I can see why he loves and studies the history. I absolutely fell in love with the big book and love looking at the history of AA. It's just so interesting. Well done for your work and for sharing what you've found out. Have just finished reading writing the big book.
I thoroughly enjoy Ernie. The only place my experience differs is alcoholics having to go to Meetings. My personal experience is that I went in and out of alcoholic anonymous several times and when I finally didget sober I have Never Ever had to go to an alcoholic anonymous meeting. Because I always wanted to go to alcoholics anonymous meeting,. With a little over 20 years of sobriety meetings, have become a hobby. With the meeting guide app I catch meetings all over for the sheer pleasure. Have a peaceful 👼 and content day ☺️
We also continue going to meetings to 'be of support' to the newcomer - the desperate still suffering alcoholic. In turn they serve as a reminder of where we came from, and where we'd go back to if we pick up a drink 🙏
Clearly the previous comments miss the mark. Kurtz's work is insightful, and full of erudition. He IS AA's historian. Perhaps the commenters dislike AA.
@@blancemoore Yes it was because they were human with clay feet Just as I have even after all these years I still full short As it says in the 12x12 the only step I’ve done to perfection is step 1
I've heard Bill, Bob, Ebby , Lois speak, by way of recordings, their descriptions of the beginning ( plus many many other early members)...AND, have read the books, AA COMES OF AGE, DR. BOB AND THE GOOD OLD-TIMERS, AND PASS IT ON...I don't need the observations of the history from AN OUTSIDER..(with all due respect)... ACTUALLY THE TRUE BEGINNING OF WHAT BECAME AA, BEGAN WHEN EBBY VISITED BILL AT BILL AND LOIS'S HOME...🙏✌️
The ideas and principles in AA work. People who can't or won't adhere to such principles, they fail to recover. Rabies medicine works for those who: 1) have rabies 2) want to get help 3) adhere to the therapy for that specific disease The same is true for alcoholism and AA. If you have the disease of alcoholism, but you don't want to get help, or you can't or won't adhere to the therapy appropriate for such disease, you will die from it. That doesn't mean AA principles don't work. There's millions of individuals around the world, like me, who are living proof that the AA program works for what it is intended.
Pure ignorance is what you both speak of. There are reasons why it's anonymous. I am a member. Trust me, it works. If you work it the right way. Stop listening to false rumors. If you had all the facts and information you'd understand. It's way too much to write on here. I am a member. I am sober and living a life that is filled with more peace of mind than I have ever had before. There is a saying we have, and it is " you don't know what you don't know until you know it." Since you both don't know a lot about this program. You don't know that you don't know what you're talking about.
@@FAITHFULANDPROUD2GOD Maybe you would be credible if you didn't say the same things and same cliches and same ideas as every other AA member. Have an independent thought and independent sentence strung together and then maybe skeptics might listen.
@@jasonmanning4288 Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. For those that are fearless and thorough from the very start the success rate is 97.23%. We leave a bit of wiggle room because there are those who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. They are not at fault, they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty.
Excuse me, but nobody told me go to AA. I knew Id a drink problem. I rang GSO and got the address znd time of a meeting. I arrived and half way thru hour, i ssid i feel rescued. Unfortunately i relapsed 3 weeks later and struggled many years to get just 2 years sober.
Because you didn't work the steps. Meetings are not enough. They are just the fellowship. The program is the steps. The only way to become and stay sober is through the steps. To continue to do steps 10 through 12 daily. How you do the steps is by having a sponsor who has been through the steps and is not only knowledgeable on the big book but is living it.
Culture does play a role in AA groups. Peoples personalities are affected by the culture they are in. For instance if you are in an AA group in the Southern States and being that's"The Bible Belt" you have to expect most of those groups are going to have members of that persuasion and background. It's unavoidable. It's going to show up at some point in the meeting. Some will temper their statements during discussion to leave religion out in support of AA avoidance recommendations but others will not. They'll just open their mouths and let it fly. Like birds of a feather some groups will even form with its membership mainly composed of those who don't want to temper their religious beliefs in AA meetings. You need to stay aware of these things so if you end up in a meeting of one of these groups you aren't completely floored by it. That's why you have to be a student of AA. You can't leave it to chance. You need to know the 12 Traditions so you'll know when you are and when you aren't in a group that's adhering to them. No group is perfect but some strive to be in harmony with AA recommendations more so then others do. This way you pick a home group or visit a different group that is well founded ,and not off the wall.
The very conception of AA DID happen in the Oxford Group. BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT. Dr Bob confessed his alcoholism first and foremost in his Oxford meeting BECAUSE of the tenants of Oxford. Henrietta Seiberling brought him to the point of confession. Sam Shoemaker (Oxford Movement) helped Bill W get sober first. This man speaking, sorry to say, is WAY off. I educate about AA for a living.
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I can see why he loves and studies the history. I absolutely fell in love with the big book and love looking at the history of AA. It's just so interesting. Well done for your work and for sharing what you've found out. Have just finished reading writing the big book.
I thoroughly enjoy Ernie. The only place my experience differs is alcoholics having to go to Meetings.
My personal experience is that I went in and out of alcoholic anonymous several times and when I finally didget sober I have Never Ever had to go to an alcoholic anonymous meeting. Because I always wanted to go to alcoholics anonymous meeting,. With a little over 20 years of sobriety meetings, have become a hobby. With the meeting guide app I catch meetings all over for the sheer pleasure. Have a peaceful 👼 and content day ☺️
Agree with this so much, 40 years here
Por eso bebes cada rato.
We also continue going to meetings to 'be of support' to the newcomer - the desperate still suffering alcoholic. In turn they serve as a reminder of where we came from, and where we'd go back to if we pick up a drink 🙏
I've been reading this guy for twenty years....He is a treasure.
