Respect to Justin Termine for the info. I had no idea the Pistons had 9 former lottery picks on their team. All of those guys were picked from 1-13 overall! This is just amazing and I would suspect unprecedented.
Almost like they aim to get guys only drafted in the lottery lol it is pretty incredible. I like to think I have pretty extensive knowledge on the history of the NBA, and I can’t recall this happening before either. I’ll have to do a deep dive and see if I can find an example of this.
It's less rare than you think. The Kings also have 9. The 90-91 Bulls had 9 (out of only 12 not 15.) The Lakers had three guys who went #1 overall. (Twice. Magic, Kareem, Worthy then LeBron, AD, Dwight.) I mean think about it. Doesn't it make sense that the majority of the guys who stick in the league would be the ones drafted high?
8:55 such an underrated point by Simmons. So many rookie contact players have been ruined by these coaches that still have more juice because of their huge contracts. If the coach didn't draft you, it's almost guaranteed that he ain't gonna like that players game and will straight up talk shit and tell them no matter what the player does, he won't get any minutes. Heard these stories from a bunch of newly retired players
It doesn't help that Monty Williams has the worst rotations I've ever seen. The guy just continues to play absolutely awful players over some of the younger guys who have shown upside like Ausar. That fact that they paid him as much as he did just for him to be as bad as he has is insane
I was so confused when they gave Monty that contract. He always seemed like an average coach if that, definitely not like a legend you pin the hopes of your franchhse on at all.
Mf said rotations lol. They’ve lost 25 straight that’s more than a coaching issue. Monty wasn’t brought in to be Phil Jackson he’s a player’s coach brought into a losing situation to try to build some type of culture
he massively underachieved with the Suns, but there was a whole propaganda campaign to convince people he's a good coach. he is the coach equivalent of James Wiseman: high profile scrub
@@slightexag How is it you figure the Suns underachieved? CP and Book took them to the Finals. Ayton never leveled up (and is playing much worse in Portland.) At the time most people were surprised they performed as well as they did.
Maybe giving the largest contract to a coach in nba history to the guy who got bounced out of the playoffs on his homecourt by 30 in back to back years, wasn’t the shrewd business move that was gonna turn the franchise around we all thought it was gonna be.
The Pistons are the best bad team I've ever seen. But their lack of perimeter shooting is the main issue. 3 ball necessary guards none of whom can shoot from range is a recipe for disaster in the modern NBA
Best bad team you have ever seen… they suck. They have 2 wins.. stop making excuses for this garbage. They. Are. Trash. They need to be sold and moved to Las Vegas
The guards are fine. The issue is the lack of forwards. The 3 and 4 are severely lacking on this team. Especially the 4. Isiah Stewart wouldn’t start on any decent team, yet he’s the only player other than Cade who not only starts every game, but doesn’t get his minutes messed with at all.
@@obi3924 Shooting IS a factor. Cade isn't exactly the mold of a primary playmaker but he has nobody who can pay off helping create open looks. Or to help out the cutters/rim divers like Duren, Ivey or Ausar without the threat of a shooter who can exploit the spacing. Without that balance teams on defense can send 2 guys on Cade and force his teammates to punish them on offense.
Cade, Duren, and Thompson are all keepers. Build around those guys and maybe Ivey. Then rebuild through the draft, if they can find a front office that knows how to do that. Maybe bring in someone like Bob Myers as a consultant.
@@silewis9396 SURE DEANDRE IS LAUGHING 😂 BECAUSE DEANDRE CSN BE TRADED TO A BETTER SITUATION OR THE SITUATION HE IS CAN CHANGE FIE THE BETTER AND HE CAN UP HIS NUMBER MONTY WILLIAMS COACHING CAREER AND HIS COACHING REPUTATION IS " BARBECUED CHICKEN 🐔"
Another comment on here said something important too. No team wants to be the team that loses to them. So now you have teams playing them like it’s a championship game damn near because they don’t want to be THAT team. I felt bad seeing Cade after last nights game. And their schedule is rough. Idk what this team can do besides just win a damn game
They have 3 keepers right now. Cade Ausar and Jalen Duren. Bogey is a trade piece. And that’s about it man. I don’t fault them for going after second hand blue chip prospects like Bagley and Wiseman. When you’re a bad team rolling the dice on young guys like that is understandable.
I get where Simmons is coming from but you do not trade Cade if you're Detroit. The risk is way too high. The biggest mistake the front office made was not trading Bogdonavic last season because they thought they could compete for the play-in.
Giving up on Cade this early is crazy. What would we get back in return. I’d rather give up on the rest of the roster except Thompson before giving up on Cade.
Cade isn’t the problem… bill saying he would keep Ausar over Cade is fucking stupid lol. Yes his TOs are high, but he has literally nobody to pass to. He gets double or triple teamed. Cade is the leader.
Monty Williams is a great man. He lost his wife. He had a heart issue that didn't allow him to play in the NBA. But he is a bad NBA coach. Scott Hastings, Denver Nuggets Color man, said that Monty was a bad coach in New Orleans and he is worse as a coach with Detroit. With teams like Washington, undermanned Utah, and green Portland, they can win 1 game in 25 games.. Monty needs to be let got and let 5 year old kids with crayons plan a strategy better than Monty.
I think there's another level to this about whether the league has enough talent to sustain 30 teams. We hear about possible expansion yet Detroit (and others) haven't been good in over a decade and seem to have a limited pathway to relevancy
The league has way too much talent. 15 years ago Detroit is a 40 win team. What's happened though is teams are better at leveraging their advantages. Game strategy was always suboptimal, which kept games closer than they should have been. It's like a professional poker player vs an amateur. The pro will continually make better decisions so that over time, they are going to win way more. NBA teams were amateurs for a long time, constantly making decisions that were suboptimal. Now they make good decisions most of the time. So it's much harder for bad teams to win games than it was even 5 years ago because they have no margin for error. As far as relevancy, the pathway to relevancy is the same as it's always been: get lucky. Unfortunately Detroit has not recently.
