david lassell its crazy you can get the best dirt bike (kawasaki) for like 10 thousand. i need a fucken proper garage n shit. anyway just wanted to go on bout my friend got a $1000 bose speaker, sounds like shit! plastic cabinet. wifi. fucking shit. on that topic this lady tryin to cut in front of me in the que at the dj store lookin at me like im a bum i heard what her family has a fucking 300 buck home theater system a bloody skyteck sky tower or some bullshit like that. better be nice to people cos you never know who they might be... especially if it looks like they got a ducati that is a fast fucking bike. oh my god.
I have a pair of Polk's in my car that were not very loud until they were plaid for a few hours. I was redy to pull them out at first until they opened up. Other reviewed said the same about the particular model. I think there is some truth to breaking in the speakers but people do grossly exaggerate it.
Chicxulub65MM I think this is correct for most home speakers. There are car speakers that are built with different materials, to last longer with the temperature and humidity ranges expected for an outdoor location, that do sadly need to be flexed longer, and more aggressively before they start to run consistently. Many times, this also means, especially at lower temperatutes, that a warm up time is needed each time they are used... One thing I hate about car speakers...
I worked for JBL during the 70's and they made their own drivers. We had 5 EE's in the Xducer lab, including Greg Timbers and Don Keele Jr. The loudspeakers were unbelievable, however, those days are long gone. Today there are so many excellent drivers available to the general public, many as good as the JBL drivers. I like your discussions and do include "Cognitive Dissonance".
JBL hearkens back to days when Northridge, CA was the hub of all things sound related. Companies like JBL and the likes where doing all of the ground breaking research that all of today's speaker and HI-FI manufacturers get to build upon. It's kind of funny watching the car audio guys "discover" things that have been known about many years. Now a days they are more up to speed but back in the 80's and 90's most where pretty clueless. JBL has always made their own drivers and are often times manufacturing other peoples speakers like they said. They still employ some of the top engineers in the field.
namzarf I almost stopped watching as soon as he said that... How can someone even have a Mr. Spock standup, and make that mistake? I guess it is either not his, or he did not buy it.
I got a set of KEF iQ90 towers and I love their sound, but I also can't really afford to replace them, so I'd have to be content with them regardless, so it's a good thing for me that they do actually sound great. Edit: One of the best ways I've seen to show demonstrable flaws in a loudspeaker's driver selections and crossover design is to use a waterfall frequency response graph over time. So you play your sample of white noise or whatever all-frequency noise sample, then cut the playback and trim the time span to the maximum amplitude, then to where the decay reaches approximately nominal amplitude. Then you can generate a waterfall plot using the intervening time frame. This can show you not only characteristics of the decay and internal resonance within the cabinet, but also constructive and destructive interference at the crossover points due to things like driver phase, differences in driver agility, etc. That way, you don't need to always abstract things to a listening impression of the sound. Instead, you can point to the plot and show exactly where, when, and how those choices are detrimental to the loudspeaker design.
I was impressed by your thoroughness, and humor. At the risk of sounding like Johnny One-Note, I think you two are probably aware of Parts-Express and their speaker and powered sub-woofer kits. Any chance that you'd review some of these. They are fairly simple to put together and seem to offer a very good value. I would appreciate a more objective opinion as to their performance.
Such a great video! Fully agree with it, especially regarding companies that tend to introduce new versions and models every year. BTW, one of the most impressive speakers I could listen to in a mastering studio quite some years back is the grand ‚Regie Monitor‘ from the company Geithain. They have kept their line up stable over many years because their customers, mostly broadcasting companies and studios need products they can repurchase even after years as replacement or for another studio. Also, these professional users often running dozens of pairs of those monitors do regular inspections of their gear to make sure everything is OK and they can rely on the performance for live broadcasting and mastering. If I had enough space in my listening room I would go most likely with a pair of those - and no more amp and cabling discussions any more. But consumers want a new toy every other year, and the industry serves them which is good from an economic perspective - keep money flowing.
As far as speaker break in, I had never heard of this until last year after I bought a pair of Monitor Audio RX8 Silver towers. When I got them home and hooked them, these expensive and good rated speakers were lacking bass. I called a friend that told me that they need a break in period. I played these speakers for about two days and to my surprise, they now had a nice bass.
SPOILER! That granite cabinet speaker is made by RBH Sound. I live down the street from them and I know Shane the chief engineer (I'm an audio nut and electrical engineer myself), and Shane demoed those speakers for me. They are INCREDIBLE! I was sitting in their demo room and I wasn't sitting centered to the speakers. Instinctively I was leaning towards the center at first but quickly realized that these speakers had the widest sound stage and 'sweet spot' I've ever heard. The detail was amazing.
Yeah I think the adapting to sound really fits the bill, I remember when I just started getting into car audio and wanted something not too expensive and easy to install so I bought some Alpine SPR 60s, after I listened to them for this first time I thought they sounded okay but not great. As they aged though they started to sound a lot better over time. I started to like them so much that I even decided to seal up my doors and buy deadening because I knew in the future I would upgrade anyways. They sounded so much better after I did that.
As someone who owned many speakers (studio monitors etc) and headphones (DJ/studio brands) I can guarantee there is an extremely notable difference in some brands... I will always run my headphones for a day or two.
19:44 I agree; I tried some Bose speakers, which I actually still have and use, and they have this weird design-principle of using reflections behind the speakers and so on, which of course is based on when you put speakers close to walls and all that, but they sound really solid. - Not the best; They have a very significant high-end roll-off as well as a lack of deep bass, but they do shine if you turn up the highs with the EQ and give a good kick if you turn up the lows. They're really strong in the mids, however, perhaps a bit too much, but they definitely sound strong and quite rich at the same time. - They're just not bad. - Are they inaccurate with their own character and for consumers? Definitely, even though I use them as something of an audiophile, musician and audio-producer (though, just for casual rockin' out to). But definitely not bad or low quality. - I think Bose just became one of those brands that got a bad image and rep because of how they do things differently, or to many "incorrectly" or "improperly". - I'm not a fanboy or anything, I just have this one set of speakers and I've also heard other sets of Bose speakers that were impressive. - But there's definitely way worse stuff out there. - For example; I also have a set of Wharfedales, which have this much more traditional design of upright rectangle mid-sized speakers and no trickery, but they lack mids and their tweeters are unpleasant. Though then they have much better low-end, so I kinda combined those and the Bose ones to make a more complete range, interestingly enough. What's even more interesting is that I have a cheaper set of AKAI speakers from the '90s, which are definitely more on the consumer-side, and they're much more "neutral" than either of the sets I mentioned before. - So you really have to tackle each product individually.
Good job. Very astute comments. Especially good on you for revealing the bull crap behind speaker "break in" and the main reason possibly being to exceed the satisfaction / return policy. Gotta look out for the consumer. Yes, there is a tiny bit of some compliance issues, but for the most part, a load of crap. I will say, you take them out of your cars in "0" degree weather, into a 78 degree home, you might have some issues until certain components warm up and become less stiff. In most cases, I can tell fairly quickly if I want to keep something. Another thing I do if I am having a hard time with if I think it is any degree better than my current gear is, play the component for a good week, then remove it and see if and how I miss anything, emotionally or objectively from the equation. Even then, if it was that hard to determine, why spend the money? Tip of the hat to Toole! gotta love Harmon's "How to Listen" definitely fun and helpful.
