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All you had to do was review toys tv shows or games. But you just can't keep your mouth shut. 80% of America can not stand biden, and you choose the bad guy. Some people on your channel are having a hard time buying groceries because of the guy you support. Unsubscribed.
@@tomkerruish2982 Yes, I agree with Sisko’s motivations. HOWEVER! That scenario just would not happen. At all. The Romulans would absolutely join the Federation coalition willingly.
Never watched it when it was on TV. I was a TNG Stan. It wasn't even on a spaceship. Then the pandemic hit and I saw a clip on RUclips of Sisko slaping Garak and I was intrigued. 3 weeks later after watching all 7 seasons I had a new favorite star trek.
@@unc0mm0n2 Understandable - I grew up watching next generation with my family, but DS9 ran though my junior year of high school. I was allowed to stay up late and watch it. Picard is my favorite captain. DS9 is my favorite series. The best of both worlds, you might say😬
Hardcore Niner here; Deep Space Nine was and still is my all time favorite Star Trek. Met Avery Brooks and Aron Eisenberg at conventions years ago and it was an absolute delight.
Got to meet several folks over the years, but heading to the What We Leave Behind screening at Paramount was the cherry on the cake... well, as was meeting Rene and Andrew (Robinson) there
My favorite too. It’s the workspace comedy Start Trek. Sure there was a terrible war, but the characters shined through, and it was the optimism and mercy of Star fleet that defeated the Dominion.
Sadly DS9 is the most misunderstood Star Trek series. Almost everyone who watched it later realized just how good it is but unfortunately it didn't receive the attention it deserved when it first aired.
season 1 was rough and then from season 5 and beyond went looking for every space shark to jump. I liked Babylon 5 better as both aired back to back but DS9 had some awesome characters. Its just a shame it took the writers quite a while to figure out how to write a single place story. DS9 could have been a lot better but what we got was pretty good just the pahwraiths thing was just to stupid.
@@vonshroom2068Lol Um, no. Babylon 5 was garbage. I tried watching it as a kid and I couldn't even get through an entire episode. DS9 didn't really blossom until the end of season 2. But season 5 through 7 were just classic. The Pahwraith stuff was great. Most episodes that featured them or the Prophets were pretty good. Sounds to me that you're just a Babylon 5 shill.
@@scinnyc You're telling me that when Dukat pulled a heelturn and went full blown maniacly evil out of the blue was the best part? Did we watch the same show? I have the same issue with Kira and the domnion. Kira having the biggest hate boner for Dukat to the point she's actually considering boning the man. O'Brian was the better Kira when it came to the Bajor vs Kardasia issue and all his experience was a small conflict compared to a planetary occupation. Odo merely linking up with the changelings ending the entire conflict by curing them was another issue considering the other factions were already breaking away from the dominions founders being god. Yet none voiced and issue or did anything with it. Instead Dukat out of the blue goes off to become the Bajoran devil despite him having had several arcs where he came to terms with himself and was on the path to redeem and attone for his actions. But my main issue is Sisko who should have been locked up and put to trial every few times per season. Section 31 or not he's done some public crimes against groups of people even entire planets yet starfleet was perfectly fine with it because he was the prophet i guess? B5 is not everyones flavor for sure but they stayed true to their characters and kept the story going after a rough season 1 and ending still solid on a sabotaged season 5.
@@vonshroom2068 You missed the entire reason of why Dukat was such a great villain. He teetered between "good" & evil for years until his true nature finally manifested itself. But Dukat was actually never good. It was all about trying to convice himself and others that he was...mostly Major Kira. All of this is revealed in the 6th season episode called "Waltz". Dukat was a complex villain with a lot of layers...but deep down, he was always a ruthless villain who saw Bajorans and other alien species as inferior and expendable. And if you like Babylon 5, more power to you. It had a strong following early on and I remember when it first aired and my mom's friend's son was really into it. But it just wasn't my cup of tea. I did have some of the Micro Machines ships from the series though
I still remember when Neelix being a creep with Kes on Voyager was one of the biggest letdowns in my nerd circle, those were good days. Hell, we even had the X-Files and Earth: Final Conflict on too. Now we have Discovery, thankfully ended, and The Acolyte, with everything else on hiatus.
@@grandmufftwerkin9037 Given what we found out later about Sisko being half wormhole entity, I've theorized that he actually hurt Q in a super dimensional way, so Q knew he wasn't dealing with a mere human and either lost interest or decided to not risk more serious injury.
@@SchlossRitterthe q were way more powerful than the wormhole aliens. They couldn’t exist outside the wormhole and they could be destroyed by chroniton radiation. And only speak in riddles.
In an age where episodic storytelling and fierce resistance to character and story growth and progression were the norm (especially in Star Trek), DS9's long-form storytelling was a breath of fresh air. And I would argue that there is nothing more Star Trek than facing issues and challenges to our sense of humanity, both in the mundane and in the more extraordinay sci-fi ways.
@@Smileybeeblevrox Please, _don't_ start that up. Whatever similarities the two shows started out with, they went in very different directions pretty straight from the start, I watched and loved _both_ shows; _Babylon 5_ was a serial Epic Space Opera with heavy Fantasy trappings, while _Deep Space 9_ was a darker exploration of the universe of _Star Trek_ with themes of war, religion, and recovering from a fascist occupation, and eased into more serialized storytelling as much as they could get away with it. They're both _rad_ shows and I love them both for their own qualities.
@@AaronLitz but similiarities can't be discounted either. I don't think anyone seriously copied anything on purpose but considering that writers generally like to talk about the things they write especially when trying to sell their idea I wouldn't dismiss that some ideas got passed around and got remembered later. And that tracks why they start off similar but then go in their own directions as it would only be the general ideas that would get stuck in someone's mind. Which is kind of how most creatives operate, there are so many who want to have their own spin on something or hear an idea and then develop it into their own probably forgetting where the initial kernel came from.
The difficulty with story arcs in modern TV is that the seasons have become a lot shorter due to production costs, so there's less time to build the setting or allow plots to unfold in a way that doesn't seem forced - DS9 was able to have breather episodes with isolated stories, in between episodes which fed into the wider plot arc
I'm currently watching DS9 for the very first time. I think it starts stronger than any preceding Trek before it. I'm on Season 4 at the moment and I'm presently under the impression that this is one of the best shows on television.
Season 4 is widely accepted as being a near perfect season of TV with few to n o bad episodes. Episode guides that tell you what episodes you must watch and what episodes to skip are generally like "watch all of season 4." I agree, but that being said, season 6 is, by far, my favourite season of DS9. I envy you and wish I could erase it from my brain to watch again for the first time.
It is one of the greatest stories ever told. You will enjoy how it gets better and better the end is absolutely epic. I envy you seeing it for the first time.
Hands down my favourite Trek show. The characters were wonderfully fleshed out from Worf's romance with Dax, Gul Dukat slowly going nuts, Damar going from villain to revolutionary and of course, Miles and Julian becoming BFFs. Of course it also featured my fave character Garak. Absolutely fantastic!
Damar went from freighter crewman to one-ship crusader, to right-hand man, to murderer/traitor-executor, to puppet leader of his people, to ragtag revolutionary who finally understood the errors of his ways and his former cherry-lensed views on the occupation of Bajor and Cardassian arrogant imperialism...and he wasn't even a main character until the end. That was a hell of a show.
@@johnhughes6487I think there's an even better joke they could make about Weyoun being technically multiple characters. Since we can't be sure how many of the Weyouns appeared on screen, we can't know how many Star Trek characters Jeffrey Combs has played.
Jeffery Coombs could possibly be called a shapeshifter with all the rolls he played (Brunt, Weyoun, Tiron), Weyoun however was not a shapeshifter. The joke may have landed better if worded differently
I would argue it is pretty self evident that DS9 took more than just a little inspiration from B5. The broad strokes are too similar, both in its depiction of war and its treatment of religion.
I call bullshit on Rick Berman denying any knowledge of Babylon 5 or its story arc. What's that old Hollywood saying? If you're going to steal...steal from the best.
@@destinycaptain247 to be fair, there were far more television options at that point than durying the TNG heyday. So many cable networks launched in the 90s, diluting ratings for almost everything.
Just to make things clear, DS9 was never close to "killing the franchise." 😅 It actually got pretty good viewership ratings until the end of its run, just not as good TNG
I didn’t really appreciate DS9 until I served a year in Kosovo. Then, after dealing with local power struggles and a cool conflict with no ‘good guys’ from a US post at Camp Bondsteel, it made loads more sense to me than TNG or VOY did.
DS9 was beautiful because its theme and central question was “now that you live in utopia, and have grand utopian ideals how willing are you to defend those ideals in war”? Are you willing to bend or sacrifice those beliefs in order to survive, or can you persevere AND hold on to your ideals? Perfectly encapsulated what Trek is all about. 🖖🏾❤
100% this. That's what I feel was so genius about the Dominion War arc, the writers introduced and did not shy away from the absolute ugliness, horrors and hopelessness of open war (as much as they could get away with on network TV anyway) but also consistently showed a Starfleet and Federation that was holding onto their ideals and identity by their very fingernails in the face of all that ugliness and horror and hopelessness.
