oh my god, the jail cell bug. i scripted that area. it was supposed to be written differently but the game always locked up. the programmers could not figure out why. they tried several things. i spent 2 days rescripting the area different ways and finally got the jail cell to work what seemed 100% of the time. and the testing guys passed it. of course, once a zillion people tried it, some people got the freeze again.
I can't even begin to imagine how many things can go wrong once people play through a game an infinite number of different ways! A reset there wouldn't have been so bad if I hadn't had to go through the forest maze again... Thanks for your work on the writing for Secret of Evermore. It's definitely what stood out the most to me and seems to be very memorable for many people here as well.
@@mazthespaz1 Nice to read another one of you. Years back Brian Fehdrau suddenly appeared on the GameFAQs forums for SoE (under ItsBillsFault ;) ) and now you here. :) Thanks for your amazing work back then. SoE was my first ever SNES RPG and god, i still love this game and play it at least every year once since back then. :) Looking out for you in the credits this time!
My name is Brian Fehdrau, and as the lead programmer, I'm inclined to be defensive, but the truth is that you raise a few good points about the bugs, which I have said for many years have left me apologizing to people when they tell me they played the game. Although I wish I could bathe in the kind words of those have since told me they loved the game, in spite of any bugs they might have had to deal with, I think your video is somewhat validating of my worries that not everyone could enjoy the game. So, I'd offer to you, and to anyone else affected, my apologies for the bugs that made it into the released version. We were a crew of relative newbies to the industry and we made a lot of mistakes that we weren't able to fix before deadlines arrived and the game had to go out the door. I've always felt bad about kids who played the game and had a bad experience. I will say that a lot of your other dislikes are things that other people actively like, so in that respect I think it may have been a matter of personal taste. For instance, a lot of people liked the alchemy system vs. effectively-infinite mana pools that didn't really require you to be responsible with your magic usage. Many saw that as a challenge. Similarly so for the market. It all depends on expectations, really. Speaking of the market, I _would_ agree there was too much forced running of long distances back and forth through its maze-like layout. As a gamer myself, I hate make-work and fetch quests. I also agree that the trial-and-error mazes like Thraxx's or the sewer pipes were bad. I plead innocence, as I worked on neither the market nor the mazes, being more focused on the engine that ran the game than on the scripted content, though I suppose I could have at least said something and maybe influenced the design, I dunno. Artists and writers tend not to be very receptive to the sort of usally-autistic opinions that programmers might express. ;) Anyway, for good or bad, I appreciate that you at least gave our game a try. I hope you had at least a few good moments among the bad, and no hard feelings about the review!
Hey there! Thanks for taking a moment to stop in and leave a message on the video. For what it's worth, I seem to be among very few here that didn't love my experience with Secret of Evermore. There are many people, if you scroll through this sea of comments, that adored the game you and your team made and appreciate it as a fond childhood memory. You will definitely find lots of positivity to bask in! I hope I said it enough in the video that this was my own personal experience with the game and I certainly don't represent everyone out there. I struggled a lot and didn't enjoy a lot of the action aspects of this one, but I did adore the music and atmosphere, as well as the story. Lots of the ideas were great, and I think if I ever did replay this game, I'd dive into the alchemy a lot more and be more confident purchasing ingredients. In a first playthrough without any guide in hand though, it was difficult to know what to focus on in a game like this that provides so many options but doesn't really lead you to any of them. And I really wish I loved the market! It just ground my momentum to a halt... I couldn't leave without the spoils though! Thank you for your efforts here, and your kindness in this message as well. Anyone that has bothered to make a game and has brought joy to people out there (and in this case, many!) has my respect.
@@hungrygoriya I just wanna say that I think your experience is entirely valid and that you really don't need to temper the tone of your review at all. You took some unlucky paths through the game, and were also just not in the mood for some of the stuff it threw at you. I accept that there were some flaws and I also don't mind that the game didn't hit the same way for you as it did for someone who liked it, though obviously I would have been happier to know you'd had a good time of it, for your sake more than mine. I've long since learned not to beat myself up too hard for mistakes I made when I was younger and had fewer skills and less wisdom. It's just the nature of exuberant youth vs. careful experience. So don't feel bad about the tone of your review! It's totally understandable and not really that hard to hear from my standpoint, especially since I agree with many of the things you said. Indeed, working on Evermore and making mistakes probably taught me stuff that allowed me to produce better content later on. Learning is usually about trial and error, so I try not to crucify myself for the errors I've made, as long as they meant I would put better stuff out into the world as a result. Anyway, thanks again for taking a run at our game. It's nice to know it can still attract attention after all this time! If you ever do a second pass, I'd recommend that you check into some of the romhacks out there that fix a few of the low-hanging-fruit bugs, rebalance the combat a bit, and/or allow a second person to control The Dog. (That's one of the few things I still choose to regret, btw. I really wish we'd taken the chance on softlocks and allowed players to play co-op. You could play co-op during development, but we were just too scared of people getting The Boy and The Dog stuck somehow, since we knew it happened sometimes in Mana.)
I loved the game. Bugs or reloading save games was normal back then, I didn't care at all. Also the difficulty and frustration of the game was fine for the 90s. I got stuck for weeks at the part where you need to get the diamond eyes for the spaceship. But that's how games were played back then 😂 I never would have thought I would find a dev of SoE on the Internet it made my day. 😂
@@LuckyRaphi Haha it's fun to make someone's day basically by existing! 😆 You know, it's funny you mention that bugs and such were common back then. I had the impression that Nintendo was a major stickler for finding bugs and refusing certification, but in the end I think publishers always found some leverage to push their game through. That happened with us and maybe it happened with other devs. Still, feeds bad to leave bugs anyway. Ah well, at least these days people can patch the rom to fix some of them, and they have. Anyway, cheers for the kind words! 🙂
Your game was one of my absolute favorites when I was a kid. From graphics, gameplay, soundtrack and atmosphere. I still love it today! I did never knew about those bugs. Greetings from germany!
I got this game for Christmas when it originally came out. I finished the game with no guides. Looking back I have no idea how I managed to figure out everything.
I finished it also without a guide back in 1995 or 96? I later replayed it on an emulator and found out... I missed a lot of spells and areas, one in a sewer you can never go back too.
I am sorry you had a bad experience with this game. I played this game when it came out many, many years ago, and I have to say it was my absolute favorite games on the SNES. As a matter of fact I played it multiple times and beat it each time without any issues.
@@lexluthermiester From watching the stream I think a lot of the problem might have been she never used offensive alchemy spells. She was too worried about ingredients running out despite almost everything being available to buy. Though they do take a long time to level up, just like the weapons so that could also hurt the fun. As a kid I loved trying to mix spells like Crush and Flame or Lance and Acid rain together.
You're right, but for most of the game, I didn't have a lot of money to really buy ingredients or have regular access to them. And by the time I did, my weapons were high level enough that it made more sense to use them. Different strokes I guess! I'm glad you liked the alchemy system. It just didn't click with me.
I had a bunch of people in the streams that loved the market. That's why I spent the time to figure it out, because people reassured me it'd be fun. I did not have fun, haha
Fun fact: The Cecil in the shop 2/3rds through the game is supposed to be the main character from Final Fantasy IV (II in the US) after he had retired from being king.
@@CurlyFromTheSwirly They decide they are too old to do the job and step down and give the throne to their son or another relative. I happened a lot back in the day and still does.
I'm sorry to hear you didn't enjoy this. Secret Of Evermore was one of the most joyful experiences of the SNES for me, if not the most, if not the most joyful video game experiences of all. I bought it used, so no manual, and needed to figure everything out myself. I didn't even know about the ability to charge up attacks past 100% until way into the game when I did it on accident. The humor stood out a lot, as did the fact that it felt like actual English writing, not Japanese writing that was translated. The settings were distinct, and story was full of character. However, I discovered that over time. I bought it after trying it out (the used game shop I got it at let customers try games before buying), and the first 10 minutes or so hooked me in. The alchemy felt more like the survival lite aspects you see in modern games, like Witcher 3, where you are spending a lot of time looking for stuff. I enjoyed the searching for stuff, and it meant being more thoughtful about when to use magic.
I'm glad you had such a wonderful time with it. I really wanted to enjoy this one more but it just never started feeling fun for me. I can definitely understand why people like this one, and in a subsequent playthrough where I'd be more comfortable trying out alchemy, I might enjoy it a lot more for myself too.
I definitely liked it a lot and I beat it more than once, and honestly some of the things she's talking about made me think that it was a problem with an emulator or something. I don't remember having any of these issues. I only beat it two or three times though. I would say that I enjoyed Chrono trigger more. I think I beat Chrono trigger more than any other RPG I ever played. I mean, unless you count Diablo 2 as a RPG I technically beat that a million times or so
@@Tyjohnable I didn't use an emulator when I played this, but glad you didn't have any problems. I've read from some folks here that experienced glitches and some that experienced none, so you're in the better club!
@@hungrygoriya Yeah I guess I either got really lucky or I'm remembering with nostalgia glasses because I don't remember ever having problems picking up the stuff that the dog was sniffing or hitting enemies, but I often did charge up I did find it kind of annoying that hitting an enemy with anything other than 100 did no damage Hitting them when your charge is at 80% should make you do 80% damage. Hitting them when your charges at 25% should make you do 25% damage. Seriously, what's the point of having the numbers if they're meaningless? Hitting an enemy at 90% does the same amount as hitting an enemy at 4%
@@Tyjohnable Yeah, there are a few details like that that bugged me too. Most of the time if you see me swinging at enemies with the spear, it's because I'm trying to level it up so I can eventually throw it. It was a bummer to always start at 0 again with a brand new spear.
One of those rare cases where you had to be there when it came out. I get it, some day people will look back at games released today and wonder how we put up with things.
I don't know that it's necessarily this. I play a lot of games from this generation and enjoy them quite a bit. I have patience of steel in many cases, but this game just pushed me past my tolerance threshold.
I got this the first day it was out but I was so disappointed in how the game play was as it was supposed to be based off of the Secret of Mana engine and it is some what but not exactly the same. The long boring puzzling dungeons was what really got to me fast as mentioned in this video and the spells take FOREVER to level up because many spells use the same ingredients as others and many times you have to go hunting for them in the wild instead being able to buy them. then there are those spell that you can only get the ingredient once you use it and can't have multiple. After beating the game I returned it to the store and got a refund and got Chrono Trigger which was much much better trade and game. Today I can go back and play it with more enjoyment as I am very familiar with it and I cheat using Game genie codes to make my experience better.
This is an excellent video that helps manage expectations. You hit on why I don't like this game either: it feels like work. I'd completely forgotten about the money exchange nonsense. That, and the flea market, are the worst parts of the game for me. I actually ran into that very same bug where your dog gets stuck in the corner. I thought that was just me, I did not realize that was just a problem with the game. I reaaaaaaally want to like Secret of Evermore. I love the theme, and how it looks and sounds different than other action RPGs... but it just doesn't work. Too many problems
Thank you for saying this. I've seen so many fiercely passionate people that love this game around the internet over the past few days, and it's very heartening knowing my feelings are justified. I rewatched your original review after I published mine yesterday and was glad to know I wasn't alone, but I just realized that you also have a video where you revisited Secret of Evermore! I need to check that out! I appreciate you stopping by!
Well, I mean, it worked for many people -- you guys just didn't like it. Some people not liking a game does not make for a bad game; every game isn't for everyone, and this one is far from universally panned.
I love it when two youtubers I like interact. I loved Secret of Evermore but both of your criticisms are completely justified. Maybe somebody will fix it like The no crying Mario hack for Yoshi's Island. 🤣😂🤣😂🍻
Just curious about the glitches. Are you guys using emulators are genuine hardware? I have sunk tons of times over decades now and again on this game and never experienced any of these. I am using an actual cart on either an actual SNES or a clone.
Longtime Secret of Evermore fan here to give his two cents. Not going to criticize you necessarily for this review, obviously the game has flaws and not everyone is going to like it as much as me. Not saying this as a criticism of you per se, but there are some issues with how you played the game. You really are supposed to use and rely on magic a lot, and it is actually very feasible to do so. You mentioned you didn't have the money to get the ingredients you needed because you were buying healing items. The biggest thing you missed was using the Heal spell that you get early in the game. It is SUPER useful. When you first get it, it barely heals, which is probably why you overlooked it, but once you level it up a few times it because incredibly potent and extremely efficient because it uses common ingredients. Healing items become totally obsolete and you can spend your hard-earned money on more ingredients. You'll have plenty. Also, whenever your dog's attack levels up (up to 3), you're supposed to go into the AI menu and increase the number on the right side of the screen so the dog will use charged attacks. You can complain that the game doesn't explain to you or do this automatically, which is legit. The dog becomes super OP late in the game, doing an absolute truckload of damage with a fully-charged strike. Your review was fairly written and well-done, so props to that. Again, I know the game's flaws, I'm not expecting you to play through it again or anything, but hopefully at least somebody reading these comments won't overlook this stuff.
Interesting thoughts here! I know the heal spell was definitely tempting, and I did use it a little bit, but to me it made more sense to use things that I could regularly find and have access to at shops rather than use a spell that I only had limited casts for. I think for a long time at the beginning, I wandered around with 16 casts of heal in my inventory just in case I needed it after running out of the healing items. I take your point though. I could've just dove in. I knew about raising the aggression/charge level for the dog character, but it just made battles feel even longer. I tried it out for a bit and we kept getting steamrolled by the nearby enemies that would kill him while he was charging up. I can see the appeal of it. By the end of the game in the futuristic area, the dog was a total beast and I appreciated the helping hand in battle. I hope that people do take your advice into consideration here.
@@hungrygoriya I totally get the whole "don't wanna use it because limited resources thing" because that's a way I tend to feel in games too. There are spells in Evermore where scarcity of certain ingredients can be an issue, Heal isn't one of them though.
@@hungrygoriya Something worth mentioning is some charged attacks give you invulnerable frames during startup. The level 3 attacks for the Swords (the actual swords, not the Bone,) and the axes do, and getting a special item called the Thug's Cloak raises your dodge rate so even if you get attacked on startup of your charged attacks you'll automatically dodge and do the attack again until it goes off.
I remember finding the exchange system used in that time period refreshing, back when I was twelve. It goes to show that different people can find reasons to love or hate different systems, based on their expectations and previous experiences. Amazing video.
Thank you! I suppose I don't like anything that just grinds the story to a halt, but I can see why someone might find that refreshing, versus a world where everyone just magically uses the same money. It's someone's imagination come to life, after all!
@@Merknilash You and just about everyone else here! I don't know why it didn't click with me, but I hated how the game tempted you with these awesome items but put them behind a huge undertaking like the market.
There were also references to Final Fantasy in a couple of places. FF VI characters are in the audience at the Colloseum and Cecil from FF IV runs a weapon shop in the medieval world.
Yeah! Those were some cool touches! I didn't want to spoil these things in the video for people who hadn't played the game for themselves, but I busted out laughing at Cecil's shop.
I understood all of your criticisms for this game, and yet it is still my favorite SNES game if all time. One trick to making the Bazaar trading less tedious is to go outside the Bazaar back in to the desert and go up and to the left until you find a whirlpool of sand that spins you in circles, sit there for about a minute and it will suck you underground where you will be given 99 spice and 99 rice. Makes trading much easier. Not that I expect you would replay the game just for this little gimmick but maybe someone will get some use out of it.
I'm really glad that you enjoyed this one. I wanted so badly to like it more than I did, but hopefully someone will get some use out of your cool exploit! I had no idea that was there. Thank you for sharing!
There's also a corner in front of the palace in that same city where you can pick up infinite, or near infinite, call beads. And a glitch/exploit that can give you infinite bazooka rounds by using the knockback animation from firing the bazooka to push yourself into the crater where the dog statue used to be. I got it to work once but I don't fully understand how the glitch works.
The algorithm just offered me this video, and I had to click IMMEDIATELY, as Evermore is one of my favourite games of the 16 bit era. I'm only a few minutes in and I already want to say THANK YOU for putting the titles on screen when showing footage of other games. I wish more youtubers would do this.
Thanks! I hate scratching my head wondering what cool game I just saw in someone else's video so I've made it a point to do that. It's so hard to image search from something like "cute helmet-wearing protagonist with axe", haha
just wanted to say that I really appreciate your commitment to these otherwise forgotten games. I'm drawn in by the chance to get a taste of what the game was like, "okay, I'll give this two minutes and I'm out," but I always stay to hear your aggressively holistic take, and I especially appreciate your zeal for the game manuals! I loved seeing your innate politeness being slowly broken down by your experience with the game, and the way you let the game's shortcomings speak for themselves by what you're showing on screen - that long pan across your notebook was subtle and damning. your videos have really come a long way, thank you for taking such care in making them!!!
This is really sweet! Thanks for your kind words. I've learned a lot over the years with editing and writing, so it's nice to know that's shining through a bit in the final video that gets put out there. Secret of Evermore really wore me down over time. I kept waiting for the moment I might start really enjoying it, but it just never came. There are only a few other games I've played that have frustrated me almost as much as this, and those are Phantasy Star II, Elemental Gimmick Gear, and Breath of Fire.
I always find it wild how divisive this game is. It's easily on my top 5 SNES favorites. When I first played it, it was just so enchanting and atmospheric. Still is. I found myself immersed in this mysterious world, and a character brought straight from the Earth we know helped achieve that. And of course, it was the first video game soundtrack written by the legendary Jeremy Soule. Graphically, musically, and in writing, it was a masterpiece. The combat was darn near identical to Secret of Mana, and that's generally a well-received game. I had no trouble stomaching it, and actually enjoyed the toss-up between using a spell or charging a weapon. I found myself focusing on spells where the resources were readily available to purchase, and casting them frequently. If anything, my complaint would be that even by level 3 or 4, alchemy would absolutely destroy everything TOO easily. Even buying materials, the rate at which it killed would pay for itself. But to me, the combat felt tactical. I needed to make sure I lined up that shot perfectly so I didn't waste the charge. The dungeons were definitely hearkening back to old games with their mazey-structure. Dead ends, loops, and bad-warps can be frustrating, but I gained a sense of satisfaction from exploring the new areas, and sniffing out those rare ingredients or items in the areas. There are just so many secrets and the completionist in me got that sweet endorphin rush as I collected more and more. Sure, I could just restore MP at an Inn in other games, OR I could get the satisfaction of making progress with every ingredient I had sniffed out by my faithful companion. Even if the mazes felt tedious, the atmosphere kept me in the game and enjoying it. But the bugs do suck. Both the glitches and Mazquitos.
By the way, there is an improvement patch made for this game. It's actually really good, since it enhances the weakest parts of the game, and I still get to enjoy the atmospheric game I always have.
If I'm being completely honest, I didn't love the combat in SoM either. I think I had an easier time with it because of the weapon diversity, and eventually leaned heavily into spellcasting towards the end game after getting everything levelled up. I think it's just not something I personally enjoy. I also love a good dungeon, especially one I can map. I just really didn't like the "choose a path" ones where you'd end up down a pit, have to get dumped back to the start again, and start over. I'd take wandering with a ton of random encounters in a turn-based game over that any day. I'm so glad you had such a good experience with this game. You're among many here that treasure your time in childhood with it, and while I tend to enjoy most of the games I play, there was too much here that I didn't enjoy in my first playthrough that put me off of wanting to play it again. I will live vicariously through you and many others that have such fond memories of this adventure. Thanks for sharing your story!
Sad to hear you didn't enjoy it. This is honestly one of my favorite SNES games. The aesthetic was so unique, and Jeremy Soule's first soundtrack is fantastic. It's a shame the magic system is just as broken as SoM's but at least the whole alchemical thing was its own spin. I still go back and play this every now and then.
Yeah, I think the alchemy system was definitely an interesting touch. I just wish it felt a little easier to use at the beginning of the game. I lost interest by the time I could really take advantage of it.
whoa Jeremy Soule holy shit, that's awesome. guild wars 2 has an incredible soundtrack, I mean of course he's known for so many great games but GW2 is one of the only game soundtracks I listen to just because I love the music.
My favourite section of the game was the ambient sounds around the market, then outside of the arena how it's all silent except for birds, then you get to the arena and the cheering and music. Loved it.
This brings back some fond memories. I bought this game back in the day after saving up my allowance for months, because I thought it was a sequel to Secret of Mana. Oops! But I still had tons of fun and yeah, there are some parts that are infuriating if you don't have a strategy guide (the German version came with one, and I at least didn't encounter any bugs while playing, so I guess our version was patched?). But playing while abusing the alchemy-system was what was the most fun: I could just not stop collecting, buying, and using alchemy-stuff. Especially that weird fist-spell ended up killing even the final boss. I was so ower-powered it was ludicrous. Everything just smashed by a huge fist from the sky and 90+ of each ingredient. I'd never have thought someone would try to play the game without constantly using magic, that feels painful, ouch.
I used some magic towards the end of the game, especially heals and buffs, but offensive stuff I barely touched. It's cool to know that there's a few spells that really pack a punch (pun intended) and I think another issue I had was knowing what to focus on. There were so many offensive spells and I didn't really elaborate on it much in the video, but I had no idea which ones I'd need. Would I fight something with elemental properties and benefit from an element-based spell? Should I just go for a strong physical magic attack that wasn't tied to any elements and hope it'd be good? It seemed like a big gamble to pick something randomly and hope it'd see me through... but those are all first-time playthrough problems I guess.
@@hungrygoriya yeah, a lot of those problems were kind of tapered over I feel, by our version coming with a strategy guide inside. Like, it means for most of the game (later chapters like the medieval one were woefully short, probably for the better, Secret of Mana's strategy guide revealed everything up to detailed maps of the final dungeon, and Lufia II's strategy guide was not much better) I already knew where to go to pick up the best spells and components. Like the fist-spell, if you don't already know that the game follows the Mana-model of making spells both stronger and changing their graphics to look it, you'd just go "ugh, this spell just drops a tiny fist, what a let-down" and then never use it again. Another thing that most players would be lost at the first time through is the market mechanics. If you have the strategy guide and a community posting tricks like mad to your favorite gaming magazine, you get lots of items, equipment and also filthy, filthy rich by using them. I have no idea how a player would ever know this without many hours of experimenting. (It probably also didn't help that I'm someone really bad at finding their way. In many RPGs, even if I had a clear map of where to go, I managed to get massively overleveled simply by constantly running down the wrong path and feeling compelled to kill everything I saw. In a Mana-like game like Evermore, this means your power spirals out of control due to the amount of magic, weapon and character EXP you drown in. Eventually, nothing will stop you.)
I love how the German strategy guide (the one for Secret of Mana, as well) came with a big red stripe on the cover reading "Achtung! Wer dieses Buch verliert, ist verloren!" Translation: "Caution! He who loses this book is lost/doomed!" :D
My first play through in 1995 at 13 years old was the same - magic seemed very weak and I didn’t use much On second playthru I grinded it more and found it to be pretty awesome Some spells were just bad though
christmas 1996 SoE is wrapped under the christmas tree. Everytime my mom takes the dog for a walk i open the gift, play it for 15 minutes and re-wrap the box. The game may not be perfect, even flawed at some points. But the memories are priceless.
Back in the day I played Secret of Evermore all the way to just before you move on to the last level, which I think was outer space. Anyways, you talk to this dude and give him something, then you're supposed to get on a ship and go onto the next stage. Instead of doing that, after I gave him the item I exited the building and explored around a bit, then went back in. Dude asked for the item again, I couldn't go on without it. So I backtrack to where I found it... not there. Looked all over, had to resort to calling the Nintendo hotline and basically the game counselor told me I was screwed, I'd discovered a glitch. All these years later still bugs me I didn't beat it.
Oh nooooooo... I know exactly what you're talking about and it sucks that the item just despawns forever. I'm sorry that happened. I hate leaving things undone as well so I can imagine how frustrating that feels.
The same thing happened to me when I was a kid and it was my first time playing too. Ha ha ha ha ha. It's nice to know that others got to experience that bug too.
There are some games you just have to give up on & not beat. Unless you could throwing the controller at it. Luckily, we can watch walkththoughs of just about any game now.
There is an item, I think it is a gauge that does something like that, and if I recall you end up picking a duplicate of an items near raptors to fix it. It isn’t the item you need and it is the same gourd you got the other item from. I don’t know if this is the bug you are talking about though.
There's a lot about Secret of Evermore I love in terms of game design. It makes a game out of so many otherwise routine interactions - from shopping for the best bargains in the marketplace to hunting for ingredients with your dog to hiding so many little secrets and alchemy formulas in almost every area - and it complements the maze style of the dungeons and world very well. If every nook and cranny hides a secret, and every little detail can hide some kind of clue, you become trained very quickly to learn that there's a reward for poking away at every little thing. It's wonderful design in that way. But the game is clearly unfinished. The sheer number of glitches and game breaking bugs alone is frankly unacceptable. Hell the first time I played it as a kid I triggered two separate glitches that preventing me from progressing. But not only that, the game's combat becomes less balanced the further you go in and the size of the worlds and the secrets within drops as you progress through each world. This is a game that definitely could use the modern Square treatment of sprucing up their old SNES games for a Switch remake - or even just rerelease. Fix the glitches and add a little bit more/rebalance the second half and you'd have something worth playing. This will never happen though, so the game will remain an odd curiosity, with everything interesting about it overshadowed by its blatant flaws as it's slowly forgotten as it remains confined to the SNES.
I appreciate your perspective on the exploration stuff. You're right in that there's lots to find and uncover and I did enjoy that, at least when I could find the item I was trying to pick up. The game does feel a bit unfinished in many ways. The glitches I mentioned only required a reset, but I did lose quite a bit of time running back parts of the game I'd already been through to make up for it. I couldn't agree more that Secret of Evermore could use a remake. There are so many little quality of life things to bring to the equation along with fixing the glitches you mentioned.
@@hungrygoriya Oh yes, thankfully the game is fairly generous with its save points. Assuming you know you got glitched anyway... I will say that any rebalance would need to overhaul the entire combat as well too, which I agree is also a low point of the game. Speaking of the FuSoYa patch you mentioned I did play a balance hack for this game about a year ago which added features like shared experience points for linked weapons and spells and rebalanced the stat distribution for enemies and the dog. And that did help reduce the grind to encourage experimenting with different abilities and weapons while keeping the difficulty up. But, as you mentioned, you still have the tediously slow weapon combat, just now with enemies that can potentially kill you. Which actually ended up making the end game worse. There's a reason even Trials of Mana, with its much, *much* faster combat, still moved away from the ring system for its remake. So Evermore would need something else to fix its action RPG combat.
Secret of Evermore is one of my favorite RPGS of all time. I am, in no way, hating on your opinion. I actually find it incredibly interesting to hear your perspective. Just having experienced this gem cements your pedigree as a cultured gamer, in my opinion.
