Tbh she’s better in ultimate being that now she feels balanced and actually fun to play as rather than just an insta win character like in smash 4 which like you said gets boring which is absolutely a welcome change since then
She doesn't feel balanced and fun to play. She won't feel that way until her combos actually combo properly. She is mid tier competitively due to a bunch of band aid buffs she got over the years.
@@renatoramos8834I actually would disagree, she has fake touch of deaths that are actually a disguised CDI guessing game for the both players, a fake touch of death that’s balanced by her godawful neutral that loses to shield, a god awful neutral that’s balanced by her having a great disadvantage state…. I can go on man They really balanced her to an extreme specialist high tier that takes A LOT of skill to use
@@doctordice2doctordice210 She should have a combo height limit that makes it impossible for any touch of death untill she lands 3-4 combos first. She'd be balanced by having weak neutral and her combos always working but never killing until she lands 4-5 of them with her poor neutral..
As a Bayo player, she truly feels Top 5 if the opponent has minimal/no DI. If they don’t know how to properly fight her, it’s not uncommon for me to just zero to death my Round One three times in under a minute. The more experience you have fighting her, the worse she becomes (obviously). Solid high tier at worst imo just because of how damn flexible she is.
She’s had two new games since, there’s boatloads of new Bayonetta content that should be worked into Smash. Hell, you could honestly justify another full-blown character.
@@BorbMcGorbThey could add Jeanne give her the LiB moveset, buff witchtime by making it longer but stricter activation and buff the smash attacks by making it stronger on higher % enemies. Then add Bayo 3 with CmW moveset then at the end of her combos she can summon a wink slave by pressing shield. While the demon is on the screen she gets reduced clothes and recieves more damage. Or just add Viola with the same concept.
I want her to work like she is supposed to: Inescapable combos. Just put a height and damage cap to ensure she doesn't KO before a certain %, regardless of height and needs 4-5 combos to guarantee a kill
Yeah it absolutely is, apologies an oversight on my behalf. It's frame 2 on spotdodge and forward roll, and frame 3 on backwards roll for some reason. Thank you for pointing it out 🙏
Thanks for watching and hope you enjoyed! If you have any other characters you'd like me to cover, or any topics you'd like me to cover please let me know 🙏
Bayo strengths: High damage output Great movement options Cheese potential Fastest air dodge in the game Argument for best recovery/disadvantage state in the game Bayo weaknesses: Can often struggle to secure a stock Mediocre frame data Bad grab/throw game Light Mediocre neutral Combos can be escaped with SDI Synopsis: Nowhere near bad, but has too many flaws to be top 5
the other day i got 0 to death ladder comboed by a 3,000,000 gsp bayo 3 stocks in a row. i don't even suck that much at smash, i just happened to be playing a character with low gsp and found a suspiciously good bayo player down there
so as someone who plays Bayo, when i run in to campy players i just counter camp them and force them to come to me no matter how long it takes them. as for characters like Pyra/Mythra, Joker, Fox etc. i end up changing my playstyle depending on how they play. for example, im a very confident Dedede player and my main strengths are reads and punishes. Bayo has amazing tools that can do exactly that, and if you run in to me playing that way you'll likely see i'm not moving so much and taking it slow. however i did pick up Fox about a year ago too, and got really good on him and he's taught me a lot on how to be more aggressive, punish mistakes on the fly as opposed to making reads and actively look for kills. this has also transferred to how i play Bayo, and against Mythras i find myself just putting out fast hitboxes and putting the pressure on them, making me feel like im actively controlling the flow of battle. and if that doesn't workout i can always go back to playing excessively defensive, like i did before. and in rare cases i swap between those 2 playstyles against those super tryhards, and throw them off by conditioning them hard and early. and im happy to say the things i've learned between playing Dedede, Bayo and Fox has brought my enjoyment of Smash to newer heights. and opened my mind on the endless capabilities of what doing crashcourse, learn on the fly grinds on characters i've yet to fully learn can bring to my understanding of the game. character knowledge and fundamentals goes such a long way, and not everyone understands that
Bayonetta main here: if she had a spammable, good kill move (like DK or cloud bair), then maybe. Otherwise, no, but she’s definitely a matchup check. Also Edit: is she had Palutena/Byleth/Fox up air, then she’d actually have a strong case for best character since it’d basically turn her back into smash 4 Bayo
