3+1 2 programmers to hold the ladder 1 designer to insert the lightbulb and finally, one Ben Brode to explain to the angry people, why the opaque lightbulb is better and why it was the best decision at the moment. Kappa
So all it takes to get upvotes these days is to spread some twitch copypastas to youtube? Sign me up! ☑ “This gentleman's deck is ABSURD!” ☑ “My deck cannot hope to prevail against a deck of that caliber” ☑ "He REQUIRED those two cards in subsequent order to succeed" ☑ “He extracted from his deck the only cards capable of defeating me” ☑ "His cards defied logic" ☑ “There was no manoeuvre at my disposal to secure victory” ☑ “I played impeccably” Love me ;-;
30 renos would be balanced, but if neither of the players has heal/armor. The second player always wins. AKA balance, since the game is rng based. Rolling first or second would be 100% rng!
Ice rager? Pfft what is that crap? The original rager is clearly the best. Ice can be slashed and smashed, fire cannot. Fire spreads and burns anything and everything, regardless of its size. As long as the target is flammable.
But that's a big problem just as Kripp was saying. 12 mage commons absolutely crushes 12 priest commons. The rating of cards based on rarity is absolutely absurd. A godly card such as flame strike is a common whereas a shitty priest card like purify (I know its not in arena, just an example) is common too. They need to readjust all rarities of the cards. Making cards like truesilver/flamestrike rare or epics and making shitty rares and epics commons.
Arena is the coolest mode in HS and you have to purchase a run. I would be 100% okay with another arena mode that is free but no rewards. Constructed is just annoying and frustrating to play.
Pft, like casual is any better. I go in casual to try out new legendary from Karazan just to be faced with aggro cancer decks 4 out of 5 times. People are cancer even in casual.
i dont see the logic of playing casual, but whats worse is TRYHARDING in casual. you arent gaining any rank by doing so and there is no 'win streak,' so why play a cancer deck? i usually play a somewhat aggro druid until a kinda-high rank then just grind levels because i know ill never beat the fucking zoolocks and aggro paladins.
The logic goes 'I have a quest for a class I hate and don't want to play on ladder because I might lose stars, so i'm going to netdeck the most braindead faceroll agro deck for this class and play it in casual until the quest is finished'
Dunno what wrong with me, but i've played casual today and faced two freeze mages, one miracle rogue, one contol warrior, bunch of zoolocks and two or maybe three secret hunters.
+LAKORIZONstandard or just dont be absolute garbage at the game. ill be honest i make it to like rank 15 in constructed (so im pretty shit) but i can get AT LEAST 2 or 3 wins every arena deck I've gotten. and tk put my decks in perspective, i have never once gotten a legendary. i understand some people face 12 win decks at 0-2 but like that is so unlikely it hurts
5:15 why didn't you razorfen, then boar, hit the shieldmaster with your 1/1, then clock him with your now 4/5. So much more tempo. Am I missing something??
No, if he had done that he would've had an 4,2 on board and ~in arena you really need to have big cards in the field and since he couldn't kill any of his cards with the shieldmaster kripp may get a better trade on the turn after with spells and spawñing even more stuff, Sorry for my english, don't judge me
But problem with pick from 5, is that you're going to see alot more OP decks in Arena. Do you really want to see more flamestrikes / fireballs / water elementals etc?
JaXX It shouldn't theoretically make decks "more OP" because all classes would be benefiting equally from it, but relatively, it might actually make the arena worse, because classes with the strongest abundance of commons would become insanely strong. Blizz would also have to balance the rarity system, then adding to the card draft pool would be great for more consistency.
First, some perspective. I'm a PURIFY-PRIEST player. If you don't know what that is, it's not important, just know it's a deck I'm very passionate about and that I've played for three years now. That's right, I've played the same deck for the years, and it's never gotten stale. Why? Because the enjoyment comes from mastering the deck, from fine tuning my decision making, my sequencing, from learning how to play around the latest and greatest shenanigans.
HS is an rng/emotional rollercoaster - and this is how it's purposefully designed. Ppl get mad>buy packs. Ppl get lucky and win>they are happy with the game. 'Consistency' in this game is your overall winrate, that's it.
In Magic, drafts (the "equivalent" of arena) are usually 8 players, who open three 15-card booster packs, selecting one card from each pack and then passing it on. In this fashion, the quality of decks is fairly uniform in any particular draft.
Well I like what Day9 said a while back that in arena you draft 40 cards and discard 10 cards in order to have a better chance at creating better and themed decks. I also think that every draft should have guaranteed number of rarity drafts. Something in line with 1 legendary, 3 epics, 6 rares and 20 (or in the case above 30) "normal" random rarity card drafts. But bbrode said that they were working on an new arena draft system where rarity wont matter right? So maybe for the next expansion?... maybe?
Way back when you had about 1/7th the amounts of cards we do today, there wasn't much inconsistency. They need to adjust now that the game has had such a huge influx over the years. Mages will always have the advantage with their class cards/common clears showing up all the frickin time.
Couldn't agree more. I've made 12-0 in the past and I've gone 1-3, playing exactly the same, simply because of getting complete garbage choices and going up against opponents who did get good cards. There you are, sitting on your deck of 29 commons and 1 rare, and the other guy ends up having both Ragnaros and Hogger. It was like... yeah, great, fun game.
I think Brode mentioned (or someone I was talking to) that a system that lowers the chance of drawing a card the more the card is picked. Though this might end up making Arena unfun, but the commonality wouldn't really matter anymore as the best cards will have the lowest chance of appearing.
I think a good balance for Arena should be a draft deck mode with a fixed number of rarity card. So at the beginning of an Arena run you know that you'll have at least a deck with (for example): 1 legendary, 3 epic, 8 rare and 18 common. Not necessarily in this way, but it can be a good idea in opinion.
I think the Dungeoneering system from Chronicle: RuneScape Legends would work well in Hearthstone. Draft 2 from a choice of 5 helps get some sort of consistency and also allows for some decent synergy.