@@Dargonhuman Yeah, But wouldn't it have been way better if the Federation turned out to be the bad guys and the bad guys (while still doing bad stuff) the good ones - Usually with no reason other than the writers ham-fistedly making it so? (God, do I hate 'Picard')
DS9 was the pinnacle of Star Trek. So much of the subjects of human existence, love, sexuality, war, suffering, redemption, honor....Deep Space Nine fully explored these subjects at a deep level nearly 30 years ago. Strong female protagonists, race and history, conflicting systems of economics, authoritarianism vs pluralism....its all there. Sometimes people forget what the series was really about.
The backstory of Sisko was amazing. This was such a character-driven show, and the stationary premise allowed the bad guys to be recurring and have their characters develop, too. My favorite Star Trek show, and character Captain Sisko. And Yes, I am a Niner! There was even a baseball themed episode, and the Deep Space 9 team name was "Niners".
When DS9 aired I was a kid and didn't like it very much. As an adult I can appreciate the differences and strengths. And DS9 definitely has the most action and battles of the old series. There's some interesting anecdotes about how Avery Brooks often had to fight to challenge black stereotypes like the absent father or to change his look. And it's nice that Jake Sisko doesn't just join Starfleet like you'd expect.
Brooks also protested the "Ocean's 11"-like holosuite heist episode (whatever it was called, I forget) as it was originally written, pointing out to the producers/writers that in the time era the heist was set in, black people were not welcome at finer establishments such as the one being portrayed, which led the writers to give Sisko a speech in the episode about that. And, he directed "Far Beyond the Stars", which as you probably already know is a stand-out episode in Star Trek, dealing with racism and bigotry against black people. And he starred in "American History X", which is an excellent and very thoughtprovoking and intense movie. Also, he is said to have formed a very tight relationship with Cirroc Lofton (who played Ben Sisko's son Jake in the show, for anyone not in the know), being a sort of nurturing mentor and father figure for Cirroc from what I understand, which I always thought was really sweet and admirable. :) And then there's loads more of course. So the guy is basically as much a fighter for his causes and as well-informed in real life as Ben Sisko ever was on screen... Brooks not your average run of the mill actor, that's for sure. :)
I'm definitely a "Niner." I embraced the movies and "Next Generation" was a great series, but DS9 was my favorite series because it was so different but still knew that it was in the "Star Trek" universe.
I knew that Alexander Siddig’s epic full name is Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abdurrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi, but I only learned just now that his mom was Malcolm McDowell’s big sister.
You forgot to mention all the completely true and canonical facts about Captain Benjamin Sisko: Captain Sisko once shot down a Dominion warship by pointing at it and saying “bang” The planet Romulus wasn’t destroyed by a supernova. Captain Sisko jumped out of the orbiting Defiant and punched the ground. Captain Sisko once threw a photon grenade and killed 50 Jem’Hadar soldiers. Then the grenade exploded. When Captain Sisko jumps in a pool, he doesn’t get wet. The water gets Captain Sisko. The Prophets didn’t understand linear time until Captain Sisko punched them into next week.
At the time it looked like it. My family has a lot of Trekkies in it, and when DS9 premiered I was the only one not saying "I ain't watching that trash." I remember loads of opinion pieces in the newspapers (remember those?) of people complaining Star Trek was dead and DS9 killed it.
I mean, Treks viewership numbers consistently dropped on average after TNG wrapped, until the Enterprise finale. Dunno if it almost killed it, but it certainly started a trend that killed it on TV for a while.
@@Plapradthat lasted about a season. It was getting solid ratings in subsequent seasons until syndicators started shuffling it around the schedule just as it became more serialized. It was timeslots that hurt the show and the franchise.
@@Plaprad I wouldn't say DS9 killed Star Trek, but it's clear that once TNG went off-air and DS9 took over, a lot of viewers started to lose interest in Star Trek, viewing figures continued to decline, so much so that Paramount got desperate with some of the more radical story telling on Star Trek, the dominion war, bringing Seven of Nine in VOY, because they needed to bump viewing figures up, they were trying all sorts to try and bump viewing figures, until they give up after ENT series. The irony is, TNG had a bad start, and a lot didn't think a new crew could replace the original, but for many, TNG ended up being better than the original for many and Star Trek was really popular just before TNG ended, so much so that that everyone was shocked they took it off-air with how popular it was. With that said, I enjoyed DS9 when watching it as a kid, but it wasn't hard to see the flaws on why Star Trek ended up in decline, mainly because the vision of Star Trek changed into a darker, more moody Trek, which went against everything that Star Trek was all about, and Star Trek went downhill ever since to what we have today. Star Trek needs to get back to basics in what made Star Trek great in the first place with TOS and TNG, whiles giving it a modern take, a continues story line and a brighter, more well lit future, which is really what Star Trek was all about in the first place.
DS9 made Star Trek go from a mythos to a genre. It wasn't just a story, it was a setting. Personally, I appreciated that a black man could not only exist in space, but also be in charge AND be a loving family man... And in the 90's, that wasn't as common of a representation. It even helped me humanize crony capitalist with a non-cartoonishly evil protrayal of the Feringi. It had layers, which made a intergalactic space story seem more real. The cherry on top was that he's from New Orleans, and my first watch thru was when I had evacuated from Katrina. This show is special, and I'm glad to have witnessed it. Thank you for the video. 🙏🏿
Thanks for this one- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine is my favorite Trek series after Classic Star Trek. It tackled more serious issues like Religion, Politics and War (the latter especially during the Dominion Conflict). And Starfleet does have military role. Avery Brooks’ more stern command style was a good contrast from Capt. Kirk’s relaxed, confident behavior and Capt. Picard’s paternal demeanor. The cast was one of the best. My fave characters include The Emissary, Major/Colonel Kira (Nana Visitor was and remains beautiful, especially so when Kira was a redhead), Quark, Odo and Worf. Hard to decide between Jadzia and Ezri, though. Comparisons to Babylon 5 are inevitable, but both were good shows in their own right.
😂 when was star trek g rated? TNG had people exploding in season one and later crusher boned a candle ghost. TOS frequently had sexual assault and literal jack the ripper.
@cf8023 In it's own way, TOS was full of horrific moments. Off the top of my head: in "The Ultimate Computer", Scotty and his engineering assistant are ordered to deactivated the M5 unit. Engineering guy grabs a tool and goes to the wall socket that M5 is plugged into. A laser beam errupts from nowhere and instantly reduces engineering dude to nothing. There's no fanfare. The guy doesn't even get to scream. He's just instantly vaporized while about to do his duty. It's an image that has stuck with me my whole life.
I came into DS9 in 1996 after watching "Trials and Tribblations." I have been a fan of the show thanks to reruns on ABC 45 and brand new episodes on UPN 48. I love Quark and Odo's rivalry as well as Jadzia Dax. Jeffrey Combs was the MVP of Star Trek DS9 and other series.
Thanks for including that Star Trek The Experience commercial! I was surprised with a graduation present to go to the Las Vegas Hilton and experience Star Trek The Experience! One of the highlights of my teenage years! I loved that entire place! I stayed inside Quarks Bar all day! I’m so sad it no longer exists!
Same. My parents took me there when I graduated and we went on the motion simulator ride at least a dozen times. That was in 2001 (Sept. 10 to be precise... yea the next morning killed the vibe) so I never got to do the Borg one later, and I still regret that.
Fun fact about the animated series, many of the episodes are direct adaptations of existing science fiction stories, like one episode based on a Larry Niven story, it replaced the puppeteer and human characters with Spock and Kirk, but kept the cat like alien, which ended up pink. I haven't watched many of the episodes, but that one i had actually read the story it had adapted, so it was neat and a little weird, especially with Spick acting like a puppeteer.
One thing that hurt the ratings of DS9 and TNG is that in many places it was aired on Fox. Fox hates sci-fi and makes an effort to kill series it gets by putting them in horrible time slots where they will be interrupted by sports that never end when they are supposed to. In my area Voyager had a big advantage over DS9 because it was on UPN.
"If you buy Babylon 5, you can't have Deep Space 9." That cracked me up because the Fox station that ran DS9 in my region was the same station that ran Babylon 5.
I don't get the fanboys who dig in for one show or the other - cake is great; however loving cake isn't going to stop me from loving pie also! If I love cake AND pie, I get twice the yummyness! Why on earth would I pick one show and dis the other? Makes no sense. B5 and DS9 are tremendous TV shows each in their own way. Just like I always loved Star Wars AND Star Trek (another weird dork war that never made sense to me.)
@lennyvalentin6485 I have a friend who wears a shirt that says Star Trek in the Star Wars logo design. When it pisses someone off she does the Vulcan salute and says "May the Force be with you." It kills me every time.
I like most _Trek_ but _Deep Space Nine_ remains my favourite. The things I like about it, the long form narrative and recurring characters, are the same reasons I also really like _Stargate._
11:01 "René Auberjonois mostly known for playing Clayton on Benson" : I'm not one who likes to employ (old) memes, but - Boston Legal: "am I a joke to you?" 😋
I didn't care for the early DS9's but by the time Babylon 5 got dull (post Shadow War), the Dominion War was just starting so I got the best of both shows! 👍
DS9 and X-Files was ahead of it's time when they was doing serialized episodes. People complained back then but complain now if shows are not serialized.