This is overhype. Bayo is better than she was at the launch of smash ultimate and is healthier for the game than she was in smash 4. Going as far as to call her “the top character” is a stretch and a half. If she’s ever going to be a top tier again, she would destroy the game. She fundamentally isn’t any different from her smash 4 iteration, she’s just a weaker shell of it. So if she was the actual top character she would be far more obviously strong, and this wouldn’t be a point of contention
bayo is definitely a lot better than most people think, shes just hard to play at top level, i think her most troubling matchups are indeed things like roy, pythra, diddy, but also pikachu, fox, and plant, if not for characters like that she would probably be in the top 3 but those matchups are very bad and they are very common top level picks
What’s the point in bringing up her smash 4 history knowing that her ult representations is wayyy different than her smash 4’s? 2 completely different character with vastly different strengths between the 2 with ult’s bayo being weaker. I don’t see why u bring up her smash 4 iteration, should’ve posted timestamps or something. We all know what smash 4 bayo was broken and I’m sure even the ones that didn’t even really play smash 4 know how much of a threat she was in 4
Ok, now talk about how Lucas is high tier just like Ness and just as good as him...cuz' he is and I hate that I never hear anyone say this. He's not better than Ness like he was in Smash 4 or Brawl. But, he's still as good as Ness and seeing him so much lower than Ness on every tier list hurts to see.
Hello friend, I have a friend who states that Lucas is, optimistically, a bottom 15 character. Could you please let me know the reasons you think this is not the case. Thanks! 😀👍
@@beedoof Up B being multihit and not disappearing like Ness, dair almost always being a guaranteed spike, zair having all the tech and combo options, the invincible up smash and up smash cancel and Lucas actually technically has more range than Ness in some areas like his ground game. Ness has an advantage in this game with his magnet combos and the yo-yo being able to edge guard and break shields, but, Lucas has just as amazing combos and a better recovery than Ness. U can't convince me Lucas ain't in the same tier as Ness. And, u can't convince me he wasn't better than Ness in Smash 4 and maybe Brawl.
I will never not say bayonetta was not the best character in smash 4. Bro ya'll are just bad at camping, your bad with bait punish, and you don't actually respect those playstyles when a player plays like that as much as you say you do. Also the fact that she was weak to grab, true combos and disjoints. Much like right now with steve and how we are slowly, but expectedly overcoming his ass, bayonetta was 1000% doable too. Your top players are just as much complainers and selfish bias pricks as the people they love to call randoms on twitter. Brawl - Ultimate side of the community are jokes.
@@deathangeleas2401 dude I love Bayo. And I was one of the first people saying she was sent straight to hell in the worst ways possible in Ultimate. But smash 4 Bayo was abysmally broken to the point where it’s not deniable. Every character was weak to grabs, true combos, and disjoints. She was the only character that could consistently net 0-deaths off a single whiff punish.
@@icebear6757 no they weren’t because if you people had the faintest damn clue of what you were talking about you’d know that there were a lot of characters like diddy, fox and cloud who can literally work around a true set up or other swordies and their disjoints or you could camp like with Rosalina, Marth and sonic. She had a really good recovery and zero to deaths, but didn’t have a consistent way to deal with characters like marth with his disjoints and mario and Fox with their combos at low percent and because these two had smaller bodies it was easier for them to SDI. Pikachu too, but Esam sucks compared to mkleo so who cares. You people thought always that these top players had a point and continue to think this because “well they’re the ones putting it all on the line, they’re the ones who have to perform, so who are you? A random, you don’t know shit” my guy 80% at the time and 95% today with the top 100 players DO NOT LAB THE GAMES, or they just play the game and don’t vod review or think about their play. They don’t know the game they just feel it out and so when they complain it’s because they are not putting in the work, not because there is no way to win. Takes at least two to three years for A COMMUNITY of any fighting game to decide that a new character has no counter play not a few months like the smash community does. And before it’s said NO smash is not an exception because it’s a platform fighter! Cause I swear you people will find anything to say “nah this some bs bruh let me be mad” bro stay mad bitch y’all suck forever across the series. Learn that your frustrations are not other people’s FUCKING problem.
