For a one shot I played a Malkavian that hid in plain sight by openly declaring himself to be a vampire and joining really embarrassing clubs of larpers and stuff.
"We are entering Federal territory now my friend, we must be careful not to thread on their toes since we depend on their co-operation to operate and carry out our duties. We will present ourselves to the agents in charge of this juristiction, with a bit of luck they will even assist us." "Hmmm, never thought i'd work with the FBI." "It's not the FBI old friend!" "Oh so what are they, CIA, NSA?" "Oh no, they're worse. Much, much worse!"
Well, if they pay taxes it means they have rights as far as the taxman is concerned, and if they pay a lot of taxes, well that means they have a lot of rights too.
Played a thinblood with all of the traits that make you more human and was basically indistinguishable from one. And every anarch couldn't handle the balls of the man showing up to every meeting with KFC and pepsi Being as close to human as possible can make you surprisingly powerful in a world of stiffs, like being able to show up past sunrise to save a vamp from the inevitable.
Yeah, it's just too bad you gotta design a character like that from the ground up. That would have been my characters while growth arc if i had an ounce of cooperation from anyone at the table
This is exactly how you play the better man in a game like vampire. You hold on to as much of your humanity as possible and drag others to your path by giving them a better way.
I did something similar with a daywalker with vampiric resilience and fortitude as a discipline. Starting any fight with vampires by throwing molitovs and eventually a DIY flamethrower was fucking lethal when you are immune to frenzy and can tank damage.
I like how they framed it as "The Church/Secret Services don't go public about Vampires existing because people would witch-hunt each other", totally makes sense and it's a nice way of having the Second Inquisition and Masquerade at the same time
It's realistic too. It's how the real life which hunts went. People were turning on each other left and right. Someone offends you? Claim his wife is a witch. Want your neighbors land? You've seen him consorting with demons in the forest. A woman rejects you? I think she ate those kids who went missing last month.
I mean, it's more that they don't go public because nobody would actually _believe_ them. And, in the case of the intelligence community, it's because they're too _paranoid_ to share any information.
They do this in the series called The Dresden Files too, mostly. The idea is that humanity is a fucking nuke, basically. The moment they fully accept that magic and fae and necromancy exists is the moment you get a radioactive universe from the absolute batshit insanity it would cause
As Cotton Mather himself pointed out, the trick to ending witch hunts in New England was to accuse the wife of someone political and influential enough to say “right, we’re done here, time to move on.”
every session i dm'd didn't start as "how could i threaten a characters life and well being" but rather "what could i hit someone with that would stain their soul"
Bronze Age Pervert going on about the Trad Cath Mestizo papal infantry warding off the a siege of RadFem WEF thrals. The concept was hilarious, but I suspect more plausible than any of us would admit.
They are illustrated during the fall of Vienna in the lst pages of the player's handbook, I think Black ops operatives armed with rifles with incendiary rounds as primary and blessed longswords for cqc
Interesting take but it undermines greatly the fact evil is also in humanity. Vampires are not alone against the living. As humanity preys on itself, there will always be humans who will thrive and enjoy working for vampires, no matter if they are bought with gold, blood or promises. And it's how vampires survive in the 21st century.
And? it doesnt matter if a person is good or bad if they find out a predeator that prefers eating humans is around their first thought will how do I protect myself and the people I love. There are some people who will be willing to work for them but if the monster ever appears weak or cant meet the promises made they will have surounded themselves with people who will betray anything for their own desires
@@blacklodgegames So religious zealots and over-reaching intelligence agencies operating completely off the books and in a blatantly illegal fashion to orchestrate a secret genocide is... "good"?
@@killerhellhoundA lot of the states you play are not terrible nice. WoD in general looks baroque and oppressive as well. These states mostly use these security tools on people, and seems like they accidentally started a campaign to purge vampires. The Vatican is probably closest to the idealist goals.
My man, coming home after a long night fighting monsters, and finding the flat empty was one of the worst things that has ever happened to me while gaming.
Remember back in the earlier editions where Cain would hold court in the First City and orate about how, on the Day of Judgement, the One Above All would punish Kindred and that their cries for mercy would fall on deaf ears?
Again I am one of the minority VtR players (1st edition mostly) but this was ABSOLUTELY how I handled PC’s who went too far. Wanna act up? Well. Then you get to meet up with the Hunters who aren’t just desperate people; you get to meet up with TFV… in their power armor. And the neat thing is? You can make this a cornerstone of a campaign. Let the abuses and blood wars get too visible. Then hope you can survive the dawn raids from the Inquisition and Task Force Valkyrie. Or even weirder shit. See here some of the antagonistic THINGS in the Werewolf line.
Old school represent. For every campaign, I created some low level hunters who were always active and might wind up on the PC's trail if they screwed up. Usually local cops who know nothing of the supernatural (who had Cam/Anarch ghoul moles in their department to keep an eye on them) because they would be the first to see the usual evidence (exsanguinated bodies etc). Then one tier up, a couple of feds at the local field office, one of whom has suspicions that something like vampires might exist, but nothing concrete. Next tier up, The Society of Leopold had a couple of moles in strategic places (law enforcement, coroner's office), silently listening for clues. Next up, an SoL strike team that starts out unaware and outside the area. Then I let the chips fall where they may based on player actions, off camera. I pulled no punches on hunters, but the hunters were very cautious and meticulous about their work.
In Esoteric Enterprises, there is a legal attention level for the group. It increases every time you do crimes and fail to cover it up. The state is not aware of your little group specifically at the campaign start. This is partly permanent. It represents the increasing awareness the state has of your band of goons, and how much resources are dedicated to you. Police responses will be harsher, reactions with representatives of the state worse.
Man, this feels like how we used to play Masquerade when we started some 25 years back. That is to say the most boring and paranoid play possible - "you make one mistake you mess up the Masquerade and you have Vamp Kill Team 6 offing your character". That kind of approach to the game makes you play the most paranoid game you possibly can, which for a good deal of people won't be fun. If that's what your table enjoys, all the power to them, but this shouldn't be the default for every game. This is why I love that small note in Requiem 2e that flat out tells you that Traditions are meant to be broken. It is more dramatic to try hiding a secret childe you had without permission than to have the opening of Bloodlines 1 play out with you instantly getting staked and beheaded. It is more interesting if you murder some other vampire and get away with it, or if someone finds out they use it as a leverage against you rather than instantly turning you in. And similaly, it's more interesting if you have to do damage control after a Masquerade breach by tracking the various witnesses down and dealing with them rather than the situation instantly escalating to a killsquad. Besides, have you seen how dysfunctional people and organisations can really be? How January 6th wasn't stopped by the military or the police, how Trump almost got got by a lone wolf despite having secret service and police knowing about the guy? How you have Panama Papers and Epstein files just sitting there with nobody getting charged with anything? How some big religions in the US have blacksites where people disappear in? How an entire police squad didn't want to go into a school to stop one kid with a gun? Or heck, remember how in 2016 we had a lot of weird clown sightings and nothing came of that? Chances are sure the police and other people would know about vampires and werewolves, but their modus operandi would be "there is a frenzied vampire on the loose, all cops avoid the area unless you also want to be the victim". Take the cynical view that is so prevelant in the World of Darkness and assume nobody would get involved unless the situation would threaten the bottom line of someone rich and important, which guess what, chances are would be a supernatural or their underling. Also, if you want things to be "realistic", why stop at someone breaking the Masquerade? If the world already knows about vampires because someone messed up at some point in the past and there are entire organisations that have vivisected a few vampires, why would they be stopping at being reactive rather than proactive? Why wouldn't they be deploying thermal cameras everywhere to see who's a walking corpse? Why wouldn't they be sending people to natural vampire feeding places like bars, clubs and so on and snooping out if there is a leech problem there? Why wouldn't they be monitoring sewers for Nosferatu activity? Why wouldn't they keep a close eye on everyone with a blackout blinds in their house or everyone who logs onto the Internet only during nighttime hours? Why wouldn't they track all cars at night and see if any of them congregate in one place regularly while normally they never meet? Why wouldn't they viciously interrogate anyone they capture that could lead them to other vampires? Just because the PCs didn't break the Masquerade doesn't mean the world would hold its punches... But in the end, it's all about what kind of stories you want to tell at your table collectively. If you do want to have characters be afraid of getting themselves exposed, go for it. If you want to throw cars in a setting where people are afraid to call the cops because they would be victimised or where all the social media have algorithms that suppress sightings of the supernatural, you can have that too. It's all up to your party.
Can we all take a moment, to bask in the hypocrisy, given the world as it is right now, of humans pretending that they are somehow not the monsters on the same level as any vampire. Not a single one of the real true genocides of the world, was the fault of vampires. It's canon that from the shitty Austrian painter, to the mega genocide of the Americas, and everything that happened in the real world before or after, it's on humanity. I applaud 5th edition for upping the stakes of the game. But humanity doesn't get a pass on its ends and an easy route to throw on the cloak of the good guys because there are other monsters out there. It's not about the triumph of the good. It's about humanity countenancing the existence of no monsters except itself. The bulk of the world will not tolerate being afraid of something above them in the food chain. Sharks, wolves, athletes of a different skin color. Women who make them feel small because they are small. The existence of a pretty thing they can't possess. Nah. Humanity isn't the loan hero in the darkness. It's the devil explaining that hell has room for exactly one satan and it ain't you, vlad.
