I think to add into the moral debate, and reasons to pick the 'synth ARENT people' side is to have evidence not just to support that synths are people, but also evidence they might NOT be fully 'developed' enough to be considered people. In essence very similar to how the robots in Fallout the vast majority of their personalities are just programming, but some have moved beyond their programming. Sneak in some evidence the player has to deep dive for to show that Synths might actually just be in a similar state but the programming + emulation and learning has advanced well past normal robots but blurs the line between actual sentience, and a convincing replica of sentience, a synthetic sentience that is just off by a margin so small its almost impossible to detect but could prove catastrophic if that last step towards sentience is not finished before humanity is replaced/upgraded. But also add in a hint that such a 'just barely off' might just be human error or prejudice affecting the results making it possible for the player to not take such evidence at face value.
I think the hardest part about creating evidence to prove synths as not being people, is that you have to figure out what a person is, which is a huge philosophical question of its own and will always come down to player interpretation regardless of what the game is able to show. Definitely an interesting concept to attempt, but one hell of a tricky one to do well.
I think all the evidence I need to know synths are people is this. Syths living in the institute want to leave. Before they even know of the railroad, they wanted to leave. Patriot was freeing synths that wanted to be free. Not knowing the railroad was even getting them. The fact that synths before the railroad speaks to them want to be free is enough for me to know they are more than machines.
One thing that annoys me is that Gen 3 Synths are NOT ROBOTS. We see how they are made in the lab. It involves them building a skeleton with tons of the outlines of organs and no mechanical parts. It looks exactly like people growing organs in a lab with stem cells, just faster and with a full body. We even hear from a doctor that you can do surgery on synths, and unless you go deep into the brain, you will find no difference from a normal person. They have all the usual organs, with the only nonorganic part being a tiny plastic brain implant that doesn't look that different from what Kellog had. In other words, they are clones. They even mention that Shaun's DNA was needed for Gen 3 synths. They have human brains made from human DNA. But no one even argues that clones shouldn't have rights or that, as clones, they are not human. Everyone keeps acting like they are robots made from metal, even as multiple side characters remark on how they have organs and can't be discovered through medical testing.
One of the most stupid characters in this regard is Justin Ayo in the SRB who contradicts himself when talking about the free will of Synths. He says that Synths are just Robots but his criteria for Synths that are suitable for Courser Training are as follows: tenacity, fearlessness and indepence. Fearlessness is the mandatory state for any Robot because they can't feel fear and the other two would require a level of free will. And why would a Robot need training in the first place? Just program them to be as deadly as you need. The Institute is just bad writing through and through.
also it contradicts Fallout 3 where they are internally different with cyber parts and even in game stuff about their resistances. it's bethesda being cowards who want the choice to be easy, like Yes I'm for synth rights, and I would be if they were basically terminators with FEV. which by the way would have been cooler, it'd validate fear of synths since they would then be powerful, and it'd still be hardto test for with most settlements since people wouldn't consent to injuries that can get infected just to prove they're not robots.
One big segment I cut out from the script of this video was a whole thing about where exactly the line is supposedly being drawn on what defines a "human", as it does seem like the argument against synths is that they weren't pushed out of another person (horrible phrasing, I apologise, but I'm trying to avoid RUclips flagging this comment) which, as you bring up with stem cells, is already something we have in the present day without it being seen as the same issue. The whole idea behind synths being considered as robots really just comes from the Gen 1 and 2s. Without them, the 3rd generation would almost certainly be seen as something different (quite possibly clones, as you say). I'm also not certain how integral the plastic synth component you find on dead synths is to their whole being, as I remember there being something about that being used to use recall codes and track them. Annoyingly, I'm trying to check it right now but the wiki refuses to load and I'm not sure where to look in game, but it's still another interesting point that shifts away from the idea of the most updated synths being robots
One way you can have the Institute keep their boogyman status would be to have it be that all of the evil crap the Insitute did to the Commonwealth was carried out by a previous Director who was a complete psychopath who saw the Commonwealth as a giant petri dish. By the time the game starts, this Director has long since been overthrown and his immoral practices have been abolished but the Institute's reputation is already in tatters.
I do like a lot of the ideas here. I would also like to focus on the younger members of the Institute and how they feel especially the kid whos step mom is a synth clone of the original, alot of family drama right there. Really I would like an Institute ending where the railroad and minutemen get justice without going genocide and blowing the place up, cause regardless of of the viewpoint on the Institute, that is a society of people and using a nuke on them is very out of character for both RR and MM.
While getting some of the footage for this video I did a lot of wandering about the Institute and stumbled across some of the kids (who I fully had forgotten were in the faction at all). You do get the option to sound the alarm and get people to flee, but I can't remember if that's available with all the factions or not. I certainly don't remember that sort of option being available on the Prydwyn when the Railroad blows that up, which does kind of double down on them as doing bad things right at the end and presents a real dark turn which doesn't get too much exploration in game.
I loved this video! The institute really fell flat as a faction in fo4, and I agree and ideological conflict this this would be better than what they did. Personally, I would want them to full on cannonize the Sole Survivor as a synth (instead of leaving a vague idea of it) for this kind of debate, because it lends itself to the internal debate of what makes a person a person. Like, they could have made it so that you could side with the synth=robot people, help them win, and either live knowing you're a synth decieving them or sacrifice yourself to them and let the game end. Alternatively, siding with synths are people and annoucing you're one too could help win over certain people or alienate others. Heck you could work with the railroad to help sway people's minds in the commonwealth and then help implement some kind of personality transfer technology to let people become syths if they want. I've got a couple of synth characters in an MLP-Fallout ttrpg, and the every other sunday game I'm in has more non-normal people (An assaultpone {assaultron}, dipped alicorn {mlp super mutant}, a gen 2 synth, a gen 3 synth and a shapeshifter) all of us playing a character on the scale of "am I a person or a thing" which is such an interesting concspt that Bethesda just skipped past.
Fallout equestria is great, also I decided that if they have synths they're some sort of advanced hermunculi situation where the insides are not pony, such as a magic power supply to not need much food, metal bones, let the non ponies be non pony.
Personally I feel like Bethesda didn't really have any plan to make (or even imply) the Sole Survivor as a synth when the game first came out, but realised it would be a fun thing to potentially explore with the DLC. Could be mistaken on that front, but it's always felt that way to me when I've played. Could well be an interesting concept to explore in a future Fallout game. I, for one, would love to see Fallout spin offs which have us play as non-humans of different varieties and delve in to the idea of what it means to be a person
@@BADCompanySarge playing non humans is always fun, I mod my new vegas for that. I have yet to find mods to take 4 seriously enough to treat my character as anything. it's just borderlands with less bisexuals.
