The Cadillac Cimarron - What Could Have Been
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- This is the tale of the infamous Cadillac Cimarron, a car that is the darling of every top 10 worst car list.
This video explores the story behind one of the most notorious failures in automotive history, but it also explores... what could have been.
A very special thanks to former Cadillac Chief of Design John Manoogian II for his amazing contributions to this video.
John and the rest of the automotive designers of the smog era had the same desire to produce cars that inspire, just as the rock star designers of the 50's and 60's and the automotive designers of the 70's and 80's deserve far more recognition for their contributions and efforts during the darkest phase of automotive history.
**Technical Correction: Power windows/locks were not standard for the '82 model year**
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I was given a mint condition one with 22k miles by a elderly neighbor who could no longer drive.
I had done chores of her's for years and received the car as a gift for helping her.
I had occasionally driven the car on errands and she meticulously maintained it.
It was a 88 and I got it when it was 12 years old.
I drove it all through college and for years afterwards.
It got rear ended and totaled with 235 k miles on it.
Everything was still working and it still drove well.
Friends laugh when I tell them I owned one but although it wasn't the greatest car it certainly isn't as bad as urban legend suggests.
I had one too and it gets a bad rap but it was actually a pretty nice lil car.
My first car was an 85 Cimarron. It did have the 4 cylinder. It was a nice little car, it was heavy though and you could tell with the 4 banger. I Loved that car.
you were lucky indeed :) can you tell me what you thought was "not the greatest" about it?
It was not a "bad" car-it just wasn't a luxury car, and it wasn't worth the price. GM did the same thing years later, with a German Opel car..it was called the "Catera" . Same story-a nice little car..but not a luxury car.
I owned a 1985 manual (Factory installed) and a 1987. Best cars I've ever owned.
The joke on the assembly line was the cimarron was a free gift with every purchase of a Deville or Fleetwod Brouham , the one we heard over in the skilled trades , that it was not to receive a power plant as it was a free pedal car for the children of Cadillac customers. Had Mr Manoogian been able to perform his art to the heights he normally soared at , it could easily have rivaled the Euro car market at that time in America , He kept the division on the cutting edge in a very competitive era and many rank and file men respected him. John thank you for keeping us going in an era of an unsure future , your efforts and ideas helped keep me and many others working until We were able to retire . It was an honor and a pleasure making your visions a reality .
As with many GM cars, by the time they got it right, they killed it.
Mitchell Radford its so true that's GM
Ain't that the truth.
Fiero....
GM stands for GENERALLY MURDERED.
I mean the Cimarron was never really right. They did get it to an acceptable level buy the time they killed it. The way the 87 model looked should have been the way it was on launch.
Thanks, Tofer for that trip down memory lane. That was quite an experience working in Cadillac during those troubled times. The video does a remarkable job telling the ill fated Cimarron story. It could have been so much more.
Thanks so much again John for contributing to this video. It is such an honor to be able to share your amazing concept sketches.
You liked huge wheels and no room for an engine, haha. Too far ahead of your time. You should have been around now, with the electric age dawning.
@@TofersCarTales Indeed! those sketches were amazingly forward in design and beauty and hold up even to today.
Mr. Manoogian, it is too bad your concept art never made it to the showroom. The concept art showed a truly cool American sport/luxury that this 17 year old back in 1988 would have been proud to drive...WOW.
Thanks for the insight and original drawings John! I see your vision did influence cars years later, especially the nicely designed Lumina etal.
This is a phenomenal video. I love the way you told the history of this like it was a story. Awesome job!
Hey, I had that 'Star Wars' 1978 calendar! :-D
And the tradition continues. GM couldn't market water in the desert.
To be fair marketing was the least of its problems.
You know in the 70's GM was King of the American Auto Industry but they screwed the pooch with poor upper level mgmt blunders like the Cimarron and the Buick Reatta which was a great looking car but like many GM Vehicles in the 80's Quality was NOT Job 1, Job 2 or Job 3...it was more like an afterthought and they Paid the Price Royally as people flocked to Japanese cars like Honda, Toyota and Datsun!!
LOL.....
LOL
Hahahahahaha!!!!!! Outstanding comment
Well I'm not sure why the "premiere" of this video was in VHS quality, but please take another look in a bit and hopefully it will appear as intended quality. Thanks for your support everyone! Tofer
Video uploads take a while to be encoded in higher resolution. When you come across new uploads that are 360p you know you're one of the first to see it.
Also. GM became too arrogant. I wish we could travel back in time and slap around some arrogant people, maybe we'd still have Pontiac and Oldsmobile... Sad face.
I have a 1995 Oldsmobile 98 [2nd owner] and a 2002 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP [bought new]. Both are in great shape and I love both of them. There is not a single new car that interests me.
Yeah, Pontiac was almost saved by the G8 but the economic recession hit a little too soon
(Fun fact, from my research it's a misconception that GM had to choose between Pontiac or Buick for which brand to kill, it was instead a choice between Pontiac and GMC)
@@cpufreak101 The rebranded "Holden GTO" wasn't a bad idea either...
The Bubble killed some pretty good ideas.
Ford was the only real winner around 2005-11.
Ford, GM, and Chrysler all have had their significant missteps. Chrysler had its turn with excessive badge-engineering with the Cirrus, Stratus, and Breeze. I owned a first-generation Stratus, it was an extremely good handling car, probably the best handling car I've ever owned. And while my particular car had the mid-engine option, the same drivetrain that the supposedly more upscale Cirrus had was available in the Dodge, as were nice seats and other interior options.
