Who most likely killed the Black Dahlia
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- Who most likely killed the Black Dahlia
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Hodel's son did an excellent job in documenting his father as the killer. Hodel's house had warrens of secret rooms and young women were constantly in and out of the house. The man was a sociopath and psychotic and finally ended up in San Francisco with his 5th wife and died there. The fact that the LAPD lost (destroyed) the evidence they had on the man is HIGHLY suspect and shows the amount of corruption that went on in the Department.
hodel’s son is a nut job who wanted his 5 seconds of fame and got it, and continues to profit off of it to this day.
Hodel's son did a hole-filled hack job on his father as killer and stepped on Elizabeth's Short's face to make a buck. Watch any of the Dahlia reports by Larry Harnisch. They show real scholarship, steeped in hard fact, that Hodel can't touch. Oh, and don't forget Hodel says his father is also the Zodiac killer. Sheesh.
I agree. Steve Hodel was a homicide detective with the Los Angeles Police Department and did a thorough examination regarding his father. Remember that Steve Hodel had a good relationship with his father and originally tried to prove his father's innocence.
Agree!! Thers crazy amount of evidence if his crimes
It is hard to imagine the Short killing to be a one-off. It was brazen, leaving the body exposed like in the Ripper killings in the last century. Cold, brutal, seemingly detached, the Dahlia killer was very confident.
He was definitely confident!! Makes me wonder if he had connections with "higher-ups" and knew he would be safe!!
Different time periods
I agree. Brazen/confident.
@@highcountrydelatite 59 years after the Ripper killings...I don't think so.
Big difference is the ripper did his killings at the scene where Short was killed elsewhere and placed
Whoever killed short was an accomplished surgeon as Short was not simply bisected, but the perp actually performed a full hemicorporectomy on short. This is an extremely difficult operation which requires severing the spinal cord between the L2 and L3 vertebrae, and making extremely difficult cuts at very precise locations. Per the coroner, whoever bisected Short was a very highly skilled and likely still practicing surgeon.
Why I think Hodel is guilty. I feel certain he had an accomplice though.
Seems some of the same was said about Jack the Ripper as well. Beast levels down to one man's interpretation of what he saw. And another person can come up with something entirely different.
I agree...
I agree with you that he had some one to help him. But I think that there was more than Elizabeth that they murdered because there is another book written about 8- 10 more victim's called my dark places ' by James Elroy. It tells how his mother was murdered along with the other. And if you have read about serial killers you know that they don't stop at just one. The other murders where commited in and around the cities of el Monty and Baldwin park it's a very interesting book.
Bayley and or his wife did it. She asked for an abortion.
This poor girl went through hell before she died. Tortured, raped, beaten and her face cut open all happened before death. Feces found in her stomach. Pieces cut from her breasts and thighs. She died of hemorrhage from the cuts to her mouth plus the beating she suffered. i think Hodel was a freak and he did this.
yeah,i just comment same thing, it wasn`t just "plane murder" 🤔
Hodel was a sick man and likely killed poor Elizabeth!!
And, don't forget, he enjoyed S and M. He was a sadist who enjoyed torturing.
I read Steve Hodel's book years ago and I've watched the video of Larry Harnisch presenting his case for Walter Bailey as the Dahlia killer. If I have to choose between the two, I'll go with Bailey. I think it likely that Bailey's girl friend, Russian doctor Elizabeth Kostova, bisected the body for ease-of-carry reasons, and dumped it on Norton Ave. Bailey's daughter, Barbara Lindgren, was Matron of Honor at the wedding of Virginia Short, Elizabeth's sister. His estranged wife lived 1/2 block away from the body dump site. Kostova had threatened Bailey's wife. Harnisch learned Barbara's identity by studying the marriage license of Virginia. The police detectives, sheriffs, etc. completely missed all this. Instead of doing a thorough investigation into the family, friends, and family associates of Short, the cops focused on sleazy pick ups from her bar crawling. Bailey and Kostova totally flew under the radar. Watch Harnisch's video. There is plenty more corroboration. He is a much more convincing suspect than George Hodel, depraved as Hodel was.
Put down the bong & listen carefully... Sorry, but Larry HarnIsch has little credibility & is way off base on some of his facts; his manner is unbecoming & he shouldn't be taken seriously as a 'writer' of any caliber.
I watched another special on this murder. Hodel was mentioned by his son. Hodel also worked in a clinic where he treatted a lot of STD's for public officials. If they had charged him he could have spilled the beans on a lot of public officials and embaressed them. That could be why he was never charged.
He was never charged because he didn't do it! His son also wrote about his father being the Zodiac killer FFS!
That is not even remotely true. Dr. Hodel ran a public VD clinic - far from the mighty public officials or Hollywood stars. (According to his wife Hodel was interested in medicine, not money.) That's the problem with Dr. Hodel's son. He plays people like a fiddle with made up stories. The reason the D.A. did not charge Dr. Hodel for Elizabeth Short's murder is because there was no evidence that he was in any way connected to her or the murder. Sorry - but this or any other doctor in Los Angeles did not have the city in its pocket. Listen, at some point everyone stops believing in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus. You don't have to believe the Hodel myths either.
He could have done it...but by the same token so could thousands of others...too much of a conspiracy theory without any real hard facts although interesting
Hodel was much more than "mentioned" by his son. Steve Hodel was a LAPD detective who spent DECADES on the case. I think he has successfully proven that his Dad is the murderer. I'm even more sure of this, because of the fact that the LAPD will not even talk about it. George used to bribe and extort LA cops. He also threw sex parties that LA cops would attend. He had SO much dirt on them, that they couldn't possibly arrest him for anything. Steve even found AUDIO recordings where he basically admitted to the murder (and to the bribery). Steve thinks his Dad committed over 50 murders of women, over decades.