It makes me happy to know that so many people have fond memories of this one. I really wish I'd gotten on with it better, but it is what it is! And thanks for your kindness, by the way. I appreciate it!
I loved the market. I think its important to understand that back in the days when this game was new, people didnt have the internet and gamefaqs and such, and people did NOT take for granted a 100% have everything approach to gaming. So every item you got from the market, which again was optional, felt like a really special thing you earned and cherished that you could brag to yourself about knowing other plebs didnt do it (and many didnt). Feeling obligated to get them all however, I could see it as a massive wall of work just slopped in the middle of the game.
Well, going around the market and learning what was at each booth and then seeing them described in the manual was the main draw for me. No guide necessary! I wanted all the boosts and buffs. I wonder how much different the back half of the game would've felt if I'd left some or all of them behind. I know that some of them are apparently bugged anyway.
I feel that a lot of the reasons why players struggle with this game so much, is that they are lacking critical need-to-know information, and true, a game should tell you these things, but... if you go into the game knowing them... then you will get a much better experience. I can offer a few tips right off the bat: The game really wants you to do hit-and-run tactics, and you are supposed to choose what enemies you will fight, and which are simply not worth fighting. Also, enemies are meant to have different weaknesses and timing in their attacks. The flying skulls you mentioned? You will always want to use spells on those. In fact, the first time you encounter them is right after you get a spell called Crush. Killing the skulls awards you with more money than it takes to buy the reagents for Crush, and the Skulls are actually weak against that spell (and so are their stronger brothers later in the hedge maze) so there's an infinite money/ludicrously powerful spell levelup exploit to take advantage of, if you know it exists. All flying enemies are hard to hit with melee attacks because, well, they fly. Picture yourself holding a stick, and picture a bat flying in to bite your ears and picture how hard it would be to actually hit that bat by swinging at it. It would be fairly difficult and you'd have to time it just right. Spears are difficult to use, because they are more meant to be a thrown weapon. Swords' Lv2 charge is ludicrously powerful, downright OP even. If you know what enemies to kill, what to avoid and run past, the game is much more fun. Also, knowing what to grind on is also a huge help. I plan on doing a playthrough of it sometime on my channel, or at least a few tips videos because I feel a lot of people end up in your shoes, they like the aesthetics, sound, but struggle with the gameplay. Once you figure it out, though, it's quite fun! Perhaps one day if I ever do cover the game.. maybe you might take a look at it. Or not, either way.
This would be a great resource for people. You're right: the game doesn't really fill you in on very much in this sense. When you know it, you know it and it pays off for you but when you don't? Struggle-fest!
@@hungrygoriya Yeah, I will say that I struggled a lot, and I wanted to learn its secrets and after several playthroughs, I discovered things that made the game secretly awesome!
@@mazthespaz1 Crush is so awesome, you get it at the start of Chapter 2, but it is easily powerful enough to last until the space station, in fact Crush if you level it up will womp that silly rat boss in like 30 seconds and you can keep him locked down to where he can only use a spell or two in return. Pretty sure a level 9 crush will do 400+ damage to pretty much anything in the game, it's just once you get to the space station, thanks to the ammo bug, you get infinite best ammo for the bazooka, you don't need Crush by then. Then, once you get Energize and the Lv3 neutron blade... you won't need the bazooka either. Add in Horace's invincibility spell and the last boss is an utter joke.
I barely remember using weapons to attack, because I think I just cheesed the heck out of Alchemy. There was a fight I had no idea how to complete, so I levelled up a skill (that involved a fist falling from the sky, Crush?) from Lv0 to like, Lv15, and then I could one-hit KO almost anything from there on
Same here, it was just the Crush show until you got that end game spell that instantly charged your attack bar, then you could throw Laser Lances 24/7.
Weapons skills suck because 1) the enemy has attack priority over you 2) you have to wait for a meter to fill up to do a meaningful attack 3) you had to kill 100 or 200 things before you can leave up your weapon and you get a new weapon LONG before you get to level 2 let alone 3 4) each weapon has to be separately mastered you never become good with swords, just good with each particular sword i.e. once you get the Bronze Spear you don't get the exp you got from the Bone Spear, so you have to train weapons all over again. 5) Throwing the Big Damn Rock Hard Ball/Crush is cheaper and more effective time and money wise than taking 10-15 seconds to charged up a fancy anime move. 6) There is no elemenal rock/paper/scissors just spam what does the most damage for the least money 6) it takes about 20-30 minutes to level a formula to level 5 and it's viable for the rest of the game, Crush and Fireball from Nobilia gives you 150 castings which can carry you through gothica unless you get hopelessly lost, then failing that there is Lance, Sting, and even Flash if you didn't find any of those. 7) paused damage 8) You get 6 beads per Evermore leader (Horace can give you 12) plus whatever Call Beads you find is more than enough to cheese bosses in seconds. 9) Combat becomes much less after you Finish Gothica, as it's mostly fetch quests and puzzles. Weapons only become viable at the final boss location as you get Energize right before you do the final boss, in which leveling up the Future Weapons in prehistoria takes 5 minutes and the last encounter Alchemy damage sucks (the last enemy takes 1/64 Alchemy Damage, while spamming level 3 sword break the 999 barrier) but support effects like Hypnosis and Disrupt work wonders.
Sorry to hear you had a bad time, this is one of my all time favorite RPGs from the SNES era. Alchemy is actually completely broken in this game, if you find some of the good formulas and start spamming them, you can kill all enemies and bosses without ever swinging a sword. Also, I remember when I was a teen, I would replay through this game just to get to the market section and play out all the trading, I know most people hate it, but I totally loved it :D
I wish I'd felt more confident to try alchemy. I saw the weapons as a free way to get through the game until I could save up some cash, and by the time I had a good chunk of change, I could throw a spear and never really looked back at the alchemy. I honestly can't see what people love so much about the market, but I'm glad you like it haha... you'd be the friend I'd pass the controller off to for that part while I went to make a snack. It would be a balanced friendship!
Boy… if you didn't like this game, you'd probably _hate_ the game it inspired by. But, let me address some of the things you pointed out: - The intro cutscene was a stylistic choice. _The Secret of Monkey Island_ does a very similar gag during the first part of the game where the character describes a ton of things that are going on in another room the player can't see. It's kind of a throwback to the old "stuck in the dark" cartoon cliché. - The power bar charging for melee attacks is kind of a variation on the "active time battle" system introduced in _Final Fantasy IV._ The idea behind it is to make combat more strategic. Instead of being forced to take hits like in more traditional RPGs, you can dodge about while waiting for your power meter to charge up or while over-charging your attack manually. It can be tedious or boring for people who prefer to just beat the hoo-hah out of enemies, but when played correctly, it can be pretty interesting. - Alchemy is a huge part of the gameplay experience. By choosing not to use it due to "lack of resources", you kind of locked yourself out of a very handy and helpful part of the game. It's even nicer when you realize there's a multi-cast bug you can do which makes spells incredibly powerful. - The bugs with The Dog are exactly that: bugs. Trust me, it's not just you that experienced The Dog teleporting or sniffing in the wrong place. - The trading sequence was intentionally convoluted because, ya know, bartering. I imagine that it was intended to be something unique for the player to experience, and while I personally enjoyed it, I can understand how it's not for everyone. I very strongly disagree with a lot of this review. It's not just nostalgia glasses speaking, either - I played through about half of this game a couple years ago, again, and still enjoyed it. In fact, I think I enjoyed it even more with the camera fix patch I made for the thing. I'd like to see your stream of this and see exactly what got under your skin, and maybe I should stream it, myself. Between the soundtrack from Jeremy Soule of _The Elder Scrolls_ fame, to the charming characters, to the unique locations, and yes, even the gameplay, I very much enjoyed this game. It was a small part of my childhood, and a small part of my adulthood. And really, it's just a nice, unique action RPG. Also, the US commercial for this is freaking wild. Hee hee.
Thanks for your thoughtful comments here. I can agree to disagree with you since not everything's going to appeal to everyone, but I will add this: I think this game really benefits from subsequent playthroughs. Once you know what works and get the hang of a few different aspects like the alchemy, knowing where you can buy different ingredients later on etc., you can really strategize and make the most out of all the systems the game presents you with. On a first playthrough, I found it to be far too open with too little guidance, and I constantly worried about putting my time into something that would eventually become obsolete and end up backing myself into a corner. I can see the appeal if you replay it, but I found it nightmarish for a first time playthrough using only what's in the manual as a guide. I'm really glad you enjoyed it. A lot of people that have stopped in to leave some thoughts about the review do, and I'm definitely in the minority. I've engaged with lots of games over the years, including Final Fantasy games and the like (I adore RPGs...) and this was by far the most frustrating and unintuitive I've played. Different strokes, I guess! And I can't say I've seen the commercial for this game. I should probably check it out sometime!
I can definitely understand most of your complaints about Secret of Evermore. It hasn't really aged that well, especially from a gameplay perspective. Like many games of its time, it doesn't respect your time. The exploration can be frustrating due to its obscure design, and the melee combat feels kind of sluggish. The alchemy system inherently discourages exploration of its spells as a lot of ingredients are hard to come by, and the fact that low level spells suck. It seems to have some depth at first, but it's effectively reduced to a few powerful spells with easy to come by ingredients that trivializes the combat after a certain number of casts. It always was the world, atmosphere and music that made Secret of Evermore a gem. A flawed gem, but still a gem in its own right. I have heard a lot of people say that there's nothing quite like it, and it certainly has its own quirky charm. With a more fleshed out combat system and streamlined exploration; it probably could have been remembered as a great game of its time.
I've played lots of stuff from this era and this game just pushed me beyond my patience limit. I don't mind grinding when I can actually hit enemies. I don't mind magic systems when I can use them without worrying about the number of casts constantly. I agree with you about the world and the characters/story. They're pretty special, and especially among many games that are set in other worlds, this one hits nice and close to home and resonated with me.
Interesting. This was one of my favorites for the snes and I didn't have any problems with the combat. I made use of alchemy when I could, and even though the limited resources made for some sense of anxiety, it didn't really detract from the experience. Perhaps this is one of those examples that doesn't fit well with today's standards in video games
I'm already hesitant to spend consumables that I can buy with money at regular intervals in other games, so this system of "sniff it out" or "wait 3 more game areas before you can buy ingredients for your favourite spell again" was very anxiety-inducing for me. I levelled up most of my weapons and once I had a thrown weapon things were a little better combat-wise, but yeah... I wish I liked this one more.
@@asafoetidajones8181 I guess spending ingredients left and right felt reckless to me in a first playthrough. I'm glad you had a great time with this though!
it's a frustrating game to finish today, but as a bored kid in the 90s with no internet you could immerse yourself for hours on end. especially milking that market dry was a fun weekend spent. that's oldschool difficulty. some games took forever to figure out, or were feindishly tough in all the wrong ways. :D
Oh totally. I had my handful of games I was a bored kid with back then too and got to know them inside and out. I feel like this game leans more to the latter statement in your last sentence there... I love a challenge but this game felt a bit broken to me, especially with the close range hit detection being horrible.
I like this game and would like to find a copy for my collection some time. It is fun to explore and has a unique play. Combat is basically the same as Secret of Mana, which is one of the most beloved SNES rpg's out there. It was an early system to prevent button mashing trivializing combat. I almost never charge the attack, but I found after the first area that having your dog charge was more useful then not. At the end of the game, the dog is so powerful i had the boy set to charge and just played the dog. Alchemy is more about picking one or two you like and sticking with them to level them. A few are very powerful but are hard to find ingrediants. Others ingrediants are everywhere, so you level them to make powerful instead. I never had a problem with the dog locations either. Did you emulate this? Maybe the image is slightly stretched and the pixels are distorted playing on a modern flat screen. I wish this game got a remaster.
I'm glad you enjoyed your time with this game. I found the only way I was able to hit enemies for most of the game was charging and throwing the spear. And by end game, you're right: the dog's a beast! I just didn't feel very supported by him at the beginning. I think my main issue was not really knowing what to pick to work on for alchemy, and being worried about "wasting" ingredients on spells that might not be useful later. I didn't emulate it. I have the game and played it on original hardware on a CRT. I don't know why it was so hard to find the ingredients or connect with enemies, but I definitely struggled with a lot of this game.
@@hungrygoriya The game got mixed reviews when it released also, so you are just in the half that didn;t like it as much. The common sentiment was "lost potential" in the old reviews. It is one of those games with a group of players that love it and a group that wouldn't play it twice.
I love "The Secret of Evermore." It's one of my favorite games from the 1990s. It's difficult to specify exactly why, but it had that certain quality --- atmosphere.
@@hungrygoriya Thanks for the reply. Yes, I do agree that the combat could've been better. If I recall correctly, it was the hit detection that was off, as was the case with its cousin game, Secret of Mana. Nonetheless, I still enjoyed my experience playing through The Secret of Evermore, and then I played it entirely through again in the early 2000s.
Secret of Evermore has been an underrated gem. Some blame the game for Secret of Mana 2 (Seiken Densetsu 3) not releasing in the US, but today, you can play both games. Yeah, there are a few bugs in the game, but emulation today, pretty much resolves anything. The music is done by Jeremy Soule, the first game he did video game music for. In other words, the person who later made the music for amazing games like Skyrim.
It didn't click with me personally. I did play it after Secret of Mana, but I never went in expecting Secret of Evermore to be Secret of Mana. I just didn't enjoy a lot of what it put out there. I honestly think Evermore would benefit from a replay down the line now that I know where to find certain spells and what to expect from alchemy, but I'm just not interested in playing it again.
@@hungrygoriya One thing nice with many of the older SNES games (especially if going through emulators) is that some individuals have hacked and balanced the game. I think with Evermore, there have been those that have tweaked/improved the AI, fixed various bugs, introduced two-player mode, and even made it easier to level up certain spells.
I was present for virtually all your time livestreaming this game, and while I acknowledge I wasn't following gameplay closely, I fully recall the vibe of those streams. When people would ask how you were enjoying the game, your words said you were still having fun playing through it, even during the latter streams, but the tone of your voice said otherwise. It felt to me as if you were giving the game every chance to win you over, even deep into the adventure, but it never quite managed to do so. I am glad to see you pour your heart out here after some reflection, and give us your true and full opinion, even if it disagrees with some other people's equally valid experiences with this game. I'd much rather see you wearing your heart on your sleeve than diluting your views so as not to upset anyone. I've always taken your reviews to be summaries of your personal experiences with each game, rather than trying to objectively rank and evaluate them in a cold, sterile way. Whatever criticisms some dedicated fans of this game may have here about your playthrough and this review, I can vouch that you gave this game every opportunity to endear itself to you. Secret of Evermore just wasn't for you, as it turned out, and you've clearly explained the reasons for that.
I think you've really hit the nail on the head here, my friend. I stuck it out for the folks in the stream chat that love this game and wanted to see it through, but also to give the game a chance to get better or for something to click. It just never did. I'm sad because I really like to come away from a game feeling good about it, knowing that I gave it my best first time experience but... yeah. It just wasn't for me.
SO MANY MAZES in this game, and none of them are fun. They all felt like work. I absolutely love this review. You're spot on about the combat and how infuriatingly often you just miss your target. I had some particular gripes about how the character grips the spear at the blade, using it more like a dagger at very close range. Furthermore, leveling weapons seemed meaningless since as soon as your weapon becomes a decent level, you get a new weapon, and those weapon levels don't carry over to other similar weapons. Getting to max level with the first sword doesn't give you any weapon levels for the later swords you get? Plus, I hated the main character so much. In summation, all this game has is its quirky writing and whimsical sense of humor, which... wasn't really my style anyway. Was not thrilled with this game. I played it in tandem with a fellow streamer named MegaHarv (we did a Tag Team Live Stream where we essentially handed the controller off every hour) and we had fun with it despite how bad this game was.
I hear ya: weapons did feel obsolete pretty soon after getting them (I think I remember getting two new ones back to back but ended up using them both anyway)... I stuck mainly with the spear since I could throw it and all future iterations I got were my go-to. Functionally, that was what suited my play style best! I'm glad I at least liked the story bits and the characters. And that's a cool idea about the tag-team stream. I did that with a friend a few times for some password-based games, and we would stream it on different nights on our respective channels.
@@KarmaJolt It's one of the rare stream vods I have up. The other player is TheRenesance, who I met online through his mutual love of Faxanadu. We also did this with The Guardian Legend a few years later, but I don't have a video for that playthrough. ruclips.net/video/Wxu-Uf_p-Lc/видео.html
I know the game can have some pretty hefty flaws, but it being your worst time on the SNES? That seems pretty harsh. Personally I always absolutely adored the athmosphere in this game, the music and ambient sounds were a huge part of it and it fascinated me how the SNES was able to make it sound so "realistic." And being someone that played a whole lot of SoM, I was used to the hitboxes of that combat system. Alchemy and charged attacks are key to getting quick kills (especially setting it for the dog attacks). Your issues with the currency are perfectly valid, tho. It sucks that they made this interesting magic system and made it so cumbersome to use, it needs loads of grinding but - can reward you with spells that can be extremely effective against certain enemy types. The market is absolutely infamous for a reason, yes. But it also rewards your tenacity with permanent passive massive buffs. I know you usually play these game as raw as possible, but looking up a guide for that one is totally okay. Anyway, my hope of this game getting a remake/remaster someday that fixes the most obvious stuff prevails.
I wouldn't have put it in the thumbnail if I didn't mean it. I had such a hard time with this one for all the reasons I mentioned, and I was itching to get through the back end of the game after the market because I was pretty frustrated with it. I think the alchemy system is awesome, but I really wish that I hadn't needed to feel so worried about spending out my consumables with no way of knowing when I could buy more. I do think this game has some great aspects, but fundamentally it felt a little broken to me. And you're absolutely right: a guide here would've eased my experience with it, but that's not how I roll with a first-time playthrough. There isn't enough replay value here for me to try it again, unfortunately. I may watch someone else play it through sometime just to see how it's done "right", but this was more than enough for me!
Arcana I remember being pretty tough, it made me feel like I was working a job. I have never felt such terror leaving one of the strip mall like towns.
@@hungrygoriya 🤣🤣 I love Wizardry, I wanted to love Arcana. Arcana has made me more afraid trees and rocks than anyother RPG. The battle RNG is nuts, healing spells cost too much mana. You cannot go back in the game and grind. If one character dies, it is just game over. Few save points. Dependence on "cards" to do anything useful. I still rented it a 2nd 3 days to beat it 🤣
On the fly strategy, the bazaar, mazes, the absolute bliss that is the soundtrack and the stunner graphics. It seems like the features that make this game a flawed masterpiece to so many people, myself included, just hit you badly. New coaster? Damn. Sell it to someone who will cherish this rare gem of an snes classic.
Saying they hit me badly pretty much sums it up. Like a good knock to the side of the head. And I was kidding about it becoming a coaster. It'll just hang out in its box in case I decide to give it another try again way down the line.
I understand that. Not every game is for everyone. Your points are valid, I just can't relate at all. Your knock upside the noggin was my favorite snes title. Just glad it's not a coaster, thank you Goriya
Ohhhhh this game, I remember renting it as a kid, getting to the first boss...and getting stunlocked against the back wall of the boss's arena as he constantly spammed some kind of knockback ability that did about 1-2 damage, and I got to watch my entire health bar fade away bit by bit without ever getting to control my character. And then trying it again in my 20s in college and getting to the magic tutorial, going "I need items for magic?" and tossing it in the trash immediately. Seems I dodged two bullets! Props to my dad for actually beating it the whole way through, it was at least mildly fun to watch...but I definitely remember him getting angry more than once along the way. I just liked the silly dog forms...and that's about all I remember of the game past my experiences.
Not every game is for everyone, it is fine if you didn't like this one. You definitely hamstrung yourself by not engaging with the alchemy though. When I played it many years back, the alchemy system was what kept me engaged. Hunting ingredients and leveling all of my spells as high as I could made combat easy and exploring worthwhile.
I think if I hadn't had so much anxiety about running out of stuff and not having a way to find more in early game, I would've used it a lot more. The game gave me no confidence in that, unfortunately. For the heal spell, I walked around with 16 casts of it for at least two areas of the game without finding any more ingredients or having an opportunity to buy them. I just worked on the weapons instead, and combat turned out to be pretty unfun until I got my hands on the thrown spear.
@@hungrygoriya The thing is, alchemy reagents in the wild respawn and shops always sell reagents. Maybe not the reagents you want, but they'll always give you something that is adjascently useful. You don't actually ever run out, and that was an assumption you made going into it that put you off engaging with a major feature of the game. It's like saying you hate playing chess because you always lose, but you refuse to move any pieces besides pawns because you were anxious you'd put them somewhere you couldn't protect. You might have hated the game, but you didn't really play it.
@@Zetimenvec Are you sure all ingredients respawn? I specifically remember going back to see if they did and my dog did not sniff in most spots again. And I'll say this again here: if the game intended for the alchemy system to be such a prominent and important feature, they should've put more emphasis on it. Why present the whole game as a wide open experience that you can play in multiple ways if the magic was really what they felt was necessary to have a good experience? I don't know... other games at least strike a balance of magic and physical combat and don't force you into one or the other. And they're usually both at least effective, and usually compliment and enhance different legs of the game. We can agree to disagree here, but I definitely played this game the way I thought made the most sense for my play style and got punished for not buying into a system I didn't want to use.
They DID put a lot of emphasis on it, that's why alchemy was the solution to almost every single puzzle in the game. It's why more then half of the hidden items and rewards were alchemy. It's why it was the weakness of every boss and how you killed all the flying monsters of every time period. Yes, you only had 16 charges of the heal spell, the one you'd been using since the start of the game. There were by then three heal spells that you were meant to be swapping between based on what drops were in the region. So you didn't have enough to cast cure. You probably had piles of the items needed for regen and heal. Or maybe you were in the one place where life drain was the spell to use.
@@ICountFrom0 I did eventually use the stronger healing alchemy at the end game, as well as a few buffs, only when I finally had money and finally had access to the reagent shops to go back and buy what I needed. At that point, I'd already sunk time into levelling weapons and just threw the spear until the end of the game. I take your point though, there is an emphasis on it. But in addition to finding new alchemy and ingredients for most secrets, you also find weapons, you can also level those weapons, and the alchemy required for puzzles doesn't work outside of those contexts (like the reveal spell). I don't disagree that I could've used alchemy a lot more, but for me in a first playthrough here, it wasn't the clearest path forward. Hindsight on a second and any subsequent playthrough is crystal clear.
This is one of my favorite experiences on the SNES, in spite of itself. The soundtrack is one of the best imo, by Jeremy Soule. I found the characters, dialogue, and story are all unique, quotable and engaging. That said, they are the reasons I replay the game. It's a headache to play for all the reasons you stated. Long mazes, annoying combat, lock outs. However there are things to know that make replaying the game much easier at points. Like, the whirlpool in the desert outside the gates of the trading bazaar. Wait until the boy gets dizzy and sucked beneath the sand. You'll find some pots with 99 rice and 99 spice, making your trading a lot easier. The only spells you really need are the functional ones like Revealer(and you'll only need about 5 each tops), the Heal spell, and a combat spell. Maybe Revive Dog spell. There are no elemental weakness(I think) so just pick one you like and use that. I use Hard Ball until I get Crush because it's a low casting cost. If you know this, you won't waste money on ingredients for spells you won't use and it will solve your money exchange issue. Try and remember not to get locked out in Gothica. Follow the paths with the owls in the branches in that one Gothica Forest. Or just play the soundtrack
I think I'll pick your last option there for the future, but all these tips are helpful! When I play through games and review them, it's usually from my first-time experience with it. I don't use guides and just use whatever came with the game to try to get through it, but these are all great tips for subsequent playthroughs. I'm sure there are lots of things that make this game easier once you know they're there.
I think your experience is quite relatable if that was your approach. My first play was a rental and there’s so much ambient music I didn’t know how good the soundtrack was. When the SNES was dying out I picked up a copy cheap so I replayed at leisure and it grew on me years later. And I don’t think it helps when you are likely comparing it to Secret of Mana and it’s vastly superior combat.
@@discobunny4eva302 I went out of my way here not to compare directly to Mana, except to say that at least there you could replenish MP to make levelling up magic easier. I don't think it's fair to say that SoE's not SoM so it's no good. I'm glad you got a cheap copy! I think I got mine a few years ago for about $50 complete? The box isn't in good shape, unfortunately :(
@@hungrygoriya Yeah they were just giving them away along with Populous. I didn't mean to imply that you made the comparison to SoM or that your video gave the impression because that was not my takeaway, but as a player I know I did and wouldn't be surprised if the game received that judgment due to a convenient comparison. But charging, swinging, and missing a spear shot so often is 😓 A far cry from the rush of ganging up on a Mushboom or Ice Thug with a satisfying whack.
@@discobunny4eva759 No satisfying whacks in this game! Being able to quick swap weapons would've probably pushed me to use different ones more often and then throw with the spear. I hated going into the menus to switch. And all good! I didn't feel that you were being accusatory, but I have seen a lot of people out there say that SoE is not SoM, so it's no good. I don't think it's fair to compare the two directly, even if they're so alike! There are better ways to talk about games than always comparing them to each other!
People complain about day 1 patches on modern games, but forget that many cartridge and early CD/DVD media had plenty of bugs. That was actually a benefit of getting a translation of a jrpg a year or 2 later. All those bugs in the original were fixed for the localized versions. As for this game, I only ever played this as a weekend rental. For whatever reason, the game never resonated with me enough to ever come back to it.
Yeah, no bug fixes here! I couldn't believe how many troubles I ran into! After my first night with it, something felt off but I saw it through anyway. I'm not one to quit a game that might get better as it goes on.
My main problems with the game: - Maze-like levels over and over again - Ingredients for spells unevenly distributed (like Limestone only purchasable at one trader) - Recycling of many game elements (sewers etc.)
