takes about 7 hours to go from 30% to 100%. I love that you can just charge to 100% and not worry about it with the LFP. Haven’t done any road trips yet (have a couple coming up in August) so I really can’t speak to the DC fast charging myself yet. Only charged for a few minutes a couple of times around town to say I did. 😂
@@JoshGarciaJGG I haven’t once thought they seemed wonky when in traffic using them as intended. There are some times when if you sitting still in a parking lot or with no traffic around, you could view it and think it looks a bit weird. But in real life usage, I’ve not thought much of it!
I really need to see an "everyday user" kind of tow test. Towing something like a boat or utility trailer that is sub 5,000lbs. Myself, and the vast majority of potential owners, will never tow near the maximum capacity. We tow things like bay boats, flat trailers for atv's, and small campers.
Exactly, the towing reviews for electric trucks towing 10,000 lbs up the Ike Gauntlet crack me up. I wouldn't use my gas powered truck to tow that kind of weight especially up the Ike Gauntlet. Time to upgrade to the F250 or F350 at that point which can handle that kind of weight much better not to mention braking power.
I agree with your point, but knowing the limits are more helpful overall. If it can do 10k, it can do 2k - 4k with much better results. That being said, I would be great to see it. My old setup was a 900 lbs trailer with a 400 lbs motorcycle.
@@Techridrexactly. Stick under the limited given. It's ready to pull than it is to stop and there's a bunch of weirdos making videos of their trucks doing more than the limit
Have a max tow ER Lightning and pulled a 24ft center console when I first got it. Roughly 8k lbs loaded with trailer so heavy for its size. Fairly mild March day and averaged .8mi/kWh over the 80 miles roundtrip running mostly 55-60. This is in SE NC so flat terrain and got home with 27% left (started with 100%). Definitely wasn't any lack of power and seemed more stable than the Ram 1500 we normally pull with, but we still use the Ram for sanity's sake due to lack of charging infrastructure here.
@@fiehlsportNo, his face is obviously quite swollen, I would guess he just came back from the dentist after having some major work done, and the Novocaine just wore off enough for him to be able to speak. Sortof. Poor guy LOL On second viewing, the right side of his face is obviously quite swollen and probably still numb from the Novocaine
@@darwking8188 No thanks. I'll keep both of my 2170 Model Ys with access to 27,000 reliable Superchargers. Good job by Rivian, but nothing for me here.
@@darwking8188 You do realize not the 12,000 V2 Superchargers, which is an awesome system in and of itself. And only about 5 minute difference in charging time between 20% and 80% battery between V2s and V3s.
Thermals make total sense. LFP cells usually have a lower internal resistance too, which also makes things easier. In anycase, due to the way the discharge curve works, all you really need to do after charging to 100% is drive enough to drop it to 99% and the voltage will be relaxed and no longer really be stressing the battery. As long as it isn't ridiculously hot outside, I wouldn't worry about it beyond that. If it is really hot outside then dropping the SOC a bit further is probably warranted. It is totally unnecessary to try to maintain LFP at 50% or 80% or anything like that. Totally unnecessary. You won't improve the life-span of the pack vs 95%. On a cell by cell basis, just generally, to make this more understandable... the nominal discharge voltage is in the 3.2V to 3.3V range. The float voltage is 3.35V to 3.375V (where the battery is neither charging nor discharging). The charge target is typically around 3.55V/cell and the BMS cut-off is typically around 3.65V/cell. The voltage starts to go exponential during charging above 3.40V (at zero current). Ignoring current-induced voltage droop or voltage rise. You can see a vast difference between the float at 3.35V and the charge target at 3.55V. It takes less than 1% of the SOC to go from the charge target down to the float (i.e. where you are still sitting at 99% SOC). So basically, at 99% the cells are actually fairly de-stressed and at 95% they are massively de-stressed. You don't have to worry about long-term storage at 95% or below and you don't have to worry about overnighting at 99%. NMC cells behave very differently. They more or less ramp up and down "almost" linearly so there is no "relaxation" voltage for an NMC cell, which means you want to have a charge target of 80% to keep them in a healthily de-stressed state. -Matt
You mentioned a standard pack 10% challenge run, would love to see those results how much better it does than a standard Rivian (and compared to things like a Model Y, EV9, etc).
As an owner in PNW that doesn't have to worry about high temps 95% of the year I'm very excited for this. But ALSO as a PNW owner I'm concerned about the low temp points when it comes to LFP batteries.
But it also doesn't get as bitterly cold there, like it does here in MN. So I think you'd be ok. It won't be nearly the capacity hit or effort to warm the pack.
