I am a deicing instructor, this single flight is covered in almost every airline ive been trained on. Its a huge responsibility to ensure there is no contamination on the aircraft, that's why im proud to do it. Treat every aircraft like your mother is on it.
The jet crashed because of insufficient power, not because of lack of deicing. The EPR (Exhaust Pressure Ratio) gauges read higher because the probes were iced up and the set 2.04 EPR power corresponded to a much lower actual power setting. Engine Anti Ice provides heat to the probes.
On a cold, snowy, very early morning, I was on a flight out of Toronto. It was that aircraft's first flight of the day. It had been parked outside overnight. I saw no ice, just a layer of thin snow, on the wing, but the Captain insisted on delaying us and getting the plane de-iced. People moaned and grumbled about the delay. When the de-icing started, whole thick sheets of almost invisible clear ice, hidden under the snow, slid off the wings, the roof, the tail, and the sides of the aircraft. Several thousand pounds of it. We could almost hear, or at least see, the ice sheets shattering on the pavement. It was everywhere. Anybody who could view a wing, like myself, was startled at the large amount of ice which slid off. I even heard a few small gasps of awe or astonishment. Then, we all realized that the pilots may possibly have potentially saved our lives. There were no more grumbles about our slight delay after that. The cabin was quiet. There were HUGE sighs of relief when we took off safely, and gained altitude.
People are nuts. If we had delays we'd head upstairs to grab something to eat, watch some TV whatever. I'd stand and watch the snow falling and without fail I'd hear doesn't look to bad now will we be leaving soon? Huh? Not for a while I'm afraid. Expletives, I flown on TWA and the wx. was much worse. That's probably why they went under. Blah blah. Dude we're 20 feet away from the 27 and you can just barely make out the outline. Blah blah. We know it stinks, we don't want to be here more than you because I can't bitch and call you names. You may have a death wish but I have an exwife a d child support payments and I'm not making any money listening to you. I don't want to wait around here. Don't, go get a room before they're all full. Expletives, this is BS. I want to speak with a supervisor. Enjoy. Don't know what became of him. We didn't go anywhere and I never saw him the next morning. If the pilots say it's bad, there's a damn good chance it's bad. We don't get paid on the ground.
He was a true hero I remember watching the video of Mr Williams being given the harness over and over and instead of using it for himself he continuously passed it to the other survivors
Your civic pride in that Great Man is just! I saw what he did that God awful day, the most selfless & heroic thing I've ever seen with my own two eyes. That, along with the other real life John Wayne, who jumped into that jet fuel laced ice water Hell-hole, to save that poor terror filled & badly injured lady, who was trying so desperately to swim to safety. Those two things I shall never forget, none of us should ever forget what REAL HEROICS look like! 🙏 RIP Brave one ✝️
The first officer had more of a clue of what was happening than the captain. I don't know about then but now the first officer has the authority to reject a takeoff.
Craig - Skupnik was damned lucky, and could easily have added himself to the casualty list. What he did was brave as hell and I'm glad he succeeded, but rescue personnel are always going to make sure what they do is done safely so as to be able to fix the problem, not add to it. Also, the hard fact is they were simply unprepared for a disaster like that, and lacked the needed equipment. Back then (it seems to me) nobody prepared for such disasters until they had already occurred once. Preparedness is much higher these days.
Remember watching the aftermath video live on the news and choking back tears as Lenny Skutnik dived into the freezing waters to save a woman's life. Dictionary definition of hero.
And yet, no one seems to know anything about Roger Olian, who tried to swim out to see if he could save anyone, but he couldn't because there was not enough rope. All he could do was shout encouragement to the survivors. Pres. Reagan said that if he knew about Olian, he would have honored him at the SotU address, as well.
I remember that awful day that Air Florida crashed. I was trying to get home from a day of teaching at the Duke Ellington School of the Arts in Georgetown. My path home crossed 14th St in downtown Washington, and it was snowing and the traffic was horrible. I had no idea that the plane had hit the bridge. This added to the traffic mess. I turned on my car radio and heard it had happened. I felt tremendous sorrow for those lost.
Metro also had a derailment 30 minutes after this crash, killing 3 people. Now I understand why everyone freaks out and is extra cautious once they see snow here in DC.
I can’t remember exactly who it was, but one of my parents was on the bridge when this happened. Luckily he had just gotten on so he was fairly far from the impact site.
A friend owned an auto recycling yard just outside Washington, D.C. He bought the remains of one of the vehicles that was stranded on the bridge that day - due to weather, and a massive traffic jam. The roof was "caved in" below the seats, when the plane "pancaked" onto the bridge, then flipped end-over-end and landed upside down in the almost-frozen Potomac River, about half a mile south of the city of Washington, D.C. The ignition was still in the "on" position, and the gear-shift was still in "drive"!! The driver was alone in the car, and was (what we paramedics used to call )" Dead Right There". from injuries suffered as a result of the airplane crash-landing right on top of his car. Judging by the mute evidence (of his car) he never knew what hit him. Based on my experience and education, he never suffered, but was simply sitting in a traffic jam when, without warning, the "lights went out" - for him. God have mercy. RIP (I remember that day like it was yesterday)
I recall seeing an image of that car while it was still on the bridge, not something you easily forget. The storm was so bad that it was nearly pitch dark at the time also. This may have caused the flight crew to miss visual cues.
Just another reason why the arrogance that is so prevalent in his society amazes me so much. No one knows the date or time but it's an absolute certainty that we are all going to die and that life is short even if you are lucky(?) enough to live to old age. Why people take themselves so seriously continues to be one of life's great mysteries.
I remember seeing the rescue attempt on television. It was gut wrenching to see people struggling to stay above the freezing Potomac waters. RIP to all who lost their lives.
That was a hell of a day. I was almost killed twice on the ground by icy roads, and crossed the 14th street bridge maybe 1/2 hour to an hour before the crash. I was lucky that day. One man wasn't so lucky. He decided to go home instead of getting on that Air Florida flight. He hopped on the subway to get home and was killed in the subway accident that happened soon after the crash. I never did find out if that man's death was a myth or not, but at the time I believed it. It wasn't very hard to imagine seeing the number of close calls I had that day too. I also recall that airports became very big on de-icing planes right before take-off after that. A couple of my buddies and I spent that evening at a local hospital waiting to donate blood. We had to wait a long time because so many others had also risked driving to the hospital for the same reason. We hoped for many more survivors from the plane, but it wasn't meant to be. May all who died that day rest in peace.
Scooby - I agree absolutely. I don't recall his name but I'll never forget his action that day. Also, a thanks to all the people who risked their own lives to go give blood in the hopes of helping the injured. That hospital was CROWDED! We can be proud that lots of Americans step forward when a call for help is put out.
Slyn Smiley I didn’t find anything on that, as she’s very private. What I did find is quoted here: Every Jan. 13 is depressing for Priscilla Tirado, who lost her 9-week-old son and husband in the crash. She was arrested in Clearwater in 1987, on the fifth anniversary of the crash, charged with driving under the influence and possessing drugs per from the BaltimoreSun. I think your mistaking her with Kelly Duncan Moore. The lead flight attendant who also survived the crash & has since married and has children and is doing well.
I remember all the sad footage of the people swimming in that ICE COLD WATER!! The rescuers showed real balls getting in there trying to save them, they deserve all the praise in the world for that!
I noticed this exchange between the crew as I was watching. I had obviously guessed by then that the ice would be an issue. They said that because they flew in florida mainly they weren't used to ice , but it did seem very strange to have anti ice off when the ice had been causing so many issues. Was there any reason (or advantage) at all to have anti ice off ? Anyone know?
I remember that evening quite well. Working in suburbs of Philadelphia and driving home in bad snowstorm. Traffic crawling, backed up, I was listening to 'news radio' for traffic when the report came on. Sad.
Jacky Klasky Sorry for your relative and the others who perished. I can't imagine what you and his family went through. May they ALL have eternal rest.
Our next door neighbor was supposed to be on that flight. He was on a business trip, waiting at the airport when his wife had him paged to a courtesy phone. She informed him she had wrecked his Porsche 911 and totaled it. I was a High School Senior and a gearhead, and remember how much he cared for that Porsche. He was so upset, he changed flights and flew back to Boston. By the time he got home, the horror of the crash was known to all of us. We talked with him and his wife the next day, he still had the paper ticket and boarding pass for AF Flight 90.
It could be argued that flying people all over the globe is man's most audacious triumph over nature in general and the laws of physics in particular. Huge multi-ton machines of nearly infinite complexity, capable of holding hundreds of people at a time, relying on automated systems to guide them vast distances through severe weather. And all with nearly no margin for error. It’s a testament to human ingenuity that flying is the safest way to travel.
Amazes me how many of these disasters are completely avoidable. Most of it due to ignorance, thoughtlessness, failure to maintain aircraft, and failure to follow procedures
Yeah I've somewhat have thought the same especially when most pilots have hours of experience then things happen when shouldn't happen, at least in avoidable situations as this one but some crashes happen couldn't be avoided.
Daniel Mcgreevy: Don't worry young one. Before you know it someone else will be calling you "old fart." Its like yesterday i couldn't wait to turn 18 and now i can't believe I'm already into mid-upper 30's.
God bless you Mr. Williams. I'll never forget your incredible heroism, your incredible sacrifice. I'd like to think I'd act as gallantly, and chivalrous as you did in any similar incident. I'd like to think that most men would. I pray that those who saw this unfold live on TV saw what you did. You're a true hero. I pray that you crossed over very quickly.
Flight Officer had TEN objections to flight, starting with wings and ice, then engines a few times, then take off roll and speed. The phucko captain kept ignoring his observations....and got mostly everyone killed. The wrong person was captain.