Tom Gores is the problem. He’s meddled in basketball decisions his entire tenure which led to keeping and paying Drummond for so long, and trading young assets for Griffin to make a splash. Troy Weaver did NOT want to hire Monty, but Gores wanted to make a splash with a big name. Monty didnt want to coaxh which makes offering him that contract so dangerous. It doesn’t seem like he’s trying to maximize the potential of this team and would be happy to be let go. All of this goes back to Tom Gores. He destroyed everything that William Davidson built as owner of the once great Pistons franchise.
Cade averaging 23.5 points, 6.9 assists (3.1 TOs), 1.4 steals, 57.3% TS, .286 FTr his last 13 games. Trading him would be ridiculous when he’s literally not the problem
Again NBA fans don’t understand stats. SO MUCH more goes into it, but the scariest part is, even people who make decisions are like this guy. They lay down the stats and make their decisions like robots
@@harinderrana9735 they aren't but maybe a leave of absence for Monty to 'focus on family' with Casey coming down to be the interim wouldn't be the worst idea
Cade is going to be good. Do not move him and destroy your franchise Detroit. He hasn’t played in a year and half consistently. This is his first full year getting a feel for the game. His pace and rhythm, and flow for the game is there. He’ll become a better shot maker naturally as he learns his spots and refines his craft.
It's a classic case of people overreacting. People were way too high on him before the draft and now they are prematurely writing him off. He reminds me of Booker in that he's not athletic enough to win that way so everything is skill based. Which means a much longer development curve. And Booker won 23, 24, 21 and 19 games his first four seasons and wasn't an All Star until year 5
You don't trade Cade. Really dumb. He is 22 and has barely played 100 games in the league. He will fix the inefficiency with more time and a better team. He is currently averaging 22pts, 7ast, 4rebs with TERRIBLE shooting around him. He is doubled constantly and still putting up these numbers.
The pistons actually have interesting chemistry they have so much talent i honestly think it a ego thing they all see each other the same they have to play as a team and win basketball games to get a championship I still think they should trade Jalen Duran and Alec Burke and get some veterans to help mentor Cade , Ivey, and Thompson how to win
I think the Pistons could use more veterans, especially shooters. They have only Bojan and Burks. They could have used some good three and D wings and maybe an experienced back up big.
They also have Joe Harris and Monte Morris. Unfortunately Monte is still hurt, Bogey missed 19 games and Harris and Burks seem to have had their shooting ability stolen by the Monstars I understand why they made the Bey trade -- they felt like he was a 'me' guy and was a culture cancer -- but it's very obvious they need another big wing. Agree about a veteran center. The Wiseman flier made sense in a vacuum but not really on this team.
So the Cade situation if they extend him will kinda be like the thunder when they had SGA in his first yr of the extension. A young guard being the only member of the team on a max. The issue is I don’t think anyone thinks Cade will ever be as close to as good as Shai is. Not to mention OKC actually had really good young talent around shai, they’ve hit on all their draft picks, & they had a good vet to mentor him in CP3. I’d really consider trying to trade him in the off-season & Bill makes a good point of the Spurs being a nice destination. Pair him with Wemby & have Pop coach the hell out of an exciting young duo as his career winds down.
As a person who's a pistons fan and has watched the games. Injuries have plagued the roster and those injuries have been to the shooters and Duren is our rim protector. I have no idea why they'd trade Cade, the only person that can actually get you 40 points on a given night. Plus, free agents aren't coming to Detroit so it's better to pay him than the theoretical you may target. Detroit isn't trying to be bad anymore so why trade Bogdanovic? Clearly, these guys are just looking at the pistons on paper and that makes sense because why watch the pistons? There aren't many bad teams so this looks much worse. Rotations need to be better for sure but sometimes you can't catch a break.
They should trade Bojan because they need assets, now that the shittiest GM in NBA history has wasted so many. And Duren isn't actually much of a rim protector; that said, the only lineups that don't get lit on fire defensively feature both him and Stew because they need his rebounding.
@scottwickett1273 I don't see how making the team worse is going to help Cade, Ivey, Duren, and Thompson. At this point they need good vets to help them along right?
@@detroitboy52289 This season is already over, those kids won't all be on the team if/when the team ever gets good, and you can't build around your lone certain keeper with no assets. I think anybody who says keep Bojan just doesn't understand how any of this works.
@scottwickett1273 so trade who for what? I understand asset accumulation but I'd prefer trades to get better instead of picks because our talent is already young. Keep Cade, Thompson, Ivey, and Duren, anyone else can go. We're not as far away as our record would indicate
@@detroitboy52289 I would be trying to trade Ivey and Duren too, and even Bagley might have some marginal value to a playoff team looking to bolster their depth. (Monte and Burks too, if Monte can get healthy and Burks can remember how to shoot.) It's either that or trade Cade and truly start all over. They are every bit as far away as their record would indicate. This is what happens when you have the worst GM in the history of the sport. I spend a legitimately irresponsible amount of time thinking about this stuff, and it is the most impossible puzzle imaginable.
Pistons losing has nothing to do with the league making more money if they expanded. Hell look at the expansion of teams under Stern and see how they did in the long run. One of the ones North of the Border is one of the most profitable NBA markets.
@@t4d0W Terrible argument. Why stop at 2 teams if all you care about if profitability? Why not 4, or 6, or 8? Expansion is only appropriate when the level of talent in the league reaches a fever pitch. Expanding a weak league only dilutes the already weak product making it fail completely.
