Why Gareth Southgate's England Don't Look Very Good
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
- England slipped up in their European Championship qualifying with a 1-1 draw against Ukraine, increasing the criticism of Gareth Southgate's tactics and selection.
But what's the actual cause of his side's underwhelming performances, and are they even underwhelming at all.
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Ward Prouse could do that Henderson role and also add elite set pieces to the table
@@bizarresportynerd6136 henderson is also not a 6
@@bizarresportynerd6136Even though he's covered more distance last season, and in other seasons?
Southgate is a dumbass for overlooking Ward Prowse. With all the height and physicality we have, plus the way we exploited it in the last two world cups, Ward Prowse should be a natural fit.
@@iwantgoals1566 Exactly Ward Prowse and Trent would be overkill especially against teams that foul a lot
@@peach-tea good point happily deleting the comment 😂
Butt I wouldn’t play JWP just because he’s good at Fks we have a lot of other technical players.
Wow! My respect for you has gone up after this video. Really gave me a new perspective for looking at international football. I was seeing so many RUclipsrs asking for Southgates head, but you gave him a fair trial.
I guess, I have always imagined international dominance through the lens of Spain 08-12. But, that was only possible because of La Masia, and not to be expected from other countries.
even then spain in their dominance didn't score buckets of goals, but they always did enough to win
That was not because of La Masia. La Masia existed before. That was the perfect conjunction of a good branch of players from Barcelona, Real Madrid (Alonso, Casillas , others) and a great coach (ARAGONES, Del Bosque) and a good administration. All of them are important together
@@nananou1687 Great point. You already had two fine club sides and players who knew each other's game thoroughly, and could thus translate that to the international team, if well handled. It's rare now for the very top club sides to be largely composed of players from one country.
we wont win the euros,southgate will fail at the final hurdle.he has 2 times and he will again
I am danish I am always shocked every time I see england play. It boggles the mind how a team of such good players can be so unimpressive on the pitch. (granted I have not watched all their games). Everything is so slow and safe. Everytime I hear people defend the current england national team they highlight that they have come far in the world cup and the euros, but a lot of what got you through was these scrapy wins playing against worse teams. Stones, Walker, Foden, Saka, Bellingham, Kane, sometimes also Rashford are all world class or at least close to. This team should be great, but they play the most lethargic football just hoping for a goal with very little tactical finesse or energy to help them get there.
I get that England fans are dealing with the trauma of having watched previous england sides, and just being happy that the team has a certain feel good factor, but honestly this team could be sooo much better and England need to realize they dont have to settle for crap football imo :)
But what’s the reference for this England team? Which previous England teams are you comparing them to? It’s not like England has ever had a tradition of dazzling football that Southgate is somehow now betraying.
I think some fans are looking at this as ‘with those players England should be playing like Spain or the Netherlands etc,’ but that’s not the history of England, it’s just not in the dna of the national team(s). Keegan tried dazzling football and we got knocked out in the group stage. The 1966 or 1970 teams (2 of England’s greatest teams ) didn’t exactly dazzle the world. England at their best always play safe, pragmatic, grind the opponent until moments arrive for them to exploit.
Another thing: England has good players, not world class players as much as some England fans like to believe. Harry Kane is our only truly world class player. Foden, Saka, Bellingham are kids whose brains have yet to mature let alone their abilities.
Southgate is no tactical genius but he’s a good tournament manager and that is not insignificant.
If denmark reached the european final and lost on penalties, the nation would welcome their players back as heroes. Treat them with respect. Encourage them to try again.
When england lost the euro's to italy on penalties the media was abput everything we did wrong. Social media was people attacking the players.
That is why england are bad. That and the fact that we are a small nation population-wise which is involved in many sports at a high level.
Too much expectation, not enough humility, and far too negative.
Seen this vicious cycle happen since the 90's, and it has probably been going on far longer than that.
England could have the best 11 players in the world and we would not win the world cup. The media and fans don't have their back, the players wouldn't have that belief, and they would play with a fear of failure rather than a desire to win and the determination to fight.
@@Karma2Babylonbellingham is world class
@@thesilversnivy Bellingham is good, Modric is world class. A few years from now Bellingham could be as good as Juan Riquelme.
@@turbo8628 once upon a time the negativity used to get stirred up by the tabloids, now it’s social media.
My issue was - after 15 20 minutes of the 2nd Half it was obvious things weren't working against a strong defense. As you say Southgate 'struggles to impact games' and there was no change to our style of play to make things happen. Remember Pep was hailed as a genius just for making his CMs go wide to avoid the busy Inter midfield to win the Champs League.
And its exactly this lack of simple (or complex) changes to make big effects that Southgate is incapable of.
And thats the answer to your BIG QUESTION (which you answer yourself before you ask it)
A.Marginal marginal differences
Q. Why are England so bad?
1. He clearly has the tactical intelligence to stop good players on other teams (arguably more important in tournament football).