Fundamentally it comes down to an unwillingness to change something necessary to differentiate the vehicles. GM with the J-body and Chrysler with the Cloud cars were unwilling to change fenders, doors, a/b/c pillars, quarter panels, or roofs. I'm not sure if hoods or trunk lids were also identical, but even if they were not, they weren't dissimilar enough to evoke anything. I also expect that inner fender and core-supports were identical, as were radiators, engines, transmissions, and most other mechanical components.
For Cadillac to have succeeded with Cimmaron it would have been necessary to change sheet metal. Could've been changing fenders, doors, and quarter panels like on the later stablemates, but realistically for a car that small it probably had to be a/b/c pillars and roofs as well.
An example where this was done right actually comes from Chrysler. The Aspen, Volare, Diplomat, Fury, New Yorker, 5th Avenue, Cordoba, Mirada, and Imperial in various years were all built on variations of a common platform. Chrysler was smart enough to differentiate body codes and to allow for much greater variation, creating the F-body, M-body, and J-body. F and M even had same wheelbases in some years, but quarter panels were changed. J-bodies in particular had different fenders, hoods, quarters, roofs, and doors, but firewalls, radiator core supports, and floor pans were basically the same as were most of the mechanical parts. Even parked side-by-side they don't look like they're identical cars.
@@cpufreak101 Pontiac bucked the government with their Trans Am 455. Oldsmobile was killed because Kennedy and Mary Jo.
I frequent quite a few auto-related forums and Facebook pages, and I've opined about the Cimarron quite a bit. In my opinion, Cadillac picked the WRONG vehicle on which to base the car. They went 'TOO small'. The platform they SHOULD have chosen was the A-body, off of which came everything from a pretty basic Chevy Celebrity, all the way to VERY satisfactory Pontiac 6000 STE and Buick Century Limited.
Cadillac could have done their styling touches to Buick Century Limited (or T-Type) underpinnings, added some 6000 STE suspension pieces, and had a world-class driving vehicle with a fuel-injected 3 liter V6 engine.
I drove a 1983 Pontiac 6000 as a company car for a few years, and it was a NICE car. I wish Cadillac had given the platform a try.
So people not wanting a Cimarron because its a dressed up Cavaleir, makes sense. Today people have no problem dropping 100K on an Escalade and dont see it as a Tahoe with a touch screen LOL.
Except the escalade was legendary, this one was crap.
The Escalade may be a legendary but it's still a gussied up Tahoe.
Es muy cierto tu comentario como con el catera ,pero a los fanáticos eso no lo ven
Those images of the two door Cavalier made me think... what if they had waited, launched it with the V6, AND had a two door variant! It would have looked like, and been a practical and equally stylish alternative to the Maserati BiTurbo and 2 door BMW 3 series of the time... damn!
And potentially the wagon. I have always dreamed of a Cimarron wagon.
* Please help this channel grow by commenting, liking or disliking and subscribing if you enjoyed! =] *
Just shared it on one of Ireland’s best FB classic car pages, hopefully it’ll get you some more much deserved subs!! 🇮🇪
Great content, subscribed!
@@Cheezwizzz lkkkkkkkkkzkozo
no need to introduce Cadillac to someone clicking on a video about the cimmaron.
The Cavalier was supposed to be the best built GM small car ever. It had an absolute lump of a motor in the first model year. The quality wasn’t there, either. The GM bean counters made sure the Cadillac version wasn’t special.
Great sketches towards the end! They look a lot like what the Eldorado/Seville/Deville turned out to look like in the '90s.
Mr Tofer, you are getting better and better, and this is your best yet. Love your channel and all the old footage and shots of sales brochures you display. I find myself freezing the screen a LOT on your vids just to read the literature! Can't wait for your next one :)
Thanks so much for these kind words. I'm so thrilled to hear you are enjoying the brochures. I've intentionally tried to make them as clear as possible in case someone was interested in reading them. You made my evening.
The 1970s Cadillac Seville was how you properly build a small luxury car using a humble economy care base, a worked over Chevy nova platform and drivetrain with (mostly) unique body and interior which is a template used by nearly all carmakers today. Cimmaron couldve been the same success if only GM hadn't become so cynical and treat the public with such contempt under Roger Smith and spend the little extra time and money doing a proper job. Apparently in the research and development department there's a picture of a cimmaron with the caption "never again" such was the impact it made but they kept doing the same thing with the catera (average) and first escalade (terrible). Doing tarted up cookie cutters of Buick and oldsmobile versions of chevy models was nearly a sacrilege and ruined their brand equity
Yeah it's kinda annoying when people bemoan GM's "corporate parts bin" without realizing there is a spectrum of difference between *platform sharing* and *badge engineering.* The first is a great idea to manage costs, and has always been a key aspect of GM's success, while the latter can be catastrophic for brand identity. Although the '87 & '88 Cimarron wasn't quite a Cadillac it might have been a modest success if introduced as such from the start. I've often thought of how the Pontiac 6000 STE was briefly available with AWD during the same period. If they managed to add AWD to the Cimarron (or base it entirely on the A-body Celebrity/6000) it could've been an American Audi for the '80s. The idea wasn't without merit; the lazy, reckless execution of it was. Also, I LOVE the '70s Seville it's a gorgeous car.
That is why the 78 Seville was a success, and today highly collectible.
All you have to say to bring up images of the "Empire" from Star Wars is mention Roger Smith. That ass-clown drove GM off the bridge and it never came back. Pontiac, Oldsmoble, the Cimarron, mishandling the Fiero, then fucking it over only 5 years later when it actually was all coming together, Barreta, killing the G body when it was still a good seller....... the list goes on and on. Terrible is not a bad enough word for Roger Smiths legacy at GM.