@@hooligan5381 And you're 100% right. He's running an offense that requires its primary ball handler to be someone who doesn't turn the ball over and who can punish teams in the pick and roll by either finding the open man rolling to the basket, a shooter flaring into an open gap, or by knocking down midrange shots - and Cade can't do ANY of those things; so why are they running that offense? Because Monty is a shit coach.
@hooligan5381 He's not the right coach for a young team. His temperament is conducive to vets not young players; he's too old school for a team of youngsters who need motivation and development.
It’s my sincere hope the pistons losing streak reaches & stops at 33!…..that would match (in reverse) the 72 lakers winning streak!……you know; the winning streak nobody seems to mention for fear of having to give WNC some fucking due respect!
Hate to hear the comparison of Lavine to Cunningham Cade is At this point a way more versatile player Lavine is just straight buckets What kinda player u want
Worth noting Phoenix extended Devin Booker who after 4 years had won 87 games Just because a guy isn’t Luka or LeBron year 2 doesn’t mean he won’t be good. It’s just means he’s not gonna be a top 15 all time player
It might not be Monty's fault this time but he still has to go. They might not be good enough to get wins but they can't look at Monty and think he has what it takes to help get them there. Confidence is at 0%.
@@AAJ90 It's the NBA "my guy". Maybe you haven't been paying attention the last 5-10 years, but star players don't go anywhere they don't wanna go. You really think one of the best PGs of all time, still searching for his elusive first championship in the twilight of his career, wants to go fuck around for a sub .100 winning percentage team in front of 2500 people?
The Pistons are the kid who keeps coasting to C- grades who doesn’t have the raw ability to make up for laziness but lacks the work ethic to improve. All of their moves over the last several years haven’t been F’s, but mostly C/D moves with the exception of the Joe Harris and Bagley contracts. I also understand trading Saddiq because even though he was a good shooter, he’s a terrible defender and a ball stopper on offense who has MPJ syndrome.
The downside of having high lottery picks, and a big reason why the NBA teams that tank for a long time don’t get better, is that you HAVE to take the best player available. It’s really tough to build a team with role players when everyone has star talent and wants the ball. Ivey, Hayes, Cunningham, and Thompson don’t mesh. They should all be the point and none are great shooters
The whole rationale of 'taking the best player' available is not why teams suck per se. Cade is a good pick up who got derailed of his progress due to injury. And in part the team since he's the only real play maker. Killian Hayes was the 7th pick in that one year where the Pistons and 4 other teams missed on that 11th pick named Tyrese Haliburton. Hell the Kings chose him in part he 'was the best player' in their position available and there was a redundancy in roles between him and Fox. But things worked out because they used Hali to flip him to get their best player which was Domas. Shooting is the only thing this team needs more of to compliment Cade and their other finishers.
So at what point do they make changes to coaching staff & front office ?? I get they were never gonna be good but after losing 25 straight everybody gotta be on the hot seat no matter how much you paid them
@@pinbarbecue1100 thank you I've been a Pistons fan my whole life and I'm 36 so you can imagine that I haven't been that happy since about 2007 and I haven't had no confidence in my team since about 2008 even when we thought we got T-Mac or Iverson, we thought we had SOMETHING! But no, Bill Take on This Is 100% accurate and about Tom Gore As Well. Do you know how many jerseys I've bought and I've also had to get rid of since 2010!? As once a competitive team, trust me when I say our fans are the most hurt.
their biggest mistake was hiring monty williams he is not a good coach, its no proof that says he is. pistons were on the come up before he came and stuck his ego in everything now theie not motivated and don't wanna play for him
Clearly a massive culture problem mixed with no real plan in recruitment so they’ve ended up with a bunch of guys instead of a team structure that fits together. They have some good young talent, a couple of good experienced pros and monty despite doing a terrible job and probably being the wrong guy for the job is a decent coach. That combined should never be losing this much.
They could have paid me less than a third of what they paid Monty Williams to coach the team and they would still have the same record lol. Worst over pay in history the man hasn't had a winning season without CP3 on his team yet they paid him like he's Gregg Popovich or Phil Jackson smh
ahhh the 2009 Pistons. One of the worst playoff teams of all time. Making the postseason despite going 17-31 to finish the season. One of those trash east teams that made Lebron look like MJ on steroids.
This whole conversation is interesting because we are dogging a team for being bad but at the same time we're telling them that they shouldn't be good and they should sell players like donovitch . If we're trying to develop the players, don't we need more players like bug donovitch on the team so that way they have appropriate spacing and shooting so the young players can practice creating
The tipping point trade in foresight obviously is the Saddiq Bey trade, which as a fan I do agree with him being traded, but the return being James Wiseman was simply atrocious.
Grant was via Free agency! And traded to the 2025 portland first round pick, and that pick was later traded to the knicks for the rights of Jalen Duren.
Now it's Walker Kessler and 5 first round picks.... Why don't you make it 7 first round picks if you're going to continue to misrepresent the trade. The trade was 4 first round picks and a bunch of middle tier talent to match salary.
The current worst losing streak, the 10-11 Cavs, at least had some veterans and Antawn Jamison, a 2x all star. This Pistons team is all youngsters with no experience and no steadying veteran presence. Very tough for them to break through in a few games. I also feel for Monty Williams. This is a badly constructed and very inexperienced roster.
Bro this is on Monty Williams and pistons management monty never wanted to be here to begin with he didn’t even want to coach coming into the season yet the pistons front office just couldn’t take no for a answer and gave in to all of his demands to get him to coach the team now you have a locker room full of disgruntled players that don’t want to play for this man we need a guy who can connect with these young guys and get the most out of them
I agree with everything but the Cade take. Cade is a fucking dawg, and Detroit needs to get a grip, or else I see another Matthew Stanford but way younger scenario playing out.