Okay but....The Camarilla running a massive surveillance state in the modern world does kind of make sense...I mean, forget about the church somehow not being evil on near every level. Politicians love, no, crave power to a level that makes a Kindred's desire for blood seem like a tiny little case of the munchies. There's no need to say 'oh the end is nigh' if you can pull a full on satire of the modern surveillance state.
Past editions didn't dismiss a breach of the traditions as "a slap on the wrist", violations were always portrayed in the books as at the least, you're getting staked; humiliated and tortured, and at worst, death. V5 took the second inquisition seriously and that's commendable, but it plays very fast and loose with the lore. Outright changes aspects of the clans and the setting, it's a reboot; not a continuation.
Correct, the current edition is a mixed bag. We are planning a series of clan videos addressing some of the big issues with them as well. The good things in V5 are *great*, the bad things are *really* bad.
definitely a reboot or a "safe and corrected" version of it, with not a few problems. But some good things too, like the one explained in the video. sure, in the past a masquarade breach was a bad thing, but it's consequence stopped at the will of the sheriff or prince and no setting-changing consequences would really come out of it. In V5 a masquarade breach is potentially devastating for all the vampires in a whole region if not nation (and rightfully so). It's a severe challenge for the PC, while in the past was just an annoyance. It's good because curatils the power of the players, and rebalance the powerscale between their vampire pcs and mere humans.
@@TertiumNondatur-e2j old VtM handwaved a lot of the BTS of covering up masquerade breaches. You were hunted by vampires rather than humans because so many palms needed to be greased by those vampires with the power to cover up for your transgressions. At least, that's how I've always understood it.
@@kdolo1887 sure! and that's why masquarade problems never got beyond the vampire court. But it's not the 90s anymore. It wouldn't make sense to keep doing that in the always connected- information submerged world we live in today. THe answer to that is: humanity knows of vampirism, and they're fighting it (2nd inq.)
I feel the need to highlight, while this video is certainly a valid interpretation of a way you can run/play vampire, to say vampire reveling in the curse is a "profound misunderstanding of the game" (4:58) is demonstrably false. In fact saying the world of darkness "there is no illusion the monsters will win in the end" or that the good guys will always win is actually demonstrably- a profound misunderstanding of the setting. Spoilers Bellow: In the world of darkness the setting is doomed. If you follow vampire the original "apocalypse scenario" was either the rapture happened and vampires had to escape existence, The vampires are given a trial by god to be redeemed many of which fail, or the antediluvians awoke and Tzimisce liquidated and absorbed the mortal population (unless stopped by the characters who actually then are the good triumphing over evil and get to retain their abilities without the downsides of the curse. The only example of the monsters not winning in the end all be it thanks to the monsters). In the larger world, should the vampire apocalypse fail to be enacted, demon the fallen, werewolf the apocalypse (in the name), wraith the oblivion all have their own end of days scenarios (ones that the humans likewise wont be able to stop). Hunters and humans as a whole are characterized by their own willingness to join in with evil (being aiding the dark powers or "the ends justify the means"), turn a blind eye, or still come up with the wrong conclusion despite all their technological advances. Enjoy killing a bit to much, even vampires many of whom still retain their humanity, and you become a monster yourself in the form of a "slasher". Even if the end of days were averted slashers and true fae from changeling the lost would continue to plague humanity and ruin individual lives until the end of time. It should also be said, that if you specifically build a character for combat (something that is not always done as the multiple dice system can be make it tedious) and play smart it is actually quite easy to wipe out entire strike teams of hunters with little to no risk regardless of what their equipped with. Vampires have super human endurance, strength, speed, senses, and magic and are capable of using all of the technology humans can and more. Their only weaknesses being religious artifacts, fire, and the claws/teeth of were wolves. It should be noted this was easier in older editions, especially v20, were as their viability in combat took quite a nerf in 5e. The main reason vampires are on the back foot is due to their own self imposed incompetence/reliance on the masquerade having left them complacent. Few to no sheriffs, for example, have more than 3 dots in any of their disciplines yet have a wide range of skills and additional disciplines for the sake of "the masquerade" even though at a first glance this shouldn't be part of their job description. Your average well trained soldier having 3 dots in the relevant stat/skill with a specialty rolling 7 dice you can slog off bullets and melee strikes provided you have a good amount in fortitude, incendiary ammunition can be shot an ignited killing the user well before it can be used on a vamp with a reasonable amount of celerity, and even with religious artifacts like swords your not likely to best a vampire in melee if they have specked for it. Vampires take more to kill, hit harder, faster, and more frequently. And that's only if they choose to engage you directly. Any weapons humans could turn against vampires can also be used by the vampires themselves. If you add in the fact vampires can have literal fortunes as a background and their ability for super-strength they could be outfitted with weapons and armor any human couldn't hope of using, also potentially nullifying their inherent weaknesses. Again, if you want to run a game with the mentality outlined in the video then that's fine, but you its a design choice not an inherent truth. Should your storyteller/game-master have a different mind/understanding of the setting and you were to tell them they have a "profound misunderstanding of the game" its not likely to go down well. Especially if they've been playing since the 90's.
@@blacklodgegames Guess that tell's people all they need to know about how much value your opinion/input has. More fool me for engaging in discussion in the first place, i suppose. Shame really. Thanks for saving me from committing any further time, and good luck with the channel 😘
Some of my friends caused a vampire brawl in a nightclub in one of their vampire the masquerade campaigns, and some were worried about what the prince was going to do. Next session the inquisition had arrived in force into the city and they had to hightail it out of their lairs from the children of the knights Templar and seal team six. I love how Humanity’s a threat again
I believe that your are correct that humans are a force to be reckoned with, but I think it's more in the way of a storm. Yes it is a force to be reckoned with, but that doesn't mean you can't survive. i.e "The comming storm cannot be stopped, but it can be endured."
One fun prologue idea you can do for a VTM game is to play as your group's sires, on the day the Masquerade died, some time before your main game starts. Show the real terror and panic that resonates in a city as the Vamp's entire world crumbles around them, almost killing them, and giving your characters, a real, lived fear of the world they've been thrust into because they have the tales of the Sires who watched it all burn.
I don't know, man... If the objective was to make me want to play vampires in V5, this video only made me want to play Catholic vampire hunters. Looks like the only Hunter: the Reckoning book is still the one from 1999. 😥
I firmly believe that any ttrpg is about what your particular table prefers (and yes, I know that it's extremely controversial in the community in general and specifically in WoD). But the concept itself is pretty empowering
I can agree with that, I've often gotten a lot of push back when I've said there is no wrong way to play. Just the wrong way for a given group. Sadly the ability to recognize this and leave respectfully seems to be a lost art.
I can't say I agree with you 100%. I mean, that was always the theme of Vampire and always very present way before 5e. AKA - that if they got 'too loud' humanity was going to come down on them like a ton of bricks. Even the Sabbat (in the early books) would destroy or mutilate packs that broke the masquerade too much (assuming it could get the government agencies involved).
You kind of proved him right in your own comment though. "Even the Sabbat would destroy or mutilate packs that broke the masquerade too much." Exactly, the Sabbat, not Humanity. That's his point I think, it was always the vampires enforcing the masquerade on themselves and the reason why being just fluff basically, now instead of even the Sabbat mutilating or destroying packs that broke the masquerade it's Vatican black ops squads destroying packs that break the masquerade. That makes the idea of the masquerade actually believable, instead of being "oh you broke the rules now we punish you" it's more like "this is WHY we have these rules, now suffer the consequences."
To put it in Jungian terms, playing Vampire can be a very productive way of facing and integrating aspects of your own shadow. You safely get to do things you would never do in reality, and you even get to enjoy doing them. But if played correctly you also get to experience the cost of doing them. That’s why it’s a game of ‘personal horror’- because you should be at least a little unsettled by what you are prepared to do and who you would become, given the opportunity.
It's a bold take, saying how revelling in the power is misunderstanding the game. It comes across as telling people they're playing the game wrong, which is a pointless stance to take in a hobby centred around improv. I always saw it as a game of survival in a grim setting, where anything can prove your undoing.
You are completely correct that the core theme of vampire the masquerade is survival. The op has very strong opinions of how his world of darkness is like which is common with fans of the game. Sadly it always causes friction. The op is literally calling people the devil cause their take on humanity in wod is less idealistic than his. It's a bit sad.
@@doncoyote68 I agree. I think revelling in power is a natural reaction, at least at first. You learn of this new existence, there's uncertainty and fear, then you find out what you can do. Feeling powerful does feel good and people can get hooked on that. It can also lead to one's downfall and the OP even talks about how that's a good thing. But we should live and let live. People playing differently doesn't hurt anyone.
I love your streams… but your videos are on a whole other level. The script and delivery are magnificent. The music and the visuals are great. Excellent job! Looking forward to more videos. Thank you.
Finally, someone gets it. I've always played V:tM with high regards about Humanity/Paths, and how thr real "personal horror" is about how the path score is going to slip no matter what. Even the nicest, most humane of vampires is just one frenzy, one hunger pang, one bad day away from ripping his best friend's throat out.
Oh boy finding good Vampire Masquerade content has been a trial and a half, but thank you guys for providing. I would say my character for my Gms Vampire chronicle is fully committed to finding a cure for his vampirism, but in your opinion how can I have that be my goal without like hamstringing the party?
@@blacklodgegames Oh, still not gonna stop me from trying to retain my humanity though. Even if it’s just a tear drop of humanity within me by the end of the chronicle, I think it would still be worth it.