I remember when consumer reports tested speakers and the Dahlquist DQ-10 didn't do well. If you look at the frequency response curve while it wasn't exactly flat it had none of the ringing that all the other speakers had. Each range of each driver was ruler flat with no ringing. I decided I had enough of the distortion in conventional speakers and went electrostatic.
Big fan of Dr. Floyd Toole, read some papers he wrote on acoustics. Reading about the work he did at Harmon audio helped me decide on Infinity interlude speakers and their CMMD drivers, very smooth, listenable and musical speakers. Have been happy with them for 16 years now and no desire to change. I'd have to spend $5000 to get an improvement in performance.
The reason I say woofers and subwoofers for break-in. Is because I've seen plenty of subwoofers fail in the car audio industry if not properly broken in usually a spider will come detached from the basket or even will tear or the voice coil comes unwound. Seen it happen hundreds of times and that was at RMS power.
Also what’s frequently seen is companies highlighting 5 studies that line up with what they are after but don’t tell you about the 75 others that are contrary to what they suggest.
My PMC twenty 22 took a little while to loosen up. Only the mid bass driver though. I know it wasn't my imagination because I blew one driver whilst tipsy and when I replaced it with a new one it took the same amount of time roughly for them to sing in harmony again!
When I worked in a stereo store we didn't just play them to break them in. We pointed them at each other and hooked one out of phase and ran them overnight. The bass would tighten up and sound better.
I HAVE A PAIR OF THOSE TOWER SPEAKERS 🔊 ( MY FATHER IN LAW GOT THOSE FROM SOME GUYS IN NEW YORK). I STILL HAVE THEM BUT I CHANGE EVERYTHING FROM THE SUBWOOFERS , TWITTERS AND CROSSOVERS PLUS I HAVE TO DO SOME WORK ON THE INSIDE TO MAKE THE CABINETS MORE RIGID (PARTS EXPRESS PARTS) . NOW THEY SOUND GREAT AFTER $300 DOLLARS ! THE GOOD THING IS I DID PAY FOR THE SPEAKERS 🔊 THE FIRST TIME, IT WAS LIKE A SPEAKER BOX PROJECT.
On speaker break-in; There might be some truth to companies wanting people to keep trying speakers long enough to become used to it, thinking they're "breaking them in", so that they exceed the return period and all that. - But I think that's more the case for the hi-fi world, both that practice and also hi-fi speakers not really needing to "break in". However, I think it's more of a reality with things like guitar-speakers. Those speakers are made to be driven really hard and even create their own distortion at times, and guitar-speaker companies definitely recommend breaking them in intentionally. The thing is, though, they don't usually claim that you need to let them play for a certain amount of time, like hundreds to thousands of hours. They usually tell you to use the EQ to push the lows, mids and highs as far as possible for a while at decent (but safe) volumes to actually shake up the speakers. You can just do that for a while and that should be enough to "break in" the speakers. And again, they actually recommend that to really bring it to life, not to let you keep it past some kind of return-period, because otherwise it might actually not sound its best and sound or feel kind of "dead". In my experience, there's truth to that; I had bought a 2x12" cabinet and it was a little underwhelming in terms of sound for the first while. And yea, even though I did have to get used to the sound, I did notice a significant difference in "life" to the sound in some time. It sounded "looser" in terms of how it pushes air and also in harmonic content. - But again, this is 12" guitar-speakers being pushed quite strongly by a guitar-amplifier, which is all designed to do that (with a lot of force and all that). Now, because of that I believe similar things apply to larger hi-fi speakers as well, basically like what was said in this video. - Tweeters and such aren't really the same in nature, they don't move the same way and they produce different kinds of sounds. They're probably also way more fragile. But say the 8"+ speakers, the ones you can actually SEE move more clearly, they would benefit from some "break in" or a "warm up" period to start producing to their capabilities. It's also kind of a tuning or getting attuned to the setup. It definitely doesn't hurt to turn back and forth the EQ-knobs/settings to the extremes for a bit to let the speakers "stretch their legs" so to speak. And if it does hurt something, they probably aren't good enough speakers.
@24:20...bad review in the press? When do you ever see that today? Just about all the reviews these days are glowing. Makes you wonder. This is a great video!
I love my NHT speakers. I have the SuperTwo as my floorstanding and I remember clearly choosing them over Bose. To this day it's all NHT for me. SuperZero and the SuperOne I have for surrounds. I'll put their sound up against any other brand, especially in the price range.
I used to sell audio... including high end equipment. Different stores attracted different types of listeners. Some listeners want to be told they are not missing anything - that its all the power of suggestion. They love hearing those words. That way they do not feel like they might be missing out on something, and those who tell them there is more to it, they can now see as jerks. Gene and Hugo has their select audience. Those who wants to be told that those having transparent systems are imagining things. That such things as power cords and interconnects are a joke. Well? We find churches with stupid preachers being filled with large congregations because they tell the people what they want to be told. Not telling them what they need to hear. Such is life. Its everywhere.
You touched on the mark 2 myth which has always bothered me. You also mention 10 year old speakers can still be great. This would make a great article on your website. Great speakers from 10-15 years ago that we maybe able to find at bargain prices on ebay.
Robert Bell Along with that, I can not count how many times I have heard from various people, and even read in various puplications, that not only do speakers age and deteriorate over time, so a speaker over 10 years old needs to be replaced since it has exceeded it's useful life, but also that any speaker over 10 years older is just bad compared to a speaker built with current technology. When I hear, or read these claims. I can tell immediately that it is unlikely anything else that has or will be discussed in the context can be fully ignored also as just comments trying to make a sale. The only thing I have seen, and heard, about speaker aging is material failure. Poor construction, and some materials can and do change over time, use, and even ambient conditions. Pressboard can absorb moisture from the air and swell. Foam surrounds can harden and rot. Voice coils can be over-driven and swell and even open. So any speaker not stored and used properly can be turned to junk, and any well built speaker is possible to last a very long time if treated and stored properly. The only one that may be a real time bomb is the foam surrounds, but even then it will depend on how the foam was made. I have seen some foam surrounds fail within 10 years, where others are still working well over 30 years later, IN THE SAME ROOM AND USE CONDITIONS!
I love this channel wish i found you guys before, i am so sick of these yuppie wanne-bee audiophiles that fall for the huge amounts of bullshit. And even worse trying to sell it as gospel!
@@SealofPerfection At one point a particular Bose loudspeaker had 1/3 market share--that's some pretty good marketing right there. Vance Packard, call your office!