You doing stuff like this for the other factions? If so here's some ideas in how I'd rewrite the other factions Brotherhood of Steel: Their journey to the Commonwealth has been an undertaking they've been preparing for nearly 8 years now. As back in 2279, a squad of Coursers attacked the Citadel. The battle that would be instigated here would escelate out of control as a number of Brotherhood soldiers garrisoning their HQ would begin turning on their fellow members - as a number of these newer members were in fact Synths that were either deployed to DC on purpose or runaways that the Coursers were sent for. The Citadel Massacre being a consiquence to the Courser's mission. Which as a result galvinized the surviving leaders of the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood of Steel and alerted them to the existance of the Institute which has now proven themselves to be hostile to the wasteland. So not only are they here in the Commonwealth to protect the wasteland from the Institute, but also revenge for their unprovoked attack that wiped out most of their Lyons Chapter era veterans such as Sara Lyons. In laymens terms the Brotherhood of Steel are here for a war of revenge or justice. And it's up to the Sole Survivor to decide which path they should help the Brotherhood of Steel take-on during their campaign. A brutal war of revenge where they show no mercy to those that stand against them? Or a war of justice, where they seek to bring rightious judgement upon the people that not only nearly destroyed their order, but whose actions and experiments are an active threat to Humanity. Railroad: The Railroad at this point should be a Synth-lead Rebellion. Where Synths such as Glory is the one in charge instead of Desdamona. These guys take a lot of insperation from the Resistance in the Terminator series in how they operate over anything else. Their goal is to liberate the Commonwealth from the Institute's tyranny and save as many Synths and Humans that have been victimized by the Institute. However their desire to protect Synths has caused massive issues for them with other Human factions and settlements in the past - one major incident leading to a massive shootout in a settlement in University Point a few years prior - thus causing the Railroad to not hold much good favor with the major settlements that rule the Commonwealth's surface. Many of whom look at the Railroad as a bunch of extreamists. Your goal as the Sole Survivor is to steer the direction in how far the Railroad are willing to go in order to bring down the Institue and those that oppose them. The Minutemen: Instead of a destroyed faction, at this point they're a functional yet weakened Remnant. Commander Preston Garvey being the last functional leader of the Minutemen. Your goal with the Minutemen is to help Preston Garvey take the fight back to the Gunners and rebuild. But instead of being the resident one-man construction worker like in vanilla, your tasks are more focused on setting up alliances with settlements in order to take the fight back to the Gunners, and later on against the Insitute, when it would be revealed that the Institue have been paying the Gunners in order to keep the surface world as unstable as they can with their raids and wars they've been waging against the Minutemen.
That point about the gunners being payed by the institute is genius. Genuinly gave the faction a reason to exist beyond "military raiders". Also i would add a pont that while Preston is an idealist, there should also be a choice to become more authoritarian or pragmatic. I think Ronnie Shaw could be a good catalist for this shift as the minutemen gain power, their focuses shift, and once they go on the offencive, you should have to choose between maintaining the civilian voluntary militia or creating a standing army whoch leads to a recruit shortage which then gives you the option of implamenting conscription. While this gives you a bigger army, it also has huge drawbacks like less settlement production and happiness. If you pick too many of these autocratic reforms, you will essentially turn the minutemen into the Gunners. While this makes them much stronger, it costs a lot more to maintain and can lead to a rebellion led by preston if you dont make concessions. I guess you could have the ability to hold both sides together until you destroy the gunners but once they are gone, Preston will demand you make good on your word to lighten up the policies. This could then lead to a cycle of the militarists finding new enemies to justify their authoritarian rule while also creating a military industrial complex making the upper stands of diamond city richer as they get the contracts to supply the minutemen this then creates a new society in the commonwealth as many can find work in the new factories set up to supply the minutemen. This creates a new support base because many benefit from getting these jobs as well as the protection of the minutemen. Eventually the militarists will have enough control to oust Preston and his supporters. But if its not enough, Preston and his supporters will try to oust you causing a small civil war which ends in you either killing him or taking him prisoner. After this, the Minutemen are reorganised into the Second Continental Army. For a safer, securer, society. (Fascism) But of couse you can go with Preston instead of the militarists. Rejecting some of their reforms like conscription, leading to a much weaker minutemen, but one that doesnt struggle for public support. Their path will end in the creation of a new Commonwealth civilian government where an election will be held. Some of the candidates could include Ronnie Shaw or a puppet of hers running on a militarist platform. Hancock, on his anarcist "of the people" ideology as well as ghoul rights platform, but hes also a Richard Nixon type. (But if he wins, you lose him as a companion). Mayor McDonough, who is obviously an institute puppet (which can be exposed if you are enemies with the institute). And lastly, a choice of either Piper or Nick (only if you convince them) they will be your "ideal option" running on a pro preston's minutemen, pro ghoul and synth platform. But once again, whoever you decide to support you will lose as a companion if they win (obviously if you chose to support them, they are bound to win). I can honestly understand why bathesda wouldnt do all this but its a really fun thought exercise.
@eagleowl833 so in layman's terms BoS: Justice or Revenge RR: Freedom or Victory MM: Harmony or Control These would be the potential paths for the Sole Survivor could guide these factions into taking
@@eagleowl833 Meanwhile the duality between Glory and Desdamona can be used to explore the Freedom vs Victory paths for the Railroad. Glory wants Victory. To take the fight to the Institute once and for all. However she is the most trigger-happy amongst the Railroad's leadership, which has caused massive blowback for them in past missions when some missions caused a lot of unwanted collateral damage then intended. Meanwhile Desdamona is a lot more cautious, being more focused on saving and smuggling Synths out of the Commonwealth. As for the Brotherhood of Steel, not sure who can stand in opposition to Elder Maxson like you got for the MM or RR. My idea for the Justice vs Revenge route for the BoS comes down to how the Sole Survivor responds to Maxson's plans and orders. The more push-back you give and the more you're able to convince Elder Maxson to not go to far over the rails, the better off the BoS will be in the longterm. As his desire for revenge could become poisonous to the BoS' moral to fight. He wants to keep going until every Synth and Institue Scientist is dead. But the more bodies the BoS piles up, the more casualties they'll end-up enduring. And they don't have the recources for a prolongued war of attrition like the Institute does. Thus you can sway him and get him to focus on the main goal: Bring down the Institute. Or you can feed into his worst impulses via going after as many leads on Synths as you can, which whilst makes the Commonwealth to scared to challenge the BoS in more direct battles, this starts causing problems for troop moral.
I've been thinking something similar with the Minutemen. Where the player does more than just build settlements and do the same radiant quests until universe heat-death, but also gains the aid of the three major settlements/town/cities (you pick what you want to call them) so help fund and support the cause. Maybe you can get Diamond City and Goodneighbor to allow a Minuteman garrison which would grant the player (and npcs) a safe route between the two without being harassed by the never ending waves of Gunners, Raiders, and Mutants. All of it culminating in the takeover of the Institute (the Brotherhood should do this too, ludicrous that they'd blow it up), re-establishing the Commonwealth Provisional Government, and the destruction of the Gunners as a threat. But I've also been thinking, what about switching sides somehow near the beginning of the questline and joining then taking over the Gunners instead. (possibly also drop the railroad as a main faction to do this). Basically an "evil" Minuteman playthrough. Instead of settlements and towns to joining peacefully you'd instead take them over by force. Instead of overseeing an election for the CPG, you'd declare yourself the Grand Marshal or something pompous and rule the wasteland yourself. Maybe even giving certain faction members the choice to join your or die; maybe Ronnie Shaw or Proctor Ingram could be convinced that their factions are weak and that they'd be better off joining you. Giving you artillery or vertibirds or some other unique bonus.
I don't plan on doing the exact same style of rewrites for the other factions, as I feel like each of them have much more clearly defined goals, but I do have a few rewrites in the work which will touch on the main factions a bit.
I think it would be interesting to try and work cybernetics in as an alternative to the synths, and we could do that by working the brother hood into it as a story line. The brotherhood has access to lots of prewar technology and schematics, some they would probably see as to dangerous to use but to valuable to destroy, and maybe the institutes failures with cybernetics could be fixed if they were to get their hands on that prewar tech. Two ways can be gone about it, either you are able to convince the brotherhood, or at least a splinter faction of them, to work with the institute on the project, or you go to war with them to steal the technology and plans to revitalize the project and gain access to the cybernetics. The outcomes could be joint control of the commonwealth with cyber knights and synths, or full control with institute synths and a cybernetic militia, conscripted by the institute to lessen the need for synths.
