Based on your need for an entire new engine, I'm guessing very high IATs and high boost caused one or more piston ring gaps to close up and shatter one or more pistons. Thinking why it happened on the way home was because the high speeds on the racetrack provided enough airflow through the intercooler to keep it cool. Once you slowed down, hit some stop and go traffic, and heat soaking on the backroads with less airflow through the intercooler made everything get nice and hot. One full power pull later.... And pop goes the weasel. I'm far from an expert in any field and not even an Ecoboost owner, but I play around with turbo stuff on occasion. I've driven one of these 2.3 Ecoboosts in a new bronco and absolutely loved it. And of course thank you for the video! I hope the new 2.3 treats you well! Maybe a cool video in the future could be the history of Ford's 4 cylinders from the Kent, Pinto, Lima, SVO, and Ecoboost 🤔
@@wesleypellettieri The Duratec (at least the 2.0 - 2.5) is more of a Mazda engine than a Ford engine. The original 2.0 Ecoboost was built around this block, and is generally considered to be the best. After the Ford/Mazda split and the re-design of the block with an open deck, reliability went down significantly for a number of years before Ford addressed the issue.
You sound convincing but I know nothing about it. All I had imagined was that there was a need to accelerate and that a fuel rich mixture went into the cylinders and suddenly cooled the metal. (Piston rings could be affected.)
My mate had a Mustang with one of these engines in. To be fair he thrashed that car hard every day and racked up 140,000 miles and the engine was one of the few things that didn't break or wear out or fall apart or develop a problem.
As a mechanic I would tell people that plastic is a service item. If it’s plastic and more than 5 years old, you should be aware that some will be on the bill , and don’t ask for an estimate if you don’t want to be quoted for all the “ junk “
@@thedeathwobblechannel6539 but I had old cars that had tubes that were welded to each other and brackets, the old Mercedes Benz 190 d from 1965 was my second car. It got 30+ was auto transmission and ac . Sold it for half what I paid and it was approaching 600,000 miles and had major rust issues. Should’ve never sold it…..
In 1967, I managed, without prior experience, to advance the timing on my Formula 'S' Barracuda a few degrees - enough to make, perhaps, a 10th of a second difference in ET at the drag strip. It's the only engine mod I ever tried, and it was successful. Greg and the Ecoboost are way over my head, and my street and drag racing days are very much in the rear-view mirror, so my interest in this is purely academic.
I’d change your order to a regular non-powerboost 3.5 Ecoboost. The Powerboost is very complicated, and has a laundry list of issues. Do some research online about that system
@ I have, nothing stands out as common as the cam phasers on the 1st gen’s. I have a friend with the PB with 200k+ miles trouble free and he dogs his and tows weekly. I absolutely need a hybrid for rush hour city traffic so it works for me. I’m not worried about
Месяц назад+1
Excellent video! I have a bronco with this motor, and learned a lot.
I am mostly interested in engines that are easy to fix ,water pumps, alternators, timing parts, and will run long distances at 65 mph I have an escort with 397000 mile that runs great but likes to go 60 or less. guess the 4.6 Ford is the one for me. good luck with your projects.and thanks for the videos , very informative content. I think most good engines will run at 55 mph for years. racing anything can happen as you are operating outside of normal use..
I think that something HPFP related that caused a lean condition and catastrophic overtemp is the most likely cause in this scenario, BUT it's already been guessed, so: It was a failure of a cylinder wall due to the open-deck design, and you throwing 400+ hp at it was just too much. Running it hard at the track triggered some sort of minor coolant leak, but it only became an issue once everything had a chance to heat cycle before the drive home.
Here's my official guess: tune was on the ragged edge of going lean; however, with the denser air at night requiring more fuel than the fuel system could deliver at WOT and full boost, a catastrophic detonation event occurred destroying the engine.
I have a ‘15 EB PP 6A that I bought new. I sold it to my son in ‘17, and bought it back last year (He bought a Bronco). Now it’s a dedicated track car (Shelby Club and AutoX). My first outing I saw high oil temps and inlet temperatures. I replaced the weak intercooler with a larger unit and added an oil cooler (plus hood vents). Last time out, the ecu did not cut throttle. I replaced the low pressure fuel sensor, added a simple open air blow off, and has had an oil separator since new. The car has always been well taken care of in terms of maintenance. All in all I really like the 2.3 EB they are efficient and reliable stock (93 octane tune). It’s lighter on the nose than the Coyote and offers excellent torque. You seem to really know these engine, any advice would be welcome.
I like the 2.3 EcoBoost as well and I think it's a great engine in the Mustang. My suggestion is pretty much what you have already done, along with a tuned ECU or a very mild piggyback.