Clearly the previous comments miss the mark. Kurtz's work is insightful, and full of erudition. He IS AA's historian. Perhaps the commenters dislike AA.
His book Spirituality of Imperfection mentions Bill’s Clay Feet
Alanon old timer, here... ...gr8 overview... thanks Ernie...
Kurtz started me on an inward path on the history of recovery;can't say enough about his protégé Bill White either.
56 years sober only thing I’ve found wrong with AA is there’s Humans in it
The Humans fail not the program
56 yearz helps understand we should have been taught on basic school lau tai chi
Question is: Would you have gotten it without those same humans?
@@blancemoore Yes it was because they were human with clay feet
Just as I have even after all these years I still full short
As it says in the 12x12 the only step I’ve done to perfection is step 1
The humans fail, not the program? Sounds like religon to me
Amazing mind and the best of humanity
Wow! What you called Bill Wilsons negative traits made me like him!!
Marvelous!
What do they say in AA about coincidences?
there's no such thing
Its a Godincidence
Just that there is no such thing
Much BS.
It's the Higher Power (God for some) working in your life. Pay attention.
Great book. Seems like a great guy, too. Thanks for posting.
I've heard Bill, Bob, Ebby , Lois speak, by way of recordings, their descriptions of the beginning ( plus many many other early members)...AND, have read the books, AA COMES OF AGE, DR. BOB AND THE GOOD OLD-TIMERS, AND PASS IT ON...I don't need the observations of the history from AN OUTSIDER..(with all due respect)... ACTUALLY THE TRUE BEGINNING OF WHAT BECAME AA, BEGAN WHEN EBBY VISITED BILL AT BILL AND LOIS'S HOME...🙏✌️
Great insight!
His first sentence says it all.
Great man but sadly AA doesn’t work, for the majority, the numbers reflect this. Thankfully there’s so many other options now.
The ideas and principles in AA work.
People who can't or won't adhere to such principles, they fail to recover.
Rabies medicine works for those who:
1) have rabies
2) want to get help
3) adhere to the therapy for that specific disease
The same is true for alcoholism and AA. If you have the disease of alcoholism, but you don't want to get help, or you can't or won't adhere to the therapy appropriate for such disease, you will die from it. That doesn't mean AA principles don't work.
There's millions of individuals around the world, like me, who are living proof that the AA program works for what it is intended.
What are they and their success rates, thats information a lot of people need to know. No reasin to keep it a secret.
Pure ignorance is what you both speak of. There are reasons why it's anonymous. I am a member. Trust me, it works. If you work it the right way. Stop listening to false rumors. If you had all the facts and information you'd understand. It's way too much to write on here. I am a member. I am sober and living a life that is filled with more peace of mind than I have ever had before. There is a saying we have, and it is " you don't know what you don't know until you know it." Since you both don't know a lot about this program. You don't know that you don't know what you're talking about.
@@FAITHFULANDPROUD2GOD Maybe you would be credible if you didn't say the same things and same cliches and same ideas as every other AA member. Have an independent thought and independent sentence strung together and then maybe skeptics might listen.
@@jasonmanning4288 Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.
For those that are fearless and thorough from the very start the success rate is 97.23%. We leave a bit of wiggle room because there are those who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. They are not at fault, they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty.
Excuse me, but nobody told me go to AA. I knew Id a drink problem. I rang GSO and got the address znd time of a meeting. I arrived and half way thru hour, i ssid i feel rescued. Unfortunately i relapsed 3 weeks later and struggled many years to get just 2 years sober.
Because you didn't work the steps. Meetings are not enough. They are just the fellowship. The program is the steps. The only way to become and stay sober is through the steps. To continue to do steps 10 through 12 daily. How you do the steps is by having a sponsor who has been through the steps and is not only knowledgeable on the big book but is living it.
Someone get this guy a drink of water.
Culture does play a role in AA groups. Peoples personalities are affected by the culture they are in. For instance if you are in an AA group in the Southern States and being that's"The Bible Belt" you have to expect most of those groups are going to have members of that persuasion and background. It's unavoidable. It's going to show up at some point in the meeting. Some will temper their statements during discussion to leave religion out in support of AA avoidance recommendations but others will not. They'll just open their mouths and let it fly. Like birds of a feather some groups will even form with its membership mainly composed of those who don't want to temper their religious beliefs in AA meetings. You need to stay aware of these things so if you end up in a meeting of one of these groups you aren't completely floored by it. That's why you have to be a student of AA. You can't leave it to chance. You need to know the 12 Traditions so you'll know when you are and when you aren't in a group that's adhering to them. No group is perfect but some strive to be in harmony with AA recommendations more so then others do. This way you pick a home group or visit a different group that is well founded ,and not off the wall.
I am studying the Oxford Group. So....did he just say the Oxford Group influence is ficticious?
The very conception of AA DID happen in the Oxford Group. BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT. Dr Bob confessed his alcoholism first and foremost in his Oxford meeting BECAUSE of the tenants of Oxford. Henrietta Seiberling brought him to the point of confession. Sam Shoemaker (Oxford Movement) helped Bill W get sober first. This man speaking, sorry to say, is WAY off. I educate about AA for a living.
Marty Mann relapsed later as did Ebby and im not sure what happened Roland Hazard who went to see Carl Jung.
The "desire"for booze just left me at Rehab.
I have come to believe that it was God did it.
since I had become completely hopeless.
We are not a glum lot.
WRONG-read Jung,Ernie....
Aa fanboy sickophant!!!
Bitterness, anger and resentment are poison, brother.