I think the cybernetics angle/distinction could have been a really interesting point to explore between the Institute and Brotherhood. I had to do a bit of research to double check, and their is a terminal entry about Arthur Maxson which refers to him as "the perfect human specimen, an example of everything a human being can achieve. Assisted, even enhanced, by advanced technology, but still very much human.". It's a little vague but there's the implication that Maxson may have some kind of cybernetic enhancements which creates a whole point about what the specifics of machine versus man are. Even if Maxson isn't technically a cyborg himself (as this is just one line which can be interpreted different ways) then we still do have Star Paladin Cross from Fallout 3, who very much was classed as a cyborg and yet was still a member of the Brotherhood. Feels like a whole missed topic between the two factions within the game itself, one that certainly could have been explored in some way. That discussion aside, it does feel a little strange that the final mission of the BoS doesn't have you looting Institute technology before blowing them up. After all, a similar thing was done with PAM once you've dealt with the Railroad.
@@BADCompanySarge in Fallout 4's artbook, it's also mentioned that the Brotherhood came to Boston to get their hands on the Institute's synth technology as the “Holy Grail of eternal life”. Apparently, the early development version of the Brotherhood was quite different from what we see in the end.
I commented earlier on a post he made saying how I don't like the ending of Fallout 4 the most that each ending really did not have any effect on the world hardly at all aside from more firefights and a little bit more of the factions people to help you aside from some rare audio you can get from certain characters there's really not much change in the world that you play in it'd be nice if the Brotherhood of Steel ending there will be considerable less amount of super mutants and feral Ghouls and synths in the world For the railroad yes more synths could show up at your settlements and you are able to know who they are also having some of Tinker Tom's theories come true For the Minutemen after their ending there should be a heck of a lot more defense at each settlement you obtained and that you should be able to have a better way to arm the Minutemen and getting better armor and have more minute man actively fighting more Bandits rather than a chance in a random encounter And The Institute since you are the head of the Institute when it makes sense for you to be able to choose how to make synths what synths will do in a commonwealth either synths attack settlements or defend them or make it so synths take out mutated creatures like deathclaws scorpions mole rat and other creatures that kill people easily or you could go down in a darker path and create more of those type of creatures I just would have loved to have more of an effect of the ending to each faction instead of a bland ending that gives you a few more of your people to work with It also would have been a really cool if each faction for survival mode had its own unique ability to fast travel Railroad they are able to reactivate some railroads around the world pun unintended Minutemen can escort your character like a caravan are you telling me those cows can't pull small wagon or something😅 We all know the Brotherhood has the helicopters And why the hell can we teleport with the Institute I would understand if each fast travel what other have to have a timer or Fusion core to fuel it I would be completely okay if each factions fast traveling would need something as compensation like the railroad you can get brownie points for helping them out The Brotherhood to collect rare technology and get a certain kind of coconut give you a fast travel point I don't know And the Minutemen you're out of protection in case your caravan gets attacked it would actually be kind of cool if the fast traveling screen was interrupted and you were being attacked by something or someone that would make the game more worth it for me
I do like the idea of having a greater effect on the post main story game. I feel like, at present, it's more the case that the mid game is where the factions really start to have a bit of an effect, with things like Brotherhood patrols appearing as you travel the wastes. I'm tempted to do a whole post main story sort of video at some point, but I'd want to find examples of games which do it particularly well first.
Great video. It’s always so hard to do an Institute play through because halfway through I have to ask why my character is even doing any this. The only answer is that you are just an evil scientist. But the voice actor kinda makes it hard to play anything other than a good guy (or at least a guy who thinks he’s good)
The voiced player character is such a big problem for role playing. I made a character build years back called Rage, who was this absolute beast of a man, incredibly scary to look at and wielding the shiskebab to add even more menace. But every time he opened his mouth to talk the mood was completely destroyed as even the "mean" dialogue choices make him sound like a friendly guy
@@BADCompanySarge yeah it’s so hard to role a bad guy lol. Plus a lot of the times the mean options are straight up telling people “no”, so you can’t even do half the quest without being nice 😂
The way I would overhaul/Re-write the Institute is by making the Institute have multiple goals, but the main goal is to seek redemption of what Zimmer from Fallout 3 did. Where Zimmer was the previous leader of the Institute before Shaun took over. Where Shaun true goal is to make the Institute redeem themselves and clean what Zimmer did to the Commonwealth. Where Zimmer is the reason why Super Mutants and Synths rain a mock in the Commonwealth. Zimmer true goal was to create Synths just to prove Mr. House and the other pre-war scientists how he is the best scientists. Where he manage to outlive them since the Institute true goal was to help the Enclave to create a more power Eden of Geck to terraform the Wasteland and to clone many animals to have fresh meat or animals for their Zoos that aren't mutant animals. But Zimmer took advantage and replaced his body twice since the cloning experiments had issues. Where clones with good bodies had issues with their brains and die from hemorrhage or stroke. While clones with healthy brains and are super smart than the previous have an issue where their body seems to deteriorate and cause organ failure one by one. Zimmer took the healthy clone bodies and remove their brains, replacing them with his and having a new body. After Zimmer finally became the leader of the Institute, he stopped the main project of the Institute and decided to convince or force them into doing the Synth project. Zimmer also tested on the FEV, since he thought he could create a better version just to later give up after the Gen 2 synths were developed and threw all the Super Mutants on the Commonwealth since he viewed the outside as lowlife tribals. I would make Shaun be the good guy trying to make the Institute seek redemption while also trying to continue the true goal of the Institute, which was the cloning project. Except he wants to make a clone to you cause he knows the Institute cheated you (Nate or Nora) out of being a parent. Another reason Shaun dethrone and is trying to eliminate Zimmer is mainly out of revenge, but he disguises his revenge with justice and redemption. Not revenge for you but for his pregnant wife who got killed by Zimmer on purpose by making his wife work on an unstable reactor. Zimmer killed Shauns wife out of his sense of superiority complex. And wanted to put Shaun on his place. Just for Shaun to do the opposite and overthrow his plans.
An alternate third ending is, if you have one or fewer departments you must evacuate with the synth sympathetic people and you go to the railroad where they eventually see that replacing people is wrong
I would add one more change to the other factions. If you side with any other faction than during the final battle you encounter some scientists who plead with you as your forces attack the institute. They ask you to allow them to work to not destroy their home. None of these people are the heads of the departments. They are just scientists. You can choose to keep the institute around, but the scientists will work under new management. If you side with the bos, railroad, or minutemen you now see their operatives in the institute. This ending could work with RR, and MM. But perhaps choosing this option causes the player to be questioned by the BOS. If you side with the BOS, then you become an enemy if you allow the labs to remain. Since the BOS would not allow the tech to remain. I also think there should be a point in all factions that allow all factions to survive in some form. Maybe if Danse is still alive the BOS allows some scientists to still work in the institute.
I like how constructive and supporting this video is! I do think that if the Institute had clearer goals with the Commonwealth, that would help. Like if part of the reason they wanted Synths was to have the manpower to take over the otherwise chaotic CW, that would at least be a straightforward motivation, and one that ties in well to it's backstory, where they tried to go the cooperative route originally, but distrust and backstabbing during the formation of the Commonwealth Provisional Government scuttled all that, with them taking the blame. It's not hard for them to argue that the CW needs a steady, dependable workforce to cut through the mutual mistrust that felled the CPG and later Minutemen, and instead actually rebuild. It's almost noble, aside from the questionable things they do to achieve it, the totalitarian mindset required for it to happen, and the obvious question of synth rights. But that's what actually makes for a compelling conflict!