@@spinsandneedles That is simply not accurate. First, Dr. Hodel also ran an illegal abortion clinic for the rich and famous, that was confirmed. Hodel was also very much an LAPD suspect in the Short killing as they bugged his offices. Did Hodel kill Short? I have no idea, just as you have no idea. There is quite a bit of circumstantial evidence against him but not enough for an indictment. Also, it was a proven fact Hodel did indeed molest his daughter. Those are facts just as his secretaries mysterious death right after the Short murder. Hodel was without any doubt a seriously messed up dude. However, if Hodel did it the likely reason he was not prosecuted was because of the illegal abortion clinic. Back in 1947 not only was abortion illegal, but all those involved would have been ruined and likely charged. This was during the notorious reign of the LAPD detectives know as the Hat Squad. From the late 30's until the late 50's, this group of very corrupt detectives essentially regulated all criminal activity of merit in LA. The LA mob even answered to the Hat Squad until they decided they would take over the rackets which they did after Mickey Cohen was indicted and went to jail in 1950.They ran the rackets for about a year or two until they themselves came under investigation at which point the Chicago Outfit regained control over the LA rackets. So in 1947, with the Hat Squad in charge, if someone like Hodel was involved with the murder they would have covered it up, just like they did with the murder of George Reeves in 1959.
Hodel's house was designed by Lloyd Wright, the son of Frank Lloyd Wright.
Frank Lloyd Wright himself was a nutjob and absolute sociopath. Read up on the guy as he was seriously psychotic.
YES!
It’s been used in quite a few movies/tv shows. The interior has a Aztec temple stone type design.
Frank Lloyd Wright was the victim of a spree killer. He designed another house in the Wisconsin countryside. A mentally I’ll hired hand brutally murdered Lloyds wife and seven other people at the house while Wright was away on business. The attacker set fire to the house and attacked the occupants with an axe.
Taliesin in Spring Green WI
@@brianmurphy250 I have a book here somewhere about the incident (that I have yet to open). I believe the murderers were an older married couple who were religious zealots and objected to Wright living in sin with the wife of a client and her children while Wright's wife lived in Chicago with his children.
The killing closely matched the M.O. of the Cleveland Torso Killer, whose spree in Cleveland ended not long before Short's murder. Another possible suspect...
Or the actual killer made it look like that killer did it. To throw the police off the scent.
@@highcountrydelatite failed on that. It crushed him.
It had to be someone who had a surgical background. The way the body was found speaks volumes.
Or a butcher
@@ToeKnife166a butcher wouldn’t have or shouldn’t have the anatomical knowledge whoever murdered her had . per the coroner there were cuts in and on her body that would reflect the work of a surgeon, likely one that was still operating as a surgeon at the time
I think about her a lot. Who could've hated her so much to hurt her in this way. To think the killer took his secret to the grave. 😢
I doubt it had anything to do with hate
How much do you think about her?
@@user-cv8qe9ru8c so much that eerily my daughter was born on January 14 the day her body was discovered.
A good psychic *may* be able to help you figure out the connection to you (or your child). Good luck!🍀
@@michaelpacinus242What do you think it was then? The killer definitely humiliated her and had a lot of rage according to her horrific injuries.
I’m in the middle of Hodel’s book. He killed her. Man Ray, an artist and friend of Hodel, had artwork that resembled the way he posed her body. He one hundred percent killed Short, and others.
Agreed he's certainly guilty of tons and tons of Epstein-like crimes. Epstein of the 1940s and beyond!
I read Hodel’s book years ago. I’m convinced it was his dad
It was not.
I also read the book. He did a lot of research on the case. I really believe it was his father.
@@rammibear9649 I agree it was Dr. Hodel!
I agree, I think it was Dr. Hodel
@@borisspringsteen1987 Thank you.I will check that out.
The fact that more women murdered in a similar fashion were appearing in the Philippines not too long after Hodel moved there makes him the most likely suspect in my opinion. While he was never arrested, the LAPD did suspect enough at the time to wiretap his home and he was also alleged to have sexually abused his own daughter in 1949. While I understand many are rightly skeptical of Stephen Hodel’s claims since he clearly didn’t have a good relationship with his father and his later books trying to link his father with the zodiac killings are, in my opinion, completely far-fetched and unreliable, I do think he is at least right about his father being involved in the black dahlia murder. I don’t think that any other books he’s written trying to link his father to well-known crimes is correct, but I also don’t think that automatically means he’s wrong in this one instance.
These are my thoughts, exactly.
I wouldn’t call the police investigation “through” since they revealed that they lost all the evidence…revealed in the response to Hodels book. Good job LAPD! 👍🏼
I've never heard of any investigation being referred to as "through". Or were you trying to spell "thorough"; Wow, you're obviously one to scrutinize law enforcement, huh? 🧐🤣
@@wymanmore3982The irony 🤣
Unfortunately, this video repeats a lot of inaccuracies and biases. People seem fixated on the idea that the Dalia killer and Jack the Ripper must have been involved in medicine to have done the dismemberment. That isn't really true; anyone can cut up a body (trust me, as a forensic anthropologist, I have seen it). Furthermore, almost everyone learned simple butchery until the advent of pre-cut meat from the supermarket became the norm around the 1950's and '60's.