2. He is excellent at most other aspects of the England job (player management, loved by the country etc.).
3. There’s not a wealth of options for managers to take over the England job. The negativity of the English press probably having a lot to do with that.
@@robwalters2537 Exactly, the England job is often a poisoned chalice. Not only the press, but many fans are also negative about most England managers. Even the ones who in history are seen as relatively successful were criticised at the time; Bobby Robson, Terry Venables and yes Sir Alf Ramsey. Their teams also put in ropy performances in some games. As indeed do most World Cup and Euro winning teams, usually in the groups stages. And Southgate's player management of a largely young team has been excellent, he has clearly inspired them and got their trust.
you are right-southgate is wooden and cant think his way out of problems,despite us having a 1 BILLIONe squad.
It all stems from Southgate's caution. Maguire looks good statistically, because more often than not, England are up against opposition content to sit back and let England inanely pass it between the back 4. The only reason why there's the mythical understanding between him and the other two is because Southgate picks him come what may because he's the safe pick. Who's to say England wouldn't look better with a different CB, especially since there are 3 that could do as good a job and offer better more incisive passing than Maguire.
Southgate was found out vs Italy in the final, vs Croatia in Russia Semi, vs France in Qatar. All games where when pressed and having to deal with opponents capable to play and offer consistent pressure and danger. Southgate has no answers other than play it safe, keep hold of what we have (in case against Italy). He's not good enough tactically to make the right changes and calls for must win games vs good opposition. His competency ceases after the group stages of a tournament.
I definitely agree with your point that "this is what dominance looks like". Everyone thinks the World Cup winner will be someone who plays beautiful scintillating unstoppable football, but almost EVERY SINGLE team that wins a major tournament will do it by being boring 90% of the time and only needing to be brilliant in that 10% of key moments to squeeze through. Even the dominant Spanish team of 2012, let's be honest this also wasn't a team that played swashbuckling attacking football, but would pass the ball around their own half for 80 minutes before squeezing out 1 goal wins. Yes the passing shapes were intricate and beautiful, but they weren't smashing the goal mercilessly either like people seem to expect from "dominant football teams". Even Brazil 2002, widely remembered as being one of the last truly beautiful jogo bonito sides at the top international level, needed two workhorse midfielders and three solid central defenders as a solid base to allow their attacking trio to flourish, even going up to 5 defenders if Roberto Carlos and Cafu dropped back to defend. Their final against Germany was nothing incredibly dominant or beautiful either, with Kahn making a crucial fumble that would give Brazil the lead, and in matches like these, having the lead is massive psychologically.
Sneaking past big opposition 1 or 2-0 I can understand. But teams like Ukraine we should be putting to the sword and with so much fire power there's no reason not to. All I've seen from Southgate in an inability to adapt or make any brave decisions and then make bizarre decisions when trying to adapt.
Stop yapping
So you also got distracted and missed the tactical issue? The basic problem was Kane Bellingham and Maddison were playing in the same space. If Rashford was wide left and Maddison in where Henderson was they’d have 2 players stretching the play high and wide and allowing the other 3 to rotate and create. You could argue many teams are playing conservative football as they only play knockout tournaments at the end then fine but in qualifiers they should try to build a team who can play to win.
England always tries to squeeze in the stars into the team sacrificing shape, skills needed to win. Beckham, Lampart, Gerrard, Scholes in the same midfield being the best examples.
like who?maguire😂😂😂the stars
The whole complaint around Southgate is the fact he isn't squeezing in stars like Foden
@@bna919 And the point is that he isn't, so England are better balanced and have got better results under Southgate than for most of the previous 50 years. Plenty of memories of the "stars" struggling against teams like Trinidad, Ecuador, Slovenia ... to say nothing of Iceland ...
@@iankemp1131 And the point is that he is overcompromising and playing it safe to the point where we can't break down teams like Ukraine at the moment (no disrespect to them)
From 6:35 your saying Henderson will act as a Counter-Balance as Bellingham pushes forward but actually throughout the game Henderson and Bellingham both played forward as Right CAM and Left CAM. Which is why everyone is wondering why not just play a No.10 there (like Madison and let Foden or Rashford play LW).
And don't tell us Henderson was better at covering back as, for their goal, he obviously wasn't.
Look at the match stats, the Ukraine had 2 shots to England's 11. England had 68% possession and they were trying the new switching tactic. The game wasn't that important and so was used to experiment, would you rather they experiment in the actual Euros?
Also, if Henderson is there as a counter balance to allow for the better player in Bellingham to strut his stuff, why was Jude subbed off and not Henderson?