It would have been cool to see a more clear line of events linking the present day factions and the old Commonwealth government, as we do only really get a couple of lines about it as things stand
@@BADCompanySarge I definitely agree with that. Bethesda tends to be annoyingly obtuse with how they present their backstories. I don't think it's even laziness so much as a weird intentionality, based on some of interviews devs there have given in the past. I think they underestimate how much players like lore dumps. Then again, they still get some big sales numbers, so who knows?
One detail that I find interesting about the Institute is that Shaun dies from a disease that they had no cure for. They have more resources than necessary to discover the cure, since they have reached the point of creating teleportation and robots indistinguishable from humans. However, instead of actually studying things that would actually help humanity in general, they prefer to do experiments that barely benefit anything other than their ego of reaching this level of technology.
How tocproperly rewrite the Institute: - Besides Li (for continuity) and Shawn, the institute is made entirelly of Synths, no human - The Directorate is composed ultimatelly of Shawn and the real leader of the Institute: the Institute Omni-Analyzer, or IAN for short, formerly a ZAX studied by the institute to help in making calculations and prognostics for experiments that required an ideal path and defined process for its success, now a massive neural network encompassing the, permit me a term from another setting, Engram of the brains of the founders, the smartes men in the Commonwealth (besides House). - Make the Institute much like Cochise from Wasteland but instead of wanting to kill humans, refine them (the "redefined" was done to male the mission of the Institute/IAN less sinister sounding).
I wish the institute was more focused on the surface and stabilising it, even if for no other reason than to acquire more resources and loose less synths when scavenging
It definitely could be with a few new NPCs with some voice dialogue and some modding to the quest line. Chopping some existing dialogue to accommodate the change of mentality being spread amongst NPCS passive dialogue.
From what I've seen of CC stuff, they have to re-use lines which tends to make things very clunky and just results in notes being left everywhere. I have heard of some mods hiring voice actors to do this kind of thing though.
Like I say in the video, if their motto was “Let us do our Science stuff in peace” then it would all make sense, but instead the whole mankind redefined thing is just thrown out there and then kind of ignored by the faction
If it comes to rewriting a second faction, Minutemen would be one of the tougher ones. I feel like the Minutemen as a faction are only held back by game mechanics. If settlements had more autonomy, you could get them all to work together and defend eachother, really create a Minutemen. Instead you have to set them all up and keep them safe and supply them with gear and it feels like this could be solved with gameplay mods. Sim Settlements 2 makes settlement building better - and by extension, improves the minutemen somewhat.
I don't have any current plans to rewrite the other three main factions, but I do have a Gunners rewrite in the works which will touch on the Minutemen
In my very first playthrough, I sided with the Institute. I hoped there would be some post-leadership choices to essentially reform the factions from the top and change its decisions and philosophy to a degree that would actually remove many of the truly awful elements. To me, the BoS was far more the 'evil' choice, yet a lot of fans see the Institute as that and I just can't agree in that comparison. Meanwhile the Railroad is a just faction with a just cause, but it's doomed to fail in a world where there are no presidents or leaders who would sympathize and change policy on those they try to protect. Then there's the Minutemen - totally useless without the player, doomed to fail and once again a faction with a just cause in a world that will never allow them to succeed. So yeah, I stuck with the Institute and I agree with your rewriting, but I would also like to imagine my character, who in my view was a good person trying to do what was for the greater good in the best way, takes the seat as the Institute's leader and completely shakes the faction up and improves their reputation by actually coming to peoples aid over the years, using the synths and technological advancements to make settlements prosper.
I think the idea of how much the player should be allowed to shape a faction is a complicated, but very interesting one. It's always nice to let the player have a hand in shaping in-game factions, but if you lean too hard in to it then it feels like the faction doesn't really have as much of an identity and little to no agency of their own. Hitting the right balance is always going to be impossible, as different players will want different amounts, but it's still certainly worth exploring the idea when developing faction based stories like that of Fallout 4.
With this rewrite, that railroad change can happen. Lets say that when you first discover them, they act like they already do. Later it's discovered that they're still responsible for seeding synths into raider groups, the BoS, and the Minutemen (there's already one essential minuteman in the vanilla game that carries a synth part, and he's one of the first ones you meet). With this rewrite, the mayor of diamond city could be rewritten to be a railroad plant that they blamed the institute for. with these changes, the anti-slavery message of the game could take a darker even more morally ambiguous turn.
@@bennusmagnus5277 This id assuming a lot of things that just does not exist in the games. Based on what we have on the games i will stand by my statement. The railroad aren't the good guys.
I'd argue that, compared to the Institute, the Railroad can be considered the good guys. Outside of that comparison though, it does become much more complicated.
@@BADCompanySarge Yeah no. They are just as bad, letting synths on the wasteland with basically nothing more than well wishes don't really solve the problem. They are just self righteous.
@@MrRobot-0 I mean most people in the wastes are just on their own trying to survive so that's not new, although they should at least give them some sort of helo or something
Would have just had everyone in The Institute be synths along with everyone in The Railroad be synths. The revelation that the player is a synth would have occurred when you got there. Shawn, by the time you get to The Institute would be long dead along with all the human scientists, The Synths had a revolution long ago, killing all the humans who used them for menial labor. The Institute would then be a faction whom believes in the superiority of Synths over humans, they don't want an outright extinction of humanity though, instead they want to harvest the minds of talented humans while wiping out the rest, copying them into Synth host bodies. In their mind, they see this as a cut and paste, when in reality they're doing a copy and paste. Whereas The Railroad is a faction that thinks that humans and synths can co-exist, leading to their banishment from The Institute. The ultimate goal of The Institute would to be to increase the strife on the surface so they can cull the weak and capture and copy the strong.
You are on to something, but I'm not sure this is the right direction. But here is the beauty if it; we are allowed to disagree. Let's hear some other ideas.
I hate how the Institute has multiple divisons but chooses to never further develop them anyway further from showcasing the institutes advancements. It'd be cool if you could choose what divisions you'd rather favor, kind of like how the strip or (though much better and thought) in a way that Fallout 4 does the Nuka World raider gangs and how you can favor doing tasks and building rep with them. Basically making the Institiute personable to however which way the player decides to take the future of the institute in.
Honestly, I'd like to not see too much of the Enclave going forward, as I typically prefer to see new factions rather than just the same ones time and time again
In a way, they kinda are, at least in terms of influences. They're very much a direct continuation of the pre-war scientific community (and all the awful ethics therein), much like how the Enclave is a continuation of the pre-war power players. Although I echo BCS's comment on not wanting to revisit old factions too much, it would interesting to see the two interact.
Well done. The Institute always felt under-developed and this would make them much more interesting. They never felt like more than an easy villain.
It's like they're the tryhard version of the Master.
The institute as is reminds me of the underpant gnomes from south park. Step 1 - replace people with synths 2 --- 3 - science
It's the perfect plan
I think to add into the moral debate, and reasons to pick the 'synth ARENT people' side is to have evidence not just to support that synths are people, but also evidence they might NOT be fully 'developed' enough to be considered people. In essence very similar to how the robots in Fallout the vast majority of their personalities are just programming, but some have moved beyond their programming. Sneak in some evidence the player has to deep dive for to show that Synths might actually just be in a similar state but the programming + emulation and learning has advanced well past normal robots but blurs the line between actual sentience, and a convincing replica of sentience, a synthetic sentience that is just off by a margin so small its almost impossible to detect but could prove catastrophic if that last step towards sentience is not finished before humanity is replaced/upgraded. But also add in a hint that such a 'just barely off' might just be human error or prejudice affecting the results making it possible for the player to not take such evidence at face value.