I was in the U.S.A.F. for eleven yrs. & worked with pilots who had the inescapable mindset they were God( incapable of error). Invaluable or invariable? You decide. 😀
The first officer knew things were wrong. But was not assertive e enough. Probably hoping the captain would notice as well and support him. Especially when there was still time to avert take off😪
I live close to D.C. and the snow was hitting us like nobody's business. This in 83 my high school graduate year. We clearly was not going to school that day. Typically our area might, might get 1 storm a year. Most of our winters are in the upper 20's-40's blustering wind. Generally there's not much snow and when the new's reports that we might get hit with a noreaster people around here get crazy. They mob the food stores, it''s always bread and milk that goes first, tempers flare, Most people don't now how to drive in rain/snow days so accidents happen frequently on the Beltway. That's including the news reporter's constantly warning people "if you do not have to work please don't drive today" not exact verbatim but close enough. This was a very difficult crash for us because of the high amount of snow, the first responder's were having a difficult time getting to the 14st and potomac. I still remember the guy helping other people then going down. the lady being hosted up to the helicopter. It was too cold for their hands to close so gripping anything was not happening. I think the only reason there were any survivors at all was because the airplane hit the bridge first and most likely broke in half thus allowing those in tail section to have any chance at all. The airplane couldn't get enough lift and another problem is that they must turn to the left because of the restricted air zone for the White House. It's terrible to watch something happening in real time and not be able to help. Had I had my Ford Ranger it would have taken me a minimum of 15 minutes doing 70mph on a clear nice day with no traffic to get to that spot. Also the place where the plane went into there's only 1 road that'll get you close. That part of the bridge has traffic from Virginia that can easily get on the bridge as the Pentagon, Arlington Cemetery, Airport exit Entrance etc is right there. So it would have been easier for Virginia's first responder's to get there than D.C. I think K street has a fire department but D.C. traffic would have been snarled for sure. That was not a good day at all.
I remember that day very well. I was working in Arlington Virginia. We had heard a siren most of the morning before the crash. My co-worker said he'd wished the thing would finally shut up. Looking back on it now the siren seemed like a portent of what was to come. I stayed with a friend that night who had a car that looked exactly like one of those crushed on the 14th street bridge. She got calls all evening wondering if she was alright. BTW, I noticed that there was a Boeing 747 in the taxi line-up waiting to take off. 747's do not take off or land at Reagan National airport.
I took off that day in a Corporate jet. It was belting the snow down. The only good thing, if there is such a thing, is that it had been real cold all day and it was a powdery snow, but falling heavily. As near as i can calculate, I was no more than 15 minutes ahead of them on takeoff and probably closer to 5 minutes. We knew nothing of the crash. Our flight department heard there was a crash and knew we were scheduled to take off from there at that time. It was snowing so hard that out flight phone wouldn't work. My wife saw the breaking news of a crash and it wasn't known yet what type aircraft it was. She was a mess until we landed at our home base and word got out that it wasn't us. I never had any idea so many people worried about me. God can only imagine what the families went through of those that didn't get home that terrible night. God bless them all. Especially those who risked their lives trying to save the people on board. There were some extremely hard working tough rescuers trying with all they had to save lives on that flight. Many unknown hero's. Those helicopter pilots deserve a tremendous amount of praise for their airmanship. God Bless Mr. Arland Williams for his gallantry of continuously handing the rope from the helicopter to other passengers to save them first and then he didn't have enough strength left to save his own life. I think naming the bridge after him was a great token of his memory. I just hope more people would know why the bridge bears his name. An eerie part of the whole thing is that my home base airport is bordered by the Potomac River and my home is only about 500 feet from the Potomac River. I will reserve my comments about the flight and crew for another day. They have been through enough.
hi terry we had to listen to the cockpit voice recording in recurrent training and the first officer's son was in our class going through initial training.. You sound like you also fly so you will understand this. They took off with the engine anti ice off. This caused the forward engine nose spinner where the input epr sensor is located ,to ice up. This in turn caused an incorrect epr indication . The epr indication was showing max power setting when the other engine indicators were showing 75 % N1 85% N2 and lower than normal egt and fuel flow. lower than normal. They fixated on the epr indicators and failed to cross check to see if the other indicators were in agreement. As it turned out 4 of the indicators were in agreement with each other but not with the epr gauge. Basically they took off with only 75% power. Simple fix disregard the epr gauge and push the power up to match the other 4 indicators to their respective normal take off settings. The first officer knew something was wrong , captain should have aborted the take off. I have had a few that didn't feel right and aborted. A mechanic taped over the static ports on a 727 with CLEAR packing tape , one time a wasp's nest about 4 inches inside the pitot static tube itself made for interesting airspeed indications. Happy flying
Your attention to detail is spot on. The New York Air DC-9 ahead of them was flown by Captain Mark Meyer, brother of my husband. Captain Meyer was interviewed extensively as to his decision to takeoff. This day was also Captain Meyer's birthday. Obviously all was well with his takeoff.
Always look forward to your videos, Allec. Most I've seen on Mayday, and your video give the most intriguing dimension to these tragedies which always serve to make flying safer.
I recently retired (Age 65 law) and after the MD80 I flew the 737 series for a couple of years. Regardless of the plane, if you're taking off and it's not working you push those thrust levers to the maximum. These guys did not do that I hear. The EPR Probes Ant-Ice heaters were off. We turn them on when there is any visible moisture (fog, clouds, rain, snow etc) and the temperature is at 10C/40F or lower. That powerful air flow passing through the front fan section forms ice fast. RIP for all on #90.
this one gets to me because I remember watching the news on this day and was captivated by the heroics and unbelievable people who responded to help...
I was studying Arabic language at the Dept of State in Arlington then. They and the rest of government released everyone early afternoon due to the storm. The streets were clogged due to traffic volume and the accumulating snow on top of a layer of ice. It took a couple of hours just to get west on 395 to Alexandria where I lived. The first I heard of "a plane gone down in the Potomac" was on a local ham radio VHF FM repeater. WMAL 630AM didn't have anything on it initially, then was revealed that there was a commercial plane in the river, then that it had struck the bridge on the way down. Eventually I was able to get home and watch TV and the image I remember is the selfless hero who jumped into the river to grab the flight attendant who was thrashing around in the icy water of the Potomac, by that time delirious from the freezing temperatures. That fellow saved her life. Eventually the conversations of the pilots were published and as we find out in some of these crashes the pilots had actually observed something and started to get a bad feeling but pressed forward anyway. These two pilots were still quite young compared to most commercial Captains.
billsblots Wow, thank you for the details, my friend. I vaguely remember this. The man who jumped into the FREEZING water to save the woman is true HERO!!! Awesome memory of the day's events.
Larry Skutnik didn't save the flight attendant, it was the woman who had just lost her husband and baby son in the crash. She was half blinded by the jet fuel in the water, as well as being numb from the cold. The flight attendant, Kelly Duncan, was the second one saved, I think. She gave the lift vest to Nikki Felch, who was the last one saved.
Some heroic moves during this tragedy. The gentleman using a firehose to swim out to the survivors to at least inform them they've been noticed, he ran of of "line". The one individual diving in to save that girl who fell off the helicopter, that one man constantly passing the life ring then ultimately going under & dying. And this is just to name a few.
I’d attended a convention in D.C. the weekend before, and drove across that bridge several times. It was kind of chilling to learn of the crash only a couple of days after getting home. A friend who lived in the area had almost persuaded me to stay a few extra days. Had nightmares about being on that bridge when the plane crashed into it.
I clearly remember when this happened, I live just a tad north of Washington DC. I will never forget seeing them people hanging on for dear life in that freezing water and a man diving into the water from the bank. And of course the older gentleman that saved several lives while eventually losing his, that is what heros are made of.
My cousin happened to be one of the Airline Booking team that got people onto the flight, seeing as how the snow was expected to come in heavier, some folks were urgent to get out before then, and she helped families get transferred onto that flight, to fill empty seats. Afterwards she fell apart and had to leave the airline industry completely but it was a particularly hard time or her as she had gotten many of those folks onto that doomed flight and blamed herself for that. Of course, nobody could have possibly foreseen that happening, especially from her point. But it was a major tragedy for a great many people, many of whom were never heard of.
if I had a company or a copyrighted item, and someone like Alec came along and produced these gorgeous attempts at keeping our past mistakes alive, for us to see how we've learned... no way would I be snobbish enough to take the little bit he earns... if any. Seems to me Alec should be doing those preflight safety videos airlines use right before take off. Then he could sue them for infringement.
I was @ Kessler AFB, Mississippi going to class when I heard about this tragic incident. Called home, D.C.b that evening and found out a subway car on the Red Line, near Metro Center, crashed tore open.1 fatality. Friday, the 13th of Jan., lived up to its name.
The 737 had broken into several large pieces upon impact. These were the nose and cockpit section, the cabin up to the wing attachment point, the cabin from behind the wings to the rear airstairs, and the empennage. Although actual impact speeds were low and well within survivability limits, the structural breakup of the fuselage and exposure to freezing water nonetheless proved fatal for all persons aboard the plane except those seated in the tail section. The National Transportation Safety Board concluded that the accident was not survivable.[4]:76-77,82 It was not possible to determine the position of the rudder, slats, elevators, and ailerons due to impact damage and the majority of the flight control system having been destroyed. The National Transportation Safety Board determined that the probable cause of the crash included the flight crew's failure to enforce a sterile cockpit during the final pre-flight checklist procedure. The engines anti-ice heaters were not engaged during the ground operation and takeoff. The decision to take off with snow/ice on the airfoil surfaces of the aircraft, and the captain's failure to reject the takeoff during the early stage when his attention was called to anomalous engine instrument readings.[4]:82 The NTSB further stated: "Contributing to the accident were the prolonged ground delay between deicing and the receipt of ATC takeoff clearance during which the aircraft was exposed to continual precipitation, the known inherent pitch up characteristics of the B-737 aircraft when the leading edge is contaminated with even small amounts of snow or ice, and the limited experience of the flight crew in jet transport winter operations."[4]:82 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Florida_Flight_90
All they had to do was turn on the anti-ice, and then their heated probes would have provided them with accurate engine information. With that they would have climbed out normally. What amazes me is that they did not advance the thrust levers the moment the shaker activated, or at a minimum, when they were not recovering.