It's fun to hear you, a generally positive and open-minded game reviewer, rag on this game so hard. I'm sure if I, like so many others in the comments, absolutely loved this game, I would be a little off-put by that fact -- but fortunately, I 100% agree with you. Secret of Evermore was a game I was SO looking forward to as a kid, since I enjoyed Secret of Mana a lot, but... man, even back then, as someone who legitimately enjoyed games like Deadly Towers and Super Pitfall on NES (meaning I could demonstrably put up with just about anything)... this game was just mind-numbing. I never finished it, and I think it was that very market where I finally threw in the towel and decided the game was just NOT WORTH CONTINUING. I had all the same complaints you did, but I don't even think fixing one or two of them would've saved it for me. The map design and pacing were the worst offenders, though, by far, as there was just NO FUN to be had from exploration, and it took bloody AGES to get through ANYTHING. The reagent system was cool in concept (I also likened it to Ultima IV at the time, having fallen in love with that game on my NES not long before), but I got SO TIRED of my dog sniffing something new like, every 3 steps I took, and then me having to fumble about trying to pick it up (or ignore it, which I could never bring myself to do) -- that just piled up with the finicky combat and massive, repetitive stage designs to make the whole game the single biggest slog in all of gaming. With no catchy tunes to at least keep my ears happy while I was slowly wending my way through it, no less! No hate to those who enjoyed Secret of Evermore, as I have a number of friends who did as well... but I've never been able to figure out HOW they enjoyed it, and that remains true to this day. Seeing this video was thus very cathartic for me. ;)
It's heartening to know that others feel the same way as me. Thanks for your comment here! I'm sorry it disappointed you too. I was hoping for so much more from Secret of Evemore :(
It's a game of its time, designed for kids. There wasn't an abundance of media like today so time wasters were kinda welcome since you probably only had that one game for month and as a kid you also have more time and patience figuring stuff out. I have to agree with the mazes though, never was a fan of them, they were the bad kind of time wasters even back then. I did really like the market place as a kid though, it was a fun puzzle and I wrote everything down on paper and tried to come up with the best way to get the most stuff. I'm pretty sure I didn't even get half the stuff you can get there, but still felt clever for the stuff that I DID get. You have to remember that the internet just got started at the time and that people played games on their own without looking everything up on a wiki for the 100% optimal play, so you could still feel pretty good about yourself even if you actually "played terrible". Without nostalgia and in this time I have to agree with a lot of things you said, though I still find the verdict overly harsh. There are lots of things in the game that are awesome and very unique, like the dog that changes the appearance appropriately to every new era, or that you have an AI companion at all that you can switch to and that can sniff out treasures. Years later Fable 2 made that the unique selling point and wrongly called it a worlds first. There are so many themes in the game that look and feel entirely different, many with great music and/or SFX. The alchemy system was a fresh take on magic that worked pretty good IMO, the only problem it has it that it is a bit too tedious and difficult to find ingredients for the spells, it really should have been the focus of the game and the other weapons should just have been a fallback in case you run out of spells. The writing, the humor, the charm, ... etc. So too harsh of a verdict for a review IMO, but understandable from the personal bad experience you had with the game.
I grew up with NES and Genesis so yes, I remember the times where you only had a few games and played them to death. It's only within the last 10 years or so that I've been exploring new titles from this generation since I missed out on the SNES entirely. There are lots of great thing about this game that I tried to highlight, much of what you mention here: the atmosphere, the music, the story, the little visual details like the dog changing etc. but I found too many of the core mechanics to be frustrating. Not being able to hit enemies with weapons and a tedious magic system was too much for me to enjoy this. I'm glad you can understand that impression from me as a first time player through this game.
My favorite part about this game is how I don't know anyone personally that dislikes it and yet all these Internet retro gaming folks keep putting out videos to explain why we shouldn't like it lol
Sounds like this beach just sucked at the game. Secret of evermore had maybe 7 play through when I was a kid. I played through as an adult a few years back and it held up.
Hands down one of my favorite games for the SNES. Actually having to use the alchemy system to level it up was super rewarding and I never felt like I was too poor or too ingredient starved. Granted I do enjoy some casual grinding in my games. Sad to see someone not connecting with what I feel is a classic overlooked game. I beat this game once every couple years. :/
I'm very stingy with consumables, so it's probably a me problem more than anything else. I had a hard time parting ways with my ingredients because I just didn't know when I'd find more of them. I think I went through the first few areas of the game clinging to the stuff to cast heal spells because I was scared to run out of the healing items I bought and not have a backup in some of the harder enemy and boss fights. It just set me up to lack confidence in the system going forward. I'm really glad you like it! There are lots of people here who adore it, and my first-time experience won't line up with everyone else's. I really wanted to like this more and I'm very sad that I couldn't connect with it.
I'm in the middle of replaying it, and I can say with complete certainty, you played the game *wrong* . First off, short, fast attacks is not how you want combat to work. There's actually more overall down-time when you do that, and you will deal less damage for two 100% charged attacks, compared to one level 2 charge. You can also release a partial charge at any time, so there's no downtime from landing a hit between 100% and 150% charge. You cite Secret of Mana as a positive example of the same mechanics done right, but they are worse off in just about every aspect. SOM doesn't let you change directions while running, and you slow to a *crawl* when you walk around with a pre-charged meter. SoE lets you run around at full speed while charged. In fact, you can infinitely run if you fully charge your meter to 300% before holding the A button down. I saw your heal spell in the Diamond Eyes statute fight, and that was clearly your problem there for why the game was such a drag. If you had been using your heal spell at all up until that point, you probably would have been restored to full HP with that one cast. 40HP is what you get from it when it's level 0-1. Because of the problems you were having with combat, you weren't making any money, and so you had nothing to buy your alchemy ingredients with. I ALWAYS buy 99 of every ingredient that a merchant sells, and have plenty of cash left over for armor. Those healing items you kept blowing your cash on almost never get used if you're doing things right. SoM required you to run back to inns to restore your mana, so it was hardly a positive example by comparison. Being able to convert your cash to "MP" in this game was a good design choice, but you decided that you didn't want to earn money while playing. You may have had more cash if you set your dog to be more aggressive, and let him get the kills until his attack is level 2 or 3. Then you set his charge level to 2 (3 for bosses) and you'll never need to do much more than dodge or heal. You should always be good to offer supporting fire with a thrown spear if you can manage it. Now the actual bad: Bugmuck SUUUUUCKS. I don't disagree for a second there. It's a very rough way to get you into the game, but after you get over that hump, the game gets a LOT easier. Yeah, playing it again, I see a lot of bugs, and over the years, I've seen most of the ones you pointed out, and probably more. Hell, there's a main quest area that you can simply skip because the game forgets to check for completion on it. Hit boxes on flying enemies is always bad. The bees in SoM are awful too. You should use alchemy on them. A medium powered flare spell on the flying skulls was usually enough to deal like 250 damage to all on the screen and delete them from your life. Trying anything melee other than a thrown spear is going to get you the results you showed off. So yeah. There's few games on the SNES I'd rather play MORE than Secret of Evermore!
I don't think I ever used short attacks less than 100%. I didn't charge up my weapons beyond level 1 usually, but I'd wait for them to be charged 100% before attacking. Otherwise, what's the point? I don't think I actually mentioned SoM's fighting being any better. I said the magic system afforded you the convenience of being able to replenish MP for magic, but SoM's fighting's just as bad as it is here. I didn't like it any better when I played that game. I hear you: I really struggled with the combat here so I didn't have any money to buy much at all except the equipment. I don't know what it was about the hit detection, but things did at least improve when I got my hands on the thrown spear. That was quite a ways into the game though, and by then, I'd gotten by with physical attacks and decided to stick with those instead of starting to level up the alchemy at that point. I found money really hard to come by in the early game, but that might've also just been a me problem. I'm not sure why I struggled with the physical stuff so much. I played on a CRT with no input lag. Bugmuck was no fun. The forest also had me turned around for a long time, though someone told me there are some great visual tells for whether or not you're on the right track. Lots of this game is probably improved on a subsequent playthrough, but I just didn't enjoy myself enough to give it a second play. It was frustrating enough to land at the bottom of my list, at least for now. I'm sure I'll run into worse things as I go, but it's down there with Breath of Fire for the time being. I'll be sure to update everyone here if I ever do come around and play it again with the knowledge I have from fumbling through the first time.
@@hungrygoriya "I don't think I ever used short attacks less than 100%. I didn't charge up my weapons beyond level 1 usually, but I'd wait for them to be charged 100% before attacking. Otherwise, what's the point?" Yeah, that's the crux of my whole post, because this is how you played it wrong. You're supposed to charge to 200% and 300% when the option is available to you. So you didn't kill enemies, you didn't get money, and you didn't get to buy "MP" for your magical powers. Everything falls apart if you can't kill things! So I've been playing this game periodically since it came out, so I am definitely biased towards it. This current playthough I decided to challenge myself, and only use the alchemy ingredients I find, rather than ever buying anything from a vendor. I *have* to use those healing items I said I never used (let me tell you, the rat king was an awful boss without alchemy!). Despite that limitation, I'm still having fun because weapons charged up that far deal enough damage fast enough to carry me through the game with little resistance. I just have to grind a bit, but I can do that lazily by letting the AI control the kid in an enemy-dense area. And yeah, forest maze sucks too, but there's nothing there to kill you.
@@hungrygoriya Oh, and I wanted to add that when I say "You're playing it wrong!" I don't mean that with any sort of combative tone. Reading it in text may add that implication. I've played many games wrong over my life. One great example was the original Deus Ex. Took me 10 years of periodically trying it when people would remind me it was supposed to be a good game. Could never get into it, until one day I tried it again and it just _clicked_ . It was a fantastic game, but I had been playing it wrong the whole time because my expectations were very different. Evermore may not be the game for you, but if you ever did try it again, I strongly suggest you put a lot more effort into charged attacks, because the entire gameplay is based around dealing those out.
@@signa8 It did come off a little brash, but I'm not hurt by it. I know a lot of folks really love this game, so it's hard to parse out context from text, as you've said. We're good though! And if I ever do get around to it again, I will definitely approach it differently. I've also heard great things about Deux Ex... you have me worried now, haha
@@hungrygoriya Here's the pitfalls I fell into with Deus Ex if you ever get around to playing it: Min/max HARD. I diversified my skills, and that was a mistake, because they aren't useful at early levels. Also, I'm a HUGE fan of the Thief games, and I expected the stealth to act a bit like a sci-fi version of Thief. It's not at all like Thief's stealth, and it's got a very unique flavor of dumb AI for you to work your way around and figure out what gets you busted or ignored. Once I managed my expectations on those aspects, and worked around them, the game blew me away, even a decade after its release.
@@crystalwater505 I try to keep the livestreams live and this channel separate for the most part. Since I don't have chat up on screen when I stream (or anything really other than the game and my voice) there's not a lot of context when I'm speaking to people, and I don't think it makes for good viewing. I have them locally on my computer though.
@@hungrygoriya Ah I see. Do you think livestreams are only really valuable when it's live since people are communicating with you at that time rather than if it's being seen as a vod on a later date?
@@crystalwater505 Not in general, but in my case yes. If it was just me playing without speaking to a chat it might be better, but as-is, I don't think it's very entertaining.
I tried hard to enjoy this one, but after slogging through the muck for about 30 hours, I simply moved on. The game did have some good things working in its favor. However, the alchemy system left me frustrated and irate. I just felt like I shouldn’t have to try that hard to squeeze a little enjoyment from a game. My favorite part of the game was when I explored one of the towns and actually ran across Cecil and Rosa from Final Fantasy IV. :) Another thorough and detailed review. I thought to myself a couple of days ago that I had not seen any new videos from Hungry Goriya lately. It’s refreshing to get the notification!
Secret of Evermore is my all-time favorite SNES title, but it's not perfect and it IS an acquired taste: The Good: 1. The combat system is rewarding for people who, like me, like to fight smarter as opposed to harder.(Part of the reason I love Soulsborne games so much.) 2. The Alchemy system was really fun to experiment with and the fact that you needed to be sparing with them lead to a more tactical approach to using magic. 3. The sound and visual design of this game is stellar(the OST was composed by the mighty Geoff Follin) and the Dark ambience mixed with that campy mid-nineties humor makes this game really stand out amidst it's contemporaries. The Bad: 1. It's level design leaves so much to be desired. the dungeons suffer from some serious Phantasy Star 2 syndrome. 2. As you stated, the hit detection is way off and it's buggier than an aphid ranch. 3. The currency system was cumbersome, especially when you'd find a recipe in later worlds like Gothica nad Omnitropia that required ingredients like Wax and Clay and whoops, back I go to Nobilia and Prehistoria to run some more errands. The Ugly: AAAAARRRRGH! The market sequence gives me som 'nam style flashbacks everytime this game enters my conciousness. You know how when you think back on a game that you grew up with/haven't played in a while, your first thought is usually along the lines of "Oh yeah, I remember that game; I should play it again." but you can bet dollars to donuts that the immediate follow-up to that thought is always"Oh, I'm going to have to deal with THAT section again..."? Yeah, That's what this is like. Thank god it's mostly optional but still, there is a reason why Nobilia is the worst part of the game. EDIT: Me spel gud.
Idk, I never had issues with money or alch items for the super basic/hyper abusive spells. Heal and Crush was all I needed as Crush spamming anything that moved (including bosses) = ggez if I didn't want to bother with a fight at all. Heck, where ya get the spell and buy the items to use it are close to an area with mobs that pay you well for spamming them with it. After level 5 crush, it pays for its self to be used as its 1 shoting all the mobs right by the alch item sales dood.
@@Xanthro2 True, you don't NEED most alchemy spells in the game, but I love experimenting with new items, equipment and spells when I get them in games. Different strokes, I guess.
@@RedAsTheFire indeed :D I did have an unfair advantage with my uncle teaching me abit about the game my first time threw though. "Use just these 2 spells, and you will never have issues ever". He also did the market place for me. When I played the game later, I never bothered with the market as Crush obliterates everything.
I guess for me, the waiting in combat just felt too slow. I think I said exactly your sentiments here: if you enjoy the tactical side of strategizing in combat like this, then it's great. I just felt I couldn't hit stuff reliably, and that really detracted from the experience for me personally. And I wish I'd been able to get into the alchemy more. I'm usually really stingy with consumables to begin with, and I think I walked around with 16 ash for the beginning stretch of the game, scared to cast out my heals in case I needed them in a battle if I ran out of the purchasable health refills. It was a catch-22. I was scared to run out by levelling, but also stressed about needing them! That's very much a me problem, but when things finally did become widely available, I was already mostly over the alchemy. When I found Super Heal in late game, I spammed the heck out of that! I'm glad that you're a fan of this game. I really wanted to like this one since I came away from Secret of Mana feeling a little underwhelmed. But alas :(
You play way more retro stuff than I do. I think you appreciate them more than I do(although I do enjoy some outside of my own nostalgia. Love to find hidden gems). However I think a lot of old games suffer from limitations of not only technology but also just limitations of game design. The industry is so big now. So many designers grew up with modern gaming. People have a better idea now on what works and what doesnt. I think back in the 90s, we were able to put up with certain annoying and grueling things that we don't have the tolerance for now. That is, unless the game has nostalgia armor.
I don't use the word hate lightly. I've played a lot of games, and I waited the entire journey through this one for it to start feeling fun for me. It brought me nothing but frustration outside of the characters and story elements. I'm glad that so many people like it, yourself included. I wish I could be part of your club!
Interesting review. I hope we get some reviews on the other "Secret of" games, and the other popular RPGs for SNES. I got the version with a strategy guide as a kid, which made the maze-sections much much more tolerable and allowed me to lookup and plan ahead in the bartering sections. At this point, I also spend a couple dozen hours with Secret of Mana, so I was aware/tolerant of many of the inherited flaws that came with the combat-mechanics. This led me to have a much better time with the game, so much that it was in my top 3 favourite SNES Games for a long time. But I still remember how frustratingly imprecise the ingredient-location for the dog-discoveries were, and how infuriating it was that he sometimes picked up phantom ingredients and wasted time sniffing them out. My biggest disappointment though as a kid, was the fact that there was no Secret of Mana-style of multi-player. Something I enjoyed very much in Secret of Mana.
I'm sure I'll get around to talking on the other games sometime. At this point I've only played Secret of Mana, and I talked a bit about why I didn't love it in another video on the channel (Popular SNES Games I won't Play Again). It's so interesting that yourself and so many others absolutely adored this game, save for a few quirks. I'm usually really forgiving and patient with games and this one just pushed all my buttons. I wish I'd had a better time with it!
@@hungrygoriya I just recently stumbled across your channel, so I still need to work trough your back catalogue. But I guess it make sense, if you had issues with the Secret of Mana - mechanics. SoE didn't really improve on any of them. So what were just quirks for us, probably just amplified the negative aspects for you. I'm sure nostalgia also plays a strong role in this, at least for me. Secret of Mana 2, did improve on the mechanics, but has other issues on it's own. So I'm interested in your thoughts on it. I'm also sure, others already mentioned or recommended Terranigma to you. It might be right up your alley, although it might be a "challenge" to get the PAL version up and running.
@@Deckaio Terranigma is a game I just recently enjoyed for the first time and I loved it. I can't wait to sit down and write out some thoughts about it soon! Secret of Mana 2 has long been on my list of games to try. It's definitely in the mix but I'm not sure when I'll get around to it.
4:47-5:06 At least in some RPGs and JRPGs, like Earthbound, glitches and graphical limitations can work to the player's advantage: like, how enemies don't respawn or show up in smaller quantities on the screen when leaving and re-entering specific areas. You should definitely review Earthbound as a counter to Secret of Evermore, because it practically fixes a lot of the problems you mention in this video... except for the short inventory for items, weapons, and armor.
Yeah the glitches were a bit ridiculous here! I'm sure there were a lot more to find too, but thankfully I only ran into a few that stopped me in my tracks. Luckily no hard lock-ups or save file corruptions.
this game is filled with glitches that benefit the player.... you can cast a spell 8 times at once, and theres a glitch where you can overflow your stats so you always do 999 damage at 0% charge lol
@@hungrygoriya yea the game is much funner when youre able to break it. to do the 8 at once glitch you play as the dog then navigate to the boys menu to cast and if you bring up the menu before it goes off you can cast again. if you do it quick enough you can cast upto 8. If you wanna see the other glitch I mentioned I recommend watching SaturnTAS 100% tas run of the game. he also has a vid specifically for the glitch also.
I'm usually in the minority for loving this game. The alchemy system had so much more potential and I wish they would have expanded on it for other games. Also with a little grinding its absolutely busted, I remember fireball from the 2nd area carrying me through the rest of the game. I liked the market section too, it was something unique that i think other games could have tried.
It makes me happy that yourself and so many others here had a good time with this game. I wanted to like this game so much but I gave it my best try and it just never started to feel fun for me. Some of the basics were just too frustrating to get past.
As a kid during the puppet boss fight I was spamming alchemy attacks as quick as I could and the color pallet messed up and the save game screen opened up mid battle. I saved the game and it hard reset right then and after it restarted and played the intro I don't think it ever got to the load game screen. I think I broke the cart, it was a rental so I returned it and never went back to that place for a really long time.
You know what, that happened to me while emulating it. It froze and crashed after saving in that fight, luckily since it was emulated it worked after restarting the emulator.
Reading the comments under this and under SNESDrunk’s review(s) of Evermore (which had similar complaints to yours) is pretty interesting because both comment sections are filled with people who really loved the game, which is a dynamic I don’t see often.
One of my favorite games of all time. And with every other rpg that existed at the time, the market was the most interesting grind i had seen. This game was so atmospheric for me when i was a kid that it left a huge impact on my imagination.
The hate this game gets... lol. I loved it and had it, Played it so many times.. My favorite part was figuring out the Bazaar part as a youngster, It was the hardest thing I had ever done at the time and im pretty sure i took a spin around the block on my bike in some kinda triumph ride!
That one takes some math, which especially as a kid I hated! There are tricks that make that easier. I love that there are things there that seem like a good deal that end up really hurting you in the long run.
Fun story: I actually BOUGHT the amulet of anhillation from the merchant for 10000 jewels to cross the desert because I thought it was an obligatory event to acquire it. Never crossed my mind I could just travel the desert on foot, I just assumed it was one of those events the game gives you zero chance of success if you tried, like an endless maze in a loop, never leading to an end. Later I learned not only crossing on foot was possible but the item's cost was really cheap in the other side of the desert, in the city. Lessons taken: 1. A game can troll you; 2. Assuming the intent of the game without testing may lead to comically incorrect conclusions. 3. Grinding (for anything -- money in this case) is not worth it: thinking outside the box is rewarding. I was 12 when I played this game for the first time. Not the SOM sequel I was expecting, but liked it more than I disliked. Loved both market errands (did notes in a separate piece of paper too!), the comedy in the dialogues and the very pretty aesthetics. Disliked A LOT the fact the formulas you find earlier in the game become completely obsolete in the end game and are too costly to level up naturally, just not worthy to use them at all (complete opposite of the way I liked to play SOM). Not a fan of the pattern of movement of some enemies too. Jeremy Soule's music, while enticing (City of Ivory, Crustacia, the roman ruin's theme, both boss battles themes -- my favorite themes today), my teenage self found them unusually eerie and quite unsettling, hahaha.
It sounds like your experiences with Secret of Mana were memorable at the very least! I definitely looked at that 10K cost for an amulet and started running across the desert and was so excited when I made it somewhere. So many places leave you to die in deserts. Terranigma, King's Quest V... I was expecting more of the same, but nope!
Many valid points made here. I love SoE, but I first played it when I was 14 years old and had a lot of free time - so long boss battles were extra tense and all the more rewarding. I got good with the enemy hit boxes, but I never got great at picking up hidden ingredients. That said, the game is very rewarding if you grind a bit at several key points, which, again, is game design that worked for mid-90s sensibilities but does not work well as a first experience today.
Oh man I'd love to see an updated version of secret of evermore, it was one of my favorites. I had fallen deeply in love with RPGs and these games made it action rpg secret of mana, evermore, illusion of gaia, super Mario rpg. I've never found a genre that resonates more with me and my style!
RPGs are pretty great, and I'm especially keen on the action RPGs. I got into them a lot later in life if you don't count Faxanadu when I was a kid, but my first turn-based RPG experience happened as a teenager. I fell in love and started working backwards immediately into other series and I'm pretty hooked now too!
If you go from spot to spot without gathering you get wrecked. I always found the grind to be much more acceptable to the SOM grind. Talk about annoying, let's talk about saving all the way up to a level 8 charge only to miss. I like the somewhat limited resources here. I had issues similar to her when I played it the first time as a kid. Once you analyze stuff and figure the patterns it gets much more enjoyable. BTW, to not have a problem with punch out's difficulty and say this is too hard is laughable.
I don't think that's the comparison I made though. I said I enjoyed the battle finesse required in MTPO and Zelda 2, where you learn something from each battle. MTPO's one of the hardest games I've ever finished without question. The difficulty is not comparable at all. Secret of Evermore was just a slog for me.
I have alot of nostalgia for SOE but you're spot on. About everything. I was actually having the itch to replay it again the other day but maybe i'll wait a bit lol
I hope you'll take it out for a spin after my words fade! I'm sure subsequent playthroughs where you know what you're doing/where to go are much better. You can see the whole thing and know your strategies and what to focus on. This was my first-time experience with the game with only the manual for help, so it was pretty bumpy.
14:30 "How could you NOT have brought up the Market Place!?! The Video is almost over!" 14:45 You bring up the Market, and my PTSD kicks in from the mere sight of the place.
@hungrygoriya Yeah, the tediousness as a kid, all the math, the lack of... anything to keep me engaged! mix in the Alchemy system, now is my chance to stock up on some stuff..... Add in how we both are never sure if we "need" an item later or not...... i drew a map of the market as a kid. I used to have a big blank paper drawing book. I used it for all my game maps, and codes, throughout my gaming. I mostly comit things to memory but say, Simons Quest it was helpful. It wasn't until a few years ago at a friends, we decided to go through the game Together. I only then learned towns people lie. i thought it was just puzzles i never solved, or whatever. So i had so many notes and brainstormed ideas on things like, "where to meet this soman at midnight" or whatever time she spoke of. Thought a monster ambush was her! But nope, just a monster at that spot. Then the confusing dreams mixed with real memories of growing up. Really wish i still had that book. The Nostalgia it would hold for me... That Market Place... whenever i replay the game, i use cheats to bypass that part / speed it up. (not doing it again!)
I never knew about the jail cell softlock. However, there is ANOTHER soft lock in the Egyptian Pyramid level... There are floating stones that permanently disappear after you walk on them. There is a path that you can take that will trap you without escape. Worse, there is a save point available while being softlocked, and you guessed it, I had saved my game after the softlock. ... The gamer rage in 12 year old me was very real that day.
I am actually playing it for the first time, and playing it slowly and getting immersed in it is very rewarding. I mean, grinding is fun and the atmosphere is very unique. Trying to rush it feels lile the "mistake". I just feel like this is the perfect game to wind down and mindlesly grind to get ready for the next boss or set of hard enemies.
Bingo, you have to take your time. Gathering and attacking to level are key. Upgrading the heal spell and a few attack ones is key. They don't all have to be strong. You do have to pay attention to what resources are in that area. Keeping track of who has the cheapest items helps out a lot too. Paying for convenience in this game will hurt you a lot.
Yeah that might be the key to why some of us have vastly different experiences, I enjoy grinding in this game and the "work" and "payoff" from coming out stronger afterwards... It definitely rewards a more relaxed and patient playthrough where you don't mind trying to spend extra time leveling up or grinding for cash
@@xDARKSHADEx I totally feel this in other games, but I didn't feel it here at all. I think trying to grind up and getting hit a lot/not hitting enemies with weapons made grinding excruciating for me. I'm glad yourself and so many others clicked with this game. I really wanted to like this one!
SoE is one of my favorites as a kid, both for the setting and being an SoM alike with a more grounded(ish) take. It is however, basically the poster child for Needs A Remake™ due to conventions and attempts of it's time being most of what you hate in it, and even I now as an adult have some reservations with. Also, first game by Jeremy Soule as composer, so that's a nice piece of trivia.
I'd love to see a remake of this one. I did really love the setting/characters and writing at least. I've played lots of action RPGs, and none of their controls frustrated me as much as this one did. I'd be curious to try this one again someday knowing what I know now but in the meantime, I've got other things to play.
It breaks my heart to hear someone say so many negative things about one of my favourite childhood games! lol. Sorry you didn't have a good time with Evermore... I still love it, though 😁
How about this? You can love it enough for the both of us! I'm glad this game has so many fans! It clearly strikes a chord with many, but it just never felt fun for me during my time with it.
I never encountered any bugs. This is one of my favorite snes games. I do admit that it is definitely a git-gud title and you need to do a lot of grinding. Not for everyone but those who like it often love it.
Yeah, I'm definitely in the minority here. I've played a lot of games from around this time and something about this one just never really clicked for me.