Compounded onto that is their bad defense and they are screwed in the modern NBA. A saving grace could be if they had good efficiency with the 3s they take so that would give teams something to worry about but no, they are terrible at making the shots they take.
To be fair Cade shot 40% from three and 85% from the line at OSU. He was literally being called an elite shooting prospect. And Killian and Ivey were both considered as guys who could develop. You just never know. Nik Stauskas and Gradey Dick were as elite as elite gets with shooting prospects and they're at 35% and 25%. Malik Monk shot 32% his first three seasons. 38.5% since.
Cade can find his shot so I'm not worried about him. Ausar and Ivey have complimentary skills that work now while they develop their shooting. Hayes is the real weak link because he's in year 4 and he doesn't have a money making move to get a bucket. Nor is he crazy athletic with length, has a play making bag or can be a defensive asset. So if he can't even stretch defenses he's of no value.
I’ve heard Termine’s voice but hadn’t seen his face before this video, genuinely imagined that he was 30 years older than he is.
He's famous. He is the voice of Patty and Selma of the The Simpsons.
Same dude, same
@@piteusx8440😮😮damn
Same thing happened when I saw Verno for the first time 🤣
TERMINE IS THE SPAWN OF BOB GRANT
So dope seeing that you were able to get a young Bob Odenkirk on the Podcast Bill! Love hearing his basketball takes!
😂
Lmfaoooo
Respect to Justin Termine for the info. I had no idea the Pistons had 9 former lottery picks on their team. All of those guys were picked from 1-13 overall! This is just amazing and I would suspect unprecedented.
JUSTIN TERMINE IDOLIZES BOB GRANT AN OVERT ANTI BLACK WHITE RACIST WHO CHEERED WHEN RON BROWN DIED IN A PLANE CRASH
it really shows how many nba execs don’t know what they’re doing
Almost like they aim to get guys only drafted in the lottery lol it is pretty incredible. I like to think I have pretty extensive knowledge on the history of the NBA, and I can’t recall this happening before either. I’ll have to do a deep dive and see if I can find an example of this.
It's less rare than you think. The Kings also have 9. The 90-91 Bulls had 9 (out of only 12 not 15.)
The Lakers had three guys who went #1 overall. (Twice. Magic, Kareem, Worthy then LeBron, AD, Dwight.)
I mean think about it. Doesn't it make sense that the majority of the guys who stick in the league would be the ones drafted high?
@@SomeChink The 2 dumbest entities in the nba industry are 1. Nba gms 2. Nba media
Thank you Bill. Normalize calling Tom Gores the worst owner in professional sports. 7:57
I legit feel bad for them at this point. No one is gonna want to be the team that loses to them.
Yeah feel bad for millionaires that play a kids game.. . Hope they lose every game..its obvious they suck
@@KyleClarke-rs3rj you seem fun
@@KyleClarke-rs3rj i can tell you a loser in life with this type of energy
Why? It's not like the Pistons are tanking. The team is not good on paper, but not this bad. The losing streak is on the players and coaches.
SHOULD BRING JOE DUMARS AND ISIAH BACK COACH AND GM
8:55 such an underrated point by Simmons. So many rookie contact players have been ruined by these coaches that still have more juice because of their huge contracts. If the coach didn't draft you, it's almost guaranteed that he ain't gonna like that players game and will straight up talk shit and tell them no matter what the player does, he won't get any minutes. Heard these stories from a bunch of newly retired players
The Pistons didn’t realize when they traded for Bagley the Curse of Luka was transferred from The Kings to them. It was in the fine print
It doesn't help that Monty Williams has the worst rotations I've ever seen. The guy just continues to play absolutely awful players over some of the younger guys who have shown upside like Ausar. That fact that they paid him as much as he did just for him to be as bad as he has is insane
I was so confused when they gave Monty that contract. He always seemed like an average coach if that, definitely not like a legend you pin the hopes of your franchhse on at all.
They paid Monty like he was Red Auerbach and Phil Jackson’s first-born son who had been raised by Gregg Popovich
They want the first pick again. Wost owner in nba history and a terrible coach cause this.
@TG-ld8hl thats because nobody wants to come to Detroit. Imagine what they have to pay Cade. 😂
Mf said rotations lol. They’ve lost 25 straight that’s more than a coaching issue. Monty wasn’t brought in to be Phil Jackson he’s a player’s coach brought into a losing situation to try to build some type of culture
Monty Williams is the smoking gun.
he massively underachieved with the Suns, but there was a whole propaganda campaign to convince people he's a good coach. he is the coach equivalent of James Wiseman: high profile scrub
@@slightexag How is it you figure the Suns underachieved? CP and Book took them to the Finals. Ayton never leveled up (and is playing much worse in Portland.) At the time most people were surprised they performed as well as they did.
yeah i'm thinking he overacheived with them too, they havent done anything better without him except for durant with the warriors@@David-iv6je
Stephen Silas too.
Jarrett Jack's on borrowed time.
Maybe giving the largest contract to a coach in nba history to the guy who got bounced out of the playoffs on his homecourt by 30 in back to back years, wasn’t the shrewd business move that was gonna turn the franchise around we all thought it was gonna be.
The Pistons are the best bad team I've ever seen. But their lack of perimeter shooting is the main issue. 3 ball necessary guards none of whom can shoot from range is a recipe for disaster in the modern NBA
Best bad team you have ever seen… they suck. They have 2 wins.. stop making excuses for this garbage. They. Are. Trash. They need to be sold and moved to Las Vegas
The guards are fine. The issue is the lack of forwards. The 3 and 4 are severely lacking on this team. Especially the 4. Isiah Stewart wouldn’t start on any decent team, yet he’s the only player other than Cade who not only starts every game, but doesn’t get his minutes messed with at all.