I always thought the loudspeaker break-in myth evolved from the performance over time of 1950s era speakers which were made from paper. Possibly those speakers did change significantly over time. As a guitarist we see this all the time. People like the warmth from these old amplifier cabinets. The speakers are decades old and sound different from the same cabinet with new speakers with a preference for the old speaker. Not that the speaker really needs to break-in before it is optimal, but that the paper cones used back in the day changed significantly over time and people liked the resulting change. Who knows, maybe paper speakers did need to break in before sounding better, but how many quality speaker cones are being made with paper now? Exactly nobody. With the composite materials being used now, I bet there is absolutely no measurable or listenable difference in the speaker over years of use. It's like you said, people are adapting to the speakers that are being made today.
ive always had high end audio equip. And ive never heard of driver "breaking in" I however always let my speakers "warm up" before playing them loudly, as to get them moving so to speak. similar thing I guess
In a store, speakers connected for comparison, have resistors connected in series, and resistor values are roughly inversly related to speaker's... no, not sensitivity, but price ;-)
I have listened to a pair of those RBH speakers on that chair and WOW. My wife and I were blown away at the sound stage. I kept opening my eyes thinking where are all the other speakers! They must be hidden! LOL not! Love the info in the myth busting.
Audio Research was telling the world a few years ago that their new class D amplifier design took hundreds of hours to break in before it sounded its best. They discontinued that model and went back to tubes and class A-B designs. A need to break in usually equals something wrong with the design.
I beg to differ. I'm a differ beggar. I've had an Altec Lansing subwoofer satellite combo for serveral years. While I agree the high frequency drivers don't change that much, I have noticed that my sub has become much deeper and smoother over the years. This came as a bit of a shock to me as I wasn't even looking for it. Even my guests (some whom I hadn't seen in months) noticed the change, and asked if I had upgraded. I believe that some speakers will benefit over time, although I see your point from a marketing perspective. However, I can't see all manufacturers being so underhanded.
I had a dumb friend in college that bought speakers from a white van "Liquid cooled man!". Anyway he did not get ripped off that bad, he talked them down to like 120 bucks and they sounded as good as some 300 dollar Bose 301's his roommate had.
Break in is true, my AKG K612 came very harsh out of the box, but with time, the highs got softer and the bass got more pronounced, it took like 100 hours to break it in...
I have experienced this with some speakers but not all. I borrowed a demo pair and tested then out at home, sounded great. Then I bought a pair, brand new, same model and brand, used them in the same setup, same placement. They did not sound like the borrowed ones before after 70hours.
Never heard a differance with mids or tweeters but definately with woofers. It doesn't take long to break them in though, maybe a day. Thing is I haven't bought a speaker with anything less than twin 8" woofers in decades. I'm not talking break in on those little 4" to 5" mid bass drivers in those "high" end book shelf speakers but real woofers.
Excellent! Thumbs up easily. I'm very surprised this revealing, enlightening video did not get far more thumbs up! Yes, I know exactly what you are talking about when the application of science is seriously considered. Within first year at university I studied first year psychology, philosophy, so I am aware of a logical approach, thus a part of what we all call scientific, and the correct results are important!. Effects are a bit different than results, as the esteemed exercise researcher Arthur Jones researched, and wrote about; who was the developer of Nautilus exercise machines, and chairman of MedX machines explained. Furthermore, Mike Mentzer would agree, and he would have the same rational point of view, and logical, practical approach.
Man, you have me wanting granite cabinets. I would think the weight would negate "action and reaction". When the speaker moves air it also shakes the cabinet in the opposite direction.
This is way beyond what even a skilled audio enthusiast can understand. It just makes us feel stupid. Try using terms and descriptions that more than 1 in a million people will understand.
Concerning the car comparison: only cars in a similar price range are compared by testing institutions. Measurements like miles per hour, gallons per kilometer or maximum speed or price are easily comparable and no one doubts, that a 60 000$ car offers more values than a 20 000$ car. You can experience all by yourself. But the sonic difference between a 350$ amp and a 3500$ amp can only be revealed in a double blind test carefully leveled with instantaneously switching between both of them if at all. Other differences like built qualities, brand image, connectivity and so on are a matter of taste.
I never heard a bad sounding Bose speaker. Bose for me had nothing to do with marketing, they just sounded better than any other speakers I heard. Yes I never heard high end speakers untill I got older. Now of course I know where they stand compared to other brands for the money, but the 1984 201s I still have, still sound pretty good. Considering you can get a nice pair of those series 2s for $40 nowadays, its not a bad buy. If your just starting out you could do worse.
I used to think speaker break-in was a myth until I bought JLabs headphones and they recommended to break in. I think they mellowed out the high end and deepened the bass. So, not sure I would cancel out speaker break-in.
Dean just find what you want you can afford and live with it. My system a 15 year old Panasonic Plasm S TV, an Onkyo TX NR 626 AV receiver, 202 Elac centre channel Speaker and mains are Elac 310.2 Jet. Bass is great in my room and radio is perfect, DVD Roar. Cheap is me
Hi Gene/Hugo, so if the drivers are made by many of the same manufactures, then what separates one speaker company from one another? Is it the cabinet design? or the materials used? Essentially it sounds like you're saying that the drivers used in Bose could be the same ones used in B&W's, or JBL and Bang & Olufsen. If the drivers are bought from the same place, then what makes a company selling car speakers any different from the next?
Crossover integration plays a vital role in how well a speaker system will perform. Believe it or not, this is where many manufacturers struggle, especially when farming everything out to China. Cabinets also play a big role in sound quality. Although speaker brand A and speaker brand B may use the same drivers, it doesn't mean the end products will be "similarly good".
Audioholics ok I'll have to learn about cross over integration. are there any speaker companies that manufacture all their own parts, specifically the drivers? Also I've been recommended to buy "quality" expensive speakers that kinda look like ugly cabinets.. yet it seems like some high end speakers are famous for asthetics and I might be paying for looks disproportionately to quality sounds. bias factor of appearance.
Most companies that claim to manufacturer their own parts simply use OEM stuff and have their supplier make tweaks to customize it for their needs. These tweaks are often nothing more than cosmetic. Aesthetics matter only if you want a speaker to look nice in your living space. Better looking doesn't mean better sounding.
Harman Int. does true Double Blind tests. And no one there is asked to call the best speaker. There are more specific questions regarding certain speaker sound characteristics.
You guys raised some nice points, but I feel like you should really learn how speaker/audio businesses operate. Many of these companies exist because of a love of audio, not simply to get wealthy. Drivers are customized to specs required for a particular speaker or series of speakers. Every design is different and this is why off the shelf drivers are generally inferior in the hands of a good designer. A good tweeter, for what it's worth, costs VERY little to make. Regarding driver burn in, on GR - Research has plenty of information on it's website about why it's a real thing with before and after measurement differences and how to interpret them. Also, a good reference for expanding your knowledge base for all things audio is Earl Geddes website.
I'm very familiar how the speaker/audio business works as I've not only been running this website for 17+ years, but have also been involved in designing and beta-testing audio equipment as an electrical engineer. Speaker burn-in is a myth. It takes minutes for a woofer to burn/break-in, and small diaphragms like tweeters don't burn-in. I am very familiar with both GR-Research (good products, some questionable theories) and Earl Geddes (doesn't quite get all things right about his theories on bass, but good info for the most part). Thanks for your comments.