Thank you for stating this. It is much more important that people realize or are even open to considering. You stated it brilliantly. Also I might add that while people seem to think cutting through a intervertebral disc cleanly is nearly impossible it is not. It's a body part.
It's kinda wild how food availability/variety can be a factor in so many differences things, like this possibly. Thanks for your insight!
The reason for the suggestion of surgical knowledge by the killer (of Elizabeth Short) is due to the accuracy of the bisection. It was likely done in a bathtub due to the rigor mortis curvature of her corpse. There's also some evidence the bisection started while Short was still alive. The bisection was accurate enough to have been precise between two vertebra without blade correction marks. Due to this, there is evidence of knowledge of surgery or at the very least, human anatomy. Since it took place a few short years after WW2, it could be the killer had knowledge of battle triage or was outright a doctor, coroner, surgeon, etc.
As for Jack the Ripper? I am in the school that in the Victorian Era over 80 years before the concept of serial killers was even put together? The killings might have been linked inaccurately by police or media... and a profile is definitely hard to place upon any one of the scenes, save that the (known) victims were all sex workers.
The latest that I heard with Jack the Ripper was an East European Immigrant that wasn't a doctor. I don't know what his trade was but he was supposed to have been a mental case.
@@minxella12 Aaron kosminsky...I don't think it was him but I am no expert
Hodel seems like a strong suspect to me!
Dr Hodel had a partner in crime
Me too!
He ran with a scurvy lot.
Me three.
Me, 4
Surely DNA could solve this mystery.
If at all possible they could exhume those bodies and determine which one was responsible.
Such a horrible way to die .
R.I.P Elizabeth
Unfortunately she was washed and cleaned before being disposed of so likely no dna would be present.However the letters that were subsequently sent in to the police department as well as the cement bags could have some DNA available for testing.
@Cece Rae A lot of the evidence from the Dahlia case has been lost, stolen, or misplaced. Some of the investigators who worked the case retired, and they took pictures and other "mementos" with them. I don't think there is anything left to test for DNA.
Watering , you wouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a crime scene because your not in law enforcement. You lack the writing skills needed to pass the entrance exams..You couldn’t even work as a private investigator due to your inability to apply for the necessary license .
The Short family doesn't speak on this, if seems. Maybe too much trauma
I go with George Hodel. I have read Steve Hodel"s book. It's quite compelling.
Me too. I would bet it was Hodel.
Any book about an unsolved crime or historical mystery will seem compelling if youve read nothing else about it. Serious students of the case fault Hodel's work for misleading exposition of elementary facts of the case, cherry-picking data to advance his thesis, and ignoring contrary evidence that undermines his conclusions. His subsequent charges that his father was also responsible for the Zodiac killings & other murders, all argued in followup volumes, imply that his motives may go beyond an admirable desire to solve a notorious cold case. George Hodel still could be the Black Dahlia culprit, but the casual reader must always reserve judgement until one has read numerous accounts from diverse sources, especially those most involved in the original investigation, and later sleuths who apply the sharpest critical standards to the evidence and to the arguments of their predecessors.
@@owlcowl Well said 🙂
@@owlcowl I've read numerous books on Elizabeth Short's murder, including Steve Hodel's. While I have problems with some of his leaps, and do not believe George Hodel was the Zodiac, I do believe his father brutally tortured and murdered Elizabeth Short.
A fascinating case, yes. But since there is little forensic evidence and no living witnesses, we will never truly know who murdered that poor woman. All we have is speculation and hypothesis.
Unless someone, somewhere is a distant relative of the person that may have made a death bed confession. Idk, wishful thinking I guess. I just really wish they could solve this
Elizabeth’s was reportedly seen with two females before the week she went missing by 3 or 4 witnesses. One of those females was a talk blonde. Neither of the females have been Identified or ever came forward to my knowledge as having known her. That’s something that unless had been reported falsely I can’t understand why no one seems to discuss.
Interesting. They never think of women as murderers.
Interesting choice for the example of a medical examiner - Frances Glessner Lee who created crime scene miniatures.
You portrayed the wrong woman as Dr. Walter Bayley's wife and parent of Barbara Lindgren. The woman you showed was Dr. Alexandra Partyka, Bayley's partner.
Hodel was not known in the L.A. "party" and "S&M" communities. Or were those names published somewhere?
Hodel did not buy a Frank Lloyd Wright property. The architect of the Sowden House was FLW's son - Lloyd Wright. According to Larry Harnisch Hodel's father owned the property.
You forgot to mention that Tamar Hodel also accused over a dozen other man and boys of rape including so-called "famous" Hollywood personalities. She sounds like an "attention seeking liar" to me but may have also been either abused or promiscuous or both.
Hodel was not on "a list of sex offenders where she (Elizabeth Short) was discovered."
Hodel was not a "well respected surgeon." You are repeating lies.
Right - "medical knowledge" by the killer was "suggested." Actually most of the suspects were not doctors - not surgeons. Most of the wounds and mutilations on the body of Elizabeth Short were violently crude or let's say easily made by most anyone handling a sharp-edged instrument. The bisection including the cut through the intervertebral disc at L2-L3 still could have been performed by a steady layman. (This speculation infuriates people who insist the killer was a surgeon.)
"At least eight witnesses claimed first hand knowledge of Hodel's and Short's relationship?!" That's your biggest lie.
Steve Hodel has not discovered "evidence" that his father murdered Short and other women too. In fact you forgot to mention he claims his father killed 50 men, women, and children across multiple states during 50 years. There is not a single shred of "evidence" for this claim of multiple famous murders, let alone a DNA connection in even one.