England's management lacks the ruthlessness needed to win. Henderson and Maguire need binning because they are better more skillful players available. A proper manager would always put the team first, not themselves, not their favourites, the team always. Southgate thinks he can win a tournament without taking risk, that is what a middle manager thinks like. Leadership knows one has to maximise the strengths of team and take calculated risks to win.
You have to balance taking risks and not conceding goals. You already have a skilful ball player and distributor with John Stones, you don't need another one. Remember Alf Ramsey won the World Cup with Jack Charlton alongside Bobby Moore and when Jack asked "why am I in the team", Alf said "I pick the best team not the best players"
If it was up to you, which players would you put in an England Starting XI?
If Maguire and Henderson aren't good enough as you say, which players would you bring in to replace them?
"It just doesn't happen at international level"
SPAIN 2008-2012 disagree
Ah yes the Spain team that passed sideways for 90 minutes and won every knockout game 1-0 in 2010 WC
@@nickchivers9029 Euro 2012 they were incredibly dominant. they won the final 4-0
That Spanish team had the luxury of being built on 2 top club sides - Barcelona and Real Madrid - so the players knew each other's game thoroughly through training regularly with each other, not just for a couple of weeks. No top international side nowadays has that, and possibly never will again with club football having become so multinational.
Interesting to see a different point of view.
Ultimately, I don’t think it says much that southgate couldn’t influence the game (as we’ve seen time and time again). Fine that the system promotes defensive solidity but there’s a time to go for a goal and make use of your attacking superiority.
This video is spot on, thank you Adam! I've been saying this for years, international football is not the same as club football and expectations must be aligned with that. I am so pleased to see a video with a balanced view on the subject with common sense explanations. Excellent!
Indeed. The margins are very fine at the top level, and boring teams do quite well. France 2022 almost won, in spite of being nearly catatonic for the first 70 minutes of the final. France 2018 edged out a very good Belgium by (arguably) a lucky goal from a corner followed by a doggedly beautifully boring defensive game, and Belgium previously edged out a very good Brazilian side by the difference of a very lucky deflection during a corner. Germany 2014 was a superb example of pretty boring football, that edged out a very boring Argentina in extra time -- Argentine was boring in spite of Messi on their squad. Spain 2010 seems to be the anomaly, one that Spain has never come close to repeating.
@@ComradeOgilvy1984France and Argentina weren’t boring when they won
Why not try Angel Gomes who for U21's played a deep role to help the CDM but also carry and push the ball forward when required.
Best and most thoughtful analysis I’ve seen. I’m subscribing
!
You have got this so so perfectly right, Hitting the nail on the head, perfect explanation, Thank you. I just want to see Gareth Southgate do changes more active/reactive, & with more Pow!
Good to hear somebody talking sense. The bit about how other top nations are faring is so revealing.
I am not really a fan of England team, but the gist of the video is, both Jordan Henderson and Harry Maguire are playing because they are good at what they were doing, regardless of their club performance. What's on my mind is, with the Premier League being so successful, are we absolutely sure no one else can do what they did? I mean, based on analysis Jordan Henderson is playing because Jude Bellingham is there. So, there is no one else in England that compliment Bellingham? I mean in Real Madrid, they played him in a diamond with 2 French, and 1 Paraguayan. Are we absolutely sure, it is just Jordan Henderson and no one else that can do that role?
Another great show that just makes sense!!!
Another great video from my main man Adam Clery!
England have a larger pool of amazing footballers to drawn on. Few other nations are like this. This group has been playing together for several years, and many are on the same club team. This is truly the golden generation. They should be winning most games and winning handedly.
Love your videos. What's with the frame shot with you in a black hoodie at 2.15? Quite funny :)
U had some good points mate ! Well done ❤
Either JWP or TAA could have done the Henderson role and either would have had more to offer creatively or from set pieces.
Both Bellingham and Maddison were clearly uncomfortable from the start, both got yellow cards out of frustration, both could have been taken off earlier if Southgate had been more proactive, Grealish (or even better, the currently in form Stirling who wasn't even in the squad) for Maddison, Foden (not Gallagher) for Bellingham. If Bowen had been in the squad he would have made an ideal second half replacement for Saka,but failing that Eze would have been better than an out of position Foden.
If the team is shaped around including Bellingham and Maddison and they are all still unhappy and uncomfortable, drop them both and return to a formation that suits all the other players. That includes not relying upon players who are out of form. The 'team' should come first notnthe individuals.
I like you. Your perspective is appreciated.
Thanks for this video. At last some levity to penetrate through the noise.
Yes, the level of international football is lower than that of the EPL. And yes, good elite managers are much rarer in international football. But actual dominance and good football does exist in the international level. It's just a weird time right now where all the strong teams are going through transition and everybody is kind of shit. Portugal has been lackluster for a while, Germany has fallen incredibly in the past decade, only France has been "dominant" in recent years and they've slowly been falling off as well compared to a few years ago. England has not had a good manager that worked for the team in all the years I can remember. Management is still important, perhaps even more so in international games. That's actually why you're seeing "smaller" teams beating big ones, they're often tactical victories where they outplay "bigger" opponents.