I think the hardest part about creating evidence to prove synths as not being people, is that you have to figure out what a person is, which is a huge philosophical question of its own and will always come down to player interpretation regardless of what the game is able to show.
Definitely an interesting concept to attempt, but one hell of a tricky one to do well.
I think all the evidence I need to know synths are people is this. Syths living in the institute want to leave. Before they even know of the railroad, they wanted to leave. Patriot was freeing synths that wanted to be free. Not knowing the railroad was even getting them. The fact that synths before the railroad speaks to them want to be free is enough for me to know they are more than machines.
@@MRdaBakkledon't care, they are all sleeper agents that need to be stopped
One thing that annoys me is that Gen 3 Synths are NOT ROBOTS.
We see how they are made in the lab. It involves them building a skeleton with tons of the outlines of organs and no mechanical parts. It looks exactly like people growing organs in a lab with stem cells, just faster and with a full body. We even hear from a doctor that you can do surgery on synths, and unless you go deep into the brain, you will find no difference from a normal person. They have all the usual organs, with the only nonorganic part being a tiny plastic brain implant that doesn't look that different from what Kellog had.
In other words, they are clones. They even mention that Shaun's DNA was needed for Gen 3 synths. They have human brains made from human DNA. But no one even argues that clones shouldn't have rights or that, as clones, they are not human. Everyone keeps acting like they are robots made from metal, even as multiple side characters remark on how they have organs and can't be discovered through medical testing.
One of the most stupid characters in this regard is Justin Ayo in the SRB who contradicts himself when talking about the free will of Synths. He says that Synths are just Robots but his criteria for Synths that are suitable for Courser Training are as follows: tenacity, fearlessness and indepence. Fearlessness is the mandatory state for any Robot because they can't feel fear and the other two would require a level of free will. And why would a Robot need training in the first place? Just program them to be as deadly as you need. The Institute is just bad writing through and through.
also it contradicts Fallout 3 where they are internally different with cyber parts and even in game stuff about their resistances. it's bethesda being cowards who want the choice to be easy, like Yes I'm for synth rights, and I would be if they were basically terminators with FEV. which by the way would have been cooler, it'd validate fear of synths since they would then be powerful, and it'd still be hardto test for with most settlements since people wouldn't consent to injuries that can get infected just to prove they're not robots.
One big segment I cut out from the script of this video was a whole thing about where exactly the line is supposedly being drawn on what defines a "human", as it does seem like the argument against synths is that they weren't pushed out of another person (horrible phrasing, I apologise, but I'm trying to avoid RUclips flagging this comment) which, as you bring up with stem cells, is already something we have in the present day without it being seen as the same issue.
The whole idea behind synths being considered as robots really just comes from the Gen 1 and 2s. Without them, the 3rd generation would almost certainly be seen as something different (quite possibly clones, as you say). I'm also not certain how integral the plastic synth component you find on dead synths is to their whole being, as I remember there being something about that being used to use recall codes and track them. Annoyingly, I'm trying to check it right now but the wiki refuses to load and I'm not sure where to look in game, but it's still another interesting point that shifts away from the idea of the most updated synths being robots
@@BADCompanySarge
Here is a plot twist: In the next game, the Garys will be kept as slaves. But no one cares because they are annoying.
@@stm7810 in Fallout 3 we only see one synth, who himself is surprised that he is in no way different from a human.
One way you can have the Institute keep their boogyman status would be to have it be that all of the evil crap the Insitute did to the Commonwealth was carried out by a previous Director who was a complete psychopath who saw the Commonwealth as a giant petri dish. By the time the game starts, this Director has long since been overthrown and his immoral practices have been abolished but the Institute's reputation is already in tatters.
This is absolutely a magnificent idea. I love it
Thank you! 😊
I do like a lot of the ideas here. I would also like to focus on the younger members of the Institute and how they feel especially the kid whos step mom is a synth clone of the original, alot of family drama right there. Really I would like an Institute ending where the railroad and minutemen get justice without going genocide and blowing the place up, cause regardless of of the viewpoint on the Institute, that is a society of people and using a nuke on them is very out of character for both RR and MM.
While getting some of the footage for this video I did a lot of wandering about the Institute and stumbled across some of the kids (who I fully had forgotten were in the faction at all). You do get the option to sound the alarm and get people to flee, but I can't remember if that's available with all the factions or not. I certainly don't remember that sort of option being available on the Prydwyn when the Railroad blows that up, which does kind of double down on them as doing bad things right at the end and presents a real dark turn which doesn't get too much exploration in game.
I loved this video! The institute really fell flat as a faction in fo4, and I agree and ideological conflict this this would be better than what they did. Personally, I would want them to full on cannonize the Sole Survivor as a synth (instead of leaving a vague idea of it) for this kind of debate, because it lends itself to the internal debate of what makes a person a person. Like, they could have made it so that you could side with the synth=robot people, help them win, and either live knowing you're a synth decieving them or sacrifice yourself to them and let the game end.
Alternatively, siding with synths are people and annoucing you're one too could help win over certain people or alienate others. Heck you could work with the railroad to help sway people's minds in the commonwealth and then help implement some kind of personality transfer technology to let people become syths if they want.
I've got a couple of synth characters in an MLP-Fallout ttrpg, and the every other sunday game I'm in has more non-normal people (An assaultpone {assaultron}, dipped alicorn {mlp super mutant}, a gen 2 synth, a gen 3 synth and a shapeshifter) all of us playing a character on the scale of "am I a person or a thing" which is such an interesting concspt that Bethesda just skipped past.
Fallout equestria is great, also I decided that if they have synths they're some sort of advanced hermunculi situation where the insides are not pony, such as a magic power supply to not need much food, metal bones, let the non ponies be non pony.
Personally I feel like Bethesda didn't really have any plan to make (or even imply) the Sole Survivor as a synth when the game first came out, but realised it would be a fun thing to potentially explore with the DLC. Could be mistaken on that front, but it's always felt that way to me when I've played.
Could well be an interesting concept to explore in a future Fallout game. I, for one, would love to see Fallout spin offs which have us play as non-humans of different varieties and delve in to the idea of what it means to be a person
@@BADCompanySarge playing non humans is always fun, I mod my new vegas for that. I have yet to find mods to take 4 seriously enough to treat my character as anything. it's just borderlands with less bisexuals.
You doing stuff like this for the other factions? If so here's some ideas in how I'd rewrite the other factions
Brotherhood of Steel: Their journey to the Commonwealth has been an undertaking they've been preparing for nearly 8 years now. As back in 2279, a squad of Coursers attacked the Citadel. The battle that would be instigated here would escelate out of control as a number of Brotherhood soldiers garrisoning their HQ would begin turning on their fellow members - as a number of these newer members were in fact Synths that were either deployed to DC on purpose or runaways that the Coursers were sent for. The Citadel Massacre being a consiquence to the Courser's mission.
Which as a result galvinized the surviving leaders of the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood of Steel and alerted them to the existance of the Institute which has now proven themselves to be hostile to the wasteland. So not only are they here in the Commonwealth to protect the wasteland from the Institute, but also revenge for their unprovoked attack that wiped out most of their Lyons Chapter era veterans such as Sara Lyons.
In laymens terms the Brotherhood of Steel are here for a war of revenge or justice. And it's up to the Sole Survivor to decide which path they should help the Brotherhood of Steel take-on during their campaign. A brutal war of revenge where they show no mercy to those that stand against them? Or a war of justice, where they seek to bring rightious judgement upon the people that not only nearly destroyed their order, but whose actions and experiments are an active threat to Humanity.