@ Your explanation of how the ecu estimates oil temp as the “gauge” does not give a number, was revealing. Unlike the trans temp gauge, which does. My fear was high trans (automatic) temps. To my surprise, that has not been the case. When I get back to a long track like Road America, It will be interesting to see if throttle is pulled when it assumes high engine oil temps…
Okay your failure question is because the planets were not aligned properly. In David vizzard is like Clapton is to guitars. David absolutely knows what he's talking about.
Greg, I just want a car in 2024 with a 200,000 mile engine just running around town with two or more yearly long trips. 90% of USA users. That used to be Toyota products, I have a 120,000 mile V6 Ford in a 2011 Escape and an 80,000 mile Jeep Overlander , both performing well.
If I had to guess, what with this being an Ecoboost...head gasket failure caused by the open-deck design letting the cylinders flex and move in relation to the head, and wearing out the gasket in between as it rubs back and forth. Usually not something that happens immediately, which could explain why it took a day at the track and part of the ride home for it to manifest entirely.
Greg, really enjoy your vids. I’m a patreon subscriber and I never received any notifications over there. I just stumbled across this video today. Just curious. Don’t want to miss anything.
Thanks, I didn't put it up on Patreon because so few people there ask for automotive videos, but now that you mentioned it, I'll do that for the next one.
15:41 Dave Vizard said something in one of his videos about sending you guys one of his flow-ported turbos for testing. Is that something which ever happened?
Yes, the Vizard turbo mod was a part of package. However I don't want to give the impression that it was related to or the cause of the problem, it wasn't.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles Oh, I didn't think for a second his modded turbo was in any way related here. This was a totally unrelated question. IIRC he claimed his mods could add 40hp, and I was curious if you verified this on the dyno.
"...now I'm not an engineer..." - Greg. I disagree. I worked on a1982 Nissan/Datsun 210 Wagon (the Sunny in England) for 8 years to keep my friend's 210 rolling - we had to pool our resources just to buy a tire. I have a gift for logistics but I am certainly NOT a natural engineer. Keeping my road bicycle rolling for 35 years was incredibly challenging. Being poor meant that I built and utilized bicycle tools that I couldn't afford to buy. One does what one has to. I made a few mistakes on that Nissan/Datsun but I kept it going. I do not enjoy fixing cars and bikes. I once watched a master (Italian) bicycle guy working on a bike and I witnessed pure magic. I prefer being a guitar player. The comments are a riot.
FWIW, the current thinking of EGR has very little to do with emissions and a lot more to do with fuel economy. There are multiple things where EGR helps- first it allows for better spark thanks to EGR moving the knock limit (which is a big deal for engines running 87 octane fuel), and second, the dilution allows for more open throttle lowering the pumping losses. For sure, there isn't much EGR when power demand is for peak power over economy. Emissions control have come a long, long way where fuel is controlled so well that you can manipulate the chemistry in the catalyst to optimize the conversion. So far, in fact, that we now know that sometimes we are making NOx in the catalyst due to NH3 passing over an oxidized catalyst (which is kind of a trick to get into).
OMG about time! finally i can relax with a Greg Video on a flawed engine I'm gonna say the head gasket popped between cylinders 3/4 as a result of very mild detonation over the course of the day. I know these ford 2.3's can't be fuelled enough for high power on the stock DI system.
So did the engine fail as you pulled out to pass? If so, then it may have gotten into what we called "mega knock" which was an odd uncontrollable low speed knock that we got in DI engines. The best theory we came up with was some residual particulates stuck around in the combustion chamber causing a hot spot. But the mega knock would destroy a piston in really short order. Lots of calibration time was spent to avoid that, and given the manipulation that an aftermarket calibration would do, it seems quite possible that you got back into it.
@@paulfrantizek102 PFDI doesn't really fix the mega knock, as it's a key area where DI is used to, ironically, move the knock limit. That's why it's so confusing. The PFI was added back for power first, and then emissions second. Power because it's cheaper than trying to make a bigger DI pump.
Any new news on cleaning the intake valves on 2.3 liter Ford ecoboost Mustang engines? There's a lot of information now (in DEC 2024) that using spray cleaners into the intake can damage or destroy the turbo.
Ok, my guess: Because of the turbo being very close to the block and because this engine is an open deck design it overheated likely at the passenger side where it was hotter than on the driver's. Then the block deformed a little bit and one last push resulted in crankshaft bearings welding-up with all the resulting damage.
Curious how the 2.3 L EcoBoost in the Mustang is different from the 2.0 L EcoBoost engine in the Focus ST? Mine has never been mosified and I've never had any issues with my 2015.