“Hard buffed” is overselling it by quite a lot. Her average kill range is still abysmal, she has several bad matchups against some of the top characters in the game (Steve and Kazuya included), and has one of the worst neutrals in the entire game. The buffs she got were largely just to bring her from bottom 5 to *not* bottom 5 anymore. And also “Bayo players are infamous for downplaying her” in a video where a top Bayo player is calling her the best in the game? What a laughably stupid comment
5:24 Fun fact her aerial Bat withins is actually Frame 1, so its the fastest airdodge out of the entire cast.
Tbh she’s better in ultimate being that now she feels balanced and actually fun to play as rather than just an insta win character like in smash 4 which like you said gets boring which is absolutely a welcome change since then
Anything is better than her in Sm4sh 💀
She doesn't feel balanced and fun to play. She won't feel that way until her combos actually combo properly. She is mid tier competitively due to a bunch of band aid buffs she got over the years.
@@imSBF? Why bring up a 7 year old game. Every thing was broken in that game
@@renatoramos8834I actually would disagree, she has fake touch of deaths that are actually a disguised CDI guessing game for the both players, a fake touch of death that’s balanced by her godawful neutral that loses to shield, a god awful neutral that’s balanced by her having a great disadvantage state…. I can go on man
They really balanced her to an extreme specialist high tier that takes A LOT of skill to use
@@doctordice2doctordice210 She should have a combo height limit that makes it impossible for any touch of death untill she lands 3-4 combos first. She'd be balanced by having weak neutral and her combos always working but never killing until she lands 4-5 of them with her poor neutral..
As a Bayo player, she truly feels Top 5 if the opponent has minimal/no DI. If they don’t know how to properly fight her, it’s not uncommon for me to just zero to death my Round One three times in under a minute. The more experience you have fighting her, the worse she becomes (obviously). Solid high tier at worst imo just because of how damn flexible she is.
seeing bayo rise back up and do some crazy stuff again in ultimate gives me trauma flashbacks but also makes me happy in an evil sadistic way
5:31 I've never seen bloom popoff
Was his first major win so I don't blame him
I hope that in smash 6, she gets a rework to have her focus less on Arials and more on her actual lifeblood skillls from her games.
She’s had two new games since, there’s boatloads of new Bayonetta content that should be worked into Smash. Hell, you could honestly justify another full-blown character.
@@BorbMcGorbThey could add Jeanne give her the LiB moveset, buff witchtime by making it longer but stricter activation and buff the smash attacks by making it stronger on higher % enemies.
Then add Bayo 3 with CmW moveset then at the end of her combos she can summon a wink slave by pressing shield. While the demon is on the screen she gets reduced clothes and recieves more damage. Or just add Viola with the same concept.
I want her to work like she is supposed to: Inescapable combos. Just put a height and damage cap to ensure she doesn't KO before a certain %, regardless of height and needs 4-5 combos to guarantee a kill
5:24 bayo air dodges are actually frame 1 💀all of them too
Yeah it absolutely is, apologies an oversight on my behalf. It's frame 2 on spotdodge and forward roll, and frame 3 on backwards roll for some reason.
Thank you for pointing it out 🙏
Thanks for watching and hope you enjoyed! If you have any other characters you'd like me to cover, or any topics you'd like me to cover please let me know 🙏
Very well done video. Subscribed
Appreciate it! Thank you for subscribing!
Cracking vid Sam!
Appreciate it mate, thanks for watching :)
As a bayo main killing is the hard part jab is nice if you can read it or hit it into them sheidling
Amazing vid as always goat. V v engaging and a well researched dive into another rising star in the late ult metagame 🔥🔥🔥
Appreciate it man ty 💜
Where's the clip from at 5:24?