Ok, so super interested in the Gen 2 R1T. kW vs SOC is interesting but SOC at time would have been more helpful. I want to charge the truck at a DC charger as long as it makes sense. Anything below 100kW is really a diminishing return and that looks to be roughly 60%. How long did it take to get there? Did I miss it in the video ? I mean in a pinch I MAY charge to 80-90% but 45-50 minutes at a DC charger is not great. I don't mind 25-30 minutes for a snack, stretch, restroom break. I hope some of this will be laid out in a 10% challenge because the range for road tripping is not 270 miles because not many will sit at a DC charger for an hour or so. the 10% challenge is great, a road tripping challenge would be even better. Set a max time of 30 minutes at a DC charger and a starting SOC of around 7%-10% because I know you guys do but we really try not to get much below 10% just in case on the bottom of the pack. Love the info and accessibility to new products. Keep it up !
@kyle can we use AreaUnderTheCurve metric to compare charging performance of different vehicles? It should standardize charging test and should say how good is the charging performance
What was the improvement with the new software from 10-80%? Looking at the pre-update google sheet, looks like it was 35min. How has that time improved with the new update?
The EVs with huge battery packs like the Rivians, the Cybertruck, and especially the Silverado need both a monster charging curve and high charging power.
It’ll be great when there are enough DCFC in the Midwest that these video recommendations actually make sense. Today max range is far more important than rate of charge. Access to Tesla SC network will help, but where I drive they’re still out of the way (and 150kW max). Only a couple 50kW chargers along my typical route.
So what's the time to get to 80% this video is 16 minutes long, but there's somehow very little useful information. Kyle spends so much time rambling, but never saying anything useful.
@@theeSamW That's the pre-update curve. It's priceless that you're telling me to use my brain when you didn't use yours. The post-update curve has no time information.
The Rivian Website is totally F'd. They won't show the products they have for sale, but keep showing you the R2 which is not for sale. Should I buy a hi-tech car from people who can't even manage their own website? Doubtful.
You'd think these short selling and/or competitor spamming idiots would bother to at least create bot accounts with realistic sounding names. Just exceptionally lazy.
It would be great to see both plots overlaid to see the difference
THIS!!!!
My first reaction was it’s not different lol.
From what I've seen so far on RUclips reviews, the updated Gen 2 Rivian truck and SUV is an insane improvement across the board. Quite impressive
Picked up my R1S Gen2 July 10. I’m loving it.
What battery size and how's the charging been??
Do the side view cameras look distorted like they did in videos from when it was first unveiled..??
@@che9357 Got the standard LFP battery pack with dual motors. At 100% charge, range its always estimated at 259 miles and I’d say that’s pretty accurate based on limited testing (and I do not drive conservatively). I’ve done most of my charging at home. Installed a ChargePoint flex charger configured for 48amps. Probably pretty standard, but takes about 7 hours to go from 30% to 100%. I love that you can just charge to 100% and not worry about it with the LFP. Haven’t done any road trips yet (have a couple coming up in August) so I really can’t speak to the DC fast charging myself yet. Only charged for a few minutes a couple of times around town to say I did. 😂
@@JoshGarciaJGG I haven’t once thought they seemed wonky when in traffic using them as intended. There are some times when if you sitting still in a parking lot or with no traffic around, you could view it and think it looks a bit weird. But in real life usage, I’ve not thought much of it!
Get any dc fast charging in?
Kyle hope you get your voice back soon . Nice review . Cheers.
Great to see Rivian update their truly excellent EV's, look forward to their new products to see how this will make for improved charging performance!
Kyle working while sick, the guy has passion for his work, love to see it!
I really need to see an "everyday user" kind of tow test. Towing something like a boat or utility trailer that is sub 5,000lbs. Myself, and the vast majority of potential owners, will never tow near the maximum capacity. We tow things like bay boats, flat trailers for atv's, and small campers.
Exactly, the towing reviews for electric trucks towing 10,000 lbs up the Ike Gauntlet crack me up. I wouldn't use my gas powered truck to tow that kind of weight especially up the Ike Gauntlet. Time to upgrade to the F250 or F350 at that point which can handle that kind of weight much better not to mention braking power.
I agree with your point, but knowing the limits are more helpful overall. If it can do 10k, it can do 2k - 4k with much better results. That being said, I would be great to see it. My old setup was a 900 lbs trailer with a 400 lbs motorcycle.
@@Techridrexactly. Stick under the limited given. It's ready to pull than it is to stop and there's a bunch of weirdos making videos of their trucks doing more than the limit
Have a max tow ER Lightning and pulled a 24ft center console when I first got it. Roughly 8k lbs loaded with trailer so heavy for its size. Fairly mild March day and averaged .8mi/kWh over the 80 miles roundtrip running mostly 55-60. This is in SE NC so flat terrain and got home with 27% left (started with 100%). Definitely wasn't any lack of power and seemed more stable than the Ram 1500 we normally pull with, but we still use the Ram for sanity's sake due to lack of charging infrastructure here.