"Cynical" and "Contempt" are perfect words to describe GM's approach. And the fact that Catera and Escalade INSTANTLY became "Catheter" and "Excalantaay" tells me that the public understood GM's contempt, and was throwing that contempt right back at them.
@@iluvcamaros1912 what the eff are you talking about. You act as if when the Cimarron wasn't the exact same car as the Chevy Cavalier, Buick Skylark, Olds Fierenza?! My momma bought a Cimmarron and I never forgave her because it looked like other GM cars, and that car wasn't worth of being a Cadillac. These cars were basically badge engineered and on the same platforms. Only the fronts and asses of these cars were different from each other... Trust me. The interiors were about the same across all the brands. Same Delco radios and more.
It is clear that many of his ideas were actually used in later GM designs. I can see so many different lines in those sketches that actually went into production all around GM. Very cool to see.
This is a truly excellent video. Seriously, awesome. Thank you for making it!
This was GM 's attempt to do what Lee Iacocca did stretch out as many models on one platform for a car called the K"s. These were worse than Chrysler's K cars of the 80's and 90's
Yes, very heavy cars for their size. Drank a lot of gas.
I pulled an analog cluster from one in the junkyard and installed it in my cavalier. Great upgrade!
@Donald Trump is Ghetto Trash would have loved to but could not find one in the local yards. Would have fit perfectly though.
Saw the video pop up first in my feed when I came back home from work... now that's a good way to end a day! Thanks
A carpeted trunk as standard equipment?!? Sign me up!
Levman74 😆😂
Now if I can lay n the trunk with my drink even better. Lol
Carpeted trunk so you can lay in comfort while waiting on tow truck.
That 80s commercial at the end with the aerobic dancers is gold LOL LOL
“SOLID Gold” you might say 😂😂😂
I see a lot of ideas in the prototype sketches that would come to realization in 90s Chrysler products.
Very well done! Brilliant docu, brilliant editing to make it all feel very 80s
Thanks so much for the kind words, very much appreciated. This was an early video where I was still getting my voice over work in order. So honored to hear you enjoyed.
And they repeated it with the Catera , GM truly amazes me how out of touch yet we gave them BILLIONS to repeat the same mistake.
Tinky Nine
And they replaced the Catera with the CTS, except this time around people were dumb enough to buy into the crappy car.
I think the Catera had a European body.
@@Greatdome99 the Catera was a Holden with an Opel engine.
@@Greatdome99 Yep. It was a Opel Omega and it was built in Germany.
When I sold for a Cadillac dealership We couldn't give away Cateras. Chevy Malibus in a skirt. Exactly the same thinking. 😆
A cavalier with power windows, but the sad part is. Some of these didn't even have power windows.
Unfortunately they used a Chevy cavalier as the basis for the car,all they did was dress up and put lipstick on a pig
It was a difficult task to find the Chevrolet Nova's structure from the Seville's skin, a brazenly brilliant disguise back then. "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". I was one of the latter wanting to buy a Cimarron until reality sunk in.
Well said
Another example of GM badge engineering......
David R:
You could say the same of the 1st Generation Seville....low-buck remake of the Chevy Nova...slap a Cadillac Badge on it along with the highest list Price of any Cadillac then.....suckers line-up to buy it...unfortunately that formula did not wok with the Caviler/Cimarron...as even a low-rent $8,000 loaded-up Sentra was a better and more refined car back in the day
@@dmcnamara9859 true but the Seville looked better it had that Cadillac feel to it it had its own body not a chevy made over to look like a caddy to me the worst thing Cadillac did was those late 80s eldos i called them mustang Eldorado's they were too small i was glad when started making the big again at least by the 90s standard
Another classic case of GM pulling the plug on a model, just when they started to get it right. Didn't learn anything from the 70's, about rushing new cars to market.
Do you really think they were starting to get this pile of shit right? A cavalier w a Cadillac badge ? A Fiat w a Ferrari badge and they just need to keep working till they get it right.
@@mikecastellon3022 would it had been better if they had picked the Buick skylark? They're all the same car! Stop picking on Chevy.
In the 60's, Cadillac was the car to have. An example of this was shown in '69 movie about Beverly Hill call "Soap". This movie was about rich people and movie stars. All the cars in the movie were Cadillac.
Today, if the same movie were made, all the cars would be European. Cadillac has never regained it's status. An uncle of mine bought a new Cadillac every year. He claimed that the depreciation was so small, that it was equal to the cost of maintaining a car. So he never bought tires, batteries, or shocks.
I would say Lincoln had a similar fall from grace. For whatever reason though, my mother, when she was 42 years old in 2005, wanted to buy a brand new Mercury Grand Marquis because it reminded her of old, huge Lincolns she'd see growing up in Mississippi back in the '70s. I could never relate, huge cars don't appeal to me.
It was a Chevy Cavalier with leather seats. My mom had one. I told her she could take to Chevrolet for maintenance down the street,instead of going cross town to Cadillac.
Bought in 1988 for my wife. The car held its own with a v6 engine. By this time, the car was going away. We did have Gold Keys. I believe we kept till 1991 and trade for a DeVille. But I certainly remember.👍
My next door neighbor has a burgundy one with only 60k miles on it. I detail it every week and man!! it's like new!!
Eril Burgos your neighbor wish to sell? No joke
Sure i will sell it
Is it a v6?