I feel like this swings too far in the other direction. If you take the world seriously, like really seriously, then you would realize that humans are bad enough at dealing with mundane problems that I have little faith in our ability to offer effective resistance to an immortal race of superpowered cannibals. It also feels strange to equate humanity with good. Mythical heroes are special. They don't represent humanity in general. Now, I agree that vampires are evil and self-destructive. That being the case, I think it would be more suitable to portray humanity as a giant, dysfunctional, but nonetheless unstopable machine. It's broken in a hundred different ways, slow to react, and prone to error but will crush you if you're too bold and stupid. Humanity crushes vampires not because they're hyper-competent or morally superior but because at the end of the day they can live without vampires and vampires can never live without them.
Thing about humanity is that we're not that good at ~solving~ problems, but we've got a real knack for ~blowing problems up~. We might drag our feet when it comes to stuff like global warming or Covid. But directing the entire might of the military-industrial complex toward the total genocide of a race of beings? That is (unfortunately) right in our wheelhouse.
isn't that just because mundane problems are mundane? think a vampire cabal would be treated more like a terrorist org. than climate change, covid, or some pest infestation
Mundane issues aren't the same as an enclave of super-mafia blood drinkers. You cant shoot away Flu season. You can shoot away Vampires. Of course, some are going to fall through the cracks but in a universe with mages, technocrats, hunters, and other vampires infighting, they will be reduced to the point of nonexistence eventually. Hell, the reason why the Technocracy doesn't target them outside of specific circumstances is because they know it would be more efficient to just let them kill each other off, and they will eventually crumble under their own weight.
Citing that there are so many stories about Humanity triumphing over the forces of evil reminds me of a short Greek story in which a man is conversing with a lion in front of a statue depicting Hercules slaying the Nemean lion. He tries to use the statue as proof of mankind's superiority over beasts, only for the lion to retort with "It was a human who carved it." - Which basically means that those stories about humanity's victory are just a case of humanity stroking its own ego. Why would Humanity want to tell stories which depict itself in less positive light, or as being inferior to their enemies? The point of the story is meant to inspire Humanity, not demoralize it. In a 'realistic' setting, that actually understands the nature of Humanity and its psychology, the monsters would have a far easier time of it than our pop culture stories would have us believe. After all, while it's true there are many stories about Humanity triumphing over monsters, there are also many stories which now present Humanity as being the 'greatest monster of all.' Why do you think so many monsters are depicted as being able to mimic the appearance of humans? It serves as a metaphor for humanity's own savage nature, and a warning that anyone of us could become just as bad as the creatures we fight. "He who fights with monsters should be careful, lest he himself become one."
Well said my friend, well said. To me the message of Vampire has always been: There is a monster in all of us. So will you let it win, or instead struggle to see it's defeat?
Yes. In the 90s it was still easy to be a vampire, the risk of getting caught was small. As the danger due to the modern age increased, vampires turned from disgusting monsters into beautiful, shiny-skinned handsome boys. Could it be a coincidence? Fortunately, no one wants their existence to be revealed. Neither they, nor the secret services, and even if these two made a mistake, the New World Order would intervene with all its might. So the whole thing can remain a cool secret war. Humans VS Vampires
Ummmm this is how we played it in 2nd ed back in the 90's. Inquisition, government agents, werewolves, technocracy, hunters, etc etc etc were all parts of the game and my group ensured it was done right. Blood hunt wasn't the last recourse, it was the primary solution unless you had ties in Elysium.
I mean, personally, i always found the idea of playing a hunter or a more normal human and standing against all the things that go bump in the night more to my liking. When you are in way over your head fighting monsters that can turn you into chuncky salsa with a touch, but you use everything at your disposal to blind side them, it is an absolute blast of a time.
I can see some vamps hoping the Antediluvians that are left rise up, in the vain (vein?) hope that they can pluck the thorn of modern humanity from the paw of the vampire. Hmmm I may make a v5 character like that.
@@blacklodgegames Still waiting. I'm about to run a Sabbat game and your Camarilla video absolutely broke my brain and I want to see your thoughts on the Sabbat before I start my game next month.
In the older version of world of darkness you always had this interesting means of balance. And the balance was that characters who started weak had the most potential for growth. And characters who started strong would quickly peak and be out classed. It was easier to play a werewolf. But a werewolf could never be as strong as a vampire. Vampires were kind of a middle ground but a high generation vampire at it's core is basically a human. Weak but with huge potential for growth. On the other hand a true human could get true faith which was basically a defensive aura that also had the potential of doing enormous damage. That was a big thing in the dark ages book. If your vampires were too public eventually inquisition would come and amongst them would be high level true faith wielders and just getting near them would slaughter you.
@@blacklodgegamesI always imagined vampires would quickly start to build shells around them. As a high-generation vampire you are the shell for your elders at times.
You're literally talking about the second of eight signs of Gahenna as if it's the end of the story. The Traditional Foes increase their violence, AND THEN the Antediluvians awaken. The inquisition is a problem for the Camarilla who doesn't believe in Gehenna, sure, but there is not, "the good guys always win" in the world of darkness, because the "good guys" aren't even playing the right game. The idea that there's good guys in the world of darkness is itself a ridiculous concept when you consider the inquisition itself is sponsored by the Sabbat and the Technocracy.
I’ve held off on starting a new V5 game until I see the rest of your stuff in this subject. I’m enjoying it thoroughly. Would love to see your takes on the anarchs and sabat.
I love content like this. You guys always have something interesting to say on this subject. Also, this totally makes sense. In a world of mass surveillance, camera phones and Big Data, it would be almost impossible to hide, especially over a long term. And there's something truly refreshing about the idea that the biggest threat is not another monster or an evil god or a cabal of techno-wizards but just plain ole vanilla humanity, with our vast numbers and terrifying weapons. That's not an enemy you can fight, that's one you try to survive.
I did have the idea of playing a Greek Tragic style hero, a Ventrue embraced and raised up in the military, basically using his powers to be a nocturnal Captain America, but was forced to return to civilian life when the military started scouring their ranks of vampires wherever they could be found. Still an evil vampire with a Ventrue superiority complex, but compared to others he seems like a tragic hero, saving lives with vampire powers, but forced to feed on those same lives to survive.
In the military, first formation is usually between 0600 and 0800, standing tall in the sunrise. So basically, the ranks would be scoured of kindred almost every morning. Probably ex-military before the embrace would work better.
I figured his sire would’ve been in the higher brass along with a few other plants by the Camarilla, ensuring the spread and keeping track of government knowledge, the same way they do in civilian society. He would’ve probably been excluded from typical drills, due to being part of a later guard rotation or set in a different sector entirely to standard troops. We are told that the kindred have infiltrated all forms of government and organizations, at least before the Information Age, so he would’ve been returning to civilian life just as cellphones were becoming a big thing.
I had a V:TR character concept that was some what similar, in so far as it was a vampire trying to do good with it's powers. He was a Mekhet who used Auspex to act a psychic investigator aiding the police. The cops he worked with figured out pretty quickly that the pale guy who only came out at night and had spooky powers was a vampire, but they actively covered for him because he helped bring down some of the worst mortal scum in the city.
I just found this channel, I enjoyed the video and lore, but I would've subscribed regardless of my personal enjoyment, as you're a fellow lamb of brother Bill Fisher. We must expand the cult.
This is by far the best explanation I ever received of a warning about the masquerade!! Thank you! I usually put a strict rules when come to masquerade. Only 3 and you’re DEAD.. Break one level . Vampire see you as suspicious and harder to negotiation with them but they won’t be hostile towards my players. Human Only few journalist stalk them. Break level 2. Vampires see how careless you are and even will scorn you out of hand unless if it utter necessity and personal gain from you. They won’t speak to you. difficulty of 4 and above. Humans You being stalk by man in black with well spy equipment and guns. Difficulty of 4 upon speaking with and all time being carry recording device in order to avoid being used discipline on them. (My LASOMBRA player love to tormented them with it haha!) Level three break masquerade 3 NO VAMPIRE EVER WANT TO SPEAK TO YOU and might even kill you upon see you with no witness . You are danger to them all. Humans Your haven already being market by the special forces team with snipers all over building with kill team specialized on kill target with less eyes noticed .
I really came around on 5th Edition, recently. Their effort to refocus the scale of the game to the burdened, hopeless neonates trapped in a MLM from hell pays off in my opinion. Also hunger dice are a great idea, i always hated blood mana.
Humans have the advantage of innovation and ingenuity. The problem with immortals is that they aren't visionary. They live forever but live in the moment. I would go so far as to say vampirism would be akin to a subtle mental disorder. They aren't stupid, per se, but vampires are never going to industrialize.
I wonder how much of the change to Humanity, the food source, itself has become the main enemy for the Vampire PC is the work of Kenneth Hite. The guy IMO is one of the greatest 'Idea Men' ever to hit the RPG scene. His 'Nights Black Agents' Spy World/Black Ops Vampire hunting RPG is basically the same idea but from the Human perspective instead of the Vampires.
Delta Green started to touch on that early on. You already played meddling investigators, but Pagan thought people were drawn to the framework of an organization. And a badge quickly let the players get through the mundane parts of investigations.
My problem with Humanity is that most people treated it like some kind of morality system. Humanity has nothing to do with good or bad. Humanity can be understood very simply and very consistently: it’s your connection to life as a human being. Vampires have an innate desire to kill, which is magical in nature. This desire is kept in check by one’s connection to humanity. Generally speaking, all mentally sound humans have Humanity 10, even if they are immoral. The experience of becoming a vampire and feeding regularly automatically lowers your Humanity, which is why Kindred don’t start with 10.