@@PJnc276 I’m in NC as well. Need to be able to tow my bay boat 150 miles, 1 way to the coast.
Looking forward to more reviews on the LFP. It's what I'm holding out for, and going between the R1S and the Land Cruiser. Thanks for this info.
Race to Vegas R1S LFP vs Large vs Max pack coming soon?
Rivian needs to improve charging across all battery packs to stay competitive.
R1s pre orders here on the fence due to charge times
Thank you Kyle and team for being so quick with these tests and videos!! Best in the game
Did Kyle just come from the dent-ith? Or is he hanging with Mike Ty-thon lately?
That or his mic was dipped in pizza ranch.
lol. Poor Kyle. Take a few days off the rest of the team can take over. Great info though. Nothing keeps a good man down
Maybe Invithalign?
I think the low audio bitrate is to blame
@@fiehlsportNo, his face is obviously quite swollen, I would guess he just came back from the dentist after having some major work done, and the Novocaine just wore off enough for him to be able to speak. Sortof. Poor guy LOL On second viewing, the right side of his face is obviously quite swollen and probably still numb from the Novocaine
I think I'm convinced. Probably get an R1S in the next 8 months or so. LFP version will likely be the one I get.
I HATE that my nerd level is at the point that I love watching videos like this till the end. Please send help
This seems like the Rivian pack to get
It’s the one I am getting! Can’t wait!!!
You want to trade in the model 3 and come back to Rivian life :)
@@darwking8188 No thanks. I'll keep both of my 2170 Model Ys with access to 27,000 reliable Superchargers. Good job by Rivian, but nothing for me here.
@@777Outrigger you do realize Rivian can use SCs now right?
@@darwking8188 You do realize not the 12,000 V2 Superchargers, which is an awesome system in and of itself. And only about 5 minute difference in charging time between 20% and 80% battery between V2s and V3s.
Appreciate your authenticity, keep being real
Good info!
Thermals make total sense. LFP cells usually have a lower internal resistance too, which also makes things easier. In anycase, due to the way the discharge curve works, all you really need to do after charging to 100% is drive enough to drop it to 99% and the voltage will be relaxed and no longer really be stressing the battery. As long as it isn't ridiculously hot outside, I wouldn't worry about it beyond that. If it is really hot outside then dropping the SOC a bit further is probably warranted.
It is totally unnecessary to try to maintain LFP at 50% or 80% or anything like that. Totally unnecessary. You won't improve the life-span of the pack vs 95%.
On a cell by cell basis, just generally, to make this more understandable... the nominal discharge voltage is in the 3.2V to 3.3V range. The float voltage is 3.35V to 3.375V (where the battery is neither charging nor discharging). The charge target is typically around 3.55V/cell and the BMS cut-off is typically around 3.65V/cell. The voltage starts to go exponential during charging above 3.40V (at zero current). Ignoring current-induced voltage droop or voltage rise.
You can see a vast difference between the float at 3.35V and the charge target at 3.55V. It takes less than 1% of the SOC to go from the charge target down to the float (i.e. where you are still sitting at 99% SOC).
So basically, at 99% the cells are actually fairly de-stressed and at 95% they are massively de-stressed. You don't have to worry about long-term storage at 95% or below and you don't have to worry about overnighting at 99%.
NMC cells behave very differently. They more or less ramp up and down "almost" linearly so there is no "relaxation" voltage for an NMC cell, which means you want to have a charge target of 80% to keep them in a healthily de-stressed state.
-Matt
Would you get lfp in a winter climate if you plan to road trip?
Yay lfp for the win!!! This is definitely my preferred suv with preferred battery makeup
You mentioned a standard pack 10% challenge run, would love to see those results how much better it does than a standard Rivian (and compared to things like a Model Y, EV9, etc).
lol HOW did you not put both charge curves on the same chart.
As an owner in PNW that doesn't have to worry about high temps 95% of the year I'm very excited for this. But ALSO as a PNW owner I'm concerned about the low temp points when it comes to LFP batteries.
PNW?
@ahbushnell1 Pacific North-West (Washington State, Oregon, etc).
@@ahbushnell1pacific Northwest
But it also doesn't get as bitterly cold there, like it does here in MN. So I think you'd be ok. It won't be nearly the capacity hit or effort to warm the pack.