Nice video regarding sound but i can't help reacting to the room's acoustics, which this video was recorded in.. I can appreciate personal acoustic preferences when it comes to listening environments like video entertainment and similar (we all don't hear the or even appreciate the same frequencies), but this room simply sounds like a "phone booth/toilet from Hell" to me. There's a extra terrestrially Low to higher mid range boom effect to put it mildly, that simply drives me nuts adding to injury is that I'm not even listening to it using my head phones!?.. :D
Carl Borsing The room acoustics in this space are very good actually. This is one of our early videos where we used the mic from the camera instead of a separate mic so that is why the sound quality is poor.
+Carl Borsing You can't just someone's room acoustics based on a video. The audio went through a microphone, a computer, editing and your speakers and any one of those can color the sound good or bad. The only way to judge the room acoustics of this room is to be there personally. Someone recording on a cheap handheld video recorder can make a professionally designed recording studio sound like crap.
+jeff darnell Actually you can, especially if you're listening to your material through high quality headphones. if you in doubt simply use other RUclips videos as reference material, then you shall find how they're all clearly appear with different ambiances? :)
@ Carl Borsing sorry but your greatly mistaken. This was an early video where we used the internal mic of the video camera 15 feet away from us. The acoustics of the room are NOT accurately represented by the audio you are hearing in our videos but its nice that you try to analyze.
Whilst I agree drivers break in mechanically pretty fast you forgot to mention sophisticated xovers. They take much longer. Not 1000’s of hours but certainly many hours.
Hi there, I want to Martin Logan ethos and want to use them in a 5.1 home theatre , I have a Denon avrx7200wa receiver Martin Logan fx2 at the rear and ML stage X centre , I have herd them in store, sound great , bit of timber in singers voices is missing if i am honest. But thought that wont matter to much in 5.1. I originality want the get the Martin Logan 60xt. i heard these speaker in two different shops, first shop (pre amp & power amp)( Yamaha both) sounded so so good ( in stereo ) second shop not so amazing ( just a receiver no power amp)(they used 3 types of amps during the demo ) something missing with all. anyway when i heard the Martin Logan ethos , they sounded better than the ML 60xt ( i also hear the dynaudio excite x38) ( great sound there too but still not as good as the Martin Logan ethos . so my question is are they good, bad or ugly for 5.1 ?? i keep reading that they are more for stereo music and i also have read the the tower speakers are not so so important for 5.1 . if this is true i could of saved some money and put it towards a very nice amp. what do u guys think.
Lucky Design I gave up on surround sound for music. I scrapped my system and went back to stereo because I listen to music a lot more than I watch movies.
It also doesn't SEEM like I should be able to jump 50" vertical off the floor, and get my head over the basketball rim, as a 6' tall white guy, but I could... I Wonder if that fits in with their research??🤣👍
Did you see at 2019 that guy with the - Wooden Drivers spinning Grace Jones saying... Isnt this heavenly lolllllll Did you hear TAD ME-1s ..... They sounded EPIC
When you mentioned the difference between one model and then next year the "new" version two model, I cannot help but think of Klipsch RF-7 vs RF-7 II. The only difference is the upgraded crossovers and about $1600 lol Also, what were you referring to when you said you listened to a 400 speaker setup that claimed to be the same as a much more expensive one? I felt the same way when I first heard Andrew Jones.
nothing unusual about that but good point. Positioning your speakers for optimal performance is critical. When comparing multiple speakers simultaneously its nearly impossible to place each pair in their ideal location and no also not have them adversely affect the sound of each other just by being in close proximity.
It just caught me off guard. I really agree with everything you were saying. I use to work in the high end industry but I am always listening to how thing are recorded weather it is music or something on the internet. Its just a distraction for me.
@@Audioholics I have a feeling you fine folks are not photography/video enthusiasts -- just a hunch! A couple of extra fixed position close-up cameras would really make the videos pop nicely IMO.
Ohh and if your going to test equipment take music that you listen to and know very well... that's an easy way to see if you like the new stuff... of course the sound in your house my very... long listening tests to... several times...
New speaker test procedure. Company reps go to Audioholics. The guy who beats Hugo at arm wrestling wins the test!
david lassell its crazy you can get the best dirt bike (kawasaki) for like 10 thousand. i need a fucken proper garage n shit. anyway just wanted to go on bout my friend got a $1000 bose speaker, sounds like shit! plastic cabinet. wifi. fucking shit. on that topic this lady tryin to cut in front of me in the que at the dj store lookin at me like im a bum i heard what her family has a fucking 300 buck home theater system a bloody skyteck sky tower or some bullshit like that. better be nice to people cos you never know who they might be... especially if it looks like they got a ducati that is a fast fucking bike. oh my god.
Your joke make Hugo laugh!!
It's not about breaking in the speaker, it's about breaking in the listener.
I have a pair of Polk's in my car that were not very loud until they were plaid for a few hours. I was redy to pull them out at first until they opened up. Other reviewed said the same about the particular model.
I think there is some truth to breaking in the speakers but people do grossly exaggerate it.
some car audio spl based 5k watt plus rms subs are so stiff you cant push them in i could see a benefit from a free air break in or im i wrong?
Chicxulub65MM I think this is correct for most home speakers.
There are car speakers that are built with different materials, to last longer with the temperature and humidity ranges expected for an outdoor location, that do sadly need to be flexed longer, and more aggressively before they start to run consistently. Many times, this also means, especially at lower temperatutes, that a warm up time is needed each time they are used... One thing I hate about car speakers...
Well said, Chicxulub65MM.
😂
I worked for JBL during the 70's and they made their own drivers. We had 5 EE's in the Xducer lab, including Greg Timbers and Don Keele Jr. The loudspeakers were unbelievable, however, those days are long gone. Today there are so many excellent drivers available to the general public, many as good as the JBL drivers. I like your discussions and do include "Cognitive Dissonance".
JBL hearkens back to days when Northridge, CA was the hub of all things sound related. Companies like JBL and the likes where doing all of the ground breaking research that all of today's speaker and HI-FI manufacturers get to build upon. It's kind of funny watching the car audio guys "discover" things that have been known about many years. Now a days they are more up to speed but back in the 80's and 90's most where pretty clueless. JBL has always made their own drivers and are often times manufacturing other peoples speakers like they said. They still employ some of the top engineers in the field.
JBL's poly mid was superb, as were the woofers.
I guess you were their genius, then, because JBL has been shyte since the 80's.
That is *"Mr."* Spock...not Dr. Spock. ( 0:43 )
Live long and prosper.
namzarf You’re Spock on....
namzarf I almost stopped watching as soon as he said that...
How can someone even have a Mr. Spock standup, and make that mistake? I guess it is either not his, or he did not buy it.
I got a set of KEF iQ90 towers and I love their sound, but I also can't really afford to replace them, so I'd have to be content with them regardless, so it's a good thing for me that they do actually sound great.