@@obi3924 they cant... shoot..
They are not worst bad team they worst bad team, I have watched both record setting Cavs and sixers play and both where far better teams.
@@obi3924 Shooting IS a factor. Cade isn't exactly the mold of a primary playmaker but he has nobody who can pay off helping create open looks. Or to help out the cutters/rim divers like Duren, Ivey or Ausar without the threat of a shooter who can exploit the spacing. Without that balance teams on defense can send 2 guys on Cade and force his teammates to punish them on offense.
Cade, Duren, and Thompson are all keepers. Build around those guys and maybe Ivey. Then rebuild through the draft, if they can find a front office that knows how to do that. Maybe bring in someone like Bob Myers as a consultant.
And keep wiseman
I'm convinced this is the Detroit Lions 0-16 team, the Lions are good now so one of our teams has to be terrible
True. 1 detroit team has to suck at all times. Right now its the pistons. Before them the lions. Before them the tigers.
It's the sporting equivalent of the Seinfeld "even Steven" episode
@@ashishnarayan4146 LOL YES!!
The tigers had a horrible team that won like 38 games
ARN TELLEM SHOULD BE LOOKED TO SEE IF HE IS CALLING THE SHOTS BEHIND THE SCENE WHILE TROY WEAVER OS TAKING THE BULLETS FOR THE TEAM'S 2-25 RECORD
It's an open question, yes.
DEANDRE AYTON MUST BE LAUGHING AT MONTY WILLIAMS
I wouldn't be laughing if I was on a 7-20 team and averaging a career low after winning in Phoenix
@@silewis9396 OH YEAH HE IS LAUGHING AND SHOULD BE LAUGHING. BECAUSE MONTY WILLIAMS IS EXPOSED FOE THE USE PROPHYLACTIC THAT HE IS .
@@silewis9396 SURE DEANDRE IS LAUGHING 😂 BECAUSE DEANDRE CSN BE TRADED TO A BETTER SITUATION OR THE SITUATION HE IS CAN CHANGE FIE THE BETTER AND HE CAN UP HIS NUMBER MONTY WILLIAMS COACHING CAREER AND HIS COACHING REPUTATION IS " BARBECUED CHICKEN 🐔"
gee we were so sure Wiseman was the answer. What a shocker.
Who was
!?!
Actually, Dwayne Casey was a very good developmental coach, and the Pistons fired him.
No. He resigned and went to pistons front office
Saying the coach is the pistons problem is about like thinking deep water is what sank the titanic!
I feel bad for them, their fans. Just sucks to see a team go through this.
Another comment on here said something important too. No team wants to be the team that loses to them. So now you have teams playing them like it’s a championship game damn near because they don’t want to be THAT team. I felt bad seeing Cade after last nights game. And their schedule is rough. Idk what this team can do besides just win a damn game
They have 3 keepers right now. Cade Ausar and Jalen Duren. Bogey is a trade piece. And that’s about it man. I don’t fault them for going after second hand blue chip prospects like Bagley and Wiseman. When you’re a bad team rolling the dice on young guys like that is understandable.
I get where Simmons is coming from but you do not trade Cade if you're Detroit. The risk is way too high. The biggest mistake the front office made was not trading Bogdonavic last season because they thought they could compete for the play-in.
I think the bogda still might have some trade value…. Shit I’ll take him in golden state
Giving up on Cade this early is crazy. What would we get back in return. I’d rather give up on the rest of the roster except Thompson before giving up on Cade.
He’s not that good.
@@raheem201231 Yes he is, you just don't know what you're looking at, if you're even watching at all.
@@raheem201231😂😂😂
Cade isn’t the problem… bill saying he would keep Ausar over Cade is fucking stupid lol. Yes his TOs are high, but he has literally nobody to pass to. He gets double or triple teamed. Cade is the leader.
Bill wants to save Cade's career, not help the Pistons.
Good discussion fellas 👌🏽
Monty Williams is a great man. He lost his wife. He had a heart issue that didn't allow him to play in the NBA. But he is a bad NBA coach. Scott Hastings, Denver Nuggets Color man, said that Monty was a bad coach in New Orleans and he is worse as a coach with Detroit. With teams like Washington, undermanned Utah, and green Portland, they can win 1 game in 25 games.. Monty needs to be let got and let 5 year old kids with crayons plan a strategy better than Monty.
HIRE 1.JOE DUMARS 2.ISIAH THOMAS 3.RICK MAHONE 4. BILL LAIMBEER
I think there's another level to this about whether the league has enough talent to sustain 30 teams. We hear about possible expansion yet Detroit (and others) haven't been good in over a decade and seem to have a limited pathway to relevancy
I agree. Should be 24 teams. Maybe 26
I disagree. Pistons have plenty of talent. Just terrible fit.
The league feels stacked to me.
The league has way too much talent. 15 years ago Detroit is a 40 win team.
What's happened though is teams are better at leveraging their advantages. Game strategy was always suboptimal, which kept games closer than they should have been.
It's like a professional poker player vs an amateur. The pro will continually make better decisions so that over time, they are going to win way more. NBA teams were amateurs for a long time, constantly making decisions that were suboptimal. Now they make good decisions most of the time. So it's much harder for bad teams to win games than it was even 5 years ago because they have no margin for error.
As far as relevancy, the pathway to relevancy is the same as it's always been: get lucky.
Unfortunately Detroit has not recently.
