Was Jesus Only a Myth? Richard Carrier Debate Part 2
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- Опубликовано: 12 окт 2018
- Was Jesus Only a Myth? Richard Carrier Debate Part 2
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Recorded: Huntington Beach, CA - 2014
Richard Cevantis Carrier (born December 1, 1969) is an American historian, atheist activist, author, public speaker and blogger.
Carrier has a doctorate in ancient history from Columbia University where his thesis was on the history of science in antiquity. He originally gained prominence as an advocate of atheism and metaphysical naturalism, authoring many articles on The Secular Web and later defending his basic position in his book Sense and Goodness Without God.
This is what's known as "wiping the floor" with Christian apologists.
Carrier was in top form.
Thank you, Dr. Carrier, for not stooping down to the level of the clownish closing of the Christian. We, the unwashed masses, are watching these debates, and we see the disparity in professionalism, logic, and evidence from the two sides.
Carrier's arguments make perfect sense and explain so much.
I love that it took him less than 6 minutes to rebuttal 15 minutes of claims using their own words against them. Then ending with suggesting the listener do their own research into today's arguments. Something I have never heard an apologist do .
I guess the guy having a meltdown was pretty close to pulling
Biblical claims fall into 2 categories: 1) those that can't be substanciated; 2) those that have been proven false.
Well said😊
Apologists always start out acting like they're serious academics there for a reasoned debate, but by the end after they've had their pants pulled down and legs slapped they throw their toys out of their pram.
dustin hoffman didnt have much to say, did he ?
(edit) no, wait - he closed. he prob should have stuck to the 'not having much to say' strategy.
14:50 ah yes, the "if i yell louder and assert my point without substantiating it or hearing out the counters, i automatically win" strategy that theists love. It's worked exactly 0 times, but that won't stop them from using it.
That 1st guys a Dr.🤣 needs to hand that back. Literally insane. I mean trying to use the supernatural aspects to evidence jesus life and "facts" which arnt facts like the empty tomb as evidence.
It's called the argument from arrogance and stupidity.
Even in the realm of discussing just the historicity of Jesus, it's very surprising how many people dismiss Carrier as "fringe" without addressing his actual points. You usually hear "Carrier is fringe" full stop. Yet he's the first to update the historicity of Jesus in 100 years in such a way. Normally it can be safe to confide in the consensus but on this topic specifically, the consensus is circular and flawed as Carrier has stated. Until someone officially invalidates his peer-reviewed research I don't think it's fair to dismiss him. I feel like Carrier isn't to be lumped with your run-of-the-mill mythicists who are often misinformed but have generally the right idea. Carrier is as official as mysticism-related claims can get. That is to say, he gives fair plausibility that a historical Jesus could have existed but makes a strong and reasonable case as to why he might have not.
edit:
It's intuitive really, people so easily dismiss that a great many other gods ever existed, despite tales of them on earth in history, yet Jesus has to be different? This premise alone raises a very good point. Then we go on to find that early Christianity was based on revelation and that there are no contemporary accounts for Jesus's life. This in of itself is grounds to say, that Jesus might not have existed as a historical figure, yet Richard goes on to make an even stronger case. Just because someone is new to the show and shaking previously held ideas doesn't invalidate their work.
why do mythicist always win the debates against christians?
Because apologists try to prove two things: that Jesus was a historical person and their faith. They constantly conflate the two concepts of historicity and faith, which leads to a fundamental misunderstanding of what mysticism is. The argument for historicity is defensible and more likely than mysticism, but they waste a lot of time on proving their faith claims.
Would rather have seen Dr. Carrier alone on the Atheist side. Also, was telling to witness the frustration by Christians.
Theism or Religion- Desperately trying to believe what you wish to be true.
It's been a few decades, but as a teenager who was devoutly Catholic and did all the things Catholic kids do including Altar Boy etc., I wish I could remember the questions I had for the Pastor that I desperately wanted answers for which had me really confused about my Faith, but I don't. Anyway, I had hoped for some amazing revelations/wisdom from him when I asked, but all I got was "We take it on Faith". Whatever was confusing me or didn't make any sense, that was my answer... That is when I remember starting to have doubts.
Reminds me of these apologists that just argue "for the Bible tells me so", as opposed to asking whether the Bible is true in the first place.
In watching something like this, it is really embarrassing the massive difference in intellect on display between Carrier and the apologists
How are there 2 English people , Adam and Eve in Iraq ???
Question: where did the idea of ‘double prophecy’ come from? Seems like it a christian idea.
I think it is a double prophecy. I heard of it as type and antitype from a Christian preacher when I was still a Christian.
Isaiah 53 is not about Jesus. Jesus was not the suffering servant.
Crucifixion is a walk in the park.