I just don't understand why at one point they were so concerned about ice but at 4:09 going through the checklist don't turn it on. Although maybe the ice was all on the back of the win, they couldn't see and thought it was cleared? Still it couldn't hurt, right? But with ice getting into the engine when they reverse thrusted and in turn screwing up their indicators it may not have mattered anyway as they seemed to just not have enough power and stalled. Might not have ever happened if the tug was properly equipped to start.
@@Mattribute Exactly right. Tests were performed (after the crash of course) in which the exact same conditions of contamination (snow on the wing) were re-created. Even after they limped into the air, had they simply firewalled the thrust levers the plane would have been able to climb out. While the snow on the wing was a factor, the Engine Anti-Ice selected to OFF was the real reason for the crash. The plugged (ice) P2T2 probes gave them erroneous Engine Pressure Ratio readings. The EPR gauges indicated proper thrust, but they weren't even close. Had they looked at their Fuel Flow and N2, they might have caught the error and advanced the throttles. A sad day in DC, and for commercial aviation.
Arland D. Willlams. I was only a child, but I will never forget watching this unfold and seeing one person hand-off that life-saving ring over, and over again. My dad, who worked in aviation, was watching, too and he touched the T.V. screen, pointing to the man, and we silently sat, riveted by the extraordinary actions of that man. I have thought about this hundreds and hundreds of times over the years.
Two heroes: The guy who jumped off the bridge, Mr. Skrupnik, while the others did not ( and violated their EMT training ) and passenger Williams who died helping others TO SURVIVE. He, and his family deserve the President's Medal of Honor posthumously for his actions.
Just to let you know sir, the Medal of Honor is for military. The Presidential Medal of Freedom is awarded to those civilians who risk their lives in the saving of others.
I watched this live as it happened in 1982 on television...to say the least it was heartbreaking watching that stewardess grasp for her life and the mother whose baby died also and that heroic rescue by the man from shore who went in that water and risked his life...I cry watching it again :-(
This one is really saddening. A gung-ho cowboy pilot captain who invents his own procedures, and isn't into CRM. In combination with a F/O who doesn't dare initiating a RTO, in spite of his entire body telling him to. Sad. And so easily avoidable.
Civilian airlines were deregulated in "79. The ultimate underlying cause of this disaster was the reckless corporate drive for greater profit. Those two pilots weren't experienced flying in bitter cold weather. The Captain had no knowledge that using reverse thrusters & the exhaust from the plane ahead would compound the ice problem.
This was the first video I watched of yours, Allec. Was looking online about this disaster I remembered as a kid and saw this video. Have watched almost all of them over the past 1.5 years, or so...
They may have been de iced more recently, and probably had their anti-ice system ON. Also, they may have not tried backing out of their gates with reverse thrust
Former Air Florida dispatcher here. Not mentioned here in the video was the 737's issue with taking off with contaminated leading edges at flap position 1, which had been mentioned in previous Boeing publications as entailing the risk of pull-up/roll-off tendencies. The attempt to reverse thrust out of the gate undoubtedly contributed to such contamination. NTSB determined from analysis of the engine sounds on the CVR that they actually tookoff with 74% thrust, yet the EPR showed otherwise due to the blocked PT2 (from engine A/I off). In the November 1982 edition of Science Digest, pages 66,67,111, there is an excellent article by Drs. Trivers and Newton about the interface between PIC Wheaton and F/O Petit that all interested in aviation safety should read. Roger Petit's two sons, now long grown up, now fly for Southwest Airlines.
If the tug's tires are slipping on the ice when attempting to push the plane back from the gate, isn't that a good representation of how treacherous the ramp and runways are going to be? The pilot made some mistakes, but the airport should have been shut down before they were allowed to take off.
If you have never complained about being late to take off, then go ahead, make nasty comments armchair astronauts. Otherwise go get a mirror and look at your contribution to the pressure to get planes off the ground in sub standard conditions. You complainers are just as stupid as this captain.
@@antispamman4795 Oh, you must be another Charles Lindbergh. My deepest apologies for offending your obvious sharply honed aviation intuition. Pardon me while I bow my head to contemplate just how infinitely more qualified you are to post a comment on a public message board.
The surface conditions of the apron is not representative of the runway conditions. But if the tractor can't push, the correct decision is to stay put. Only a fool applies reverse thrust while stationary. There is no procedure for that.
My husband traveled to DC for a meeting that day. He wasn't looking forward to driving in rush hour. He would be on that bridge near the time of the crash. It was a long wait to know he made it home. No cell phones then. I'll never forget the man letting others be rescued first and him slipping under the ice. So sad for so many because they guessed what was okay instead of verifying conditions.
Thanks for the repost, Alec. Pilots, as part of their ground school, should be required to watch your vids & similar ones when studying ways to intercourse up flying a plane...
Bossman when winter operations approach this report IS shown in ground school and re-current training. In our initial ground school for the 727 we had a young man in class who's father was rhe first officer on that crash. Many peoples thought the reason the plane went down was ice on the wings WRONG When they de-iced the engine anti-ice is turned off and bleed air that supplies air to the cabin. When the de-ice was done the bleed air for the cabin heat and pressurization was turned on but NOT the engine anti-ice. There are sensors in the front nose cone on the engine and one in the back of the engine. These measure pressure differences between the two to tell how much power is being generated. We call this Engine Pressure Ratio or EPR. With the front nose cone becoming plugged with ice and the rear sensor working the computer is sensing high pressure in the back of the engine and low pressure in the front nose cone giving a false indication of high power or thrust output. On takeoff we look at EPR and N1and N2 N1 is a value given in percent of the max rpm of the large fan and N2 is a percent value for the inner part of the turbine. In other words if the max rpm is say for example 100 rpm and the computer is sensing 75 rpm then a value of 75% will be displayed on a gauge in the cockpit. When they took off the capt( who was an arrogant know it all) was focusing on the EPR gauge which was indication a false indication of 100% take off power but in reality it was only 75% of available thrust. If he would have listen to his First officer who called out "we only have 75% of N1 " which means the EPR gauge was lying and N2 was also below it's value for takeoff. Simple fix was to push the throttles up and monitor the N1and N2 gauges. Basically they took off with 25% less power that was required for climb out. Like going down the freeway pressing lightly on the gas pedal ad doing 40 or so with a tachometer only indicating 1200 rpm and the speedometer says you are doing 70 when normally the tach would read 3000 rpm at 70. Conclusion the speedometer is not right also confirmed was all the cars passing you and giving the middle finger salute. Hope this clears things up. How do I know> 25 years of flying airliners.
I remember this day. I grew up in a suburb of Baltimore about 40 minutes north of D.C. Once schools finally closed for the day I went outside to try and play in the snow but it was coming down so hard me and my friends could hardly see and we all decided to go home and wait for it to let up. I came into the house exhausted and took a mid afternoon nap. I had a horrible nightmare that I was being attacked on a plane that was going down. It woke me from my nap and as I went into the living room the news of the crash was on TV. That dream and that day are still very vivid in my mind.
Love your videos! But I had to laugh at 2:20 when I saw a 747 lined up for takeoff. The longest runway at DCA is 7,169 feet, so I don't imagine any 747s ever flew in or out of there.
Malcolm I felt the same way about the 747 and the L-1011, but did anyone else notice the PSA MD-80 in line waiting to takeoff? Pacific Southwest Airlines never served DCA, nor any city east of Albuquerque as far as I can determine!
@@darensmith5674 Too short for what? Airliners have used that airport since it opened. Scores if not hundreds of flights per day for over 50 years. Can you name another accident at DCA because it was "too short"? I won't bother to wait because I already know the answer.
The accident that ended Air Florida soon after, that and the fare wars that were going on. As of 2020, of the surviving passengers, only Kelly Duncan, Joe Stiley and Priscilla Tirado are still alive. Priscilla lost her husband and baby in the crash and Stiley endured much physical pain for a long time after the accident.
still on runway....."that doesn't seem right, does it? uh, that's not right. no, I don't think it's right. ah, maybe it is?" i'm not a pilot, which is why i am asking, but was go/no go still an option at that point on runway and if so, why the hell would did they take the chance with go then??
Below V-1 I believe you always have the option to abort the takeoff. I have been a crew member for 17 years and the only type of people I fear, are those with no confidence or whom can't process the basic ability to not question a initial reaction. The moment he noticed the engine indicators seemed off and at the same moment, it felt sluggish. There should be nothing further happening beyond the abort being called out and performing the necessary procedures to stop the plane. The worst that should had happened could have maybe been an unnecessary abort. Instead nearly everyone died because of blatant stupidity and clear lack of training.
@@FRANKL-o3c Yes you do have the ability to stop. As F/O Mr. Pettit did the right thing about speaking up. And as the PiC, he should have gone with his instinct.
They had been sitting in line to take off for over an hour. They'd have to go to the back of the line if they aborted. They were on their way to sunny Florida, and didn't want to take the chance of having to spend another night in snowed-in DC.
@@briansmyla8696 as a 737 and 757 pilot, I would rather ensure the safety of my aircraft and passengers then risk almost certain death by ignoring PROPER PROCEDURES.