We literally made the playoffs 4 years ago, and were in playoff contention almost every year in the 2010's don't do that
Tom Gores is the problem. He’s meddled in basketball decisions his entire tenure which led to keeping and paying Drummond for so long, and trading young assets for Griffin to make a splash. Troy Weaver did NOT want to hire Monty, but Gores wanted to make a splash with a big name. Monty didnt want to coaxh which makes offering him that contract so dangerous. It doesn’t seem like he’s trying to maximize the potential of this team and would be happy to be let go. All of this goes back to Tom Gores. He destroyed everything that William Davidson built as owner of the once great Pistons franchise.
The Blake trade set the franchise back. Blake was great as a piston individually too but to trade the picks and assets for him messed the future up
Cade averaging 23.5 points, 6.9 assists (3.1 TOs), 1.4 steals, 57.3% TS, .286 FTr his last 13 games. Trading him would be ridiculous when he’s literally not the problem
Again NBA fans don’t understand stats. SO MUCH more goes into it, but the scariest part is, even people who make decisions are like this guy. They lay down the stats and make their decisions like robots
@@blicleak1101 Fa💯cts! Ca e and those inflated stats are the entire problem.
@@blicleak1101Please tell me what I don’t understand about these stats?? I watch every damn game and he’s clearly not the problem
It’s also unquestioned that Detroit gave out the worst head coaching contract, OF ALL TIME.
This Detroit team is worse than thag michael Carter Williams 76rs team and I never thought it would be possible in anybody’s lifetime 😂
25 Game Losing streak. Or as we call it, the James Wiseman effect.
They need to fire Monty Williams. He keeps changing the lineup. They are not as bad as their record.
@@harinderrana9735 they aren't but maybe a leave of absence for Monty to 'focus on family' with Casey coming down to be the interim wouldn't be the worst idea
Cade is going to be good. Do not move him and destroy your franchise Detroit. He hasn’t played in a year and half consistently. This is his first full year getting a feel for the game. His pace and rhythm, and flow for the game is there. He’ll become a better shot maker naturally as he learns his spots and refines his craft.
It's a classic case of people overreacting. People were way too high on him before the draft and now they are prematurely writing him off.
He reminds me of Booker in that he's not athletic enough to win that way so everything is skill based. Which means a much longer development curve.
And Booker won 23, 24, 21 and 19 games his first four seasons and wasn't an All Star until year 5
Bro I literally thought Justin was around Bill’s age until I saw his face
You don't trade Cade. Really dumb. He is 22 and has barely played 100 games in the league. He will fix the inefficiency with more time and a better team. He is currently averaging 22pts, 7ast, 4rebs with TERRIBLE shooting around him. He is doubled constantly and still putting up these numbers.
Right it would be really stupid to trade him
Honestly I think it’s terrible coaching, that teams is young but talented, they could have stolen a couple of those games
Pistons have had 1 season above .500 since 2008
The pistons actually have interesting chemistry they have so much talent i honestly think it a ego thing they all see each other the same they have to play as a team and win basketball games to get a championship I still think they should trade Jalen Duran and Alec Burke and get some veterans to help mentor Cade , Ivey, and Thompson how to win
Where can I listen to the whole podcast? Bill Simmons is low key my favorite basketball podcast but I only ever see shorts vs for videos
Spotify
I think the Pistons could use more veterans, especially shooters. They have only Bojan and Burks. They could have used some good three and D wings and maybe an experienced back up big.
They also have Joe Harris and Monte Morris. Unfortunately Monte is still hurt, Bogey missed 19 games and Harris and Burks seem to have had their shooting ability stolen by the Monstars
I understand why they made the Bey trade -- they felt like he was a 'me' guy and was a culture cancer -- but it's very obvious they need another big wing.
Agree about a veteran center. The Wiseman flier made sense in a vacuum but not really on this team.
James wiseman has no experienced big man that can mentor him he needs a Dwight Howard or Hassan whiteside
So the Cade situation if they extend him will kinda be like the thunder when they had SGA in his first yr of the extension. A young guard being the only member of the team on a max. The issue is I don’t think anyone thinks Cade will ever be as close to as good as Shai is. Not to mention OKC actually had really good young talent around shai, they’ve hit on all their draft picks, & they had a good vet to mentor him in CP3. I’d really consider trying to trade him in the off-season & Bill makes a good point of the Spurs being a nice destination. Pair him with Wemby & have Pop coach the hell out of an exciting young duo as his career winds down.
With all due respect, fuck the Spurs.
Signed,
Pistons fans
This is coaching. The thing if they fire monty you gonna put silas in??? Nice guy but he killed houston
9 lottery picks and 2 wins is so crazy
As a person who's a pistons fan and has watched the games. Injuries have plagued the roster and those injuries have been to the shooters and Duren is our rim protector. I have no idea why they'd trade Cade, the only person that can actually get you 40 points on a given night. Plus, free agents aren't coming to Detroit so it's better to pay him than the theoretical you may target. Detroit isn't trying to be bad anymore so why trade Bogdanovic? Clearly, these guys are just looking at the pistons on paper and that makes sense because why watch the pistons? There aren't many bad teams so this looks much worse. Rotations need to be better for sure but sometimes you can't catch a break.
They should trade Bojan because they need assets, now that the shittiest GM in NBA history has wasted so many.
And Duren isn't actually much of a rim protector; that said, the only lineups that don't get lit on fire defensively feature both him and Stew because they need his rebounding.
@scottwickett1273 I don't see how making the team worse is going to help Cade, Ivey, Duren, and Thompson. At this point they need good vets to help them along right?
@@detroitboy52289 This season is already over, those kids won't all be on the team if/when the team ever gets good, and you can't build around your lone certain keeper with no assets. I think anybody who says keep Bojan just doesn't understand how any of this works.