In fairness, the complaints back then about serialization were legit as, outside of VHS recorders and something called TiVo that no one knew what to make of (and didn't come out until 4 years into DS9's run), there were no viable ways to catch up on a serialized show if you missed a few weeks, short of waiting for summer reruns and even then hoping you were able to be home to watch the episode(s) you missed - but that also meant not watching the rest of the current season until well after the finale and avoiding people talking about it at work/school or while hanging out. On the flipside, also to be fair, these days, with "seasons" of shows being between 6-12 episodes as opposed to the 28-30 episodes back then, anything that doesn't move the plot forward or develop a character is seen as wasteful filler. With a 28 episode run, you can stop the main story (actually you kind of _have_ to stop the main story) for a standalone story that has nothing to do with anything several times and still have enough episodes to finish out the overarching story, as X-Files did frequently. But, when the show only has at most a dozen episodes, any episode not about the overarching story means that story arc has to be crammed into an even shorter run time.
I've been a Star Trek Fan since seeing Wrath of Khan in the theater as a kid and watching TOS with my Father. That said DS9 has been my favorite Star Trek Series since it's 3rd season.
DS9 probably had the best overall character development of any of the series. Each character got focus and grew. Unlike say...voyager which only really focused on Doc, Janeway, Seven...and occasionally Paris, Tuvok, then the rest.
That's because it was clear that the writers had no idea what to do with the rest of the cast, as some of the worst episodes of Voyager were the ones that weren't about Doc, Janeway and Seven, particularly the Chakotay and Paris episodes for some odd reason.
@@Dargonhuman lol chakotay's focus eps were prob the worst. Whenever i do a rewatch i either skip them or just put it as background. like Tattoo...that boxing one...or when he's trying to help that lizard prove humans exist...didn't help they hired that fake Native american consultant😅
As a life long Trek fan, I can find something to like or love about every iteration of Star Trek. That said, I consider Deep Space 9 to be the best series overall, though Strange New Worlds is certainly making a run for that title. While I love the exploration of TOS and TNG, DS9 regularly put the members of the federation in situations that challenged their beliefs and their structures. Instead of a captain giving an angry speech at some aliens then going back to his ship full of people who agreed with him, the federation staff on DS9 were constantly surrounded by other cultures, including many that disliked or outright hated the federation and found their ideals laughable. This created an interesting dynamic where we weren't just expected to passively accept that the federation was perfect (and yes there were episodes in TOS and TNG that explored this, but it was often quickly moved on from). The move to serialized storytelling greatly improved the series. The first couple of seasons had their rough moments, but then that is true for nearly every Star Trek show in existence. The first two seasons of TNG contain some of the worst episodes of the entire series. Most Star Treks struggle for a couple of seasons, find their footing or their voice and then move on. I feel like people with rose coloured glasses began to forget this and while Star Trek fatigue may have been real, I think in some cases Trek fans were abandoning ship too early on some of the series. Really, Strange New Worlds seems to be the only Star Trek series that hit the ground running. Overall though, Deep Space 9 will always be an incredible addition to Star Trek.
Man I loved this era... TNG was getting long in the tooth and it seemed every network was trying to make the replacement. Babylon 5, Space Rangers, Sliders, etc... we need another big hit scifi show to stir up those creative juices again. Maybe Fallout if it goes a few more seasons will give us a bunch of post apocalyptic inspired stuff. Great video as always!
Trek has always been a rollercoaster of quality, ups and downs, highs and lows, and even "loop-the-loops" (and any number of alternative spellings) in terms of doubling back on, and repeating, narratively and success/failure. Regardless of all that, DS9 is not the culmination of all that is Star Trek, nor was it the most successful entry in the franchise.
@@orinanime It has the overall best storyline, character development, and episode consistency. I love TNG, but there were a lot of stinkers throughout the series.
@@igrim4777 LD has some, SOME, good moments. But 90% of that show feels like Star Trek meets Family Guy. Which is odd considering Seth McFarlane's Orville feels more like actual Star Trek (though season 1 is more like Galaxy Quest).
In the late 00's Terry Farrel lived in Hershey Pa where I live and work. I ran into her once in Giant Supermarket but didn't say anything. I was legit starstruck as she IS that beautiful in person.
Funny side story: I saw a clip from B5 where Sheridan enters stage right and asks for an admiral from a previous episode. The script version had the admiral dead by an ambush but since the actor also played an admiral on Star Trek they had a joke take. "Where's Admiral Halsey? He's on Deep Space 9. His agent double booked him." One thing I'd add is how an infant internet affected shows like DS9 and B5. AOL forums, Prodigy bulletin boards kept a level of engagement and interest not seen before.
I loved DS9 because, while it didn't have the same lighthearted feel, it did walk the edge between star trek and a departure from its norms. Babylon 5 certainly felt like a cleaner show overall, but DS9 just was so expressive, and had so much variety to it. Not to mention it is intentionally comedic throughout, every character is so idiosyncratic and they all clash so wonderfully.
Full disclosure, I enjoyed both DS9 and B5, they are both great shows and scratch different itches fir me. But, everything that JMS said in that clip is completely untrue. No, Paramount didn't threaten stations that they couldn't have DS9 if they took B5, Brandon Tartikoff wasn't even an exec at Paramount when JMS shopped B5 to them in '89, Warner Bros and Paramount having competing networks doesn't matter one bit because DS9 was never on UPN (Voyager was) and in fact Paramount hated DS9 for competing with Voyager, Paramount didn't have to tell anyone B5 would look "cheap and terrible" because it did look "cheap and terrible" (it's a great show despite the shoestring budget). The real reason Warners didn't sue Paramount is because they didn't have a leg to stand on. JMS is well-known to be a huge TNG fan and the real reason DS9 and B5 have similarities is because JMS was inspired by Star Trek and DS9 is directly based on Star Trek. Any similarities there are is due to cultural influences, sci-fi and Star Trek tropes in both shows, and a logical extension of where a sci-fi space opera like TNG could go in a new show. That clip is also really old and I understand JMS doesn't make those claims any longer and has softened his stance a lot.
By the way, long overdue but your introduction logo and static looks incredible. Props to whoever made that. (Great video overall too… thanks as always)
Terry Farrell and Nicole DeBoer each deserved better. Terry deserved to have better-faith negotiations and deBoer deserved better circumstances to join the show on. I can only hope that Ezri lives longer with the symbiont than Jadzia did.
@@DavidDouglas-q7v I’m a little ehhhhh on Ezri and Bashir’s relationship considering how he pined for Jadzia (and again, the untimely death when she was so good with Worf) but it at least doesn’t make the show worse or have a sour note to end on
What was especially egregious was that on the last episode every major character got a quick little flashback montage spanning the different seasons, all except Jadzia Dax. Heck, Worf's flashback only shows him coming to the station, a couple of other clips, and then some interactions with Ezri Dax. Not one scene of him and Jadzia courting each other or getting married. Terry Farrell's contributions to the show are completely ignored and forgotten. Makes it hard for me to watch that final episode.
@@RyanAlcantaraThe lack of flashback to Jadzia was because the producers weren’t able to obtain Terry Farrell’s permission to use her likeness in the montage. It wasn’t an oversight or deliberate omission; they wanted to use clips for the montage and didn’t have the opportunity.
@@RyanAlcantara I think in my first watch the episode that elevated the series for me was the one where some wingnut demanded the Dax symbiont be transferred to him…just to have its benefits? And that experience later on where Odo got Curzon in him, it was BEGGING for an equivalent Avatar episode (though Unalaq and Vaatu made that way more difficult by wiping away the access to everyone else), even from a 2018 perspective
I love that you guys have been covering Trek. When/if you cover voyager, enterprise, or any other Trek show, I'm happy to volunteer as a fact checker or answer any questions y'all may have. I am kind of obsessed with Star Trek and constantly rewatching the shows. It's actually a problem 😅
What I found interesting about DS9 was that it was a Trek show where humans were in the minority instead of the majority. If you meant that the show featured characters that BEHAVED in the most human way, I strongly agree. For example, before this show, I never took the Ferengis seriously. Not only did this show changed that perspective for me, I felt that the Klingons were more three-dimensional than they were even in TNG and the Cardasians, while starting out as evil, changed into heroic characters near the end of the series (except for Gul Dukat, of course).
@@DavidTSmith-jn5bs I said most human but I guess the better way to describe it that they are more like real people not just Characters the Klingon's were expanded upon, The Bajoran's had their own culture and beliefs then the Ferengi, The Cardassian even the Villains with the Dominion and the changelings it all went beyond one dimensional which was we have seen in TNG and on the original series.
@@fredsorre6605 I know that's what you said but my point expanded on the idea that even in Trek, humans were in the majority (including human-looking aliens) and DS9 was the exception.
This was great, however there were more controversies; Paramount, and to some extent Rick Berman did not have a great relationship with the female stars. During the 4th or 5th sesson of TNG, Marina Sertis says she started smoking again after contact negotiations broke down. Meanwhile the male leads got everything they asked for. During the sixth season of DS9, Terry Farrel was 'handed a contract, told not to read it as it wasn't a negotiation, and that without them she would be working at Target' - at which point she called their bluff and left. Meanwhile the male leads were taken to lunch and asked what would they like to return.
IDK why but the moment when a gangster threatens to cut off Quarks thumb in "Who Morns for Morn" (for people who haven't seen the episode, believe me, it's hilarious) is one of the funniest bits I've seen in a long time!
That one and the one where Quark tries to have himself killed to not break a contract then complains about every single method of dying are some of my favorite Quark episodes. Oh, and the one where Quark and Odo are trapped on a planet and have to work together to survive.
@@Dargonhuman Both of those are classic Quark moments! There's also when Quark, Rom and Nog accidentally go back in time and "The Magnificent Ferengi" episode.