First off, if you want to play Secret of Evermore for the first time nowadays I think you should check out ninakoru's balance patch (it's at RHDN), it's an overall more fun and better flowing experience. Still the game is solid without it if you focus on a few spells per area. Since a lot of the conversation about the game compares it to Secret of Mana, let's go for it because this is overall the better game to me: First off the hit detection is better, with less of a chance to screw up a charge attack and IIRC more of a chance to actually attack twice (if you attacked and dodged around the same time you can hold the button and attack again sometimes). While it is unintuitive to have stat-based success rate in an action game, certain items really help here. Combat hit detection, while not perfect, isn't that much of a problem if you use alchemy and charge up attacks (admittedly they take time to level up but there's also items in the game that make you hit easier and dodge much easier). Sticking with the comparison, dialogue is much better than in SoM, though parts of the story are still a bit dumb and the late game felt rushed. If you're into Lucasarts P&C games from around this time you'll probably enjoy this story, it's overall comedic but with some emotional weight that is strengthened by a fantastic OST and it doesn't read like an b-tier translation of a JP game with seemingly shortened sentences here and there (although having played a retranslation of SoM the script there just isn't that good to me). Regarding the dungeons there are some good ones with puzzle elements like the colosseum and pyramid, certainly a step up from Secret of Mana to me which also had overall shallow dungeons (unlike FF Adventure oddly enough). Some of the mazes are tedious, especially the dark cave, but the forest does have visual clues. One of the more unique aspects, the alchemy system I found really fun and it makes sense why it's a 1-player game given how you order the NPC dog to look for ingredients. Balance-wise it works better in the patch, leading to less grinding. This is one of few games where I wanted to skim through every environment looking for resources. However I'll agree that combat flows a bit worse than a 2-3 player SoM game since you can't directly make the dog attack while you're recovering or charging up. 9:29 regarding these enemies though it's better to just use some alchemy you've leveled up such as Flash, which you didn't use at all. That "dog in the forest" bug I've never seen and I've played through the game like 4 times, that's really odd. Was the confound spell not curable either? Never encountered that either. But fair enough about the jail cell bug!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. I'll assume your comment is meant more for everyone else here since I tried very hard not to draw any conclusions based on how this one compares to Secret of Mana (except that one bit about SoM having MP to make grinding easier). I think all of what you're saying here is very true, but for a first time player with no guide or help (and no patch!) a lot of this stuff isn't intuitive, and I think some aspects of that are poor design. I've played a lot of games where I at least eventually start improving or having fun after a rough start, and that never happened for me here. I think on a subsequent playthrough or with a patch like you mentioned, this game has the potential to be great when you know how to use the many, many things you're presented with to the best of their potential. I just have a really hard time supporting the idea of this being a good game as is due to a lot of the problems I encountered, but that's just one person's opinion on the internet.
@@hungrygoriya True, well actually I had replied on a few other reviews or retrospectives about SoE on here before but in a more scattered way so thought I'd make one big, thorough comment here which also adresses these comparisons more generally. Yeah if you ever do revisit it that patch should be a smoother experience but otherwise you'd probably have to focus on a few spells only if you want to avoid most grinding, which I'll agree is a flaw. I didn't have a problem with most puzzles or exploration-based challenges though, other than there being too many mazes. Didn't have problems picking up ingredients either save for in maybe 2-3 spots IIRC, you just get a feel for it after a while. If you have the same attitude as when playing Zelda 1 (while it has tighter hit detection you can run and use spells as well as rely on the dog here) I guess these aspects would be more fun.
I played this game as a kid and never experienced the bugs; it is interesting to see other peoples gaming experiences with this game being so different! I totally feel the leaving items behind out of fear of losing your progress in a maze, it felt tedious at times for sure! Great review!
I'm glad we're on the same page. I'm not sure why I had such bad luck with this game and its glitches but I am pretty unlucky when it comes to that sort of thing. If there's a lockup in a game, I'll usually find it.
This makes me pretty sad. Secret of Evermore was one of those RPGs from the 16-bit era that I never got to play, so it always kind of had this mystical quality to it. I already really liked Secret of Mana, which this definitely has a good bit of DNA from, and as you said, the settings and character definitely stand out. I always thought this one never got rereleased because of it being made outside Japan, but maybe that isn't the reason after all.
You know, if you play with a guide, it might be a more pleasant experience. Knowing when/where you can buy reagents and being able to plan which spells to level knowing what they do would've been a big benefit to set me up for success. As always though, I just went in with what came with the game and struggled with the anxiety of the unknown.
@@hungrygoriya iirc, SoE doesn’t have the % chance to miss that plagues SoM. However, the weapons only level up to-what-3 charges instead of 8? And with only 4 weapons types, that’s not a lot of charge attacks to work with.
The bartering bazaar segment was an object lesson on the value of a solid medium of exchange when I was a kid. Whenever I've run into someone who says stuff like "money is evil" or something similar, I know they never played Secret of Evermore at the very least.
@@hungrygoriya Without a good Guide, it takes several playthrous to figure out a 100% completist way. For Example. Before leaving the first act you have to collect 20k currency. so you can exchange it at the beginning in the 2nd act to buy a amulet of charon for 10k. if you do this you will get a charm in addition for free. this charm then can be traded away at the market for another important item. so that you can buy the charm at the marked in act 3 back. another thing is when you got through the desert to the city there is a sandwirl beside the city. if you stand in it for a long time (and after several healing spells) you will get sucked into an unterneath cave where you find a huge amound of goods that are needed for trading at the marked. another thins is to figure out spots to powerfarm the spells. there are spots where you can get more money per cast (while targeting and killing multiple targets)then the ingrediences for one spell cost.
Videogames aren't real, though... Well, the physical aspects are but... yeah. Having to trade rice for a chicken leaves you with rice if the chicken trader tries to rip you off. If you hoard 1000 dollars in the bank and inflation rises by 50% then you lose 500 dollars for free. Nice! Very superior...not.
I beat this in 8th grade decades ago. Was pretty influential for me. I think the game was way ahead of it's time. Going back it does have some glaring issues. The hit box detection and movement is enough to prevent a replay. In a pre ps1 world this was great though.
Personally, as someone else who has completed Mike Tyson's Punch-Out, Zelda II and Secret of Evermore, I do go back to this game sometimes just for the music and atmosphere (not the first to say that :P). I also, out of those 3, found Secret of Evermore to be the easiest. However, many of the points are valid. I would also question the "worst" on SNES, though. The alchemy system kinda sucks, but there's no need to build up all your abilities, as you saw. I think the downfall is more that you can build up a few beasts like Crush & Heal and never need much else, so it becomes useless, as opposed to a concern for lack of ingredients. I do think it gets a lot worse than Secret of Evermore though. The 7th Saga, for example, talk about grind fest.
Secret of Evemore was definitely an easier time than the other two I mentioned. I just found the combat in MTPO and Zelda II to be really interesting, whereas in Evermore, it just felt a little boring. And yeah, I managed to make it through the game without using much magic until Super Heal at the end, and also some buffs that make your attack stronger/make you invincible for a short time (I can't remember the spell names now, but they were very handy! I'm glad I found them!) Secret of Evermore is my worst SNES experience. I'd never say something definitive like it's the worst on the SNES for everyone ever. I've played the 7th Saga and actually really liked it for its challenge and strategy. At least I could connect with enemies consistently in battle in that one... Thanks for your insights here!
@@hungrygoriya Ah, yeah, I can agree the combat could be looked at as boring. If you enjoyed The 7th Saga more, though, I cannot fault your patience as the weak link! xD I just found the "challenge" in that game to be suffering through dozens of battles to level up enough to progress to the next area. It seemed to be more a tenacity test than strategy test. Certainly, you can cut that down by good battle strategy, but more than once when I went that route, I'd grind for 2 hours just to be out in the middle of nowhere and run into enemies that successfully cast a death spell on all my party members >_
Thanks for this video, it's wild I just completed a run of this on my own. It's one of my favorites and I'll always defend it but yeah I just used maps for the mazelike areas, although I did write out a Nobilia market flowchart just like old times. I'll always remember Secret of Evermore for the areas where the only sound backdrop is birds chirping, a lonely gust of wind. First time I had such a strong sense of place from a video game. Many years ago I read a bunch of posts on the gamefaqs forum by someone claiming to be one of the devs who said the game's working title was just "Evermore" until weeks before the game shipped Square made them change it to "Secret of Evermore" presumably to drum up more sales based on the popularity of Secret of Mana. It's been a long time though so I might be distorting/misremembering details! Or basic facts!
What timing eh? It's always nice to hear what people loved about the game since I struggled with so many aspects in it. I did love the atmosphere/music and all of the visuals, as well as the story. I just wish the gameplay had been a little more enjoyable. That's a really neat tidbit that you gleaned from that forum. I can just imagine the conversation that happened about the title change. Marketing marketing marketing!
I also played this game when it first came out. As a huge Secret of Mana fan, I was hoping that this was exactly the sequel I wanted. Well, it really wasn't. I ran into nearly all the same issues you did: the hitboxes made melee combat difficult, and the alchemy system never clicked for me at all. I was just a kid! Trying to keep track of where to buy those alchemy ingredients was way too hard, and it meant that I never leveled up the vast majority of my spells because I never had enough uses of them to spare to do it. I still forced myself to finish the game, but I've never gone back and replayed it since. Recently I watched a playthrough by someone who knew all the ins and outs, and seeing him display all the glitches and explain which charms were and weren't useful was just mind-boggling to me. Half the things don't do what they're supposed to, and a surprising number of items you can get in that bazaar in the second world can only be gotten during the timed event your first time there. It just doesn't seem worth it to me to take the time to learn the ins and outs of the system, because, at the end of the day, the game just isn't fun for me. I guess my point is I'm sorry you ran into similar problems, but you aren't the only one. Even when this game was new, it was pretty divisive!
I appreciate the solidarity in this experience. I'm sorry that you also had a rough go with it, but I'm grateful to know that I'm not crazy for feeling the way I do about this one. I'd love to watch some more reviews or a playthrough like what you've described just to see how it's done right. I think there's much to learn to get something out of this game, but I'm not interested in sinking in any more time to do it for myself.
i was an adult working on it and playing it and i had to keep notes about stores, bartering and a few other things. but that was quite common back in the day for complicated games. we were walking the tightrope between a child-friendly and an adult-audience game. the bartering section wasn't my favorite, but George did an amazing job on it and many people fell in love with it. i did ask George if we could hide a few duplicate items in nearby areas so people bad at bartering still had a shot to get things if they explored
@@mazthespaz1 Yeah, I think my biggest issue with it was just that I was a kid with a certain set of expectations of it being a simpler game (and yes, there were many more complicated ones: I sure wasn't finishing any of the Ultima games from that same time, that's for sure), and now I worry that I'd need a guide to get through it because of some of the bugs/glitches that would, if the game were released today, be easily fixed in a patch. It just wasn't for me, though I do think that the writing and the world-building were great and made it worth finishing. Thanks for commenting! That's some really fascinating insight, and I really appreciate you taking the time like this!
I remember the combat being very finnicky, even in Secret of Mana. Thankfully, magic/alchemy is so overpowered compared to weapons, in both games I ended up just leveling those up and getting carried by it. I remember the "Crush" spell in particular being super useful all game long.
@@IaconDawnshire I haven't played Evermore in a few decades but I believe there were certain Alchemy recipes you could use that could do it. But since it has been so long since I played, I could be thinking about Secret of Mana which I played a whole lot more.
The dog was the main point. It kills me that you don't understand the bit that you are the observer who's real strength came from the only true bond you had when taken out of your comfort zone. Never had a problem on console btw
I have to add that the lack of skill in hitting enemies is on you, I loved this game and beat it within three days. Secret of mana was a massive favorite of mine as well... Which weapons did you truly max out with orbs?
I leaned into the dog a lot in the space area and let him do his thing in most battles at medium aggression. Maybe I should've turned that setting up a bit? I don't know. And are you thinking of Secret of Mana with the orbs? Here the levelling happens with use. I threw most of my time into levelling up the various spears since they could be thrown. They were garbage for melee but I think (if I remember right) every class could be thrown after it reached level 2. I didn't have interest in constantly swinging and missing with swords and axes. And desperately attempting to level the spear is what you see me doing a lot in this video. Lots of people have commented, "oh you're using the spear for melee, why choose that it's the worst" and you have to kill stuff with it to level it up... before you get fast travel, you're stuck swinging it at whatever's around until it hits level 2.
@@hungrygoriya that makes sense with the dogs agro, much easier on the high setting. The orb reference was from secret of mana, most people didn't max out the weapons because the final orbs were random drops. Another fun feature in secret of mana was the magic. When maxed out the spells occasionally cast a semi cinematic version of themselves. An easy way of leveling the magic was to spam cast back and forth between your allies in a rapid fashion before each spell finished being cast. If you haven't already played illusion of Gaia, I would highly recommend that one as well.
I'm sorry that you had a bad time. One thing i learned quickly is that the dog will sniff at stuff in the field like the chicken, people feet, and trees. There's no ingredient it's just dog being a dog. I don't know what tips to give because it's things i just learned when i was a kid. It's one of my favorite games but I can understand things i find enjoyable to me aggravating to some. for instance I love the bartering system, it reminded me of uncharted waters on the nes.
So you're telling me that whole time, there was nothing in the middle of all those animals? Ohhhh man. I definitely think a lot of what I like in a game all boils down to personal preference. I still have yet to play Uncharted Waters but maybe I'll push it further down the list if it's like the market...
@@hungrygoriya The first one was about trading, the second one has different scenario including a cool female pirate one where she's out to get revenge.
@@SinisterSally Gotcha! I've only played a bit of Pirates on NES, which I'm sure is not even the same series at all. Cool to know that Uncharted Waters will be interesting to try sometime.
@@hungrygoriya no, Pirates is by Sid Meyer of Civilization fame, Uncharted Waters is a Koei history sim. In this case it's the early days of the age of discovery. I don't even think The Americas were discovered yet in the first one. Edit: it's apparently still going strong in Asian markets, even has an MMO.
Secret of Evermore is a heartbreaker of a game. I've tried to play it many times and every time it feels like it's on the cusp of being good, and that makes all the glaring flaws that much more noticeable. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience Goriya. It's pretty rare for a game to leave a sour taste in your mouth like this, hopefully you recovered well.
Yeah, that feeling of waiting for it to finally turn the corner and start being fun is what kept me engaged for a while, but there was a point of no return after a while where I realized it'd feel the same the rest of the time.
@@hungrygoriya I feel like my childhood friend that played through secret of evermore was waiting for it to be good and he was trying to convince me that it was a good game just as much as he was trying to convince himself
Guess I'm weird. Enjoyed the game as a kid and beat it. Haven't revisited it as an adult. Might be time for a 2nd try. Anyways, appreciate the video and your perspective as always.
I don't think you're weird! This is my very personal opinion about a game that I didn't really enjoy! I hope you continue to have fun with it even these days. It just didn't click with me.
Gotta admit, I played this at age 14, never had any of the problems you experienced. And many of the points that irked you, were what I liked: finding hidden spots, mazes etc. Compare that to a AAA game from today: Jefi Survivor, with endless backtracking, glitchy commands, unfair battles etc... I dunno. I liked SoE much more...
Different strokes I guess. I'm glad you enjoyed this one so much. I really wanted to connect with it, but I guess I just enjoy different things in my adventure games. It still had a lot of good things about it but the things that got on my nerves really did. I haven't played any modern stuff at all so I can't compare, but I'll take your word on this game being better in many ways!
@@hungrygoriya a positive agree to disagree. I had almost given up hope to find courteous people like yourself online. Glad to see they still exist! Keep on making video's! They are good 😉 cheerz
SoE is one of the few games of this genre that I never played back in the day but certainly heard about it. I remember my younger siblings playing it and they seemed pretty frustrated and I'm not sure if they ever completed it. Your critiques of the game are valid, although this is one of those "classics" that some people will defend with their last breath while casually overlooking its flaws. I applaud your honesty for speaking out with an unpopular opinion!
its probably common knowledge now: the soundtrack was Jeremy Soule's first video game work. He would later compose the soundtrack for the Elder Scrolls Series such as Morrowind and Skyrim. He did a very different approach to the (mostly japanese) RPGs of that time on the SNES.
@@hungrygoriya you're not wrong about the mazes though, I didn't really realize it until you pointed it out - that said, the challenging nature of some of them feels just right and is better than the super straight forward ones from say Secret of Mana. The Hall of Collosia was a really cool one, but the forest and the pyramid were fucking so boring you're right
I'm so glad HCBailly did an incredibly thorough Let's Play of this game, because I never had the patience for it either. I think playing Secret of Mana first colored my expectations.
This game is a must-try simply for the weird disjointed highs and lows this game gives you. Like as an example: the market section was a wonderful idea except for the fact of the time limit. That ruins the entire section because its no longer a puzzle tapestry that you can slowly unravel at your pace and then feel accomplished. Instead because of the time limit, it immediately becomes frustration inducing. But its also something I havent seen done in games before. I really like this game even with the flaws, but it is more of a game to experience and share with others, rather than saying its a wonderful game and how the story carries it if that makes sense. Brainlord comes to mind as another example where its both hard to recommend, and you likely won't play it again due to the bad parts but the good or unique parts are fun to talk about with others.
It's definitely got a lot of weird tonal shifts throughout, absolutely. It's definitely anomalous and unique among many of the other games out there. I just wish it felt a bit better at a fundamental level. I think I would've at least enjoyed the combat if I could've connected well with enemies once in a while.
@@hungrygoriya The hit detection and 100% meter thing is why I dont like this and Secret of Mana nearly as much as I could. If it was just a normal attack like in LttP, both games would be way better for it. Great review again btw. I actually think you did see the good in it since you saw the vision and its high points. Its just the disappointment hits people differently.
I loved the game. The intro with the comments of the boy without seeing it made my imagination and curiosity go wild, similar to the scene in the governor's mansion in The Secret of Monkey Island. And i never experienced the bugs you mentioned, at least not on my original SNES cartridge. The market in Nobilia is great idea in my opinion, but you need the official guide to find the needed items. Luckily it was included in the box with the game. The fighting system is not as bad as you make it. I see the loading of the attack like a cooldown in other games, but here you can interrupt the cooldown for making a weaker attack. Anoying was only the weird hit detection. Even if you hit, sometimes there was the message "miss", especially with this nasty mosquitoes. With alchemy and getting ingredients I never had problems. You need only a few spells from the first or maybe second world and the ingredients for these particular are easy to find and nearly always available at shops. But it's sad that this makes later spells just useless. :(
Do you mind me asking if you're from a PAL region? I know that release of the game came with the guide but as far as I understand, I don't think it was released in North America. I played this game on original hardware with the cartridge, and a few others have mentioned the bugs I ran into as well. Apparently I just have really bad luck with bugs/softlocks! The hit detection was not good, I agree. I think stats for hit accuracy must exist somewhere in the character slate but I found the consistency of being able to hit things all over the place. And I think my issue with the alchemy was that I was having such a hard time killing enemies (I couldn't hit them and I kept getting hit a lot and needing to heal up) that I couldn't save money, and levelling weapons was free. By the time I had enough money in the bank and access to some shops with interesting ingredients, I was already content enough to stick with the weapons rather than starting up a whole new method of attack.
It's a strange thing to know, deep down, that everything I loved MOST about this game, is something that made her life hell. I remember working out the math, finding out exactly what I had to do to make the most of the market, and getting armor and weapons from HOURS ahead in the game from solving it, and being so over powered. Gameplay that encouraged slow and careful play, that was THE BEST. I'd spend HOURS in each cave, finding the right path, finding every drop, ever ingredient, and because I'd gone slowly in the last 2 regions, I had stockpiles of everything I needed. High evasion monsters got taken down with high accuracy magic. Other things were hit with the charge attack that I'd been holding for the last minute. I still have the map of the dark air duct maze that I made for myself. But sure, it's got to be frustrating for you to have folks like me step out of the woodwork and say, "yha, but" at you, so I won't. This game, and people who played it, we're a product of the time. You just don't HAVE 36 hours to spend grinding in the first 3 screens of the desert to buy the items from the guy in the first cave. And that is okay.
I'm honestly glad you had so much fun with it. Any read through this comment section will show that you are not alone in your sentiments and that my feelings about this one only align with about half the folks here. At the end of the day, I think a lot of it boils down to personal preference more than it does time. I carve out at least 16 hours a week to play these games during scheduled streams, and I play them until I'm finished with them. I've beaten games that require a ton of grinding (8-bit RPGs like Phantasy Star, The 7th Saga, etc.), so it's not that aspect that pushed me away from seeing this through to its "full potential" as many people have implied I missed out on here. It just wasn't fun for me, and I'm not inclined to keep swinging and missing at enemies, pr trying to get money to buy ingredients to level spells that I'm not even sure will be worth levelling in a first playthrough. It was far too open-ended with too many options, and I took the easy way out with the weapon levelling since that saw me through. Once I had the throwing spear, I was set. With the understanding I have of how the game works now, I could easily go back and do all the things you mention here, crush the game and have a lot nicer of a time with it. As a first timer though, it was excruciating for me and it turned me off enough to not want to touch it again for a long while.
*nod* yha, but I still feel bad that the stuff I liked, was so bad for you, and that you felt you had to play through it. Never like to see anybody suffer.
@@ICountFrom0 I don't like suffering either, for what it's worth, but it was more of an eye-opening experience. I came away learning a bit about my preferences in games and that's not a bad thing. I appreciate this sentiment very much!
They just don't make games like that anymore. Games that don't give you a minimap, chew everything up for you, games where there are secrets that 99% of players won't find. And it wouldn't work today because players have access to the internet anyways. Morrowind or Gothic 1/2 were similar. Oh, you just walked into a monster three times your level? Dead in a second. Oh, you got lost? No map for you, find out yourself. Frustrating, yes - but so much more rewarding than the games nowadays.
Did you play this back in the 90's on and actual super nintendo? or was this recent to the time the video was made emulated? This game is definitely a "you had to be there on a Friday night in the 90's playing this at a sleepover" to understand it was an amazing game for its time.
I didn't play this game when it was new, only over the last couple of years. I did play on original hardware though. I honestly think a first-time playthrough will be tough for anyone coming to the game, but it probably benefits from multiple playthroughs. I just have no desire to replay it at this point.
I recently played this for the first time and I agree with your complaints about the "hurry up and wait" aspect to the combat. Sitting around and waiting for your weapon meter to hit 100% was so frustrating, especially if you whiffed your attack. Secret of Mana suffers from this problem as well, which is weird, because as a kid I absolutely loved Secret of Mana. As an adult I realized it has glaring flaws that I'm surprised I was able to just gloss over back then.
I played Secret of Mana as a kid, and was annoyed by the constant charging. I found the game a huge turn off despite my friend and his brother really liking it. I wasn't interested in playing it. The combat felt clunky and wasn't fun to engage in. I never bothered with Secret of Evermore as I expected it to be simlar to SoM.
@@hungrygoriya That's fair. I enjoyed Legends of Mana(I beat it twice one normal and the hardest setting.) and the remake of Trials of Mana(I got all the trophies for it on my PS4) more than Secret of Mana. It just wasn't for me.
oh my god, the jail cell bug. i scripted that area. it was supposed to be written differently but the game always locked up. the programmers could not figure out why. they tried several things. i spent 2 days rescripting the area different ways and finally got the jail cell to work what seemed 100% of the time. and the testing guys passed it. of course, once a zillion people tried it, some people got the freeze again.
I can't even begin to imagine how many things can go wrong once people play through a game an infinite number of different ways! A reset there wouldn't have been so bad if I hadn't had to go through the forest maze again...
Thanks for your work on the writing for Secret of Evermore. It's definitely what stood out the most to me and seems to be very memorable for many people here as well.
I overlooked all the flaws and enjoyed this game immensely. Thank you for your part in making this wonderful game!
I love this game, and I never got locked into this area. Im looking for you in the credits next time I play Paul Mazerek!
@@kevindepuy5390 i haven't seen the credits in years but i should be there 3 or 4 times
@@mazthespaz1 Nice to read another one of you. Years back Brian Fehdrau suddenly appeared on the GameFAQs forums for SoE (under ItsBillsFault ;) ) and now you here. :) Thanks for your amazing work back then.
SoE was my first ever SNES RPG and god, i still love this game and play it at least every year once since back then. :)
Looking out for you in the credits this time!
My name is Brian Fehdrau, and as the lead programmer, I'm inclined to be defensive, but the truth is that you raise a few good points about the bugs, which I have said for many years have left me apologizing to people when they tell me they played the game. Although I wish I could bathe in the kind words of those have since told me they loved the game, in spite of any bugs they might have had to deal with, I think your video is somewhat validating of my worries that not everyone could enjoy the game. So, I'd offer to you, and to anyone else affected, my apologies for the bugs that made it into the released version. We were a crew of relative newbies to the industry and we made a lot of mistakes that we weren't able to fix before deadlines arrived and the game had to go out the door. I've always felt bad about kids who played the game and had a bad experience.
I will say that a lot of your other dislikes are things that other people actively like, so in that respect I think it may have been a matter of personal taste. For instance, a lot of people liked the alchemy system vs. effectively-infinite mana pools that didn't really require you to be responsible with your magic usage. Many saw that as a challenge. Similarly so for the market. It all depends on expectations, really.
Speaking of the market, I _would_ agree there was too much forced running of long distances back and forth through its maze-like layout. As a gamer myself, I hate make-work and fetch quests. I also agree that the trial-and-error mazes like Thraxx's or the sewer pipes were bad. I plead innocence, as I worked on neither the market nor the mazes, being more focused on the engine that ran the game than on the scripted content, though I suppose I could have at least said something and maybe influenced the design, I dunno. Artists and writers tend not to be very receptive to the sort of usally-autistic opinions that programmers might express. ;)
Anyway, for good or bad, I appreciate that you at least gave our game a try. I hope you had at least a few good moments among the bad, and no hard feelings about the review!
Hey there! Thanks for taking a moment to stop in and leave a message on the video. For what it's worth, I seem to be among very few here that didn't love my experience with Secret of Evermore. There are many people, if you scroll through this sea of comments, that adored the game you and your team made and appreciate it as a fond childhood memory. You will definitely find lots of positivity to bask in!
I hope I said it enough in the video that this was my own personal experience with the game and I certainly don't represent everyone out there. I struggled a lot and didn't enjoy a lot of the action aspects of this one, but I did adore the music and atmosphere, as well as the story. Lots of the ideas were great, and I think if I ever did replay this game, I'd dive into the alchemy a lot more and be more confident purchasing ingredients. In a first playthrough without any guide in hand though, it was difficult to know what to focus on in a game like this that provides so many options but doesn't really lead you to any of them.
And I really wish I loved the market! It just ground my momentum to a halt... I couldn't leave without the spoils though!
Thank you for your efforts here, and your kindness in this message as well. Anyone that has bothered to make a game and has brought joy to people out there (and in this case, many!) has my respect.
@@hungrygoriya I just wanna say that I think your experience is entirely valid and that you really don't need to temper the tone of your review at all.