This is a fairly random guess. I think the oil got too hot from the day at the track, you stated that the ECU is pretty good at estimating oil temperature but not over sustained times. The oil cools down slower than the coolant and other sensors, so the ECU thought the oil was cooler than it was on the drive home, when you tried to pass on the highway, the turbo spun too fast for the thin oil, blowing up the turbo. I was also thinking that hot oil and not enough pressure could cause a spun rod bearing, but I'll stick with the turbo blowing up.
That's ingenious, but in the video Greg was pretty laid back and unworried about the lack of an oil temperature sensor. If the engine had gone bang as a result of miscalculated oil temperature I think he would have been spitting chips.
knock sensor failed and allowed #2 piston to overheat and bent the rod which escaped out the side of the block. (this happened on another ford engine of recent make)
Looking at this from a 2.7 F150 point of view. Either a cylinder head gasket failure due to lifting the head (particular from the 2.3) or a twisted rod failure (I have seen on 2.7's).
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles I may have had the same thing happen in the past :P But I did think you left a clue when talking about messing with wastegate shims.
What are you using for a ECU, Stock, halltech, LINC? Good to see a Garrett from the factory. I have a G25 660 and Injector Dynamic 1050cc injectors on my 1JZ gte, so far it has been a stellar set up. Got to watch those VVT solenoids on those Eco Boosts. Any plans to go to E-85 or VP-C85?
Wastegate pressure wasn't calibrated correctly releasing the accelerator pedal after full boost caused an issue but I'm a nobody with a Mazda 3 speed so😅
215,000 miles on our 2015 Mustang. Just had to replace the clutch and pressure plate. Glad it lasted that long, parts are costly. Can confirm the clean the connector issue. After new short block and head, daughter's Fusion coded for a new turbo, but only when it rained. Lol.
The 1.6 Mini engine is an example of failure (2nd gen new mini)- sure it's chain driven but it runs on plastic chain tensioners - what could go wrong? 😂
i would guess from experience that your ecoboost failed from over compression / overtorque pushing the heads off the engine. at least that's what 3.5l do when you push 660 ft-lbs
I'm not sure why you think it had something to do with peak horsepower but to answer your question, I will tell all about the mods to the motor and show exactly what happened.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles It is fairly well established where stock engine internals will start failing as power is increased. Now if you know you're safe there, and you know the source of the problem is unrelated, you need only acknowledge this. Assuming that is the case, I'm guessing your comments about connector reliability and dongles to fudge the output of the sensors were the root cause of the problem here. That fed the ECU faulty data, and resulted in incorrect engine control. Garbage in, Garbage out.
More on why I asked if you checked your oil level before leaving the track: After 5 years of 1/4 mile competition, I've only had one issue with my 2018 Ecoboost Mustang and that is, motor oil loss, due to higher than stock combustion chamber pressure, resulting in higher than desired crankcase pressure, plus an engine ventilation system with limitations. This is not a FORD issue, it is a modification issue. Under normal condition, the factory PCV system works fine. However, with the modifications, I have made to my stock long block motor, the results have been a loss of motor oil, with as much as 2 ounces per 1/4 mile pull. Motor oil is important to engine lubrication, as well as assisting with heat transfer. Regardless of what failed in your motor, is what caused the failure. Will you be sharing your data logs?
I'm always happy to see you in the comments. I will be sharing photos and a full explanation of the damage. I don't plan to put up data logs as that will turn viewers away.
Hey Greg I’m getting ready to rebuild my 1984 SVO 2.3L; I want to extract as much HP I can from the original platform but still keep it streetable on 93 octane What do you suggest? John H from AMF OAK
I suggest forged pistons and rods, good head bolts or studs, a more modern turbo and importantly a big front mounted intercooler. You really need to stay away from the underhood top mounted intercooler if possible.
I want to do a hybrid turbo and slightly larger injectors which will require me to trash the dual fuel pump configuration and just go with a bigger pump. The last item would be a 3 inch down pipe hooked up to a custom header I figure I can get 250hp on 93 gas above the original 175hp
Yup, 250hp for that engine is no problem. If I were you I would send the turbo over to Gpop shop and have them upgrade it. They know me there and they do excellent work. A 3 inch downpipe will help and I would probably convert it to a more modern injection and ignition system.
Those electrical connectors and wiring look so flimsy with lack of good shielding. Bearing in mind all the heat stress and primary vibration so close to or mounted on the engine itself.
@ Makes sense. I’m in the UK and it’s a diesel market mostly, especially bigger engines. Diesel went for vg early, probably because to shape the boost. The old ones before vg were super laggy.