I remember the survivors in that freezing, cold water wondering if any could survive while waiting to be rescued. Some amazing acts of heroism that day.
I flew on the very next Flight 90 home bound to Ft Lauderdale, about a week or two later. Passing over the unmistakable outline in the bottom of the river was terrifying.
CAN YOU IMAGINE REPLYING TO A YEAR OLD COMMENT WITH A BUNCH OF WORDS THAT HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ORIGINAL COMMENT?? I CAN TOO!! BUT ONLY IF IT’S IN ALL CAPS TO SHOW I AM USING VOLUME!!! IT KINDA WORKS HUH?
This crash would not have happened if the Cocky Air Florida Captain had done his job. All the poor souls he took with him paid the price for his fatal mistake.
John lawrence and any of us that flies could have the bad luck of having a narcissistic or haughty macho captain like that. We just have to pray that person is prevented from causing any accidents with us
@@thefreedomguyuk No it doesn’t. The F/O was absolutely not at fault. At the time, crewmembers were not allowed to question their captains; their will was final. The F/O made several attempts to advise the foolish captain about the icing but he did nothing.
I'll never forget this day, as I took my mother to National for a flight to Chicago at around 1PM. The weather was hairy all day, with snow mixed with freezing rain from noon on. That's the biggest problem they had with the de-icing that day, because the freezing rain immediately iced up on the wings. Pulling the plane in to the exhaust of the plane ahead was just a real bad move, because with the temperature holding right around 30, the melted ice just iced right back up again.
Even if it's a/an copyright it's still a sad story,we should be thank-ful that we weren't on that flight or one of our family members that we are close to that will give you something to say"Thank You Jesus!".
kani_nation mcharvin Jesus, really? If he was really there, do you think he would let people die and let planes crash? I for one don't think so and I think a lot of people who can contemplate about death would agree with me.
Cats Ftw I UNDERSTAND your feeling but things happen for a reason. Jesus is not the reason why people die and planes crash. That's the devil. He did that so you would feel as you do... that Jesus let those people die. When bad things happen it's the devil doing it so we can blame God. Don't fall for it!! God gave up His only Son so we would have everlasting life not death. It's the devil, don't let him steal your "life "
Never forget that day. My best friend was working for Eastern loading passengers at WNA. I had gone back to Sarasota, Florida where I lived. She heard in her ear piece the Air FL had just crashed into the 14th St bridge, but not to show emotion as she sealed the door to the Eastern flight and walked back to her station at the airport. I was listening to the story of how hero Lenny Skutnik had rescued a FL girl named Priscilla Terada. I prayed for them all. I lost my Dad a couple months earlier. We were all 20ish. 81-82 were pretty horrible years. I hope the five survivors are still living. We were all young. My friend started a business and got married. Left the airport. Kelly Duncan was the flight attendant. The other surviving girl was Nicky Feltcher. I think about it once in awhile.
Not a bad depiction. On March 3,1991 I was in Colorado Springs when the United 737-200 nosed into the ground. Horrible Day. I remember how windy it was on that beautiful sunny day. Did you recreate that doomed flight?
Eric that though was because the 'A' Flight Computer circuit boards had not been pushed all the way back in, and they were making intermittent contact which a malfunction told the rudder that it had gone too far the other way. Hence why the pilots controls would not respond when they tried to correct.
Thank you for posting this video. So much information we gain by talking about the chain of errors and mistakes made along the way. May they all rest in peace.
Please forgive me if I sound not too desirable, but I wonder if Jesus especially rewards those who die (with faith and trust in Him of course) in horrifying circumstances like drunk driving accidents or plane crashes while He welcomes them into His Father's heavenly kingdom?
Jason - temps are much colder at the altitudes these planes fly at, like sixty below zero. Once they get above the clouds, the "bad weather" disappears. Wind conditions can be dangerous at any time. What they needed to do was make sure the de-icing was also done on the exposed sensors, not just wings etc...
For some reason I was home from school that day. Either sick or a snow day, I forget which. But I was watching TV when they cut to this crash live, because it happened almost in front of a camera crew. It was just chilling to watch.
Passenger jets safely fly in and out of Burlington, Vermont Airport all the time It has the equipment needed to maintain the strip no matter the weather, and the necessary equipment/supplies to keep planes safe and prepared. Only once can I recall the airport being shut down, and that was after an ice storm that coated the whole area, brought down trees and lines, caused many road accidents and made even stepping outside your home a danger. Any aircraft at the airport then would have been entirely and thickly coated in ice. If a tiny Int'l Airport like Burlington can handle the problems responsibly and maintain an excellent safety record, then larger airports have no excuse.
If I live to be a thousand, I will never forget this disaster. This was the first time (that I can recall) that news crews were ON SCENE filming in real time. I will never forget the shocked look on the young woman's face as she tried and tried to get on the ice, only to fall into the water. IMHO, the flights should have been cancelled that day. Still there was no excuse for the pilot being an idiot.
I am a deicing instructor, this single flight is covered in almost every airline ive been trained on. Its a huge responsibility to ensure there is no contamination on the aircraft, that's why im proud to do it. Treat every aircraft like your mother is on it.
hell yea
The jet crashed because of insufficient power, not because of lack of deicing. The EPR (Exhaust Pressure Ratio) gauges read higher because the probes were iced up and the set 2.04 EPR power corresponded to a much lower actual power setting. Engine Anti Ice provides heat to the probes.
@@miaflyer2376 but doesn't ice or snow disrupt air flowing over the wing?
We need people like you.
Awesome, where are you based out of bro? I fly out of PHL. Not much ice this year though.
On a cold, snowy, very early morning, I was on a flight out of Toronto.
It was that aircraft's first flight of the day. It had been parked outside overnight.
I saw no ice, just a layer of thin snow, on the wing, but the Captain insisted on delaying us and getting the plane de-iced. People moaned and grumbled about the delay.
When the de-icing started, whole thick sheets of almost invisible clear ice, hidden under the snow, slid off the wings, the roof, the tail, and the sides of the aircraft. Several thousand pounds of it.
We could almost hear, or at least see, the ice sheets shattering on the pavement. It was everywhere.
Anybody who could view a wing, like myself, was startled at the large amount of ice which slid off. I even heard a few small gasps of awe or astonishment.
Then, we all realized that the pilots may possibly have potentially saved our lives.
There were no more grumbles about our slight delay after that. The cabin was quiet.
There were HUGE sighs of relief when we took off safely, and gained altitude.
People are nuts. If we had delays we'd head upstairs to grab something to eat, watch some TV whatever. I'd stand and watch the snow falling and without fail I'd hear doesn't look to bad now will we be leaving soon? Huh? Not for a while I'm afraid. Expletives, I flown on TWA and the wx. was much worse. That's probably why they went under. Blah blah. Dude we're 20 feet away from the 27 and you can just barely make out the outline. Blah blah. We know it stinks, we don't want to be here more than you because I can't bitch and call you names. You may have a death wish but I have an exwife a d child support payments and I'm not making any money listening to you. I don't want to wait around here. Don't, go get a room before they're all full. Expletives, this is BS. I want to speak with a supervisor. Enjoy. Don't know what became of him. We didn't go anywhere and I never saw him the next morning. If the pilots say it's bad, there's a damn good chance it's bad. We don't get paid on the ground.
@MysticalKittyMCPE - 1000 subscriber without videos why do u care so much about this
I think I was on that plane
@@eshjane Really?
@Moon Presence that doesn't make them an idiot. They just need to do like you said.
Arland Williams was from Mattoon, Illinois. There is an Elementary School named after him. We are very proud of him here.
Andrew Dowling ❤️❤️❤️❤️. So great
The bridge that the plane slammed into in DC is called the Williams Bridge. It used to be the 14th st bridge.
Proud here in MD too
He was a true hero I remember watching the video of Mr Williams being given the harness over and over and instead of using it for himself he continuously passed it to the other survivors
Your civic pride in that Great Man is just!
I saw what he did that God awful day, the most selfless & heroic thing I've ever seen with my own two eyes.
That, along with the other real life John Wayne, who jumped into that jet fuel laced ice water Hell-hole, to save that poor terror filled & badly injured lady, who was trying so desperately to swim to safety. Those two things I shall never forget, none of us should ever forget what REAL HEROICS look like! 🙏 RIP Brave one ✝️
If you use the terms "I don't know" or "I don't think": just stay on the ground..
Exactly!
The first officer had more of a clue of what was happening than the captain. I don't know about then but now the first officer has the authority to reject a takeoff.
Sad story but I'll never forget that Lenny Skupnik diving in the river while the rescue guys wouldn't.
HERO
Craig - Skupnik was damned lucky, and could easily have added himself to the casualty list. What he did was brave as hell and I'm glad he succeeded, but rescue personnel are always going to make sure what they do is done safely so as to be able to fix the problem, not add to it. Also, the hard fact is they were simply unprepared for a disaster like that, and lacked the needed equipment. Back then (it seems to me) nobody prepared for such disasters until they had already occurred once. Preparedness is much higher these days.
Craig Stark I was a kid but I’ll never forget it either. I saw it on the news. Hero for sure.
@@TedBronson1918 the word you're looking for is preparation
Craig Stark Same Nero
@@ElfHimSelf -Definition of preparedness
: the quality or state of being prepared.
Hey, let’s create our own experimental de-ice procedure, right here on the runway.
We’ll know soon enough if it works.
What could go wrong?
STUPID
Remember watching the aftermath video live on the news and choking back tears as Lenny Skutnik dived into the freezing waters to save a woman's life. Dictionary definition of hero.
And yet, no one seems to know anything about Roger Olian, who tried to swim out to see if he could save anyone, but he couldn't because there was not enough rope. All he could do was shout encouragement to the survivors. Pres. Reagan said that if he knew about Olian, he would have honored him at the SotU address, as well.