They should have used the Buick dash instead of the Cavaliers. 5 speed, V-6 out if the gate. Or they could have used the A body instead.
Yeah, the dash looked cheap
Should have used a Cadillac style dash...
I liked the layout of the Chevy dash, but it did make the car more like a Chevy. The A-body would probably have been better, but the days when a not-big FWD car could easily be billed as "sporty luxury" were running out, despite the fact that Saabb and Audi could still get away with it. The limitations of FWD hardly mattered to the average driver, but the advantages of RWD or AWD on the race track made these average drivers feel better enough about themselves to be willing to pay a lot more .
I agree, the A6000 STE and the Celebrity Eurosport were both well received and competitive at the time. Waiting a couple years and then Putting the Cadillac treatment on one of these models would have been much less risky than putting it on a new model that had not been proven in the market yet. They could have made the HO v6 standard and still offered the 4cyl to those who were concerned with fuel economy. This also would have helped bridge the gap for the delayed C/H platforms.
The A Body might have been a winner...
Or at least done better than the "Cavalier Brougham"! 😲
In 84 I bought an 82 Cimarron with only 13000 miles on it. It rode very nice and was comfortable and the interior was finished nicely. That's it. Everyone said I had bought an expensive Cavalier and I got taken. The engine had no power at all and the air conditioner was weak and never really cooled the car. 6 months later the main computer in the car went out and was sending wrong information to the other computers. Can't be fixed, need a new one and the 24 months were up. 945 dollars in 1984 money. About 4 months later the engine started to self destruct, there was water in the oil and they wanted 2500 dollars for a new engine. So much for the Cadillac brand.
Funny as it maybe, I actually WANT a Cimarron! They are very hard to find! There was a beautiful example of a red on red '87 V6 for sale locally that I kinda regret not buying!
Watch what you wish for.... I owned a 84 Cimarron......it was a glorified Chevy Cavalier......worst Caddy I ever owned.....what a lemon.... I was warned not to buy her......it was just 4 years old with 20,000 mile on it
You actually WANT a Cimarron? Don't worry, others will come along. In the meantime you can find comfort by spending quality time with your equally impressive pet rock.
@@19761999 Well polished rocks are kinda neat, but regular rocks are kinda boring.
Not many around because they fell apart!.Pure JUNK!.
You're joking ... Right???.. Johnny DeVille lol..
Tofer, may I say you have produced an Excellent & Very informative video. Thanks for the ride down Memory Lane.
AWESOME 🎯
Wow, that concept artwork is amazing! Why didn’t they listen to John?! Although I did like the look of the 87-88 model. What kinda money do these currently sell for? Great video Sir!!!! From a huge Irish Cadillac fan!
Cimarrons about $300 in USA now... if you can find one outside of the junkyard...
@Donald Trump is Ghetto Trash There's 2 Cimarron's for sale on AutoTrader.com... Both are almost $9k though lol.
Great video, thanks for getting and sharing those concept designs!
I have an 84 with the Astroroof, symphony sound, gold keys, luggage rack, dual power seats, every single option except the d'oro pkg and the title from 12-6-83.
Are you bragging or complaining????? heh heh
I have in my opinion one of the best Cadillacs of the 80s-early90s era...a 1990 5.7 Brougham d' Elegance and wouldn't mind parking a nice Cimarron next to it! But then I realized I also really want a '77-'78 Eldorado Biarritz, '81-'84 Coupe Deville, '81-'84 Sedan Deville, '75-'76 Fleetwood, '65-'66 Fleetwood, '54-'77 ambulance, '57-'58 Eldorado Brougham, and the list continues! So many great Cadillacs!
@Donald Trump is Ghetto Trash I have a 1991 Fleetwood coupe as well, and it's a great car. I drove a '93 Deville for 8 years and it was amazing and reliable. I love the 4.5 and 4.9 FWD Cadillacs alot too, they are great cars.
Still LOVE the late 70's Eldos!!
Except of course the V8-6-4......
Just found this channel, and wow, I love it! Just finished watching the video about the Taurus. Now I'm settled in again and here we go...
This was a very informative video, & I enjoyed watching it. In the mid-80's, our parking lot at work often had a Cavalier (belonged to 1 of my co-workers) and a Cimarron (belonged to someone else in the building). At least a few times, they were parked next to each other, and when I would look down at them, from the 2nd floor window, I would think of the refrain in the Cimarron commercials at the time - "Best of all, it's a Cadillac".
Those designs at the end were basically of the SLS/STS, a decade before they came out.
I know. But holy shit!! Look at the newest monstrocities! WTF
The black and silver two tone Cadillac Seville with wire wheels on the TV set is the same one my dad owned in 1979. It had the same specs with a diesel engine .
The last drawing of the Coupe was hot. Maybe it should have been a two door based on the Camaro/Firebird platform and powertrain from the beginning.
I really don’t know why but I have such a soft spot for these cars. I remember right before I got my license I BEGGED my parents to get me a Cimarron with the digital gauges and composite headlamps but they weren’t convinced. I got back at them by buying my first car (Merkur Scorpio) a few years later. They won lol
The Ford Scorpio was an excellent car, especially by the standards of the day. It had a very spacious and comfortable interior, so you had made the right choice. Unfortunately, Ford had made many mistakes with the marketing of the car (the Merkur moniker being the biggest one), and, as a result, a very good product soon became a failure in the US.