So no, how the current England squad plays is NOT what a "dominant international team" looks like. It's what a great but slightly underachieving international side with a conservative, stubborn manager looks like.
Agreed with everything and it's comments like this that does make me realize that England is an overrated team.
@@marktheshark7588 England is highly overrated because they don't play to their strengths. They overcomprimise on safety which makes their attack lackluster on every level. There are no clear roles in the team either Kane is always dropping deep even when there are no runners beyond him
Under a great manager , England have the players to be able dominate at international level. But with Southgate I don’t see it
Club fotball is like going to concerts and listen to your favourite band live. The energy, vibe, nerve and excitement is there, unless the band is tired or having a bad day.
National fotball is like the overproduced records.. The songs are there, but the passion, energy, vibe, nerve and excitemend has been rehearsed, perfected, pitch corrected.. and compressed into a well presented package. But life asks for some raw chaos.. You know, the bedazzling danger and uncertainty, to keep it exciting!
Make room for the Gazza's of the world..!
Thanks for being a voice of reason
Great analysis of England and international football in general!
I see your point on picking players who deliver for the national team but you don't see Deschamps pick Umtiti or Thauvin anymore because they no longer play at the right level. Same for Lemar, Kanté(yes he was injured but now plays in KSA, so doesn't get picked), Nabil Fekir. He picks Disasi, Camavinga, and Todibo. He picks Kolo Muani who two seasons prior played in France's 3rd division.
As a national team you need to use the all the players at your disposal to see if you can get better results. If you keep doing the same thing and get the same people, you become predictable and fail. And while France does struggle at times, we do our job and have all 15 points in this campaign.
He still picks giroud
@@denty95298 Who bags goals for club and country, and plays week in week out. Your point being ?
Stones, Maguire and Pickford play well as a trio because they've been doing it so long, but not because Maguire is undroppable. He tends to play well for England, but there are many who would play better if given the chance.
Southgate is missing more and more chances to bed in a centre back with a higher skill level. Henderson is just doing what Rice does, and Rice doesn't need help, especially now with the experience he has.
Best youtube footy content. Nuanced takes. From a fellow toon supporter that doesn't have a geordie accent
A very interesting explanation in the defence of Maguire & Henderson being included in an England setup, and after considering your viewpoint on this and the international reasoning for their demise, I've got to admit you're probably right and the England squad needs to get together sooner instead of pandering to the money men.
This is very impressive, and brave enough to take on the prevailing opinion of what dominance looks like.
The prevailing opinion comes mainly from reactionary geniuses on social media.
Can you do a video on the best england line up?
The whole problem is not that Southgate has built the system around Bellingham, it’s that he still building it around Maguire. I’m sorry, a midfield 3 of eg Rice, Bellingham, Maddison is one of the most in-form in Europe, and you can play a mobile back four with that if you have more nous or confidence than Southgate. Clinging on to cloggers like Henderson, Maguire and Pickford is a hiding to nothing. Yes, have Henderson on the bench for managing games in the closing stages. Or Maguire if you need to throw on a 3rd centre back with backs to the wall. But Southgate should be pilloried for playing this football with this squad.
I'm not sure Pickford deserves to be in the same conversation as Henderson and Maguire. Arguments for Pope and Ramsdale are worth considering, but I don't think that selection impacts things quite as much as Maguire or Henderson.
Pickford is the only thing stopping Everton from falling to pieces, the double save last week against Sheffield in the dying minutes was incredible.
Why not use an actual lw instead of Madison
He was experimenting. Maddison is a great player, and if there is a way to get him in the squad, why not try
@@NotNibbelosplay him as an 8 and Foden on the wing
Fair point, the only exception is the Spain 2008 side that predominantly consist of Barcelona players 😅
So as a half Jock Geordie I understand your thinking!❤
I think the weird point you made towards the end about dominance looking like draws with Ukraine was really odd. You threw in so many excuses for Southgate, it was insane. Vincente Del Bosque sweeping numerous tournaments with Spain is what I call dominance. Germany winning the World Cup and destroying everyone with intense pressing football is what I call dominance. Brazil playing silky samba football and winning 5 world cups is what I call dominance. The way France smashed the 2018 World Cup is what I call dominance. Italy winning many tournaments is what I call dominance. Not stale draws with teams we’ve already slapped 4-0 before.
so winning = dominance for you.
Germany hasn‘t dominated most of the teams in 2014. they were even lucky not to lose to Algeria in the round of 16.
France was uninspiring in 2018. looking back at games like the belgium game… where was the dominance?
Spain won every single knockout game in 2010 by 1-0.