I don't see here anything indicating that the right answer was reached, so I will posit one last possible failure. That would be a failed wastegate (stuck closed) and overboosted the engine, once again leading to insufficient fuel and a detonation related failure due to a lean condition or inadequate octane based on the dynamic pressure in the cylinder. This could result in a hydrolocking a cylinder from a headgasket failure, a ring land failure, a rod failure, or even a hole in a piston subsequent to the detonation.
I'm subscribed to quite a few garage based RUclips channels and there seems to be a broad consensus among repair shop owners that Ford Eco-boost engines, especially the V6s, are notoriouisly unreliable. Certainly you must be aware of that undercurrent. What are your comments? Why do you believe everyone in the repair business is trashing the Ecobost V6? Valid or invalid? How is the I-4 different. Is there any heritage in the I-4 Ecobost connected to the Miata I-4 that was used jointly by Ford and Mazda durring their long hook-up? One more question if you will. The Mazda (built in Hiroshima) 3.7 V6 in my 2012 CX9 is identical to the Ford V6 put in the Edge of that year. Since the engines are identicel, why is the Mazda version so much more reliable that the Ford version? (an opinion I recieved from my independant mechanic as well as my Mazda Dealer). Better quality control in Hiroshima? Something else?
I don't have an EcoBoost V6. I strongly prefer the 2.3 because of the timing chain and because it's easier to work on. The Mazda vs. Ford topic is too complex for the comment section. Especially as the Ford 2.3s have been built in Spain, Mexico, and Ohio and breaking them down in terms of reliability between production locations is a problem.
Good question. I wasn't driving but I do know that the car was in automatic mode, not being manually shifted so it kicked down into a passing gear and upshifted correctly and on schedule. I'll release the next video sooner than planned, probably this weekend.
I thought you were going to say through the center of the flywheel is the 30mm cannon. Ford engineers love to fire through the spinner.
Deeply knowledgeable joke
That's only available on the Inverted Inline Ecoboost.
Based on your need for an entire new engine, I'm guessing very high IATs and high boost caused one or more piston ring gaps to close up and shatter one or more pistons.
Thinking why it happened on the way home was because the high speeds on the racetrack provided enough airflow through the intercooler to keep it cool. Once you slowed down, hit some stop and go traffic, and heat soaking on the backroads with less airflow through the intercooler made everything get nice and hot. One full power pull later.... And pop goes the weasel.
I'm far from an expert in any field and not even an Ecoboost owner, but I play around with turbo stuff on occasion. I've driven one of these 2.3 Ecoboosts in a new bronco and absolutely loved it.
And of course thank you for the video! I hope the new 2.3 treats you well! Maybe a cool video in the future could be the history of Ford's 4 cylinders from the Kent, Pinto, Lima, SVO, and Ecoboost 🤔
You left the Duratec off the list.
@@wesleypellettieri The Duratec (at least the 2.0 - 2.5) is more of a Mazda engine than a Ford engine. The original 2.0 Ecoboost was built around this block, and is generally considered to be the best. After the Ford/Mazda split and the re-design of the block with an open deck, reliability went down significantly for a number of years before Ford addressed the issue.
Sigma too
You sound convincing but I know nothing about it. All I had imagined was that there was a need to accelerate and that a fuel rich mixture went into the cylinders and suddenly cooled the metal.
(Piston rings could be affected.)
My mate had a Mustang with one of these engines in. To be fair he thrashed that car hard every day and racked up 140,000 miles and the engine was one of the few things that didn't break or wear out or fall apart or develop a problem.
I have been watching your aviation related videos so long, I forgot the "& automobiles" 😂😂😂
As a long time Tulsan, who has also been to Hallett, it’s great to see this gem of a track getting some attention. Great videos, Greg!
As a mechanic I would tell people that plastic is a service item. If it’s plastic and more than 5 years old, you should be aware that some will be on the bill , and don’t ask for an estimate if you don’t want to be quoted for all the “ junk “
I call everybody's cars and parts junk. It's partly sarcasm partly an insult you should know this by now
@@thedeathwobblechannel6539 but I had old cars that had tubes that were welded to each other and brackets, the old Mercedes Benz 190 d from 1965 was my second car. It got 30+ was auto transmission and ac . Sold it for half what I paid and it was approaching 600,000 miles and had major rust issues. Should’ve never sold it…..
Greetings! I'm Greg too. I just watched your Kommandogerat video and it was awesome. Have a great one!
In 1967, I managed, without prior experience, to advance the timing on my Formula 'S' Barracuda a few degrees - enough to make, perhaps, a 10th of a second difference in ET at the drag strip. It's the only engine mod I ever tried, and it was successful. Greg and the Ecoboost are way over my head, and my street and drag racing days are very much in the rear-view mirror, so my interest in this is purely academic.
This is such a legit video on all ecoboost motors
Thanks.
