I unironically was taught DISC profiles in a business class. They now use dominance, influence, steadiness, and conscientiousness. Of course, without knowing the origin of it, just mentally understood the S to mean submissiveness. Now knowing the origin of it is honestly so funny to me.
Olive abs Elizabeth weren't together?? they were actually roommates??? 😭 Thanks for this though. The power dynamics were terrible. And would love to get to see your movie with Abigail Thorn. That needs to get made yesterday.
I imagine that it'll be awhile until we have enough polyam-media around that we can safely not care about annoying/bad ones. Best wishes to you, as well.
About the fiance, maybe it was an attempt at having a worse guy there to make the other alternatives look better, like when Edward saves Bella from a gaggle of rapists it makes him look less creepy by comparison. The fiance might just exist to be a piece of vaguely conservative white bread for the Marstons to look cool standing next to
Having RUclips auto play the first few seconds of videos as I browse sounds like hell, and I am already praying someone will make a browser plugin to fix that.
I remember only being somewhat excited for this movie, that faded so quickly I never actually saw it. Jill Lepore's book was pretty factual about the nuances of all the people within the relationship -really dug into their histories and the affects of their accomplishments - without (from what i remember) condoning or condemning them for their actions. We can never know how healthy the relationship between these three individuals was, but we have a lot of context showing that it wasn't, but was all okay in the end. Kind of like how people see their grandparents relationship as a beautiful example of love - but after 45 years of work and being raised with whatever toxic beliefs that they inevitably internalized. I'm glad it worked out well for THEM, but would never want to have a relationship that starts out that way. Which makes the character choices for Elizabeth the absolute weirdest in this movie because the writers have the most opportunity to self correct his flaws with her characterization. In some ways it feels like the worst of both worlds (highlighting very negative aspects of their relationship without critique but also not taking space to creatively mitigate the relationship to demonstrate something better). And if you are going to reference these things about his work that led to aspects of WW then you have to have a payoff. I'm not sure how you do that with the sorority scene(I don't remember if they were ever present? I think he just interviewed a lot of them after Olive revealed the 'punishments'). Also really annoyed that Olives bracelets, which were supposed to be her subtle interpretation of a wedding ring since they could never marry, is now just costume jewelry? Maybe I'm misremembering the book or misunderstanding your description of the movie, but that kinda sucks?? My take: its from Olive's perspective dealing with the fame of her family vs how much she struggled because of them now falling in love with two people she idolizes and coming to accept that everyone is human - neither hero nor villain. Marsdon is sort of a wild kinky idealist dealing with the constraints of academic propriety and Elizabeth is the grounded center -loving, but more rooted in reality and able to prod at her husband's idealism and philosophical essentiallism. There is an underlying theme of truth - and how actions outside of context are just actions. Sometimes an elevated heart rate is because of an underlying kink and sometimes its just fear or stress because its 1925 or whatever. Lie detectors are a tool (albeit now known as a deeply flawed tool) to help you continue searching for the wider context in the search of people's whole truth. If only there was a fantastical way to do that, but I think we've managed alright? 😉😘 End Scene
I was put off by the title of this movie. It bothers me that the male character has a name and title while the female characters are just "the women." It makes it seem like he is the most important character. It's funny that you brought up Han and Leia. When I was kid, I did not catch on at all that "her mouth said no, but her eyes said yes." I took what Leia said at face value, so I was shocked and disturbed that she wound up with Han. I can remember asking my mom why Leia would choose a guy who was so disgusting to her, and my mom told me that she didn't really mean what she said. I said, "Why would she say that if she didn't mean it?" I was so confused. I can't remember what my mom said, but it didn't clear up my confusion. Now, it seems like a "men writing women" situation. In real life, I think most women are serious when they say they don't like something or someone. I hope all goes well settling into your new place!
Its funny too because Marston doesn't really have an arc in the movie, he's arguably the most boring of the three protagonists. You could rename this movie "Two Women and their Sentient D*ldo" and its basically the same movie. lol And thank you! Pretty well settled now. :-)
As someone who felt seen by this movie & bawled my eyes out through most of it on my 12 hr plane right, I'm very interested to hear your perspective! ^.^
Mandy thank you for getting this video out and I really enjoyed your take on this. I'm so sorry to hear that your move has been stressful and hope that it gets easier for you. So grateful for your attention to detail and you're doing awesome in the RUclips world and podcasting! Miss you in the media world and hope there's more to come when you're settled.