WAYS TO BALANCE ARENA 1.) *Balance your cards.* Generally, constructed decks are greater than arena decks, but there are some cards in the game that aren't played in constructed that not even an arena player would want. 2.) *Fix rarity.* Rarity is currently a major deciding factor in Arena, which theoretically is okay if it wasn't completely arbitrary. 3.) *Increase draft pools.* Think of this as a spectrum. If arena simply gave you a deck of completely random cards, that deck is always almost always going to be worse and less consistent than if a player was drafting from a pool of 3. However, 3 has perhaps proved to not be enough. We need to increase the cards pools even more to enable more consistancy. 1-card pool arena draft = as random and inconsistant as it gets. If we go to the opposite side of the spectrum, infinite-card pool arena draft, we get literally constructed, which is the most consistant.
I was playing a Paladin at 2-1 that had the Chow > Minibot > Muster going first while I had nothing smaller than a 4- drop in my opening hand. Fortunately I top decked Doomsayer turn 2. FeelsGoodMan.
I reached a similar realization a little while ago. I averaged just under 6 wins per arena in WotoG, so I'm not the best at it, but I'm not terrible either. I had a 2-3 Mage arena with a deck that I didn't really expect to do well. So it's whatever. The next day I do an arena and my options are hunter, priest, and druid. So I draft a druid deck with pretty decent minions, but not much removal. I'm really only expecting 4-5 wins. I proceed to go 1-3 against a bunch of decks that were way too good to be at 1-1 and 1-2. My 1-2 game in particular against a shaman with spot removal, weapon, a lightning storm, and high quality minions. I'm getting aggravated, but I decide to immediately do another arena. My options are hunter, priest, and paladin. So I pick paladin and my first card pick is between Target Dummy, Eerie Statue, and Silithid Swarmer.... I immediately proceed to uninstall the game.
I still remember my first arena run. It was around the time just before gvg. I saw oddone say mage was good, so when it was offered I took it. I got 5 fireballs and black knight, then went 7/3.
What i`ve been saying for about a year and a half now. Arena should have specific draft raritys at certain pard picks. EG card 30 will allways be a legendary. You get like a certain number of raritys in a draft garunteed then the rest are commons. Like you`re garunteed 1 legendary, 4 epics and 8 rares then the rest commons. That was every deck has the same chances of drafting similar powers of cards.
From my perspective only one thing really bad in arena: if one player makes 6-3 run, another player need to complete 0-3 run. I'm not even talking about 12-0s Kripp so common about - 4 people need to go 0-3 to enable that result. Nobody seems to really understand that average result in arena is BELOW 3 wins.
That opponent played 24 cards that were a combined 1539 points in the heartharena tier list. Meaning his average deck tier score based on what we saw was 64.1. That's like in bottom 10%, that opponent had a very inconsistent deck with bunch of very weak cards.
The reason Hearthstone is less consistent than MTG for example is that MTG has you draft your deck from a communal set of cards. Meaning every player you play was given pretty much the same pool to draw from. The issue with this however is you HAVE to play with those players right then for up 4 hours without being able to leave and come back another day. It's a big trade off, I'm sure other games have found ways to do it better though.
Here's the decklist (24 of 30 cards) of Kripp's opponent: www.hearthpwn.com/decks/609685-arena Yeah, it's pretty crazy. It's not 7 flamestrike crazy, but then again, I don't know what the last 6 cards were. He could have another flamestrike, another legendary, some fireballs, who knows.
100% Agree with the rarity evaluation, Ive always from day 1 thought there was some imbalance here, and its only getting worse. They need to do a pass on all cards and re-categorize the cards to suit there tiers in terms of power.
It happens because there's a lot of shitty cards that exists that Blizzard has no intention of balancing, they just straight up power creep with "newer" cards.
Even if every card was 100% balanced and on curve, arena would still be inconsistant. Some might get a bunch of epics or legendaries, they get weapons and removals. And half your cards are common 1-5 drops.
Charle Magne No, balance means on curve value. What you are talking about is not balance, having cards like murlocs or beasts does not bring imbalance. They just work with each other more.
Making a slightly better version of a terrible card isn't power creep, because the card it's replacing is already bad and thus isn't played. It is, however, very scummy of them.
Another idea would be to just completely remove the rarity drafting thing and replace it by mana costs. Blizzard can then also balance arena on the fly by simply tweaking the chance of drafting certain mana cost cards on the fly. The most important thing in arena is staying on curve and playing tempo every turn. So have the draft be based around that makes way more sense than any sort of unbalanced rarity quality disparity among classes.
What if they did a guaranteed system for Arena?? First 20 cards are common card pools 21-27 are rare card pools 28-30 are epic or legendary card pools Something similar to this anyways, I could see it working and make Arena more consistent I feel.
I play a lot of magic and in their sealed format as you probably know you just work with pack in which the number of commons uncommons and rares is always (sometimes different in some sets) the the same. it might be nice if instead of the base 3 rares you get in hearthstone while everything beyond that being random, they would make it some that everyone always get the same amount of rares, epics and legend. I don't know what the amount should be, but everyone getting 18 commons, 7 rares, 4 epics and 1 legend in each run might be good. It will prolly not balance the classes but at least it would make the ups and downs further apart.
The solution is the constant number of rare card. For example, every deck can have 1 legendary, 3 epics, 5 rares and fill others with common. That's it! P.S.: The numbers can be different.
The way ranked should work is your first game is random whether you start first or second, then the next game the opposite. So if you started going 1st next game you go 2nd then game after that 1st again. that would make a big difference.
Probably because it would add another requirement to matchmaking, always needing to include a going first-guy and a going second-/first game of the night-guy. In other words, it'd cut away half the possible match ups for every player, every game. Still worth it? Possibly, but matchmaking times would be longer, and chances of running into the same guy multiple times in a row would increase.
The Rabbitoak thats a good point. just really annoys me. I had a 3-3 run earlier where 5 games i went 2nd. I was lucky to get 3 wins. then yesterday i went 11-3 with a really shit deck ha.