Many thanks for this informative video.i used to work on my cars back in the ‘60s. Really interesting on where the engine technology has gone.
I just ordered a 3.5L EcoBoost in the hybrid Powerboost F-150 package and I’m excited
I’d change your order to a regular non-powerboost 3.5 Ecoboost. The Powerboost is very complicated, and has a laundry list of issues. Do some research online about that system
@ I have, nothing stands out as common as the cam phasers on the 1st gen’s. I have a friend with the PB with 200k+ miles trouble free and he dogs his and tows weekly. I absolutely need a hybrid for rush hour city traffic so it works for me. I’m not worried about
Excellent video! I have a bronco with this motor, and learned a lot.
Been waiting for a video like this!
Awesome Video! Very helpful!
Thank you!
Thanks Greg
My stepson has one of these. Fun little engines.
Love these engines especially the 1.6 4pot thats in the formula fords single seaters here in the uk
I loved my eco boost in my manual mustang
I'm an old track-hound, but I've never been to Hallett. It looks like a pretty nice track, with some up-and-down hill action.
I am mostly interested in engines that are easy to fix ,water pumps, alternators, timing parts, and will run long distances at 65 mph I have an escort with 397000 mile that runs great but likes to go 60 or less. guess the 4.6 Ford is the one for me. good luck with your projects.and thanks for the videos , very informative content. I think most good engines will run at 55 mph for years. racing anything can happen as you are operating outside of normal use..
My 2017 Mustang EB manual has a bunch of bolt-on aftermarket stuff. The Cobb Accessport Stage 2 is the one that really wakes it up.
No, there are quite a few good tunes out there.
I think that something HPFP related that caused a lean condition and catastrophic overtemp is the most likely cause in this scenario, BUT it's already been guessed, so:
It was a failure of a cylinder wall due to the open-deck design, and you throwing 400+ hp at it was just too much. Running it hard at the track triggered some sort of minor coolant leak, but it only became an issue once everything had a chance to heat cycle before the drive home.
Here's my official guess: tune was on the ragged edge of going lean; however, with the denser air at night requiring more fuel than the fuel system could deliver at WOT and full boost, a catastrophic detonation event occurred destroying the engine.
One thing I like about Ford engines is they put most of the important stuff up top, where you can reach it with things like 'hands' and 'tools'.
I changed the boost solenoid hoses on my 500 Abarth a few times.
I have a ‘15 EB PP 6A that I bought new. I sold it to my son in ‘17, and bought it back last year (He bought a Bronco). Now it’s a dedicated track car (Shelby Club and AutoX). My first outing I saw high oil temps and inlet temperatures. I replaced the weak intercooler with a larger unit and added an oil cooler (plus hood vents). Last time out, the ecu did not cut throttle. I replaced the low pressure fuel sensor, added a simple open air blow off, and has had an oil separator since new. The car has always been well taken care of in terms of maintenance. All in all I really like the 2.3 EB they are efficient and reliable stock (93 octane tune). It’s lighter on the nose than the Coyote and offers excellent torque.
You seem to really know these engine, any advice would be welcome.
I like the 2.3 EcoBoost as well and I think it's a great engine in the Mustang. My suggestion is pretty much what you have already done, along with a tuned ECU or a very mild piggyback.
@ Your explanation of how the ecu estimates oil temp as the “gauge” does not give a number, was revealing. Unlike the trans temp gauge, which does. My fear was high trans (automatic) temps. To my surprise, that has not been the case. When I get back to a long track like Road America, It will be interesting to see if throttle is pulled when it assumes high engine oil temps…
Okay your failure question is because the planets were not aligned properly.
In David vizzard is like Clapton is to guitars. David absolutely knows what he's talking about.
Greg, I just want a car in 2024 with a 200,000 mile engine just running around town with two or more yearly long trips. 90% of USA users. That used to be Toyota products,
I have a 120,000 mile V6 Ford in a 2011 Escape and an 80,000 mile Jeep Overlander , both performing well.
Is the 2.3 an inline?😊
If I had to guess, what with this being an Ecoboost...head gasket failure caused by the open-deck design letting the cylinders flex and move in relation to the head, and wearing out the gasket in between as it rubs back and forth. Usually not something that happens immediately, which could explain why it took a day at the track and part of the ride home for it to manifest entirely.
Greg, really enjoy your vids. I’m a patreon subscriber and I never received any notifications over there. I just stumbled across this video today. Just curious. Don’t want to miss anything.
Thanks, I didn't put it up on Patreon because so few people there ask for automotive videos, but now that you mentioned it, I'll do that for the next one.
15:41 Dave Vizard said something in one of his videos about sending you guys one of his flow-ported turbos for testing. Is that something which ever happened?