Paths of Enlightenment are better than Humanity. I never understood why the creators were hell-bent on forcing you to play weepy-ass Louis when deep down we're all Lestats.
Humanity IS a path. It's Vampires aping being human to stave off the Beast, that's why it was so much more restrictive than a human just being human. Ironically, Paths are exactly the kind of "Evil is fun" that this video is railing against.
@@kdolo1887 Paths are the logical conclusion for the villains. Your psyche would likely not survive if you stuck to humanity. You are right though, that some of the paths are just unrepentant evil. An interesting topic to think about.
@kdolo1887 Yeah but how many games can you possibly play where you are sitting around crying about living forever with superpowers. For my friends, not even once lol.
I do like the idea of vampires taking hold of some lesser nations, a pact for increased power for a weak or failing government and a veil of protection for the vampires as these attacks against them would be seen as unsanctioned acts of war by the masses
I played a vampire who stuck to humanity as much as they could. (Typical hate the sire stuff.) He managed to reach humanity ten, over a long time. His biggest flaw as one of the sneaky boys was that he had a large habit of dialibrising opposition in other kindred. By the end he was a very high generation (5th-4th) I think? And we ended the game with him and a few others breaking away from the Carmarilla due to beginning of the final nights coming.
I say this from the bottom of my heart: BLG is f--king onto something with these types of XoD vids. This made my hairs stand up on end man. XoD fans are out here f--king STARVING for good content and you two are delivering more (in terms of video content) than Paradox Interactive, White Wolf, Onyx Path, or Renegade Studios ever did COMBINED. I could care less about making you two feel good and blowing smoke up your ass for w/e reason; I'm just being 100% honest. This content is f--king FIRE and I want MOAR. . I know from past livestreams you two aren't the biggest fans of Mage which sucks because I would LOVE BLG to cover Mage in the same way it's covering vampire. F--k man if you think about it ESPECIALLY in the context of the video, The Technocracy should have always been the multi splat spanning antagonist every splat should have had. Outside the storytelling system itself and the shared world, The Technocracy should have always been the connective tissue that binds all the games together. This could range from total normies delivering precision missile strikes (1:45) onto careless vampire princes, cleaning out Black Spiral Lairs with HIT Marks, or dragging Changelings kicking and screaming back to the lab. And they don't do this because they're cartoonishly evil. They do this because they're fucking horrorfied of what they discovered. They're the result of what happens when humanity is utterly united against a threat ala the end of the original Watchmen comic and movie. . tl;dr: GREAT video. Pretty please try to warm up to mage content. ;)
What I like about V5 is how it kicked open the doors to things. Things that were are not anymore. Indeed the Chantry failing, their blood failling, it opened up so much. You can have Tremere who are REBELS. Or have their own ideas... So yeah I like what they have done!
I love the double misunderstandings of Vampires VS Hunters. Vampires when they see little too many hunters in the same place think the second inquisition is hunting them down and the hunters are just a ragtag group of people hunting cryptids for shits and giggles
Makes me wonder whether, by 6th edition, the last remaining vampires will be something equivalent to Task Force X. Because I think we can pretty much count on the intelligence agencies not to let *all* the supernatural stealth monsters go to waste. Once their numbers have been well and truly decimated, something like Operation Paperclip seems inevitable.
2nd Inquisition had different states plus the Vatican as part of a sort of vampire coordination council. The members had different ideas on the mission specifics. I think one of them was forcibly recruiting monsters. Another was polishing numbers to look nicer.
the funny thing is, i have a concept in mind for a high humanity psychiatrist vamp, and the way i see him dying is after a few centuries of helping people, he sees this futility and decides to go out his own way. sitting on a park bench, watching his last sunrise. smiling to himself bc hes not getting ganked by some sabbat fuck, or some ambitious camarilla politician, hes simply meeting an end after doing his best to deny his nature for over a century.
Vampires were always at the bottom of the food chain, from the bottom up: -Vampires -Fey -Werewolves -Mages -Demons -Surprise shotgun from seal team 6 -Balistic missile for good measure
When you really think about it, you don't even play the vampire, the beast does, you play as the vampire's humanity desperately clinging on for dear life. When you lose your humanity, you the player no longer controls the character.
Great points and I mostly agree. Where I disagree is the idea that humanity is the good triumphing over evil or a simple black/white analysis of vampires vs. humans. I don't think VtM has, or should have, good guys. The SI may be targeting vampires, who are the most overt monsters, but at its root it's not for noble reasons. At the organizational level I think the SI wants to eliminate any competing power that could undermine the hold and sway humans most directly behind governments and other powerful interests have over the human population. Eliminating a dangerous competitor that can easily, and correctly, be labeled a universally agreed upon "other". Individuals in the SI can run the full gamut from people for whom the fight has become personal with motivations like revenge, those who just want to commit violence and kick teeth in while perhaps convincing themselves they're the good guys, and yes also some who genuinely want to make the world better.
Great video. I also loved the one about vampires as the mafia, it's great. I hope you can make more about the other line of games, specially Hunter in oWOD.
This argument carries its own demise within itself. If we assume that humanity is competent in VtM, then by consequence vampires must be doubly so; firstly because they started out human, secondly because vampires have to outplay humans on a daily basis just to survive, let alone thrive. Humanity simply cannot win against vampires without plot armour, which this whole spiel about human agencies getting their shit together is. If anything, the modern age is providing more and more means for vampires to secure total victory. Do you honestly think that the Camarilla will just twiddle its thumbs while AI and mass surveillance become widespread? That the Catholic Church is a threat to anyone who isn't a minor? That the Sabbat and its Tzimisce membership would ignore the potential in a Vicissitude-enhanced global plague? Yes but then you have to deliberately pull an "old vampires dumb" as well as a good ol' "humanity fuck yeah", at which point you might as well be playing 40K. I would also argue that it is precisely the power trip and its consequences that make VtM so interesting. Power does not corrupt, it only enables the corruption within you to come alive from its dormancy. That's where the "Beast" gets you, which is ultimately the unconfronted darkness in all of us, which is kept in check less by our conscious choices and character and more by our lack of power. It is easier to "do good" and "be good" if indulging your impulses is not a viable option: there is no true choice. Just consider how common "swatting" has become (in short: when someone sends cops to a streamer's house via false claims; there are youtube vids about this), that should be proof enough. And lastly: good? Evil? Hero? Monster? They are all judgements. You cannot objectively become either, only within a commonly accepted set of values. One nation's butcher is another nation's hero in a war.
@@blacklodgegames Times have changed vastly since the First Inquisition, vampires included. I would also classify it as "quality control culling". Morality is rooted in whatever values a given individual or group proscribes to exist. Sure, there are practical bits of morality revolving around maintaining good relationships and a sustainable environment but it is ultimately subjective. Whenever a large enough group emerged proposing their brand of objective morality, it inevitably went horribly wrong, history is littered with them.
My brother in Cain, would you kindly blink sometimes? You're breaking the masquerade
Forgot to activate blush of life sheeeiit
I can't unsee it now.
He is blinking. It's just too fast for one so young. 😂😂😂
@@alexboggs6416
He forgot to turn off Celerity.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
For a one shot I played a Malkavian that hid in plain sight by openly declaring himself to be a vampire and joining really embarrassing clubs of larpers and stuff.
That's a hilariously good idea, gonna have to steal that I'm afraid lol
"I AM THE CREATURE OF THE NIGHT! SON OF CAIN! BOS BEFORE ME, LOWLY HUMANS!"
"yeah, whatever Greg."
@gramfero
I don't think you'd call yourself a son of Cain in that scenario. That would be one of the few things to tip off the second inquisition.
I did something similar, my fledgling was writing everything he needed to know down in a notebook he wrote “Twilight Fanfiction” on.
That's genuinely clever, I tip my hat to you
Vampire is the story of an evil organization's inevitable crumble. Just like every mafia movie. WAIT A SECOND!!!!
Hahaha
Hahaha
You can't tell me the IRS wasn't always aware of their existance and merely threating them with exposure if they didn't pay taxes.
ahhh, the tax man... the real reason why Ventrue himself faked his death
Absolute headcanon for me now. It was the one human organization the Camarilla couldn’t pierce and was forced to treat with as equals.
Ah the taxmen. The unsung heroes of world of the Hunters. How I... HATE THEM! - Big D
"We are entering Federal territory now my friend, we must be careful not to thread on their toes since we depend on their co-operation to operate and carry out our duties. We will present ourselves to the agents in charge of this juristiction, with a bit of luck they will even assist us."
"Hmmm, never thought i'd work with the FBI."
"It's not the FBI old friend!"
"Oh so what are they, CIA, NSA?"
"Oh no, they're worse. Much, much worse!"
Well, if they pay taxes it means they have rights as far as the taxman is concerned, and if they pay a lot of taxes, well that means they have a lot of rights too.
Played a thinblood with all of the traits that make you more human and was basically indistinguishable from one. And every anarch couldn't handle the balls of the man showing up to every meeting with KFC and pepsi
Being as close to human as possible can make you surprisingly powerful in a world of stiffs, like being able to show up past sunrise to save a vamp from the inevitable.
That sounds sick!
Thin-bloods are the next evolution of Cainites, the old bloodsuckers are outdated and will not survive past modern nights.
Yeah, it's just too bad you gotta design a character like that from the ground up. That would have been my characters while growth arc if i had an ounce of cooperation from anyone at the table
This is exactly how you play the better man in a game like vampire. You hold on to as much of your humanity as possible and drag others to your path by giving them a better way.