@@MrBobo2709 and Spain lost their opener to Switzerland 1-0 in the 2010 World Cup
The flipside is that England were good enough to beat a good team like Ukraine 4-0 in a previous match. You can't take it for granted, we have almost never done that kind of thing before in the last 50 odd years, not even when we won the World Cup. Like because Newcastle beat a good Villa team 5-1 in the first game of the season, you then complain if they don't win every game by that margin. One can say Brazil 58-70 and Spain 08-12 were exceptional.
Genuinely you’re right, international football is basically the nation team hating their football
Fair points. We still need a new manager/ Pep part time would win it for us with this team.
Imagine Ward Prowse on a dead ball for England, he starts for every ambitious nation.
great analysis
what i learned from this...
an uninspiring draw vs Ukraine? that's international dominance!
beating worse teams and losing to better teams at the 2018 World Cup? that's international dominance!
making the final of Euro 2020 (and losing), having played almost every fixture at home? that's international dominance!
Southgate isn't disliked for the results he's got. he's disliked because he's settled for uninspiring pragmatism at a time when, as you showed, a whole load of international teams are absolutely rubbish.
Southgate's England have always been beaten by better teams, yet we're supposed to be happy with more of the same - hoping that other teams get worse while we plod along?
i don't understand how anyone can defend such a blatant lack of ambition.
Much as you try, there will be no convincing some people
Okay, so:
Harry Maguire - you have a younger and a whole lot better option by the name of Levi Colwill right there. You can't call up a guy who refuses to go to a different club and play football, not even due to mentality concerns that should create but also because he will not be matchfit at all which makes him more prone to mistakes - if that's even possible to be even more prone to errors than Harry already is - and injuries.
Jordan Henderson - his call-up actually makes way more sense than Maguire's because he at least plays football so he is matchfit. Of course, he should also be replaced and the appropriate name to replace him is James Word-Prowse who is tearing it up in the Prem right now and is a very similar kind of player to Henderson and can be trusted with the defensive responsibilities as well.
As for the 'dominant England' - Brazil 1958-1970, Germany 1972-1980 or more up-to-date Spain 2008-2012 is what domination in international football looks like. No pragmatism, no small pee-pee complex, no mates-rates. And, funny enough, Spain achieved success thanks to exactly what England has now - a ton of super talented players from their domestic league playing a coherent, expansive system that showed all of their best attributes. Southgate and his defensive approach is exactly what STOPS England from becoming dominant and winning trophies.
EDIT:
I honestly did not expect that bombshell right at the end:
1st of all the standards for this national team are so low, oh my god. Even in Poland when we got to the 1/4-final at EURO 2016, although we were super happy, it was also very disappointing because we already saw us getting to the final and maybe giving it a solid shot. You lot got to the final of the Euros with the best squad you've had in the 21st century and bottled it and are happy with it? The bar cannot get lower, I believe. That's Harry Maguire masterclass right there.
Name me one of those exciting and ambitious managers that England had lately. Name me some of those exciting attacking players from the last, let's say, 20 years. You have THE best squad in the last 20 years maybe with the exception of the central defence and left back both in terms of pure quality and the attacking prowess, creativity and technical ability but those players are held down by the uninspiring, boring, out of touch, clueless manager.
Don't get me wrong, at the end of the day it's not my national team and in fact my national team has its own issues but god damn I am well and truelly baffled.
Place this in context... Southgate has an incredible generation of talent available and yet:
Plays Harry Maguire
Does not play Trent despite playing wing backs
Does not play any width, ever
Plays 34 year old Henderson in a double pivot
And has Smith-Rowe, Rashford, TAA, Grealish and Foden sat on the bench.
Picking a load of inside forwards and number 10s alongside a sweeper who can't play football doesn't make a tournament-winning side it just leaves a massively-congested middle of the park
Another excellent and insightful analysis. People forget that after years of seeing England teams disappoint and struggle against "inferior" opponents, that Southgate's teams cruise through qualification and get further in knockout stages than the "golden generation". It shows how picking Maguire and Henderson makes sense and that Southgate has a good plan. People used to call for Alf Ramsey's head in the runup to our World Cup win! Stones/Maguire is reminiscent of Moore/Jack Charlton; one ball-player, one header-winner. The good club teams now are dominant in a way they rarely were before as they can pick the best players from all countries and mould them together. Someone pointed out below that Spain's dominance in 08-12 was because they could build on the existing dominance of a fine Barcelona team that played together regularly.
And should we really be getting rid of Southgate? Look how far he has brought England after years of underachieving. The squad is young and still developing and he just gets a few weeks with them, but many knew him from the U21s which has helped. Would another manager really do better, or would cracks start to open up or confusion arise about which system to play with the wide range of possible options now available on both selection and shape? I was not a fan of Southgate's original appointment as I felt he had been underwhelming as a club manager. Happy to admit I was totally wrong. England teams used to struggle to beat weak teams in qualifying, let alone get to semi finals and finals of major competitions. I can remember Alf Ramsey getting criticised in similar ways.
