Great food for thought Dave as usual. I hunt my Birds Dave but I do have a very old Redtail that I don't hunt anymore. I free fly him two or three times a week as I would sooner he died on the wing then die of boredom in a Mews day after day. Having said that he does get the odd Rabbit but I don't put the effort in to getting him primed for hunting alone as I feel the rigours of proper weight management would be too hard on the old guy. He is happy to hollow on at his own pace and I think has earned the right to please him self at times. Mind you he is very good 99% of the time.
Very interesting point Dave - I know one female who flies her hawk every day on her farm, that bird is loved, cared for, feather perfect, always shining and may occasionally catch something. I have met others who hunt their hawks on the roundabouts at weekends and usually finish up in Tesco’s car park with their birds crashing about on the tarmac after crows. So let’s all be careful how we judge others. As someone who has now reached retirement age, I would rather see a good flight than rush in to dispatch quarry.
WOW. The video that RUclips Falconry needed finally! I tip my hat to you sir for being brave enough to have this conversation even if most falconers look down on people who consider these ideas. I see some in the comments saying we need new language for these kinds of practices (Falconry w/o Hunting) maybe if we did, it could be more openly discussed to keep and fly birds of prey for passion and sport with only catching the occasional prey. How about "Owlry" with owls and for diurnal birds of prey "Gently Falconry" ? 🦅
A topic that often arises in my circles, negative usually if someone isn't actually hunting. I have to keep a little quiet as for me as long as the hawk is well cared for and flown regularly that can be OK. Bit like all animals we should really look after them. Lovely as usual and good food for thought.
Same I hear it a lot and usually not thought of answers I’m given . As a sport Falconry is what it is but to say you can’t keep a raptor because it should hunt for its own mental well being is a very ignorant pseudo fact
@@falconry.davesharpenatureboy it's that word falconry, the bee world's the same I'm sure you will or have seen. It opinions. Have a great Bank Holiday.
Morning so since I lost mine for 2 weeks then got her back I actually enjoyed educating people about her Local residents in the nursing home loved seeing her once I got her back I found it as rewarding as the hunt just talking about these beautiful animals
This was a really interesting video, thank you! I'm at the stage where I'm volunteering, saving money and reading every falconry book I can get my hands on. I'm very much intending to get into hunting but this made me think, in a really good way. I think there should be space for people who can give raptors in captivity a really good life without having to hunt but I feel like we lack the language for that kind of animal, because they're not entirely a working falconry bird but they're certainly not a pet! Even though I fully intend to hunt in the future I can see its entirely likely I'll have one or two birds in my care who won't hunt for whatever reason, so on a smaller level I feel this can apply even to 'true' falconers.
Serious question: do you think the birds 'care' or 'notice' that they aren't hunting? If not, then those who argue its 'cruel' to keep a raptor and *not* hunt with it don't really have an argument. Also, if wild birds need to learn to hunt and captive bred birds never learn or are never entered, how can their quality of life be bad? It's not like they 'know' that they should only be eating food they caught, is it? A fed-up and stress free life is (surely) all raptors'want'?
Would it be possible to do a video on sparrowhawks, I’ve already seen one that you have done but would be great if u could do an updated version. I’m still unsure weather to tether or freeloft mine when I get it, and unsure about hooding it or not. Any advice is much appreciated👍
@billygrey9235 just bare in mind is one of the hardest species to get right , get it wrong and it will keel over dead . Knowledge of weight management will be way more important than how you keep it etc . Hooding go for it and if you eff it up at least you tried ! You won’t be free loting it until it’s trained well even if you do free loft so make sure you have a good tethering set up in place first anyway
If I'd seen your channel, and Ben Woodruff, 20 years ago.... Now, too old to take on an animal that could easily outlive my ability to fly it ... But, thinking is ok, and enjoying learning... I wondered about a Kestrel as "non-hunting" bird? Their flying skills are "pretty" at the least, and, if they decided to hunt some of their typical prey, while out free-flying, it would probably not bother people much if they found out that your bird occasionally took a mouse or lizard? We have red kites ( Rot Milan) around the village, and they are lovely to watch, so another type of kite would likely have that lovely soaring, and be both relaxing but fun, too ... Great stuff, Dave!