I did something similar with a daywalker with vampiric resilience and fortitude as a discipline. Starting any fight with vampires by throwing molitovs and eventually a DIY flamethrower was fucking lethal when you are immune to frenzy and can tank damage.
I like how they framed it as "The Church/Secret Services don't go public about Vampires existing because people would witch-hunt each other", totally makes sense and it's a nice way of having the Second Inquisition and Masquerade at the same time
Yeah it really has turned into a full on secret war for Mankind, it's great.
It's realistic too. It's how the real life which hunts went. People were turning on each other left and right. Someone offends you? Claim his wife is a witch. Want your neighbors land? You've seen him consorting with demons in the forest. A woman rejects you? I think she ate those kids who went missing last month.
I mean, it's more that they don't go public because nobody would actually _believe_ them. And, in the case of the intelligence community, it's because they're too _paranoid_ to share any information.
They do this in the series called The Dresden Files too, mostly. The idea is that humanity is a fucking nuke, basically. The moment they fully accept that magic and fae and necromancy exists is the moment you get a radioactive universe from the absolute batshit insanity it would cause
As Cotton Mather himself pointed out, the trick to ending witch hunts in New England was to accuse the wife of someone political and influential enough to say “right, we’re done here, time to move on.”
Please tell me "evil is a sucker's game" was a vampire pun.
Unintended!
Humanity was supposed to be your real hit points.
I made this mistake as well, theyre not talking about (the Path of) Humanity, they're talking about the totality of humans.
Gotta cling to _any_ form of humanity left in you, after all.
@@vee-bee-a by tooth and nail, as it were.
every session i dm'd didn't start as "how could i threaten a characters life and well being" but rather "what could i hit someone with that would stain their soul"
vatican black ops teams is the coolest concept ever
if you haven't seen Team4Star's Hellsing Abridged, I recommend it if that's your cup of tea
Bronze Age Pervert going on about the Trad Cath Mestizo papal infantry warding off the a siege of RadFem WEF thrals. The concept was hilarious, but I suspect more plausible than any of us would admit.
Deus Vult!
They are illustrated during the fall of Vienna in the lst pages of the player's handbook, I think
Black ops operatives armed with rifles with incendiary rounds as primary and blessed longswords for cqc
I do believe the Entity from Bloodhunt can be described as one
"You suffer, you die, you lose." That is perfect!
Oh shit last time i was this early Cain was still in the process of disABELing his brother!
I'll se myself out...
Interesting take but it undermines greatly the fact evil is also in humanity. Vampires are not alone against the living. As humanity preys on itself, there will always be humans who will thrive and enjoy working for vampires, no matter if they are bought with gold, blood or promises. And it's how vampires survive in the 21st century.
@@nyanko2077 Mankind is good.
@blacklodgegames nyanko's take was nuanced and correct. Your video is good, but of course it is not the full story.
And? it doesnt matter if a person is good or bad if they find out a predeator that prefers eating humans is around their first thought will how do I protect myself and the people I love. There are some people who will be willing to work for them but if the monster ever appears weak or cant meet the promises made they will have surounded themselves with people who will betray anything for their own desires
@@blacklodgegames So religious zealots and over-reaching intelligence agencies operating completely off the books and in a blatantly illegal fashion to orchestrate a secret genocide is... "good"?
@@killerhellhoundA lot of the states you play are not terrible nice. WoD in general looks baroque and oppressive as well. These states mostly use these security tools on people, and seems like they accidentally started a campaign to purge vampires. The Vatican is probably closest to the idealist goals.
Yes, humanity _does_ matter...
I still miss my little ghouly, Heather Poe. I hope she lived well.
My man, coming home after a long night fighting monsters, and finding the flat empty was one of the worst things that has ever happened to me while gaming.
@@TARMHeLLBetter than watching her die.
She does not go well.
Remember back in the earlier editions where Cain would hold court in the First City and orate about how, on the Day of Judgement, the One Above All would punish Kindred and that their cries for mercy would fall on deaf ears?
Again I am one of the minority VtR players (1st edition mostly) but this was ABSOLUTELY how I handled PC’s who went too far. Wanna act up? Well. Then you get to meet up with the Hunters who aren’t just desperate people; you get to meet up with TFV… in their power armor. And the neat thing is? You can make this a cornerstone of a campaign. Let the abuses and blood wars get too visible. Then hope you can survive the dawn raids from the Inquisition and Task Force Valkyrie. Or even weirder shit. See here some of the antagonistic THINGS in the Werewolf line.
High risk no-knock warrants executed at breakfast time can really slow a p.c. down
Old school represent. For every campaign, I created some low level hunters who were always active and might wind up on the PC's trail if they screwed up. Usually local cops who know nothing of the supernatural (who had Cam/Anarch ghoul moles in their department to keep an eye on them) because they would be the first to see the usual evidence (exsanguinated bodies etc). Then one tier up, a couple of feds at the local field office, one of whom has suspicions that something like vampires might exist, but nothing concrete. Next tier up, The Society of Leopold had a couple of moles in strategic places (law enforcement, coroner's office), silently listening for clues. Next up, an SoL strike team that starts out unaware and outside the area. Then I let the chips fall where they may based on player actions, off camera. I pulled no punches on hunters, but the hunters were very cautious and meticulous about their work.
In Esoteric Enterprises, there is a legal attention level for the group. It increases every time you do crimes and fail to cover it up. The state is not aware of your little group specifically at the campaign start. This is partly permanent. It represents the increasing awareness the state has of your band of goons, and how much resources are dedicated to you. Police responses will be harsher, reactions with representatives of the state worse.
Man, this feels like how we used to play Masquerade when we started some 25 years back. That is to say the most boring and paranoid play possible - "you make one mistake you mess up the Masquerade and you have Vamp Kill Team 6 offing your character". That kind of approach to the game makes you play the most paranoid game you possibly can, which for a good deal of people won't be fun. If that's what your table enjoys, all the power to them, but this shouldn't be the default for every game.
This is why I love that small note in Requiem 2e that flat out tells you that Traditions are meant to be broken. It is more dramatic to try hiding a secret childe you had without permission than to have the opening of Bloodlines 1 play out with you instantly getting staked and beheaded. It is more interesting if you murder some other vampire and get away with it, or if someone finds out they use it as a leverage against you rather than instantly turning you in. And similaly, it's more interesting if you have to do damage control after a Masquerade breach by tracking the various witnesses down and dealing with them rather than the situation instantly escalating to a killsquad.
Besides, have you seen how dysfunctional people and organisations can really be? How January 6th wasn't stopped by the military or the police, how Trump almost got got by a lone wolf despite having secret service and police knowing about the guy? How you have Panama Papers and Epstein files just sitting there with nobody getting charged with anything? How some big religions in the US have blacksites where people disappear in? How an entire police squad didn't want to go into a school to stop one kid with a gun? Or heck, remember how in 2016 we had a lot of weird clown sightings and nothing came of that?
Chances are sure the police and other people would know about vampires and werewolves, but their modus operandi would be "there is a frenzied vampire on the loose, all cops avoid the area unless you also want to be the victim". Take the cynical view that is so prevelant in the World of Darkness and assume nobody would get involved unless the situation would threaten the bottom line of someone rich and important, which guess what, chances are would be a supernatural or their underling.
Also, if you want things to be "realistic", why stop at someone breaking the Masquerade? If the world already knows about vampires because someone messed up at some point in the past and there are entire organisations that have vivisected a few vampires, why would they be stopping at being reactive rather than proactive? Why wouldn't they be deploying thermal cameras everywhere to see who's a walking corpse? Why wouldn't they be sending people to natural vampire feeding places like bars, clubs and so on and snooping out if there is a leech problem there? Why wouldn't they be monitoring sewers for Nosferatu activity? Why wouldn't they keep a close eye on everyone with a blackout blinds in their house or everyone who logs onto the Internet only during nighttime hours? Why wouldn't they track all cars at night and see if any of them congregate in one place regularly while normally they never meet? Why wouldn't they viciously interrogate anyone they capture that could lead them to other vampires? Just because the PCs didn't break the Masquerade doesn't mean the world would hold its punches...
But in the end, it's all about what kind of stories you want to tell at your table collectively. If you do want to have characters be afraid of getting themselves exposed, go for it. If you want to throw cars in a setting where people are afraid to call the cops because they would be victimised or where all the social media have algorithms that suppress sightings of the supernatural, you can have that too. It's all up to your party.
This is the type of content I subscribed for. These types of videos are super helpful for inspiring games, food for thought, basically.
I agree.
LoL, I love people telling me that I am having fun the "wrong way"
@@1cfbdmdd you are, and it's sad.
Can we all take a moment, to bask in the hypocrisy, given the world as it is right now, of humans pretending that they are somehow not the monsters on the same level as any vampire.
Not a single one of the real true genocides of the world, was the fault of vampires.
It's canon that from the shitty Austrian painter, to the mega genocide of the Americas, and everything that happened in the real world before or after, it's on humanity.
I applaud 5th edition for upping the stakes of the game.
But humanity doesn't get a pass on its ends and an easy route to throw on the cloak of the good guys because there are other monsters out there.
It's not about the triumph of the good.
It's about humanity countenancing the existence of no monsters except itself.
The bulk of the world will not tolerate being afraid of something above them in the food chain. Sharks, wolves, athletes of a different skin color. Women who make them feel small because they are small.
The existence of a pretty thing they can't possess.
Nah. Humanity isn't the loan hero in the darkness. It's the devil explaining that hell has room for exactly one satan and it ain't you, vlad.
holy shit, man. 😅
@@betenoireindustries *bow* I do what I can.