You have to put this in context, England of WC2018/Euro2020/WC2022 beat no significant opponents except a severely decling German side (when they faced Belgium in the group stages of WC2018 they lost, then they lost to Belgium again in the 3rd place play off of the same tournament). Sweden, Colombia, Ukraine, Denmark, Senegal are the knock out teams Southgate has defeated. This is absolutely vital context when proclaiming Southgate has somehow brought back the greatness to England, when some would argue his inability to win any tournament so far is a massive underachievement with the talent availible and luck of the draws.
@Dragonaut111 we beat Croatia in the euro group stage who've done very well in the previous two world cups, weve beaten Italy away in the qualifiers for the first time in 40 years, we can't use the southgate only beats small teams argument when we couldnt do that from 2010 till 2016 in tournaments
@@Dragonaut111 A fair point, but you can only beat what's placed in front of you. We drew with Italy in the Euro final (though a more enterprising approach might possibly have won it). And considering years of underwhelming England performances I've sat through previously, the last few years feel so much better, particularly the passing and creativity. Fans still have this mentality that England should be winning tournaments, but we have no God-given right, and lots of other teams have equally good players.
Thanks Adam
I know he's LARPing as a striker for Real Madrid, but I liked Bellingham a lot more as an 8 for England. I had never seen him play prior to the World Cup, and I was seriously impressed with him. I'm fine with starting Maguire, but I can't understand starting Henderson over Foden. Maybe he's not as physically imposing as Henderson, but his technique is ridiculously good.
Yeah, it's insane Foden isn't one of the first names on the sheet.
Agree on Bellingham as the 8.
Ah this is why Four Four Two has long been the bread and butter of football journalism. I don't think it quite excuses Southgate's choices, since he is in a system that he refuses to adapt or explore at the expense of stubborn faith. But it does shed more light on the thinking process.
You didn't mention us probably because you just forgot but Tite's Brazil have received that same exact criticism since the 2018 WC loss to Belgium.
In fairness, England have bee terrible to watch since after Euro 96.
Such a piss poor take respectfully Adam, you’re saying you can’t drop these players but Southgate isn’t giving anybody else a chance to step up so how do you know that another player couldn’t do Maguires/Henderson’s job just as good or better, there are some fantastic players out there not getting a sniff because Southgate cba to experiment
No no. Maguire will be a law of diminishing returns. You need to bring someone else in. All the while Southgate picks him, he will have the belief that he can benchwarm for United and steal a living, getting rusty so by the time a major tournament comes along, he will get found out.
Bellingham can do Henderson's job and still break forward. He's clever enough. Have a different CB, you don't need to protect Maguire. Maddison or Foden can and should do the 10.
“Toochameni” you can tell when someone doesn't watch football outside of the EPL
“God bless Southgate, long may he reign” - every other home nation
Is there a good reason maguire still plays? Hard to get around some questions about players without merit in the squad
I'm not an England fan and I'm happy to see them lose, but it genuinely annoys me some of the decisions that Southgate has made. Starting players with low performance, minimum minutes outside of international football, not utilizing someone like Rashford or Grealish from the start above Maddison on the wing. I've also got to say, Maguire has performed quite good for England, but in this match he looked off. Not to mention the part where he almost marked Guehi in the box.
Absolute hell on when Scotland turn us over tomorrow and I’m here for it ngl
Great video, does bring a bit of perspective to the situation. I’ve always agreed with what you said about Maguire for England, as long as he performs for us then there’s no reason to drop him. And your point about Henderson’s covering role makes sense. But it would be nice to see a bit of experimentation for the future with Colwill, Tomori etc, maybe see how Rice gets on in a single pivot with a more attacking 8. Then again, there’s an alternate universe where he tries these things and we lose 3-1 so I suppose those experiments are probably best to try once we’ve qualified and in friendlies
🙄
I preferred the second half of the video to the first half. I feel like the fact Southgate hasn’t explored many options makes Maguire being the only proven person in that position quite a self fulfilling idea.
it's actually funny how people say he should experiment but get mad when he does. i still don't like him as a manager because he's not using the squad to its full potential.
Playing a retired midfielder doesn't help
Superb.
Instead of building the defence around maguire why not build it around stones? He should be playing the same position as at City stepping into midfield, that way you don’t need hendo. Shaw/Colwill can play the left sided centre back as they’ve both shown they can do.
This way you open yourself to getting Foden/Maddison into their best positions as an 8/10 where they play every week. Bellingham then still impacts the game in all areas.