Right - the killer's identity and motive for the crime remain unknown.
Hodel produced some pretty F'd up children. he was guilty of something.
Thanks for sharing these details... It seems that it is not worth to watch it due to the bunch of lies or misundertandings!! 🙄
@@caroalfonzo2890 Thank you. I have to say I'm really disappointed that lies and misinformation are repeated in so many Black Dahlia videos. It really misleads people.
@@spinsandneedles That's right... And the sad point that one never know what really happened or who was the real killer. I have watched movies, documentaries, tv series about it because I like old cases like the Black Dahlia. I have always thought it was the doctor, now I am not sure... It will be a mystery to me.
I appreciate your post. There are so many lies and misconceptions about different cases in the true crime community. Can you recommend better source material in this case? TY
Had a great uncle who was questioned in the BD murder. Probably because he worked as a bartender in a club downtown where she was last seen and lived just a minute or two drive from where the body was found. He also disappeared during the 1920s and reappeared later using a different name that he continued to use for the rest of his life. Never told anyone why he had disappeared and changed his name. However he didn't do BD in my opinion because he was too much of a goof ball ha
Things that never happened for $1,000
This is such an.intriguing case. We look forward to what else you have in store for us.
Who tf is “we”
One of the past cases that I imagine having a time travel machine to find the truth on the slain Elizabeth.
I had read books and seen docs suggesting her killer was a former surgeon Hodel with many celebrity connection and a penchant for S&M. As well I heard the son of that man knew about her murder as a young child and came forward a few decades later. Steven Hodel, is a police detective with the L.A.P.D. and he investigated his own father.
Good on the son for trying to figure out what happened and especially if his own father did it, a lot of police would hide that family history. Thanks for the information.
@iain banks I know I would be deeply ashamed if my dad committed the most heinous, unsolved murder in Los Angeles history!!
@@rucianapollard7098 Oh, Steve Hodel has no shame about claiming his father killed three little girls in Los Angeles, one little girl in San Diego, and one little girl in Chicago as well. He hasn't got any of those city police departments to compare his father's DNA with any of those notorious crimes which were mostly solved anyway.
Hodel's ashes were even spread on the anniversary of the Marquis de Sade's own birthday. He fancied de Sade. Shivers. This is on Steve's website he wrote it in a comment I believe.
The Hodel theorem is completely blown out of the water. The author of this video fails to mention that the initial start of the quest, the photo album, has been identified as two ladies that have no connection to the Black Dahlia. So it is moot to base your entire case on a photo when it is not even related. Also, the cutting of the body required extreme precision, but this technique was not in vogue till the early 40s -- well after Dr. Hodel graduated. Also, Dr. Hodel had a practice in VD. He was not a surgeon.
The other theory from Larry Harnisch seems very unlikely. l cannot see any motive strong enough to do this sort of thing. lt is speculation, albeit, the most credible. Some extreme coincidences, but no proof.
l feel the suspect has not been identified.
Those photos don't even look like Elizabeth - or like each other.
Do all young dark haired women from around that time look the same to Hoedel's son?😕
One of the women has been identified, the other remains unknown. The woman who's photo has now been identified does not look like Elizabeth Short, the other woman does and it is a disturbing photo whether she is or isn't. Experts don't agree - some think it does look like her, others don't or say they can't tell. Hodel learned surgery during his medical education, but no, he was not a practising surgeon.
Hodel's book about his father was thoroughly convincing.
It had to be the surgeon. Based on evidence of surgical
Cuts and desanguation .
Many people believe The Black Dahlia was killed by The Mad Butcher of Kingsbury Run but his signature was beheading people while they were still alive and Short wasn't decapitated.
Hodel's book was chilling and I haven't read a stronger thesis on the case.
I believe it was Hodel. There are so many unsolved murders within that area, it is unbelievable. I do not know with all those in persuit that the killer got away.
Hodel in my opinion
Great video! Thanks for posting it.
Possibly Bayley, Hodel has been definitely debunked. Didn't help that his son started blaming him for almost any murder he'd ever heard of. Daddy issues, bigtime.
Exactly, the photos he has found are clearly not Elizabeth… like obviously not her. He has linked his dad to a Chicago murder,the zodiac killings and more. Also I’m gonna be honest am skeptical of anyone who worked with LAPD!!!
I read Hodel's book and was totally convinced that his dad, George Hodel, killed Elizabeth Short, even though the pictures in his book were clearly not Elizabeth. After he wrote a book claiming that his dad was the Zodiac, he totally lost credibility with me!! Still, I think he was on the right track with his father and Fred Sexton.
It wasn't debunked. I believe Hodel did this.
When/how was it debunked? I never saw anything about that. Just curious
@@justineharper3346 Larry Harnisch's theory about Bayley may also not be accurate, but he's also never claimed he's sure it is. One thing he does do very well (amongst others) is debunk erroneous claims about Elizabeth Short and the details of the case. He is genuinely rigorous in his research on these fronts. Hoedel's son, alas, has proven pretty far from that 😕
From all I have read, I believe Hodel is the killer.
Your content is unreal! I love it!
Just the trees, Johnny - just the trees.
On one hand, Hodel moved to the Philippines and there was a similar murder there. But the Bayley possibility is large too. There is actual connection there with Elizabeth. None with Hodel. I also wonder if it could have been the same who did the Cleveland Torso murders.