@@cinemaarts8795 oh yes that's also a great one, though I don't consider it specifically a "Quark" episode as Rom and Nog both had equal great moments. That was more of a family episode in my mind.
I wore my Niners shirt to work yesterday. I have a tattoo of the station on my wrist and the symbol for the Klingon/Cardassian Alliance on my shoulder. Deep Space Nine is the best Trek.
@@nobodyimportant2470: To try and take (or bend?) a page from another comment thread-- Bubblegum refuses to be chewed by Sisko because it'd rather see him kick more ass. (Not sure if that's any good, but I'm far from just a "simple tailor".)
As the first post-cold war Star Trek DS9 was a great juxtaposition to the optimism of TNG. That war is far messier than just fighting, a country in healing can make a lot of conservative and harmful decisions, and that where bureaucracy fails sometimes you need to violently defend the utopia you profess to uphold. One of my favorite episodes is Sanctuary where Bajor refuses to take on super farmer refugees in their blasted wastelands because "Bajor is for Bajorans" and it hits really close to home even 30 years later. Kira reluctantly agrees to their decisions, you rarely see that kind of flawed character in any other Trek.
In a world of record-high inflation and grocery prices out of hand, Magic Spoon is a cereal company that charges $9 or so a box -- some $4 higher than all other cereal brands.
The only thing I really didn't like about DS9 was the religious stuff. Specifically that nobody EVER confronted Kira when she got all spiritual and "I'm just a meat-puppet of the Gods". Roddenberry must have been spinning in his grave.
My, hands down, favorite pop culture property of all time. Berman had a great quote: “Star Trek always seemed like Connecticut and I wanted to see Brooklyn.”
DS9 hit at exactly the right point for me. I was still pretty young when TNG began, so I liked it, but it was just kind of there. Then by the time DS9 hit I was well into being a teenager (age 15 in 1993 to age 21 in 1999) and beginning my expanding fascination with culture, religion, and politics. DS9 responded by being the Star Trek ABOUT that. It wasn't the Enterprise swooping in and solving the aliens' problem and swooping back out, usually with some glib thing about deities being robots with poor self-esteem or something. It forced the crew to stay there and deal with long-term cultural difference, inter- and intrapersonal conflicts, and political realities. In so doing, it pushed Roddenberry's utopian vision as far as it could go to see how it reacts under pressure. The whole thing was catnip to me during my emergence into adulthood and it remains my favourite Star Trek.
Armin Shimerman said in interviews that was the specific reason he took the role of Quark, since he played the Ferengi leader in TNG's "The Last Outpost" and always felt bad for his involvement in that portrayal of the Ferengi - he felt his portrayal of Quark was a redemption of sorts and helped alleviate that guilt
I started watching DS9 when it premiered, but yeah the darker tone and constant in-fighting of the characters became annoying and didn't feel like "Star Trek" to me (I read even Majel Barrett-Roddenberry was opposed to how far it strayed from the Star Trek premise). I also didn't like Avery Brooks' acting, he felt too "theatrical" (even more so than Patrick Stewart) and felt out of synch with the rest of the cast's acting and the type of show it was. When the Dominion War storyline started it did feel ALOT like Babylon 5, with even the names of the shows being similar; Common sense can tell you someone ripped off someone. So yeah that's when I stopped watching DS9, watched most of B5, then tuned out of ST for a while except for the Next Generation films, and fairly recently with Picard.
Posted fifty-two seconds ago. That's something you don't see every day. I'd say DS9 is the best written of the five Star Trek series. Each of the characters were written as individuals and sometimes you can guess how they would react in any given situation. As much as I like Voyager, the characters there were pretty interchangable.
You need to learn to count. There are eleven Star Trek series that have been produced. Let me list them for you. Star Trek Star Trek: The Animated Series Star Trek: The Next Generation Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - My personal favorite of all Star Trek series Star Trek: Voyager - My second least favorite of all Star Trek series Star Trek: Enterprise Star Trek: Discovery Star Trek: Picard Star Trek: Lower Decks - An excellent animated series with quite a few funny moments. I do wish it relied less on fan service for its humor, though. Star Trek: Prodigy Star Trek: Strange New Worlds As you can see, that makes eleven Star Trek series that have been produced not counting the Short Treks. Perhaps you should consult with a doctor to check for memory loss and cognitive decline. Forgetting that six other series have existed is quite the problem considering how high profile the franchise is and the fact that you watched and enjoyed five of them. One would think that you'd be aware of the other six.
As a kid who only occasionally watched TNG reruns, I was always really confused whenever Deep Space Nine or Voyager came on. Never knew what the hell was going on.
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They sell this cereal at WalMart for 8 dollars a box. I don't believe anyone actually buys this stuff.
This cereal tastes like chemical coated cardboard. I gave it a try since the zero sugar but it is horrible. On top of the taste the price is 4x+ the price of brand name cereals per oz. Frosted Flakes 21.7 oz box is $4.48 or .$.20 an oz Magic Spoon is 7oz box at $8.47 or $1.21 (so in this case 6x the price)
Why do you have TDS bro? Trump ain't do anything to you, need to chill man.
All you had to do was review toys tv shows or games. But you just can't keep your mouth shut. 80% of America can not stand biden, and you choose the bad guy. Some people on your channel are having a hard time buying groceries because of the guy you support. Unsubscribed.
You have been exposed baby killer
Garak is my favorite Trek character of all time. That simple ‘tailor’ single handedly saved the Alpha quadrant.
Plain, simple Garak.
Garak and Quark made that show. It had a great cast with solid chemistry all around, but those two... oh, those two...
@@philliptivis3082 “Just like the Federation.”
And all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal, and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer.
@@tomkerruish2982 Yes, I agree with Sisko’s motivations.
HOWEVER! That scenario just would not happen. At all. The Romulans would absolutely join the Federation coalition willingly.
I love that people are still making deep space nine content.
It didn't almost kill the franchise - it made it realistic.
@@poolhall9632 And the show’s been a lot better received now than it was when it aired.
I personally prefer the inspiration for the show but this is a close third best sci-fi, B5 (the inspiration I mentioned) and SG1 are the others.
Never watched it when it was on TV. I was a TNG Stan. It wasn't even on a spaceship. Then the pandemic hit and I saw a clip on RUclips of Sisko slaping Garak and I was intrigued. 3 weeks later after watching all 7 seasons I had a new favorite star trek.
@@unc0mm0n2 Understandable -
I grew up watching next generation with my family, but DS9 ran though my junior year of high school. I was allowed to stay up late and watch it.
Picard is my favorite captain.
DS9 is my favorite series.
The best of both worlds, you might say😬
This!
Hardcore Niner here; Deep Space Nine was and still is my all time favorite Star Trek. Met Avery Brooks and Aron Eisenberg at conventions years ago and it was an absolute delight.
Got to meet several folks over the years, but heading to the What We Leave Behind screening at Paramount was the cherry on the cake... well, as was meeting Rene and Andrew (Robinson) there
Wow, you saw Rene before he passed.... I'm jealous.
My favorite too. It’s the workspace comedy Start Trek. Sure there was a terrible war, but the characters shined through, and it was the optimism and mercy of Star fleet that defeated the Dominion.
It's absolutely my favorite Star Trek show, and always will be.
Qa'Pla!
Sadly DS9 is the most misunderstood Star Trek series. Almost everyone who watched it later realized just how good it is but unfortunately it didn't receive the attention it deserved when it first aired.
True
season 1 was rough and then from season 5 and beyond went looking for every space shark to jump.
I liked Babylon 5 better as both aired back to back but DS9 had some awesome characters.
Its just a shame it took the writers quite a while to figure out how to write a single place story.
DS9 could have been a lot better but what we got was pretty good just the pahwraiths thing was just to stupid.
@@vonshroom2068Lol Um, no. Babylon 5 was garbage. I tried watching it as a kid and I couldn't even get through an entire episode. DS9 didn't really blossom until the end of season 2. But season 5 through 7 were just classic. The Pahwraith stuff was great. Most episodes that featured them or the Prophets were pretty good. Sounds to me that you're just a Babylon 5 shill.
@@scinnyc You're telling me that when Dukat pulled a heelturn and went full blown maniacly evil out of the blue was the best part? Did we watch the same show? I have the same issue with Kira and the domnion. Kira having the biggest hate boner for Dukat to the point she's actually considering boning the man. O'Brian was the better Kira when it came to the Bajor vs Kardasia issue and all his experience was a small conflict compared to a planetary occupation. Odo merely linking up with the changelings ending the entire conflict by curing them was another issue considering the other factions were already breaking away from the dominions founders being god. Yet none voiced and issue or did anything with it. Instead Dukat out of the blue goes off to become the Bajoran devil despite him having had several arcs where he came to terms with himself and was on the path to redeem and attone for his actions. But my main issue is Sisko who should have been locked up and put to trial every few times per season. Section 31 or not he's done some public crimes against groups of people even entire planets yet starfleet was perfectly fine with it because he was the prophet i guess?
B5 is not everyones flavor for sure but they stayed true to their characters and kept the story going after a rough season 1 and ending still solid on a sabotaged season 5.
@@vonshroom2068 You missed the entire reason of why Dukat was such a great villain. He teetered between "good" & evil for years until his true nature finally manifested itself. But Dukat was actually never good. It was all about trying to convice himself and others that he was...mostly Major Kira. All of this is revealed in the 6th season episode called "Waltz". Dukat was a complex villain with a lot of layers...but deep down, he was always a ruthless villain who saw Bajorans and other alien species as inferior and expendable.