I'll need to watch movie again.
@@lindalds kudos to you Mr. Olian!
I remember watching it on the news as a kid...Some things you Don't Forget. 😥
the bridge should have been named after him
Aviation laws and safety instructions are written with blood
I know right
this one a real shame, as these were paid for with blood many times before...those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it
Creepy way to put it
😠😠😠😠😡😡😡😡😡😡😡
True that!
I remember that awful day that Air Florida crashed. I was trying to get home from a day of teaching at the Duke Ellington School of the Arts in Georgetown. My path home crossed 14th St in downtown Washington, and it was snowing and the traffic was horrible. I had no idea that the plane had hit the bridge. This added to the traffic mess. I turned on my car radio and heard it had happened. I felt tremendous sorrow for those lost.
Metro also had a derailment 30 minutes after this crash, killing 3 people. Now I understand why everyone freaks out and is extra cautious once they see snow here in DC.
Jason Harmala You know that's right, even when I was at Howard in the 70's people would talk about the DC freak out caused by snow
I can’t remember exactly who it was, but one of my parents was on the bridge when this happened. Luckily he had just gotten on so he was fairly far from the impact site.
Rodney Morgan Brown Hello Rodney Morgan Brown- I attended Duke Ellington School of the Arts in D.C. from 92-96, theater department.
@@joe8124 good thing.
A friend owned an auto recycling yard just outside Washington, D.C. He bought the remains of one of the vehicles that was stranded on the bridge that day - due to weather, and a massive traffic jam. The roof was "caved in" below the seats, when the plane "pancaked" onto the bridge, then flipped end-over-end and landed upside down in the almost-frozen Potomac River, about half a mile south of the city of Washington, D.C. The ignition was still in the "on" position, and the gear-shift was still in "drive"!! The driver was alone in the car, and was (what we paramedics used to call )" Dead Right There". from injuries suffered as a result of the airplane crash-landing right on top of his car. Judging by the mute evidence (of his car) he never knew what hit him. Based on my experience and education, he never suffered, but was simply sitting in a traffic jam when, without warning, the "lights went out" - for him. God have mercy. RIP (I remember that day like it was yesterday)
man what a story. im chilled!
Same
Yeah same here, chilled. What a story from a person who was there & imagining all this while reading. God Bless!
I recall seeing an image of that car while it was still on the bridge, not something you easily forget. The storm was so bad that it was nearly pitch dark at the time also. This may have caused the flight crew to miss visual cues.
Just another reason why the arrogance that is so prevalent in his society amazes me so much. No one knows the date or time but it's an absolute certainty that we are all going to die and that life is short even if you are lucky(?) enough to live to old age. Why people take themselves so seriously continues to be one of life's great mysteries.
I remember seeing the rescue attempt on television. It was gut wrenching to see people struggling to stay above the freezing Potomac waters. RIP to all who lost their lives.
That was a hell of a day. I was almost killed twice on the ground by icy roads, and crossed the 14th street bridge maybe 1/2 hour to an hour before the crash. I was lucky that day.
One man wasn't so lucky. He decided to go home instead of getting on that Air Florida flight. He hopped on the subway to get home and was killed in the subway accident that happened soon after the crash. I never did find out if that man's death was a myth or not, but at the time I believed it. It wasn't very hard to imagine seeing the number of close calls I had that day too. I also recall that airports became very big on de-icing planes right before take-off after that. A couple of my buddies and I spent that evening at a local hospital waiting to donate blood. We had to wait a long time because so many others had also risked driving to the hospital for the same reason. We hoped for many more survivors from the plane, but it wasn't meant to be. May all who died that day rest in peace.
TedBronson1918 And that nice guy who made the ultimate sacrifice to save his fellow passengers? May God bless especially this gentleman.
Scooby - I agree absolutely. I don't recall his name but I'll never forget his action that day. Also, a thanks to all the people who risked their own lives to go give blood in the hopes of helping the injured. That hospital was CROWDED! We can be proud that lots of Americans step forward when a call for help is put out.
It sounds like Final Destination before the movies even existed.
Praise to Lenny Skupnik who saved Priscilla Tirado, I remember seeing this on the news and him jumping in the frigid waters.
They got married. Did you know that?
Slyn Smiley they did?? I didn’t know that.. it’s been a task trying to find out what ever happened to her.
Slyn Smiley I didn’t find anything on that, as she’s very private. What I did find is quoted here: Every Jan. 13 is depressing for Priscilla Tirado, who lost her 9-week-old son and husband in the crash. She was arrested in Clearwater in 1987, on the fifth anniversary of the crash, charged with driving under the influence and possessing drugs per from the BaltimoreSun. I think your mistaking her with Kelly Duncan Moore. The lead flight attendant who also survived the crash & has since married and has children and is doing well.
@@TheTraveler976 I could be, thank you for the correction 😊
I remember seeing the rescue live on TV. I have never forgotten.
I remember all the sad footage of the people swimming in that ICE COLD WATER!! The rescuers showed real balls getting in there trying to save them, they deserve all the praise in the world for that!
I watched on tv like the rest of the nation. Right from the start arm chair pilots guessed the plane had been iced up by the nasty weather.
They guy that flew the helicopter was amazing.
Co-pilot: Anti-ice
Captain: Off
DUMB PPL PUT ANTI ICE ON GOD SO U COULD LIVE OR JUST GET OF THE PLANE!!
I caught that, too. Strange reply, when they were recently worrying about ice.
ice on robs the engines of power, that was right, taking off past a holdover time/ with ice accumulation on the aircraft surfaces is a no go.
Dale Fry It was said he wasnt well educated about handling this types of weather and his lack in correct checklist callout.
I noticed this exchange between the crew as I was watching. I had obviously guessed by then that the ice would be an issue. They said that because they flew in florida mainly they weren't used to ice , but it did seem very strange to have anti ice off when the ice had been causing so many issues. Was there any reason (or advantage) at all to have anti ice off ? Anyone know?
I remember that evening quite well. Working in suburbs of Philadelphia and driving home in bad snowstorm. Traffic crawling, backed up, I was listening to 'news radio' for traffic when the report came on. Sad.
Fuck you
Chris Cai why?
Chris Cai Cai is how I spell my name 😀
My cousin died in that flight he was a lawyer in dc
Jacky Klasky
Sorry for your relative and the others who perished.
I can't imagine what you and his family went through.
May they ALL have eternal rest.
Our next door neighbor was supposed to be on that flight. He was on a business trip, waiting at the airport when his wife had him paged to a courtesy phone. She informed him she had wrecked his Porsche 911 and totaled it. I was a High School Senior and a gearhead, and remember how much he cared for that Porsche. He was so upset, he changed flights and flew back to Boston. By the time he got home, the horror of the crash was known to all of us. We talked with him and his wife the next day, he still had the paper ticket and boarding pass for AF Flight 90.
I don't know a thing about planes, but even I could tell that was a really stupid idea.
that pilot was a buthole!
if you're unsure about something then follow your gut feeling. there's no room for maybes or I'm not sure when you're a pilot.
Get-there-itis. If you think something doesn't feel right just stop. You may lose your slot but it's better than dying.
It could be argued that flying people all over the globe is man's most audacious triumph over nature in general and the laws of physics in particular. Huge multi-ton machines of nearly infinite complexity, capable of holding hundreds of people at a time, relying on automated systems to guide them vast distances through severe weather. And all with nearly no margin for error. It’s a testament to human ingenuity that flying is the safest way to travel.
No one has ever "triumphed" over the laws of physics.
John Richards why is it so though? Statistics do prove that flying is the safest way of traveling
@Richard G ...No one has ever "triumphed" over the laws of physics which is why we need to carry our environment with us.
/Lonewolf
@Richard G ...Thank you, but you should consult natural law too.
/Lonewolf
Well said
Amazes me how many of these disasters are completely avoidable. Most of it due to ignorance, thoughtlessness, failure to maintain aircraft, and failure to follow procedures
Yeah I've somewhat have thought the same especially when most pilots have hours of experience then things happen when shouldn't happen, at least in avoidable situations as this one but some crashes happen couldn't be avoided.
Same with road accidents it's just more memorable when it's an airliner
AGREED! No longer want to fly EXACTLY due to these things!
Don't forget how 'Experienced' they are. They throw that word around like it's supposed to mean something when They're the ones crashing the planes!
"You killed us Larry." "I know ... I know."
Jesus.
I remember this well...So very sad....RIP to all that perished.
Close Daniel. Almost 55.
Daniel Mcgreevy: Don't worry young one. Before you know it someone else will be calling you "old fart." Its like yesterday i couldn't wait to turn 18 and now i can't believe I'm already into mid-upper 30's.
God bless you Mr. Williams. I'll never forget your incredible heroism, your incredible sacrifice. I'd like to think I'd act as gallantly, and chivalrous as you did in any similar incident. I'd like to think that most men would. I pray that those who saw this unfold live on TV saw what you did. You're a true hero. I pray that you crossed over very quickly.
Addy's Grandpa Maybe during a thunderclap from a storm he's bowling a strike.
Flight Officer had TEN objections to flight, starting with wings and ice, then engines a few times, then take off roll and speed. The phucko captain kept ignoring his observations....and got mostly everyone killed. The wrong person was captain.
Yeah if if two people disagree in the cockpit the answer should always be go with whoever is most conservative and error on the side of caution
@@TheDjcarter1966 exactly. could have easily abandoned the take-off and reassessed the situation.
Should have mutinied, he KNEW it was all wrong.