Writer James Ellroy's mother was also an unsolved murder case I've often thought that maybe the two cases were connected
Elroy said on 48 Hours that he digs that this monster could've destroyed Short and get solved by his OWN POLICE DETECTIVE Son, Steve. I dig it, too. There's so much crazy evidence online to make me believe it is George Hill hodel
And I'm sorry to hear this about James elroy 😮😢😢😢❤ I hope he has healing. Maybe that's why he went into crime writing
I hate to state the obvious but this killer is a deranged person. This was not a one off crime crime or some trivial killing... this was extremely brutal with ritualistic traits like the cuts on the face and the drainage of blood. The killer took his time and enjoyed every minute of it. There was no reason besides his pleasure. He even took pleasure in taunting the police later on.
Most of the suspects (apart from the final 2) seem like ordinary guys, maybe capable of killing someone in a fit of rage or with some more mundane purpose in mind but not like this, not for the thrill and pleasure of it and with this brutality.
I believe this killer either killed before or afterwards also in a very sadistic way, maybe not in LA or even in the US. It has to be someone with behavior issues, even if not at the surface. It could be that doctor that died right after Elisabeth Short and maybe his death prevented him from committing more crimes...
I don't know and, unless some DNA proof pops up, we'll never know for sure.
Very good points. This person would have had to have a place and time to keep her for the suspected week it is believed she was tortured and ultimately killed. Which means this person either didn’t have a home life /routine to participate in, was missing from their routine and no one ever came forward or somehow was able to continue in with life as normal while having Elizabeth restrained out of sight and out of ear shot and periodically going to torture her bits at a time in the pockets of their days until she ultimately died. The last one seems far fetched to me but I suppose it’s still a possibility. This person would have to have a way of keeping Elizabeth quiet or be in a location where there was no one to hear Elizabeth scream. It seems odd that LAPD never seem to ask the public to come forward they noticed a man in their life as missing from home,work or changes in daily habits/patterns who could be placed in that area during the week Elizabeth was missing. Had that question been posed then,there may have been more initial leads.
@@basic_CeceRae the thing that stands out to me the most is the effort and commitment needed to murder someone this way. The murderer had to have some place and the time to keep her a couple of days at least. He probably had to drain a great part of her blood while she was still alive because once the heart stops it’s much more difficult to drain the blood. The torture, the beating, the cutting and the bisecting, which is something very difficult to perform... then dumping her like that, in that pose. Then taunting the police a few days later. An extreme masochist, narcissist psychopath with a great deal of hate towards women. It’s almost impossible that this is his only crime (I’d bet it’s not even his first). Nobody does something like this and returns to his normal life never to kill again. Unless he died...
I definitely think this guy had killed before, but nothing like the Dahlia. This was his "masterpiece!" He wanted to shock people and he definitely did!! Like an artist, he took time and patience with his "creation" and as you said, he enjoyed every moment of it!! I wouldn't be at all surprised if he took pictures of Elizabeth in different stages of torture for his "trophies." I am guessing that he had some sort of basement or lower level to keep her for days and somewhere that her screaming would not be heard!! My question has always been motive. Why such brutality and why Elizabeth??
@@basic_CeceRae Great points! If indeed George Hodel is the killer, he certainly had the skills to commit this heinous crime!! He also had a location to murder Elizabeth and not be detected: his massive home! There was a basement there that apparently he was only allowed to use. He didn't have to change his daily routine if Elizabeth was in his basement. George Hodel certainly had the S&M behavior to drive him to murder someone in this manner. But my question has always been his motive. Why such a ghoulish murder and why Elizabeth?? What could she have done to incite the tremendous amount of rage that the killer had to murder her like that??
@@rucianapollard7098 I think he chose Elizabeth because she was an attractive, rather defenseless target. She moved around the same zones during her last months, probably they crossed paths at some point. I'd bet he even met her before, maybe dinner or something just to get her to lower her defenses later.
Maybe she reminded him of someone or maybe her demeanour triggered something, maybe it was just opportunity or maybe all of the above... I don't know but once he captured her and had her just for himself in some isolated location, he went all in.
Reminds me of Jack the Ripper last kill. Because he had the time he went completely insane with Mary Kelly.
Sad case. She lived a life where she got exposed to people like Hodel. He seems like the most likely killer.
For a newby, yes. Keep reading many other sources about the case. George Hodel was not a good man, not someone you would want to have known, but he was almost certainly _not_ the murderer of Elizabeth Short.
Seems like there’s more than one killer, such a crazy case
Elizabeth's murder doesn't seem like something that 2 people would do together. This was a one-man show!!
Why do you think that??
Definitely HODEL!! Evil incarnate-poor Elisabeth 😢
Hodel lived in a Lloyd Wright house, not Frank Lloyd Wright. It’s his son, very easy mixup!
It's obvious it was somebody she knew
I think it was hodel: the guy flies away to the Philippines in the 1950s although he was wealthy and well-settled in the USA amd the Philippines was really like a village compared to the USA. Also: look it up while he was in the Philippines there were 2 or 3 young Filipina women who were found brutally murdered in similar fashion to the Black Dhalia. He returned to the USA in the 1970s. All v weird indeed.
I understand that Kirk Douglas was questioned in relation to this murder, as well as the murder of another young woman who’s name escapes me…
Kirk Douglas was not questioned for the Dahlia murder. He was questioned about the Jean Spangler disappearance. Her body was never found. Her puse was found in a park, and it contained a letter addressed to "Kirk" but no last name.
George Hodel
Absurd crime. Signs of someone who knew they’d get away with it from the start (mob) or some inside or upper social status. The sexual sadist part is nearly secondary not the motive, more like a middle finger knowing they’d not be identified.