Therapist: “The inquisition isn’t real, they can’t hurt you…”
The inquisition:
Okay but....The Camarilla running a massive surveillance state in the modern world does kind of make sense...I mean, forget about the church somehow not being evil on near every level. Politicians love, no, crave power to a level that makes a Kindred's desire for blood seem like a tiny little case of the munchies. There's no need to say 'oh the end is nigh' if you can pull a full on satire of the modern surveillance state.
"The good guys always win"
I thought this was supposed to be a realistic game?
Haven't you read a history book? The good guys won every war ever fought!
Past editions didn't dismiss a breach of the traditions as "a slap on the wrist", violations were always portrayed in the books as at the least, you're getting staked; humiliated and tortured, and at worst, death. V5 took the second inquisition seriously and that's commendable, but it plays very fast and loose with the lore. Outright changes aspects of the clans and the setting, it's a reboot; not a continuation.
Correct, the current edition is a mixed bag. We are planning a series of clan videos addressing some of the big issues with them as well.
The good things in V5 are *great*, the bad things are *really* bad.
definitely a reboot or a "safe and corrected" version of it, with not a few problems. But some good things too, like the one explained in the video.
sure, in the past a masquarade breach was a bad thing, but it's consequence stopped at the will of the sheriff or prince and no setting-changing consequences would really come out of it. In V5 a masquarade breach is potentially devastating for all the vampires in a whole region if not nation (and rightfully so).
It's a severe challenge for the PC, while in the past was just an annoyance. It's good because curatils the power of the players, and rebalance the powerscale between their vampire pcs and mere humans.
@@TertiumNondatur-e2j yep, mixed bag. This is one area where they got it right
@@TertiumNondatur-e2j old VtM handwaved a lot of the BTS of covering up masquerade breaches. You were hunted by vampires rather than humans because so many palms needed to be greased by those vampires with the power to cover up for your transgressions. At least, that's how I've always understood it.
@@kdolo1887 sure! and that's why masquarade problems never got beyond the vampire court. But it's not the 90s anymore. It wouldn't make sense to keep doing that in the always connected- information submerged world we live in today. THe answer to that is: humanity knows of vampirism, and they're fighting it (2nd inq.)
Thumbs up for the Church of the Cosmic Skull shirt
Vampire I can juggle a dumpster: human i cast cruise missile, Vampire what? 🔥🔥
I feel the need to highlight, while this video is certainly a valid interpretation of a way you can run/play vampire, to say vampire reveling in the curse is a "profound misunderstanding of the game" (4:58) is demonstrably false. In fact saying the world of darkness "there is no illusion the monsters will win in the end" or that the good guys will always win is actually demonstrably- a profound misunderstanding of the setting. Spoilers Bellow:
In the world of darkness the setting is doomed. If you follow vampire the original "apocalypse scenario" was either the rapture happened and vampires had to escape existence, The vampires are given a trial by god to be redeemed many of which fail, or the antediluvians awoke and Tzimisce liquidated and absorbed the mortal population (unless stopped by the characters who actually then are the good triumphing over evil and get to retain their abilities without the downsides of the curse. The only example of the monsters not winning in the end all be it thanks to the monsters). In the larger world, should the vampire apocalypse fail to be enacted, demon the fallen, werewolf the apocalypse (in the name), wraith the oblivion all have their own end of days scenarios (ones that the humans likewise wont be able to stop). Hunters and humans as a whole are characterized by their own willingness to join in with evil (being aiding the dark powers or "the ends justify the means"), turn a blind eye, or still come up with the wrong conclusion despite all their technological advances. Enjoy killing a bit to much, even vampires many of whom still retain their humanity, and you become a monster yourself in the form of a "slasher". Even if the end of days were averted slashers and true fae from changeling the lost would continue to plague humanity and ruin individual lives until the end of time.
It should also be said, that if you specifically build a character for combat (something that is not always done as the multiple dice system can be make it tedious) and play smart it is actually quite easy to wipe out entire strike teams of hunters with little to no risk regardless of what their equipped with. Vampires have super human endurance, strength, speed, senses, and magic and are capable of using all of the technology humans can and more. Their only weaknesses being religious artifacts, fire, and the claws/teeth of were wolves. It should be noted this was easier in older editions, especially v20, were as their viability in combat took quite a nerf in 5e. The main reason vampires are on the back foot is due to their own self imposed incompetence/reliance on the masquerade having left them complacent. Few to no sheriffs, for example, have more than 3 dots in any of their disciplines yet have a wide range of skills and additional disciplines for the sake of "the masquerade" even though at a first glance this shouldn't be part of their job description. Your average well trained soldier having 3 dots in the relevant stat/skill with a specialty rolling 7 dice you can slog off bullets and melee strikes provided you have a good amount in fortitude, incendiary ammunition can be shot an ignited killing the user well before it can be used on a vamp with a reasonable amount of celerity, and even with religious artifacts like swords your not likely to best a vampire in melee if they have specked for it. Vampires take more to kill, hit harder, faster, and more frequently. And that's only if they choose to engage you directly. Any weapons humans could turn against vampires can also be used by the vampires themselves. If you add in the fact vampires can have literal fortunes as a background and their ability for super-strength they could be outfitted with weapons and armor any human couldn't hope of using, also potentially nullifying their inherent weaknesses.
Again, if you want to run a game with the mentality outlined in the video then that's fine, but you its a design choice not an inherent truth. Should your storyteller/game-master have a different mind/understanding of the setting and you were to tell them they have a "profound misunderstanding of the game" its not likely to go down well. Especially if they've been playing since the 90's.
Wrong.
@@blacklodgegames Care to elaborate...?
@@josephboyle1273 no.
@@blacklodgegames Guess that tell's people all they need to know about how much value your opinion/input has.
More fool me for engaging in discussion in the first place, i suppose. Shame really.
Thanks for saving me from committing any further time, and good luck with the channel 😘
Mortals can easily kill your vampire while he's asleep
Some of my friends caused a vampire brawl in a nightclub in one of their vampire the masquerade campaigns, and some were worried about what the prince was going to do.
Next session the inquisition had arrived in force into the city and they had to hightail it out of their lairs from the children of the knights Templar and seal team six.
I love how Humanity’s a threat again
This video should be required reading for players. Great breakdown. Loved the little skit with Frost talking himself into a drone strike.
I believe that your are correct that humans are a force to be reckoned with, but I think it's more in the way of a storm. Yes it is a force to be reckoned with, but that doesn't mean you can't survive. i.e "The comming storm cannot be stopped, but it can be endured."
My impression of typical Vampire PCs is that you play the high-generation chaff the elders can hide behind.
One fun prologue idea you can do for a VTM game is to play as your group's sires, on the day the Masquerade died, some time before your main game starts. Show the real terror and panic that resonates in a city as the Vamp's entire world crumbles around them, almost killing them, and giving your characters, a real, lived fear of the world they've been thrust into because they have the tales of the Sires who watched it all burn.
As a representative of the Polish Bureau IX in the Second Inquisition, I approve of this message...
I don't know, man... If the objective was to make me want to play vampires in V5, this video only made me want to play Catholic vampire hunters.
Looks like the only Hunter: the Reckoning book is still the one from 1999. 😥
Hands down my favorite chronicle was an Inquistion one based on Hunters Hunted.
You could try Hunter: The Vigil.
Fair enough haha
New Hunter: The Reckoning (5th edition) is awesome!
It brings you down on the ground and make you STRUGGLE to fight those monsters
@@shogert2370 oh, there is such a book. I was looking at the WoD wiki and I must have failed to find it
I firmly believe that any ttrpg is about what your particular table prefers (and yes, I know that it's extremely controversial in the community in general and specifically in WoD). But the concept itself is pretty empowering
I can agree with that, I've often gotten a lot of push back when I've said there is no wrong way to play. Just the wrong way for a given group.
Sadly the ability to recognize this and leave respectfully seems to be a lost art.
I can't say I agree with you 100%. I mean, that was always the theme of Vampire and always very present way before 5e. AKA - that if they got 'too loud' humanity was going to come down on them like a ton of bricks. Even the Sabbat (in the early books) would destroy or mutilate packs that broke the masquerade too much (assuming it could get the government agencies involved).
You kind of proved him right in your own comment though. "Even the Sabbat would destroy or mutilate packs that broke the masquerade too much." Exactly, the Sabbat, not Humanity. That's his point I think, it was always the vampires enforcing the masquerade on themselves and the reason why being just fluff basically, now instead of even the Sabbat mutilating or destroying packs that broke the masquerade it's Vatican black ops squads destroying packs that break the masquerade. That makes the idea of the masquerade actually believable, instead of being "oh you broke the rules now we punish you" it's more like "this is WHY we have these rules, now suffer the consequences."
To put it in Jungian terms, playing Vampire can be a very productive way of facing and integrating aspects of your own shadow. You safely get to do things you would never do in reality, and you even get to enjoy doing them. But if played correctly you also get to experience the cost of doing them. That’s why it’s a game of ‘personal horror’- because you should be at least a little unsettled by what you are prepared to do and who you would become, given the opportunity.
It's a bold take, saying how revelling in the power is misunderstanding the game. It comes across as telling people they're playing the game wrong, which is a pointless stance to take in a hobby centred around improv. I always saw it as a game of survival in a grim setting, where anything can prove your undoing.
People are playing the game wrong.