David Vizzard what a legend, I got 170bhp out of my Ford SOHC engine with his pinto tuning guide. Brilliant guy.
Yes, the Vizard turbo mod was a part of package. However I don't want to give the impression that it was related to or the cause of the problem, it wasn't.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles Oh, I didn't think for a second his modded turbo was in any way related here. This was a totally unrelated question. IIRC he claimed his mods could add 40hp, and I was curious if you verified this on the dyno.
My bet on the Ecoboost failure is that the head studs stretched and allowed the head to lift just enough to blow out a portion of the head gasket.
Now I have even more respect for good mechanics, or should I say, technicians
Well, well, well. We both posted a video on the same day. 😂
Surprised there running an external crank trigger on such an advanced engine.
I like it, it's a lot easier to fix if something goes wrong.
Since you said you blew one up making a lot of power im gonna go with ring land. Not a mustang owner though, I have a Focus ST
"...now I'm not an engineer..." - Greg. I disagree. I worked on a1982 Nissan/Datsun 210 Wagon (the Sunny in England) for 8 years to keep my friend's 210 rolling - we had to pool our resources just to buy a tire. I have a gift for logistics but I am certainly NOT a natural engineer. Keeping my road bicycle rolling for 35 years was incredibly challenging. Being poor meant that I built and utilized bicycle tools that I couldn't afford to buy. One does what one has to. I made a few mistakes on that Nissan/Datsun but I kept it going. I do not enjoy fixing cars and bikes. I once watched a master (Italian) bicycle guy working on a bike and I witnessed pure magic. I prefer being a guitar player. The comments are a riot.
FWIW, the current thinking of EGR has very little to do with emissions and a lot more to do with fuel economy. There are multiple things where EGR helps- first it allows for better spark thanks to EGR moving the knock limit (which is a big deal for engines running 87 octane fuel), and second, the dilution allows for more open throttle lowering the pumping losses. For sure, there isn't much EGR when power demand is for peak power over economy.
Emissions control have come a long, long way where fuel is controlled so well that you can manipulate the chemistry in the catalyst to optimize the conversion. So far, in fact, that we now know that sometimes we are making NOx in the catalyst due to NH3 passing over an oxidized catalyst (which is kind of a trick to get into).
Across the pond, Eco Boost are known as Eco Booms
OMG about time! finally i can relax with a Greg Video on a flawed engine
I'm gonna say the head gasket popped between cylinders 3/4 as a result of very mild detonation over the course of the day. I know these ford 2.3's can't be fuelled enough for high power on the stock DI system.
Check that chair in the background at 5:46.....
We call it the Egg Chair. It's not even in an office, it's just used to roll around the shop for a spot to sit.
So did the engine fail as you pulled out to pass? If so, then it may have gotten into what we called "mega knock" which was an odd uncontrollable low speed knock that we got in DI engines. The best theory we came up with was some residual particulates stuck around in the combustion chamber causing a hot spot. But the mega knock would destroy a piston in really short order. Lots of calibration time was spent to avoid that, and given the manipulation that an aftermarket calibration would do, it seems quite possible that you got back into it.
This is probably why they went back to including port injection on a lot of these DI engines.
@@paulfrantizek102 PFDI doesn't really fix the mega knock, as it's a key area where DI is used to, ironically, move the knock limit. That's why it's so confusing. The PFI was added back for power first, and then emissions second. Power because it's cheaper than trying to make a bigger DI pump.
Any new news on cleaning the intake valves on 2.3 liter Ford ecoboost Mustang engines?
There's a lot of information now (in DEC 2024) that using spray cleaners into the intake can damage or destroy the turbo.
water injection, there is no other answer.
I'm really interested in what failed on the engine.
Head gasket - Detonation - Melted piston.
Ok, my guess:
Because of the turbo being very close to the block and because this engine is an open deck design it overheated likely at the passenger side where it was hotter than on the driver's. Then the block deformed a little bit and one last push resulted in crankshaft bearings welding-up with all the resulting damage.
I edited out some errors of the auto-correct
Knock sensor section is really good. LSPI-believers do not understand how they work and what they do.
My guess - you were at the track, uncovered the pickup and spun a rod bearing.
Curious how the 2.3 L EcoBoost in the Mustang is different from the 2.0 L EcoBoost engine in the Focus ST?
Mine has never been mosified and I've never had any issues with my 2015.
Intake valve fracture, into the chamber and splat. Just a guess.
Oil delivery, due to increased heat generation per rpm?, cascading into probably seizure of main or rod bearing
?
head gasket, hydraulic lock bending connecting rod. Did you mention how much that motor costs?
This is a fairly random guess.