What fascinates me apart from the murder is the backdrop of la at the time
LA was a dangerous and scary place at that time!
Dr Hodel,ask his son
I think Hodel had the means to dispose of the body in a more professional way. So I think it was Bailly.
Film noir in real life.
I can imagine the Dr. Bailey scenario especially once Elizabeth started her lying for sympathy routine.
I must have missed something, what "lying for sympathy routine??"
@@rucianapollard7098 it was stated that she would, at times, tell ppl that her young son was killed to get someone to buy her a drink [and maybe acquire an apartment-I wasn't listening 100]
Elizabeth would say her son died and Dr. Bayley actually did lose a son.
If he is not convicted on earth will be after death ?!🤔
The Bible says that when we die, all of our sins are acquitted. So, no. The wages sins pay is death.
I hope ‘be’ isn’t convicted, he had absolutely nothing to do with it.
I think it was Hodel
I hope they can find a resolution finally to this crime!! Maybe she will have justice!;
IT'S CALLED LOS ANGELES NOT LOS ANGELEES.
Well they probably stomped on a lot of evidence with there big ass feet
Hodel 😊
Hodel
Ritualistic Hollywood.. it’s worse now
It was Ted Cruz.
Ha Ha!
Meh. I don’t believe the Hodel theory. I mean anything is possible, but… hard no in my opinion. She ran into a nut. I’m not convinced by his “picture” of her. Nor his “evidence”.
I'm an artist with particular training in portraiture, and the woman in that photo has completely different bone structure than Elizabeth Short. There's a superficial resemblance in colouring and hairstyle, but that's all there is.
@@neuralmute It was NOT Hodel. The video says Hodel, so everyone thinks it's Hodel, LOL!😂
I don’t like this theory as well. Bad reputation and occupation as a surgeon is not enough! And they keep bringing up the picture. But it is painfully obvious it isn’t Elizabeth!
@@zandorvorkov986 to be fair it COULD have been hodel but probably wasnt, it could have been anybody else as well but we will probably never know
I always hypothesized that it was the Cleveland Torso Slayer who decided to move west but there's no physical evidence to prove that. Just a potential suspect among hundreds.
Some think that George Hodel may have been the Cleveland Torso Slayer as well as the Dahlia killer.
I always kind of thought that,but that was until I started to read about the Whole Aliester Crowley,Jack Parsons the rocket guy and L Ron Hubbard were all into sum Freaky shit,Witchcraft, Ritual,s Sex Magic,Devil worship,Opening portals to other dimensions, Human sacrifice, All the Shit they do in the Movies,I don't know,I'm Shocked nobody thinks of them three characters, Crowley was too old and near death,But the other two were both into sum weird ass shit,He'll human sacrifice is kids stuff compared to what theses guys were into,That's the whole philosophy in the world now,Crowley said do as thou Willt,Basically Screw everyone sex drugs and rock and roll(One of those things hadnt been invented yet) But you get your he point,Drugs are legal people have no shame with sex,The Deviants and Scientoligist, and all there Hollywood freaks,I wouldn't be surprised if Henry Fonda,Clark Gable,Jimmy Stewart and Laurence Olivier probably chopped the Black Cables up at a Hollywood Party(Does anyone know where old Walt Disney was back then cuz he was pretty weird too,or Howard Hughes lol,But Seriously Parsons and L Ron Hubbard,I'd look into that,They were right there in 1947 and into sum weird Shit!!!
@Donald Murphy Donald, my man, I think you may be reaching a little bit!! I don't know much about L. Ron Hubbard, but I am familiar with him, but not so much the other men. I'm not a believer in witchcraft and magic, it sounds like a bunch of fiction to me, but I don't disrespect people who do believe in it. I have heard about the wild Hollywood parties back in the day, but I am extremely doubtful that Gable, Fonda, Olivier, Stewart,and others killed Elizabeth Short at a party!! If they did, we would know by now, because it's no way that many people could keep a big secret like that!! I think it's interesting that you didn't mention the film director, John Huston. Talk about being into freaky stuff!! Huston was great friends with artist and surrealist, Mann Ray. Ray was a pedophile and sexual deviate! He and Huston attended wild sex parties at the home of Dr. George Hodel! We already know that Hodel was a sexual deviate because he had sex with his 14 year old daughter, and he allowed his friend, Fred Sexton, to sleep with her also!! Since Huston and Ray attended these parties, it's very likely that they, too, had sex with underage girls!! So I still believe that the most likely suspect in the murder is Dr. George Hodel!
I wish people would leave her alone. Whomever killed her is long gone and has answered to God and probably in hell now. Let her go.
No discussion of the letters written by the killer soaked in gasoline sent to journalists and police
I think most of the case files for Elizabeth Short are missing or lost. Some of the police investigators who worked on the case over the years took paperwork from the case file home after they retired. After their death, I'm sure family members either threw them away or stored them in an attic.
Have read the book authored by Steve Hodel several times over the years. He makes a pretty convincing argument that his father George Hodel was the murderer.