The film reads a bit like alt lifesyles through a "horney dude/evil unicorn hunter" lense, Marsten engaged in unethical objectifying behaviors that put his family in economic peril but is let off the hook because the women in his life happen to be into it. The transgression is itself pretty safe as well: non monogamy is tolerated in society if it is one man and multiple women as is female bisexuality for male consumption.
Ok, earlier comment was for the algorithm. Now that I've finnished the vid: 1. Really engaging, as always! 2. I've not seen the movie and will likely stay that way. I write stories ( in the context of video games) and I'm... really bad at it, so I always appreciate insights on what is good and bad rep. 3. Yikes, a lot of that was uncomfortable. 4. Thanks!
Such a great video, well worth the wait! Hope things are getting better for you! This movie had been on my radar and honestly I'd still watch it, but really appreciate your thoughtful review. As a bi woman and RA, I really don't want to get involved with The Couple, no matter which. (I live in Berlin, and there are many The Couple here) It would be great if we actually had a movie examining Unicorn Hunting dynamics with clarity and intent!
There is a movie called The Unicorn that actually does that a bit. Its a comedy about a couple who decides they want a threesome. It wasn’t a very serious examination but kinda interesting. I may do a review of it one day. Thanks for the comment!
I hadn't heard of this flick before. I'm definitely gunna now, even if just to pick the eyes out of it 😊 I really enjoyed this video. Thanks 💜 Thank you for sharing the end bit too. It's never easy to say it out loud. I get the struggle. It's been a shitty run for me too. When you have the baseline struggle (for me it's ME/CFS) & the shit just keeps piling on....I hope you can catch a break
I know I'm supposed to wait until the end before writing a comment (ref 5:44), but I'm sorry, I can't help chiming in now to say: If I ever see you at a Rachel Lark concert (6:01), I'm totally going to come say hi. :) Also, that would be awesome, on like 12 different levels. (And I'd wait to post until I'd gotten through, but I just realized I haven't gotten my NaNoWriMo words in for the day yet, so... gotta get that in before midnight. More later!)
And now, afterwards, nothing too specific to say about the main content, other than nice work on the analysis (both of you)... And then for the outro, just... sending lots of love and moral support. 😕 Sorry it's been hard. 😢 May it soon get better!
P.S. re 35:20/35:24/36:11 - their "Donate" page, if you scroll down, also has a PayPal link, in case that's helpful (though perhaps you've gotten to it by now via whatever other link). Anyway, I matched your stated pledge... hopefully it gets to the right place. :)
Great video! Representation is always so fraught when the quantity of rep is relatively small. I suspect that we're a long way off before seeing mainstream movies revolving around something like a relationship anarchy situation or even polycules with ace/aro people in them. I guess a lot of tragic love triangles are undermined when everyone likes each other and no "choice" of one over the other is made. It's always a little irksome to me how often polyamory is depicted as polyfidelitous and everyone involved being romantically involved with everyone else. It's just not something I've seen a whole lot in my own life. It'd really be way too much pressure if that sort of thing was the norm, I think! The depiction of those things may have something to do with some socially ingrained insecurity around sex and romance. In other words, if everyone's "with" everyone else, then everything's nice and "equal" (barf). To be clear, I'm a proponent of wanton promiscuity. I just think poly depictions can lose some subversive edge and even realism when the go-to often feels like "everyone's with each other equally". The closed-circle sort of situation puts it all a bit closer in line with a mononormative point of view. Like, the cellular integrity of the "family household" is maintained or whatever. My comment here is pretty rambly, but I'm going to go ahead and post because it can be algo fodder if nothing else!
Yeah for sure! I got into that a bit more in the Unicorn Hunter video, the false comfort and illusion of "equal" that is sought usually by newbies who don't really understand what equality means. Good Polyam Rep does exist out there but it will be a while before its not noteworthy. Anyway, thanks for your rambling! Always enjoy reading them!
Ok I'm recognize that the whole power dynamic start is bad but like.... it was the 20s. Marsten by all accounts was a WEIRD guy with weird ideas. Hed probably be a wife guy nowadays but it all got filtered through very 20s psych professor misogyny. I think these three had a great poly trio in them but had zero language for how to do it and just had to stumble through. And the movie has great sexual chemistry. I think like marsten the movie to its bones supports poly even if it's not clean about it. I will say, the movie has WAY less of a clue about bondage than it does poly. OK recommendation time. Theres a movie i watched on Tubi called Two in The Bush. I loved it
I remember when it came out, and I was in TMS-TWST and other feminist-geeky circles and, that is problematic, fake feminist and bad rep was the ONLY take? Like I only remember dudes liking it. Great video and presentation, but the stuff about it being a hot take got me, as the only hot take for me is the idea that anyone thought it was good actually to start with ae. (and I say this as a massive AR fan, I love DEBS and Girltrash) Also thank you so much for speaking up for Wetʼsuwetʼen!