@scottwickett1273 so trade who for what? I understand asset accumulation but I'd prefer trades to get better instead of picks because our talent is already young. Keep Cade, Thompson, Ivey, and Duren, anyone else can go. We're not as far away as our record would indicate
@@detroitboy52289 I would be trying to trade Ivey and Duren too, and even Bagley might have some marginal value to a playoff team looking to bolster their depth. (Monte and Burks too, if Monte can get healthy and Burks can remember how to shoot.) It's either that or trade Cade and truly start all over.
They are every bit as far away as their record would indicate. This is what happens when you have the worst GM in the history of the sport.
I spend a legitimately irresponsible amount of time thinking about this stuff, and it is the most impossible puzzle imaginable.
The Pistons are singlehandedly proving that expansion would be disastrous for the league.
Pistons losing has nothing to do with the league making more money if they expanded. Hell look at the expansion of teams under Stern and see how they did in the long run. One of the ones North of the Border is one of the most profitable NBA markets.
@@t4d0W Terrible argument. Why stop at 2 teams if all you care about if profitability? Why not 4, or 6, or 8? Expansion is only appropriate when the level of talent in the league reaches a fever pitch. Expanding a weak league only dilutes the already weak product making it fail completely.
Monty Williams is a BAD coach. His only winning records with Phoenix and New Orleans came with Chris Paul running his offense.
thank you! i've been telling people this all season CP3 made Monty Williams he isn't a good coach at all
@@hooligan5381 And you're 100% right. He's running an offense that requires its primary ball handler to be someone who doesn't turn the ball over and who can punish teams in the pick and roll by either finding the open man rolling to the basket, a shooter flaring into an open gap, or by knocking down midrange shots - and Cade can't do ANY of those things; so why are they running that offense? Because Monty is a shit coach.
@@thomascrowniii1693 facts i would say they should switch up the offense but they seem like they don't even wanna play for him anymore
@hooligan5381 He's not the right coach for a young team. His temperament is conducive to vets not young players; he's too old school for a team of youngsters who need motivation and development.
@@thomascrowniii1693 couldnt agree more, they need to get rid of him
Finally, Colin Quinn is on the podcast!
A break? How about a win and, even though I have been a Monty fan, a change at the top? And this is not a primo upcoming draft.
No Clippers 9 Game WIN streak vid? Come on Bill😜
Monty for coach of the year!
Fire Monty he is a bad coach
Well don't stop now. We can Get this! Lets get that record! BAD BOYS 4 LIFE!
It’s my sincere hope the pistons losing streak reaches & stops at 33!…..that would match (in reverse) the 72 lakers winning streak!……you know; the winning streak nobody seems to mention for fear of having to give WNC some fucking due respect!
I like these two guys talking bball. First time i see the guy not named Bill and i want to hear more from him.
Hate to hear the comparison of Lavine to Cunningham
Cade is At this point a way more versatile player
Lavine is just straight buckets
What kinda player u want
Honest question: Can you get MULTIPLE 1sts right now for Cade Cunningham or Jalen Duren? I'm talking maybe 3 1sts. Complete fire-sale for Detroit.
Will Cade become the modern NBA version of the New Orleans era Archie Manning?
Sad/Funny state of the Pistons, I would feel sorry for their fan base, but what fan base?
As a Kings fan I’m so happy we didn’t take Ivey and I’m so happy we traded Bagley 😂
Worth noting Phoenix extended Devin Booker who after 4 years had won 87 games
Just because a guy isn’t Luka or LeBron year 2 doesn’t mean he won’t be good. It’s just means he’s not gonna be a top 15 all time player
It might not be Monty's fault this time but he still has to go. They might not be good enough to get wins but they can't look at Monty and think he has what it takes to help get them there. Confidence is at 0%.
Could a CP trade help bring this squad together the way it did OKC with a young SGA?
There's absolutely ZERO chance a player like CP3, that stature & this point of his career, agrees to a trade to a dumpster fire like Detroit.
@@naterosendahl9071 very few players get to "agree" to trades. That's not how contracts work, my guy.
@@AAJ90 It's the NBA "my guy". Maybe you haven't been paying attention the last 5-10 years, but star players don't go anywhere they don't wanna go. You really think one of the best PGs of all time, still searching for his elusive first championship in the twilight of his career, wants to go fuck around for a sub .100 winning percentage team in front of 2500 people?
Remember when OKC proposed SGA to Detroit for the number 1 pick in 2021 who is Cade
100%
CP and Russ are the two guys I really want. Both bring leadership, accountability and structure
The Pistons are the kid who keeps coasting to C- grades who doesn’t have the raw ability to make up for laziness but lacks the work ethic to improve. All of their moves over the last several years haven’t been F’s, but mostly C/D moves with the exception of the Joe Harris and Bagley contracts. I also understand trading Saddiq because even though he was a good shooter, he’s a terrible defender and a ball stopper on offense who has MPJ syndrome.
The downside of having high lottery picks, and a big reason why the NBA teams that tank for a long time don’t get better, is that you HAVE to take the best player available. It’s really tough to build a team with role players when everyone has star talent and wants the ball. Ivey, Hayes, Cunningham, and Thompson don’t mesh. They should all be the point and none are great shooters
The whole rationale of 'taking the best player' available is not why teams suck per se. Cade is a good pick up who got derailed of his progress due to injury. And in part the team since he's the only real play maker. Killian Hayes was the 7th pick in that one year where the Pistons and 4 other teams missed on that 11th pick named Tyrese Haliburton. Hell the Kings chose him in part he 'was the best player' in their position available and there was a redundancy in roles between him and Fox. But things worked out because they used Hali to flip him to get their best player which was Domas. Shooting is the only thing this team needs more of to compliment Cade and their other finishers.