Edit: One of the best ways I've seen to show demonstrable flaws in a loudspeaker's driver selections and crossover design is to use a waterfall frequency response graph over time. So you play your sample of white noise or whatever all-frequency noise sample, then cut the playback and trim the time span to the maximum amplitude, then to where the decay reaches approximately nominal amplitude. Then you can generate a waterfall plot using the intervening time frame. This can show you not only characteristics of the decay and internal resonance within the cabinet, but also constructive and destructive interference at the crossover points due to things like driver phase, differences in driver agility, etc. That way, you don't need to always abstract things to a listening impression of the sound. Instead, you can point to the plot and show exactly where, when, and how those choices are detrimental to the loudspeaker design.
i love this channel because you guys are no BS.
oh they are that too
Well... Less or different BS at least...
Digital speakers, please! I don't even need speakers, I just plug the optical cable straight in my brain.
I was impressed by your thoroughness, and humor. At the risk of sounding like Johnny One-Note, I think you two are probably aware of Parts-Express and their speaker and powered sub-woofer kits. Any chance that you'd review some of these. They are fairly simple to put together and seem to offer a very good value. I would appreciate a more objective opinion as to their performance.
Such a great video! Fully agree with it, especially regarding companies that tend to introduce new versions and models every year.
BTW, one of the most impressive speakers I could listen to in a mastering studio quite some years back is the grand ‚Regie Monitor‘ from the company Geithain.
They have kept their line up stable over many years because their customers, mostly broadcasting companies and studios need products they can repurchase even after years as replacement or for another studio. Also, these professional users often running dozens of pairs of those monitors do regular inspections of their gear to make sure everything is OK and they can rely on the performance for live broadcasting and mastering. If I had enough space in my listening room I would go most likely with a pair of those - and no more amp and cabling discussions any more.
But consumers want a new toy every other year, and the industry serves them which is good from an economic perspective - keep money flowing.
As far as speaker break in, I had never heard of this until last year after I bought a pair of Monitor Audio RX8 Silver towers. When I got them home and hooked them, these expensive and good rated speakers were lacking bass. I called a friend that told me that they need a break in period. I played these speakers for about two days and to my surprise, they now had a nice bass.
SPOILER! That granite cabinet speaker is made by RBH Sound. I live down the street from them and I know Shane the chief engineer (I'm an audio nut and electrical engineer myself), and Shane demoed those speakers for me. They are INCREDIBLE!
I was sitting in their demo room and I wasn't sitting centered to the speakers. Instinctively I was leaning towards the center at first but quickly realized that these speakers had the widest sound stage and 'sweet spot' I've ever heard. The detail was amazing.
Yeah I think the adapting to sound really fits the bill, I remember when I just started getting into car audio and wanted something not too expensive and easy to install so I bought some Alpine SPR 60s, after I listened to them for this first time I thought they sounded okay but not great. As they aged though they started to sound a lot better over time. I started to like them so much that I even decided to seal up my doors and buy deadening because I knew in the future I would upgrade anyways. They sounded so much better after I did that.
As someone who owned many speakers (studio monitors etc) and headphones (DJ/studio brands) I can guarantee there is an extremely notable difference in some brands... I will always run my headphones for a day or two.
19:44 I agree; I tried some Bose speakers, which I actually still have and use, and they have this weird design-principle of using reflections behind the speakers and so on, which of course is based on when you put speakers close to walls and all that, but they sound really solid. - Not the best; They have a very significant high-end roll-off as well as a lack of deep bass, but they do shine if you turn up the highs with the EQ and give a good kick if you turn up the lows. They're really strong in the mids, however, perhaps a bit too much, but they definitely sound strong and quite rich at the same time. - They're just not bad. - Are they inaccurate with their own character and for consumers? Definitely, even though I use them as something of an audiophile, musician and audio-producer (though, just for casual rockin' out to). But definitely not bad or low quality. - I think Bose just became one of those brands that got a bad image and rep because of how they do things differently, or to many "incorrectly" or "improperly". - I'm not a fanboy or anything, I just have this one set of speakers and I've also heard other sets of Bose speakers that were impressive. - But there's definitely way worse stuff out there. - For example; I also have a set of Wharfedales, which have this much more traditional design of upright rectangle mid-sized speakers and no trickery, but they lack mids and their tweeters are unpleasant. Though then they have much better low-end, so I kinda combined those and the Bose ones to make a more complete range, interestingly enough.
What's even more interesting is that I have a cheaper set of AKAI speakers from the '90s, which are definitely more on the consumer-side, and they're much more "neutral" than either of the sets I mentioned before. - So you really have to tackle each product individually.
Good job. Very astute comments. Especially good on you for revealing the bull crap behind speaker "break in" and the main reason possibly being to exceed the satisfaction / return policy. Gotta look out for the consumer. Yes, there is a tiny bit of some compliance issues, but for the most part, a load of crap. I will say, you take them out of your cars in "0" degree weather, into a 78 degree home, you might have some issues until certain components warm up and become less stiff. In most cases, I can tell fairly quickly if I want to keep something. Another thing I do if I am having a hard time with if I think it is any degree better than my current gear is, play the component for a good week, then remove it and see if and how I miss anything, emotionally or objectively from the equation. Even then, if it was that hard to determine, why spend the money? Tip of the hat to Toole! gotta love Harmon's "How to Listen" definitely fun and helpful.
Dr. Spock? He had the famous child psychologist there, and i didn't even see him?!?!
I remember when consumer reports tested speakers and the Dahlquist DQ-10 didn't do well. If you look at the frequency response curve while it wasn't exactly flat it had none of the ringing that all the other speakers had. Each range of each driver was ruler flat with no ringing.
I decided I had enough of the distortion in conventional speakers and went electrostatic.
If someone asks me what I think of Bose, I tell them buying a Bose Lifestyle system is like buying a Smart Fortwo for an Audi TT price.
Big fan of Dr. Floyd Toole, read some papers he wrote on acoustics. Reading about the work he did at Harmon audio helped me decide on Infinity interlude speakers and their CMMD drivers, very smooth, listenable and musical speakers. Have been happy with them for 16 years now and no desire to change. I'd have to spend $5000 to get an improvement in performance.
The reason I say woofers and subwoofers for break-in. Is because I've seen plenty of subwoofers fail in the car audio industry if not properly broken in usually a spider will come detached from the basket or even will tear or the voice coil comes unwound. Seen it happen hundreds of times and that was at RMS power.
Also what’s frequently seen is companies highlighting 5 studies that line up with what they are after but don’t tell you about the 75 others that are contrary to what they suggest.
My PMC twenty 22 took a little while to loosen up. Only the mid bass driver though. I know it wasn't my imagination because I blew one driver whilst tipsy and when I replaced it with a new one it took the same amount of time roughly for them to sing in harmony again!
When I worked in a stereo store we didn't just play them to break them in.
We pointed them at each other and hooked one out of phase and ran them overnight.
The bass would tighten up and sound better.