Maybe it depends on what circles you run in? Idk, I just know in the polyam groups I was in at the time, SO MANY people wouldn't shut up about the movie. But fair! More of a lukewarm take 😊
Its not really fair to use a feminist lens on Marston life because its not something he prescribed to or even supported. It would make more sense for someone that was just a fan of him and knew his theories to make this movie as opposed to trying to make him into this feminist icon he never wanted to be.
![Lil Uzi Vert - Chill Bae [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/D7F42F_JM3U/mqdefault.jpg)
Polycule fight! 😂
From an ace perspective, the movie just seems like some people REALLY want an Oscar.
OMG it really did
I unironically was taught DISC profiles in a business class. They now use dominance, influence, steadiness, and conscientiousness. Of course, without knowing the origin of it, just mentally understood the S to mean submissiveness. Now knowing the origin of it is honestly so funny to me.
You can't make me wait till it's over to make a comment. COMMENT COMMENT COMMENT. Take that!
Oh Vince
Olive abs Elizabeth weren't together?? they were actually roommates??? 😭
Thanks for this though. The power dynamics were terrible. And would love to get to see your movie with Abigail Thorn. That needs to get made yesterday.
I imagine that it'll be awhile until we have enough polyam-media around that we can safely not care about annoying/bad ones.
Best wishes to you, as well.
I look forward to that day
😹 "...my polycule can beat up your polycule..."
Cool that you're featuring Eve Rickert!
Love the extra jokes for subtitle readers
We love giving them a lil treat
This came out wonderfully, Mandy!
Also, when you did the lion cut reveal, I went 'awww' out loud, so, you know, give Tantrum some love for me 💜
I will pass it on
I haven't watched this movie but i knew about the real life story and honestly I have always thought about power dynamics and age and all that
About the fiance, maybe it was an attempt at having a worse guy there to make the other alternatives look better, like when Edward saves Bella from a gaggle of rapists it makes him look less creepy by comparison. The fiance might just exist to be a piece of vaguely conservative white bread for the Marstons to look cool standing next to
Possibly!
I never even seen this and yet I am so hyped.
*I'm* hyped lol
I hope you end up liking it!
Having RUclips auto play the first few seconds of videos as I browse sounds like hell, and I am already praying someone will make a browser plugin to fix that.
I am NOT looking forward to it
It's already happened for me? It doesn't play audio just video and subtitles
you can turn that setting off!! i hate it too and def turned my autoplay off
When you're starved of representation you'll take what you can get
I remember only being somewhat excited for this movie, that faded so quickly I never actually saw it. Jill Lepore's book was pretty factual about the nuances of all the people within the relationship -really dug into their histories and the affects of their accomplishments - without (from what i remember) condoning or condemning them for their actions. We can never know how healthy the relationship between these three individuals was, but we have a lot of context showing that it wasn't, but was all okay in the end. Kind of like how people see their grandparents relationship as a beautiful example of love - but after 45 years of work and being raised with whatever toxic beliefs that they inevitably internalized. I'm glad it worked out well for THEM, but would never want to have a relationship that starts out that way.
Which makes the character choices for Elizabeth the absolute weirdest in this movie because the writers have the most opportunity to self correct his flaws with her characterization. In some ways it feels like the worst of both worlds (highlighting very negative aspects of their relationship without critique but also not taking space to creatively mitigate the relationship to demonstrate something better). And if you are going to reference these things about his work that led to aspects of WW then you have to have a payoff. I'm not sure how you do that with the sorority scene(I don't remember if they were ever present? I think he just interviewed a lot of them after Olive revealed the 'punishments'). Also really annoyed that Olives bracelets, which were supposed to be her subtle interpretation of a wedding ring since they could never marry, is now just costume jewelry? Maybe I'm misremembering the book or misunderstanding your description of the movie, but that kinda sucks??