You took some unlucky paths through the game, and were also just not in the mood for some of the stuff it threw at you. I accept that there were some flaws and I also don't mind that the game didn't hit the same way for you as it did for someone who liked it, though obviously I would have been happier to know you'd had a good time of it, for your sake more than mine.
I've long since learned not to beat myself up too hard for mistakes I made when I was younger and had fewer skills and less wisdom. It's just the nature of exuberant youth vs. careful experience. So don't feel bad about the tone of your review! It's totally understandable and not really that hard to hear from my standpoint, especially since I agree with many of the things you said.
Indeed, working on Evermore and making mistakes probably taught me stuff that allowed me to produce better content later on. Learning is usually about trial and error, so I try not to crucify myself for the errors I've made, as long as they meant I would put better stuff out into the world as a result.
Anyway, thanks again for taking a run at our game. It's nice to know it can still attract attention after all this time! If you ever do a second pass, I'd recommend that you check into some of the romhacks out there that fix a few of the low-hanging-fruit bugs, rebalance the combat a bit, and/or allow a second person to control The Dog.
(That's one of the few things I still choose to regret, btw. I really wish we'd taken the chance on softlocks and allowed players to play co-op. You could play co-op during development, but we were just too scared of people getting The Boy and The Dog stuck somehow, since we knew it happened sometimes in Mana.)
I loved the game. Bugs or reloading save games was normal back then, I didn't care at all. Also the difficulty and frustration of the game was fine for the 90s. I got stuck for weeks at the part where you need to get the diamond eyes for the spaceship. But that's how games were played back then 😂
I never would have thought I would find a dev of SoE on the Internet it made my day. 😂
@@LuckyRaphi Haha it's fun to make someone's day basically by existing! 😆 You know, it's funny you mention that bugs and such were common back then. I had the impression that Nintendo was a major stickler for finding bugs and refusing certification, but in the end I think publishers always found some leverage to push their game through. That happened with us and maybe it happened with other devs. Still, feeds bad to leave bugs anyway. Ah well, at least these days people can patch the rom to fix some of them, and they have. Anyway, cheers for the kind words! 🙂
Your game was one of my absolute favorites when I was a kid. From graphics, gameplay, soundtrack and atmosphere. I still love it today! I did never knew about those bugs. Greetings from germany!
I got this game for Christmas when it originally came out. I finished the game with no guides. Looking back I have no idea how I managed to figure out everything.
I got through without guides as well, but just never used a lot of attack magic. It's pretty linear all said!
Wasn't it sold with the guidebook like secret of mana?
@@Matt_DC As far as I know, it wasn't sold with a guide in North America. I think it was in PAL regions.
@@hungrygoriya Thanks, didn't know that :)
I finished it also without a guide back in 1995 or 96? I later replayed it on an emulator and found out... I missed a lot of spells and areas, one in a sewer you can never go back too.
I am sorry you had a bad experience with this game. I played this game when it came out many, many years ago, and I have to say it was my absolute favorite games on the SNES. As a matter of fact I played it multiple times and beat it each time without any issues.
Same here. When I played it I thought, it's like secret of mana but better! Best SNES action rpg experience for me
Right there with you both. I am baffled by this "review". She's normally far more objective.
@@lexluthermiester From watching the stream I think a lot of the problem might have been she never used offensive alchemy spells. She was too worried about ingredients running out despite almost everything being available to buy. Though they do take a long time to level up, just like the weapons so that could also hurt the fun.
As a kid I loved trying to mix spells like Crush and Flame or Lance and Acid rain together.
You're right, but for most of the game, I didn't have a lot of money to really buy ingredients or have regular access to them. And by the time I did, my weapons were high level enough that it made more sense to use them. Different strokes I guess! I'm glad you liked the alchemy system. It just didn't click with me.
I definitely enjoyed some aspects of the game, but when the fighting felt that broken, I just couldn't come away feeling good about it.
The market is a unique maze on its own just through the bartering... I liked it.
I had a bunch of people in the streams that loved the market. That's why I spent the time to figure it out, because people reassured me it'd be fun. I did not have fun, haha
@@hungrygoriya yea, this is not a game I would force on anyone, especially one not from the era, so to speak.
I loooove the market, and was still finding new things there many playthroughs later. I wish more games had something like this.
Fun fact: The Cecil in the shop 2/3rds through the game is supposed to be the main character from Final Fantasy IV (II in the US) after he had retired from being king.
Yeah! Thankfully I've played FFIV before so I thought that was a really cool and random cameo!
we also put chocobo eggs in the game without asking squaresoft for permission
How does a king retire?
That's not allowed.
@@CurlyFromTheSwirly They decide they are too old to do the job and step down and give the throne to their son or another relative. I happened a lot back in the day and still does.
@@Memememe-is1yn,
I see your point. It's more selfless.
It's better than staying for 200 years like that wrecked queen of England did.
I LOVED playing this game! It’s a hidden gem!
No a hidden gem, I think... But for me it is one of my favourite games for the SNES.
100% This is in my top 5 SNES games of all time. It's a shame so few people know about it.
I'm doing a 100% run of it at the moment! Definitely underrated
I'm sorry to hear you didn't enjoy this. Secret Of Evermore was one of the most joyful experiences of the SNES for me, if not the most, if not the most joyful video game experiences of all.
I bought it used, so no manual, and needed to figure everything out myself. I didn't even know about the ability to charge up attacks past 100% until way into the game when I did it on accident. The humor stood out a lot, as did the fact that it felt like actual English writing, not Japanese writing that was translated. The settings were distinct, and story was full of character. However, I discovered that over time.
I bought it after trying it out (the used game shop I got it at let customers try games before buying), and the first 10 minutes or so hooked me in. The alchemy felt more like the survival lite aspects you see in modern games, like Witcher 3, where you are spending a lot of time looking for stuff. I enjoyed the searching for stuff, and it meant being more thoughtful about when to use magic.
I'm glad you had such a wonderful time with it. I really wanted to enjoy this one more but it just never started feeling fun for me. I can definitely understand why people like this one, and in a subsequent playthrough where I'd be more comfortable trying out alchemy, I might enjoy it a lot more for myself too.
I definitely liked it a lot and I beat it more than once, and honestly some of the things she's talking about made me think that it was a problem with an emulator or something.
I don't remember having any of these issues.
I only beat it two or three times though.
I would say that I enjoyed Chrono trigger more.
I think I beat Chrono trigger more than any other RPG I ever played.
I mean, unless you count Diablo 2 as a RPG
I technically beat that a million times or so
@@Tyjohnable I didn't use an emulator when I played this, but glad you didn't have any problems. I've read from some folks here that experienced glitches and some that experienced none, so you're in the better club!
@@hungrygoriya
Yeah I guess I either got really lucky or I'm remembering with nostalgia glasses because I don't remember ever having problems picking up the stuff that the dog was sniffing or hitting enemies, but I often did charge up
I did find it kind of annoying that hitting an enemy with anything other than 100 did no damage
Hitting them when your charge is at 80% should make you do 80% damage. Hitting them when your charges at 25% should make you do 25% damage.
Seriously, what's the point of having the numbers if they're meaningless?
Hitting an enemy at 90% does the same amount as hitting an enemy at 4%
@@Tyjohnable Yeah, there are a few details like that that bugged me too. Most of the time if you see me swinging at enemies with the spear, it's because I'm trying to level it up so I can eventually throw it. It was a bummer to always start at 0 again with a brand new spear.
One of those rare cases where you had to be there when it came out. I get it, some day people will look back at games released today and wonder how we put up with things.
I don't know that it's necessarily this. I play a lot of games from this generation and enjoy them quite a bit. I have patience of steel in many cases, but this game just pushed me past my tolerance threshold.
I got this the first day it was out but I was so disappointed in how the game play was as it was supposed to be based off of the Secret of Mana engine and it is some what but not exactly the same. The long boring puzzling dungeons was what really got to me fast as mentioned in this video and the spells take FOREVER to level up because many spells use the same ingredients as others and many times you have to go hunting for them in the wild instead being able to buy them. then there are those spell that you can only get the ingredient once you use it and can't have multiple. After beating the game I returned it to the store and got a refund and got Chrono Trigger which was much much better trade and game.
Today I can go back and play it with more enjoyment as I am very familiar with it and I cheat using Game genie codes to make my experience better.
I asked that once to someone. They said "we just did"
This is an excellent video that helps manage expectations. You hit on why I don't like this game either: it feels like work. I'd completely forgotten about the money exchange nonsense. That, and the flea market, are the worst parts of the game for me.
I actually ran into that very same bug where your dog gets stuck in the corner. I thought that was just me, I did not realize that was just a problem with the game.
I reaaaaaaally want to like Secret of Evermore. I love the theme, and how it looks and sounds different than other action RPGs... but it just doesn't work. Too many problems
Thank you for saying this. I've seen so many fiercely passionate people that love this game around the internet over the past few days, and it's very heartening knowing my feelings are justified. I rewatched your original review after I published mine yesterday and was glad to know I wasn't alone, but I just realized that you also have a video where you revisited Secret of Evermore! I need to check that out!
I appreciate you stopping by!
Well, I mean, it worked for many people -- you guys just didn't like it. Some people not liking a game does not make for a bad game; every game isn't for everyone, and this one is far from universally panned.
@@SheonEver Oh yes, I don't think either of us said it was bad. I'm glad this game has fans, but I'm just not one of them.
I love it when two youtubers I like interact. I loved Secret of Evermore but both of your criticisms are completely justified. Maybe somebody will fix it like The no crying Mario hack for Yoshi's Island. 🤣😂🤣😂🍻
Just curious about the glitches. Are you guys using emulators are genuine hardware? I have sunk tons of times over decades now and again on this game and never experienced any of these. I am using an actual cart on either an actual SNES or a clone.
Longtime Secret of Evermore fan here to give his two cents.
Not going to criticize you necessarily for this review, obviously the game has flaws and not everyone is going to like it as much as me.
Not saying this as a criticism of you per se, but there are some issues with how you played the game. You really are supposed to use and rely on magic a lot, and it is actually very feasible to do so. You mentioned you didn't have the money to get the ingredients you needed because you were buying healing items. The biggest thing you missed was using the Heal spell that you get early in the game. It is SUPER useful. When you first get it, it barely heals, which is probably why you overlooked it, but once you level it up a few times it because incredibly potent and extremely efficient because it uses common ingredients. Healing items become totally obsolete and you can spend your hard-earned money on more ingredients. You'll have plenty.
Also, whenever your dog's attack levels up (up to 3), you're supposed to go into the AI menu and increase the number on the right side of the screen so the dog will use charged attacks. You can complain that the game doesn't explain to you or do this automatically, which is legit. The dog becomes super OP late in the game, doing an absolute truckload of damage with a fully-charged strike.
Your review was fairly written and well-done, so props to that. Again, I know the game's flaws, I'm not expecting you to play through it again or anything, but hopefully at least somebody reading these comments won't overlook this stuff.
Interesting thoughts here! I know the heal spell was definitely tempting, and I did use it a little bit, but to me it made more sense to use things that I could regularly find and have access to at shops rather than use a spell that I only had limited casts for. I think for a long time at the beginning, I wandered around with 16 casts of heal in my inventory just in case I needed it after running out of the healing items. I take your point though. I could've just dove in.
I knew about raising the aggression/charge level for the dog character, but it just made battles feel even longer. I tried it out for a bit and we kept getting steamrolled by the nearby enemies that would kill him while he was charging up. I can see the appeal of it. By the end of the game in the futuristic area, the dog was a total beast and I appreciated the helping hand in battle.
I hope that people do take your advice into consideration here.
@@hungrygoriya I totally get the whole "don't wanna use it because limited resources thing" because that's a way I tend to feel in games too. There are spells in Evermore where scarcity of certain ingredients can be an issue, Heal isn't one of them though.
@@hungrygoriya Something worth mentioning is some charged attacks give you invulnerable frames during startup. The level 3 attacks for the Swords (the actual swords, not the Bone,) and the axes do, and getting a special item called the Thug's Cloak raises your dodge rate so even if you get attacked on startup of your charged attacks you'll automatically dodge and do the attack again until it goes off.
I remember finding the exchange system used in that time period refreshing, back when I was twelve. It goes to show that different people can find reasons to love or hate different systems, based on their expectations and previous experiences. Amazing video.
Thank you! I suppose I don't like anything that just grinds the story to a halt, but I can see why someone might find that refreshing, versus a world where everyone just magically uses the same money. It's someone's imagination come to life, after all!
I also really enjoyed the market too, but trading twice for one of the ship components locked my game progress and I never finished the game.
@@james-michaelrobson287 :( oh no
I loved the market section it was one of my favorite parts of the game
@@Merknilash You and just about everyone else here! I don't know why it didn't click with me, but I hated how the game tempted you with these awesome items but put them behind a huge undertaking like the market.
There were also references to Final Fantasy in a couple of places. FF VI characters are in the audience at the Colloseum and Cecil from FF IV runs a weapon shop in the medieval world.
Yeah! Those were some cool touches! I didn't want to spoil these things in the video for people who hadn't played the game for themselves, but I busted out laughing at Cecil's shop.
@@hungrygoriya I guess he got tired of ruling the kingdom after his adventures 😂
I understood all of your criticisms for this game, and yet it is still my favorite SNES game if all time. One trick to making the Bazaar trading less tedious is to go outside the Bazaar back in to the desert and go up and to the left until you find a whirlpool of sand that spins you in circles, sit there for about a minute and it will suck you underground where you will be given 99 spice and 99 rice. Makes trading much easier. Not that I expect you would replay the game just for this little gimmick but maybe someone will get some use out of it.
I'm really glad that you enjoyed this one. I wanted so badly to like it more than I did, but hopefully someone will get some use out of your cool exploit! I had no idea that was there. Thank you for sharing!
There's also a corner in front of the palace in that same city where you can pick up infinite, or near infinite, call beads. And a glitch/exploit that can give you infinite bazooka rounds by using the knockback animation from firing the bazooka to push yourself into the crater where the dog statue used to be. I got it to work once but I don't fully understand how the glitch works.
The algorithm just offered me this video, and I had to click IMMEDIATELY, as Evermore is one of my favourite games of the 16 bit era.
I'm only a few minutes in and I already want to say THANK YOU for putting the titles on screen when showing footage of other games. I wish more youtubers would do this.
Thanks! I hate scratching my head wondering what cool game I just saw in someone else's video so I've made it a point to do that. It's so hard to image search from something like "cute helmet-wearing protagonist with axe", haha
just wanted to say that I really appreciate your commitment to these otherwise forgotten games. I'm drawn in by the chance to get a taste of what the game was like, "okay, I'll give this two minutes and I'm out," but I always stay to hear your aggressively holistic take, and I especially appreciate your zeal for the game manuals! I loved seeing your innate politeness being slowly broken down by your experience with the game, and the way you let the game's shortcomings speak for themselves by what you're showing on screen - that long pan across your notebook was subtle and damning. your videos have really come a long way, thank you for taking such care in making them!!!
This is really sweet! Thanks for your kind words. I've learned a lot over the years with editing and writing, so it's nice to know that's shining through a bit in the final video that gets put out there. Secret of Evermore really wore me down over time. I kept waiting for the moment I might start really enjoying it, but it just never came. There are only a few other games I've played that have frustrated me almost as much as this, and those are Phantasy Star II, Elemental Gimmick Gear, and Breath of Fire.
I always find it wild how divisive this game is. It's easily on my top 5 SNES favorites. When I first played it, it was just so enchanting and atmospheric. Still is. I found myself immersed in this mysterious world, and a character brought straight from the Earth we know helped achieve that. And of course, it was the first video game soundtrack written by the legendary Jeremy Soule. Graphically, musically, and in writing, it was a masterpiece.
The combat was darn near identical to Secret of Mana, and that's generally a well-received game. I had no trouble stomaching it, and actually enjoyed the toss-up between using a spell or charging a weapon. I found myself focusing on spells where the resources were readily available to purchase, and casting them frequently. If anything, my complaint would be that even by level 3 or 4, alchemy would absolutely destroy everything TOO easily. Even buying materials, the rate at which it killed would pay for itself. But to me, the combat felt tactical. I needed to make sure I lined up that shot perfectly so I didn't waste the charge.
The dungeons were definitely hearkening back to old games with their mazey-structure. Dead ends, loops, and bad-warps can be frustrating, but I gained a sense of satisfaction from exploring the new areas, and sniffing out those rare ingredients or items in the areas. There are just so many secrets and the completionist in me got that sweet endorphin rush as I collected more and more. Sure, I could just restore MP at an Inn in other games, OR I could get the satisfaction of making progress with every ingredient I had sniffed out by my faithful companion. Even if the mazes felt tedious, the atmosphere kept me in the game and enjoying it.
But the bugs do suck. Both the glitches and Mazquitos.
By the way, there is an improvement patch made for this game. It's actually really good, since it enhances the weakest parts of the game, and I still get to enjoy the atmospheric game I always have.
If I'm being completely honest, I didn't love the combat in SoM either. I think I had an easier time with it because of the weapon diversity, and eventually leaned heavily into spellcasting towards the end game after getting everything levelled up. I think it's just not something I personally enjoy.
I also love a good dungeon, especially one I can map. I just really didn't like the "choose a path" ones where you'd end up down a pit, have to get dumped back to the start again, and start over. I'd take wandering with a ton of random encounters in a turn-based game over that any day.
I'm so glad you had such a good experience with this game. You're among many here that treasure your time in childhood with it, and while I tend to enjoy most of the games I play, there was too much here that I didn't enjoy in my first playthrough that put me off of wanting to play it again. I will live vicariously through you and many others that have such fond memories of this adventure. Thanks for sharing your story!
Sad to hear you didn't enjoy it. This is honestly one of my favorite SNES games. The aesthetic was so unique, and Jeremy Soule's first soundtrack is fantastic. It's a shame the magic system is just as broken as SoM's but at least the whole alchemical thing was its own spin. I still go back and play this every now and then.
Yeah, I think the alchemy system was definitely an interesting touch. I just wish it felt a little easier to use at the beginning of the game. I lost interest by the time I could really take advantage of it.
whoa Jeremy Soule holy shit, that's awesome. guild wars 2 has an incredible soundtrack, I mean of course he's known for so many great games but GW2 is one of the only game soundtracks I listen to just because I love the music.
Soule composed this music as a teenager and IIRC it was his first big paying gig.
@@mallardstatue4190 His work is beautiful! Great ambience in every area, no doubt!
My favourite section of the game was the ambient sounds around the market, then outside of the arena how it's all silent except for birds, then you get to the arena and the cheering and music. Loved it.
This brings back some fond memories. I bought this game back in the day after saving up my allowance for months, because I thought it was a sequel to Secret of Mana. Oops! But I still had tons of fun and yeah, there are some parts that are infuriating if you don't have a strategy guide (the German version came with one, and I at least didn't encounter any bugs while playing, so I guess our version was patched?).
But playing while abusing the alchemy-system was what was the most fun: I could just not stop collecting, buying, and using alchemy-stuff. Especially that weird fist-spell ended up killing even the final boss. I was so ower-powered it was ludicrous. Everything just smashed by a huge fist from the sky and 90+ of each ingredient.
I'd never have thought someone would try to play the game without constantly using magic, that feels painful, ouch.
I used some magic towards the end of the game, especially heals and buffs, but offensive stuff I barely touched. It's cool to know that there's a few spells that really pack a punch (pun intended) and I think another issue I had was knowing what to focus on. There were so many offensive spells and I didn't really elaborate on it much in the video, but I had no idea which ones I'd need. Would I fight something with elemental properties and benefit from an element-based spell? Should I just go for a strong physical magic attack that wasn't tied to any elements and hope it'd be good? It seemed like a big gamble to pick something randomly and hope it'd see me through... but those are all first-time playthrough problems I guess.
@@hungrygoriya yeah, a lot of those problems were kind of tapered over I feel, by our version coming with a strategy guide inside. Like, it means for most of the game (later chapters like the medieval one were woefully short, probably for the better, Secret of Mana's strategy guide revealed everything up to detailed maps of the final dungeon, and Lufia II's strategy guide was not much better) I already knew where to go to pick up the best spells and components.
Like the fist-spell, if you don't already know that the game follows the Mana-model of making spells both stronger and changing their graphics to look it, you'd just go "ugh, this spell just drops a tiny fist, what a let-down" and then never use it again.
Another thing that most players would be lost at the first time through is the market mechanics. If you have the strategy guide and a community posting tricks like mad to your favorite gaming magazine, you get lots of items, equipment and also filthy, filthy rich by using them. I have no idea how a player would ever know this without many hours of experimenting.
(It probably also didn't help that I'm someone really bad at finding their way. In many RPGs, even if I had a clear map of where to go, I managed to get massively overleveled simply by constantly running down the wrong path and feeling compelled to kill everything I saw. In a Mana-like game like Evermore, this means your power spirals out of control due to the amount of magic, weapon and character EXP you drown in. Eventually, nothing will stop you.)
I love how the German strategy guide (the one for Secret of Mana, as well) came with a big red stripe on the cover reading "Achtung! Wer dieses Buch verliert, ist verloren!"
Translation: "Caution! He who loses this book is lost/doomed!"
:D
@@Kuchenwurst Oh nooooo... I bet a guide really helps with this game.
My first play through in 1995 at 13 years old was the same - magic seemed very weak and I didn’t use much
On second playthru I grinded it more and found it to be pretty awesome
Some spells were just bad though
christmas 1996
SoE is wrapped under the christmas tree.
Everytime my mom takes the dog for a walk i open the gift, play it for 15 minutes and re-wrap the box.
The game may not be perfect, even flawed at some points.
But the memories are priceless.
So sneaky!!!
Back in the day I played Secret of Evermore all the way to just before you move on to the last level, which I think was outer space. Anyways, you talk to this dude and give him something, then you're supposed to get on a ship and go onto the next stage. Instead of doing that, after I gave him the item I exited the building and explored around a bit, then went back in. Dude asked for the item again, I couldn't go on without it. So I backtrack to where I found it... not there. Looked all over, had to resort to calling the Nintendo hotline and basically the game counselor told me I was screwed, I'd discovered a glitch. All these years later still bugs me I didn't beat it.
Oh nooooooo... I know exactly what you're talking about and it sucks that the item just despawns forever. I'm sorry that happened. I hate leaving things undone as well so I can imagine how frustrating that feels.
The same thing happened to me when I was a kid and it was my first time playing too. Ha ha ha ha ha. It's nice to know that others got to experience that bug too.
That's sad.
There are some games you just have to give up on & not beat.
Unless you could throwing the controller at it.
Luckily, we can watch walkththoughs of just about any game now.
There is an item, I think it is a gauge that does something like that, and if I recall you end up picking a duplicate of an items near raptors to fix it. It isn’t the item you need and it is the same gourd you got the other item from. I don’t know if this is the bug you are talking about though.
There's a lot about Secret of Evermore I love in terms of game design. It makes a game out of so many otherwise routine interactions - from shopping for the best bargains in the marketplace to hunting for ingredients with your dog to hiding so many little secrets and alchemy formulas in almost every area - and it complements the maze style of the dungeons and world very well. If every nook and cranny hides a secret, and every little detail can hide some kind of clue, you become trained very quickly to learn that there's a reward for poking away at every little thing. It's wonderful design in that way.
But the game is clearly unfinished. The sheer number of glitches and game breaking bugs alone is frankly unacceptable. Hell the first time I played it as a kid I triggered two separate glitches that preventing me from progressing. But not only that, the game's combat becomes less balanced the further you go in and the size of the worlds and the secrets within drops as you progress through each world. This is a game that definitely could use the modern Square treatment of sprucing up their old SNES games for a Switch remake - or even just rerelease. Fix the glitches and add a little bit more/rebalance the second half and you'd have something worth playing. This will never happen though, so the game will remain an odd curiosity, with everything interesting about it overshadowed by its blatant flaws as it's slowly forgotten as it remains confined to the SNES.
I appreciate your perspective on the exploration stuff. You're right in that there's lots to find and uncover and I did enjoy that, at least when I could find the item I was trying to pick up.
The game does feel a bit unfinished in many ways. The glitches I mentioned only required a reset, but I did lose quite a bit of time running back parts of the game I'd already been through to make up for it. I couldn't agree more that Secret of Evermore could use a remake. There are so many little quality of life things to bring to the equation along with fixing the glitches you mentioned.
@@hungrygoriya Oh yes, thankfully the game is fairly generous with its save points. Assuming you know you got glitched anyway...
I will say that any rebalance would need to overhaul the entire combat as well too, which I agree is also a low point of the game. Speaking of the FuSoYa patch you mentioned I did play a balance hack for this game about a year ago which added features like shared experience points for linked weapons and spells and rebalanced the stat distribution for enemies and the dog. And that did help reduce the grind to encourage experimenting with different abilities and weapons while keeping the difficulty up. But, as you mentioned, you still have the tediously slow weapon combat, just now with enemies that can potentially kill you. Which actually ended up making the end game worse. There's a reason even Trials of Mana, with its much, *much* faster combat, still moved away from the ring system for its remake. So Evermore would need something else to fix its action RPG combat.
Secret of Evermore is one of my favorite RPGS of all time. I am, in no way, hating on your opinion. I actually find it incredibly interesting to hear your perspective. Just having experienced this gem cements your pedigree as a cultured gamer, in my opinion.
It makes me happy to know that so many people have fond memories of this one. I really wish I'd gotten on with it better, but it is what it is! And thanks for your kindness, by the way. I appreciate it!
I loved the market. I think its important to understand that back in the days when this game was new, people didnt have the internet and gamefaqs and such, and people did NOT take for granted a 100% have everything approach to gaming. So every item you got from the market, which again was optional, felt like a really special thing you earned and cherished that you could brag to yourself about knowing other plebs didnt do it (and many didnt).
Feeling obligated to get them all however, I could see it as a massive wall of work just slopped in the middle of the game.
Well, going around the market and learning what was at each booth and then seeing them described in the manual was the main draw for me. No guide necessary! I wanted all the boosts and buffs.
I wonder how much different the back half of the game would've felt if I'd left some or all of them behind. I know that some of them are apparently bugged anyway.
I feel that a lot of the reasons why players struggle with this game so much, is that they are lacking critical need-to-know information, and true, a game should tell you these things, but... if you go into the game knowing them... then you will get a much better experience. I can offer a few tips right off the bat:
The game really wants you to do hit-and-run tactics, and you are supposed to choose what enemies you will fight, and which are simply not worth fighting. Also, enemies are meant to have different weaknesses and timing in their attacks. The flying skulls you mentioned? You will always want to use spells on those. In fact, the first time you encounter them is right after you get a spell called Crush. Killing the skulls awards you with more money than it takes to buy the reagents for Crush, and the Skulls are actually weak against that spell (and so are their stronger brothers later in the hedge maze) so there's an infinite money/ludicrously powerful spell levelup exploit to take advantage of, if you know it exists.