Must've been nice too be spoiled
Do you still have your Merkur? My cousin held on to his hatchback... He bought it new and it’s been sitting in his garage in mint condition. I had to message you because it’s a car you rarely hear mentioned.
paulparoma the Scorpio was FANTASTIC!! It’s packaging was remarkable being that it had nowhere nearthe footprint of the Fleetwood by Cadillac but it TROUNCED it in every imaginable dimension ESPECIALLY rear leg and knee room. I was able to get a twin box spring, mattress, and a chest of drawers in the trunk with the hatch CLOSED!! And I agree that Ford really screwed up on the marketing with the whole marque. While I personally think the Merkur brand name was elegant sounding it was a disaster to American tongues. I used to cringe when anyone would say “Murkur” 🤮
Joey P nah I had two back to back and the weak A4LD trannys went on both of them. After two rebuilds I could no longer take, or afford to keep it on the road. I’d LOVE to have another but I rarely see them for sale here in the Charlotte area. If your cousin still has his tell him to hold on to it. Both of my Merkurs are ranked as “the ones that got away...”. I still long for the multi state drives that I used to make from CLT, NC to Tampa Fl. Those cars GOBBLE up miles like pac man
Wow! What an excellent video..all the way around. Informative, good narration, and great music to boot.
I remember the Cimarron and the 80’s all too well. You captured the period.
Thank you very much. I truly enjoyed watching.
This was a stellar documentary of one of the most unloved Cadillacs, but one that I really wanted back in 1988. The ever so slight fine tuning of design was at its best in 88. I would have ordered the 5 speed without question, but wanting to be sure I was making the right choice of a manual transmission where a daily commute in heavy traffic, perhaps the 3 speed automatic would suffice. I am glad I took a test drive as it was soon apparent, any speeds above 100 Kilometres per hour (I am Canadian where the metric system is in place) or the equivalent to 62 miles per hour was a terrible speed to push this car. Lacking a 4th overdrive gear the engine was spinning over 3,500 rpms! The 5 speed dropped that to about 2,000. I really wanted this car with the latter transmission. Back to the dealer to discuss price. What? I could have a similarly equipped J car, minus the digital dash & leather seats for half the price? Wow, those items separating the two lines would mean the leather seats & digital dash would be worth $4,000 each!! I ended up settling on a Chysler LeBaron GTS with the turbo 2.2 and 5 speed overdrive, no leather seats, but a spectacular gee-whiz digital dash that I miss to this day, a ride that cost me 40% less than the Caddy. If I were a betting man, a 1988 Cimarron with the 5 speed and functioning digital dash will be a collectable in 10 years if well preserved, look for this at auction.
(See my comment below.)
Andy Pittman I had a GTS 2.2 turbo. But with automatic. And that wasn’t a good choice for that car. The stick would have been much better. Highway cruising was frenetic with the auto
I had the Lancer turbo; $10,999 with power windows, locks and seats. The automatic was great for brake burns, but the ride was painful (rubber spring boosters made it bearable), and the air conditioner was a PIA; 4 narrow streams of freezing air, recirculate only on the coldest setting and it sometimes cut out when the turbo kicked in. Nice car for the money, but only for the money.
PC No yeah mine was loaded too. Leather, power seats, digital dash, alloy wheels. Lol I do remember the AC cutting out on hard acceleration. Honestly it was a quick car. Nice to drive around town except the ride was a bit hard without enough give. Chrysler hadn’t figured out how to make a suspension compliant yet firm. It caught fire when the fuel rail leaked. The fire came out the hood vent for the turbo so I saw it right away. The insurance company fixed it and I traded it in on a Sebring Convertible.
"Perhaps the 3 speed autos would suffice." There's another problem. While all HE's cars that were worth anything had 4 speed autos since 1984, what gives with the, choke, choke, CADILLAC cheaping out?
Excellent video! Love the sketches towards the end. I see my 87 Allanté and 94 Seville in those. Also, got a huge laugh out of the two dancing dudes with the blue tank tops!
Excellent video, the best I have seen in some time.
I don’t know how many of you here remember the 1985 Cimarron PPG concept, but it was on the J-body platform as well. In very concept car fashion it was designed in a way that it would never come to market. It had a dual-cowl feature that would never sell in large enough numbers in that form for it ever to go into production.
But keep that design language and re-imagine it as 178 inch compact sport sedan, and you would have had a fantastic car from a design perspective. It also had the V-6 with 130hp. There are contemporary reviews of the V-6 Cimarron that praised the Cimarron for its driving dynamics. But Cadillac didn’t just improve the driving dynamics by 1985.
They also did a great job with acoustics. It was the quietest car in its class and produced only 65 db at 60 miles an hour. And yes, it was far quieter than the Cavalier it was based on, which rang up 72 db at 60mph according to a review of the cavalier I saw while combing through old reviews from that era.
So, by 1985 you had a quiet well-appointed sports sedan that compared favorably to the BMW 320i, Mercedes 190e, and Audi 4000S.
So, now imagine it debuting like that, and imagine it was graced by the sheet metal and interior design of the Cimarron PPG concept (sans dual-cowl configuration). The word Cadvalier would never have been coined.
But… (there was always a ‘but’) maybe it’s for the best that the Cimarron was a failure. Imagine a FWD Cimarron being a success. You know what never happens?
‘
The Sigma platform never happens. The Alpha platform never happens. And the CT4 and CT5 Blackwings never happens.
GM would never had seen a reason for putting all that money in developing those outstanding RWD platforms. The world would be bleaker for it.
I was born in 1980 and I’ve always been obsessed with cars to this day. I remember the the 86 version of the cimmaron and saying am I dreaming this looks like a cavalier 🤣🤦🏼♂️. Seen one the other day in surprising good shape and it was unmistakably a cavalier with Cadillac badging.