I remember that they need especially careful weight management for hunting, and I guess that a "fatty" might not live as long, and not have much interest in poking around after a lure 😄
@@falconry.davesharpenatureboy that's great would need to learn the lure though what would you recommend Aplomado falcon or chilean blue eagle and i have quite a few pigeons near me if i don't have a licence and my bird killed a Pidgeon what would happen to me law wise? or would it just be classed as a accident as i am not intentionally hunting?
Why is the parrot a better pet then? An imprinted falcon kept as a pet and never flown is way better for the bird as it’s so easily pleased as the far more intelligent parrot would Suffer far more if its higher needs aren’t met . I don’t think falcons should be pets but far better pets than a parrot , so how do we justify getting a parrot but not working with a free flown falcon daily …..
Couldnt disagree more, parrots are terrible pets and we are doing them a disservice by reccomending them as pets. They need so much attention and enrichment and can develop self harming habits easily in captivity. A parrot is a whole different beast to a raptor, where in the wild a raptor will spend most of its time perching when its not hunting a parrot is constantly on the go and needs mental and social stimulation 24/7. They are also as loud or louder than raptors and just as capable of causing injury with their beaks that are made to crack nuts.
Dave, as soon as you don't hunt, the compromises start, only flying half the week, fly through the moult because too cold in winter, etc etc. Thousands of years of standards are slipping away because the lazy make excuses and then pretend they are still falconers
Yes but I don’t think that’s any different if you get a hh for hunting or a black kite for pleasure flying ; you either fly them daily and keep super fit or you don’t . One becomes useless at catching stuff the other useless for flying if no wind
@@falconry.davesharpenatureboy Truth is a black kite isn't a falconry bird, as you well know. Fantastic birds on the wing. But falconry by definition is hunting with a trained bird of prey. Hunting road kill with a kite is never going to compete with Goshawks/rabbits or Goldie/hares. Demo flying has its own skills and tricks, but it isn't falconry. Any falconer can demo fly, but most demo flyers would struggle to hunt a raptor successfully. We don't need to water down what counts as falconry. Just admit they have different goals. There is many more compromises in demo flying than falconry would ever allow, trouble is that people want ever more compromises. Where do you draw the line? We have too many fakes, frauds and internet experts already. If you don't hunt successfully then you aren't a falconer. Bird trainer might be a more accurate and honest description.
@davidirving2006 that’s what the videos about , exactly that really ; most people who take up falconry would be better off not doing so but instead flying a non hunting bird; everything would bebbetter off for it
Click bait title 😂 I totally agree with the american system, if you don't hunt then you aren't doing falconry or are a falconer. Demo and non hunting flying needs less skill and knowledge. And to be honest 95% the birds will be operating at a lower level and lower fitness.
We don’t have their option I’ll of hunting all winter and releasing in spring , so most uk falconry birds sit still more or less for half a year with non hunting ….
@@falconry.davesharpenatureboy Even in the US many more people are moulting hawks than there used to be. Flying in the moult is a compromise as you well know. And that is a whole can of worms of its own. But for me there is a higher requirement of skill and effort involved in training a successful hunting hawk than merely flying one.
Great food for thought Dave as usual. I hunt my Birds Dave but I do have a very old Redtail that I don't hunt anymore. I free fly him two or three times a week as I would sooner he died on the wing then die of boredom in a Mews day after day. Having said that he does get the odd Rabbit but I don't put the effort in to getting him primed for hunting alone as I feel the rigours of proper weight management would be too hard on the old guy. He is happy to hollow on at his own pace and I think has earned the right to please him self at times. Mind you he is very good 99% of the time.
I have an old dog like that hehe
Very interesting point Dave - I know one female who flies her hawk every day on her farm, that bird is loved, cared for, feather perfect, always shining and may occasionally catch something. I have met others who hunt their hawks on the roundabouts at weekends and usually finish up in Tesco’s car park with their birds crashing about on the tarmac after crows. So let’s all be careful how we judge others. As someone who has now reached retirement age, I would rather see a good flight than rush in to dispatch quarry.