I was in the U.S.A.F. for eleven yrs. & worked with pilots who had the inescapable mindset they were God( incapable of error). Invaluable or invariable? You decide. 😀
The first officer knew things were wrong. But was not assertive e enough. Probably hoping the captain would notice as well and support him. Especially when there was still time to avert take off😪
I live close to D.C. and the snow was hitting us like nobody's business. This in 83 my high school graduate year. We clearly was not going to school that day. Typically our area might, might get 1 storm a year. Most of our winters are in the upper 20's-40's blustering wind. Generally there's not much snow and when the new's reports that we might get hit with a noreaster people around here get crazy. They mob the food stores, it''s always bread and milk that goes first, tempers flare, Most people don't now how to drive in rain/snow days so accidents happen frequently on the Beltway. That's including the news reporter's constantly warning people "if you do not have to work please don't drive today" not exact verbatim but close enough. This was a very difficult crash for us because of the high amount of snow, the first responder's were having a difficult time getting to the 14st and potomac. I still remember the guy helping other people then going down. the lady being hosted up to the helicopter. It was too cold for their hands to close so gripping anything was not happening. I think the only reason there were any survivors at all was because the airplane hit the bridge first and most likely broke in half thus allowing those in tail section to have any chance at all. The airplane couldn't get enough lift and another problem is that they must turn to the left because of the restricted air zone for the White House. It's terrible to watch something happening in real time and not be able to help. Had I had my Ford Ranger it would have taken me a minimum of 15 minutes doing 70mph on a clear nice day with no traffic to get to that spot. Also the place where the plane went into there's only 1 road that'll get you close. That part of the bridge has traffic from Virginia that can easily get on the bridge as the Pentagon, Arlington Cemetery, Airport exit Entrance etc is right there. So it would have been easier for Virginia's first responder's to get there than D.C. I think K street has a fire department but D.C. traffic would have been snarled for sure. That was not a good day at all.
Captain Sulley: Not all heroes wear capes.
Arland D. Williams Jr.: AM I A JOKE TO YOU?
I remember that day very well. I was working in Arlington Virginia. We had heard a siren most of the morning before the crash. My co-worker said he'd wished the thing would finally shut up. Looking back on it now the siren seemed like a portent of what was to come. I stayed with a friend that night who had a car that looked exactly like one of those crushed on the 14th street bridge. She got calls all evening wondering if she was alright.
BTW, I noticed that there was a Boeing 747 in the taxi line-up waiting to take off. 747's do not take off or land at Reagan National airport.
I took off that day in a Corporate jet. It was belting the snow down. The only good thing, if there is such a thing, is that it had been real cold all day and it was a powdery snow, but falling heavily. As near as i can calculate, I was no more than 15 minutes ahead of them on takeoff and probably closer to 5 minutes. We knew nothing of the crash. Our flight department heard there was a crash and knew we were scheduled to take off from there at that time. It was snowing so hard that out flight phone wouldn't work. My wife saw the breaking news of a crash and it wasn't known yet what type aircraft it was. She was a mess until we landed at our home base and word got out that it wasn't us. I never had any idea so many people worried about me. God can only imagine what the families went through of those that didn't get home that terrible night. God bless them all. Especially those who risked their lives trying to save the people on board. There were some extremely hard working tough rescuers trying with all they had to save lives on that flight. Many unknown hero's. Those helicopter pilots deserve a tremendous amount of praise for their airmanship. God Bless Mr. Arland Williams for his gallantry of continuously handing the rope from the helicopter to other passengers to save them first and then he didn't have enough strength left to save his own life. I think naming the bridge after him was a great token of his memory. I just hope more people would know why the bridge bears his name. An eerie part of the whole thing is that my home base airport is bordered by the Potomac River and my home is only about 500 feet from the Potomac River. I will reserve my comments about the flight and crew for another day. They have been through enough.
hi terry we had to listen to the cockpit voice recording in recurrent training and the first officer's son was in our class going through initial training.. You sound like you also fly so you will understand this. They took off with the engine anti ice off. This caused the forward engine nose spinner where the input epr sensor is located ,to ice up. This in turn caused an incorrect epr indication . The epr indication was showing max power setting when the other engine indicators were showing 75 % N1 85% N2 and lower than normal egt and fuel flow. lower than normal. They fixated on the epr indicators and failed to cross check to see if the other indicators were in agreement. As it turned out 4 of the indicators were in agreement with each other but not with the epr gauge. Basically they took off with only 75% power. Simple fix disregard the epr gauge and push the power up to match the other 4 indicators to their respective normal take off settings. The first officer knew something was wrong , captain should have aborted the take off. I have had a few that didn't feel right and aborted. A mechanic taped over the static ports on a 727 with CLEAR packing tape , one time a wasp's nest about 4 inches inside the pitot static tube itself made for interesting airspeed indications. Happy flying
Your attention to detail is spot on. The New York Air DC-9 ahead of them was flown by Captain Mark Meyer, brother of my husband. Captain Meyer was interviewed extensively as to his decision to takeoff. This day was also Captain Meyer's birthday. Obviously all was well with his takeoff.
Any idea what he said to them?
Always look forward to your videos, Allec. Most I've seen on Mayday, and your video give the most intriguing dimension to these tragedies
which always serve to make flying safer.
I recently retired (Age 65 law) and after the MD80 I flew the 737 series for a couple of years. Regardless of the plane, if you're taking off and it's not working you push those thrust levers to the maximum. These guys did not do that I hear. The EPR Probes Ant-Ice heaters were off. We turn them on when there is any visible moisture (fog, clouds, rain, snow etc) and the temperature is at 10C/40F or lower. That powerful air flow passing through the front fan section forms ice fast. RIP for all on #90.
Such a tragic and sad story. RIP everyone!
this one gets to me because I remember watching the news on this day and was captivated by the heroics and unbelievable people who responded to help...
I was studying Arabic language at the Dept of State in Arlington then. They and the rest of government released everyone early afternoon due to the storm. The streets were clogged due to traffic volume and the accumulating snow on top of a layer of ice. It took a couple of hours just to get west on 395 to Alexandria where I lived. The first I heard of "a plane gone down in the Potomac" was on a local ham radio VHF FM repeater. WMAL 630AM didn't have anything on it initially, then was revealed that there was a commercial plane in the river, then that it had struck the bridge on the way down. Eventually I was able to get home and watch TV and the image I remember is the selfless hero who jumped into the river to grab the flight attendant who was thrashing around in the icy water of the Potomac, by that time delirious from the freezing temperatures. That fellow saved her life. Eventually the conversations of the pilots were published and as we find out in some of these crashes the pilots had actually observed something and started to get a bad feeling but pressed forward anyway. These two pilots were still quite young compared to most commercial Captains.
billsblots
Wow, thank you for the details, my friend.
I vaguely remember this.
The man who jumped into the FREEZING water to save the woman is true HERO!!!
Awesome memory of the day's events.
Larry Skutnik didn't save the flight attendant, it was the woman who had just lost her husband and baby son in the crash. She was half blinded by the jet fuel in the water, as well as being numb from the cold. The flight attendant, Kelly Duncan, was the second one saved, I think. She gave the lift vest to Nikki Felch, who was the last one saved.
Some heroic moves during this tragedy. The gentleman using a firehose to swim out to the survivors to at least inform them they've been noticed, he ran of of "line". The one individual diving in to save that girl who fell off the helicopter, that one man constantly passing the life ring then ultimately going under & dying. And this is just to name a few.
I’d attended a convention in D.C. the weekend before, and drove across that bridge several times. It was kind of chilling to learn of the crash only a couple of days after getting home. A friend who lived in the area had almost persuaded me to stay a few extra days. Had nightmares about being on that bridge when the plane crashed into it.
I watched the rescue unfold live on television that cold January afternoon.
We all did, pretty sure all the major networks covered it. Very sad. RIP
to the passengers.
Arland D. Williams was such a hero that day
I clearly remember when this happened, I live just a tad north of Washington DC. I will never forget seeing them people hanging on for dear life in that freezing water and a man diving into the water from the bank. And of course the older gentleman that saved several lives while eventually losing his, that is what heros are made of.
Living in DC I never knew why the bridge had this name...
Yes. An amazing and sweet man who gave himself up so others could live. ❤️❤️❤️❤️
My cousin happened to be one of the Airline Booking team that got people onto the flight, seeing as how the snow was expected to come in heavier, some folks were urgent to get out before then, and she helped families get transferred onto that flight, to fill empty seats. Afterwards she fell apart and had to leave the airline industry completely but it was a particularly hard time or her as she had gotten many of those folks onto that doomed flight and blamed herself for that. Of course, nobody could have possibly foreseen that happening, especially from her point.
But it was a major tragedy for a great many people, many of whom were never heard of.
F/O: Anti Ice?
Captain: Off
DC weather: Am I a joke to you?
I remember watching the coverage when I was a kid. Such displays of heroism.
if I had a company or a copyrighted item, and someone like Alec came along and produced these gorgeous attempts at keeping our past mistakes alive, for us to see how we've learned... no way would I be snobbish enough to take the little bit he earns... if any. Seems to me Alec should be doing those preflight safety videos airlines use right before take off. Then he could sue them for infringement.
But I AM biased... he did a video for me... I'm a fan for life.
I was @ Kessler AFB, Mississippi going to class when I heard about this tragic incident. Called home, D.C.b that evening and found out a subway car on the Red Line, near Metro Center, crashed tore open.1 fatality. Friday, the 13th of Jan., lived up to its name.
I remember this. I remember Skupnik diving in and saving a struggling stewardess. Like it was yesterday.