And if you like Babylon 5, more power to you. It had a strong following early on and I remember when it first aired and my mom's friend's son was really into it. But it just wasn't my cup of tea. I did have some of the Micro Machines ships from the series though
Some of us watched both DS9 and Babylon 5, or as we were called at the time, nerds.
Yeah, Babylon 5 on Sunday afternoon and DS9 on Monday night. Eating good as a Sci-fi fan.
I still remember when Neelix being a creep with Kes on Voyager was one of the biggest letdowns in my nerd circle, those were good days. Hell, we even had the X-Files and Earth: Final Conflict on too. Now we have Discovery, thankfully ended, and The Acolyte, with everything else on hiatus.
🙋🏼♀️
🙋🏽♂️ indeed.
If you ever ask yourself Kirk or Picard? remember that Sisko nuked a planet to demonstrate that if you F around, you're gonna find out. 😉
punched Q in the face too.
@@RahhmiPoofs
And he never came back.
He didn't nuke it, he used a bioweapon
@@grandmufftwerkin9037
Given what we found out later about Sisko being half wormhole entity, I've theorized that he actually hurt Q in a super dimensional way, so Q knew he wasn't dealing with a mere human and either lost interest or decided to not risk more serious injury.
@@SchlossRitterthe q were way more powerful than the wormhole aliens. They couldn’t exist outside the wormhole and they could be destroyed by chroniton radiation. And only speak in riddles.
In an age where episodic storytelling and fierce resistance to character and story growth and progression were the norm (especially in Star Trek), DS9's long-form storytelling was a breath of fresh air. And I would argue that there is nothing more Star Trek than facing issues and challenges to our sense of humanity, both in the mundane and in the more extraordinay sci-fi ways.
A breath of fresh air because it was how Babylon 5 did things.
@@Smileybeeblevrox Please, _don't_ start that up. Whatever similarities the two shows started out with, they went in very different directions pretty straight from the start, I watched and loved _both_ shows; _Babylon 5_ was a serial Epic Space Opera with heavy Fantasy trappings, while _Deep Space 9_ was a darker exploration of the universe of _Star Trek_ with themes of war, religion, and recovering from a fascist occupation, and eased into more serialized storytelling as much as they could get away with it. They're both _rad_ shows and I love them both for their own qualities.
I hated that they began making Quark “nicer.” Very unwelcome character progression.
@@AaronLitz but similiarities can't be discounted either. I don't think anyone seriously copied anything on purpose but considering that writers generally like to talk about the things they write especially when trying to sell their idea I wouldn't dismiss that some ideas got passed around and got remembered later. And that tracks why they start off similar but then go in their own directions as it would only be the general ideas that would get stuck in someone's mind. Which is kind of how most creatives operate, there are so many who want to have their own spin on something or hear an idea and then develop it into their own probably forgetting where the initial kernel came from.
The difficulty with story arcs in modern TV is that the seasons have become a lot shorter due to production costs, so there's less time to build the setting or allow plots to unfold in a way that doesn't seem forced - DS9 was able to have breather episodes with isolated stories, in between episodes which fed into the wider plot arc
It's been over 20+ years and STILL not a single statue of Dukat on Bajor!!
What is wring with this galaxy? SMH.
He just wanted to help!
It's on Cardasia though....
@@DavidTSmith-jn5bs aka parts of the surface which have not been bombed by the dominion.
Child labor was abolished! Medical care improved! Food rations INCREASED!!!
I'm currently watching DS9 for the very first time. I think it starts stronger than any preceding Trek before it. I'm on Season 4 at the moment and I'm presently under the impression that this is one of the best shows on television.
I'm on Season 5, my first full watch through (I saw some episodes back in the 90s). It's just an amazing show!
Season 4 is widely accepted as being a near perfect season of TV with few to n o bad episodes. Episode guides that tell you what episodes you must watch and what episodes to skip are generally like "watch all of season 4."
I agree, but that being said, season 6 is, by far, my favourite season of DS9. I envy you and wish I could erase it from my brain to watch again for the first time.
Oh you are in for a _treat,_ and I wish I could be there with you to share in what you are about to experience.
It is one of the greatest stories ever told. You will enjoy how it gets better and better the end is absolutely epic. I envy you seeing it for the first time.
It gets better. I was a teenager when it first aired and didn't like it. As an adult I watched the entire show and loved it.
Hands down my favourite Trek show. The characters were wonderfully fleshed out from Worf's romance with Dax, Gul Dukat slowly going nuts, Damar going from villain to revolutionary and of course, Miles and Julian becoming BFFs. Of course it also featured my fave character Garak. Absolutely fantastic!
You like a simple tailor? How boring 😊
Damar went from freighter crewman to one-ship crusader, to right-hand man, to murderer/traitor-executor, to puppet leader of his people, to ragtag revolutionary who finally understood the errors of his ways and his former cherry-lensed views on the occupation of Bajor and Cardassian arrogant imperialism...and he wasn't even a main character until the end. That was a hell of a show.
Weyoun isn't a shapeshifter he is a series of clones who works for the shapeshifters.
The shapeshifter remark was a joke about how many different characters the actor played throughout the franchise
@@johnhughes6487or just lazy or AI writing.
@@Bored_Barbarian If you've watched SG long enough, you would get their sense of humor and not even accuse them of lazy or AI assisted writing.
@@johnhughes6487I think there's an even better joke they could make about Weyoun being technically multiple characters. Since we can't be sure how many of the Weyouns appeared on screen, we can't know how many Star Trek characters Jeffrey Combs has played.
Jeffery Coombs could possibly be called a shapeshifter with all the rolls he played (Brunt, Weyoun, Tiron), Weyoun however was not a shapeshifter. The joke may have landed better if worded differently
I was a fan of both Deep Space Nine and Babylon 5. So I really don't care about who stole what. Just great sci-fi from the 90's. 😊
I would argue it is pretty self evident that DS9 took more than just a little inspiration from B5. The broad strokes are too similar, both in its depiction of war and its treatment of religion.
Ikr
I call bullshit on Rick Berman denying any knowledge of Babylon 5 or its story arc.
What's that old Hollywood saying? If you're going to steal...steal from the best.
In Deep Space 9, the universe explores you.
Considering just how many characters were utterly boneable on that show regardless of gender...
...
my body is ready!
DS9 is my favorite Star Trek series of all time!
A series that is so good that it still holds up today!
Just finished it never finished when I was younger much younger was great show 👍🏻
But so do the other classic Star Trek shows, too...
Babylon 5 was better :p
Yep. Ratings declined sharply with both VOY and later ENT.
@@destinycaptain247 to be fair, there were far more television options at that point than durying the TNG heyday. So many cable networks launched in the 90s, diluting ratings for almost everything.
Just to make things clear, DS9 was never close to "killing the franchise." 😅
It actually got pretty good viewership ratings until the end of its run, just not as good TNG
I didn’t really appreciate DS9 until I served a year in Kosovo. Then, after dealing with local power struggles and a cool conflict with no ‘good guys’ from a US post at Camp Bondsteel, it made loads more sense to me than TNG or VOY did.
Wow, I havnt thought about Bondsteel in 20 year! I was an Albanian Linguist in the USAF during the conflict.
DS9 was beautiful because its theme and central question was “now that you live in utopia, and have grand utopian ideals how willing are you to defend those ideals in war”? Are you willing to bend or sacrifice those beliefs in order to survive, or can you persevere AND hold on to your ideals? Perfectly encapsulated what Trek is all about. 🖖🏾❤
100% this. That's what I feel was so genius about the Dominion War arc, the writers introduced and did not shy away from the absolute ugliness, horrors and hopelessness of open war (as much as they could get away with on network TV anyway) but also consistently showed a Starfleet and Federation that was holding onto their ideals and identity by their very fingernails in the face of all that ugliness and horror and hopelessness.
@@Dargonhuman In The Pale Moonlight isn't just a great Star Trek episode, it's a great war drama.
@@Dargonhuman Yeah, But wouldn't it have been way better if the
Federation turned out to be the bad guys and the bad guys
(while still doing bad stuff) the good ones
- Usually with no reason other than the writers ham-fistedly making it so?
(God, do I hate 'Picard')
DS9 = Best Trek
No mention of the Defiant or the Dominion War? That is when the show kicked in to full gear!
As a fan, DS9, babylon 5 and TNG being on the air at the same time was a golden age that has never been repeated.
The episode In The Pale Moonlight was Trek at its best.
DS9 was the pinnacle of Star Trek. So much of the subjects of human existence, love, sexuality, war, suffering, redemption, honor....Deep Space Nine fully explored these subjects at a deep level nearly 30 years ago. Strong female protagonists, race and history, conflicting systems of economics, authoritarianism vs pluralism....its all there. Sometimes people forget what the series was really about.
Ever since DS9, Trek has gone down hill. It reached terminal velocity in 2019.
The backstory of Sisko was amazing.
This was such a character-driven show, and the stationary premise allowed the bad guys to be recurring and have their characters develop, too.
My favorite Star Trek show, and character Captain Sisko.
And Yes, I am a Niner!
There was even a baseball themed episode, and the Deep Space 9 team name was "Niners".
When DS9 aired I was a kid and didn't like it very much. As an adult I can appreciate the differences and strengths. And DS9 definitely has the most action and battles of the old series.