The Rabbitoak The upside is, winning more because you may go first more, facing the same guy could be a blessing cause you know the deck, and I much rather have a longer queue time than my odds of winning reduced. But for me it doesn't matter as I don't play this game much. I merely watch it for entertainment and kripp puts me to sleep at night lol.
Gromitz101 His voice is perfect for having a nap after dinner too, actually. And like I tried to say earlier, changing matchmaking might still be worth it , but there'd be a price is all.
EleGiggle I'm KRIPPARIAN, and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old lady Rania and my son, Big Dex. Every minute of my stream has a story and a price. One thing I've learned after 21 years of salt - you never know WHAT they're gonna pay me to play EleGiggle
I wonder how differently that game would have gone if Kripp had killed the Sen'jin on turn 4 by playing Razorfen Hunter and Boar then trading. He would've denied any use for the Lance Carrier, denied a full value off the Acolyte, had enough of a board to contest the Psycho-Tron, and would've been able to play Yeti and Blood imp on that turn, giving him two full turns to apply enough pressure to maybe make a difference. I guess that's just me having a bad player mentality by not ensuring I have something to play the next turn since Kripp didn't know he'd get the Blood Imp, but I would think a growing Councilman is enough of a threat at the time to risk being 1 mana off curve on turn 5. Maybe I just suck and should stay in Twitch Chat where the other Rank 25's congregate.
thats because there is one of you and EVERYONE else is your opponent so statistically you are going to come across better decks and better players plus always have a few rares or greater.
As a person whos played a lot of hearthstone AND chronicle runescape legends arena, I dont think its really that much more consistent in chronicle. If anything, I think chronicle is more inconsistent as you almost always have to find cards to combo into killing bigger cards, rather than being able to play stand alone cards like you normally do in hearthstone.
What I think is only legendries must have lower chance to be drafted when making deck By this I mean epics and commons has equal chance to be drafted But still you will find fewer epics than commons since number of commons are VERY HUGE compared to epics Yet by this warriors can find brawl and your enemy will not say "oh secret... well ice block is epic so most likely its not that" when you play secret as mage
I think Blizzard should experiment with the idea of Arena-exclusive rarities. Only a small handful of Hearthstone's cards are complex enough to justify gating them off with Epic/Legendary status. There's a lot going on with Hearthstone's classes, and it may need to be ironed out with some small tweaks here and there.
Just make arena rarity based on how often the cards get picked. Cards that get picked every time they're an option simply show up a lot less often.That way it's impossible to get a deck full of only good to great cards and everybody would have to deal with some shitty cards as well.
I don't really like RS Chronicles but I think the drafting system they have is much better. I believe every player gets the same number of rare cards, but correct me if I'm wrong
How about adopting the standard / wild format to the arena system. I think there would be enough people playing both formats. There were also doubts about enough ppl playing wild in ranked, but it is still around and it will get more and more popular over time when people want to have that retro feeling of playing with their old cards. Arena needs something like this sooner or later, like standard / modern / legacy in magic tcg.
i've been there, a mage shot firelands portal when he was losing hard to my hunter and low and behold he gets halaziel, freaking halaziel and wouldn't u know it, he had a 2nd flamelance to help him win a definite losing match
I really think it's stupid that the rarity of cards you get in arena is random. I think it should be a fixed number (like 16 commons, 8 rares, 4 epics & 2 legendaries, or something like that)ecause even then there's gonna be a huge variance in card quality. But Blizz wants more random in their random
I don't think cards should have a biger or lesser chance of beeing drafted based on their rarity, I think any card, even legendarys, should have an equal chance to be drafted at any point
They should do it where you open 'X' packs where you don't keep the cards and then you choose a hero based off of the cards you pull and then make a 30 card deck, easy
Only solution is a complete rebalance of rarities and capping legendaries to one with a higher chance to get it (or 100%). But that's a huge amount of work, and I doubt Ben Brode wants to do it.
i think everyone should have a minimum of each rarity card. Like 2 legendary 6 epic 10 rare and 12 common and draft that way. You can build a realy deck like that because you can build around those legendary of your.
Also,as they add more cards, variance just goes up with each expansion, and the majority of decks seems to get worse and worse. I definitely not the best Arena player, but I played couple of runs last weekend. While my average of about 5 wins seems to have stuck. I got more 10-12 win decks than I ever have previously. It felt like 12 wins or 1-3. The Dream deck is getting stronger and stronger every expansion, not just with the stupid cards they are releasing, but also because every deck that isn't the dream is getting worse and worse with all the trash that gets released also.
It is obvious that Arena is supposed to be chaotic and random but the class balance is the only real problem. It could be remedied by changing rarities but then Blizzard loses money by making staple cards easy to come by for constructed. The point is supposed to be that sometimes you get absolute shit and sometimes you get a constructed quality deck.
he throws around the words best and worst like its nothing so take his analysis of decks with a grain of salt, or a pound depending on just how OP the other players cards are
huge toad (okay 2 drop) flamecannon (good removal) sen'jin shieldmasta (good 4 drop) lance carrier (okay 2 drop) acolyte of pain (good 3 drop) psych-o-tron (okay 5 drop) x2 flamestrike (very good board clear) firelands portal (good removal) flamewaker (good 3 drop) dire wolf alpha (good 2 drop) kvaldir raider (good late game card) bloodsail corsair (meh 1 drop) argent commander (decent 6 drop) river crocolisk (okay 2 drop) kobold geomancer (meh 2 drop) cone of cold (decent board-clear-like) ehtereal arcanist (bad 4 drop) spiteful smith (meh 5 drop) chillmaw (decent legendary taunt, had activator for deathrattle) deathwing (insane legendary, one of the best if not the best to get in arena) burly rockjaw trogg (okay 4 drop) water elemental (good 4 drop) tauren warrior (meh 3 drop) This is 24/30 cards revealed. All the cards were overall very high quality, the most important part was plenty of removal and a deathwing, a boardclear, multiple taunts, several good drops for their spot, only one really "bad" card (ethereal arcanist) so yeah, pretty much, this is one of the best mage decks you'll see in arena. Unless the 6 other cards were all complete crap but it's doubtful, and even if they were, deathwing is a big deal in arena. If you disagree either it's because you don't play arena, or because you don't play arena a lot and got a small sample size that skewed your perceptions.