Playing James Maddison out wide is such a waste, he's been amazing as an 8 for Spurs, dropping deep and building up play AND finishing attacks. He really isn't a winger
Four Four two has 442,000 subscribers now 😂
The fact that he never plays Foden tells me everything I need to know about Southgate. Pep has an excuse because he has arguably just as talented players on the squad so Foden is legitimately competing for playing time but in my eyes he's the most talented English player. There's a case for that to be made for Harry Kane or Bellingham. Tactics aside you've got to put your best foot forward and Southgate consistently makes questionable decisions regarding the squads he chooses to field. If you can't even do that, I'll never expect you to get your tactics right
There is an issue with Foden, that is he himself is not sure where he plays. Where is his most comfortable position. That is a challenge for a manager like Southgate, who is not innovative enough to use him.
You said you can't chuck Maguire or Henderson out, Why? Building a team around one player is readiculous.
I dont even understand how Maguire plays so bad for Man United. He used to be perfectly fine. Good passer, ok carrier, good defensively, but a little slow.
Play rice no6, bellingham no8 and madders in no10. Similar to a warped triangle similar to Arsenal but opposite right side where trent inverts from rb allowing belligham pushing up higher to link up with saka on the right.
I absolutely do not understand the english sentiment towards Henderson..Maguire i get (how can you play him with the likes of Tomori on the bench?)..but Henderson was absolutely intergral to your european and wc campaigns..he does the basic things which enable your more creative/athletic types to go do their thing..he lets the likes of maddison,foden,bellingham,etc.,play off him..he's just a solid no.8,strong defensively,almost always plays simple but progressive passes,always occupying centrally,but having a knack for making that one run into the box which results in a goal..you don't have another player like him..and maybe now you have a case against him,with him choosing to go to saudi arabia instead of,say,maybe spain or italy..but you did the same thing to carrick..never recognizing him for the world class player that he was until it was too late...
We'll look back at this era and think, we should have been European and world champions with that squad if we'd had a competent manager. Southgate is a charlatan.
Well done Adam.. Southgate is conservative but that tends to work at tournament football. Agree that Ward Prowse is an option. Also you have to wonder why Chelsea sold two academy players currently in the England back line? In part you could argue the third one - Levi Colwill - is the real deal. Could he have played the same ball Harry Kane played to Walker? I have to say yes. Unfortunately young and progressive are not terms synonymous with 'conservative' we will have to wait a while yet.... But like Bellingham, Collwill will just become too good to leave out.
Yes I'm here after the Maguire error but only as it reminded me of thoughts I had after watching the video. Firstly, I Like Adam, on here even more than whatculture. He's thoughtful, rational and intelligent but this argument is so incredibly flawed. In fact its circular. Maguire and Henderson must play because they play well for Southgate. Southgate sticks to this system due to players. And the players must play because of the system. But, playing those players means not trying others. Not finding new ways to play etc. The idea that Maguire should be there for progressive passing is bizarre. There's other much better at it? But we can't know if that's replicated for England if they're nor being picked. Same goes for Henderson. And the "this is what dominating looks like". Is it? Is this what Spain lolled like when the dominated? Germany? Brazil? When they actually dominated, not now when France is closest to that but not nearly as dominant.
Agreed that dominance at the international level is limited, but saying southgate is trying to jam square pegs into round holes is a bit silly. It’s true he has to work with what he is given, but if the system your using doesn’t bring the best of your top quality players, maybe it’s time to try a new system which southgate seems incapable of doing
For the love of Christ, the previous 4 games in this qualifying cycle finished as 7-0, 4-0, 2-0 and 2-1 wins. Including a win away in Italy down to 10 men. Ukraine managed to host a high profile home game with a ton of Ukrainians in the ground, it’s an outlier, it’s fine
i’m pretty sure some of these comments didn’t watch the video
Great observations and insights but I wish we won all the time 😂
Imagine making excuses for Maguire in 2023
Maguire's stats are totally misleading. 90% of the time England play against very inferior opposition. When they do come up against a decent team, Maguire gets found out.
The fact is he just isn't a very good ball player. He is not comfortable or capable on the ball. You just have to look at the last game against Scotland - that would not have been an own goal for any other international team in the world. He single handedly changed the whole game.
If your analysis is purely based on stats you should go and work for Todd Boehly.
Southgate continuing as England manager whilst football has gone through major tactical changes since he started is a bit of a joke now. Watch him try to emulate a version of Pep's style at City or Ange-ball at Spurs. Two styles he's incapable of understanding.
tugboat Maguire,turns like an oil tanker.
Maguire should be playing up front... we should not let our best player so far away from goal
Unfortunately no matter what Maguire's past skill or benefit was, you can tell he is suuuuper rusty, everytime he got the ball it looked clumsy :/. The defence got absolutely ripped apart by Ukraine everytime, England rarely looked dangerous on the attack, but Ukraine always felt like a threat!