All flying enemies are hard to hit with melee attacks because, well, they fly. Picture yourself holding a stick, and picture a bat flying in to bite your ears and picture how hard it would be to actually hit that bat by swinging at it. It would be fairly difficult and you'd have to time it just right.
Spears are difficult to use, because they are more meant to be a thrown weapon. Swords' Lv2 charge is ludicrously powerful, downright OP even.
If you know what enemies to kill, what to avoid and run past, the game is much more fun. Also, knowing what to grind on is also a huge help.
I plan on doing a playthrough of it sometime on my channel, or at least a few tips videos because I feel a lot of people end up in your shoes, they like the aesthetics, sound, but struggle with the gameplay. Once you figure it out, though, it's quite fun!
Perhaps one day if I ever do cover the game.. maybe you might take a look at it. Or not, either way.
This would be a great resource for people. You're right: the game doesn't really fill you in on very much in this sense. When you know it, you know it and it pays off for you but when you don't? Struggle-fest!
@@hungrygoriya Yeah, I will say that I struggled a lot, and I wanted to learn its secrets and after several playthroughs, I discovered things that made the game secretly awesome!
Crush for the win, baby! I think credit for crush goes to Rick Saenz
@@mazthespaz1 Crush is so awesome, you get it at the start of Chapter 2, but it is easily powerful enough to last until the space station, in fact Crush if you level it up will womp that silly rat boss in like 30 seconds and you can keep him locked down to where he can only use a spell or two in return. Pretty sure a level 9 crush will do 400+ damage to pretty much anything in the game, it's just once you get to the space station, thanks to the ammo bug, you get infinite best ammo for the bazooka, you don't need Crush by then. Then, once you get Energize and the Lv3 neutron blade... you won't need the bazooka either. Add in Horace's invincibility spell and the last boss is an utter joke.
I barely remember using weapons to attack, because I think I just cheesed the heck out of Alchemy. There was a fight I had no idea how to complete, so I levelled up a skill (that involved a fist falling from the sky, Crush?) from Lv0 to like, Lv15, and then I could one-hit KO almost anything from there on
Interesting! So you went all in on one spell and it worked out well then? I put all my eggs in the weapons basket and struggled immensely!
Same here, it was just the Crush show until you got that end game spell that instantly charged your attack bar, then you could throw Laser Lances 24/7.
Weapons skills suck because 1) the enemy has attack priority over you 2) you have to wait for a meter to fill up to do a meaningful attack 3) you had to kill 100 or 200 things before you can leave up your weapon and you get a new weapon LONG before you get to level 2 let alone 3 4) each weapon has to be separately mastered you never become good with swords, just good with each particular sword i.e. once you get the Bronze Spear you don't get the exp you got from the Bone Spear, so you have to train weapons all over again. 5) Throwing the Big Damn Rock Hard Ball/Crush is cheaper and more effective time and money wise than taking 10-15 seconds to charged up a fancy anime move. 6) There is no elemenal rock/paper/scissors just spam what does the most damage for the least money 6) it takes about 20-30 minutes to level a formula to level 5 and it's viable for the rest of the game, Crush and Fireball from Nobilia gives you 150 castings which can carry you through gothica unless you get hopelessly lost, then failing that there is Lance, Sting, and even Flash if you didn't find any of those. 7) paused damage 8) You get 6 beads per Evermore leader (Horace can give you 12) plus whatever Call Beads you find is more than enough to cheese bosses in seconds. 9) Combat becomes much less after you Finish Gothica, as it's mostly fetch quests and puzzles.
Weapons only become viable at the final boss location as you get Energize right before you do the final boss, in which leveling up the Future Weapons in prehistoria takes 5 minutes and the last encounter Alchemy damage sucks (the last enemy takes 1/64 Alchemy Damage, while spamming level 3 sword break the 999 barrier) but support effects like Hypnosis and Disrupt work wonders.
Sorry to hear you had a bad time, this is one of my all time favorite RPGs from the SNES era. Alchemy is actually completely broken in this game, if you find some of the good formulas and start spamming them, you can kill all enemies and bosses without ever swinging a sword. Also, I remember when I was a teen, I would replay through this game just to get to the market section and play out all the trading, I know most people hate it, but I totally loved it :D
I wish I'd felt more confident to try alchemy. I saw the weapons as a free way to get through the game until I could save up some cash, and by the time I had a good chunk of change, I could throw a spear and never really looked back at the alchemy.
I honestly can't see what people love so much about the market, but I'm glad you like it haha... you'd be the friend I'd pass the controller off to for that part while I went to make a snack. It would be a balanced friendship!
The trading in the market was one of my favorite parts also. Many fond memories of this game
The market was the best it's so satisfying getting the egg two times and the other stuff devils rope etc
I could only play 30 min per day as a child, so the long mazes were very stressful for me. But that actually contributed to the global experience.
Boy… if you didn't like this game, you'd probably _hate_ the game it inspired by. But, let me address some of the things you pointed out:
- The intro cutscene was a stylistic choice. _The Secret of Monkey Island_ does a very similar gag during the first part of the game where the character describes a ton of things that are going on in another room the player can't see. It's kind of a throwback to the old "stuck in the dark" cartoon cliché.
- The power bar charging for melee attacks is kind of a variation on the "active time battle" system introduced in _Final Fantasy IV._ The idea behind it is to make combat more strategic. Instead of being forced to take hits like in more traditional RPGs, you can dodge about while waiting for your power meter to charge up or while over-charging your attack manually. It can be tedious or boring for people who prefer to just beat the hoo-hah out of enemies, but when played correctly, it can be pretty interesting.
- Alchemy is a huge part of the gameplay experience. By choosing not to use it due to "lack of resources", you kind of locked yourself out of a very handy and helpful part of the game. It's even nicer when you realize there's a multi-cast bug you can do which makes spells incredibly powerful.
- The bugs with The Dog are exactly that: bugs. Trust me, it's not just you that experienced The Dog teleporting or sniffing in the wrong place.
- The trading sequence was intentionally convoluted because, ya know, bartering. I imagine that it was intended to be something unique for the player to experience, and while I personally enjoyed it, I can understand how it's not for everyone.
I very strongly disagree with a lot of this review. It's not just nostalgia glasses speaking, either - I played through about half of this game a couple years ago, again, and still enjoyed it. In fact, I think I enjoyed it even more with the camera fix patch I made for the thing. I'd like to see your stream of this and see exactly what got under your skin, and maybe I should stream it, myself.
Between the soundtrack from Jeremy Soule of _The Elder Scrolls_ fame, to the charming characters, to the unique locations, and yes, even the gameplay, I very much enjoyed this game. It was a small part of my childhood, and a small part of my adulthood. And really, it's just a nice, unique action RPG.
Also, the US commercial for this is freaking wild. Hee hee.
Thanks for your thoughtful comments here. I can agree to disagree with you since not everything's going to appeal to everyone, but I will add this: I think this game really benefits from subsequent playthroughs. Once you know what works and get the hang of a few different aspects like the alchemy, knowing where you can buy different ingredients later on etc., you can really strategize and make the most out of all the systems the game presents you with. On a first playthrough, I found it to be far too open with too little guidance, and I constantly worried about putting my time into something that would eventually become obsolete and end up backing myself into a corner. I can see the appeal if you replay it, but I found it nightmarish for a first time playthrough using only what's in the manual as a guide.
I'm really glad you enjoyed it. A lot of people that have stopped in to leave some thoughts about the review do, and I'm definitely in the minority. I've engaged with lots of games over the years, including Final Fantasy games and the like (I adore RPGs...) and this was by far the most frustrating and unintuitive I've played. Different strokes, I guess!
And I can't say I've seen the commercial for this game. I should probably check it out sometime!
I can definitely understand most of your complaints about Secret of Evermore. It hasn't really aged that well, especially from a gameplay perspective. Like many games of its time, it doesn't respect your time. The exploration can be frustrating due to its obscure design, and the melee combat feels kind of sluggish. The alchemy system inherently discourages exploration of its spells as a lot of ingredients are hard to come by, and the fact that low level spells suck. It seems to have some depth at first, but it's effectively reduced to a few powerful spells with easy to come by ingredients that trivializes the combat after a certain number of casts.
It always was the world, atmosphere and music that made Secret of Evermore a gem. A flawed gem, but still a gem in its own right. I have heard a lot of people say that there's nothing quite like it, and it certainly has its own quirky charm. With a more fleshed out combat system and streamlined exploration; it probably could have been remembered as a great game of its time.
I've played lots of stuff from this era and this game just pushed me beyond my patience limit. I don't mind grinding when I can actually hit enemies. I don't mind magic systems when I can use them without worrying about the number of casts constantly.
I agree with you about the world and the characters/story. They're pretty special, and especially among many games that are set in other worlds, this one hits nice and close to home and resonated with me.
Interesting. This was one of my favorites for the snes and I didn't have any problems with the combat. I made use of alchemy when I could, and even though the limited resources made for some sense of anxiety, it didn't really detract from the experience. Perhaps this is one of those examples that doesn't fit well with today's standards in video games
I'm already hesitant to spend consumables that I can buy with money at regular intervals in other games, so this system of "sniff it out" or "wait 3 more game areas before you can buy ingredients for your favourite spell again" was very anxiety-inducing for me. I levelled up most of my weapons and once I had a thrown weapon things were a little better combat-wise, but yeah... I wish I liked this one more.
You really had to use what it gave you. Hoarding is a maladaption. I loved this game; it wasn't frustrating at all, but I used alchemy freely.
@@asafoetidajones8181 I guess spending ingredients left and right felt reckless to me in a first playthrough. I'm glad you had a great time with this though!
it's a frustrating game to finish today, but as a bored kid in the 90s with no internet you could immerse yourself for hours on end. especially milking that market dry was a fun weekend spent.
that's oldschool difficulty. some games took forever to figure out, or were feindishly tough in all the wrong ways. :D
Oh totally. I had my handful of games I was a bored kid with back then too and got to know them inside and out.
I feel like this game leans more to the latter statement in your last sentence there... I love a challenge but this game felt a bit broken to me, especially with the close range hit detection being horrible.
I like this game and would like to find a copy for my collection some time. It is fun to explore and has a unique play. Combat is basically the same as Secret of Mana, which is one of the most beloved SNES rpg's out there. It was an early system to prevent button mashing trivializing combat. I almost never charge the attack, but I found after the first area that having your dog charge was more useful then not. At the end of the game, the dog is so powerful i had the boy set to charge and just played the dog.
Alchemy is more about picking one or two you like and sticking with them to level them. A few are very powerful but are hard to find ingrediants. Others ingrediants are everywhere, so you level them to make powerful instead. I never had a problem with the dog locations either. Did you emulate this? Maybe the image is slightly stretched and the pixels are distorted playing on a modern flat screen.
I wish this game got a remaster.
I'm glad you enjoyed your time with this game. I found the only way I was able to hit enemies for most of the game was charging and throwing the spear. And by end game, you're right: the dog's a beast! I just didn't feel very supported by him at the beginning.
I think my main issue was not really knowing what to pick to work on for alchemy, and being worried about "wasting" ingredients on spells that might not be useful later.
I didn't emulate it. I have the game and played it on original hardware on a CRT. I don't know why it was so hard to find the ingredients or connect with enemies, but I definitely struggled with a lot of this game.
@@hungrygoriya The game got mixed reviews when it released also, so you are just in the half that didn;t like it as much. The common sentiment was "lost potential" in the old reviews. It is one of those games with a group of players that love it and a group that wouldn't play it twice.
I love "The Secret of Evermore." It's one of my favorite games from the 1990s. It's difficult to specify exactly why, but it had that certain quality --- atmosphere.
The atmosphere and writing was really good here. I just wish the combat felt a bit better!
@@hungrygoriya Thanks for the reply. Yes, I do agree that the combat could've been better. If I recall correctly, it was the hit detection that was off, as was the case with its cousin game, Secret of Mana. Nonetheless, I still enjoyed my experience playing through The Secret of Evermore, and then I played it entirely through again in the early 2000s.
Secret of Evermore has been an underrated gem. Some blame the game for Secret of Mana 2 (Seiken Densetsu 3) not releasing in the US, but today, you can play both games. Yeah, there are a few bugs in the game, but emulation today, pretty much resolves anything.
The music is done by Jeremy Soule, the first game he did video game music for. In other words, the person who later made the music for amazing games like Skyrim.
It didn't click with me personally. I did play it after Secret of Mana, but I never went in expecting Secret of Evermore to be Secret of Mana. I just didn't enjoy a lot of what it put out there. I honestly think Evermore would benefit from a replay down the line now that I know where to find certain spells and what to expect from alchemy, but I'm just not interested in playing it again.
@@hungrygoriya One thing nice with many of the older SNES games (especially if going through emulators) is that some individuals have hacked and balanced the game. I think with Evermore, there have been those that have tweaked/improved the AI, fixed various bugs, introduced two-player mode, and even made it easier to level up certain spells.
I was present for virtually all your time livestreaming this game, and while I acknowledge I wasn't following gameplay closely, I fully recall the vibe of those streams. When people would ask how you were enjoying the game, your words said you were still having fun playing through it, even during the latter streams, but the tone of your voice said otherwise. It felt to me as if you were giving the game every chance to win you over, even deep into the adventure, but it never quite managed to do so.
I am glad to see you pour your heart out here after some reflection, and give us your true and full opinion, even if it disagrees with some other people's equally valid experiences with this game. I'd much rather see you wearing your heart on your sleeve than diluting your views so as not to upset anyone. I've always taken your reviews to be summaries of your personal experiences with each game, rather than trying to objectively rank and evaluate them in a cold, sterile way.
Whatever criticisms some dedicated fans of this game may have here about your playthrough and this review, I can vouch that you gave this game every opportunity to endear itself to you. Secret of Evermore just wasn't for you, as it turned out, and you've clearly explained the reasons for that.
I think you've really hit the nail on the head here, my friend. I stuck it out for the folks in the stream chat that love this game and wanted to see it through, but also to give the game a chance to get better or for something to click. It just never did. I'm sad because I really like to come away from a game feeling good about it, knowing that I gave it my best first time experience but... yeah. It just wasn't for me.
SO MANY MAZES in this game, and none of them are fun. They all felt like work. I absolutely love this review. You're spot on about the combat and how infuriatingly often you just miss your target. I had some particular gripes about how the character grips the spear at the blade, using it more like a dagger at very close range. Furthermore, leveling weapons seemed meaningless since as soon as your weapon becomes a decent level, you get a new weapon, and those weapon levels don't carry over to other similar weapons. Getting to max level with the first sword doesn't give you any weapon levels for the later swords you get?
Plus, I hated the main character so much.
In summation, all this game has is its quirky writing and whimsical sense of humor, which... wasn't really my style anyway. Was not thrilled with this game.
I played it in tandem with a fellow streamer named MegaHarv (we did a Tag Team Live Stream where we essentially handed the controller off every hour) and we had fun with it despite how bad this game was.
I hear ya: weapons did feel obsolete pretty soon after getting them (I think I remember getting two new ones back to back but ended up using them both anyway)... I stuck mainly with the spear since I could throw it and all future iterations I got were my go-to. Functionally, that was what suited my play style best!
I'm glad I at least liked the story bits and the characters. And that's a cool idea about the tag-team stream. I did that with a friend a few times for some password-based games, and we would stream it on different nights on our respective channels.
@@hungrygoriya OMG you’ve done a Tag Team Live Stream?? Is there anywhere I can watch it?
@@KarmaJolt It's one of the rare stream vods I have up. The other player is TheRenesance, who I met online through his mutual love of Faxanadu. We also did this with The Guardian Legend a few years later, but I don't have a video for that playthrough. ruclips.net/video/Wxu-Uf_p-Lc/видео.html
I know the game can have some pretty hefty flaws, but it being your worst time on the SNES? That seems pretty harsh. Personally I always absolutely adored the athmosphere in this game, the music and ambient sounds were a huge part of it and it fascinated me how the SNES was able to make it sound so "realistic." And being someone that played a whole lot of SoM, I was used to the hitboxes of that combat system. Alchemy and charged attacks are key to getting quick kills (especially setting it for the dog attacks). Your issues with the currency are perfectly valid, tho. It sucks that they made this interesting magic system and made it so cumbersome to use, it needs loads of grinding but - can reward you with spells that can be extremely effective against certain enemy types. The market is absolutely infamous for a reason, yes. But it also rewards your tenacity with permanent passive massive buffs. I know you usually play these game as raw as possible, but looking up a guide for that one is totally okay. Anyway, my hope of this game getting a remake/remaster someday that fixes the most obvious stuff prevails.
I wouldn't have put it in the thumbnail if I didn't mean it. I had such a hard time with this one for all the reasons I mentioned, and I was itching to get through the back end of the game after the market because I was pretty frustrated with it. I think the alchemy system is awesome, but I really wish that I hadn't needed to feel so worried about spending out my consumables with no way of knowing when I could buy more. I do think this game has some great aspects, but fundamentally it felt a little broken to me.
And you're absolutely right: a guide here would've eased my experience with it, but that's not how I roll with a first-time playthrough. There isn't enough replay value here for me to try it again, unfortunately. I may watch someone else play it through sometime just to see how it's done "right", but this was more than enough for me!
Arcana I remember being pretty tough, it made me feel like I was working a job. I have never felt such terror leaving one of the strip mall like towns.
@@hicknopunk I have yet to play Arcana but I'm definitely curious to try it. I love a good first person perspective dungeon crawler.
@@hungrygoriya 🤣🤣 I love Wizardry, I wanted to love Arcana. Arcana has made me more afraid trees and rocks than anyother RPG. The battle RNG is nuts, healing spells cost too much mana. You cannot go back in the game and grind. If one character dies, it is just game over. Few save points. Dependence on "cards" to do anything useful.
I still rented it a 2nd 3 days to beat it 🤣
@@hicknopunk Oh goodness... I'm in for a wild ride then!
On the fly strategy, the bazaar, mazes, the absolute bliss that is the soundtrack and the stunner graphics. It seems like the features that make this game a flawed masterpiece to so many people, myself included, just hit you badly. New coaster? Damn. Sell it to someone who will cherish this rare gem of an snes classic.
Saying they hit me badly pretty much sums it up. Like a good knock to the side of the head.
And I was kidding about it becoming a coaster. It'll just hang out in its box in case I decide to give it another try again way down the line.
I understand that. Not every game is for everyone. Your points are valid, I just can't relate at all. Your knock upside the noggin was my favorite snes title. Just glad it's not a coaster, thank you Goriya
Ohhhhh this game, I remember renting it as a kid, getting to the first boss...and getting stunlocked against the back wall of the boss's arena as he constantly spammed some kind of knockback ability that did about 1-2 damage, and I got to watch my entire health bar fade away bit by bit without ever getting to control my character. And then trying it again in my 20s in college and getting to the magic tutorial, going "I need items for magic?" and tossing it in the trash immediately. Seems I dodged two bullets! Props to my dad for actually beating it the whole way through, it was at least mildly fun to watch...but I definitely remember him getting angry more than once along the way. I just liked the silly dog forms...and that's about all I remember of the game past my experiences.
The dog changing was definitely a nice touch! Sorry you had such a terrible time with this game.
Not every game is for everyone, it is fine if you didn't like this one. You definitely hamstrung yourself by not engaging with the alchemy though.
When I played it many years back, the alchemy system was what kept me engaged. Hunting ingredients and leveling all of my spells as high as I could made combat easy and exploring worthwhile.
I think if I hadn't had so much anxiety about running out of stuff and not having a way to find more in early game, I would've used it a lot more. The game gave me no confidence in that, unfortunately. For the heal spell, I walked around with 16 casts of it for at least two areas of the game without finding any more ingredients or having an opportunity to buy them. I just worked on the weapons instead, and combat turned out to be pretty unfun until I got my hands on the thrown spear.
@@hungrygoriya The thing is, alchemy reagents in the wild respawn and shops always sell reagents. Maybe not the reagents you want, but they'll always give you something that is adjascently useful. You don't actually ever run out, and that was an assumption you made going into it that put you off engaging with a major feature of the game. It's like saying you hate playing chess because you always lose, but you refuse to move any pieces besides pawns because you were anxious you'd put them somewhere you couldn't protect. You might have hated the game, but you didn't really play it.
@@Zetimenvec Are you sure all ingredients respawn? I specifically remember going back to see if they did and my dog did not sniff in most spots again.
And I'll say this again here: if the game intended for the alchemy system to be such a prominent and important feature, they should've put more emphasis on it. Why present the whole game as a wide open experience that you can play in multiple ways if the magic was really what they felt was necessary to have a good experience? I don't know... other games at least strike a balance of magic and physical combat and don't force you into one or the other. And they're usually both at least effective, and usually compliment and enhance different legs of the game. We can agree to disagree here, but I definitely played this game the way I thought made the most sense for my play style and got punished for not buying into a system I didn't want to use.
They DID put a lot of emphasis on it, that's why alchemy was the solution to almost every single puzzle in the game. It's why more then half of the hidden items and rewards were alchemy. It's why it was the weakness of every boss and how you killed all the flying monsters of every time period.
Yes, you only had 16 charges of the heal spell, the one you'd been using since the start of the game. There were by then three heal spells that you were meant to be swapping between based on what drops were in the region. So you didn't have enough to cast cure. You probably had piles of the items needed for regen and heal. Or maybe you were in the one place where life drain was the spell to use.
@@ICountFrom0 I did eventually use the stronger healing alchemy at the end game, as well as a few buffs, only when I finally had money and finally had access to the reagent shops to go back and buy what I needed. At that point, I'd already sunk time into levelling weapons and just threw the spear until the end of the game.
I take your point though, there is an emphasis on it. But in addition to finding new alchemy and ingredients for most secrets, you also find weapons, you can also level those weapons, and the alchemy required for puzzles doesn't work outside of those contexts (like the reveal spell). I don't disagree that I could've used alchemy a lot more, but for me in a first playthrough here, it wasn't the clearest path forward. Hindsight on a second and any subsequent playthrough is crystal clear.
This is one of my favorite experiences on the SNES, in spite of itself. The soundtrack is one of the best imo, by Jeremy Soule. I found the characters, dialogue, and story are all unique, quotable and engaging. That said, they are the reasons I replay the game. It's a headache to play for all the reasons you stated. Long mazes, annoying combat, lock outs. However there are things to know that make replaying the game much easier at points.
Like, the whirlpool in the desert outside the gates of the trading bazaar. Wait until the boy gets dizzy and sucked beneath the sand. You'll find some pots with 99 rice and 99 spice, making your trading a lot easier.
The only spells you really need are the functional ones like Revealer(and you'll only need about 5 each tops), the Heal spell, and a combat spell. Maybe Revive Dog spell. There are no elemental weakness(I think) so just pick one you like and use that. I use Hard Ball until I get Crush because it's a low casting cost. If you know this, you won't waste money on ingredients for spells you won't use and it will solve your money exchange issue.
Try and remember not to get locked out in Gothica.
Follow the paths with the owls in the branches in that one Gothica Forest.
Or just play the soundtrack
I think I'll pick your last option there for the future, but all these tips are helpful! When I play through games and review them, it's usually from my first-time experience with it. I don't use guides and just use whatever came with the game to try to get through it, but these are all great tips for subsequent playthroughs. I'm sure there are lots of things that make this game easier once you know they're there.
I think your experience is quite relatable if that was your approach. My first play was a rental and there’s so much ambient music I didn’t know how good the soundtrack was. When the SNES was dying out I picked up a copy cheap so I replayed at leisure and it grew on me years later. And I don’t think it helps when you are likely comparing it to Secret of Mana and it’s vastly superior combat.
@@discobunny4eva302 I went out of my way here not to compare directly to Mana, except to say that at least there you could replenish MP to make levelling up magic easier. I don't think it's fair to say that SoE's not SoM so it's no good.
I'm glad you got a cheap copy! I think I got mine a few years ago for about $50 complete? The box isn't in good shape, unfortunately :(
@@hungrygoriya Yeah they were just giving them away along with Populous. I didn't mean to imply that you made the comparison to SoM or that your video gave the impression because that was not my takeaway, but as a player I know I did and wouldn't be surprised if the game received that judgment due to a convenient comparison. But charging, swinging, and missing a spear shot so often is 😓 A far cry from the rush of ganging up on a Mushboom or Ice Thug with a satisfying whack.
@@discobunny4eva759 No satisfying whacks in this game! Being able to quick swap weapons would've probably pushed me to use different ones more often and then throw with the spear. I hated going into the menus to switch.
And all good! I didn't feel that you were being accusatory, but I have seen a lot of people out there say that SoE is not SoM, so it's no good. I don't think it's fair to compare the two directly, even if they're so alike! There are better ways to talk about games than always comparing them to each other!
People complain about day 1 patches on modern games, but forget that many cartridge and early CD/DVD media had plenty of bugs. That was actually a benefit of getting a translation of a jrpg a year or 2 later. All those bugs in the original were fixed for the localized versions. As for this game, I only ever played this as a weekend rental. For whatever reason, the game never resonated with me enough to ever come back to it.
Yeah, no bug fixes here! I couldn't believe how many troubles I ran into! After my first night with it, something felt off but I saw it through anyway. I'm not one to quit a game that might get better as it goes on.
My main problems with the game:
- Maze-like levels over and over again
- Ingredients for spells unevenly distributed (like Limestone only purchasable at one trader)
- Recycling of many game elements (sewers etc.)
Seems like we're largely on the same page here about some of the important parts.
It's fun to hear you, a generally positive and open-minded game reviewer, rag on this game so hard. I'm sure if I, like so many others in the comments, absolutely loved this game, I would be a little off-put by that fact -- but fortunately, I 100% agree with you. Secret of Evermore was a game I was SO looking forward to as a kid, since I enjoyed Secret of Mana a lot, but... man, even back then, as someone who legitimately enjoyed games like Deadly Towers and Super Pitfall on NES (meaning I could demonstrably put up with just about anything)... this game was just mind-numbing. I never finished it, and I think it was that very market where I finally threw in the towel and decided the game was just NOT WORTH CONTINUING.
I had all the same complaints you did, but I don't even think fixing one or two of them would've saved it for me. The map design and pacing were the worst offenders, though, by far, as there was just NO FUN to be had from exploration, and it took bloody AGES to get through ANYTHING. The reagent system was cool in concept (I also likened it to Ultima IV at the time, having fallen in love with that game on my NES not long before), but I got SO TIRED of my dog sniffing something new like, every 3 steps I took, and then me having to fumble about trying to pick it up (or ignore it, which I could never bring myself to do) -- that just piled up with the finicky combat and massive, repetitive stage designs to make the whole game the single biggest slog in all of gaming. With no catchy tunes to at least keep my ears happy while I was slowly wending my way through it, no less!