I think the oil got too hot from the day at the track, you stated that the ECU is pretty good at estimating oil temperature but not over sustained times. The oil cools down slower than the coolant and other sensors, so the ECU thought the oil was cooler than it was on the drive home, when you tried to pass on the highway, the turbo spun too fast for the thin oil, blowing up the turbo. I was also thinking that hot oil and not enough pressure could cause a spun rod bearing, but I'll stick with the turbo blowing up.
That's ingenious, but in the video Greg was pretty laid back and unworried about the lack of an oil temperature sensor.
If the engine had gone bang as a result of miscalculated oil temperature I think he would have been spitting chips.
That's true, but it works the other way around. It cuts power when it doesn't need to.
knock sensor failed and allowed #2 piston to overheat and bent the rod which escaped out the side of the block.
(this happened on another ford engine of recent make)
Just started doing mechanic work and wondering why can't you just add a oil temp sensor value with tuning? Sorry for my ignorance
There is no input to the ECU for oil temperature. It's a calculated value, much like EGT.
Was it a crack between the cylinders or failed head gasket where the coolant passes between them in a thin channel? I know they updated that design.
That’s on the pre 2020 2.0 eco boost.
Looking at this from a 2.7 F150 point of view. Either a cylinder head gasket failure due to lifting the head (particular from the 2.3) or a twisted rod failure (I have seen on 2.7's).
I'm guessing the turbo over sped and shit the compressor wheel into the engine trashing it.
That's actually a pretty good guess.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles I may have had the same thing happen in the past :P But I did think you left a clue when talking about messing with wastegate shims.
I’m guessing it was something to do with the varriabke timing system that failed.
What are you using for a ECU, Stock, halltech, LINC? Good to see a Garrett from the factory. I have a G25 660 and Injector Dynamic 1050cc injectors on my 1JZ gte, so far it has been a stellar set up. Got to watch those VVT solenoids on those Eco Boosts. Any plans to go to E-85 or VP-C85?
Ring gap closed due to high oil temps?
Wastegate pressure wasn't calibrated correctly releasing the accelerator pedal after full boost caused an issue but I'm a nobody with a Mazda 3 speed so😅
Fuel pressure sensor on the blink, caused HPFP not to output enough pressure, combustion too lean, torched a piston?
COOLANT INTRUSION
too vague. I do like it.
215,000 miles on our 2015 Mustang. Just had to replace the clutch and pressure plate. Glad it lasted that long, parts are costly.
Can confirm the clean the connector issue. After new short block and head, daughter's Fusion coded for a new turbo, but only when it rained. Lol.
The 1.6 Mini engine is an example of failure (2nd gen new mini)- sure it's chain driven but it runs on plastic chain tensioners - what could go wrong? 😂
Did you check your oil level before leaving the track?
Good luck with one of those 'EcoBomb' engines.
So far so good :) It's no Alfa Romeo engine, but it's decent.
My guess for how you trashed the old engine is the oil got too hot, failed and one of the cylinders ceased.
Is this the older 2.3 ecoboost or the new 2.3 mpc ecoboost?
It's the older one, circa 2020. The new one just came out in 2024.
Haven't watched it completely yet, but I think your camera lens could use a cleaning.
i would guess from experience that your ecoboost failed from over compression / overtorque pushing the heads off the engine. at least that's what 3.5l do when you push 660 ft-lbs
when we will have a video about recumbent bike?
It's a two seater. My youngest, who is 23 has Down's and he loves to ride it with me. It's pretty fun.
@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles two seater=twice the fun.
Did the camshaft break in two?
My gues is coolant or oil leak leading to overheating and failure
Does the 2.3 have a wet belt like the 1.0 or 1.5?
Nope.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles wet belt driven oil pump?
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles thank god
As to your challenge, are you going to tell us what you did to the motor and what peak HP was it generating?
I'm not sure why you think it had something to do with peak horsepower but to answer your question, I will tell all about the mods to the motor and show exactly what happened.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles It is fairly well established where stock engine internals will start failing as power is increased. Now if you know you're safe there, and you know the source of the problem is unrelated, you need only acknowledge this.
Assuming that is the case, I'm guessing your comments about connector reliability and dongles to fudge the output of the sensors were the root cause of the problem here. That fed the ECU faulty data, and resulted in incorrect engine control. Garbage in, Garbage out.
I would guess the injectors weren’t capable enough, the engine ran lean, and heat caused the piston rings to seize and damage the cylinder lining.
Valve failure, they break and fall inside causing catastrophic results. Also the cam belts are known to go, once that happens that is that.
It’s a chain.
😂😂😂
Coolant leak into cylinder 3?