The 737 had broken into several large pieces upon impact. These were the nose and cockpit section, the cabin up to the wing attachment point, the cabin from behind the wings to the rear airstairs, and the empennage. Although actual impact speeds were low and well within survivability limits, the structural breakup of the fuselage and exposure to freezing water nonetheless proved fatal for all persons aboard the plane except those seated in the tail section. The National Transportation Safety Board concluded that the accident was not survivable.[4]:76-77,82 It was not possible to determine the position of the rudder, slats, elevators, and ailerons due to impact damage and the majority of the flight control system having been destroyed.
The National Transportation Safety Board determined that the probable cause of the crash included the flight crew's failure to enforce a sterile cockpit during the final pre-flight checklist procedure. The engines anti-ice heaters were not engaged during the ground operation and takeoff. The decision to take off with snow/ice on the airfoil surfaces of the aircraft, and the captain's failure to reject the takeoff during the early stage when his attention was called to anomalous engine instrument readings.[4]:82
The NTSB further stated:
"Contributing to the accident were the prolonged ground delay between deicing and the receipt of ATC takeoff clearance during which the aircraft was exposed to continual precipitation, the known inherent pitch up characteristics of the B-737 aircraft when the leading edge is contaminated with even small amounts of snow or ice, and the limited experience of the flight crew in jet transport winter operations."[4]:82 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Florida_Flight_90
de-iceing should never be an opption but automatic. Lets try an aviod the inevitable human error. A test of full flaps to confirm.
All they had to do was turn on the anti-ice, and then their heated probes would have provided them with accurate engine information. With that they would have climbed out normally. What amazes me is that they did not advance the thrust levers the moment the shaker activated, or at a minimum, when they were not recovering.
I just don't understand why at one point they were so concerned about ice but at 4:09 going through the checklist don't turn it on. Although maybe the ice was all on the back of the win, they couldn't see and thought it was cleared? Still it couldn't hurt, right? But with ice getting into the engine when they reverse thrusted and in turn screwing up their indicators it may not have mattered anyway as they seemed to just not have enough power and stalled. Might not have ever happened if the tug was properly equipped to start.
@@Mattribute Exactly right. Tests were performed (after the crash of course) in which the exact same conditions of contamination (snow on the wing) were re-created. Even after they limped into the air, had they simply firewalled the thrust levers the plane would have been able to climb out. While the snow on the wing was a factor, the Engine Anti-Ice selected to OFF was the real reason for the crash. The plugged (ice) P2T2 probes gave them erroneous Engine Pressure Ratio readings. The EPR gauges indicated proper thrust, but they weren't even close. Had they looked at their Fuel Flow and N2, they might have caught the error and advanced the throttles. A sad day in DC, and for commercial aviation.
@@Mattribute this true.
@@rt-uh6mt yes I'm with you on this.
Arland D. Willlams. I was only a child, but I will never forget watching this unfold and seeing one person hand-off that life-saving ring over, and over again. My dad, who worked in aviation, was watching, too and he touched the T.V. screen, pointing to the man, and we silently sat, riveted by the extraordinary actions of that man. I have thought about this hundreds and hundreds of times over the years.
Two heroes: The guy who jumped off the bridge, Mr. Skrupnik, while the others did not ( and violated their EMT training ) and passenger Williams who died helping others TO SURVIVE. He, and his family deserve the President's Medal of Honor posthumously for his actions.
Just to let you know sir, the Medal of Honor is for military. The Presidential Medal of Freedom is awarded to those civilians who risk their lives in the saving of others.
I have absolutely no aviation background but I find your videos fascinating.
It's great to know that I'm not the only person who likes air disasters... nice video.
Mr. Ghost my son likes it
Really thinking "interested in" is more accurate. I don't think anyone actually LIKES air disasters.
it's ok, god loves them, too ...
Ed Price of materials crew vt3 bbq breed Notre mutts mutts nitric jute hmmm ok
I'M NOT ALONE!
I watched this live as it happened in 1982 on television...to say the least it was heartbreaking watching that stewardess grasp for her life and the mother whose baby died also and that heroic rescue by the man from shore who went in that water and risked his life...I cry watching it again :-(
This one is really saddening. A gung-ho
cowboy pilot captain who invents his own procedures, and isn't into CRM. In combination with a F/O who doesn't dare initiating a RTO, in spite of his entire body telling him to. Sad. And so easily avoidable.
Uhhhhh....there was no such thing as CRM then.
Thank God all survived... those pilots are heroes fly high captain
Are you on drugs? 74 of the 79 died, you eejit.
Civilian airlines were deregulated in "79. The ultimate underlying cause of this disaster was the reckless corporate drive for greater profit. Those two pilots weren't experienced
flying in bitter cold weather. The Captain had no knowledge that using reverse thrusters
& the exhaust from the plane ahead would compound the ice problem.
Oh bullshit. There was no shortage of crashes even when the government was still controlling rates and routes
This was the first video I watched of yours, Allec. Was looking online about this disaster I remembered as a kid and saw this video. Have watched almost all of them over the past 1.5 years, or so...
The other planes waiting in line didn't have this problem?
They may have been de iced more recently, and probably had their anti-ice system ON. Also, they may have not tried backing out of their gates with reverse thrust
Former Air Florida dispatcher here. Not mentioned here in the video was the 737's issue with taking off with contaminated leading edges at flap position 1, which had been mentioned in previous Boeing publications as entailing the risk of pull-up/roll-off tendencies. The attempt to reverse thrust out of the gate undoubtedly contributed to such contamination. NTSB determined from analysis of the engine sounds on the CVR that they actually tookoff with 74% thrust, yet the EPR showed otherwise due to the blocked PT2 (from engine A/I off). In the November 1982 edition of Science Digest, pages 66,67,111, there is an excellent article by Drs. Trivers and Newton about the interface between PIC Wheaton and F/O Petit that all interested in aviation safety should read. Roger Petit's two sons, now long grown up, now fly for Southwest Airlines.
If the tug's tires are slipping on the ice when attempting to push the plane back from the gate, isn't that a good representation of how treacherous the ramp and runways are going to be? The pilot made some mistakes, but the airport should have been shut down before they were allowed to take off.
True
How were the runways treacherous?
If you have never complained about being late to take off, then go ahead, make nasty comments armchair astronauts. Otherwise go get a mirror and look at your contribution to the pressure to get planes off the ground in sub standard conditions. You complainers are just as stupid as this captain.
@@antispamman4795 Oh, you must be another Charles Lindbergh. My deepest apologies for offending your obvious sharply honed aviation intuition. Pardon me while I bow my head to contemplate just how infinitely more qualified you are to post a comment on a public message board.
The surface conditions of the apron is not representative of the runway conditions.
But if the tractor can't push, the correct decision is to stay put. Only a fool applies reverse thrust while stationary. There is no procedure for that.
Keep posting Allec, this takes a lot of work
F/O: Anti Ice?
Captain: Off.
❓
F it lets just get back to the sunshine state ..
My husband traveled to DC for a meeting that day. He wasn't looking forward to driving in rush hour. He would be on that bridge near the time of the crash. It was a long wait to know he made it home. No cell phones then. I'll never forget the man letting others be rescued first and him slipping under the ice. So sad for so many because they guessed what was okay instead of verifying conditions.
Thanks for the repost, Alec. Pilots, as part of their ground school, should be required to watch your vids & similar ones when studying ways to intercourse up flying a plane...
no they shouldnt
C'mon now.. they could maybe learn not to take off with frozen wings. So yes they should.
Bossman Agreed as fuck
We do i do deiceing in Boston
Bossman when winter operations approach this report IS shown in ground school and re-current training. In our initial ground school for the 727 we had a young man in class who's father was rhe first officer on that crash. Many peoples thought the reason the plane went down was ice on the wings WRONG When they de-iced the engine anti-ice is turned off and bleed air that supplies air to the cabin. When the de-ice was done the bleed air for the cabin heat and pressurization was turned on but NOT the engine anti-ice. There are sensors in the front nose cone on the engine and one in the back of the engine. These measure pressure differences between the two to tell how much power is being generated. We call this Engine Pressure Ratio or EPR. With the front nose cone becoming plugged with ice and the rear sensor working the computer is sensing high pressure in the back of the engine and low pressure in the front nose cone giving a false indication of high power or thrust output. On takeoff we look at EPR and N1and N2 N1 is a value given in percent of the max rpm of the large fan and N2 is a percent value for the inner part of the turbine. In other words if the max rpm is say for example 100 rpm and the computer is sensing 75 rpm then a value of 75% will be displayed on a gauge in the cockpit. When they took off the capt( who was an arrogant know it all) was focusing on the EPR gauge which was indication a false indication of 100% take off power but in reality it was only 75% of available thrust. If he would have listen to his First officer who called out "we only have 75% of N1 " which means the EPR gauge was lying and N2 was also below it's value for takeoff. Simple fix was to push the throttles up and monitor the N1and N2 gauges. Basically they took off with 25% less power that was required for climb out. Like going down the freeway pressing lightly on the gas pedal ad doing 40 or so with a tachometer only indicating 1200 rpm and the speedometer says you are doing 70 when normally the tach would read 3000 rpm at 70. Conclusion the speedometer is not right also confirmed was all the cars passing you and giving the middle finger salute. Hope this clears things up. How do I know> 25 years of flying airliners.
I remember this day. I grew up in a suburb of Baltimore about 40 minutes north of D.C. Once schools finally closed for the day I went outside to try and play in the snow but it was coming down so hard me and my friends could hardly see and we all decided to go home and wait for it to let up. I came into the house exhausted and took a mid afternoon nap. I had a horrible nightmare that I was being attacked on a plane that was going down. It woke me from my nap and as I went into the living room the news of the crash was on TV. That dream and that day are still very vivid in my mind.
Love your videos! But I had to laugh at 2:20 when I saw a 747 lined up for takeoff. The longest runway at DCA is 7,169 feet, so I don't imagine any 747s ever flew in or out of there.