You are completely correct that the core theme of vampire the masquerade is survival. The op has very strong opinions of how his world of darkness is like which is common with fans of the game. Sadly it always causes friction. The op is literally calling people the devil cause their take on humanity in wod is less idealistic than his. It's a bit sad.
@@doncoyote68 I agree. I think revelling in power is a natural reaction, at least at first. You learn of this new existence, there's uncertainty and fear, then you find out what you can do. Feeling powerful does feel good and people can get hooked on that. It can also lead to one's downfall and the OP even talks about how that's a good thing. But we should live and let live. People playing differently doesn't hurt anyone.
Not that this is what you're doing, but getting upset over people saying you or others are playing the game wrong is equally pointless
I love your streams… but your videos are on a whole other level. The script and delivery are magnificent. The music and the visuals are great. Excellent job! Looking forward to more videos. Thank you.
Thank you very much!
Finally, someone gets it. I've always played V:tM with high regards about Humanity/Paths, and how thr real "personal horror" is about how the path score is going to slip no matter what.
Even the nicest, most humane of vampires is just one frenzy, one hunger pang, one bad day away from ripping his best friend's throat out.
I am the pope strongest soldier
Im not even a Vampire guy, but I tossed a sub just for the cosmic skull shirt. Brother Bill would be pleased.
Oh boy finding good Vampire Masquerade content has been a trial and a half, but thank you guys for providing.
I would say my character for my Gms Vampire chronicle is fully committed to finding a cure for his vampirism, but in your opinion how can I have that be my goal without like hamstringing the party?
It can be the goal, but I wouldn't put a cure in the game if I were GM
@@blacklodgegames Oh, still not gonna stop me from trying to retain my humanity though.
Even if it’s just a tear drop of humanity within me by the end of the chronicle, I think it would still be worth it.
@@StormCrow702 exactly!
Can mages cure vampirism in the World of Darkness?
@@aleidius192 no, but the founding of clan tremere was done by mages *stealing* the curse from an ancient vampire.
I feel like this swings too far in the other direction. If you take the world seriously, like really seriously, then you would realize that humans are bad enough at dealing with mundane problems that I have little faith in our ability to offer effective resistance to an immortal race of superpowered cannibals. It also feels strange to equate humanity with good. Mythical heroes are special. They don't represent humanity in general. Now, I agree that vampires are evil and self-destructive. That being the case, I think it would be more suitable to portray humanity as a giant, dysfunctional, but nonetheless unstopable machine. It's broken in a hundred different ways, slow to react, and prone to error but will crush you if you're too bold and stupid. Humanity crushes vampires not because they're hyper-competent or morally superior but because at the end of the day they can live without vampires and vampires can never live without them.
BEGONE BLACK PILL
@@blacklodgegames Jesus alone can save us from the vampires is that white pill enough
Thing about humanity is that we're not that good at ~solving~ problems, but we've got a real knack for ~blowing problems up~.
We might drag our feet when it comes to stuff like global warming or Covid. But directing the entire might of the military-industrial complex toward the total genocide of a race of beings? That is (unfortunately) right in our wheelhouse.
isn't that just because mundane problems are mundane? think a vampire cabal would be treated more like a terrorist org. than climate change, covid, or some pest infestation
Mundane issues aren't the same as an enclave of super-mafia blood drinkers. You cant shoot away Flu season. You can shoot away Vampires. Of course, some are going to fall through the cracks but in a universe with mages, technocrats, hunters, and other vampires infighting, they will be reduced to the point of nonexistence eventually. Hell, the reason why the Technocracy doesn't target them outside of specific circumstances is because they know it would be more efficient to just let them kill each other off, and they will eventually crumble under their own weight.
Great to see another Vampire vid, I hope to see more!
You will!
I want to play as the Humans exterminating Vampires. Militant Hunter squads.
Citing that there are so many stories about Humanity triumphing over the forces of evil reminds me of a short Greek story in which a man is conversing with a lion in front of a statue depicting Hercules slaying the Nemean lion. He tries to use the statue as proof of mankind's superiority over beasts, only for the lion to retort with "It was a human who carved it." - Which basically means that those stories about humanity's victory are just a case of humanity stroking its own ego. Why would Humanity want to tell stories which depict itself in less positive light, or as being inferior to their enemies? The point of the story is meant to inspire Humanity, not demoralize it. In a 'realistic' setting, that actually understands the nature of Humanity and its psychology, the monsters would have a far easier time of it than our pop culture stories would have us believe.
After all, while it's true there are many stories about Humanity triumphing over monsters, there are also many stories which now present Humanity as being the 'greatest monster of all.' Why do you think so many monsters are depicted as being able to mimic the appearance of humans? It serves as a metaphor for humanity's own savage nature, and a warning that anyone of us could become just as bad as the creatures we fight. "He who fights with monsters should be careful, lest he himself become one."
Why is the grizzly bear on the CA flag if there are no grizzly bears in CA?
Well said my friend, well said. To me the message of Vampire has always been: There is a monster in all of us. So will you let it win, or instead struggle to see it's defeat?
As someone whos only just getting into VTM, im loving your videos on the subject matter.
Yes. In the 90s it was still easy to be a vampire, the risk of getting caught was small. As the danger due to the modern age increased, vampires turned from disgusting monsters into beautiful, shiny-skinned handsome boys. Could it be a coincidence?
Fortunately, no one wants their existence to be revealed. Neither they, nor the secret services, and even if these two made a mistake, the New World Order would intervene with all its might.
So the whole thing can remain a cool secret war. Humans VS Vampires
Early Delta Green has the same deal. There was no huge giants soaking up data, and no Homeland Security era. A cell phone is a little box.
Ummmm this is how we played it in 2nd ed back in the 90's. Inquisition, government agents, werewolves, technocracy, hunters, etc etc etc were all parts of the game and my group ensured it was done right. Blood hunt wasn't the last recourse, it was the primary solution unless you had ties in Elysium.
Yes, but that's something individuals had to choose to do. It's good that V5 directly integrated it as canon background material.
I always wondered how all lines would blend together.
Sometimes it felt like WW felt they needed to one-up each book.
Another great video. Thank you. It's getting me amped for my upcoming V5 game.
I mean, personally, i always found the idea of playing a hunter or a more normal human and standing against all the things that go bump in the night more to my liking.
When you are in way over your head fighting monsters that can turn you into chuncky salsa with a touch, but you use everything at your disposal to blind side them, it is an absolute blast of a time.
I can see some vamps hoping the Antediluvians that are left rise up, in the vain (vein?) hope that they can pluck the thorn of modern humanity from the paw of the vampire.
Hmmm I may make a v5 character like that.
Need that Sabbat vid my guys
@@akephalos2415 all in good time
@@blacklodgegames Still waiting. I'm about to run a Sabbat game and your Camarilla video absolutely broke my brain and I want to see your thoughts on the Sabbat before I start my game next month.
@thedarkdowager we are starting work on it next week. Will be out before the end of the year.
@@blacklodgegames SUBSCRIBED!
In the older version of world of darkness you always had this interesting means of balance. And the balance was that characters who started weak had the most potential for growth. And characters who started strong would quickly peak and be out classed. It was easier to play a werewolf. But a werewolf could never be as strong as a vampire. Vampires were kind of a middle ground but a high generation vampire at it's core is basically a human. Weak but with huge potential for growth. On the other hand a true human could get true faith which was basically a defensive aura that also had the potential of doing enormous damage. That was a big thing in the dark ages book. If your vampires were too public eventually inquisition would come and amongst them would be high level true faith wielders and just getting near them would slaughter you.
@@exturkconner I think people really tend to underestimate how much of a weakness only being active at night is for a vampire.
@@blacklodgegamesI always imagined vampires would quickly start to build shells around them.
As a high-generation vampire you are the shell for your elders at times.
You're literally talking about the second of eight signs of Gahenna as if it's the end of the story. The Traditional Foes increase their violence, AND THEN the Antediluvians awaken. The inquisition is a problem for the Camarilla who doesn't believe in Gehenna, sure, but there is not, "the good guys always win" in the world of darkness, because the "good guys" aren't even playing the right game. The idea that there's good guys in the world of darkness is itself a ridiculous concept when you consider the inquisition itself is sponsored by the Sabbat and the Technocracy.
I’ve held off on starting a new V5 game until I see the rest of your stuff in this subject. I’m enjoying it thoroughly. Would love to see your takes on the anarchs and sabat.
Those will come at some point, but we may visit the clans first
The Anarchs are petulant and stupid and would never be allowed to exist. The Sabbat are horrible but correct.
That section with John Paul III was incredibly badass. Where is it from?
The Young Pope. Amazing show, very based.
I love content like this. You guys always have something interesting to say on this subject.
Also, this totally makes sense. In a world of mass surveillance, camera phones and Big Data, it would be almost impossible to hide, especially over a long term. And there's something truly refreshing about the idea that the biggest threat is not another monster or an evil god or a cabal of techno-wizards but just plain ole vanilla humanity, with our vast numbers and terrifying weapons. That's not an enemy you can fight, that's one you try to survive.
I did have the idea of playing a Greek Tragic style hero, a Ventrue embraced and raised up in the military, basically using his powers to be a nocturnal Captain America, but was forced to return to civilian life when the military started scouring their ranks of vampires wherever they could be found. Still an evil vampire with a Ventrue superiority complex, but compared to others he seems like a tragic hero, saving lives with vampire powers, but forced to feed on those same lives to survive.
In the military, first formation is usually between 0600 and 0800, standing tall in the sunrise. So basically, the ranks would be scoured of kindred almost every morning. Probably ex-military before the embrace would work better.