No hate to those who enjoyed Secret of Evermore, as I have a number of friends who did as well... but I've never been able to figure out HOW they enjoyed it, and that remains true to this day. Seeing this video was thus very cathartic for me. ;)
It's heartening to know that others feel the same way as me. Thanks for your comment here! I'm sorry it disappointed you too. I was hoping for so much more from Secret of Evemore :(
It's a game of its time, designed for kids. There wasn't an abundance of media like today so time wasters were kinda welcome since you probably only had that one game for month and as a kid you also have more time and patience figuring stuff out.
I have to agree with the mazes though, never was a fan of them, they were the bad kind of time wasters even back then.
I did really like the market place as a kid though, it was a fun puzzle and I wrote everything down on paper and tried to come up with the best way to get the most stuff. I'm pretty sure I didn't even get half the stuff you can get there, but still felt clever for the stuff that I DID get. You have to remember that the internet just got started at the time and that people played games on their own without looking everything up on a wiki for the 100% optimal play, so you could still feel pretty good about yourself even if you actually "played terrible".
Without nostalgia and in this time I have to agree with a lot of things you said, though I still find the verdict overly harsh.
There are lots of things in the game that are awesome and very unique, like the dog that changes the appearance appropriately to every new era, or that you have an AI companion at all that you can switch to and that can sniff out treasures. Years later Fable 2 made that the unique selling point and wrongly called it a worlds first.
There are so many themes in the game that look and feel entirely different, many with great music and/or SFX.
The alchemy system was a fresh take on magic that worked pretty good IMO, the only problem it has it that it is a bit too tedious and difficult to find ingredients for the spells, it really should have been the focus of the game and the other weapons should just have been a fallback in case you run out of spells. The writing, the humor, the charm, ... etc.
So too harsh of a verdict for a review IMO, but understandable from the personal bad experience you had with the game.
I grew up with NES and Genesis so yes, I remember the times where you only had a few games and played them to death. It's only within the last 10 years or so that I've been exploring new titles from this generation since I missed out on the SNES entirely.
There are lots of great thing about this game that I tried to highlight, much of what you mention here: the atmosphere, the music, the story, the little visual details like the dog changing etc. but I found too many of the core mechanics to be frustrating. Not being able to hit enemies with weapons and a tedious magic system was too much for me to enjoy this. I'm glad you can understand that impression from me as a first time player through this game.
My favorite part about this game is how I don't know anyone personally that dislikes it and yet all these Internet retro gaming folks keep putting out videos to explain why we shouldn't like it lol
I'm no expert on the subject by any means. This was my own personal experience. I'm glad you and all your buddies are a fan of this one!
Sounds like this beach just sucked at the game. Secret of evermore had maybe 7 play through when I was a kid. I played through as an adult a few years back and it held up.
Hands down one of my favorite games for the SNES. Actually having to use the alchemy system to level it up was super rewarding and I never felt like I was too poor or too ingredient starved. Granted I do enjoy some casual grinding in my games. Sad to see someone not connecting with what I feel is a classic overlooked game. I beat this game once every couple years. :/
I'm very stingy with consumables, so it's probably a me problem more than anything else. I had a hard time parting ways with my ingredients because I just didn't know when I'd find more of them. I think I went through the first few areas of the game clinging to the stuff to cast heal spells because I was scared to run out of the healing items I bought and not have a backup in some of the harder enemy and boss fights. It just set me up to lack confidence in the system going forward.
I'm really glad you like it! There are lots of people here who adore it, and my first-time experience won't line up with everyone else's. I really wanted to like this more and I'm very sad that I couldn't connect with it.
I'm in the middle of replaying it, and I can say with complete certainty, you played the game *wrong* .
First off, short, fast attacks is not how you want combat to work. There's actually more overall down-time when you do that, and you will deal less damage for two 100% charged attacks, compared to one level 2 charge. You can also release a partial charge at any time, so there's no downtime from landing a hit between 100% and 150% charge.
You cite Secret of Mana as a positive example of the same mechanics done right, but they are worse off in just about every aspect. SOM doesn't let you change directions while running, and you slow to a *crawl* when you walk around with a pre-charged meter. SoE lets you run around at full speed while charged. In fact, you can infinitely run if you fully charge your meter to 300% before holding the A button down.
I saw your heal spell in the Diamond Eyes statute fight, and that was clearly your problem there for why the game was such a drag. If you had been using your heal spell at all up until that point, you probably would have been restored to full HP with that one cast. 40HP is what you get from it when it's level 0-1. Because of the problems you were having with combat, you weren't making any money, and so you had nothing to buy your alchemy ingredients with. I ALWAYS buy 99 of every ingredient that a merchant sells, and have plenty of cash left over for armor. Those healing items you kept blowing your cash on almost never get used if you're doing things right. SoM required you to run back to inns to restore your mana, so it was hardly a positive example by comparison. Being able to convert your cash to "MP" in this game was a good design choice, but you decided that you didn't want to earn money while playing.
You may have had more cash if you set your dog to be more aggressive, and let him get the kills until his attack is level 2 or 3. Then you set his charge level to 2 (3 for bosses) and you'll never need to do much more than dodge or heal. You should always be good to offer supporting fire with a thrown spear if you can manage it.
Now the actual bad:
Bugmuck SUUUUUCKS. I don't disagree for a second there. It's a very rough way to get you into the game, but after you get over that hump, the game gets a LOT easier.
Yeah, playing it again, I see a lot of bugs, and over the years, I've seen most of the ones you pointed out, and probably more. Hell, there's a main quest area that you can simply skip because the game forgets to check for completion on it.
Hit boxes on flying enemies is always bad. The bees in SoM are awful too. You should use alchemy on them. A medium powered flare spell on the flying skulls was usually enough to deal like 250 damage to all on the screen and delete them from your life. Trying anything melee other than a thrown spear is going to get you the results you showed off.
So yeah. There's few games on the SNES I'd rather play MORE than Secret of Evermore!
I don't think I ever used short attacks less than 100%. I didn't charge up my weapons beyond level 1 usually, but I'd wait for them to be charged 100% before attacking. Otherwise, what's the point?
I don't think I actually mentioned SoM's fighting being any better. I said the magic system afforded you the convenience of being able to replenish MP for magic, but SoM's fighting's just as bad as it is here. I didn't like it any better when I played that game.
I hear you: I really struggled with the combat here so I didn't have any money to buy much at all except the equipment. I don't know what it was about the hit detection, but things did at least improve when I got my hands on the thrown spear. That was quite a ways into the game though, and by then, I'd gotten by with physical attacks and decided to stick with those instead of starting to level up the alchemy at that point. I found money really hard to come by in the early game, but that might've also just been a me problem. I'm not sure why I struggled with the physical stuff so much. I played on a CRT with no input lag.
Bugmuck was no fun. The forest also had me turned around for a long time, though someone told me there are some great visual tells for whether or not you're on the right track. Lots of this game is probably improved on a subsequent playthrough, but I just didn't enjoy myself enough to give it a second play.
It was frustrating enough to land at the bottom of my list, at least for now. I'm sure I'll run into worse things as I go, but it's down there with Breath of Fire for the time being. I'll be sure to update everyone here if I ever do come around and play it again with the knowledge I have from fumbling through the first time.
@@hungrygoriya "I don't think I ever used short attacks less than 100%. I didn't charge up my weapons beyond level 1 usually, but I'd wait for them to be charged 100% before attacking. Otherwise, what's the point?"
Yeah, that's the crux of my whole post, because this is how you played it wrong. You're supposed to charge to 200% and 300% when the option is available to you. So you didn't kill enemies, you didn't get money, and you didn't get to buy "MP" for your magical powers. Everything falls apart if you can't kill things!
So I've been playing this game periodically since it came out, so I am definitely biased towards it. This current playthough I decided to challenge myself, and only use the alchemy ingredients I find, rather than ever buying anything from a vendor. I *have* to use those healing items I said I never used (let me tell you, the rat king was an awful boss without alchemy!). Despite that limitation, I'm still having fun because weapons charged up that far deal enough damage fast enough to carry me through the game with little resistance. I just have to grind a bit, but I can do that lazily by letting the AI control the kid in an enemy-dense area.
And yeah, forest maze sucks too, but there's nothing there to kill you.
@@hungrygoriya Oh, and I wanted to add that when I say "You're playing it wrong!" I don't mean that with any sort of combative tone. Reading it in text may add that implication.
I've played many games wrong over my life. One great example was the original Deus Ex. Took me 10 years of periodically trying it when people would remind me it was supposed to be a good game. Could never get into it, until one day I tried it again and it just _clicked_ . It was a fantastic game, but I had been playing it wrong the whole time because my expectations were very different.
Evermore may not be the game for you, but if you ever did try it again, I strongly suggest you put a lot more effort into charged attacks, because the entire gameplay is based around dealing those out.
@@signa8 It did come off a little brash, but I'm not hurt by it. I know a lot of folks really love this game, so it's hard to parse out context from text, as you've said. We're good though!
And if I ever do get around to it again, I will definitely approach it differently. I've also heard great things about Deux Ex... you have me worried now, haha
@@hungrygoriya Here's the pitfalls I fell into with Deus Ex if you ever get around to playing it: Min/max HARD. I diversified my skills, and that was a mistake, because they aren't useful at early levels. Also, I'm a HUGE fan of the Thief games, and I expected the stealth to act a bit like a sci-fi version of Thief. It's not at all like Thief's stealth, and it's got a very unique flavor of dumb AI for you to work your way around and figure out what gets you busted or ignored.
Once I managed my expectations on those aspects, and worked around them, the game blew me away, even a decade after its release.
Where is your livestream of this game? I don't see it on Twitch.
It's long gone by now. Vods over there only save for two months.
@@hungrygoriya but don't you want everyone to see it eventually, every part of it and time?
@@crystalwater505 I try to keep the livestreams live and this channel separate for the most part. Since I don't have chat up on screen when I stream (or anything really other than the game and my voice) there's not a lot of context when I'm speaking to people, and I don't think it makes for good viewing. I have them locally on my computer though.
@@hungrygoriya Ah I see. Do you think livestreams are only really valuable when it's live since people are communicating with you at that time rather than if it's being seen as a vod on a later date?
@@crystalwater505 Not in general, but in my case yes. If it was just me playing without speaking to a chat it might be better, but as-is, I don't think it's very entertaining.
I tried hard to enjoy this one, but after slogging through the muck for about 30 hours, I simply moved on. The game did have some good things working in its favor. However, the alchemy system left me frustrated and irate. I just felt like I shouldn’t have to try that hard to squeeze a little enjoyment from a game. My favorite part of the game was when I explored one of the towns and actually ran across Cecil and Rosa from Final Fantasy IV. :)
Another thorough and detailed review. I thought to myself a couple of days ago that I had not seen any new videos from Hungry Goriya lately. It’s refreshing to get the notification!
I'm pretty sure the FFIV bits were my favourite parts as well. But yeah, everything else felt far too much like trouble than fun.
Secret of Evermore is my all-time favorite SNES title, but it's not perfect and it IS an acquired taste:
The Good:
1. The combat system is rewarding for people who, like me, like to fight smarter as opposed to harder.(Part of the reason I love Soulsborne games so much.)
2. The Alchemy system was really fun to experiment with and the fact that you needed to be sparing with them lead to a more tactical approach to using magic.
3. The sound and visual design of this game is stellar(the OST was composed by the mighty Geoff Follin) and the Dark ambience mixed with that campy mid-nineties humor makes this game really stand out amidst it's contemporaries.
The Bad:
1. It's level design leaves so much to be desired. the dungeons suffer from some serious Phantasy Star 2 syndrome.
2. As you stated, the hit detection is way off and it's buggier than an aphid ranch.
3. The currency system was cumbersome, especially when you'd find a recipe in later worlds like Gothica nad Omnitropia that required ingredients like Wax and Clay and whoops, back I go to Nobilia and Prehistoria to run some more errands.
The Ugly:
AAAAARRRRGH! The market sequence gives me som 'nam style flashbacks everytime this game enters my conciousness. You know how when you think back on a game that you grew up with/haven't played in a while, your first thought is usually along the lines of "Oh yeah, I remember that game; I should play it again." but you can bet dollars to donuts that the immediate follow-up to that thought is always"Oh, I'm going to have to deal with THAT section again..."? Yeah, That's what this is like. Thank god it's mostly optional but still, there is a reason why Nobilia is the worst part of the game.
EDIT: Me spel gud.
Idk, I never had issues with money or alch items for the super basic/hyper abusive spells. Heal and Crush was all I needed as Crush spamming anything that moved (including bosses) = ggez if I didn't want to bother with a fight at all.
Heck, where ya get the spell and buy the items to use it are close to an area with mobs that pay you well for spamming them with it.
After level 5 crush, it pays for its self to be used as its 1 shoting all the mobs right by the alch item sales dood.
@@Xanthro2 True, you don't NEED most alchemy spells in the game, but I love experimenting with new items, equipment and spells when I get them in games. Different strokes, I guess.
@@RedAsTheFire indeed :D
I did have an unfair advantage with my uncle teaching me abit about the game my first time threw though.
"Use just these 2 spells, and you will never have issues ever".
He also did the market place for me. When I played the game later, I never bothered with the market as Crush obliterates everything.
I guess for me, the waiting in combat just felt too slow. I think I said exactly your sentiments here: if you enjoy the tactical side of strategizing in combat like this, then it's great. I just felt I couldn't hit stuff reliably, and that really detracted from the experience for me personally.
And I wish I'd been able to get into the alchemy more. I'm usually really stingy with consumables to begin with, and I think I walked around with 16 ash for the beginning stretch of the game, scared to cast out my heals in case I needed them in a battle if I ran out of the purchasable health refills. It was a catch-22. I was scared to run out by levelling, but also stressed about needing them! That's very much a me problem, but when things finally did become widely available, I was already mostly over the alchemy. When I found Super Heal in late game, I spammed the heck out of that!
I'm glad that you're a fan of this game. I really wanted to like this one since I came away from Secret of Mana feeling a little underwhelmed. But alas :(
I'd love to be able to spend consumables without stress. That's definitely a personal quirk I have though!
You play way more retro stuff than I do. I think you appreciate them more than I do(although I do enjoy some outside of my own nostalgia. Love to find hidden gems). However I think a lot of old games suffer from limitations of not only technology but also just limitations of game design. The industry is so big now. So many designers grew up with modern gaming. People have a better idea now on what works and what doesnt. I think back in the 90s, we were able to put up with certain annoying and grueling things that we don't have the tolerance for now. That is, unless the game has nostalgia armor.
This is such an interesting thought. I'll be curious to play some newer RPGs someday and see how they compare.
Hate is a strong word. It's not perfect but it honestly gave me the perfect gaming experience. So unique and fun. Very memorable!
I don't use the word hate lightly. I've played a lot of games, and I waited the entire journey through this one for it to start feeling fun for me. It brought me nothing but frustration outside of the characters and story elements. I'm glad that so many people like it, yourself included. I wish I could be part of your club!
Interesting review. I hope we get some reviews on the other "Secret of" games, and the other popular RPGs for SNES.
I got the version with a strategy guide as a kid, which made the maze-sections much much more tolerable and allowed me to lookup and plan ahead in the bartering sections.
At this point, I also spend a couple dozen hours with Secret of Mana, so I was aware/tolerant of many of the inherited flaws that came with the combat-mechanics. This led me to have a much better time with the game, so much that it was in my top 3 favourite SNES Games for a long time.
But I still remember how frustratingly imprecise the ingredient-location for the dog-discoveries were, and how infuriating it was that he sometimes picked up phantom ingredients and wasted time sniffing them out.
My biggest disappointment though as a kid, was the fact that there was no Secret of Mana-style of multi-player. Something I enjoyed very much in Secret of Mana.
I'm sure I'll get around to talking on the other games sometime. At this point I've only played Secret of Mana, and I talked a bit about why I didn't love it in another video on the channel (Popular SNES Games I won't Play Again).
It's so interesting that yourself and so many others absolutely adored this game, save for a few quirks. I'm usually really forgiving and patient with games and this one just pushed all my buttons. I wish I'd had a better time with it!
@@hungrygoriya I just recently stumbled across your channel, so I still need to work trough your back catalogue.
But I guess it make sense, if you had issues with the Secret of Mana - mechanics. SoE didn't really improve on any of them. So what were just quirks for us, probably just amplified the negative aspects for you.
I'm sure nostalgia also plays a strong role in this, at least for me.
Secret of Mana 2, did improve on the mechanics, but has other issues on it's own. So I'm interested in your thoughts on it.
I'm also sure, others already mentioned or recommended Terranigma to you. It might be right up your alley, although it might be a "challenge" to get the PAL version up and running.
@@Deckaio Terranigma is a game I just recently enjoyed for the first time and I loved it. I can't wait to sit down and write out some thoughts about it soon!
Secret of Mana 2 has long been on my list of games to try. It's definitely in the mix but I'm not sure when I'll get around to it.
4:47-5:06 At least in some RPGs and JRPGs, like Earthbound, glitches and graphical limitations can work to the player's advantage: like, how enemies don't respawn or show up in smaller quantities on the screen when leaving and re-entering specific areas. You should definitely review Earthbound as a counter to Secret of Evermore, because it practically fixes a lot of the problems you mention in this video... except for the short inventory for items, weapons, and armor.
Yeah the glitches were a bit ridiculous here! I'm sure there were a lot more to find too, but thankfully I only ran into a few that stopped me in my tracks. Luckily no hard lock-ups or save file corruptions.
this game is filled with glitches that benefit the player.... you can cast a spell 8 times at once, and theres a glitch where you can overflow your stats so you always do 999 damage at 0% charge lol
@@alexclaton Oh really? I had no idea that was possible, but that sounds hilarious.
@@hungrygoriya yea the game is much funner when youre able to break it.
to do the 8 at once glitch you play as the dog then navigate to the boys menu to cast and if you bring up the menu before it goes off you can cast again. if you do it quick enough you can cast upto 8.
If you wanna see the other glitch I mentioned I recommend watching SaturnTAS 100% tas run of the game. he also has a vid specifically for the glitch also.
I didn't play much but my cousin enjoyed this game. Said it was underrated.
There are a lot of fans out there!
A remake on the switch 2 or Secret of Evermore 2 would be nice 😁
Here's hoping they do something more with the series someday. There's some great aspects to it that I really enjoyed.
I'm usually in the minority for loving this game. The alchemy system had so much more potential and I wish they would have expanded on it for other games. Also with a little grinding its absolutely busted, I remember fireball from the 2nd area carrying me through the rest of the game.
I liked the market section too, it was something unique that i think other games could have tried.
It makes me happy that yourself and so many others here had a good time with this game. I wanted to like this game so much but I gave it my best try and it just never started to feel fun for me. Some of the basics were just too frustrating to get past.
As a kid during the puppet boss fight I was spamming alchemy attacks as quick as I could and the color pallet messed up and the save game screen opened up mid battle. I saved the game and it hard reset right then and after it restarted and played the intro I don't think it ever got to the load game screen. I think I broke the cart, it was a rental so I returned it and never went back to that place for a really long time.
Oh no!!!
You know what, that happened to me while emulating it. It froze and crashed after saving in that fight, luckily since it was emulated it worked after restarting the emulator.
Reading the comments under this and under SNESDrunk’s review(s) of Evermore (which had similar complaints to yours) is pretty interesting because both comment sections are filled with people who really loved the game, which is a dynamic I don’t see often.
I'm glad there are so many fans of the game. I just wish I could see what they do!
One of my favorite games of all time. And with every other rpg that existed at the time, the market was the most interesting grind i had seen. This game was so atmospheric for me when i was a kid that it left a huge impact on my imagination.
It's cool that you enjoyed this one. I had high hopes but just couldn't get into it at all.
@@hungrygoriya,
I hate the let down of popular games (& movies or books) that lack true entertainment.
The hate this game gets... lol. I loved it and had it, Played it so many times.. My favorite part was figuring out the Bazaar part as a youngster, It was the hardest thing I had ever done at the time and im pretty sure i took a spin around the block on my bike in some kinda triumph ride!
I'm very glad you enjoyed your time with it. I can relate to that feeling of getting out of the market. It was such a relief!
That one takes some math, which especially as a kid I hated! There are tricks that make that easier. I love that there are things there that seem like a good deal that end up really hurting you in the long run.
Fun story: I actually BOUGHT the amulet of anhillation from the merchant for 10000 jewels to cross the desert because I thought it was an obligatory event to acquire it. Never crossed my mind I could just travel the desert on foot, I just assumed it was one of those events the game gives you zero chance of success if you tried, like an endless maze in a loop, never leading to an end. Later I learned not only crossing on foot was possible but the item's cost was really cheap in the other side of the desert, in the city.
Lessons taken: 1. A game can troll you; 2. Assuming the intent of the game without testing may lead to comically incorrect conclusions. 3. Grinding (for anything -- money in this case) is not worth it: thinking outside the box is rewarding.
I was 12 when I played this game for the first time. Not the SOM sequel I was expecting, but liked it more than I disliked. Loved both market errands (did notes in a separate piece of paper too!), the comedy in the dialogues and the very pretty aesthetics. Disliked A LOT the fact the formulas you find earlier in the game become completely obsolete in the end game and are too costly to level up naturally, just not worthy to use them at all (complete opposite of the way I liked to play SOM). Not a fan of the pattern of movement of some enemies too.
Jeremy Soule's music, while enticing (City of Ivory, Crustacia, the roman ruin's theme, both boss battles themes -- my favorite themes today), my teenage self found them unusually eerie and quite unsettling, hahaha.
It sounds like your experiences with Secret of Mana were memorable at the very least! I definitely looked at that 10K cost for an amulet and started running across the desert and was so excited when I made it somewhere. So many places leave you to die in deserts. Terranigma, King's Quest V... I was expecting more of the same, but nope!
Many valid points made here. I love SoE, but I first played it when I was 14 years old and had a lot of free time - so long boss battles were extra tense and all the more rewarding. I got good with the enemy hit boxes, but I never got great at picking up hidden ingredients.
That said, the game is very rewarding if you grind a bit at several key points, which, again, is game design that worked for mid-90s sensibilities but does not work well as a first experience today.
I feel like repeated playthroughs would really bring a lot to this experience. It was nightmarish for me as a first-timer. I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Oh man I'd love to see an updated version of secret of evermore, it was one of my favorites. I had fallen deeply in love with RPGs and these games made it action rpg secret of mana, evermore, illusion of gaia, super Mario rpg. I've never found a genre that resonates more with me and my style!
RPGs are pretty great, and I'm especially keen on the action RPGs. I got into them a lot later in life if you don't count Faxanadu when I was a kid, but my first turn-based RPG experience happened as a teenager. I fell in love and started working backwards immediately into other series and I'm pretty hooked now too!
If you go from spot to spot without gathering you get wrecked. I always found the grind to be much more acceptable to the SOM grind. Talk about annoying, let's talk about saving all the way up to a level 8 charge only to miss. I like the somewhat limited resources here. I had issues similar to her when I played it the first time as a kid. Once you analyze stuff and figure the patterns it gets much more enjoyable. BTW, to not have a problem with punch out's difficulty and say this is too hard is laughable.
I don't think that's the comparison I made though. I said I enjoyed the battle finesse required in MTPO and Zelda 2, where you learn something from each battle. MTPO's one of the hardest games I've ever finished without question. The difficulty is not comparable at all. Secret of Evermore was just a slog for me.
I have alot of nostalgia for SOE but you're spot on. About everything. I was actually having the itch to replay it again the other day but maybe i'll wait a bit lol
I hope you'll take it out for a spin after my words fade! I'm sure subsequent playthroughs where you know what you're doing/where to go are much better. You can see the whole thing and know your strategies and what to focus on. This was my first-time experience with the game with only the manual for help, so it was pretty bumpy.
14:30 "How could you NOT have brought up the Market Place!?! The Video is almost over!"
14:45 You bring up the Market, and my PTSD kicks in from the mere sight of the place.
The market was miserable for me. People love it, and I can understand why certain people might, but it was such a chore for me personally.
@hungrygoriya Yeah, the tediousness as a kid, all the math, the lack of... anything to keep me engaged! mix in the Alchemy system, now is my chance to stock up on some stuff..... Add in how we both are never sure if we "need" an item later or not...... i drew a map of the market as a kid.
I used to have a big blank paper drawing book. I used it for all my game maps, and codes, throughout my gaming. I mostly comit things to memory but say, Simons Quest it was helpful. It wasn't until a few years ago at a friends, we decided to go through the game Together. I only then learned towns people lie. i thought it was just puzzles i never solved, or whatever. So i had so many notes and brainstormed ideas on things like, "where to meet this soman at midnight" or whatever time she spoke of.
Thought a monster ambush was her! But nope, just a monster at that spot. Then the confusing dreams mixed with real memories of growing up.
Really wish i still had that book. The Nostalgia it would hold for me...
That Market Place... whenever i replay the game, i use cheats to bypass that part / speed it up. (not doing it again!)
I never knew about the jail cell softlock. However, there is ANOTHER soft lock in the Egyptian Pyramid level... There are floating stones that permanently disappear after you walk on them.
There is a path that you can take that will trap you without escape. Worse, there is a save point available while being softlocked, and you guessed it, I had saved my game after the softlock.
... The gamer rage in 12 year old me was very real that day.
Oh man... I'm so sorry you got stuck like that! It seems like there were quite a few bugs in this one!
I am actually playing it for the first time, and playing it slowly and getting immersed in it is very rewarding. I mean, grinding is fun and the atmosphere is very unique. Trying to rush it feels lile the "mistake". I just feel like this is the perfect game to wind down and mindlesly grind to get ready for the next boss or set of hard enemies.
I'm glad you're enjoying your time with the game! Good luck!
Bingo, you have to take your time. Gathering and attacking to level are key. Upgrading the heal spell and a few attack ones is key. They don't all have to be strong. You do have to pay attention to what resources are in that area. Keeping track of who has the cheapest items helps out a lot too. Paying for convenience in this game will hurt you a lot.
Yeah that might be the key to why some of us have vastly different experiences, I enjoy grinding in this game and the "work" and "payoff" from coming out stronger afterwards... It definitely rewards a more relaxed and patient playthrough where you don't mind trying to spend extra time leveling up or grinding for cash
@@xDARKSHADEx I totally feel this in other games, but I didn't feel it here at all. I think trying to grind up and getting hit a lot/not hitting enemies with weapons made grinding excruciating for me. I'm glad yourself and so many others clicked with this game. I really wanted to like this one!