Any single book which is halfway well-argued will be convincing to someone unfamiliar with other sources. Amazon is saturated with reviews of works about unsolved crimes or historical mysteries whose contents were "highly compelling" to naive reviewers who knew little else about the subject, but were dismissed by genuine experts who knew all the reasons why the authors conclusions were simply unsupportable. The same applies to countless YT videos or tv "documentaries" definitively "proving" the identity of Jack the Ripper, the "actual" Lindbergh baby kidnapper, the Zodiac, D B Cooper, the "real assassins" of JFK/RFK/MLK etc, which prompt knowleageable students of each case to roll their eyes & compulsively act out the "head banging against brick wall" emoji to the point of serious injury. Thats why one must consult several different sources holding divergent opinions & analytic skills about the matter before forming tentative judgments about the reliability of any single one. Here, for example, is a brief but damning critique of Steve Hodels indictment of his father as The BD killer, which is reinforced by more in-depth analyses online. These also must be approached with skepticism; the point is simply that the case is not as cut-and-dried as might initially appear to a newcomer: ladailymirror.com/2018/12/23/black-dahlia-george-hodel-didnt-kill-elizabeth-short-part6/#:~:text=Previously%3A,not%20guilty%20of%20morals%20charges.
I think it was George Hodel. That’s the doctor that treated venereal disease of a lot of women in LA. He’s the one that had the secret room in the huge weird mansion. His photographer had pictures and the black dahlia’s body was positioned like one of them with her arms up and that big smile was resembling a big mouth with a line through it that the photographer had painted or took a picture of.
The actual photos can be googled.. but you need a strong stomach. Ive seen them , and it only makes her murder more senseless and mind blowing….
I saw them over 10 years ago, and I had nightmares for weeks!!
What upset me , was the insensitive of the killer .To make some named Short even shorter is completely out of order.
Not funny.
My big brother says crazy stuff like that.
@@johneeeemarry34get a life for god sake
I believe Steve Hodel...he initially began his investigation to *clear* his father's name...but was horrified at what he found.
And many researchers who have fact-checked Steve Hodels claims have been horrified by what they found concerning his proclivities for omission, distortion and fabrication. But you should ignore my random unsupported statements here and consult genuine experts on the case -- thats the whole point of my comments.
Until proven otherwise I'll always think it's Hodel. Only someone with advanced medical training could have dismembered her like that.
Hodel and Elizabeth had relations. One night he tried to call it off with her and she snapped and attacked Hodel. Hodel accidentally killed her in retaliation. Then to make it look like a depraved maniac had done it, he used his superior intellect and cut her all up, drained the blood from her body, and dumped her body in a very public place where he knew it would be found. He knew his high standing as a surgeon would protect him. And after he committed this crime he realized he liked killing women and continued to do so as his son later discovered. Hodel knew he was smarter than the police and enjoyed playing them for fools.
Hodel wasn’t a surgeon. His son is a wack job, who claims he’s dad killed everyone...
Almost none of this fits with the known facts, but m'kay.
Guys, I love your videos, but, why do you keep showing the same stock photo of a garbage dump with the couch?
You have no other picture you can use?
Hi Rick, thanks for the feedback. It's not stock footage, it's actually filmed outside my studio. We tried to make a crime scene as a background thing to use on all our videos. But we will try to make a better one for future videos 💪
Hodel is not to be believed! Dude is trippin without acid!
Well, I somewhat would agree with you.
Hodel had my attention...until he tried to assert that his father was also the Zodiac Killer. Then he lost credibility.
From the two men ,I think Walter Bailey was the one who did the murder. She was placed so she would be found and it was near his home.
The Glasgow smile was a clue but the police at the time was overwhelmed because the murder got to much press. The killer or killers got away. Someone's family members will confess that their relative comitted the crime. Manly was the last person that saw her alive and he past the polygraph test. They have suspects but no smoking guns.
If lying about a dead son, then meeting someone that it happened to, man.
It was the doctor. His own son did a documentary on it.
Sherlock was a fictional character, Doyle the author was a Dr… What proof to you have that your a respected professional?
@@johneeeemarry34 The gibberish they've been writing elsewhere on here, obviously 😕
I have no idea of who the murder might of been. A good circumstantial case could be made against any of these characters. Unless a confession was left behind that can be substantiated the mystery remains.......
YES!!! IT'S THE ONES WHO WERE NOT BORN YOU HAVE TO WATCH FOR. MY WIFE KILLED THE BLACK DAHLIA. HER ONLY DEFENSE WAS THAT SHE WASN'T BORN BACK THEN. I KNOW HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS. I TOLD HER SOLEMNLY, 'HON, THAT'S WHY YOUR GOIN' DOWN. IF YOU WERE NOT ALIVE BACK THEN, YOU CAN'T PROVE YOU WERE ANY WHERE ELSE WHEN THE CRIME WAS COMMITTED. SORRY, BABE.'
Love it!!
The main suspect is Arnold Smith AKA Jack Anderson Wilson, in John Gilmore's Severed, Smith gives a full detail on what the killer did with her and to her. Some of details he mentioned were only known to the coroner and the police and off course the killer. But how did Smith know all those details. According to Smith, she was taken to a house near San Pedro by her killer, then spent a day with him in the upstairs room, the next day she wanted to leave as usual to make a call as she was always on the move. The killer didn't allow her to leave the house, she asked him if she was his prisoner of some sort and he snorted back that she is. He was upset with her and clearly irritated that she wanted to leave again. So as she went to the stairs of the house he pulled her back to the bedroom and threw her on the floor and hit her head repeatedly, he went back down the stairs and through the back door brought in two knifes, a pairing knife and a butcher knife. Just a two inche blade. Got a clothesline rope. He then got back up and she was still on the floor with the back of her dress lifted up. He then lifted her to the couch metal frame and tied her arms to the frame and then slit her face across, she bled to death at that moment. Before slitting her he cut up her clothes and her black underwear and pushed her underwear in her mouth before slitting her face, so that the blood won't go down her throat. She died with shock due to the laceration on the face. There was blood all over the couch, he then went back down stairs and got 4 boards and there was some cement work being done at the rear entrance, he had to either walk through the cement and get his shoes dirty or he had to take the other way around to get to the boards. He went the other way around and went back into the house with the boards, placed them above the bath tub. Then took her inside the bathroom and placed her on the boards, tied her upper part of the body to the faucet and the lower to the commod pipe so the body stretched and then he cut her into two at the waist and stomach. He then removed the boards from under her and let the two parts hang from the ropes and drained her blood out completely. Later he went back down got the cement bags. Then removed all her clothes that he cut up all the bed with blood and the mop, the broom and threw them all into the incinerator. Then wrapped both the parts and made his way to 39th and Norton. He left back the cement bags because he was trying to get her ankle of the side walk. And then rushed back into the car and left.