Some of those concept sketches at the end look a bit like Cadillacs developed in the 1990's. It's hard to believe that those concept sketches were actually done in the early 80's!
GM clearly used his drawings for other cars down the road. I saw multiple versions of the early 90s Caprice Classic and the Beretta. Chrysler got their hands on the last few with the Concorde/Intrepid line.
I think I saw the Lumina and the Intrigue in there too.
I miss Beretta and Caprice. GM is not the same now.
Ppl like to hate on it, but the car isn't so bad. However, this video production is outstanding.
A couple of those design sketches look like cars that Cadillac actually produced in the mid-90s. The 2nd one in particular has a striking resemblance to the '94 Seville.
The 3rd one looks like a Chevy Beretta, the 4th looks like a Chevy Lumina, and the 5th looks like a Chevy Celebrity.
Yes, the one sketch looks like a future 90's Seville STS
What a superb video, and the bonus at the end!!! Awesome 😎
I feel bad for the Cimarron. It could’ve been the car that changed Cadillac and brought the brandy and cigar brand into the new streamlined age of the 80s. A sporty car with a bit of the old Cadillac touch. A proto CTSV if you will. But of course, that never happened. GM slacked through the 70s making the same big cars, thinking the energy crisis would blow over, and by the time the Japanese got their foot into the door of the American market in the early 80s, they started rushing to create contemporary cars to bring to market, cutting corners as they did with the Cimarron. Had they put in the extra time and effort developing these cars, so they could be dominators instead of mere competitors, I believe the landscape of Cadillac and the American roads would’ve looked different.
It took then amother 25 years and another failed attempt at this by rebadging and de-tuning an Opel Catera before they got it right with the cts-v.
Weird comment here but me and a Cimarron fan buddy of mine just watched this while on FaceTime and noted how “crisp and calming” your voice was. It’s almost easing to ppl with anxiety as we both have..idk, very weird for us to notice this but but it is what it is. Thumbs up and keep making vids man 👍🏾👍🏾
Wow that's so cool to hear. I'm not particularly fond of the sound of my voice so reading this is actually quite heart warming.
Problem: American luxury car buyers are turning to the rear-drive, performance-minded Mercedes Benz and BMW. Solution: Rush to market a heavy, underpowered front-drive car designed to compete with the Dodge Omni and VW Rabbit, and weight it down with pointless amenities and a silly price tag.
And really, they didn't even define the problem correctly. Nobody gave a flying-PUCK about "performance" or "rear-drive". People just wanted cars that weren't thrown-together by goons in Detroit. And they wanted SAFETY. Detroit decided that since the safe cars being made in Scandinavia and Germany, and the reliable cars being made in Japan, were "boxy and ugly", that the solution was to fool the public, by making American cars as boxy and ugly as Northwest European and Northeast Asian cars (while doing nothing to improve quality, and actually making them MORE DANGEROUS, by making them smaller). Somehow, Detroit's new ugliness was supposed to fool the public into thinking they were buying Saabs and Mercedes. So, Detroit came out with cars that were ugly, unreliable, and dangerous.
@@megaswenson Good analysis; GM was always trying to fool the public with "badge engineering". Anybody with a brain knew that the Cimarron was just a extra-fancy Chevy. As for trying to sell a luxury car brand with a cheap imposter-look at M-B's ill-fated "Maybach" line-it was an insanely expensive luxo-barge that wasn't as good as a S-Class M-B.
@@megaswenson GM was now following trends instead of setting them. The boxy car aesthetic first found popularity in Europe with designs such as the wedge-shaped Lancia Stratos Zero and the Lamborghini LP400 Countach, then with Giorgetto Giugiaro-penned cars such as the Volkswagen Golf (Rabbit), Scirocco, and the Simca Horizon. GM decided to follow the crowd. They didn't think that the hit to sales could be a combination of gas prices (even when the good times came back, people didn't forget), increased product sharing (why buy a Buick when I can get a Chevy or Pontiac that's pretty much the same thing for less) and atrocious build quality. GM's styling department was instructed to make the cars look more European, regardless of other problems. My father bought a 71 Datsun 510 based on research and reviews, and even then he was amazed at the quality of the little sedan and how well it drove. His brother bought a VW Rabbit GTI several years later and was similarly impressed. When Mom's Vega wagon hit about 70,000 miles (remarkably, that was perfectly reliable due to my father knowing how to maintain cars and aircraft), they looked at a Citation, then new, and were absolutely abhorred by how terribly made the car really was. She bought a Civic wagon instead. It wasn't just the styling fooling people. GM, in the space of a few years, pretty much abandoned the idea of building quality products, and within ten years of the Seville's launch Cadillac had become an also-ran. And they still are today. Sorry that was too long and kinda rambling.
@@genekelly8467 Badge engineering isn't a bad thing when the cars have separate personalities. My first car was a 70 Pontiac Firebird, which was almost identical underneath to the Camaro. But the cars were still distinct, still different enough to have separate identities, something the Cimmaron didn't have when compared to the Cavalier, J2000, Firenza and Skyhawk. The Ford Thunderbird and Lincoln Mark VII were pretty much the same car too, but they managed to be different enough that they were both cool. GM was such a mess at that point that they decided to create an entirely different and separate division to build quality cars to combat the imports rather than taking steps to improve the products for the divisions they already had. Then they screwed that up by (surprise) folding Saturn in with the rest and badge engineering them too. GM didn't deserve a bailout. They made their bed and they deserved to fall right into it.