There's some interesting anecdotes about how Avery Brooks often had to fight to challenge black stereotypes like the absent father or to change his look. And it's nice that Jake Sisko doesn't just join Starfleet like you'd expect.
Brooks also protested the "Ocean's 11"-like holosuite heist episode (whatever it was called, I forget) as it was originally written, pointing out to the producers/writers that in the time era the heist was set in, black people were not welcome at finer establishments such as the one being portrayed, which led the writers to give Sisko a speech in the episode about that. And, he directed "Far Beyond the Stars", which as you probably already know is a stand-out episode in Star Trek, dealing with racism and bigotry against black people. And he starred in "American History X", which is an excellent and very thoughtprovoking and intense movie.
Also, he is said to have formed a very tight relationship with Cirroc Lofton (who played Ben Sisko's son Jake in the show, for anyone not in the know), being a sort of nurturing mentor and father figure for Cirroc from what I understand, which I always thought was really sweet and admirable. :) And then there's loads more of course.
So the guy is basically as much a fighter for his causes and as well-informed in real life as Ben Sisko ever was on screen... Brooks not your average run of the mill actor, that's for sure. :)
I loved it as a kid... and loved it MORE when I rewatched alot of it as an Adult. Quark's Federation speech was classic.
@@lennyvalentin6485 As a non-USian, the episodes about black people in the US felt so very heavy-handed.
I'm definitely a "Niner." I embraced the movies and "Next Generation" was a great series, but DS9 was my favorite series because it was so different but still knew that it was in the "Star Trek" universe.
I knew that Alexander Siddig’s epic full name is Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abdurrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi, but I only learned just now that his mom was Malcolm McDowell’s big sister.
So, wait, what is Malcolm McDowell's epic full name then?
...
Wait, Dr. Tolian Soran and Dr. Julian Bashir are _related?!_
I love DS9! I love the Dominion War story arc. A very underrated series.
I've met several cast members of the show, and I've got to say Nana Visitor is still as foxy as ever!
"Allamaraine, count to four,
Allamaraine, then three more,
Allamaraine, if you can see,
Allamaraine, you'll come with me…"
Go to the timeout corner.
this ruined the franchise, this was like the 6th episode or so, and so many people quit the show after this one, it didn't recover for a long while
Oh no that's gonna be stuck in my head...AGAIN. haha
Nooooo!!!!!!😅😅😅😅
Even though this episode is bad, it has Armin Shimerman absolutely /going/ for it as Quark begs to not have to choose for someone to die.
You forgot to mention all the completely true and canonical facts about Captain Benjamin Sisko:
Captain Sisko once shot down a Dominion warship by pointing at it and saying “bang”
The planet Romulus wasn’t destroyed by a supernova. Captain Sisko jumped out of the orbiting Defiant and punched the ground.
Captain Sisko once threw a photon grenade and killed 50 Jem’Hadar soldiers. Then the grenade exploded.
When Captain Sisko jumps in a pool, he doesn’t get wet. The water gets Captain Sisko.
The Prophets didn’t understand linear time until Captain Sisko punched them into next week.
He’s The Sisko, first name - “Don’t F with.”
Damn. This is even funnier than the Chuck Norris memes in this theme.
The Defiant's real name is "The Ben Sisko Mutha-F***ing Pimp Hand", but Starfleet decided that was too long
Yeah and he punched Q too. Dude punches everything. Its the Sisko way.
"The best diplomat I know is a fully activated Ben Sisko."
This is officially the fastest I've ever clicked on a Secret Galaxy video. Can't resist a discussion of my favorite Trek!
No…DS9 did not almost kill the franchise.
At the time it looked like it. My family has a lot of Trekkies in it, and when DS9 premiered I was the only one not saying "I ain't watching that trash."
I remember loads of opinion pieces in the newspapers (remember those?) of people complaining Star Trek was dead and DS9 killed it.
But...did it almost kill the franchise??
I mean, Treks viewership numbers consistently dropped on average after TNG wrapped, until the Enterprise finale. Dunno if it almost killed it, but it certainly started a trend that killed it on TV for a while.
@@Plapradthat lasted about a season. It was getting solid ratings in subsequent seasons until syndicators started shuffling it around the schedule just as it became more serialized. It was timeslots that hurt the show and the franchise.
@@Plaprad I wouldn't say DS9 killed Star Trek, but it's clear that once TNG went off-air and DS9 took over, a lot of viewers started to lose interest in Star Trek, viewing figures continued to decline, so much so that Paramount got desperate with some of the more radical story telling on Star Trek, the dominion war, bringing Seven of Nine in VOY, because they needed to bump viewing figures up, they were trying all sorts to try and bump viewing figures, until they give up after ENT series.
The irony is, TNG had a bad start, and a lot didn't think a new crew could replace the original, but for many, TNG ended up being better than the original for many and Star Trek was really popular just before TNG ended, so much so that that everyone was shocked they took it off-air with how popular it was.
With that said, I enjoyed DS9 when watching it as a kid, but it wasn't hard to see the flaws on why Star Trek ended up in decline, mainly because the vision of Star Trek changed into a darker, more moody Trek, which went against everything that Star Trek was all about, and Star Trek went downhill ever since to what we have today.
Star Trek needs to get back to basics in what made Star Trek great in the first place with TOS and TNG, whiles giving it a modern take, a continues story line and a brighter, more well lit future, which is really what Star Trek was all about in the first place.
DS9 made Star Trek go from a mythos to a genre. It wasn't just a story, it was a setting.
Personally, I appreciated that a black man could not only exist in space, but also be in charge AND be a loving family man... And in the 90's, that wasn't as common of a representation. It even helped me humanize crony capitalist with a non-cartoonishly evil protrayal of the Feringi. It had layers, which made a intergalactic space story seem more real.
The cherry on top was that he's from New Orleans, and my first watch thru was when I had evacuated from Katrina. This show is special, and I'm glad to have witnessed it.
Thank you for the video. 🙏🏿
Thanks for this one- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine is my favorite Trek series after Classic Star Trek. It tackled more serious issues like Religion, Politics and War (the latter especially during the Dominion Conflict). And Starfleet does have military role.
Avery Brooks’ more stern command style was a good contrast from Capt. Kirk’s relaxed, confident behavior and Capt. Picard’s paternal demeanor.
The cast was one of the best. My fave characters include The Emissary, Major/Colonel Kira (Nana Visitor was and remains beautiful, especially so when Kira was a redhead), Quark, Odo and Worf. Hard to decide between Jadzia and Ezri, though.
Comparisons to Babylon 5 are inevitable, but both were good shows in their own right.
DS9 is some of the BEST Trek ever made!
still my favorite trek and captain
Agreed. Captain Benjamin Sisko is my favorite Starfleet Captain. Avery Brooks did an outstanding job bringing Sisko to life.
absolutely agreed
Yes, yes, yes.
Yes!!
DS9 is hands down my favorite Trek, by a country mile, it's not even close.
Deep Space Nine did NOT kill the Franchise, it only killed the opinion that Star Trek is G Rated.
😂 when was star trek g rated? TNG had people exploding in season one and later crusher boned a candle ghost. TOS frequently had sexual assault and literal jack the ripper.
@cf8023 In it's own way, TOS was full of horrific moments. Off the top of my head: in "The Ultimate Computer", Scotty and his engineering assistant are ordered to deactivated the M5 unit. Engineering guy grabs a tool and goes to the wall socket that M5 is plugged into. A laser beam errupts from nowhere and instantly reduces engineering dude to nothing. There's no fanfare. The guy doesn't even get to scream. He's just instantly vaporized while about to do his duty. It's an image that has stuck with me my whole life.
I came into DS9 in 1996 after watching "Trials and Tribblations." I have been a fan of the show thanks to reruns on ABC 45 and brand new episodes on UPN 48. I love Quark and Odo's rivalry as well as Jadzia Dax. Jeffrey Combs was the MVP of Star Trek DS9 and other series.
Thanks for including that Star Trek The Experience commercial! I was surprised with a graduation present to go to the Las Vegas Hilton and experience Star Trek The Experience! One of the highlights of my teenage years! I loved that entire place! I stayed inside Quarks Bar all day! I’m so sad it no longer exists!
Same. My parents took me there when I graduated and we went on the motion simulator ride at least a dozen times. That was in 2001 (Sept. 10 to be precise... yea the next morning killed the vibe) so I never got to do the Borg one later, and I still regret that.
Fun fact about the animated series, many of the episodes are direct adaptations of existing science fiction stories, like one episode based on a Larry Niven story, it replaced the puppeteer and human characters with Spock and Kirk, but kept the cat like alien, which ended up pink. I haven't watched many of the episodes, but that one i had actually read the story it had adapted, so it was neat and a little weird, especially with Spick acting like a puppeteer.
Excellent Ferengi presentation style.
One thing that hurt the ratings of DS9 and TNG is that in many places it was aired on Fox. Fox hates sci-fi and makes an effort to kill series it gets by putting them in horrible time slots where they will be interrupted by sports that never end when they are supposed to.
In my area Voyager had a big advantage over DS9 because it was on UPN.
Controversy, Schmonstroversy! Still the best Trek series ever . . .
I happen to be currently rewatching this, which i have not seen since it first came out. I had almost forgotten just how good this series was.
DS9 is my favorite Trek series. I love when Star Trek isn't afraid to challenge itself
"If you buy Babylon 5, you can't have Deep Space 9." That cracked me up because the Fox station that ran DS9 in my region was the same station that ran Babylon 5.