I HAVE A PAIR OF THOSE TOWER SPEAKERS 🔊 ( MY FATHER IN LAW GOT THOSE FROM SOME GUYS IN NEW YORK). I STILL HAVE THEM BUT I CHANGE EVERYTHING FROM THE SUBWOOFERS , TWITTERS AND CROSSOVERS PLUS I HAVE TO DO SOME WORK ON THE INSIDE TO MAKE THE CABINETS MORE RIGID (PARTS EXPRESS PARTS) . NOW THEY SOUND GREAT AFTER $300 DOLLARS ! THE GOOD THING IS I DID PAY FOR THE SPEAKERS 🔊 THE FIRST TIME, IT WAS LIKE A SPEAKER BOX PROJECT.
Great video guys, lots of great info on the speaker industry.
Other than cable manufacturers there is more snake oil in speaker/headphone marketing than any other audio product. Great discussion.
You guy's should try to use better miking in your videos. Very boomy audio.
WIlliam Main Agreed. Our wireless mic is not working right so we had to use the internal mic of the CAM. Working on this for the next video.
On speaker break-in; There might be some truth to companies wanting people to keep trying speakers long enough to become used to it, thinking they're "breaking them in", so that they exceed the return period and all that. - But I think that's more the case for the hi-fi world, both that practice and also hi-fi speakers not really needing to "break in".
However, I think it's more of a reality with things like guitar-speakers. Those speakers are made to be driven really hard and even create their own distortion at times, and guitar-speaker companies definitely recommend breaking them in intentionally. The thing is, though, they don't usually claim that you need to let them play for a certain amount of time, like hundreds to thousands of hours. They usually tell you to use the EQ to push the lows, mids and highs as far as possible for a while at decent (but safe) volumes to actually shake up the speakers. You can just do that for a while and that should be enough to "break in" the speakers. And again, they actually recommend that to really bring it to life, not to let you keep it past some kind of return-period, because otherwise it might actually not sound its best and sound or feel kind of "dead".
In my experience, there's truth to that; I had bought a 2x12" cabinet and it was a little underwhelming in terms of sound for the first while. And yea, even though I did have to get used to the sound, I did notice a significant difference in "life" to the sound in some time. It sounded "looser" in terms of how it pushes air and also in harmonic content. - But again, this is 12" guitar-speakers being pushed quite strongly by a guitar-amplifier, which is all designed to do that (with a lot of force and all that).
Now, because of that I believe similar things apply to larger hi-fi speakers as well, basically like what was said in this video. - Tweeters and such aren't really the same in nature, they don't move the same way and they produce different kinds of sounds. They're probably also way more fragile. But say the 8"+ speakers, the ones you can actually SEE move more clearly, they would benefit from some "break in" or a "warm up" period to start producing to their capabilities. It's also kind of a tuning or getting attuned to the setup. It definitely doesn't hurt to turn back and forth the EQ-knobs/settings to the extremes for a bit to let the speakers "stretch their legs" so to speak. And if it does hurt something, they probably aren't good enough speakers.
@24:20...bad review in the press? When do you ever see that today? Just about all the reviews these days are glowing. Makes you wonder. This is a great video!
I love my NHT speakers. I have the SuperTwo as my floorstanding and I remember clearly choosing them over Bose. To this day it's all NHT for me. SuperZero and the SuperOne I have for surrounds. I'll put their sound up against any other brand, especially in the price range.
I used to sell audio... including high end equipment. Different stores attracted different types of listeners. Some listeners want to be told they are not missing anything - that its all the power of suggestion. They love hearing those words. That way they do not feel like they might be missing out on something, and those who tell them there is more to it, they can now see as jerks. Gene and Hugo has their select audience. Those who wants to be told that those having transparent systems are imagining things. That such things as power cords and interconnects are a joke. Well? We find churches with stupid preachers being filled with large congregations because they tell the people what they want to be told. Not telling them what they need to hear. Such is life. Its everywhere.
Your videos are very unique and informative. I have question, which speakers are good in these two; pioneer or hearts ?
And some speakers when you change rooms sound great in one room and stink in others....
You touched on the mark 2 myth which has always bothered me. You also mention 10 year old speakers can still be great. This would make a great article on your website. Great speakers from 10-15 years ago that we maybe able to find at bargain prices on ebay.
Robert Bell Along with that, I can not count how many times I have heard from various people, and even read in various puplications, that not only do speakers age and deteriorate over time, so a speaker over 10 years old needs to be replaced since it has exceeded it's useful life, but also that any speaker over 10 years older is just bad compared to a speaker built with current technology. When I hear, or read these claims. I can tell immediately that it is unlikely anything else that has or will be discussed in the context can be fully ignored also as just comments trying to make a sale.
The only thing I have seen, and heard, about speaker aging is material failure. Poor construction, and some materials can and do change over time, use, and even ambient conditions. Pressboard can absorb moisture from the air and swell. Foam surrounds can harden and rot. Voice coils can be over-driven and swell and even open. So any speaker not stored and used properly can be turned to junk, and any well built speaker is possible to last a very long time if treated and stored properly. The only one that may be a real time bomb is the foam surrounds, but even then it will depend on how the foam was made. I have seen some foam surrounds fail within 10 years, where others are still working well over 30 years later, IN THE SAME ROOM AND USE CONDITIONS!
you got to give your ears a chance to adjust to a new system. appreciation takes time.
True!
I love this channel wish i found you guys before, i am so sick of these yuppie wanne-bee audiophiles that fall for the huge amounts of bullshit. And even worse trying to sell it as gospel!
As a UK based AV automation engineer I find your videos very intersting!
The only scientific reasearch from Bose was from its advertising department.
Bose suck alot of PINGA!
BOSE: "Better Sales through research" (tm)
@@scottlowell493 BOSE: Better Sound Through Marketing
@@SealofPerfection At one point a particular Bose loudspeaker had 1/3 market share--that's some pretty good marketing right there. Vance Packard, call your office!
I always thought the loudspeaker break-in myth evolved from the performance over time of 1950s era speakers which were made from paper. Possibly those speakers did change significantly over time. As a guitarist we see this all the time. People like the warmth from these old amplifier cabinets. The speakers are decades old and sound different from the same cabinet with new speakers with a preference for the old speaker. Not that the speaker really needs to break-in before it is optimal, but that the paper cones used back in the day changed significantly over time and people liked the resulting change. Who knows, maybe paper speakers did need to break in before sounding better, but how many quality speaker cones are being made with paper now? Exactly nobody. With the composite materials being used now, I bet there is absolutely no measurable or listenable difference in the speaker over years of use. It's like you said, people are adapting to the speakers that are being made today.
ive always had high end audio equip. And ive never heard of driver "breaking in" I however always let my speakers "warm up" before playing them loudly, as to get them moving so to speak. similar thing I guess
In a store, speakers connected for comparison, have resistors connected in series, and resistor values are roughly inversly related to speaker's... no, not sensitivity, but price ;-)
Lou Ferrigno!!
andyenmitubo shrunken
I have listened to a pair of those RBH speakers on that chair and WOW. My wife and I were blown away at the sound stage. I kept opening my eyes thinking where are all the other speakers! They must be hidden! LOL not! Love the info in the myth busting.