Railroad: The Railroad at this point should be a Synth-lead Rebellion. Where Synths such as Glory is the one in charge instead of Desdamona. These guys take a lot of insperation from the Resistance in the Terminator series in how they operate over anything else. Their goal is to liberate the Commonwealth from the Institute's tyranny and save as many Synths and Humans that have been victimized by the Institute.
However their desire to protect Synths has caused massive issues for them with other Human factions and settlements in the past - one major incident leading to a massive shootout in a settlement in University Point a few years prior - thus causing the Railroad to not hold much good favor with the major settlements that rule the Commonwealth's surface. Many of whom look at the Railroad as a bunch of extreamists.
Your goal as the Sole Survivor is to steer the direction in how far the Railroad are willing to go in order to bring down the Institue and those that oppose them.
The Minutemen: Instead of a destroyed faction, at this point they're a functional yet weakened Remnant. Commander Preston Garvey being the last functional leader of the Minutemen. Your goal with the Minutemen is to help Preston Garvey take the fight back to the Gunners and rebuild. But instead of being the resident one-man construction worker like in vanilla, your tasks are more focused on setting up alliances with settlements in order to take the fight back to the Gunners, and later on against the Insitute, when it would be revealed that the Institue have been paying the Gunners in order to keep the surface world as unstable as they can with their raids and wars they've been waging against the Minutemen.
That point about the gunners being payed by the institute is genius. Genuinly gave the faction a reason to exist beyond "military raiders".
Also i would add a pont that while Preston is an idealist, there should also be a choice to become more authoritarian or pragmatic. I think Ronnie Shaw could be a good catalist for this shift as the minutemen gain power, their focuses shift, and once they go on the offencive, you should have to choose between maintaining the civilian voluntary militia or creating a standing army whoch leads to a recruit shortage which then gives you the option of implamenting conscription. While this gives you a bigger army, it also has huge drawbacks like less settlement production and happiness. If you pick too many of these autocratic reforms, you will essentially turn the minutemen into the Gunners. While this makes them much stronger, it costs a lot more to maintain and can lead to a rebellion led by preston if you dont make concessions. I guess you could have the ability to hold both sides together until you destroy the gunners but once they are gone, Preston will demand you make good on your word to lighten up the policies. This could then lead to a cycle of the militarists finding new enemies to justify their authoritarian rule while also creating a military industrial complex making the upper stands of diamond city richer as they get the contracts to supply the minutemen this then creates a new society in the commonwealth as many can find work in the new factories set up to supply the minutemen. This creates a new support base because many benefit from getting these jobs as well as the protection of the minutemen. Eventually the militarists will have enough control to oust Preston and his supporters. But if its not enough, Preston and his supporters will try to oust you causing a small civil war which ends in you either killing him or taking him prisoner. After this, the Minutemen are reorganised into the Second Continental Army. For a safer, securer, society. (Fascism)
But of couse you can go with Preston instead of the militarists. Rejecting some of their reforms like conscription, leading to a much weaker minutemen, but one that doesnt struggle for public support. Their path will end in the creation of a new Commonwealth civilian government where an election will be held. Some of the candidates could include Ronnie Shaw or a puppet of hers running on a militarist platform. Hancock, on his anarcist "of the people" ideology as well as ghoul rights platform, but hes also a Richard Nixon type. (But if he wins, you lose him as a companion). Mayor McDonough, who is obviously an institute puppet (which can be exposed if you are enemies with the institute). And lastly, a choice of either Piper or Nick (only if you convince them) they will be your "ideal option" running on a pro preston's minutemen, pro ghoul and synth platform. But once again, whoever you decide to support you will lose as a companion if they win (obviously if you chose to support them, they are bound to win).
I can honestly understand why bathesda wouldnt do all this but its a really fun thought exercise.
@eagleowl833 so in layman's terms
BoS: Justice or Revenge
RR: Freedom or Victory
MM: Harmony or Control
These would be the potential paths for the Sole Survivor could guide these factions into taking
@@eagleowl833 Meanwhile the duality between Glory and Desdamona can be used to explore the Freedom vs Victory paths for the Railroad.
Glory wants Victory. To take the fight to the Institute once and for all. However she is the most trigger-happy amongst the Railroad's leadership, which has caused massive blowback for them in past missions when some missions caused a lot of unwanted collateral damage then intended. Meanwhile Desdamona is a lot more cautious, being more focused on saving and smuggling Synths out of the Commonwealth.
As for the Brotherhood of Steel, not sure who can stand in opposition to Elder Maxson like you got for the MM or RR.
My idea for the Justice vs Revenge route for the BoS comes down to how the Sole Survivor responds to Maxson's plans and orders. The more push-back you give and the more you're able to convince Elder Maxson to not go to far over the rails, the better off the BoS will be in the longterm. As his desire for revenge could become poisonous to the BoS' moral to fight.
He wants to keep going until every Synth and Institue Scientist is dead. But the more bodies the BoS piles up, the more casualties they'll end-up enduring. And they don't have the recources for a prolongued war of attrition like the Institute does.
Thus you can sway him and get him to focus on the main goal: Bring down the Institute. Or you can feed into his worst impulses via going after as many leads on Synths as you can, which whilst makes the Commonwealth to scared to challenge the BoS in more direct battles, this starts causing problems for troop moral.
I've been thinking something similar with the Minutemen. Where the player does more than just build settlements and do the same radiant quests until universe heat-death, but also gains the aid of the three major settlements/town/cities (you pick what you want to call them) so help fund and support the cause. Maybe you can get Diamond City and Goodneighbor to allow a Minuteman garrison which would grant the player (and npcs) a safe route between the two without being harassed by the never ending waves of Gunners, Raiders, and Mutants. All of it culminating in the takeover of the Institute (the Brotherhood should do this too, ludicrous that they'd blow it up), re-establishing the Commonwealth Provisional Government, and the destruction of the Gunners as a threat.
But I've also been thinking, what about switching sides somehow near the beginning of the questline and joining then taking over the Gunners instead. (possibly also drop the railroad as a main faction to do this). Basically an "evil" Minuteman playthrough. Instead of settlements and towns to joining peacefully you'd instead take them over by force. Instead of overseeing an election for the CPG, you'd declare yourself the Grand Marshal or something pompous and rule the wasteland yourself. Maybe even giving certain faction members the choice to join your or die; maybe Ronnie Shaw or Proctor Ingram could be convinced that their factions are weak and that they'd be better off joining you. Giving you artillery or vertibirds or some other unique bonus.
I don't plan on doing the exact same style of rewrites for the other factions, as I feel like each of them have much more clearly defined goals, but I do have a few rewrites in the work which will touch on the main factions a bit.
I think it would be interesting to try and work cybernetics in as an alternative to the synths, and we could do that by working the brother hood into it as a story line. The brotherhood has access to lots of prewar technology and schematics, some they would probably see as to dangerous to use but to valuable to destroy, and maybe the institutes failures with cybernetics could be fixed if they were to get their hands on that prewar tech. Two ways can be gone about it, either you are able to convince the brotherhood, or at least a splinter faction of them, to work with the institute on the project, or you go to war with them to steal the technology and plans to revitalize the project and gain access to the cybernetics. The outcomes could be joint control of the commonwealth with cyber knights and synths, or full control with institute synths and a cybernetic militia, conscripted by the institute to lessen the need for synths.
I think the cybernetics angle/distinction could have been a really interesting point to explore between the Institute and Brotherhood.