My take: its from Olive's perspective dealing with the fame of her family vs how much she struggled because of them now falling in love with two people she idolizes and coming to accept that everyone is human - neither hero nor villain. Marsdon is sort of a wild kinky idealist dealing with the constraints of academic propriety and Elizabeth is the grounded center -loving, but more rooted in reality and able to prod at her husband's idealism and philosophical essentiallism. There is an underlying theme of truth - and how actions outside of context are just actions. Sometimes an elevated heart rate is because of an underlying kink and sometimes its just fear or stress because its 1925 or whatever. Lie detectors are a tool (albeit now known as a deeply flawed tool) to help you continue searching for the wider context in the search of people's whole truth. If only there was a fantastical way to do that, but I think we've managed alright? 😉😘 End Scene
I was put off by the title of this movie. It bothers me that the male character has a name and title while the female characters are just "the women." It makes it seem like he is the most important character.
It's funny that you brought up Han and Leia. When I was kid, I did not catch on at all that "her mouth said no, but her eyes said yes." I took what Leia said at face value, so I was shocked and disturbed that she wound up with Han. I can remember asking my mom why Leia would choose a guy who was so disgusting to her, and my mom told me that she didn't really mean what she said. I said, "Why would she say that if she didn't mean it?" I was so confused. I can't remember what my mom said, but it didn't clear up my confusion. Now, it seems like a "men writing women" situation. In real life, I think most women are serious when they say they don't like something or someone.
I hope all goes well settling into your new place!
Its funny too because Marston doesn't really have an arc in the movie, he's arguably the most boring of the three protagonists. You could rename this movie "Two Women and their Sentient D*ldo" and its basically the same movie. lol
And thank you! Pretty well settled now. :-)
He is the most important character.
As someone who felt seen by this movie & bawled my eyes out through most of it on my 12 hr plane right, I'm very interested to hear your perspective! ^.^
Mandy thank you for getting this video out and I really enjoyed your take on this. I'm so sorry to hear that your move has been stressful and hope that it gets easier for you. So grateful for your attention to detail and you're doing awesome in the RUclips world and podcasting! Miss you in the media world and hope there's more to come when you're settled.
The film reads a bit like alt lifesyles through a "horney dude/evil unicorn hunter" lense, Marsten engaged in unethical objectifying behaviors that put his family in economic peril but is let off the hook because the women in his life happen to be into it. The transgression is itself pretty safe as well: non monogamy is tolerated in society if it is one man and multiple women as is female bisexuality for male consumption.
‘RUclips may be getting rid of thumbnails’
….
Say sike right now
That info is from a friend who has assured me its coming eventually. I really want them to be wrong
at 22 minutes, and i have to say, Han Solo was a creep. His scenes with Leia were straight up SA.
Ok, earlier comment was for the algorithm. Now that I've finnished the vid:
1. Really engaging, as always!
2. I've not seen the movie and will likely stay that way. I write stories ( in the context of video games) and I'm... really bad at it, so I always appreciate insights on what is good and bad rep.
3. Yikes, a lot of that was uncomfortable.
4. Thanks!
Thank you so much!
funny how i got an ad for that new zendaya tennis movie the features some sort of poly relationship situation on this video
Abi as Elizabeth reading Sapphic poems 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽 written by Mandy 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 I am so down for this.
Such a great video, well worth the wait! Hope things are getting better for you!
This movie had been on my radar and honestly I'd still watch it, but really appreciate your thoughtful review.
As a bi woman and RA, I really don't want to get involved with The Couple, no matter which. (I live in Berlin, and there are many The Couple here) It would be great if we actually had a movie examining Unicorn Hunting dynamics with clarity and intent!
There is a movie called The Unicorn that actually does that a bit. Its a comedy about a couple who decides they want a threesome. It wasn’t a very serious examination but kinda interesting. I may do a review of it one day. Thanks for the comment!
Awesome stuff. Fascinating video. Just, A+ and i love the production aspects.
Thank you!
I hadn't heard of this flick before. I'm definitely gunna now, even if just to pick the eyes out of it 😊 I really enjoyed this video. Thanks 💜
Thank you for sharing the end bit too. It's never easy to say it out loud. I get the struggle. It's been a shitty run for me too. When you have the baseline struggle (for me it's ME/CFS) & the shit just keeps piling on....I hope you can catch a break
I hope so too
The intro worked!
Great video!! I always enjoy your videos and I hope you keep making them (though no rush! Take care of yourself!) I hope the new year is kind to you
At 15:16, "the killer" is probably "that Keeler" - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonarde_Keeler
Oooohhhh damn, thank you! 😅
Boy am I glad I never watched that movie, and I am doubly glad I watched this video :)
I know I'm supposed to wait until the end before writing a comment (ref 5:44), but I'm sorry, I can't help chiming in now to say: If I ever see you at a Rachel Lark concert (6:01), I'm totally going to come say hi. :) Also, that would be awesome, on like 12 different levels.