I like when fez corrects the Professor “the participants*
Hugo must be Gene's personal trainer
And Gene is Hugo's marketing trainer
Audio Research was telling the world a few years ago that their new class D amplifier design took hundreds of hours to break in before it sounded its best. They discontinued that model and went back to tubes and class A-B designs. A need to break in usually equals something wrong with the design.
I beg to differ. I'm a differ beggar. I've had an Altec Lansing subwoofer satellite combo for serveral years. While I agree the high frequency drivers don't change that much, I have noticed that my sub has become much deeper and smoother over the years. This came as a bit of a shock to me as I wasn't even looking for it. Even my guests (some whom I hadn't seen in months) noticed the change, and asked if I had upgraded. I believe that some speakers will benefit over time, although I see your point from a marketing perspective. However, I can't see all manufacturers being so underhanded.
Thanks for the video, in contrast to debunking it would be really informative to point out tweaks that do work, thanks again guys, Mark
I had a dumb friend in college that bought speakers from a white van "Liquid cooled man!". Anyway he did not get ripped off that bad, he talked them down to like 120 bucks and they sounded as good as some 300 dollar Bose 301's his roommate had.
Break in is true, my AKG K612 came very harsh out of the box, but with time, the highs got softer and the bass got more pronounced, it took like 100 hours to break it in...
Victor Affonso you did understand fuck all..did you?
Well, I understood that is just has nothing to do with the sound but just a way companies found to make me get used to my product...
q701 same... left them in the kitchen for two weeks plugged into a radio and hey presto!!
I have experienced this with some speakers but not all.
I borrowed a demo pair and tested then out at home, sounded great. Then I bought a pair, brand new, same model and brand, used them in the same setup, same placement. They did not sound like the borrowed ones before after 70hours.
Never heard a differance with mids or tweeters but definately with woofers. It doesn't take long to break them in though, maybe a day. Thing is I haven't bought a speaker with anything less than twin 8" woofers in decades. I'm not talking break in on those little 4" to 5" mid bass drivers in those "high" end book shelf speakers but real woofers.
What's the tool you mentioned (from Harman) that trains you to listen?
I'll like to see Hugo do his own video on audio. "Right, right, ok, haha, right, ohh i see.. Right! Sure".
Excellent! Thumbs up easily. I'm very surprised this revealing, enlightening video did not get far more thumbs up! Yes, I know exactly what you are talking about when the application of science is seriously considered. Within first year at university I studied first year psychology, philosophy, so I am aware of a logical approach, thus a part of what we all call scientific, and the correct results are important!. Effects are a bit different than results, as the esteemed exercise researcher Arthur Jones researched, and wrote about; who was the developer of Nautilus exercise machines, and chairman of MedX machines explained. Furthermore, Mike Mentzer would agree, and he would have the same rational point of view, and logical, practical approach.
Man, you have me wanting granite cabinets. I would think the weight would negate "action and reaction". When the speaker moves air it also shakes the cabinet in the opposite direction.
This is way beyond what even a skilled audio enthusiast can understand. It just makes us feel stupid. Try using terms and descriptions that more than 1 in a million people will understand.
Very good review. I would like to know what speaker and setup each of you have for personal 2 channel use?
Can you show amps n speaker combos that sound great together please. That match up well in price too. help a player out. Thnx
Concerning the car comparison: only cars in a similar price range are compared by testing institutions. Measurements like miles per hour, gallons per kilometer or maximum speed or price are easily comparable and no one doubts, that a 60 000$ car offers more values than a 20 000$ car. You can experience all by yourself. But the sonic difference between a 350$ amp and a 3500$ amp can only be revealed in a double blind test carefully leveled with instantaneously switching between both of them if at all. Other differences like built qualities, brand image, connectivity and so on are a matter of taste.
I know this is way late, but there is a speaker company that absolutely makes their own drivers. Magnepan. Their driver is the speaker.
I never heard a bad sounding Bose speaker. Bose for me had nothing to do with marketing, they just sounded better than any other speakers I heard. Yes I never heard high end speakers untill I got older. Now of course I know where they stand compared to other brands for the money, but the 1984 201s I still have, still sound pretty good.
Considering you can get a nice pair of those series 2s for $40 nowadays, its not a bad buy. If your just starting out you could do worse.
I used to think speaker break-in was a myth until I bought JLabs headphones and they recommended to break in. I think they mellowed out the high end and deepened the bass. So, not sure I would cancel out speaker break-in.
This is great. More myth busting videos!!1 Thanks
So are Klipsch horns the ones with $2 tweeters?
I would say subwoofer, woofers, mid bass, midrange when it comes to speaker break in. After a week of moderate listening sessions all should be good.
Dean just find what you want you can afford and live with it. My system a 15 year old Panasonic Plasm S TV, an Onkyo TX NR 626 AV receiver,
202 Elac centre channel Speaker and mains are Elac 310.2 Jet. Bass is great in my room and radio is perfect, DVD Roar. Cheap is me
Another great video guys!
Good video, covered what I wanted to hear
Love the videos. SO informative. Keep up the great work!
Hi Gene/Hugo, so if the drivers are made by many of the same manufactures, then what separates one speaker company from one another? Is it the cabinet design? or the materials used? Essentially it sounds like you're saying that the drivers used in Bose could be the same ones used in B&W's, or JBL and Bang & Olufsen. If the drivers are bought from the same place, then what makes a company selling car speakers any different from the next?
Crossover integration plays a vital role in how well a speaker system will perform. Believe it or not, this is where many manufacturers struggle, especially when farming everything out to China. Cabinets also play a big role in sound quality. Although speaker brand A and speaker brand B may use the same drivers, it doesn't mean the end products will be "similarly good".
Audioholics h
Audioholics ok I'll have to learn about cross over integration. are there any speaker companies that manufacture all their own parts, specifically the drivers? Also I've been recommended to buy "quality" expensive speakers that kinda look like ugly cabinets.. yet it seems like some high end speakers are famous for asthetics and I might be paying for looks disproportionately to quality sounds. bias factor of appearance.
Most companies that claim to manufacturer their own parts simply use OEM stuff and have their supplier make tweaks to customize it for their needs. These tweaks are often nothing more than cosmetic. Aesthetics matter only if you want a speaker to look nice in your living space. Better looking doesn't mean better sounding.
Harman Int. does true Double Blind tests. And no one there is asked to call the best speaker. There are more specific questions regarding certain speaker sound characteristics.
So, the guy in red is there to say "Yeah!", "Sure!", "Right!"? Cool....
kamran102 yeah, right.
he is there as the agreeing sidekick to make the bald guy more believable
The Nodder
You guys raised some nice points, but I feel like you should really learn how speaker/audio businesses operate. Many of these companies exist because of a love of audio, not simply to get wealthy. Drivers are customized to specs required for a particular speaker or series of speakers. Every design is different and this is why off the shelf drivers are generally inferior in the hands of a good designer. A good tweeter, for what it's worth, costs VERY little to make. Regarding driver burn in, on GR - Research has plenty of information on it's website about why it's a real thing with before and after measurement differences and how to interpret them. Also, a good reference for expanding your knowledge base for all things audio is Earl Geddes website.