would making each of the three cards you can choose from have a chance at being above common make it more fair? then there is a 0-90 chance of getting rare or above rather than 0-30.
my reasoning is that if you have a bigger "choice pool" so to speak then you will get a broader average. with less chance of getting a rediculously good/bad deck
I just got a shaman arena run with a tier avarage of 72.5 with basically everything you could ask for except maybe a few boardclears, anyway... it ends up 2-3... the first game my opponent plays a turn 9 ysera and when I hex it it turns out the secret he played with kirin two turns earlier was counterspell, in my last game my opponent double eviscerated my earth elemental and then plays thaurissan followed by 3 comboed shadopans and a boulderfist and in my and on top of that I only got basic totems out of all the maybe 8 tuskarrs I played... wtf
I think so, In my Hs experience i got one 12 win, 2 9 wins a bunch of 6-7 wins and a lot of 1-3 wins, yes im a bad player, but when i got a mage i shine. when i got a togue /shamman i suck. i think it should be rebalanced and stff
you could pretty much fix this by giving out 40 cards and allowing the player to bin 10 of them. if that's too complicated for newbies (how it can be more complicated than understanding what is good in arena I have no idea) then add an automated system to weed out crap. Bam. Arena has just become a real drafting format. Congratulations, you have taken your first step out of the RNG shit swamp.
That's why I don't play arena, I am so unlucky that I won't get a single good deck and arena seems to purely depends on which deck is better and your card draws/opening hand that plus it being paid and I only do arena in my secondary account (still rarely)
Taking inspiration from DOTA's random draft...what about arena not having classes but rather you get presented cards from all classes, and at the end you get to pick any one of the 9 hero powers available.
![[Hearthstone] Bottom Of The Arena](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/x0R-tSS1iho/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Hearthstone] Bottom Of The Arena](/img/tr.png)
![[Hearthstone] The Opera In Karazhan](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DdeMKwKZdhI/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Hearthstone] Balancing Moltens & Risk](/img/1.gif)
How many Blizzard Developers does it take to change a lightbulb????
They can't, because first they'd have to balance the ladder.
Fucking gold!
Working as intended
Kappa //
3+1
2 programmers to hold the ladder
1 designer to insert the lightbulb
and finally, one Ben Brode to explain to the angry people, why the opaque lightbulb is better and why it was the best decision at the moment.
Kappa
+rep
So all it takes to get upvotes these days is to spread some twitch copypastas to youtube? Sign me up!
☑ “This gentleman's deck is ABSURD!” ☑ “My deck cannot hope to prevail
against a deck of that caliber” ☑ "He REQUIRED those two cards in
subsequent order to succeed" ☑ “He extracted from his deck the only
cards capable of defeating me” ☑ "His cards defied logic" ☑ “There was
no manoeuvre at my disposal to secure victory” ☑ “I played impeccably”
Love me ;-;
I feel compelled to like your comment...
+Jason Dang (NitroCreeper456) k
i liked it, don´t worry :)
Lion Reichelt
\ ;-; /
you're just dreaming, oh wait..
Yeah, Blizzard, make it more consistent by limiting all Cards to one.
That will make it.
Actually that idea sounds pretty good.
Your opponent will have only one 4 mana 7/7 in turn 4
30 renos would be balanced, but if neither of the players has heal/armor. The second player always wins. AKA balance, since the game is rng based. Rolling first or second would be 100% rng!
What if they draft the original 4 mana 7/7, Eerie statue
+Dazger (ParaVox) Corr Rager will come and kick your ass
Miku9999 Eerie statue's better, best Card NA
Here's a joke:
Blizzard is good at balancing Hearthstone
here's a joke
arena priest
Here's a joke:
You're both funny and original.
Here's a joke:
Blizzard is good at balancing their games.
Isn't that just life in general?
here's a joke: purify is good
Every deck should have to draft atleast one Rager. This would bring some consistency...
but that would mean everyone would use ice rager
Ice rager? Pfft what is that crap? The original rager is clearly the best. Ice can be slashed and smashed, fire cannot. Fire spreads and burns anything and everything, regardless of its size. As long as the target is flammable.
But thed I'd run your natural counter, Am'gam rager.
***** Fucking party pooper. Gtfo!
If everyone draft a Rager, no one will be!
Every arena should have a common deck formula. Like every arena you are guaranteed to have 12 commons 10 rares 6 epics and 2 legends
12 target dummies
10 Angry chickens
6 astral communions
and 2 lorewalker cho's
There arena fixed
But that's a big problem just as Kripp was saying. 12 mage commons absolutely crushes 12 priest commons. The rating of cards based on rarity is absolutely absurd. A godly card such as flame strike is a common whereas a shitty priest card like purify (I know its not in arena, just an example) is common too. They need to readjust all rarities of the cards. Making cards like truesilver/flamestrike rare or epics and making shitty rares and epics commons.
+Mohammad M dummy is rare
Legends should just be random, guaranteeing 2legends every deck would be infuriating.
Well maybe not have but the choice to pick.
Arena is the coolest mode in HS and you have to purchase a run. I would be 100% okay with another arena mode that is free but no rewards. Constructed is just annoying and frustrating to play.
Pft, like casual is any better. I go in casual to try out new legendary from Karazan just to be faced with aggro cancer decks 4 out of 5 times. People are cancer even in casual.
i dont see the logic of playing casual, but whats worse is TRYHARDING in casual. you arent gaining any rank by doing so and there is no 'win streak,' so why play a cancer deck? i usually play a somewhat aggro druid until a kinda-high rank then just grind levels because i know ill never beat the fucking zoolocks and aggro paladins.