Smith's explaining what had happened with the condition of how the body is. Everything matches correctly. Her lower part a little up, due to the way the board was pulled out from under her and the upper part was left hanging from the faucet to be drained out. Everything is correct.
It’s hard not to talk about the Hodel theory without revealing my contempt, but … honestly, it is so stupid, and it’s impossible to come up with a less dismissive adjective. I was dubious of the theory to begin with, but then his son started accusing him of a variety of unrelated high-profile murders he clearly didn’t commit because …? I guess he found a cash cow and wanted to keep milking it? Then he has Elizabeth Short running around Chicago like some sort of Trixie Belden character. He cites a photo that has conclusively been shown NOT to be Elizabeth Short as evidence that his father knew her. And the Man Ray connection is beyond silly. I don’t know how anyone could take it seriously. The one bit of evidence that seems persuasive is the recordings that were done by police when they bugged his house … and then you read transcripts of what was actually recorded and realize there’s nothing there that can be used in a prosecution against him. Investigators had the recordings for decades, and yet no charges were brought against him because a guy saying “supposin’ I did kill the Black Dahlia” while he knows police are listening and wants to mess with them is not a credible confession. Whatever merit his son’s theory had was quickly undermined when he started accusing him of popping back into the country periodically just to commit murders. Wow, you mean all those Zodiac Killer theories can be dismissed because it was George Hodel?!?! Wowser. George Hodel killed the aliens at Roswell, too, I’m sure. I guess his son figured that since his father was a suspect in the Elizabeth Short case, he could use that to subsidize his retirement. This theory can be put to bed. Dr. Hodel did not kill Elizabeth Short.
That movie was crazy
Funny, you could have pronounced Hodel correctly. You missed sooooo much with that one.
Hodel all the way. The man did it.
Norman Chandler, that name came outta left field 😳
Isn't George Hodel's last name pronounced "Hode-el" and not "Hodle" as in Yodel?
Robert Manley and Red Manley are the same man. "Red" was his nickname.
I heard a story from a woman. She went fishing when she was a little girl with her father ,a detective, with his friend, also a detective. They spoke about they were 100% sure that the killer was Leslie Dillon. I mean it could be just an opinion. I don't think there is any strong evidence against him. However,even though police officers then suffered from tunnel vision, 100% seems rather certain
on another show said she was alive when she was cut up and her sex organ wasn't fully developed and couldn't have sex and that she was called a sex tease. leaving her body out to be found suggest the killer has murdered many times and this was his throw down glove to the police to try to catch him.
the sex organ thing was a lie that Will Fowler, a reporter, came up with to sell the story more
Hodel did it, no question
Any monster who would repeatedly r@pe his own daughter (Tamar) could do anything. Being a doctor made him feel untouchable.
No question, Hodel.
I don't think it was Hodel and the picture that is frequently shown that was supposedly Betty Short doesn't look like her at all - the picture that belonged to Hodel sr. that Hodel jr. used to blame his dad for the murder. I think we are missing way too many possible suspects to ever know now who killed her. Who knows who was in that hotel where she was dropped off?
Bayley seems the top suspect. The murder had to be the work of someone seriously deranged and it sounds as if his medical condition was taking him that way.
I think that the fact that the murderer successfully covered his traces and was able to perform a very complex ritual after death points less to a medical condition. Hodel was a freak, he clearly has a life long track record of not being able to control his sexual urges (see professor's wife), I think he did this for sexual gratification and in cold blood.
Apparently a cop thinks his father( a top surgeon did it),he was a strange man.
I think you’re talking about Steven Hodel whose father was George Hodel
I'm always suspicious of people who accuse their parents of high profile crimes. They seem to be taking out their resentment over childhood abuse by telling the world that their parent was a monster, and making the story more attention-worthy by using a headline grabbing crime to underscore just how awful their parent was. I don't doubt that George Hodel was a terrible, abusive parent, but I don't think he killed Elizabeth Short.
Dr. Hodel was not a top surgeon. He ran a public VD clinic for the City of Los Angeles. What top surgeries do you think were needed by a public health doctor?
@@spinsandneedleshe did abortions for highly placed people
@@spinsandneedles Hodel learned surgery in medical school, especially the procedure used on Elizabeth Short.
I share her Birthday 😢
why was she cut in half?
by answering that question correctly, the murderer is obvious.
the woman was pregnant.
the person who impregnated her isnt the killer.
that mans matrimonial (barren) partner is.
#act_of_jealousy
#act_of_rage
Interesting take, but it could be also to simply move the body.
Act of hash tag.
You are crazy, Andrew!
i think it`s weird(?) all the gruesome stuff what was done to victim so it wasn`t just "plane murder" .....it`s like work of serialkiller or total madman?? 🤔
Sadistic maniac!!