@@megaswenson Well, the people who deserted Cadillac and Lincoln wanted performance and handling with their plush ride. But American makers coudln't figure out how to make that sort of car profitable (or a manageable loss leader) while at the same time satisfying the rapidly emerging demand for economy (box = interior space). So they made crap for everybody.
The quality and artistry of this video really impressed me.
Thanks for these kind comments. A lot of negativity lately towards this video. I appreciate this.
I gotta hand it to the guy, he makes good documentaries.
your production is already 1.6M subscriber level. looking forward to upcoming videos. keep up the great work!
Thanks for the support! I really do appreciate it.
It is really a shame, GM had its moments when their products were gold. Now it is just like Adam Sandler films. Although one day I hope they rise again.
What’s really sad, is the executives in charge of the team responsible for the Cimmeron, we’re allowed to remain employed with GM; thus ensuring even more future disappointments. 😡
Excellent video. I haven't researched it, but wasn't the V6 Cimarron the quickest Cadillac at the time?
James England probably. I wouldn’t doubt the Cimarron was the fastest caddy at the time. They were using the 4100 in everything else if you remember. I had an 82 Seville. I can’t even begin to tell you how underpowered that car was. From a stop it was ok because the 4100 was torquey. But once at speed that engine was gutless in that huge car. The car drove great otherwise and was as quiet as a cathedral. It had extra thick side glass and a ton of sound insulation. Honestly, other than the 4100, it was a good car and drove like the most expensive Cadillac should drive, ride and handling wise. The features were cool too. Trip computer, digital dash, Bose stereo (the first made for the car sound system), power everything, even recliners. The license plate locked so nobody get siphon gas. A true luxury car. Sold it to a guy who wanted something comfortable to drive across the country. Nobody wanted an 82 Seville in 1990 so I let it go for a paltry amount. Like 2,000 dollars. I don’t want to even say how much it cost new.
The Cimarron is a cautionary tale of a brand losing its way - and believing its customers are stupid
I actually thought the last Cimarrons looked pretty nice---especially in white for some reason.
The sketches of the designer at the end are very cool. It really adds to the history of the Cimarron.
Awesome video! Great mix of details on a car that pulled Cadillac down.. I remember when I was kid a friend of the family had one wasn't thst bad but a waste of money for a name and marketing could try to convince
I had a navy blue 1986 1/2 Cimarron. It was a brand new car and my first car, my dad was in life insurance and had car dealers as clients... my dad happened to mention to a Caddy dealer client that i was a Cadillac fan and the dealer offered him a Cimarron at a very good discount..it had all options (navy over silver with navy leather bolsters with Heather knit cloth centers and no digital dash... it was a great car (by 1986 1/2) and I wish I had it back now...
Cool. I was conceived in the back of Cimarron.
Had there been a bit more leg room, I would have been a girl.
Totally agree with you about the Motor Rags bashing digital dashes (i always loved them)and now these same magazines influence is bringing us electric cars... very sad
I still laugh when people bad mouth this car, yes it could have been more, but how many of you were there in 1982? Do you remember , there was not another small car with leather interior , and full power, no one then had one. Yes it was rushed and they should have done this like they did the Seville in 1976. A couple years later the Cimarron was a pretty good car, V6 engine , full power , leather interior. People who had them liked them, and a lot of them were women. It should have come out about 1985, but by then everyone wanted a Eldorado , not a Cimarron
^Except for the fact that people were saying "would've should've could've" in 1982. It may be an OK car in and of itself, but when compared to it's rivals at the time it's a complete joke of a car. It's not very funny when we are the ones expected to pay for it, and we are all still paying for this garbage in the form of bailouts and tax subsidies.
@@jasont.9559 actually it was not a bad car, I had several friends with them, both women. There was nothing like it then , not from Mercedes Benz or BMW. Also the car buying public in the early 80s was very concerned about gas mileage, so another reason for this car. 2 years later, a outside update and V6 engine, it was a much better car. The original model did have updates on the suspension it was not just a Chevy. Don't forget, Olds and Buick also had their version of this car. I went and looked at the cimarron when it came out, it was not really geared for you, it was really geared towards women, and most people I saw with them were women, so maybe they hit the mark they were trying for.
@Donald Trump is Ghetto Trash I agree, actually I would have bought one by then also , if I needed a car, I liked the dark green they had then. When the car came out, Cadillac said it was geared towards a Cadillac owner that needed a car for the wifes car.
@Donald Trump is Ghetto Trash A guy and his wife , who attended the church I go to, was driving one about 89, a really good looking one, I remember thinking that would fit my behind pretty good, but I was still driving a low millage late 70s Electra 2 dr that almost everyone mistook for a coupe deville LOL
@@jasont.9559 No one was saying that in 1982, I was a avid reader of auto magazines then, nada, nobody
Can we thank Ed Kennard for the Cimmaron? It's hard to believe GM would misread the market so badly to bring out such a lemon.
Well researched & interesting video. 2 thumbs up on this one
Hey, that "Symphony Sound" system was actually legit. I thought it sounded better than almost any other factory system I've heard in a long time! You still have your Cimarron?? :D
That Cimarron is literally now in a museum. It was so clean, a curator gave me an offer I couldn't refuse.
I have the symphony sound in my 84!
This video guy loved the digital instruments... but we buyers/drivers don't...
J-body cars were barely competitive with Japanese small cars, so it's a shame a Cadillac was based on it.
This channel is superb! I really enjoy the content and the editing. Keep them coming man! Wonderful 😀😀
The first generation Seville was great.