I don't get the fanboys who dig in for one show or the other - cake is great; however loving cake isn't going to stop me from loving pie also! If I love cake AND pie, I get twice the yummyness! Why on earth would I pick one show and dis the other? Makes no sense. B5 and DS9 are tremendous TV shows each in their own way.
Just like I always loved Star Wars AND Star Trek (another weird dork war that never made sense to me.)
@lennyvalentin6485 I have a friend who wears a shirt that says Star Trek in the Star Wars logo design. When it pisses someone off she does the Vulcan salute and says "May the Force be with you." It kills me every time.
@@mattwilson8298 :DDD
DS9 is such a wonderful show.
Sisko is my favorite captain.
Same
Agreed
Yup
The answer to Kirk or Picard is always Sisko. THE Sisko.
Yeah
I like most _Trek_ but _Deep Space Nine_ remains my favourite. The things I like about it, the long form narrative and recurring characters, are the same reasons I also really like _Stargate._
11:01 "René Auberjonois mostly known for playing Clayton on Benson" : I'm not one who likes to employ (old) memes, but - Boston Legal: "am I a joke to you?" 😋
Let's be honest only die hard Boston legal fans like that show outside the fan base no one likes
@@attiepollard7847 okey dokey. ✌️
And let's not forget the every-episode "drinks and chat on the balcony" between Capt. Kirk and Ultron!
"Denny Crane!"
I didn't care for the early DS9's but by the time Babylon 5 got dull (post Shadow War), the Dominion War was just starting so I got the best of both shows! 👍
"Come to Quark's! Quark's is fun! Don't just walk- run!"
Great, it only took about thirty years to get that jingle out of my head the FIRST time! 😡🎶
If you listen closely in star trek online, you can hear that jingle playing on the monitors of the promenade.
DS9 and X-Files was ahead of it's time when they was doing serialized episodes. People complained back then but complain now if shows are not serialized.
DS9 copied it from Babylon 5.
In fairness, the complaints back then about serialization were legit as, outside of VHS recorders and something called TiVo that no one knew what to make of (and didn't come out until 4 years into DS9's run), there were no viable ways to catch up on a serialized show if you missed a few weeks, short of waiting for summer reruns and even then hoping you were able to be home to watch the episode(s) you missed - but that also meant not watching the rest of the current season until well after the finale and avoiding people talking about it at work/school or while hanging out.
On the flipside, also to be fair, these days, with "seasons" of shows being between 6-12 episodes as opposed to the 28-30 episodes back then, anything that doesn't move the plot forward or develop a character is seen as wasteful filler. With a 28 episode run, you can stop the main story (actually you kind of _have_ to stop the main story) for a standalone story that has nothing to do with anything several times and still have enough episodes to finish out the overarching story, as X-Files did frequently. But, when the show only has at most a dozen episodes, any episode not about the overarching story means that story arc has to be crammed into an even shorter run time.
@@Dargonhuman 24 and then Lost was what got people conditioned to serialized tv.
I've been a Star Trek Fan since seeing Wrath of Khan in the theater as a kid and watching TOS with my Father. That said DS9 has been my favorite Star Trek Series since it's 3rd season.
DS9 probably had the best overall character development of any of the series. Each character got focus and grew. Unlike say...voyager which only really focused on Doc, Janeway, Seven...and occasionally Paris, Tuvok, then the rest.
Harry Kim says hello as does Torres
That's because it was clear that the writers had no idea what to do with the rest of the cast, as some of the worst episodes of Voyager were the ones that weren't about Doc, Janeway and Seven, particularly the Chakotay and Paris episodes for some odd reason.
@@Dargonhuman lol chakotay's focus eps were prob the worst. Whenever i do a rewatch i either skip them or just put it as background. like Tattoo...that boxing one...or when he's trying to help that lizard prove humans exist...didn't help they hired that fake Native american consultant😅
As a life long Trek fan, I can find something to like or love about every iteration of Star Trek. That said, I consider Deep Space 9 to be the best series overall, though Strange New Worlds is certainly making a run for that title. While I love the exploration of TOS and TNG, DS9 regularly put the members of the federation in situations that challenged their beliefs and their structures. Instead of a captain giving an angry speech at some aliens then going back to his ship full of people who agreed with him, the federation staff on DS9 were constantly surrounded by other cultures, including many that disliked or outright hated the federation and found their ideals laughable. This created an interesting dynamic where we weren't just expected to passively accept that the federation was perfect (and yes there were episodes in TOS and TNG that explored this, but it was often quickly moved on from).
The move to serialized storytelling greatly improved the series.
The first couple of seasons had their rough moments, but then that is true for nearly every Star Trek show in existence. The first two seasons of TNG contain some of the worst episodes of the entire series. Most Star Treks struggle for a couple of seasons, find their footing or their voice and then move on. I feel like people with rose coloured glasses began to forget this and while Star Trek fatigue may have been real, I think in some cases Trek fans were abandoning ship too early on some of the series. Really, Strange New Worlds seems to be the only Star Trek series that hit the ground running.
Overall though, Deep Space 9 will always be an incredible addition to Star Trek.
Other captains get shot by phasers. Sisko gets stabbed in an alley. That's DS9.
Man I loved this era... TNG was getting long in the tooth and it seemed every network was trying to make the replacement. Babylon 5, Space Rangers, Sliders, etc... we need another big hit scifi show to stir up those creative juices again. Maybe Fallout if it goes a few more seasons will give us a bunch of post apocalyptic inspired stuff. Great video as always!
DS9 was the pinnacle of Star Trek; it's been downhill since.
Trek has always been a rollercoaster of quality, ups and downs, highs and lows, and even "loop-the-loops" (and any number of alternative spellings) in terms of doubling back on, and repeating, narratively and success/failure.
Regardless of all that, DS9 is not the culmination of all that is Star Trek, nor was it the most successful entry in the franchise.
@@orinanime
It has the overall best storyline, character development, and episode consistency.
I love TNG, but there were a lot of stinkers throughout the series.
Lower Decks reversed the trend. Not saying it's better than DSN but it's hugely better than everything since DSN.
They don't even MAKE Star Trek anymore.
@@igrim4777 LD has some, SOME, good moments. But 90% of that show feels like Star Trek meets Family Guy. Which is odd considering Seth McFarlane's Orville feels more like actual Star Trek (though season 1 is more like Galaxy Quest).
In the late 00's Terry Farrel lived in Hershey Pa where I live and work. I ran into her once in Giant Supermarket but didn't say anything. I was legit starstruck as she IS that beautiful in person.
Alternate title: Keeping Up With the Cardassians.
Funny side story: I saw a clip from B5 where Sheridan enters stage right and asks for an admiral from a previous episode. The script version had the admiral dead by an ambush but since the actor also played an admiral on Star Trek they had a joke take. "Where's Admiral Halsey? He's on Deep Space 9. His agent double booked him."
One thing I'd add is how an infant internet affected shows like DS9 and B5. AOL forums, Prodigy bulletin boards kept a level of engagement and interest not seen before.
Larson is a fool. Alienate more fans buddy.
What are you talking about?
@@null6634danny got exposed for the communist he is. He hates America and us.
I loved DS9 because, while it didn't have the same lighthearted feel, it did walk the edge between star trek and a departure from its norms. Babylon 5 certainly felt like a cleaner show overall, but DS9 just was so expressive, and had so much variety to it. Not to mention it is intentionally comedic throughout, every character is so idiosyncratic and they all clash so wonderfully.
Full disclosure, I enjoyed both DS9 and B5, they are both great shows and scratch different itches fir me. But, everything that JMS said in that clip is completely untrue.
No, Paramount didn't threaten stations that they couldn't have DS9 if they took B5, Brandon Tartikoff wasn't even an exec at Paramount when JMS shopped B5 to them in '89, Warner Bros and Paramount having competing networks doesn't matter one bit because DS9 was never on UPN (Voyager was) and in fact Paramount hated DS9 for competing with Voyager, Paramount didn't have to tell anyone B5 would look "cheap and terrible" because it did look "cheap and terrible" (it's a great show despite the shoestring budget).
The real reason Warners didn't sue Paramount is because they didn't have a leg to stand on. JMS is well-known to be a huge TNG fan and the real reason DS9 and B5 have similarities is because JMS was inspired by Star Trek and DS9 is directly based on Star Trek. Any similarities there are is due to cultural influences, sci-fi and Star Trek tropes in both shows, and a logical extension of where a sci-fi space opera like TNG could go in a new show.
That clip is also really old and I understand JMS doesn't make those claims any longer and has softened his stance a lot.
By the way, long overdue but your introduction logo and static looks incredible. Props to whoever made that.
(Great video overall too… thanks as always)
It's so weird to watch the 180 people have done on DS9 since it aired. At the time, I was the only person I knew that liked, and even preferred, DS9.
Loving Deep Space Nine is one of the only truly "correct" opinions in this world.
Terry Farrell and Nicole DeBoer each deserved better. Terry deserved to have better-faith negotiations and deBoer deserved better circumstances to join the show on. I can only hope that Ezri lives longer with the symbiont than Jadzia did.
They were both great; Ezri's quiet takedown of 'Klingon Honor' while sitting with Worf at the end of the series is one of the best scenes in Trek.