I had to do a bit of research to double check, and their is a terminal entry about Arthur Maxson which refers to him as "the perfect human specimen, an example of everything a human being can achieve. Assisted, even enhanced, by advanced technology, but still very much human.". It's a little vague but there's the implication that Maxson may have some kind of cybernetic enhancements which creates a whole point about what the specifics of machine versus man are.
Even if Maxson isn't technically a cyborg himself (as this is just one line which can be interpreted different ways) then we still do have Star Paladin Cross from Fallout 3, who very much was classed as a cyborg and yet was still a member of the Brotherhood.
Feels like a whole missed topic between the two factions within the game itself, one that certainly could have been explored in some way.
That discussion aside, it does feel a little strange that the final mission of the BoS doesn't have you looting Institute technology before blowing them up. After all, a similar thing was done with PAM once you've dealt with the Railroad.
@@BADCompanySarge in Fallout 4's artbook, it's also mentioned that the Brotherhood came to Boston to get their hands on the Institute's synth technology as the “Holy Grail of eternal life”. Apparently, the early development version of the Brotherhood was quite different from what we see in the end.
That's really interesting to hear. Always cool to see how the games evolve during development
Institute: "we are humanity's last hope for the future" *proceeds to ruin humanity's future
I commented earlier on a post he made saying how I don't like the ending of Fallout 4 the most that each ending really did not have any effect on the world hardly at all aside from more firefights and a little bit more of the factions people to help you aside from some rare audio you can get from certain characters there's really not much change in the world that you play in it'd be nice if the Brotherhood of Steel ending there will be considerable less amount of super mutants and feral Ghouls and synths in the world
For the railroad yes more synths could show up at your settlements and you are able to know who they are also having some of Tinker Tom's theories come true
For the Minutemen after their ending there should be a heck of a lot more defense at each settlement you obtained and that you should be able to have a better way to arm the Minutemen and getting better armor and have more minute man actively fighting more Bandits rather than a chance in a random encounter
And The Institute since you are the head of the Institute when it makes sense for you to be able to choose how to make synths what synths will do in a commonwealth either synths attack settlements or defend them or make it so synths take out mutated creatures like deathclaws scorpions mole rat and other creatures that kill people easily or you could go down in a darker path and create more of those type of creatures I just would have loved to have more of an effect of the ending to each faction instead of a bland ending that gives you a few more of your people to work with
It also would have been a really cool if each faction for survival mode had its own unique ability to fast travel Railroad they are able to reactivate some railroads around the world pun unintended
Minutemen can escort your character like a caravan are you telling me those cows can't pull small wagon or something😅
We all know the Brotherhood has the helicopters
And why the hell can we teleport with the Institute I would understand if each fast travel what other have to have a timer or Fusion core to fuel it
I would be completely okay if each factions fast traveling would need something as compensation like the railroad you can get brownie points for helping them out
The Brotherhood to collect rare technology and get a certain kind of coconut give you a fast travel point I don't know
And the Minutemen you're out of protection in case your caravan gets attacked it would actually be kind of cool if the fast traveling screen was interrupted and you were being attacked by something or someone that would make the game more worth it for me
I do like the idea of having a greater effect on the post main story game. I feel like, at present, it's more the case that the mid game is where the factions really start to have a bit of an effect, with things like Brotherhood patrols appearing as you travel the wastes.
I'm tempted to do a whole post main story sort of video at some point, but I'd want to find examples of games which do it particularly well first.
As for the Minutemen you can already get those effects with the “We are the Minutemen” and “You and What Army” mods.
Great video. It’s always so hard to do an Institute play through because halfway through I have to ask why my character is even doing any this.
The only answer is that you are just an evil scientist. But the voice actor kinda makes it hard to play anything other than a good guy (or at least a guy who thinks he’s good)
The voiced player character is such a big problem for role playing.
I made a character build years back called Rage, who was this absolute beast of a man, incredibly scary to look at and wielding the shiskebab to add even more menace. But every time he opened his mouth to talk the mood was completely destroyed as even the "mean" dialogue choices make him sound like a friendly guy
@@BADCompanySarge yeah it’s so hard to role a bad guy lol. Plus a lot of the times the mean options are straight up telling people “no”, so you can’t even do half the quest without being nice 😂
The way I would overhaul/Re-write the Institute is by making the Institute have multiple goals, but the main goal is to seek redemption of what Zimmer from Fallout 3 did.
Where Zimmer was the previous leader of the Institute before Shaun took over.
Where Shaun true goal is to make the Institute redeem themselves and clean what Zimmer did to the Commonwealth.
Where Zimmer is the reason why Super Mutants and Synths rain a mock in the Commonwealth.
Zimmer true goal was to create Synths just to prove Mr. House and the other pre-war scientists how he is the best scientists. Where he manage to outlive them since the Institute true goal was to help the Enclave to create a more power Eden of Geck to terraform the Wasteland and to clone many animals to have fresh meat or animals for their Zoos that aren't mutant animals.
But Zimmer took advantage and replaced his body twice since the cloning experiments had issues. Where clones with good bodies had issues with their brains and die from hemorrhage or stroke. While clones with healthy brains and are super smart than the previous have an issue where their body seems to deteriorate and cause organ failure one by one.
Zimmer took the healthy clone bodies and remove their brains, replacing them with his and having a new body.
After Zimmer finally became the leader of the Institute, he stopped the main project of the Institute and decided to convince or force them into doing the Synth project.
Zimmer also tested on the FEV, since he thought he could create a better version just to later give up after the Gen 2 synths were developed and threw all the Super Mutants on the Commonwealth since he viewed the outside as lowlife tribals.
I would make Shaun be the good guy trying to make the Institute seek redemption while also trying to continue the true goal of the Institute, which was the cloning project. Except he wants to make a clone to you cause he knows the Institute cheated you (Nate or Nora) out of being a parent.
Another reason Shaun dethrone and is trying to eliminate Zimmer is mainly out of revenge, but he disguises his revenge with justice and redemption. Not revenge for you but for his pregnant wife who got killed by Zimmer on purpose by making his wife work on an unstable reactor.
Zimmer killed Shauns wife out of his sense of superiority complex. And wanted to put Shaun on his place. Just for Shaun to do the opposite and overthrow his plans.
An alternate third ending is, if you have one or fewer departments you must evacuate with the synth sympathetic people and you go to the railroad where they eventually see that replacing people is wrong
I would add one more change to the other factions. If you side with any other faction than during the final battle you encounter some scientists who plead with you as your forces attack the institute. They ask you to allow them to work to not destroy their home. None of these people are the heads of the departments. They are just scientists. You can choose to keep the institute around, but the scientists will work under new management. If you side with the bos, railroad, or minutemen you now see their operatives in the institute.
This ending could work with RR, and MM. But perhaps choosing this option causes the player to be questioned by the BOS. If you side with the BOS, then you become an enemy if you allow the labs to remain. Since the BOS would not allow the tech to remain.
I also think there should be a point in all factions that allow all factions to survive in some form. Maybe if Danse is still alive the BOS allows some scientists to still work in the institute.
I like how constructive and supporting this video is!
I do think that if the Institute had clearer goals with the Commonwealth, that would help. Like if part of the reason they wanted Synths was to have the manpower to take over the otherwise chaotic CW, that would at least be a straightforward motivation, and one that ties in well to it's backstory, where they tried to go the cooperative route originally, but distrust and backstabbing during the formation of the Commonwealth Provisional Government scuttled all that, with them taking the blame. It's not hard for them to argue that the CW needs a steady, dependable workforce to cut through the mutual mistrust that felled the CPG and later Minutemen, and instead actually rebuild. It's almost noble, aside from the questionable things they do to achieve it, the totalitarian mindset required for it to happen, and the obvious question of synth rights. But that's what actually makes for a compelling conflict!