Used to work that Airport, 757 is it cud handle.
Right, Malcom, nor the Eastern Lockheed 1011 that preceded Palm 90 in the video.
Malcolm I felt the same way about the 747 and the L-1011, but did anyone else notice the PSA MD-80 in line waiting to takeoff? Pacific Southwest Airlines never served DCA, nor any city east of Albuquerque as far as I can determine!
That Washington DC airport has always been a dangerous airport! Runway too short!
@@darensmith5674 Too short for what? Airliners have used that airport since it opened. Scores if not hundreds of flights per day for over 50 years. Can you name another accident at DCA because it was "too short"? I won't bother to wait because I already know the answer.
I lived in DC then. Office closed early due to the snow. Heard about the crash on the car's radio during the commute home. Very sad day.
The accident that ended Air Florida soon after, that and the fare wars that were going on.
As of 2020, of the surviving passengers, only Kelly Duncan, Joe Stiley and Priscilla Tirado are still alive. Priscilla lost her husband and baby in the crash and Stiley endured much physical pain for a long time after the accident.
I remember this fairly well. I was (on call) at Sibley Hospital. The snow was so deep, I wore my cross country skis to get to the hospital.
still on runway....."that doesn't seem right, does it? uh, that's not right. no, I don't think it's right. ah, maybe it is?"
i'm not a pilot, which is why i am asking, but was go/no go still an option at that point on runway and if so, why the hell would did they take the chance with go then??
dotcomnsense I’m sure they could’ve aborted at one point and should’ve if they were that unsure of their readings.
Below V-1 I believe you always have the option to abort the takeoff. I have been a crew member for 17 years and the only type of people I fear, are those with no confidence or whom can't process the basic ability to not question a initial reaction. The moment he noticed the engine indicators seemed off and at the same moment, it felt sluggish.
There should be nothing further happening beyond the abort being called out and performing the necessary procedures to stop the plane.
The worst that should had happened could have maybe been an unnecessary abort. Instead nearly everyone died because of blatant stupidity and clear lack of training.
@@FRANKL-o3c Yes you do have the ability to stop. As F/O Mr. Pettit did the right thing about speaking up. And as the PiC, he should have gone with his instinct.
They had been sitting in line to take off for over an hour. They'd have to go to the back of the line if they aborted. They were on their way to sunny Florida, and didn't want to take the chance of having to spend another night in snowed-in DC.
@@briansmyla8696 as a 737 and 757 pilot, I would rather ensure the safety of my aircraft and passengers then risk almost certain death by ignoring PROPER PROCEDURES.
I remember the survivors in that freezing, cold water wondering if any could survive while waiting to be rescued. Some amazing acts of heroism that day.
Failure to activate their anti icing equipment flat out doomed Air Florida Flight 90. They had no chance.
I flew on the very next Flight 90 home bound to Ft Lauderdale, about a week or two later. Passing over the unmistakable outline in the bottom of the river was terrifying.
Thanks for the reupload!
CAN YOU IMAGINE SURVIVING THE CRASH THEN DYING IN THE FREEZING WATER?
CAN YOU IMAGINE REPLYING TO A YEAR OLD COMMENT WITH A BUNCH OF WORDS THAT HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ORIGINAL COMMENT??
I CAN TOO!! BUT ONLY IF IT’S IN ALL CAPS TO SHOW I AM USING VOLUME!!! IT KINDA WORKS HUH?
boobam = fucking moron
boobam lol
One thing I will never fly in winter weather
I remember watching the rescue effort on TV when I was in high school. My mom just sat down and cried. 💔🥀
This crash would not have happened if the Cocky Air Florida Captain had done his job. All the poor souls he took with him paid the price for his fatal mistake.
John lawrence and any of us that flies could have the bad luck of having a narcissistic or haughty macho captain like that. We just have to pray that person is prevented from causing any accidents with us
It sits equally much with the F/O who did not do his job.
@@thefreedomguyuk No it doesn’t. The F/O was absolutely not at fault.
At the time, crewmembers were not allowed to question their captains; their will was final. The F/O made several attempts to advise the foolish captain about the icing but he did nothing.
What a blessed soul...thank you Mr. Arland Williams
He seriously thought De-icing his wings with the exhaust of the plane in front would work...
Southern pilot.
And the F/O did not dare to object....
man, i remember watching this on the news after school in Gary,Ind...i was 8yrs old then,wow
Really sad.
Thanks for your time and consideration to share.
Arland D. Williams Jr is such a hero
I remember a movie of this Arland was played by Donnelly Rhodes
I'll never forget this day, as I took my mother to National for a flight to Chicago at around 1PM. The weather was hairy all day, with snow mixed with freezing rain from noon on. That's the biggest problem they had with the de-icing that day, because the freezing rain immediately iced up on the wings. Pulling the plane in to the exhaust of the plane ahead was just a real bad move, because with the temperature holding right around 30, the melted ice just iced right back up again.
Even if it's a/an copyright it's still a sad story,we should be thank-ful that we weren't on that flight or one of our family members that we are close to that will give you something to say"Thank You Jesus!".
kani_nation mcharvin Jesus, really? If he was really there, do you think he would let people die and let planes crash? I for one don't think so and I think a lot of people who can contemplate about death would agree with me.
Cats Ftw
I UNDERSTAND your feeling but things happen for a reason. Jesus
is not the reason why people die and planes crash.
That's the devil. He did that so you would feel as you do... that Jesus let those people die.
When bad things happen it's the devil doing it so we can blame God. Don't fall for it!!
God gave up His only Son so we would have everlasting life not death. It's the devil, don't let him steal your "life "
It’s amazing in hindsight how much pressure we put on ourselves.
Old airplane and heavy snowstorm not a good combo
Back in 96' this was the first cvr i ever heard and was hooked on airplane disaster stories ever since.
Omg, this channel is brutal, I went from in love with flying to forget that these Pilots are idiots and that is coming from a US Navy Airman.
That's OK. A lot of US Navy Airmen are idiots.
Never forget that day. My best friend was working for Eastern loading passengers at WNA. I had gone back to Sarasota, Florida where I lived. She heard in her ear piece the Air FL had just crashed into the 14th St bridge, but not to show emotion as she sealed the door to the Eastern flight and walked back to her station at the airport. I was listening to the story of how hero Lenny Skutnik had rescued a FL girl named Priscilla Terada. I prayed for them all. I lost my Dad a couple months earlier. We were all 20ish. 81-82 were pretty horrible years. I hope the five survivors are still living. We were all young. My friend started a business and got married. Left the airport. Kelly Duncan was the flight attendant. The other surviving girl was Nicky Feltcher. I think about it once in awhile.
Not a bad depiction. On March 3,1991 I was in Colorado Springs when the United 737-200 nosed into the ground. Horrible Day. I remember how windy it was on that beautiful sunny day. Did you recreate that doomed flight?
Yes, I have sir. United 585.
head of trans Colorado airlines 2286
Eric that though was because the 'A' Flight Computer circuit boards had not been pushed all the way back in, and they were making intermittent contact which a malfunction told the rudder that it had gone too far the other way. Hence why the pilots controls would not respond when they tried to correct.
Thank you for posting this video. So much information we gain by talking about the chain of errors and mistakes made along the way. May they all rest in peace.
Please forgive me if I sound not too desirable, but I wonder if Jesus especially rewards those who die (with faith and trust in Him of course) in horrifying circumstances like drunk driving accidents or plane crashes while He welcomes them into His Father's heavenly kingdom?
Why didn't pilots abort flight if they sensed something was wrong?
Sounded like the FO was about to, but the captain stuck with it
I remember that day very well with the news coverage that day. We talked about that hero (Arland Williams) for days before we knew what his name was.
I don't believe that airlines should be allowed to fly when the weather is that cold, and visibility is not good.
Jason Carpp And of course NOT IN WINTER STORMS! Once again human error in the part of the crew AND airport traffic controllers and personnel.
Jason - temps are much colder at the altitudes these planes fly at, like sixty below zero. Once they get above the clouds, the "bad weather" disappears. Wind conditions can be dangerous at any time. What they needed to do was make sure the de-icing was also done on the exposed sensors, not just wings etc...
TedBronson1918 yea but the planes won’t get ice on them as they are moving in the air dude. Just sitting idle will cause ice to form bro
Air France 442 has something to say about that
Ted has never flown a plane of course lol!
Makes me feel like I’m on board when watching these videos 💐💐🙏🏾
I need a de-icing crew to warm my wifes heart
🙄
For some reason I was home from school that day. Either sick or a snow day, I forget which. But I was watching TV when they cut to this crash live, because it happened almost in front of a camera crew. It was just chilling to watch.
This plane should've never left the airport in the icy weather😥
Criket Duke They had to though.
It wouldn't have stalled immediately after takeoff if either pilot had followed the emergency procedure of applying full power.
Further: How do you account for the successful takeoffs before Palm 90?
Passenger jets safely fly in and out of Burlington, Vermont Airport all the time It has the equipment needed to maintain the strip no matter the weather, and the necessary equipment/supplies to keep planes safe and prepared. Only once can I recall the airport being shut down, and that was after an ice storm that coated the whole area, brought down trees and lines, caused many road accidents and made even stepping outside your home a danger. Any aircraft at the airport then would have been entirely and thickly coated in ice.
If a tiny Int'l Airport like Burlington can handle the problems responsibly and maintain an excellent safety record, then larger airports have no excuse.
If I live to be a thousand, I will never forget this disaster. This was the first time (that I can recall) that news crews were ON SCENE filming in real time. I will never forget the shocked look on the young woman's face as she tried and tried to get on the ice, only to fall into the water. IMHO, the flights should have been cancelled that day. Still there was no excuse for the pilot being an idiot.