@@DavidDouglas-q7v I’m a little ehhhhh on Ezri and Bashir’s relationship considering how he pined for Jadzia (and again, the untimely death when she was so good with Worf) but it at least doesn’t make the show worse or have a sour note to end on
What was especially egregious was that on the last episode every major character got a quick little flashback montage spanning the different seasons, all except Jadzia Dax. Heck, Worf's flashback only shows him coming to the station, a couple of other clips, and then some interactions with Ezri Dax. Not one scene of him and Jadzia courting each other or getting married. Terry Farrell's contributions to the show are completely ignored and forgotten. Makes it hard for me to watch that final episode.
@@RyanAlcantaraThe lack of flashback to Jadzia was because the producers weren’t able to obtain Terry Farrell’s permission to use her likeness in the montage. It wasn’t an oversight or deliberate omission; they wanted to use clips for the montage and didn’t have the opportunity.
@@RyanAlcantara I think in my first watch the episode that elevated the series for me was the one where some wingnut demanded the Dax symbiont be transferred to him…just to have its benefits? And that experience later on where Odo got Curzon in him, it was BEGGING for an equivalent Avatar episode (though Unalaq and Vaatu made that way more difficult by wiping away the access to everyone else), even from a 2018 perspective
Who knew that a show about an intergalactic truck stop would be as entertaining to me as it was.
Ya know , not many people know this but J Michael Straczynski actually wrote episodes of Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors.
Never gets old
Never gets old
I love that you guys have been covering Trek. When/if you cover voyager, enterprise, or any other Trek show, I'm happy to volunteer as a fact checker or answer any questions y'all may have. I am kind of obsessed with Star Trek and constantly rewatching the shows. It's actually a problem 😅
A Series so good, it will always be the best of the franchise.
Amazing how the "Weyoun is a shape-shifter" joke went over so many people 's heads :/
This still the best Star Trek show ever along with the best most human characters ever portrayed in a Star Trek show period.
What I found interesting about DS9 was that it was a Trek show where humans were in the minority instead of the majority. If you meant that the show featured characters that BEHAVED in the most human way, I strongly agree. For example, before this show, I never took the Ferengis seriously. Not only did this show changed that perspective for me, I felt that the Klingons were more three-dimensional than they were even in TNG and the Cardasians, while starting out as evil, changed into heroic characters near the end of the series (except for Gul Dukat, of course).
@@DavidTSmith-jn5bs I said most human but I guess the better way to describe it that they are more like real people not just Characters the Klingon's were expanded upon, The Bajoran's had their own culture and beliefs then the Ferengi, The Cardassian even the Villains with the Dominion and the changelings it all went beyond one dimensional which was we have seen in TNG and on the original series.
@@fredsorre6605 I know that's what you said but my point expanded on the idea that even in Trek, humans were in the majority (including human-looking aliens) and DS9 was the exception.
This was great, however there were more controversies; Paramount, and to some extent Rick Berman did not have a great relationship with the female stars. During the 4th or 5th sesson of TNG, Marina Sertis says she started smoking again after contact negotiations broke down. Meanwhile the male leads got everything they asked for. During the sixth season of DS9, Terry Farrel was 'handed a contract, told not to read it as it wasn't a negotiation, and that without them she would be working at Target' - at which point she called their bluff and left. Meanwhile the male leads were taken to lunch and asked what would they like to return.
IDK why but the moment when a gangster threatens to cut off Quarks thumb in "Who Morns for Morn" (for people who haven't seen the episode, believe me, it's hilarious) is one of the funniest bits I've seen in a long time!
That one and the one where Quark tries to have himself killed to not break a contract then complains about every single method of dying are some of my favorite Quark episodes.
Oh, and the one where Quark and Odo are trapped on a planet and have to work together to survive.
@@Dargonhuman Both of those are classic Quark moments! There's also when Quark, Rom and Nog accidentally go back in time and "The Magnificent Ferengi" episode.
@@cinemaarts8795 oh yes that's also a great one, though I don't consider it specifically a "Quark" episode as Rom and Nog both had equal great moments. That was more of a family episode in my mind.
I wore my Niners shirt to work yesterday. I have a tattoo of the station on my wrist and the symbol for the Klingon/Cardassian Alliance on my shoulder. Deep Space Nine is the best Trek.
Sisko is the best captain for sure, he could kick classic Kirk and Picard's asses at the same time! 😂
Kirk is an adventurer, Picard is a diplomat. Sisko is here to kick ass and chew bubblegum and they stopped making bubble gum a century ago.
While I still personally like Kirk the best, Sisko is a very *VERY* close second.
@@nobodyimportant2470: To try and take (or bend?) a page from another comment thread--
Bubblegum refuses to be chewed by Sisko because it'd rather see him kick more ass.
(Not sure if that's any good, but I'm far from just a "simple tailor".)
As the first post-cold war Star Trek DS9 was a great juxtaposition to the optimism of TNG. That war is far messier than just fighting, a country in healing can make a lot of conservative and harmful decisions, and that where bureaucracy fails sometimes you need to violently defend the utopia you profess to uphold. One of my favorite episodes is Sanctuary where Bajor refuses to take on super farmer refugees in their blasted wastelands because "Bajor is for Bajorans" and it hits really close to home even 30 years later. Kira reluctantly agrees to their decisions, you rarely see that kind of flawed character in any other Trek.
In a world of record-high inflation and grocery prices out of hand, Magic Spoon is a cereal company that charges $9 or so a box -- some $4 higher than all other cereal brands.
The only thing I really didn't like about DS9 was the religious stuff.
Specifically that nobody EVER confronted Kira when she got all spiritual
and "I'm just a meat-puppet of the Gods".
Roddenberry must have been spinning in his grave.
Still my favorite of all Star Trek. I go back and binge seasons still.
My, hands down, favorite pop culture property of all time. Berman had a great quote: “Star Trek always seemed like Connecticut and I wanted to see Brooklyn.”
Stolen material from B5 creator.
@@Smileybeeblevrox Nope, not even a little.
So glad I was a kid when this aired, setting the VCR, watching 3 series back-to-back on TV every day, it was magical.
In my opinion the best of star trek 😢
DS9 did not kill the franchise.
It's the more recent STD and ST-Picard that killed the franchise.
DS9 hit at exactly the right point for me. I was still pretty young when TNG began, so I liked it, but it was just kind of there. Then by the time DS9 hit I was well into being a teenager (age 15 in 1993 to age 21 in 1999) and beginning my expanding fascination with culture, religion, and politics. DS9 responded by being the Star Trek ABOUT that. It wasn't the Enterprise swooping in and solving the aliens' problem and swooping back out, usually with some glib thing about deities being robots with poor self-esteem or something. It forced the crew to stay there and deal with long-term cultural difference, inter- and intrapersonal conflicts, and political realities. In so doing, it pushed Roddenberry's utopian vision as far as it could go to see how it reacts under pressure. The whole thing was catnip to me during my emergence into adulthood and it remains my favourite Star Trek.
It's my favorite of all the series to this day.
ds9 the series were the ferengi were redeemd from beeing displayed as " dumbrutes" in tng to the shrewd businessmen they are now!
Armin Shimerman said in interviews that was the specific reason he took the role of Quark, since he played the Ferengi leader in TNG's "The Last Outpost" and always felt bad for his involvement in that portrayal of the Ferengi - he felt his portrayal of Quark was a redemption of sorts and helped alleviate that guilt
I dismissed the series at first... to boldly be in the same spot every week didn't sound interesting. I am thankful to have been wrong.
One day people will learn that Colm is pronounce Collum...
I started watching DS9 when it premiered, but yeah the darker tone and constant in-fighting of the characters became annoying and didn't feel like "Star Trek" to me (I read even Majel Barrett-Roddenberry was opposed to how far it strayed from the Star Trek premise). I also didn't like Avery Brooks' acting, he felt too "theatrical" (even more so than Patrick Stewart) and felt out of synch with the rest of the cast's acting and the type of show it was. When the Dominion War storyline started it did feel ALOT like Babylon 5, with even the names of the shows being similar; Common sense can tell you someone ripped off someone. So yeah that's when I stopped watching DS9, watched most of B5, then tuned out of ST for a while except for the Next Generation films, and fairly recently with Picard.
Posted fifty-two seconds ago. That's something you don't see every day. I'd say DS9 is the best written of the five Star Trek series. Each of the characters were written as individuals and sometimes you can guess how they would react in any given situation. As much as I like Voyager, the characters there were pretty interchangable.
You need to learn to count. There are eleven Star Trek series that have been produced. Let me list them for you.
Star Trek
Star Trek: The Animated Series
Star Trek: The Next Generation
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - My personal favorite of all Star Trek series
Star Trek: Voyager - My second least favorite of all Star Trek series
Star Trek: Enterprise
Star Trek: Discovery
Star Trek: Picard
Star Trek: Lower Decks - An excellent animated series with quite a few funny moments. I do wish it relied less on fan service for its humor, though.
Star Trek: Prodigy
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds
As you can see, that makes eleven Star Trek series that have been produced not counting the Short Treks. Perhaps you should consult with a doctor to check for memory loss and cognitive decline. Forgetting that six other series have existed is quite the problem considering how high profile the franchise is and the fact that you watched and enjoyed five of them. One would think that you'd be aware of the other six.
DS9 is one of the most coherent and well written Star Trek series,
Deep Space 9 was the best.
Full on. Can’t watch it enough.
As a kid who only occasionally watched TNG reruns, I was always really confused whenever Deep Space Nine or Voyager came on. Never knew what the hell was going on.