So at what point do they make changes to coaching staff & front office ?? I get they were never gonna be good but after losing 25 straight everybody gotta be on the hot seat no matter how much you paid them
Every NBA team is now scrambling not to be the team that loses to the Detroit Pistons.
As a Spurs fan, I'm legit dreading that future matchup...
I'm a Pistons fan so I'm in it to see this! Please help 🙏
They probably beat the Nets tomorrow. They have a chance to win
@@pinbarbecue1100 thank you I've been a Pistons fan my whole life and I'm 36 so you can imagine that I haven't been that happy since about 2007 and I haven't had no confidence in my team since about 2008 even when we thought we got T-Mac or Iverson, we thought we had SOMETHING! But no, Bill Take on This Is 100% accurate and about Tom Gore As Well. Do you know how many jerseys I've bought and I've also had to get rid of since 2010!? As once a competitive team, trust me when I say our fans are the most hurt.
their biggest mistake was hiring monty williams he is not a good coach, its no proof that says he is. pistons were on the come up before he came and stuck his ego in everything now theie not motivated and don't wanna play for him
Clearly a massive culture problem mixed with no real plan in recruitment so they’ve ended up with a bunch of guys instead of a team structure that fits together.
They have some good young talent, a couple of good experienced pros and monty despite doing a terrible job and probably being the wrong guy for the job is a decent coach. That combined should never be losing this much.
Get in here fam
They could have paid me less than a third of what they paid Monty Williams to coach the team and they would still have the same record lol. Worst over pay in history the man hasn't had a winning season without CP3 on his team yet they paid him like he's Gregg Popovich or Phil Jackson smh
Organisation is toxic from top to bottom, desperately needs a clean out. Sell the team.
Yep, when you're bad for a decade, that isn't the players, coach, or GM. Only guy around that long is the Owner.
ahhh the 2009 Pistons. One of the worst playoff teams of all time. Making the postseason despite going 17-31 to finish the season.
One of those trash east teams that made Lebron look like MJ on steroids.
This whole conversation is interesting because we are dogging a team for being bad but at the same time we're telling them that they shouldn't be good and they should sell players like donovitch . If we're trying to develop the players, don't we need more players like bug donovitch on the team so that way they have appropriate spacing and shooting so the young players can practice creating
The tipping point trade in foresight obviously is the Saddiq Bey trade, which as a fan I do agree with him being traded, but the return being James Wiseman was simply atrocious.
With the 2 losses to the Nets, the next possible wi is against the Spurs Jan 10.
If you can’t be famous, be infamous.
26 baby!
Fire coach
Grant was via Free agency! And traded to the 2025 portland first round pick, and that pick was later traded to the knicks for the rights of Jalen Duren.
its going to end against Toronto we always lose games like that.
Newsflash: there are 2 types of talent in the NBA: talent & perceived talent!
Ivey didnt slip, Jaden said to the Kings not to draft him as he didnt want to go there.
That Monty hire looking terrible man 😂😂😂 mfs really hyped up hiring him just to lose 25 straight games
Now it's Walker Kessler and 5 first round picks.... Why don't you make it 7 first round picks if you're going to continue to misrepresent the trade. The trade was 4 first round picks and a bunch of middle tier talent to match salary.
It's really sad what is going on with the Pistons
Give them that first pick next year and the crazy thing they have a lot of lottery’s but no vets
Christ Paul fooled y’all into thinking Monty Williams look like a good coach.
How come Monty ain’t questioning the want of any of these young players the same way he questioned Deandre Ayton 🤔🤔🤔
The current worst losing streak, the 10-11 Cavs, at least had some veterans and Antawn Jamison, a 2x all star. This Pistons team is all youngsters with no experience and no steadying veteran presence. Very tough for them to break through in a few games. I also feel for Monty Williams. This is a badly constructed and very inexperienced roster.
Bro this is on Monty Williams and pistons management monty never wanted to be here to begin with he didn’t even want to coach coming into the season yet the pistons front office just couldn’t take no for a answer and gave in to all of his demands to get him to coach the team now you have a locker room full of disgruntled players that don’t want to play for this man we need a guy who can connect with these young guys and get the most out of them
Cant build teams with no vets....bogdan is it. Thats terrible.
I agree with everything but the Cade take. Cade is a fucking dawg, and Detroit needs to get a grip, or else I see another Matthew Stanford but way younger scenario playing out.
Biggest reason is no 3pt vol shooters. In today's game, a must need
Compounded onto that is their bad defense and they are screwed in the modern NBA. A saving grace could be if they had good efficiency with the 3s they take so that would give teams something to worry about but no, they are terrible at making the shots they take.
The pistons are the best show in sports rn. They are soooooo bad it's good. There's no other games i want to watch lol
Jerami Grant was an all star with us to
Good example of a terrible coach given a good team. Winning COTY and then when he has to coach is bad. Media tried to hype him up but failed.
Cade is already planning where he wants to play next
4 straight lottery picks that can't shoot: Killian Hayes, Cade, Ivey and Ausar
To be fair Cade shot 40% from three and 85% from the line at OSU. He was literally being called an elite shooting prospect.
And Killian and Ivey were both considered as guys who could develop.
You just never know. Nik Stauskas and Gradey Dick were as elite as elite gets with shooting prospects and they're at 35% and 25%. Malik Monk shot 32% his first three seasons. 38.5% since.
@@michaelahurtyeah you’re right about Cade, he’s just been disappointing in that department.
Cade can find his shot so I'm not worried about him. Ausar and Ivey have complimentary skills that work now while they develop their shooting. Hayes is the real weak link because he's in year 4 and he doesn't have a money making move to get a bucket. Nor is he crazy athletic with length, has a play making bag or can be a defensive asset. So if he can't even stretch defenses he's of no value.
Seems like they need some Vets