(And I'd wait to post until I'd gotten through, but I just realized I haven't gotten my NaNoWriMo words in for the day yet, so... gotta get that in before midnight. More later!)
And now, afterwards, nothing too specific to say about the main content, other than nice work on the analysis (both of you)... And then for the outro, just... sending lots of love and moral support. 😕 Sorry it's been hard. 😢 May it soon get better!
P.S. re 35:20/35:24/36:11 - their "Donate" page, if you scroll down, also has a PayPal link, in case that's helpful (though perhaps you've gotten to it by now via whatever other link). Anyway, I matched your stated pledge... hopefully it gets to the right place. :)
Don't worry, Mandy. I don't unsub unless a youtuber is inactive for 3 years XD
Oh interesting! I remember getting recommended this but I never got round to watching it
Yes, I am grabbed. 🥰💕 0:10
Love your videos and new to your channel. Take you time and do what you need to. I'll still be here at least
Um I have nothing coherent to say but great video and you look great in a bandana!
I am, in fact, grabbed.
But plz not at the cost of thumbnails 😭 (I actually have turned off auto-playing from the feed)
This video is so good!
Thank you so much!
Good stuff!
Great video! Representation is always so fraught when the quantity of rep is relatively small. I suspect that we're a long way off before seeing mainstream movies revolving around something like a relationship anarchy situation or even polycules with ace/aro people in them. I guess a lot of tragic love triangles are undermined when everyone likes each other and no "choice" of one over the other is made.
It's always a little irksome to me how often polyamory is depicted as polyfidelitous and everyone involved being romantically involved with everyone else. It's just not something I've seen a whole lot in my own life. It'd really be way too much pressure if that sort of thing was the norm, I think! The depiction of those things may have something to do with some socially ingrained insecurity around sex and romance. In other words, if everyone's "with" everyone else, then everything's nice and "equal" (barf).
To be clear, I'm a proponent of wanton promiscuity. I just think poly depictions can lose some subversive edge and even realism when the go-to often feels like "everyone's with each other equally". The closed-circle sort of situation puts it all a bit closer in line with a mononormative point of view. Like, the cellular integrity of the "family household" is maintained or whatever. My comment here is pretty rambly, but I'm going to go ahead and post because it can be algo fodder if nothing else!
Yeah for sure! I got into that a bit more in the Unicorn Hunter video, the false comfort and illusion of "equal" that is sought usually by newbies who don't really understand what equality means. Good Polyam Rep does exist out there but it will be a while before its not noteworthy.
Anyway, thanks for your rambling! Always enjoy reading them!
Thanks!
Thank you!
Getting rid of thumbnails is a nonsense decision and RUclips should be ashamed.
RIGHT??!!
@@MainelyMandy Visual media company: I think we need to make this less visually pleasing.
Everyone else: What the fuck are you doing?
💖
Ok I'm recognize that the whole power dynamic start is bad but like.... it was the 20s. Marsten by all accounts was a WEIRD guy with weird ideas. Hed probably be a wife guy nowadays but it all got filtered through very 20s psych professor misogyny.
I think these three had a great poly trio in them but had zero language for how to do it and just had to stumble through. And the movie has great sexual chemistry. I think like marsten the movie to its bones supports poly even if it's not clean about it.
I will say, the movie has WAY less of a clue about bondage than it does poly.
OK recommendation time. Theres a movie i watched on Tubi called Two in The Bush. I loved it
I remember when it came out, and I was in TMS-TWST and other feminist-geeky circles and, that is problematic, fake feminist and bad rep was the ONLY take? Like I only remember dudes liking it. Great video and presentation, but the stuff about it being a hot take got me, as the only hot take for me is the idea that anyone thought it was good actually to start with ae. (and I say this as a massive AR fan, I love DEBS and Girltrash)
Also thank you so much for speaking up for Wetʼsuwetʼen!
Maybe it depends on what circles you run in? Idk, I just know in the polyam groups I was in at the time, SO MANY people wouldn't shut up about the movie. But fair! More of a lukewarm take 😊
Its not really fair to use a feminist lens on Marston life because its not something he prescribed to or even supported. It would make more sense for someone that was just a fan of him and knew his theories to make this movie as opposed to trying to make him into this feminist icon he never wanted to be.
No... I think he and his wives could be pretty fairly described as feminist...