WOW. The video that RUclips Falconry needed finally! I tip my hat to you sir for being brave enough to have this conversation even if most falconers look down on people who consider these ideas.
I see some in the comments saying we need new language for these kinds of practices (Falconry w/o Hunting) maybe if we did, it could be more openly discussed to keep and fly birds of prey for passion and sport with only catching the occasional prey.
How about "Owlry" with owls and for diurnal birds of prey "Gently Falconry" ? 🦅
A topic that often arises in my circles, negative usually if someone isn't actually hunting.
I have to keep a little quiet as for me as long as the hawk is well cared for and flown regularly that can be OK.
Bit like all animals we should really look after them.
Lovely as usual and good food for thought.
Same I hear it a lot and usually not thought of answers I’m given . As a sport Falconry is what it is but to say you can’t keep a raptor because it should hunt for its own mental well being is a very ignorant pseudo fact
@@falconry.davesharpenatureboy it's that word falconry, the bee world's the same I'm sure you will or have seen.
It opinions.
Have a great Bank Holiday.
@freebirdofreason1994 deffo hehe; had out last lesson yesterday ; handling bees for real !
@@falconry.davesharpenatureboy brilliant Dave lovey thing.👍
Morning so since I lost mine for 2 weeks then got her back
I actually enjoyed educating people about her
Local residents in the nursing home loved seeing her once I got her back I found it as rewarding as the hunt just talking about these beautiful animals
Nice one
This was a really interesting video, thank you! I'm at the stage where I'm volunteering, saving money and reading every falconry book I can get my hands on. I'm very much intending to get into hunting but this made me think, in a really good way. I think there should be space for people who can give raptors in captivity a really good life without having to hunt but I feel like we lack the language for that kind of animal, because they're not entirely a working falconry bird but they're certainly not a pet! Even though I fully intend to hunt in the future I can see its entirely likely I'll have one or two birds in my care who won't hunt for whatever reason, so on a smaller level I feel this can apply even to 'true' falconers.
Hi Dave its all about the well being of the birds in my opinion everyone to their own
Deffo
Could you please do a class on training a raptor for rehabbing/release?
Go on Facebook and look up North East Rapror Rescue . Message John on there he knows more about this subject than I ever will
Serious question: do you think the birds 'care' or 'notice' that they aren't hunting? If not, then those who argue its 'cruel' to keep a raptor and *not* hunt with it don't really have an argument.
Also, if wild birds need to learn to hunt and captive bred birds never learn or are never entered, how can their quality of life be bad? It's not like they 'know' that they should only be eating food they caught, is it?
A fed-up and stress free life is (surely) all raptors'want'?
The birds don’t care at all if they never hunt or even fly free. If they did it would be a tragedy of captive breeding , breeding stock
How can you gender a sparrow hawk when young?
Females are twice the size of
Would it be possible to do a video on sparrowhawks, I’ve already seen one that you have done but would be great if u could do an updated version. I’m still unsure weather to tether or freeloft mine when I get it, and unsure about hooding it or not. Any advice is much appreciated👍
@billygrey9235 just bare in mind is one of the hardest species to get right , get it wrong and it will keel over dead . Knowledge of weight management will be way more important than how you keep it etc .
Hooding go for it and if you eff it up at least you tried !
You won’t be free loting it until it’s trained well even if you do free loft so make sure you have a good tethering set up in place first anyway
Does a chilean blue eagle buzzard need to be hunted or would it be fine just flown
Fine just flown ; most in the uk are flown for displays and not hunted ; but most of those will still go and catch stuff…..
@@falconry.davesharpenatureboy if it goes and catches stuff i am fine with that thanks for replying
My own interests center on my surname.. FAULKNER Keeps me researching. Thanks..
Excellent !
If I'd seen your channel, and Ben Woodruff, 20 years ago.... Now, too old to take on an animal that could easily outlive my ability to fly it ... But, thinking is ok, and enjoying learning... I wondered about a Kestrel as "non-hunting" bird? Their flying skills are "pretty" at the least, and, if they decided to hunt some of their typical prey, while out free-flying, it would probably not bother people much if they found out that your bird occasionally took a mouse or lizard?