13:16 In that particular match as well if the French keeper didn’t pull off two wonder saves in the last minute it would’ve been a draw
Do we care if we win if we're boring as hell? I don't
It's still possible to play a lot more exciting football even with the players England has. More intense football. JWP, Watkins, Madueke, Lamptey. You think teams will be happy to concede a lot of set pieces if JWP is out there taking them? There's lots of ways to play football that doesn't look like this drab garbage and still being defensively quite solid. Overall I do appreciate the point you're making, but there's ways to keep it simple enough for international players (who often play together for a long time to compensate for low training sessions) to play more enjoyable footy.
The whole setup favours centre backs, is it not plausible that even a championship centre back might perform well in this England side because it's so unadventurous.
How can you say wow maguire plays so well for England dispite his poor form at united but then say others aren't good enough, perhaps they will also excel.
God i hate it, get a transfer or get out the England squad
I just don't understand why Southgate struggles to pick 11 that actually play in their favoured positions. For example:
Pickford
Walker | Tomori/Maguire | Stones | Shaw
Bellingham | Rice | Maddison
Saka | Kane | Foden
And then you can change a few players around... E.g. maybe Grealish instead of Foden, or Rashford. Maddison could be replaced by Foden and then Grealish or Rashford player on the left wing. But fundamentally that 11, or close to it, is quality and should be able to score goals against any team.
Ok, so Henderson hasn't done poorly... Yet. But why wait for it to happen in an important game? Maguire I understand a bit more, but again, he isn't playing. His match fitness and general sharpness will not be there... Tomori meanwhile is playing CL football for AC Milan! Give him a chance to get used to the pressure of playing for England before Euro 2024.
And Southgate's decision to take off both Bellingham and Maddison when we needed a goal, instead of taking off Henderson? It's even more baffling, and clearly a sign he doesn't have the tactical mind, or isn't brave enough, to make impactful subs. I would have dropped Henderson to the bench, moved Maddison into midfield and put Foden on the left.
power to the Player 😂
Don't underestimate the rise of Saudi Arabia football. They are one of the best when comes to asian football
I’m sorry but there are a lot of really good cbs that should be given a chance. Continuing to pick maguire is foolish
Why does nobody seem to recognize that england is a small country that participates in most sports to a near top level.
Look at rugby, boxing, olympics, and football for example.
Population-wise, we are small, and we are spread thin cos we have so many sporting interests.
As much as i am not a fan of america bigging up everything american as the greatest thing in the world, english people are so critical of everything to do with english sportsmen.
We are not a massive country, yet we have a lot of talent in a wide variety of sports.
Even as spectators, make two videos, calling one "how good are england" and call the other "how bad are england," and you will see far more people watching the bad one. It's no wonder we suck at penalties when the majority of our own supporters are negative.
Is this an english trait?
Every other country plays with passion and belief. Every other country our size celebrates doing well. We don't win a final and we villify the players. We don't beat a "smaller" team and the players lack passion, lack creativity, lack a spine, lack tactical awareness. A part of the reason england are hated is because when we lose it is never the opponent playing well, it's always england playing poorly. I can see why people celebrate when we lose.
We need to accept that we are not the top footballing nation in the world and celebrate our achievements. Actually enjoy what we are seeing and who knows, they might not collapse the moment the opponent puts up a fight.
England is not a small country by population. The UK ranks 21st in the world and England itself would rank 24th or 25th. England hasn't been a small country since the start of the industrial revolution.
Of those countries larger in population, 8 have never been to a FIFA world cup and 3 more have only been to one. Several of these have historically less interest in football (eg India, China, Pakistan, Bangladesh). Taking all that into account 11 of the top 25 populations haven't ever been serious contenders at football. So England is competing with 14 more populous football nations (that includes USA of all countries)
@@mjwoodroff8446 you are absolutely right, i knew we were densely packed, but didn't realise it was that bad compared to other countries.
I was looking at land mass and jumping to a conclusion.
Argument was mostly about how negative we are, but i am wrong saying we are small population-wise. Should always do research!
Thanks for sharing the facts when arguing your point instead of hurling insults like plenty of other people would 👍
nah imo adams got this all wrong about international football not being dominatable (is that a word). Saying that spain lost to scotland becuase they haven't trained with each other even tho they have better players doesnt make any sense because its the same for scotland. Clearly the scottland and ukraine managers are doing something that the england and spain managers arent doing that means they can beat these teams with better players. they both have the same amount of time to prepare, except one team has better players, the other team has a better manager. what if you just gave the better manager, a team with better players.
Too many memes on Maguire spoiled his career
I would love to see your criteria for progressive passes, Watch Maguire tonight, he will do nothing but pass the ball sideways and sit deep. Rarely if ever have I seen him achieve any kind of cutting through ball or creative pass forward. The guy is a liability, the Ukraine goal the other night he ran straight into Guehi whilst Zinchenko slotted it in.