I'm very familiar how the speaker/audio business works as I've not only been running this website for 17+ years, but have also been involved in designing and beta-testing audio equipment as an electrical engineer. Speaker burn-in is a myth. It takes minutes for a woofer to burn/break-in, and small diaphragms like tweeters don't burn-in. I am very familiar with both GR-Research (good products, some questionable theories) and Earl Geddes (doesn't quite get all things right about his theories on bass, but good info for the most part). Thanks for your comments.
thank you for doing this
18:00 Monitor Audio? :)))
i wish he'd just say what company he's talking about here
Excellent!
What are your thoughts on Floyd Toole’s approach and body of work?
you guys are Great
you guys are always on the money,unbias and no bs.keep it up and don't break our trust in your expertise
Next, tackle the myth of receiver power.
Already done my friend:
ruclips.net/video/Fl3_AQBISYE/видео.html
guys this video is a bit out of focus, and the sound isn't great either
It would be interesting also to compare hi end speakers (over $10,000) with the rest. Do they make any difference to the average listener?
Anybody know what brand is that speaker made of granite?
Status Acoustics Series by RBH Sound.
So, you mean to say I got burned when I bought my Digital Dogg Audio speakers from that dude in the parking lot?
They had such nice fuzzy cabinets.
LOL. Yea, so sorry.
Anyone ever see dumb and dumber? Couldn't you just imagine substituting Harry and Loyd into units video instead?!!🤣
wow didn't think of that lol meaning let them think it needs break in over a period of time until the warranty runs out lol nice
Good video guys.....ok what you think about the rti a3 from polk you think is a good speaker or you recommend other speaker for that buyer
Polk is a pretty solid brand. Haven't heard the model your asking about but I suggest you take a listen for yourself.
Nice video regarding sound but i can't help reacting to the room's acoustics, which this video was recorded in.. I can appreciate personal acoustic preferences when it comes to listening environments like video entertainment and similar (we all don't hear the or even appreciate the same frequencies), but this room simply sounds like a "phone booth/toilet from Hell" to me. There's a extra terrestrially Low to higher mid range boom effect to put it mildly, that simply drives me nuts adding to injury is that I'm not even listening to it using my head phones!?.. :D
Carl Borsing The room acoustics in this space are very good actually. This is one of our early videos where we used the mic from the camera instead of a separate mic so that is why the sound quality is poor.
+Carl Borsing
You can't just someone's room acoustics based on a video. The audio went through a microphone, a computer, editing and your speakers and any one of those can color the sound good or bad. The only way to judge the room acoustics of this room is to be there personally. Someone recording on a cheap handheld video recorder can make a professionally designed recording studio sound like crap.
+Audioholics Izotopes RX 4 and similar, even alloy 2 can help to decrease unwanted ambiances.. :)
+jeff darnell Actually you can, especially if you're listening to your material through high quality headphones. if you in doubt simply use other RUclips videos as reference material, then you shall find how they're all clearly appear with different ambiances? :)
@ Carl Borsing sorry but your greatly mistaken. This was an early video where we used the internal mic of the video camera 15 feet away from us. The acoustics of the room are NOT accurately represented by the audio you are hearing in our videos but its nice that you try to analyze.
Can't access the website a 523 error
Whilst I agree drivers break in mechanically pretty fast you forgot to mention sophisticated xovers. They take much longer. Not 1000’s of hours but certainly many hours.
Hi there,
I want to Martin Logan ethos and want to use them in a 5.1 home theatre , I have a Denon avrx7200wa receiver Martin Logan fx2 at the rear and ML stage X centre , I have herd them in store, sound great , bit of timber in singers voices is missing if i am honest. But thought that wont matter to much in 5.1. I originality want the get the Martin Logan 60xt. i heard these speaker in two different shops, first shop (pre amp & power amp)( Yamaha both) sounded so so good ( in stereo ) second shop not so amazing ( just a receiver no power amp)(they used 3 types of amps during the demo ) something missing with all. anyway when i heard the Martin Logan ethos , they sounded better than the ML 60xt ( i also hear the dynaudio excite x38) ( great sound there too but still not as good as the Martin Logan ethos . so my question is are they good, bad or ugly for 5.1 ?? i keep reading that they are more for stereo music and i also have read the the tower speakers are not so so important for 5.1 . if this is true i could of saved some money and put it towards a very nice amp. what do u guys think.
Lucky Design I gave up on surround sound for music. I scrapped my system and went back to stereo because I listen to music a lot more than I watch movies.
It also doesn't SEEM like I should be able to jump 50" vertical off the floor, and get my head over the basketball rim, as a 6' tall white guy, but I could...
I Wonder if that fits in with their research??🤣👍
What was the program that helps you listen better by those academics?
Yes, please. @audioholics, can you give us the name?
As you say man, science is great to have but you don't always have correlation with the real world. Nice talk man 100% agreed, thanks a lot :)
+Ali Bekir Kılıçkaya True but the science can at least weed out the good from bad designs.
Did you see at 2019 that guy with the - Wooden Drivers
spinning Grace Jones saying... Isnt this heavenly
lolllllll Did you hear TAD ME-1s .....
They sounded EPIC
I enjoyed this video!
What do you know about the Denon avrs510bt
When you mentioned the difference between one model and then next year the "new" version two model, I cannot help but think of Klipsch RF-7 vs RF-7 II. The only difference is the upgraded crossovers and about $1600 lol
Also, what were you referring to when you said you listened to a 400 speaker setup that claimed to be the same as a much more expensive one? I felt the same way when I first heard Andrew Jones.
Good job but you forgot speaker placement in room... I've had speakers in a room if you move them 2 inch's they sound different.. weird but true...
nothing unusual about that but good point. Positioning your speakers for optimal performance is critical. When comparing multiple speakers simultaneously its nearly impossible to place each pair in their ideal location and no also not have them adversely affect the sound of each other just by being in close proximity.
I am shocked with the knowledge that these guys have that the audio is so bad on this video.
getmoore moore It's one of the first videos we shot on RUclips. We are getting better but we focus more on the message than the production.
It just caught me off guard. I really agree with everything you were saying. I use to work in the high end industry but I am always listening to how thing are recorded weather it is music or something on the internet. Its just a distraction for me.
Use Bose or a digital ready speaker
M A I will never have Bose lolll
@@Audioholics I have a feeling you fine folks are not photography/video enthusiasts -- just a hunch! A couple of extra fixed position close-up cameras would really make the videos pop nicely IMO.
IF YOU BLIND TEST A CAR DO IT IN THE MIDDEL OF NOWARE
The middel ??? :-((
Most speakers need break in. Thats a fact
Ohh and if your going to test equipment take music that you listen to and know very well... that's an easy way to see if you like the new stuff... of course the sound in your house my very... long listening tests to... several times...