Bayo strengths:
High damage output
Great movement options
Cheese potential
Fastest air dodge in the game
Argument for best recovery/disadvantage state in the game
Bayo weaknesses:
Can often struggle to secure a stock
Mediocre frame data
Bad grab/throw game
Light
Mediocre neutral
Combos can be escaped with SDI
Synopsis:
Nowhere near bad, but has too many flaws to be top 5
the other day i got 0 to death ladder comboed by a 3,000,000 gsp bayo 3 stocks in a row. i don't even suck that much at smash, i just happened to be playing a character with low gsp and found a suspiciously good bayo player down there
5:24 is one of the most messed up things I've seen in this game
Her ftilt isnt a kill move till like 300 but it can combo into fair, which is a broken combo starter that can lead into kills.
so as someone who plays Bayo, when i run in to campy players i just counter camp them and force them to come to me no matter how long it takes them. as for characters like Pyra/Mythra, Joker, Fox etc. i end up changing my playstyle depending on how they play. for example, im a very confident Dedede player and my main strengths are reads and punishes. Bayo has amazing tools that can do exactly that, and if you run in to me playing that way you'll likely see i'm not moving so much and taking it slow. however i did pick up Fox about a year ago too, and got really good on him and he's taught me a lot on how to be more aggressive, punish mistakes on the fly as opposed to making reads and actively look for kills. this has also transferred to how i play Bayo, and against Mythras i find myself just putting out fast hitboxes and putting the pressure on them, making me feel like im actively controlling the flow of battle. and if that doesn't workout i can always go back to playing excessively defensive, like i did before. and in rare cases i swap between those 2 playstyles against those super tryhards, and throw them off by conditioning them hard and early. and im happy to say the things i've learned between playing Dedede, Bayo and Fox has brought my enjoyment of Smash to newer heights. and opened my mind on the endless capabilities of what doing crashcourse, learn on the fly grinds on characters i've yet to fully learn can bring to my understanding of the game. character knowledge and fundamentals goes such a long way, and not everyone understands that
1:38 I’m sorry, did I just see a duck hunt in a top 8? Is that the only time ever or something?
raito was the goat, he even did it at ult evo 2019
somehow forgot to mention she beats Steve
Bayonetta main here: if she had a spammable, good kill move (like DK or cloud bair), then maybe. Otherwise, no, but she’s definitely a matchup check.
Also Edit: is she had Palutena/Byleth/Fox up air, then she’d actually have a strong case for best character since it’d basically turn her back into smash 4 Bayo
Nice vid
NO.
but thanks for the interesting video anyway
thank you for watching!
big up sam
Yes
new sbf video lets go
Hopefully not as long till the next one 😉
I not care what anyone say, as she is just awful compared to her debut title on wii u.
Comparatively yes but on it's own nah at the VERY WORST I would say upper true mid tier at best lower high tier
Man... Sm4sh bayo
Hehe Corrin go brrrrrr 🐲
This is overhype. Bayo is better than she was at the launch of smash ultimate and is healthier for the game than she was in smash 4. Going as far as to call her “the top character” is a stretch and a half.
If she’s ever going to be a top tier again, she would destroy the game. She fundamentally isn’t any different from her smash 4 iteration, she’s just a weaker shell of it. So if she was the actual top character she would be far more obviously strong, and this wouldn’t be a point of contention
No, shes Top 20 tho
STEVE
bayo is definitely a lot better than most people think, shes just hard to play at top level, i think her most troubling matchups are indeed things like roy, pythra, diddy, but also pikachu, fox, and plant, if not for characters like that she would probably be in the top 3 but those matchups are very bad and they are very common top level picks
She also hates matchups where she has to approach. So she hates Steve. Kind of a hard one to ignore
@@pickcollins9910 didnt even feel the need to mention that its a given that steve is bettet than everyone by a mile
@@pickcollins9910 ??? Bayonetta has been proven several times to be quite viable against Steve actually. She has such good answers to minecart.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 oh wow she can sometimes beat one of his broken moves! surely that means bayo beats steve right guys???!!!
@@pickcollins9910 Bayo absolutely beats steve...
What’s the point in bringing up her smash 4 history knowing that her ult representations is wayyy different than her smash 4’s? 2 completely different character with vastly different strengths between the 2 with ult’s bayo being weaker. I don’t see why u bring up her smash 4 iteration, should’ve posted timestamps or something. We all know what smash 4 bayo was broken and I’m sure even the ones that didn’t even really play smash 4 know how much of a threat she was in 4
No
Ok, now talk about how Lucas is high tier just like Ness and just as good as him...cuz' he is and I hate that I never hear anyone say this. He's not better than Ness like he was in Smash 4 or Brawl. But, he's still as good as Ness and seeing him so much lower than Ness on every tier list hurts to see.