Then they brought in the new version with the slant on the trunk!🙄
In Brazil, this platform derived ours Monza, most similar of the original german Opel Ascona.
This was extremely interesting, thank you. Since the Cimarron failed so thoroughly, what's the story with the Catera? It seems they tried again with the same formula and failed again?
Douglas Maxwell Catera was a German built rebadged Opel
Surprisingly good video- it's obvious you put alot of research into this. Thanks for all the good info.
(And how cool is it that Mr. Manoogian provided you his original sketches with his idea of what Cimarron could've (and maybe SHOULD'VE) been.)
I had an 87 back in 2002. It was shit as a Cadillac, but it was the dreamiest Cavalier in the world. I miss that car. It was fun to drive.
Also, THE BEST PART of this video is the ending with the Cadillac Theme Song! OMG!
Ahh the cheap caddy just a rebranded Chevy cavalier. Love the soundtrack 😊
That's why "Cadavalier" fits the bill. LOL
I remember someone next to me saying, upon approaching a parked Cimarron, "Some people will buy anything, as long as it says 'Cadillac' on it. It was a sad marketing attempt, and my own feeling was that it was something of an insult to a car buyer's sense of discernment.
On the other hand the Seville was a rebadged Nova, and it did very well.
The concept drawings clearly show the future design of the next generation of Seville.
Thank you. Was gonna say that. And they are rather good looking cars.
Awesome video! You really deserve more subscribers! I’m glad to be one of them! 👍
I owned a Cimarron D'Oro, it was Black Cherry w/Gold, was a decent car, let down by the 4cyl engine, the interior was really nice. but it sometimes was scary to drive it, it had a real hard time with freeway on ramp's/merging into traffic. You could floor the gas but not much happened other than noise.
harleyguyinmilw I had an 82 Seville. Freeway merging was a tightening experience. No power. From a stop the torque was good. But while at speed to accelerate the pace was turtle like
Delightful video! Those what could have been designs are truly fantastic. I would not mind a late model with a V 6 though. Well done video!
I had owned a number of used imports over the years, when a friend's parents bought one of the first Cimarrons. So the 'Cavalier' styling really didn't bother me, and the Cimarron did have a really nice interior. But that noisy, gutless, carbed 1.8, coupled to a four-speed manual with economy gearing made that car a chore to drive. Usually, that engine was either surging or stalling, especially at stop-lights, where the four-speed was like a five-speed with no first gear. It required way too much revving or clutch-slipping to get that car moving without killing the engine! However, the final straw for my friend's folks was, when they had problems that required going back to the local Cadillac dealer, they were treated like dirt. They replaced it with a Subaru, and never looked back!
I believe if Cadillac had built it from the start with the 2.0, and offered a proper 5-speed, things might have turned out much better. I drove a number of the later Cavaliers and other 'J' cars over the years, and the 2.0, while no hot-rod, had superb driveability, even with the automatic. Though the trim and interiors weren't always first-class, I felt the fuel-injected 'J' cars were the first American cars to be really competitive with the imports.
Happy Motoring, Mark D.
What an amazing mini documentary. Very well thought out. Especially... the ending. Well done you. I hope it gets at least ... a thousand views. Thanks for the video. (Btw. I am the 999th viewer).
Sorry.... “Commenters” ... (not views)
At the end, the "What COULD have been" sketches were remarkable!
Still, the main thing that doomed it from the start - was that DISMAL 1.8L Engine! As stated, starting with the 2.8 V6 would have been very different...
Love a 2.8. had one in a 88 GT fiero. They should have put that in everything in the early 80s
@@dougc190 I agree it was a good, stout little Motor....
But it SUCKED in the Camaro and 4X4 S-10! 😲😖
In the smaller FWD Cars, it was fun!
The two biggest downfalls of the Cimarron were the price tag, and false expectations. Yes, it certainly could have been better. But that same car with a smaller price tag, and maybe a Buick or Oldsmobile name plate may have done better. And it was marketed poorly. It should not have been marketed as a BMW beater, because it wasn't. But it was nice step above standard American compacts of the day. The last few years of the vehicle actually weren't all that bad.
I had one, i think it was an 84. The little 4cyl wasnt powerful but easy to work on. Interior was very nice and had so many features. Any way you look at it the vehicle was just a REALLY nice chevy cavalier.
By the mid 80s, just about all the Europeans were competing with better platforms, to include, Saab, Volvo, Rover even Puegot. The only possible exception was Renault who was building crap for AMC.
Dear lord, how embarrassing for Cadillac and anyone who has ever owned an automobile. Shame on you GM.
I was 13 in 1983. I remember clearly sitting in a barbershop shop while a Cimarron ad was running on the TV in the shop. I featured “customer” testimonials of how they had compared to Audi and BMW and chosen the Cadillac. Yeah.....sure ya did. I was a kid, but even I could tell it looked just like a fancy Cavalier at twice the price. I loved the looks by 87’ - 88’ though. If I could find a v6 5speed....rare and worthless! My kind of car.
I'm the same age as you and I also remember me and all my friends laughing and saying "Who in his right fucking mind would pay Cadillac price for a Cavalier?" This is the mindset that Roger Smith pushed at GM. The man had. Not. A. Clue.
As most people know back then the Cadillac Cimarron was a dressed up Chevy Cavalier. But in today's time one could say they did bring it back but now it's called the Cadillac ATS. Which is a dressed-up Chevy Cruze.
ATS and Cruze are on totally different platforms and are completely unrelated, if anything, the ATS is a dressed-up, stretched Camaro.