The logic goes 'I have a quest for a class I hate and don't want to play on ladder because I might lose stars, so i'm going to netdeck the most braindead faceroll agro deck for this class and play it in casual until the quest is finished'
Dunno what wrong with me, but i've played casual today and faced two freeze mages, one miracle rogue, one contol warrior, bunch of zoolocks and two or maybe three secret hunters.
+LAKORIZONstandard or just dont be absolute garbage at the game. ill be honest i make it to like rank 15 in constructed (so im pretty shit) but i can get AT LEAST 2 or 3 wins every arena deck I've gotten. and tk put my decks in perspective, i have never once gotten a legendary. i understand some people face 12 win decks at 0-2 but like that is so unlikely it hurts
5:15 why didn't you razorfen, then boar, hit the shieldmaster with your 1/1, then clock him with your now 4/5. So much more tempo. Am I missing something??
Yeah, he made a huge mistake there - he could win if he did that play.
No, if he had done that he would've had an 4,2 on board and ~in arena you really need to have big cards in the field and since he couldn't kill any of his cards with the shieldmaster kripp may get a better trade on the turn after with spells and spawñing even more stuff,
Sorry for my english, don't judge me
Nope ur not missing ur correct, he misplayed
with that play he actualy kills the shield master
Simao Henriques having a 4/2, 2/3 and 1/1, against a clear board is much more impactful in arena rather than a 2/5, 4/5 against a 3/5
I wish they would allow you a pick from 5 instead of 3.
Yeah, that'd be a simple change that could help a bit.
Think 5 is too much, but 4 would be perfect.
But problem with pick from 5, is that you're going to see alot more OP decks in Arena. Do you really want to see more flamestrikes / fireballs / water elementals etc?
+Stevan Milanovic Yeah 4 would be perfect :)
JaXX It shouldn't theoretically make decks "more OP" because all classes would be benefiting equally from it, but relatively, it might actually make the arena worse, because classes with the strongest abundance of commons would become insanely strong. Blizz would also have to balance the rarity system, then adding to the card draft pool would be great for more consistency.
First, some perspective. I'm a PURIFY-PRIEST player. If you don't know what that is, it's not important, just know it's a deck I'm very passionate about and that I've played for three years now. That's right, I've played the same deck for the years, and it's never gotten stale. Why? Because the enjoyment comes from mastering the deck, from fine tuning my decision making, my sequencing, from learning how to play around the latest and greatest shenanigans.
HS is an rng/emotional rollercoaster - and this is how it's purposefully designed. Ppl get mad>buy packs. Ppl get lucky and win>they are happy with the game.
'Consistency' in this game is your overall winrate, that's it.
In Magic, drafts (the "equivalent" of arena) are usually 8 players, who open three 15-card booster packs, selecting one card from each pack and then passing it on. In this fashion, the quality of decks is fairly uniform in any particular draft.
Well I like what Day9 said a while back that in arena you draft 40 cards and discard 10 cards in order to have a better chance at creating better and themed decks.
I also think that every draft should have guaranteed number of rarity drafts. Something in line with 1 legendary, 3 epics, 6 rares and 20 (or in the case above 30) "normal" random rarity card drafts.
But bbrode said that they were working on an new arena draft system where rarity wont matter right? So maybe for the next expansion?... maybe?
Way back when you had about 1/7th the amounts of cards we do today, there wasn't much inconsistency. They need to adjust now that the game has had such a huge influx over the years. Mages will always have the advantage with their class cards/common clears showing up all the frickin time.
kripp with a pinch of salt is the kripp we all know and love
Seriously this Mage deck is insane
Couldn't agree more. I've made 12-0 in the past and I've gone 1-3, playing exactly the same, simply because of getting complete garbage choices and going up against opponents who did get good cards. There you are, sitting on your deck of 29 commons and 1 rare, and the other guy ends up having both Ragnaros and Hogger. It was like... yeah, great, fun game.
random thought. Have arena make you pick one pack series and only pick those cards with the basic cards along with them in draft.
I think Brode mentioned (or someone I was talking to) that a system that lowers the chance of drawing a card the more the card is picked. Though this might end up making Arena unfun, but the commonality wouldn't really matter anymore as the best cards will have the lowest chance of appearing.
I think a good balance for Arena should be a draft deck mode with a fixed number of rarity card.
So at the beginning of an Arena run you know that you'll have at least a deck with (for example):
1 legendary, 3 epic, 8 rare and 18 common.
Not necessarily in this way, but it can be a good idea in opinion.
kripp misplayed at 5:13, he should have played razorfen hunter and the stonetusk boar, then killed the shieldmasta
with 3 mana?!
+Dr. Pepper Yeah the same 3 mana he used to play the yeti instead
No, with 5 mana.
EugeneCernan he had 4 mana... lol
scrolled down to either find or post this. thank you, citizen.
Yeah it should, all classes should have a 4 mana 7/7.
all classes can get a 4 mana 7/7 its just that shamman can have 2
Yep, people forget about eerie statue
Why do I have a little white boy in my closet?
How is that racist?
priest can have 2 3 mana 7/7.
Doomsayer > silence > inner fire.
for a mere 6 cards you can play two tempo minions
I think the Dungeoneering system from Chronicle: RuneScape Legends would work well in Hearthstone. Draft 2 from a choice of 5 helps get some sort of consistency and also allows for some decent synergy.
WAYS TO BALANCE ARENA
1.) *Balance your cards.* Generally, constructed decks are greater than arena decks, but there are some cards in the game that aren't played in constructed that not even an arena player would want.
2.) *Fix rarity.* Rarity is currently a major deciding factor in Arena, which theoretically is okay if it wasn't completely arbitrary.
3.) *Increase draft pools.* Think of this as a spectrum. If arena simply gave you a deck of completely random cards, that deck is always almost always going to be worse and less consistent than if a player was drafting from a pool of 3. However, 3 has perhaps proved to not be enough. We need to increase the cards pools even more to enable more consistancy. 1-card pool arena draft = as random and inconsistant as it gets. If we go to the opposite side of the spectrum, infinite-card pool arena draft, we get literally constructed, which is the most consistant.