Hello friend, I have a friend who states that Lucas is, optimistically, a bottom 15 character. Could you please let me know the reasons you think this is not the case.
Thanks! 😀👍
@@beedoof Up B being multihit and not disappearing like Ness, dair almost always being a guaranteed spike, zair having all the tech and combo options, the invincible up smash and up smash cancel and Lucas actually technically has more range than Ness in some areas like his ground game. Ness has an advantage in this game with his magnet combos and the yo-yo being able to edge guard and break shields, but, Lucas has just as amazing combos and a better recovery than Ness. U can't convince me Lucas ain't in the same tier as Ness. And, u can't convince me he wasn't better than Ness in Smash 4 and maybe Brawl.
I’ve seen Bayonetta players say she goes even with Cloud but wow Bloom thinking Bayo beats Cloud, I can see it tho. Bayo is very very good.
Its just because theoretically one off stage interaction and cloud will be dead or at least 50/50 every single time hes offstage
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH no.
I will never not say bayonetta was not the best character in smash 4. Bro ya'll are just bad at camping, your bad with bait punish, and you don't actually respect those playstyles when a player plays like that as much as you say you do. Also the fact that she was weak to grab, true combos and disjoints. Much like right now with steve and how we are slowly, but expectedly overcoming his ass, bayonetta was 1000% doable too. Your top players are just as much complainers and selfish bias pricks as the people they love to call randoms on twitter. Brawl - Ultimate side of the community are jokes.
This is cap. I love Bayo but she was absurd in smash 4.
@@pickcollins9910 you like are the people I’m talking about literally
Every character is “weak” to true combos and disjoints what are you even saying 💀💀💀
@@deathangeleas2401 dude I love Bayo. And I was one of the first people saying she was sent straight to hell in the worst ways possible in Ultimate. But smash 4 Bayo was abysmally broken to the point where it’s not deniable.
Every character was weak to grabs, true combos, and disjoints. She was the only character that could consistently net 0-deaths off a single whiff punish.
@@icebear6757 no they weren’t because if you people had the faintest damn clue of what you were talking about you’d know that there were a lot of characters like diddy, fox and cloud who can literally work around a true set up or other swordies and their disjoints or you could camp like with Rosalina, Marth and sonic. She had a really good recovery and zero to deaths, but didn’t have a consistent way to deal with characters like marth with his disjoints and mario and Fox with their combos at low percent and because these two had smaller bodies it was easier for them to SDI. Pikachu too, but Esam sucks compared to mkleo so who cares.
You people thought always that these top players had a point and continue to think this because “well they’re the ones putting it all on the line, they’re the ones who have to perform, so who are you? A random, you don’t know shit” my guy 80% at the time and 95% today with the top 100 players DO NOT LAB THE GAMES, or they just play the game and don’t vod review or think about their play. They don’t know the game they just feel it out and so when they complain it’s because they are not putting in the work, not because there is no way to win.
Takes at least two to three years for A COMMUNITY of any fighting game to decide that a new character has no counter play not a few months like the smash community does. And before it’s said NO smash is not an exception because it’s a platform fighter! Cause I swear you people will find anything to say “nah this some bs bruh let me be mad” bro stay mad bitch y’all suck forever across the series. Learn that your frustrations are not other people’s FUCKING problem.
She is the most annoying character, she has too much advantage moves
Mewtwo has to play 4D chess to space his bair without it losing to a move and Bayo gets to do her auto combo off of spam
@@minixlemonadeif ur getting combod by a Bayo who spams the same move in Ult you definitely deserved it
*Sonic and Min Min have entered chat*
She’s not broken but bayo players are infamous for downplaying her constantly despite being hard buffed and omega privileged
“Hard buffed” is overselling it by quite a lot. Her average kill range is still abysmal, she has several bad matchups against some of the top characters in the game (Steve and Kazuya included), and has one of the worst neutrals in the entire game. The buffs she got were largely just to bring her from bottom 5 to *not* bottom 5 anymore.
And also “Bayo players are infamous for downplaying her” in a video where a top Bayo player is calling her the best in the game? What a laughably stupid comment
It's one of the cringiest character for sure
short answer: hell no😂
No