We have red kites ( Rot Milan) around the village, and they are lovely to watch, so another type of kite would likely have that lovely soaring, and be both relaxing but fun, too ... Great stuff, Dave!
Kestrels are superb for the flanker who knows their stuff weight wise etc
I remember that they need especially careful weight management for hunting, and I guess that a "fatty" might not live as long, and not have much interest in poking around after a lure 😄
Hey again what about a Aplomado falcon fine for free flying? i know it will probs catch a bird at somepoint
Great to lure or free flying to glove
@@falconry.davesharpenatureboy that's great would need to learn the lure though what would you recommend Aplomado falcon or chilean blue eagle and i have quite a few pigeons near me if i don't have a licence and my bird killed a Pidgeon what would happen to me law wise? or would it just be classed as a accident as i am not intentionally hunting?
@Dave-qz3gc depends where you live?
@@falconry.davesharpenatureboy Newcastle upon tyne UK have big open fields
@Dave-qz3gc is research them both but choline blue be better on hills for soaring , aplos are great too
If you never fly your bird at quarry you will not see it's true athletic abilities.
Very true indeed
I feel so validated 😭😭😭
Hehe
dude same.
I do I want the gyr but it's too much bird.
in the states you must hunt with your birds.you must have a hunting permit in order to even apply for a permit. I say just get a parrot.
Why is the parrot a better pet then? An imprinted falcon kept as a pet and never flown is way better for the bird as it’s so easily pleased as the far more intelligent parrot would
Suffer far more if its higher needs aren’t met . I don’t think falcons should be pets but far better pets than a parrot , so how do we justify getting a parrot but not working with a free flown falcon daily …..
Couldnt disagree more, parrots are terrible pets and we are doing them a disservice by reccomending them as pets. They need so much attention and enrichment and can develop self harming habits easily in captivity. A parrot is a whole different beast to a raptor, where in the wild a raptor will spend most of its time perching when its not hunting a parrot is constantly on the go and needs mental and social stimulation 24/7. They are also as loud or louder than raptors and just as capable of causing injury with their beaks that are made to crack nuts.
Dave, as soon as you don't hunt, the compromises start, only flying half the week, fly through the moult because too cold in winter, etc etc. Thousands of years of standards are slipping away because the lazy make excuses and then pretend they are still falconers
Yes but I don’t think that’s any different if you get a hh for hunting or a black kite for pleasure flying ; you either fly them daily and keep super fit or you don’t . One becomes useless at catching stuff the other useless for flying if no wind
@@falconry.davesharpenatureboy
Truth is a black kite isn't a falconry bird, as you well know. Fantastic birds on the wing. But falconry by definition is hunting with a trained bird of prey. Hunting road kill with a kite is never going to compete with Goshawks/rabbits or Goldie/hares.
Demo flying has its own skills and tricks, but it isn't falconry. Any falconer can demo fly, but most demo flyers would struggle to hunt a raptor successfully. We don't need to water down what counts as falconry. Just admit they have different goals. There is many more compromises in demo flying than falconry would ever allow, trouble is that people want ever more compromises. Where do you draw the line? We have too many fakes, frauds and internet experts already. If you don't hunt successfully then you aren't a falconer. Bird trainer might be a more accurate and honest description.
@davidirving2006 that’s what the videos about , exactly that really ; most people who take up falconry would be better off not doing so but instead flying a non hunting bird; everything would bebbetter off for it
Click bait title 😂
I totally agree with the american system, if you don't hunt then you aren't doing falconry or are a falconer.
Demo and non hunting flying needs less skill and knowledge. And to be honest 95% the birds will be operating at a lower level and lower fitness.
We don’t have their option I’ll of hunting all winter and releasing in spring , so most uk falconry birds sit still more or less for half a year with non hunting ….
@@falconry.davesharpenatureboy Even in the US many more people are moulting hawks than there used to be. Flying in the moult is a compromise as you well know. And that is a whole can of worms of its own. But for me there is a higher requirement of skill and effort involved in training a successful hunting hawk than merely flying one.
Falconer or bird keeper ? One hunts one doesn't, simple.
True words