I was playing a Paladin at 2-1 that had the Chow > Minibot > Muster going first while I had nothing smaller than a 4- drop in my opening hand. Fortunately I top decked Doomsayer turn 2. FeelsGoodMan.
Great idea! As the greatest card in arena everyone would want to consistently draft atleast 3 of me.
4:16
So fast.
On point
Saved my life
O shet im early, i need a joke
Core rager
+Flamewreatherino Faceleserino kriperino i Got a Better One
Puri... Ok No , i wont say this
I reached a similar realization a little while ago. I averaged just under 6 wins per arena in WotoG, so I'm not the best at it, but I'm not terrible either. I had a 2-3 Mage arena with a deck that I didn't really expect to do well. So it's whatever.
The next day I do an arena and my options are hunter, priest, and druid. So I draft a druid deck with pretty decent minions, but not much removal. I'm really only expecting 4-5 wins. I proceed to go 1-3 against a bunch of decks that were way too good to be at 1-1 and 1-2. My 1-2 game in particular against a shaman with spot removal, weapon, a lightning storm, and high quality minions.
I'm getting aggravated, but I decide to immediately do another arena. My options are hunter, priest, and paladin. So I pick paladin and my first card pick is between Target Dummy, Eerie Statue, and Silithid Swarmer....
I immediately proceed to uninstall the game.
I still remember my first arena run. It was around the time just before gvg. I saw oddone say mage was good, so when it was offered I took it. I got 5 fireballs and black knight, then went 7/3.
What i`ve been saying for about a year and a half now. Arena should have specific draft raritys at certain pard picks. EG card 30 will allways be a legendary. You get like a certain number of raritys in a draft garunteed then the rest are commons. Like you`re garunteed 1 legendary, 4 epics and 8 rares then the rest commons. That was every deck has the same chances of drafting similar powers of cards.
From my perspective only one thing really bad in arena: if one player makes 6-3 run, another player need to complete 0-3 run. I'm not even talking about 12-0s Kripp so common about - 4 people need to go 0-3 to enable that result. Nobody seems to really understand that average result in arena is BELOW 3 wins.
That opponent played 24 cards that were a combined 1539 points in the heartharena tier list. Meaning his average deck tier score based on what we saw was 64.1. That's like in bottom 10%, that opponent had a very inconsistent deck with bunch of very weak cards.
The reason Hearthstone is less consistent than MTG for example is that MTG has you draft your deck from a communal set of cards. Meaning every player you play was given pretty much the same pool to draw from. The issue with this however is you HAVE to play with those players right then for up 4 hours without being able to leave and come back another day. It's a big trade off, I'm sure other games have found ways to do it better though.
Here's the decklist (24 of 30 cards) of Kripp's opponent: www.hearthpwn.com/decks/609685-arena
Yeah, it's pretty crazy. It's not 7 flamestrike crazy, but then again, I don't know what the last 6 cards were. He could have another flamestrike, another legendary, some fireballs, who knows.
Disenchanted cthun to craft twin emperors feelsbadman
Why? Is that card not impossible to craft or something?
you cant disenchant c'thun
you cant dust cthun you mess
we aint talking about the past were talking about the present
"you cant dust cthun you mess" i dont know about you but that doesnt sound like hes talking about the past
100% Agree with the rarity evaluation, Ive always from day 1 thought there was some imbalance here, and its only getting worse. They need to do a pass on all cards and re-categorize the cards to suit there tiers in terms of power.
It happens because there's a lot of shitty cards that exists that Blizzard has no intention of balancing, they just straight up power creep with "newer" cards.
Even if every card was 100% balanced and on curve, arena would still be inconsistant. Some might get a bunch of epics or legendaries, they get weapons and removals. And half your cards are common 1-5 drops.
+Rias-Sama But if all cards are balanced, rarity us irrelevant and so are types of cards.
Charle Magne No, balance means on curve value. What you are talking about is not balance, having cards like murlocs or beasts does not bring imbalance. They just work with each other more.
All I'm saying is consistency will improve. Nobody is selling an utopian Hearthstone game here.
Making a slightly better version of a terrible card isn't power creep, because the card it's replacing is already bad and thus isn't played. It is, however, very scummy of them.
Another idea would be to just completely remove the rarity drafting thing and replace it by mana costs. Blizzard can then also balance arena on the fly by simply tweaking the chance of drafting certain mana cost cards on the fly. The most important thing in arena is staying on curve and playing tempo every turn. So have the draft be based around that makes way more sense than any sort of unbalanced rarity quality disparity among classes.
If every class has the exact same chance of drafting a 1 drop, 2 drop, 3 drop, 4 drop etc etc.
Possible quick and dirty solution: Increase arena occurrance of class rare cards to the level comparable to common cards.
What if they did a guaranteed system for Arena??
First 20 cards are common card pools
21-27 are rare card pools
28-30 are epic or legendary card pools
Something similar to this anyways, I could see it working and make Arena more consistent I feel.
I play a lot of magic and in their sealed format as you probably know you just work with pack in which the number of commons uncommons and rares is always (sometimes different in some sets) the the same. it might be nice if instead of the base 3 rares you get in hearthstone while everything beyond that being random, they would make it some that everyone always get the same amount of rares, epics and legend. I don't know what the amount should be, but everyone getting 18 commons, 7 rares, 4 epics and 1 legend in each run might be good. It will prolly not balance the classes but at least it would make the ups and downs further apart.
The solution is the constant number of rare card. For example, every deck can have 1 legendary, 3 epics, 5 rares and fill others with common. That's it!
P.S.: The numbers can be different.
The way ranked should work is your first game is random whether you start first or second, then the next game the opposite. So if you started going 1st next game you go 2nd then game after that 1st again. that would make a big difference.
I was wondering why they didn't do this when I saw his going 2nd stats video.
Probably because it would add another requirement to matchmaking, always needing to include a going first-guy and a going second-/first game of the night-guy. In other words, it'd cut away half the possible match ups for every player, every game. Still worth it? Possibly, but matchmaking times would be longer, and chances of running into the same guy multiple times in a row would increase.