SoE is one of my favorites as a kid, both for the setting and being an SoM alike with a more grounded(ish) take. It is however, basically the poster child for Needs A Remake™ due to conventions and attempts of it's time being most of what you hate in it, and even I now as an adult have some reservations with. Also, first game by Jeremy Soule as composer, so that's a nice piece of trivia.
I'd love to see a remake of this one. I did really love the setting/characters and writing at least. I've played lots of action RPGs, and none of their controls frustrated me as much as this one did. I'd be curious to try this one again someday knowing what I know now but in the meantime, I've got other things to play.
It breaks my heart to hear someone say so many negative things about one of my favourite childhood games! lol. Sorry you didn't have a good time with Evermore... I still love it, though 😁
How about this? You can love it enough for the both of us! I'm glad this game has so many fans! It clearly strikes a chord with many, but it just never felt fun for me during my time with it.
I never encountered any bugs. This is one of my favorite snes games. I do admit that it is definitely a git-gud title and you need to do a lot of grinding. Not for everyone but those who like it often love it.
Yeah, I'm definitely in the minority here. I've played a lot of games from around this time and something about this one just never really clicked for me.
@@hungrygoriya I mean it happens. I'm like that with souls.
First off, if you want to play Secret of Evermore for the first time nowadays I think you should check out ninakoru's balance patch (it's at RHDN), it's an overall more fun and better flowing experience. Still the game is solid without it if you focus on a few spells per area.
Since a lot of the conversation about the game compares it to Secret of Mana, let's go for it because this is overall the better game to me: First off the hit detection is better, with less of a chance to screw up a charge attack and IIRC more of a chance to actually attack twice (if you attacked and dodged around the same time you can hold the button and attack again sometimes). While it is unintuitive to have stat-based success rate in an action game, certain items really help here.
Combat hit detection, while not perfect, isn't that much of a problem if you use alchemy and charge up attacks (admittedly they take time to level up but there's also items in the game that make you hit easier and dodge much easier).
Sticking with the comparison, dialogue is much better than in SoM, though parts of the story are still a bit dumb and the late game felt rushed. If you're into Lucasarts P&C games from around this time you'll probably enjoy this story, it's overall comedic but with some emotional weight that is strengthened by a fantastic OST and it doesn't read like an b-tier translation of a JP game with seemingly shortened sentences here and there (although having played a retranslation of SoM the script there just isn't that good to me).
Regarding the dungeons there are some good ones with puzzle elements like the colosseum and pyramid, certainly a step up from Secret of Mana to me which also had overall shallow dungeons (unlike FF Adventure oddly enough). Some of the mazes are tedious, especially the dark cave, but the forest does have visual clues.
One of the more unique aspects, the alchemy system I found really fun and it makes sense why it's a 1-player game given how you order the NPC dog to look for ingredients. Balance-wise it works better in the patch, leading to less grinding. This is one of few games where I wanted to skim through every environment looking for resources. However I'll agree that combat flows a bit worse than a 2-3 player SoM game since you can't directly make the dog attack while you're recovering or charging up.
9:29 regarding these enemies though it's better to just use some alchemy you've leveled up such as Flash, which you didn't use at all.
That "dog in the forest" bug I've never seen and I've played through the game like 4 times, that's really odd. Was the confound spell not curable either? Never encountered that either. But fair enough about the jail cell bug!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. I'll assume your comment is meant more for everyone else here since I tried very hard not to draw any conclusions based on how this one compares to Secret of Mana (except that one bit about SoM having MP to make grinding easier).
I think all of what you're saying here is very true, but for a first time player with no guide or help (and no patch!) a lot of this stuff isn't intuitive, and I think some aspects of that are poor design. I've played a lot of games where I at least eventually start improving or having fun after a rough start, and that never happened for me here. I think on a subsequent playthrough or with a patch like you mentioned, this game has the potential to be great when you know how to use the many, many things you're presented with to the best of their potential. I just have a really hard time supporting the idea of this being a good game as is due to a lot of the problems I encountered, but that's just one person's opinion on the internet.
@@hungrygoriya True, well actually I had replied on a few other reviews or retrospectives about SoE on here before but in a more scattered way so thought I'd make one big, thorough comment here which also adresses these comparisons more generally.
Yeah if you ever do revisit it that patch should be a smoother experience but otherwise you'd probably have to focus on a few spells only if you want to avoid most grinding, which I'll agree is a flaw. I didn't have a problem with most puzzles or exploration-based challenges though, other than there being too many mazes. Didn't have problems picking up ingredients either save for in maybe 2-3 spots IIRC, you just get a feel for it after a while. If you have the same attitude as when playing Zelda 1 (while it has tighter hit detection you can run and use spells as well as rely on the dog here) I guess these aspects would be more fun.
I played this game as a kid and never experienced the bugs; it is interesting to see other peoples gaming experiences with this game being so different! I totally feel the leaving items behind out of fear of losing your progress in a maze, it felt tedious at times for sure! Great review!
I'm glad we're on the same page. I'm not sure why I had such bad luck with this game and its glitches but I am pretty unlucky when it comes to that sort of thing. If there's a lockup in a game, I'll usually find it.
This makes me pretty sad. Secret of Evermore was one of those RPGs from the 16-bit era that I never got to play, so it always kind of had this mystical quality to it. I already really liked Secret of Mana, which this definitely has a good bit of DNA from, and as you said, the settings and character definitely stand out.
I always thought this one never got rereleased because of it being made outside Japan, but maybe that isn't the reason after all.
Well I think if you really liked secret of mana, you'd probably like this too. Combat and menu/ui is nearly identical.
I wonder if the weapon hit detection's better here than in SoM.
You know, if you play with a guide, it might be a more pleasant experience. Knowing when/where you can buy reagents and being able to plan which spells to level knowing what they do would've been a big benefit to set me up for success. As always though, I just went in with what came with the game and struggled with the anxiety of the unknown.
@@hungrygoriya I wonder if they were trying to balance out how infamously OP the magic was in Secret of Mana
@@hungrygoriya iirc, SoE doesn’t have the % chance to miss that plagues SoM. However, the weapons only level up to-what-3 charges instead of 8? And with only 4 weapons types, that’s not a lot of charge attacks to work with.
The bartering bazaar segment was an object lesson on the value of a solid medium of exchange when I was a kid. Whenever I've run into someone who says stuff like "money is evil" or something similar, I know they never played Secret of Evermore at the very least.
Ha!
@@hosmerhomeboy It was pure chaos for me, but I'm glad so many people enjoyed that section!
@@hungrygoriya Without a good Guide, it takes several playthrous to figure out a 100% completist way. For Example. Before leaving the first act you have to collect 20k currency. so you can exchange it at the beginning in the 2nd act to buy a amulet of charon for 10k. if you do this you will get a charm in addition for free. this charm then can be traded away at the market for another important item. so that you can buy the charm at the marked in act 3 back. another thing is when you got through the desert to the city there is a sandwirl beside the city. if you stand in it for a long time (and after several healing spells) you will get sucked into an unterneath cave where you find a huge amound of goods that are needed for trading at the marked. another thins is to figure out spots to powerfarm the spells. there are spots where you can get more money per cast (while targeting and killing multiple targets)then the ingrediences for one spell cost.
Videogames aren't real, though...
Well, the physical aspects are but... yeah.
Having to trade rice for a chicken leaves you with rice if the chicken trader tries to rip you off.
If you hoard 1000 dollars in the bank and inflation rises by 50% then you lose 500 dollars for free. Nice! Very superior...not.
I beat this in 8th grade decades ago. Was pretty influential for me. I think the game was way ahead of it's time. Going back it does have some glaring issues. The hit box detection and movement is enough to prevent a replay. In a pre ps1 world this was great though.
I thought it did a really good job in many ways, but that hit detection is a deal-breaker for me.
Personally, as someone else who has completed Mike Tyson's Punch-Out, Zelda II and Secret of Evermore, I do go back to this game sometimes just for the music and atmosphere (not the first to say that :P). I also, out of those 3, found Secret of Evermore to be the easiest. However, many of the points are valid. I would also question the "worst" on SNES, though. The alchemy system kinda sucks, but there's no need to build up all your abilities, as you saw. I think the downfall is more that you can build up a few beasts like Crush & Heal and never need much else, so it becomes useless, as opposed to a concern for lack of ingredients. I do think it gets a lot worse than Secret of Evermore though. The 7th Saga, for example, talk about grind fest.
Secret of Evemore was definitely an easier time than the other two I mentioned. I just found the combat in MTPO and Zelda II to be really interesting, whereas in Evermore, it just felt a little boring.
And yeah, I managed to make it through the game without using much magic until Super Heal at the end, and also some buffs that make your attack stronger/make you invincible for a short time (I can't remember the spell names now, but they were very handy! I'm glad I found them!)
Secret of Evermore is my worst SNES experience. I'd never say something definitive like it's the worst on the SNES for everyone ever. I've played the 7th Saga and actually really liked it for its challenge and strategy. At least I could connect with enemies consistently in battle in that one...
Thanks for your insights here!
@@hungrygoriya Ah, yeah, I can agree the combat could be looked at as boring. If you enjoyed The 7th Saga more, though, I cannot fault your patience as the weak link! xD I just found the "challenge" in that game to be suffering through dozens of battles to level up enough to progress to the next area. It seemed to be more a tenacity test than strategy test. Certainly, you can cut that down by good battle strategy, but more than once when I went that route, I'd grind for 2 hours just to be out in the middle of nowhere and run into enemies that successfully cast a death spell on all my party members >_
Thanks for this video, it's wild I just completed a run of this on my own. It's one of my favorites and I'll always defend it but yeah I just used maps for the mazelike areas, although I did write out a Nobilia market flowchart just like old times. I'll always remember Secret of Evermore for the areas where the only sound backdrop is birds chirping, a lonely gust of wind. First time I had such a strong sense of place from a video game.
Many years ago I read a bunch of posts on the gamefaqs forum by someone claiming to be one of the devs who said the game's working title was just "Evermore" until weeks before the game shipped Square made them change it to "Secret of Evermore" presumably to drum up more sales based on the popularity of Secret of Mana. It's been a long time though so I might be distorting/misremembering details! Or basic facts!
What timing eh? It's always nice to hear what people loved about the game since I struggled with so many aspects in it. I did love the atmosphere/music and all of the visuals, as well as the story. I just wish the gameplay had been a little more enjoyable.
That's a really neat tidbit that you gleaned from that forum. I can just imagine the conversation that happened about the title change. Marketing marketing marketing!
I also played this game when it first came out. As a huge Secret of Mana fan, I was hoping that this was exactly the sequel I wanted.
Well, it really wasn't. I ran into nearly all the same issues you did: the hitboxes made melee combat difficult, and the alchemy system never clicked for me at all. I was just a kid! Trying to keep track of where to buy those alchemy ingredients was way too hard, and it meant that I never leveled up the vast majority of my spells because I never had enough uses of them to spare to do it. I still forced myself to finish the game, but I've never gone back and replayed it since.
Recently I watched a playthrough by someone who knew all the ins and outs, and seeing him display all the glitches and explain which charms were and weren't useful was just mind-boggling to me. Half the things don't do what they're supposed to, and a surprising number of items you can get in that bazaar in the second world can only be gotten during the timed event your first time there. It just doesn't seem worth it to me to take the time to learn the ins and outs of the system, because, at the end of the day, the game just isn't fun for me.
I guess my point is I'm sorry you ran into similar problems, but you aren't the only one. Even when this game was new, it was pretty divisive!
I appreciate the solidarity in this experience. I'm sorry that you also had a rough go with it, but I'm grateful to know that I'm not crazy for feeling the way I do about this one.
I'd love to watch some more reviews or a playthrough like what you've described just to see how it's done right. I think there's much to learn to get something out of this game, but I'm not interested in sinking in any more time to do it for myself.
i was an adult working on it and playing it and i had to keep notes about stores, bartering and a few other things. but that was quite common back in the day for complicated games. we were walking the tightrope between a child-friendly and an adult-audience game. the bartering section wasn't my favorite, but George did an amazing job on it and many people fell in love with it. i did ask George if we could hide a few duplicate items in nearby areas so people bad at bartering still had a shot to get things if they explored
@@mazthespaz1 Yeah, I think my biggest issue with it was just that I was a kid with a certain set of expectations of it being a simpler game (and yes, there were many more complicated ones: I sure wasn't finishing any of the Ultima games from that same time, that's for sure), and now I worry that I'd need a guide to get through it because of some of the bugs/glitches that would, if the game were released today, be easily fixed in a patch. It just wasn't for me, though I do think that the writing and the world-building were great and made it worth finishing.
Thanks for commenting! That's some really fascinating insight, and I really appreciate you taking the time like this!
I remember the combat being very finnicky, even in Secret of Mana. Thankfully, magic/alchemy is so overpowered compared to weapons, in both games I ended up just leveling those up and getting carried by it. I remember the "Crush" spell in particular being super useful all game long.
Yeah! A few others here have mentioned Crush being particularly useful. If only I'd been brave enough to use some reagents a little more hastily.
Could you stunlock like you could in Mana?
@@IaconDawnshire I don't think so.
@@IaconDawnshire I haven't played Evermore in a few decades but I believe there were certain Alchemy recipes you could use that could do it. But since it has been so long since I played, I could be thinking about Secret of Mana which I played a whole lot more.
The dog was the main point. It kills me that you don't understand the bit that you are the observer who's real strength came from the only true bond you had when taken out of your comfort zone. Never had a problem on console btw
I have to add that the lack of skill in hitting enemies is on you, I loved this game and beat it within three days. Secret of mana was a massive favorite of mine as well... Which weapons did you truly max out with orbs?
I leaned into the dog a lot in the space area and let him do his thing in most battles at medium aggression. Maybe I should've turned that setting up a bit? I don't know.
And are you thinking of Secret of Mana with the orbs? Here the levelling happens with use. I threw most of my time into levelling up the various spears since they could be thrown. They were garbage for melee but I think (if I remember right) every class could be thrown after it reached level 2. I didn't have interest in constantly swinging and missing with swords and axes.
And desperately attempting to level the spear is what you see me doing a lot in this video. Lots of people have commented, "oh you're using the spear for melee, why choose that it's the worst" and you have to kill stuff with it to level it up... before you get fast travel, you're stuck swinging it at whatever's around until it hits level 2.
@@hungrygoriya that makes sense with the dogs agro, much easier on the high setting. The orb reference was from secret of mana, most people didn't max out the weapons because the final orbs were random drops. Another fun feature in secret of mana was the magic. When maxed out the spells occasionally cast a semi cinematic version of themselves. An easy way of leveling the magic was to spam cast back and forth between your allies in a rapid fashion before each spell finished being cast. If you haven't already played illusion of Gaia, I would highly recommend that one as well.
I'm sorry that you had a bad time. One thing i learned quickly is that the dog will sniff at stuff in the field like the chicken, people feet, and trees. There's no ingredient it's just dog being a dog.
I don't know what tips to give because it's things i just learned when i was a kid. It's one of my favorite games but I can understand things i find enjoyable to me aggravating to some. for instance I love the bartering system, it reminded me of uncharted waters on the nes.
So you're telling me that whole time, there was nothing in the middle of all those animals? Ohhhh man.
I definitely think a lot of what I like in a game all boils down to personal preference. I still have yet to play Uncharted Waters but maybe I'll push it further down the list if it's like the market...
@@hungrygoriya The first one was about trading, the second one has different scenario including a cool female pirate one where she's out to get revenge.
@@SinisterSally Gotcha! I've only played a bit of Pirates on NES, which I'm sure is not even the same series at all. Cool to know that Uncharted Waters will be interesting to try sometime.
@@hungrygoriya no, Pirates is by Sid Meyer of Civilization fame, Uncharted Waters is a Koei history sim. In this case it's the early days of the age of discovery. I don't even think The Americas were discovered yet in the first one.
Edit: it's apparently still going strong in Asian markets, even has an MMO.
Nooooo Hungry Goriya doesn't like one of my favourite games, big sad ;_;
I'm sorry :( I wished it would've resonated with me more.
Secret of Evermore is a heartbreaker of a game. I've tried to play it many times and every time it feels like it's on the cusp of being good, and that makes all the glaring flaws that much more noticeable. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience Goriya. It's pretty rare for a game to leave a sour taste in your mouth like this, hopefully you recovered well.
Yeah, that feeling of waiting for it to finally turn the corner and start being fun is what kept me engaged for a while, but there was a point of no return after a while where I realized it'd feel the same the rest of the time.
@@hungrygoriya I feel like my childhood friend that played through secret of evermore was waiting for it to be good and he was trying to convince me that it was a good game just as much as he was trying to convince himself
Guess I'm weird. Enjoyed the game as a kid and beat it. Haven't revisited it as an adult. Might be time for a 2nd try. Anyways, appreciate the video and your perspective as always.
I don't think you're weird! This is my very personal opinion about a game that I didn't really enjoy! I hope you continue to have fun with it even these days. It just didn't click with me.
Without this game Jeremy Soule might have never gotten into video game soundtracks and The Elder Scrolls would have never been the same.
Gotta admit, I played this at age 14, never had any of the problems you experienced. And many of the points that irked you, were what I liked: finding hidden spots, mazes etc. Compare that to a AAA game from today: Jefi Survivor, with endless backtracking, glitchy commands, unfair battles etc... I dunno. I liked SoE much more...
Different strokes I guess. I'm glad you enjoyed this one so much. I really wanted to connect with it, but I guess I just enjoy different things in my adventure games. It still had a lot of good things about it but the things that got on my nerves really did. I haven't played any modern stuff at all so I can't compare, but I'll take your word on this game being better in many ways!
@@hungrygoriya a positive agree to disagree. I had almost given up hope to find courteous people like yourself online. Glad to see they still exist! Keep on making video's! They are good 😉 cheerz
SoE is one of the few games of this genre that I never played back in the day but certainly heard about it. I remember my younger siblings playing it and they seemed pretty frustrated and I'm not sure if they ever completed it. Your critiques of the game are valid, although this is one of those "classics" that some people will defend with their last breath while casually overlooking its flaws. I applaud your honesty for speaking out with an unpopular opinion!
I'm definitely in the minority on my feelings, it seems! Thanks for the kind words!
Love this game. It's def limited compared with Secret of Mana but my god the soundtrack is amazing. It creates such atmosphere.
Definitely! I really enjoyed the music when it was there!
its probably common knowledge now: the soundtrack was Jeremy Soule's first video game work. He would later compose the soundtrack for the Elder Scrolls Series such as Morrowind and Skyrim.
He did a very different approach to the (mostly japanese) RPGs of that time on the SNES.
@@hungrygoriya you're not wrong about the mazes though, I didn't really realize it until you pointed it out - that said, the challenging nature of some of them feels just right and is better than the super straight forward ones from say Secret of Mana. The Hall of Collosia was a really cool one, but the forest and the pyramid were fucking so boring you're right
@@macrozone I did know about Jeremy Soule - I haven't really played any other games he's composed for (I have skyrim but haven't played it yet.
@@StewNWT I found a lot of them to be a little too much. I prefer a challenge versus something easy, but a few of them went on way too long.
I'm so glad HCBailly did an incredibly thorough Let's Play of this game, because I never had the patience for it either. I think playing Secret of Mana first colored my expectations.
Good to know there's a great Let's Play out there to watch. Thanks for the suggestion!
Did HCBailly return to playing games? I miss his lets plays.
@@ICountFrom0 I didn't realize he had stopped at any point. He just finished Sim City, about to start a new one.
There's been a few breaks, I wandered off in the middle of one. Glad to hear he's back.
This game is a must-try simply for the weird disjointed highs and lows this game gives you. Like as an example: the market section was a wonderful idea except for the fact of the time limit. That ruins the entire section because its no longer a puzzle tapestry that you can slowly unravel at your pace and then feel accomplished. Instead because of the time limit, it immediately becomes frustration inducing. But its also something I havent seen done in games before.
I really like this game even with the flaws, but it is more of a game to experience and share with others, rather than saying its a wonderful game and how the story carries it if that makes sense. Brainlord comes to mind as another example where its both hard to recommend, and you likely won't play it again due to the bad parts but the good or unique parts are fun to talk about with others.
It's definitely got a lot of weird tonal shifts throughout, absolutely. It's definitely anomalous and unique among many of the other games out there. I just wish it felt a bit better at a fundamental level. I think I would've at least enjoyed the combat if I could've connected well with enemies once in a while.
@@hungrygoriya The hit detection and 100% meter thing is why I dont like this and Secret of Mana nearly as much as I could. If it was just a normal attack like in LttP, both games would be way better for it. Great review again btw. I actually think you did see the good in it since you saw the vision and its high points. Its just the disappointment hits people differently.
I loved the game. The intro with the comments of the boy without seeing it made my imagination and curiosity go wild, similar to the scene in the governor's mansion in The Secret of Monkey Island. And i never experienced the bugs you mentioned, at least not on my original SNES cartridge.
The market in Nobilia is great idea in my opinion, but you need the official guide to find the needed items. Luckily it was included in the box with the game.
The fighting system is not as bad as you make it. I see the loading of the attack like a cooldown in other games, but here you can interrupt the cooldown for making a weaker attack. Anoying was only the weird hit detection. Even if you hit, sometimes there was the message "miss", especially with this nasty mosquitoes.
With alchemy and getting ingredients I never had problems. You need only a few spells from the first or maybe second world and the ingredients for these particular are easy to find and nearly always available at shops. But it's sad that this makes later spells just useless. :(
Do you mind me asking if you're from a PAL region? I know that release of the game came with the guide but as far as I understand, I don't think it was released in North America. I played this game on original hardware with the cartridge, and a few others have mentioned the bugs I ran into as well. Apparently I just have really bad luck with bugs/softlocks!
The hit detection was not good, I agree. I think stats for hit accuracy must exist somewhere in the character slate but I found the consistency of being able to hit things all over the place.
And I think my issue with the alchemy was that I was having such a hard time killing enemies (I couldn't hit them and I kept getting hit a lot and needing to heal up) that I couldn't save money, and levelling weapons was free. By the time I had enough money in the bank and access to some shops with interesting ingredients, I was already content enough to stick with the weapons rather than starting up a whole new method of attack.
It's a strange thing to know, deep down, that everything I loved MOST about this game, is something that made her life hell. I remember working out the math, finding out exactly what I had to do to make the most of the market, and getting armor and weapons from HOURS ahead in the game from solving it, and being so over powered. Gameplay that encouraged slow and careful play, that was THE BEST. I'd spend HOURS in each cave, finding the right path, finding every drop, ever ingredient, and because I'd gone slowly in the last 2 regions, I had stockpiles of everything I needed. High evasion monsters got taken down with high accuracy magic. Other things were hit with the charge attack that I'd been holding for the last minute.
I still have the map of the dark air duct maze that I made for myself.
But sure, it's got to be frustrating for you to have folks like me step out of the woodwork and say, "yha, but" at you, so I won't. This game, and people who played it, we're a product of the time. You just don't HAVE 36 hours to spend grinding in the first 3 screens of the desert to buy the items from the guy in the first cave. And that is okay.
I'm honestly glad you had so much fun with it. Any read through this comment section will show that you are not alone in your sentiments and that my feelings about this one only align with about half the folks here.
At the end of the day, I think a lot of it boils down to personal preference more than it does time. I carve out at least 16 hours a week to play these games during scheduled streams, and I play them until I'm finished with them. I've beaten games that require a ton of grinding (8-bit RPGs like Phantasy Star, The 7th Saga, etc.), so it's not that aspect that pushed me away from seeing this through to its "full potential" as many people have implied I missed out on here. It just wasn't fun for me, and I'm not inclined to keep swinging and missing at enemies, pr trying to get money to buy ingredients to level spells that I'm not even sure will be worth levelling in a first playthrough. It was far too open-ended with too many options, and I took the easy way out with the weapon levelling since that saw me through. Once I had the throwing spear, I was set.
With the understanding I have of how the game works now, I could easily go back and do all the things you mention here, crush the game and have a lot nicer of a time with it. As a first timer though, it was excruciating for me and it turned me off enough to not want to touch it again for a long while.
*nod* yha, but I still feel bad that the stuff I liked, was so bad for you, and that you felt you had to play through it. Never like to see anybody suffer.
@@ICountFrom0 I don't like suffering either, for what it's worth, but it was more of an eye-opening experience. I came away learning a bit about my preferences in games and that's not a bad thing. I appreciate this sentiment very much!
They just don't make games like that anymore. Games that don't give you a minimap, chew everything up for you, games where there are secrets that 99% of players won't find. And it wouldn't work today because players have access to the internet anyways. Morrowind or Gothic 1/2 were similar. Oh, you just walked into a monster three times your level? Dead in a second. Oh, you got lost? No map for you, find out yourself. Frustrating, yes - but so much more rewarding than the games nowadays.
Evermore was one of the best games on the SNES, the market was brutal though.
I'm glad you enjoy your time with it so much. I wish I liked it more.
A game that tests the legendary patience of Hungry Goriya!
It wore very, very thin with this game. I'm so sad about that too.
Did you play this back in the 90's on and actual super nintendo? or was this recent to the time the video was made emulated? This game is definitely a "you had to be there on a Friday night in the 90's playing this at a sleepover" to understand it was an amazing game for its time.
I didn't play this game when it was new, only over the last couple of years. I did play on original hardware though. I honestly think a first-time playthrough will be tough for anyone coming to the game, but it probably benefits from multiple playthroughs. I just have no desire to replay it at this point.
I recently played this for the first time and I agree with your complaints about the "hurry up and wait" aspect to the combat. Sitting around and waiting for your weapon meter to hit 100% was so frustrating, especially if you whiffed your attack. Secret of Mana suffers from this problem as well, which is weird, because as a kid I absolutely loved Secret of Mana. As an adult I realized it has glaring flaws that I'm surprised I was able to just gloss over back then.
I whiffed a lot of attacks, my friend. I did so, so much waiting for charges. I'm glad I'm not the only one that's not a fan of this mechanic!
I played Secret of Mana as a kid, and was annoyed by the constant charging. I found the game a huge turn off despite my friend and his brother really liking it. I wasn't interested in playing it. The combat felt clunky and wasn't fun to engage in. I never bothered with Secret of Evermore as I expected it to be simlar to SoM.
@@Lastjustice I actually preferred the combat in SoM over this game. At least I could hit stuff!
@@hungrygoriya That's fair. I enjoyed Legends of Mana(I beat it twice one normal and the hardest setting.) and the remake of Trials of Mana(I got all the trophies for it on my PS4) more than Secret of Mana. It just wasn't for me.