More on why I asked if you checked your oil level before leaving the track:
After 5 years of 1/4 mile competition, I've only had one issue with my 2018 Ecoboost Mustang and that is, motor oil loss, due to higher than stock combustion chamber pressure, resulting in higher than desired crankcase pressure, plus an engine ventilation system with limitations.
This is not a FORD issue, it is a modification issue. Under normal condition, the factory PCV system works fine. However, with the modifications, I have made to my stock long block motor, the results have been a loss of motor oil, with as much as 2 ounces per 1/4 mile pull.
Motor oil is important to engine lubrication, as well as assisting with heat transfer.
Regardless of what failed in your motor, is what caused the failure.
Will you be sharing your data logs?
I'm always happy to see you in the comments. I will be sharing photos and a full explanation of the damage. I don't plan to put up data logs as that will turn viewers away.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobilesI'd stay for a look at data logs, etc. Would be highlight of my day!
I'm really looking forward to your next video!!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles
Ecoboom!
A new engine that will soon be in the junkyard from 10,000 mile recommended WOIL changes!!
Hey Greg
I’m getting ready to rebuild my 1984 SVO 2.3L; I want to extract as much HP I can from the original platform but still keep it streetable on 93 octane
What do you suggest?
John H from AMF OAK
I suggest forged pistons and rods, good head bolts or studs, a more modern turbo and importantly a big front mounted intercooler. You really need to stay away from the underhood top mounted intercooler if possible.
I want to do a hybrid turbo and slightly larger injectors which will require me to trash the dual fuel pump configuration and just go with a bigger pump. The last item would be a 3 inch down pipe hooked up to a custom header
I figure I can get 250hp on 93 gas above the original 175hp
Yup, 250hp for that engine is no problem. If I were you I would send the turbo over to Gpop shop and have them upgrade it. They know me there and they do excellent work. A 3 inch downpipe will help and I would probably convert it to a more modern injection and ignition system.
Those electrical connectors and wiring look so flimsy with lack of good shielding. Bearing in mind all the heat stress and primary vibration so close to or mounted on the engine itself.
Surprised it’s not a variable geometry turbo at this age.
It's dual scroll, and let's keep in mind the EcoBoost Mustang is a budget friendly performance car.
@
Makes sense. I’m in the UK and it’s a diesel market mostly, especially bigger engines. Diesel went for vg early, probably because to shape the boost. The old ones before vg were super laggy.
Dont care much about cars, but watching this because its Greg
lean condition?
seen a number of vacuum pumps go bad, more problematic on the F150 ecobost motors
How much is it?
It's a wet timing belt engine, right?
😮
No, but a few others have said that. I guess I'll need to go into more of the internals in the follow up video.
I don't see here anything indicating that the right answer was reached, so I will posit one last possible failure. That would be a failed wastegate (stuck closed) and overboosted the engine, once again leading to insufficient fuel and a detonation related failure due to a lean condition or inadequate octane based on the dynamic pressure in the cylinder. This could result in a hydrolocking a cylinder from a headgasket failure, a ring land failure, a rod failure, or even a hole in a piston subsequent to the detonation.
The engine got stuck, not because of the cylinders/valves but because of the crankshaft bearings.
I'm subscribed to quite a few garage based RUclips channels and there seems to be a broad consensus among repair shop owners that Ford Eco-boost engines, especially the V6s, are notoriouisly unreliable. Certainly you must be aware of that undercurrent. What are your comments? Why do you believe everyone in the repair business is trashing the Ecobost V6? Valid or invalid? How is the I-4 different. Is there any heritage in the I-4 Ecobost connected to the Miata I-4 that was used jointly by Ford and Mazda durring their long hook-up? One more question if you will. The Mazda (built in Hiroshima) 3.7 V6 in my 2012 CX9 is identical to the Ford V6 put in the Edge of that year. Since the engines are identicel, why is the Mazda version so much more reliable that the Ford version? (an opinion I recieved from my independant mechanic as well as my Mazda Dealer). Better quality control in Hiroshima? Something else?
I don't have an EcoBoost V6. I strongly prefer the 2.3 because of the timing chain and because it's easier to work on. The Mazda vs. Ford topic is too complex for the comment section. Especially as the Ford 2.3s have been built in Spain, Mexico, and Ohio and breaking them down in terms of reliability between production locations is a problem.
Let me guess. Cylinder wall cracked between 3 and 4.
Question: When you down shifted, to pass the car on the highway, did you hit your rev limit?
Good question. I wasn't driving but I do know that the car was in automatic mode, not being manually shifted so it kicked down into a passing gear and upshifted correctly and on schedule. I'll release the next video sooner than planned, probably this weekend.
Head gasket fail, coolant intrusion
I would guess rubber timing belt failed
They have chains
you broke the block, didn't you.