The Rabbitoak thats a good point. just really annoys me. I had a 3-3 run earlier where 5 games i went 2nd. I was lucky to get 3 wins. then yesterday i went 11-3 with a really shit deck ha.
The Rabbitoak The upside is, winning more because you may go first more, facing the same guy could be a blessing cause you know the deck, and I much rather have a longer queue time than my odds of winning reduced. But for me it doesn't matter as I don't play this game much. I merely watch it for entertainment and kripp puts me to sleep at night lol.
Gromitz101 His voice is perfect for having a nap after dinner too, actually. And like I tried to say earlier, changing matchmaking might still be worth it , but there'd be a price is all.
EleGiggle I'm KRIPPARIAN, and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old lady Rania and my son, Big Dex. Every minute of my stream has a story and a price. One thing I've learned after 21 years of salt - you never know WHAT they're gonna pay me to play EleGiggle
Nice.
I think they should make arena like sealed in Magic: the Gathering, you open X many packs and build your deck out of that.
That actually could be a tavern brawl :p
That chillmaw deathwing was insane
I wonder how differently that game would have gone if Kripp had killed the Sen'jin on turn 4 by playing Razorfen Hunter and Boar then trading. He would've denied any use for the Lance Carrier, denied a full value off the Acolyte, had enough of a board to contest the Psycho-Tron, and would've been able to play Yeti and Blood imp on that turn, giving him two full turns to apply enough pressure to maybe make a difference.
I guess that's just me having a bad player mentality by not ensuring I have something to play the next turn since Kripp didn't know he'd get the Blood Imp, but I would think a growing Councilman is enough of a threat at the time to risk being 1 mana off curve on turn 5. Maybe I just suck and should stay in Twitch Chat where the other Rank 25's congregate.
Yes, because fuck Arena and the fact I get 30 common trash drops and my opponent drafted 3 Truesilver Champions.
thats because there is one of you and EVERYONE else is your opponent so statistically you are going to come across better decks and better players plus always have a few rares or greater.
3 truesilvers ? nice
Had 3 truesilvers in my arenadeck today lol. Got 10-3 :)
Truesilver is a common too.
It's literally impossible to draft 30 commons.
As a person whos played a lot of hearthstone AND chronicle runescape legends arena, I dont think its really that much more consistent in chronicle. If anything, I think chronicle is more inconsistent as you almost always have to find cards to combo into killing bigger cards, rather than being able to play stand alone cards like you normally do in hearthstone.
What I think is only legendries must have lower chance to be drafted when making deck
By this I mean epics and commons has equal chance to be drafted
But still you will find fewer epics than commons since number of commons are VERY HUGE compared to epics
Yet by this warriors can find brawl and your enemy will not say "oh secret... well ice block is epic so most likely its not that" when you play secret as mage
I think Blizzard should experiment with the idea of Arena-exclusive rarities. Only a small handful of Hearthstone's cards are complex enough to justify gating them off with Epic/Legendary status. There's a lot going on with Hearthstone's classes, and it may need to be ironed out with some small tweaks here and there.
pretty sure ben brode said they were planning to redo the arena drafting to not work off of rarity
Kripp sure has fun playing Hearthstone
Just make arena rarity based on how often the cards get picked. Cards that get picked every time they're an option simply show up a lot less often.That way it's impossible to get a deck full of only good to great cards and everybody would have to deal with some shitty cards as well.
Just played Mage with 4 faceless summoner and 2 portals very balanced indeed
I predict that kripperino will stop playing hs by the end of this year lol
Back to WoW it is!
+Nightstalker314 I wish.
wow is dead
Holly
let's just forget WoD ever happened and it's fine
+Metatranscendent Let's just forget everything after WotLK ever happend*
The salty tears of Kripp feeds my power, I'm almost powerful enough to take over the entire galaxy.
They should just give every card its own arena rarity; bronze, silver, gold, platinum. Something to help balance cards for both arena and ladder.
I don't really like RS Chronicles but I think the drafting system they have is much better. I believe every player gets the same number of rare cards, but correct me if I'm wrong
Kripp thanks for this video. I think you are spot on with the arbitrary rarity determination.
Ben said that Blizzard was working on something that wouldn't rely on rarity.
For drafting that is.
How about adopting the standard / wild format to the arena system. I think there would be enough people playing both formats. There were also doubts about enough ppl playing wild in ranked, but it is still around and it will get more and more popular over time when people want to have that retro feeling of playing with their old cards. Arena needs something like this sooner or later, like standard / modern / legacy in magic tcg.
every time I watch a kripp vid I get a blizzard add.
i've been there, a mage shot firelands portal when he was losing hard to my hunter and low and behold he gets halaziel, freaking halaziel and wouldn't u know it, he had a 2nd flamelance to help him win a definite losing match
I really think it's stupid that the rarity of cards you get in arena is random. I think it should be a fixed number (like 16 commons, 8 rares, 4 epics & 2 legendaries, or something like that)ecause even then there's gonna be a huge variance in card quality. But Blizz wants more random in their random
I don't think cards should have a biger or lesser chance of beeing drafted based on their rarity, I think any card, even legendarys, should have an equal chance to be drafted at any point
The Arena mode is broken. Simples..
In my last arena run I went 2-3, and faced 6 legendaries: Sylvanas, Cairne, Rag, Grommash, Blingtron, and Shifter Zerus. Is this normal?
They should do it where you open
'X' packs where you don't keep the cards and then you choose a hero based off of the cards you pull and then make a 30 card deck, easy
Man I laughed so hard when it turned out that the dragon was deathing. Lol that some magnicifent bullshit right there.
Ben Brode said they were working on a new drafting system not based on rarities in his Purify video.
Fingers crossed.
Hmmm.....what if you picked cards from a pool of 5 instead of 3?
5:10 Misplay - should've gone for the summon 3 and trade, leaving him with a 4/2, 2/3 and a 1/1 against an empty board.