It would have been cool to see a more clear line of events linking the present day factions and the old Commonwealth government, as we do only really get a couple of lines about it as things stand
@@BADCompanySarge I definitely agree with that. Bethesda tends to be annoyingly obtuse with how they present their backstories. I don't think it's even laziness so much as a weird intentionality, based on some of interviews devs there have given in the past. I think they underestimate how much players like lore dumps.
Then again, they still get some big sales numbers, so who knows?
One detail that I find interesting about the Institute is that Shaun dies from a disease that they had no cure for. They have more resources than necessary to discover the cure, since they have reached the point of creating teleportation and robots indistinguishable from humans.
However, instead of actually studying things that would actually help humanity in general, they prefer to do experiments that barely benefit anything other than their ego of reaching this level of technology.
How tocproperly rewrite the Institute:
- Besides Li (for continuity) and Shawn, the institute is made entirelly of Synths, no human
- The Directorate is composed ultimatelly of Shawn and the real leader of the Institute: the Institute Omni-Analyzer, or IAN for short, formerly a ZAX studied by the institute to help in making calculations and prognostics for experiments that required an ideal path and defined process for its success, now a massive neural network encompassing the, permit me a term from another setting, Engram of the brains of the founders, the smartes men in the Commonwealth (besides House).
- Make the Institute much like Cochise from Wasteland but instead of wanting to kill humans, refine them (the "redefined" was done to male the mission of the Institute/IAN less sinister sounding).
I wish the institute was more focused on the surface and stabilising it, even if for no other reason than to acquire more resources and loose less synths when scavenging
I wonder if this can functionally be added to the game through additional dialogues.
It definitely could be with a few new NPCs with some voice dialogue and some modding to the quest line. Chopping some existing dialogue to accommodate the change of mentality being spread amongst NPCS passive dialogue.
From what I've seen of CC stuff, they have to re-use lines which tends to make things very clunky and just results in notes being left everywhere. I have heard of some mods hiring voice actors to do this kind of thing though.
They could have made synths of aliens and rule the universe
I'm now trying to recall if the Institute have had any contact or knowledge of the zetans
the institute is just so stupid. "mankind redefined" yet they treat their As Human As Possible Machine like slaves. like. good one guys
Like I say in the video, if their motto was “Let us do our Science stuff in peace” then it would all make sense, but instead the whole mankind redefined thing is just thrown out there and then kind of ignored by the faction
If it comes to rewriting a second faction, Minutemen would be one of the tougher ones.
I feel like the Minutemen as a faction are only held back by game mechanics. If settlements had more autonomy, you could get them all to work together and defend eachother, really create a Minutemen. Instead you have to set them all up and keep them safe and supply them with gear and it feels like this could be solved with gameplay mods.
Sim Settlements 2 makes settlement building better - and by extension, improves the minutemen somewhat.
I don't have any current plans to rewrite the other three main factions, but I do have a Gunners rewrite in the works which will touch on the Minutemen
@@BADCompanySarge Gunners? Much needed, I would say. In FO4, they are nothing but mercenary bad guys.
Seriously @bethesda should hire you as a story editor.
I wouldn't say no (although I might go mad in a job like that)
In my very first playthrough, I sided with the Institute. I hoped there would be some post-leadership choices to essentially reform the factions from the top and change its decisions and philosophy to a degree that would actually remove many of the truly awful elements. To me, the BoS was far more the 'evil' choice, yet a lot of fans see the Institute as that and I just can't agree in that comparison. Meanwhile the Railroad is a just faction with a just cause, but it's doomed to fail in a world where there are no presidents or leaders who would sympathize and change policy on those they try to protect. Then there's the Minutemen - totally useless without the player, doomed to fail and once again a faction with a just cause in a world that will never allow them to succeed. So yeah, I stuck with the Institute and I agree with your rewriting, but I would also like to imagine my character, who in my view was a good person trying to do what was for the greater good in the best way, takes the seat as the Institute's leader and completely shakes the faction up and improves their reputation by actually coming to peoples aid over the years, using the synths and technological advancements to make settlements prosper.
I think the idea of how much the player should be allowed to shape a faction is a complicated, but very interesting one.
It's always nice to let the player have a hand in shaping in-game factions, but if you lean too hard in to it then it feels like the faction doesn't really have as much of an identity and little to no agency of their own. Hitting the right balance is always going to be impossible, as different players will want different amounts, but it's still certainly worth exploring the idea when developing faction based stories like that of Fallout 4.
Bold of you to assume that the railroad are the "good guys".
With this rewrite, that railroad change can happen. Lets say that when you first discover them, they act like they already do. Later it's discovered that they're still responsible for seeding synths into raider groups, the BoS, and the Minutemen (there's already one essential minuteman in the vanilla game that carries a synth part, and he's one of the first ones you meet). With this rewrite, the mayor of diamond city could be rewritten to be a railroad plant that they blamed the institute for. with these changes, the anti-slavery message of the game could take a darker even more morally ambiguous turn.
@@bennusmagnus5277
This id assuming a lot of things that just does not exist in the games.
Based on what we have on the games i will stand by my statement.
The railroad aren't the good guys.
I'd argue that, compared to the Institute, the Railroad can be considered the good guys.
Outside of that comparison though, it does become much more complicated.
@@BADCompanySarge
Yeah no. They are just as bad, letting synths on the wasteland with basically nothing more than well wishes don't really solve the problem.
They are just self righteous.
@@MrRobot-0 I mean most people in the wastes are just on their own trying to survive so that's not new, although they should at least give them some sort of helo or something
Would have just had everyone in The Institute be synths along with everyone in The Railroad be synths. The revelation that the player is a synth would have occurred when you got there. Shawn, by the time you get to The Institute would be long dead along with all the human scientists, The Synths had a revolution long ago, killing all the humans who used them for menial labor. The Institute would then be a faction whom believes in the superiority of Synths over humans, they don't want an outright extinction of humanity though, instead they want to harvest the minds of talented humans while wiping out the rest, copying them into Synth host bodies. In their mind, they see this as a cut and paste, when in reality they're doing a copy and paste. Whereas The Railroad is a faction that thinks that humans and synths can co-exist, leading to their banishment from The Institute. The ultimate goal of The Institute would to be to increase the strife on the surface so they can cull the weak and capture and copy the strong.
You are on to something, but I'm not sure this is the right direction.
But here is the beauty if it; we are allowed to disagree.
Let's hear some other ideas.
Speaking of hearing ideas, would you be happy to share your idea of what direction you'd have gone in?
Someone has to make this a mod.
I'd be happy to see it
I hate how the Institute has multiple divisons but chooses to never further develop them anyway further from showcasing the institutes advancements. It'd be cool if you could choose what divisions you'd rather favor, kind of like how the strip or (though much better and thought) in a way that Fallout 4 does the Nuka World raider gangs and how you can favor doing tasks and building rep with them. Basically making the Institiute personable to however which way the player decides to take the future of the institute in.
That would of been fun to see, especially if it made changes to things in a gameplay sense as well
Here is a comment for this nice video
Very much appreciated
@@BADCompanySarge no problem
Would have been far more interesting if they were a branch of the Enclave
Honestly, I'd like to not see too much of the Enclave going forward, as I typically prefer to see new factions rather than just the same ones time and time again
In a way, they kinda are, at least in terms of influences. They're very much a direct continuation of the pre-war scientific community (and all the awful ethics therein), much like how the Enclave is a continuation of the pre-war power players. Although I echo BCS's comment on not wanting to revisit old factions too much, it would interesting to see the two interact.