Ok, so super interested in the Gen 2 R1T. kW vs SOC is interesting but SOC at time would have been more helpful. I want to charge the truck at a DC charger as long as it makes sense. Anything below 100kW is really a diminishing return and that looks to be roughly 60%. How long did it take to get there? Did I miss it in the video ? I mean in a pinch I MAY charge to 80-90% but 45-50 minutes at a DC charger is not great. I don't mind 25-30 minutes for a snack, stretch, restroom break. I hope some of this will be laid out in a 10% challenge because the range for road tripping is not 270 miles because not many will sit at a DC charger for an hour or so. the 10% challenge is great, a road tripping challenge would be even better. Set a max time of 30 minutes at a DC charger and a starting SOC of around 7%-10% because I know you guys do but we really try not to get much below 10% just in case on the bottom of the pack. Love the info and accessibility to new products. Keep it up !
What is the expected charge rate on Tesla superchargers?
@kyle can we use AreaUnderTheCurve metric to compare charging performance of different vehicles? It should standardize charging test and should say how good is the charging performance
What was the improvement with the new software from 10-80%? Looking at the pre-update google sheet, looks like it was 35min. How has that time improved with the new update?
Jus look at that portion of the curve
@@rcpmac The post-update curve has no time information on it.
@@Anothernerdyloser314Isn’t the time in the far right column?
Looks like it went from around 35 mins pre to around 30 mins post.
Would like too see range test on 2024 lightning and charging test
The EVs with huge battery packs like the Rivians, the Cybertruck, and especially the Silverado need both a monster charging curve and high charging power.
100% this! Rivian’s charging curve is pitiful for as much tech and capability they have and for the price.
Any word of if Rivian was going to pursue bi-directional charging so your house could use your suv/truck battery (say in case of emergency)?
It already has the hardware to do that.
They mentioned it on their earnings they were planning to offer it but nothing is out yet.
do all the trucks have that battery?
Wonder why no one has picked the CATL schenzing battery?
It’d be nice to see an LFP max pack. Also, the all-terrain option for LFP.
LFP is less energy dense than NCA/NMC - it takes up the same volume as the max pack but stores less energy. Theres no more room to put any cells
The charging issues with these won't really come up until winter, where warming the battery will be really important.
is the Standard+ also LFP?
what's the range of using 30% of the battery pack?
When did Kyle develop this lisp? Who are you and what have you done with Kyle?
Yes please retest the lfp on 10% challenge
I think ABrP shows more info when it’s synced to the vehicle
Glad they did. Solves Rivian"s most glaring deficiency.
Is this Gen2 yet or are these Gen1 tests?
It’ll be great when there are enough DCFC in the Midwest that these video recommendations actually make sense. Today max range is far more important than rate of charge. Access to Tesla SC network will help, but where I drive they’re still out of the way (and 150kW max). Only a couple 50kW chargers along my typical route.
Just curious who is telling you 30-50% is ideal for storage? Any specific manufacturer?
SoC storage data has been covered to death in the academic literature and validated in the real world
So looks like 30 min 10% to 80%? If I am reading the chart correctly?
2:30.45 to 3:04.24 - just under 34 min with flying start.
@@abraxastulammo9940 thats the pre update curve the post update isn't really clear on the time.
Its probably just under 30min because its nearly 5 min from 0 to 10 and then 34 min at 80% so more than likely 29+ min 10 to 80.
@@darinbrazil5496 10-80 % is just under 34 min while charging is underway according to the timestamps in the google sheets.
Kyle had a rough voice, I hope he is ok.
I think something is different with Kyle's microphone...
i'd love to see this pack be torn down by someone and find out if its a modified Qilin pack from CATL
👍🌟🌟👍
cool
What Kyle has in his mouth ?
So what's the time to get to 80% this video is 16 minutes long, but there's somehow very little useful information. Kyle spends so much time rambling, but never saying anything useful.
The answer to your question is in the video before the 4 minute mark. Use your brain a bit a you'll find it.
@@theeSamW That's the pre-update curve. It's priceless that you're telling me to use my brain when you didn't use yours. The post-update curve has no time information.
It doesn't say 80 percent. Jordan says 0 to 100 percent about 60 minutes.
@@JakeRichardsong that's horrible lol.
@@Anothernerdyloser314 Spreadsheet in description. 2nd tab. 34 mins vs old one at 38.43
The Rivian Website is totally F'd. They won't show the products they have for sale, but keep showing you the R2 which is not for sale. Should I buy a hi-tech car from people who can't even manage their own website? Doubtful.
Are you brain dead? The very first thing on their website is the R1 vehicles with big buttons that lead you to the shop or build options.
What do you mean? It shows you plenty available.
Ok, bot.
I see 2024 R1Ts for sale and the ability to spec and order 2025 R1T and R1S
You'd think these short selling and/or competitor spamming idiots would bother to at least create bot accounts with realistic sounding names. Just exceptionally lazy.