Only solution is a complete rebalance of rarities and capping legendaries to one with a higher chance to get it (or 100%). But that's a huge amount of work, and I doubt Ben Brode wants to do it.
i think everyone should have a minimum of each rarity card.
Like 2 legendary 6 epic 10 rare and 12 common and draft that way. You can build a realy deck like that because you can build around those legendary of your.
They should give you at least one choice between Moroes, Moroes and Moroes. That would make it quite consistent
Also,as they add more cards, variance just goes up with each expansion, and the majority of decks seems to get worse and worse.
I definitely not the best Arena player, but I played couple of runs last weekend. While my average of about 5 wins seems to have stuck. I got more 10-12 win decks than I ever have previously. It felt like 12 wins or 1-3.
The Dream deck is getting stronger and stronger every expansion, not just with the stupid cards they are releasing, but also because every deck that isn't the dream is getting worse and worse with all the trash that gets released also.
Kripp loses: "He had every possible answer and he topdecks a whisp"
Kripp wins: "Eeeeasy game boys"
I bloody predicted that Deathwing lol I had a feeling it was going to be him
Are there any cards which hasn't been Kripperino-fied?
Yes, arena needs to be less RNG (a long with the rest of the game)
It is obvious that Arena is supposed to be chaotic and random but the class balance is the only real problem. It could be remedied by changing rarities but then Blizzard loses money by making staple cards easy to come by for constructed. The point is supposed to be that sometimes you get absolute shit and sometimes you get a constructed quality deck.
I've noticed that A LOT of the people playing arena are very new accounts with experienced players playing them for the free go at it.
That's one of the best mage decks you've seen? What?!
he throws around the words best and worst like its nothing so take his analysis of decks with a grain of salt, or a pound depending on just how OP the other players cards are
General rule of thumb is anything that could be expected to go 12 wins slots into his 'one of the best' list
huge toad (okay 2 drop)
flamecannon (good removal)
sen'jin shieldmasta (good 4 drop)
lance carrier (okay 2 drop)
acolyte of pain (good 3 drop)
psych-o-tron (okay 5 drop) x2
flamestrike (very good board clear)
firelands portal (good removal)
flamewaker (good 3 drop)
dire wolf alpha (good 2 drop)
kvaldir raider (good late game card)
bloodsail corsair (meh 1 drop)
argent commander (decent 6 drop)
river crocolisk (okay 2 drop)
kobold geomancer (meh 2 drop)
cone of cold (decent board-clear-like)
ehtereal arcanist (bad 4 drop)
spiteful smith (meh 5 drop)
chillmaw (decent legendary taunt, had activator for deathrattle)
deathwing (insane legendary, one of the best if not the best to get in arena)
burly rockjaw trogg (okay 4 drop)
water elemental (good 4 drop)
tauren warrior (meh 3 drop)
This is 24/30 cards revealed.
All the cards were overall very high quality, the most important part was plenty of removal and a deathwing, a boardclear, multiple taunts, several good drops for their spot, only one really "bad" card (ethereal arcanist) so yeah, pretty much, this is one of the best mage decks you'll see in arena.
Unless the 6 other cards were all complete crap but it's doubtful, and even if they were, deathwing is a big deal in arena.
If you disagree either it's because you don't play arena, or because you don't play arena a lot and got a small sample size that skewed your perceptions.
Onilateur your rating on a lot of those cards are just wrong.
would making each of the three cards you can choose from have a chance at being above common make it more fair? then there is a 0-90 chance of getting rare or above rather than 0-30.
my reasoning is that if you have a bigger "choice pool" so to speak then you will get a broader average. with less chance of getting a rediculously good/bad deck
the concentration of salt in Kripps tears is too damn high
What is your favorite Hearthstone class? www.strawpoll.me/10992023/
lol, everyone is trolling
i know dont trick me
Priest ftw. Purify to op
Kripp, do an elder scrolls legends video please! I think you'd really enjoy it!
Didn't Ben Brode already say they'd be taking a look at this and making a new system for Arena that's not based on rarity?
I just got a shaman arena run with a tier avarage of 72.5 with basically everything you could ask for except maybe a few boardclears, anyway... it ends up 2-3... the first game my opponent plays a turn 9 ysera and when I hex it it turns out the secret he played with kirin two turns earlier was counterspell, in my last game my opponent double eviscerated my earth elemental and then plays thaurissan followed by 3 comboed shadopans and a boulderfist and in my and on top of that I only got basic totems out of all the maybe 8 tuskarrs I played... wtf
7:50 YAAAAY!!! SALTY KRIPP BECAUSE OF ME!!!
I think so, In my Hs experience i got one 12 win, 2 9 wins a bunch of 6-7 wins and a lot of 1-3 wins, yes im a bad player, but when i got a mage i shine. when i got a togue /shamman i suck. i think it should be rebalanced and stff
Can somebody teach me how to play arena? I had yesterday one run with a score of 70.2 and got only 1 win...
How bout a rotation (that community votes for) every month that has like 10-20 cards that will have a higher chance of appearing?
you could pretty much fix this by giving out 40 cards and allowing the player to bin 10 of them. if that's too complicated for newbies (how it can be more complicated than understanding what is good in arena I have no idea) then add an automated system to weed out crap. Bam. Arena has just become a real drafting format. Congratulations, you have taken your first step out of the RNG shit swamp.
Ben brode over the twitter Q&A he did a few days back said that he and hearthstone in general might be considering changing something about area
like how certain cards will apper and so on
TBH at 5:15 just go razorfen + boar to clear the senjin. why would you yeti there?
*opponent pulls chillmaw out of their ass AND deathwing* wtf arena
That's why I don't play arena, I am so unlucky that I won't get a single good deck and arena seems to purely depends on which deck is better and your card draws/opening hand that plus it being paid and I only do arena in my secondary account (still rarely)
Taking inspiration from DOTA's random draft...what about arena not having classes but rather you get presented cards from all classes, and at the end you get to pick any one of the 9 hero powers available.
And/or your first pick is always a legendary, then the next 4 are legendaries and the next 10 are rares.