I figured his sire would’ve been in the higher brass along with a few other plants by the Camarilla, ensuring the spread and keeping track of government knowledge, the same way they do in civilian society. He would’ve probably been excluded from typical drills, due to being part of a later guard rotation or set in a different sector entirely to standard troops.
We are told that the kindred have infiltrated all forms of government and organizations, at least before the Information Age, so he would’ve been returning to civilian life just as cellphones were becoming a big thing.
*Smartphones, not cellphones.
I had a V:TR character concept that was some what similar, in so far as it was a vampire trying to do good with it's powers. He was a Mekhet who used Auspex to act a psychic investigator aiding the police. The cops he worked with figured out pretty quickly that the pale guy who only came out at night and had spooky powers was a vampire, but they actively covered for him because he helped bring down some of the worst mortal scum in the city.
I just found this channel, I enjoyed the video and lore, but I would've subscribed regardless of my personal enjoyment, as you're a fellow lamb of brother Bill Fisher.
We must expand the cult.
The vampire videos on this channel are absolutely outstanding, such a strong grasp of the themes and game
This is by far the best explanation I ever received of a warning about the masquerade!!
Thank you!
I usually put a strict rules when come to masquerade.
Only 3 and you’re DEAD..
Break one level .
Vampire see you as suspicious and harder to negotiation with them but they won’t be hostile towards my players.
Human
Only few journalist stalk them.
Break level 2.
Vampires see how careless you are and even will scorn you out of hand unless if it utter necessity and personal gain from you. They won’t speak to you. difficulty of 4 and above.
Humans
You being stalk by man in black with well spy equipment and guns. Difficulty of 4 upon speaking with and all time being carry recording device in order to avoid being used discipline on them. (My LASOMBRA player love to tormented them with it haha!)
Level three break masquerade 3
NO VAMPIRE EVER WANT TO SPEAK TO YOU and might even kill you upon see you with no witness . You are danger to them all.
Humans
Your haven already being market by the special forces team with snipers all over building with kill team specialized on kill target with less eyes noticed .
Another great VTM video. Thanks!
As a harcore WOD fan since I played bloodlines when i was 18. This vid got me to subscribe. Look forward to seeing more.
Thank you.
I really came around on 5th Edition, recently. Their effort to refocus the scale of the game to the burdened, hopeless neonates trapped in a MLM from hell pays off in my opinion. Also hunger dice are a great idea, i always hated blood mana.
@@MrStrigori hunger dice are objectively better. Good to see you buddy
@@blacklodgegames I was always lurking. Try my best to recommend your channel, you got some german fans out here waiting on your Kickstarter ;)
@@MrStrigori hell yeah man
"Good allways win"
Gret video! Thx!
Humans have the advantage of innovation and ingenuity.
The problem with immortals is that they aren't visionary. They live forever but live in the moment.
I would go so far as to say vampirism would be akin to a subtle mental disorder. They aren't stupid, per se, but vampires are never going to industrialize.
I love the vid. It's not about being lords of the night, it's about to try managing to get by to the next one
I wonder how much of the change to Humanity, the food source, itself has become the main enemy for the Vampire PC is the work of Kenneth Hite.
The guy IMO is one of the greatest 'Idea Men' ever to hit the RPG scene. His 'Nights Black Agents' Spy World/Black Ops Vampire hunting RPG is basically the same idea but from the Human perspective instead of the Vampires.
Not familiar with him or that game, will have to check it out
Delta Green started to touch on that early on. You already played meddling investigators, but Pagan thought people were drawn to the framework of an organization. And a badge quickly let the players get through the mundane parts of investigations.
Ironically, it was a member of the Sabbatt who told me to stay on the path of humanity.
"Be sure you are fully aware of what you are giving up."
My problem with Humanity is that most people treated it like some kind of morality system.
Humanity has nothing to do with good or bad. Humanity can be understood very simply and very consistently: it’s your connection to life as a human being.
Vampires have an innate desire to kill, which is magical in nature. This desire is kept in check by one’s connection to humanity.
Generally speaking, all mentally sound humans have Humanity 10, even if they are immoral.
The experience of becoming a vampire and feeding regularly automatically lowers your Humanity, which is why Kindred don’t start with 10.
Talking about mankind in this video, not the humanity mechanic
Love the VTM vids, please keep them coming! (how I found the channel, seems there's a void for this content)
A lot more to come over time
Another seminal video. 🔥
Paths of Enlightenment are better than Humanity. I never understood why the creators were hell-bent on forcing you to play weepy-ass Louis when deep down we're all Lestats.
Paths are awesome.
Humanity IS a path. It's Vampires aping being human to stave off the Beast, that's why it was so much more restrictive than a human just being human. Ironically, Paths are exactly the kind of "Evil is fun" that this video is railing against.
@@kdolo1887 Paths are the logical conclusion for the villains. Your psyche would likely not survive if you stuck to humanity. You are right though, that some of the paths are just unrepentant evil. An interesting topic to think about.
@kdolo1887 Yeah but how many games can you possibly play where you are sitting around crying about living forever with superpowers. For my friends, not even once lol.
@@docfortune lol
I do like the idea of vampires taking hold of some lesser nations, a pact for increased power for a weak or failing government and a veil of protection for the vampires as these attacks against them would be seen as unsanctioned acts of war by the masses
This might be the best argument for the chronicles of darkness I've ever seen
I played a vampire who stuck to humanity as much as they could. (Typical hate the sire stuff.) He managed to reach humanity ten, over a long time. His biggest flaw as one of the sneaky boys was that he had a large habit of dialibrising opposition in other kindred.
By the end he was a very high generation (5th-4th) I think? And we ended the game with him and a few others breaking away from the Carmarilla due to beginning of the final nights coming.
Absolute banger of a video, thank you for putting out quality content!
I say this from the bottom of my heart: BLG is f--king onto something with these types of XoD vids. This made my hairs stand up on end man. XoD fans are out here f--king STARVING for good content and you two are delivering more (in terms of video content) than Paradox Interactive, White Wolf, Onyx Path, or Renegade Studios ever did COMBINED. I could care less about making you two feel good and blowing smoke up your ass for w/e reason; I'm just being 100% honest. This content is f--king FIRE and I want MOAR.
.
I know from past livestreams you two aren't the biggest fans of Mage which sucks because I would LOVE BLG to cover Mage in the same way it's covering vampire. F--k man if you think about it ESPECIALLY in the context of the video, The Technocracy should have always been the multi splat spanning antagonist every splat should have had. Outside the storytelling system itself and the shared world, The Technocracy should have always been the connective tissue that binds all the games together. This could range from total normies delivering precision missile strikes (1:45) onto careless vampire princes, cleaning out Black Spiral Lairs with HIT Marks, or dragging Changelings kicking and screaming back to the lab. And they don't do this because they're cartoonishly evil. They do this because they're fucking horrorfied of what they discovered. They're the result of what happens when humanity is utterly united against a threat ala the end of the original Watchmen comic and movie.
.
tl;dr: GREAT video. Pretty please try to warm up to mage content. ;)
In Esoteric Enterprises, mages are outlawed as well. They are another type of street gang next to vampires and dudes who sell human organs.
What I like about V5 is how it kicked open the doors to things. Things that were are not anymore.
Indeed the Chantry failing, their blood failling, it opened up so much. You can have Tremere who are REBELS. Or have their own ideas...
So yeah I like what they have done!
The hunger system is definitely something the system needed for more atmosphere.
the good guys always win, nice
The last thing they will hear before they’re cast into Tartarus will be “Deo Gratias”
Absolutely KINO media references here, kings
This is one of the best vids on RUclips, and it doesn't need the context of Vampire: the Masquerade to make it great either.
Thank you!
I love the double misunderstandings of Vampires VS Hunters. Vampires when they see little too many hunters in the same place think the second inquisition is hunting them down and the hunters are just a ragtag group of people hunting cryptids for shits and giggles
Makes me wonder whether, by 6th edition, the last remaining vampires will be something equivalent to Task Force X. Because I think we can pretty much count on the intelligence agencies not to let *all* the supernatural stealth monsters go to waste. Once their numbers have been well and truly decimated, something like Operation Paperclip seems inevitable.
2nd Inquisition had different states plus the Vatican as part of a sort of vampire coordination council. The members had different ideas on the mission specifics.
I think one of them was forcibly recruiting monsters. Another was polishing numbers to look nicer.
the funny thing is, i have a concept in mind for a high humanity psychiatrist vamp, and the way i see him dying is after a few centuries of helping people, he sees this futility and decides to go out his own way. sitting on a park bench, watching his last sunrise. smiling to himself bc hes not getting ganked by some sabbat fuck, or some ambitious camarilla politician, hes simply meeting an end after doing his best to deny his nature for over a century.
Your VtM videos are so amazing! Looking forward to more! 🤘🏻
@@SigfridSWE lots more to come, thanks for watching
well if that is how you feel you uninvited to my vampire game where everyone is also a "My Little Pony"
Vampires were always at the bottom of the food chain, from the bottom up:
-Vampires
-Fey
-Werewolves
-Mages
-Demons
-Surprise shotgun from seal team 6
-Balistic missile for good measure
"V5 took the game seriously"
*cough cough* hecata *cough cough* amalgams
When you really think about it, you don't even play the vampire, the beast does, you play as the vampire's humanity desperately clinging on for dear life. When you lose your humanity, you the player no longer controls the character.
Was I the only one who thought that this video is about the path of humanity?
This goes hard
This is why hunter the vigil is the best game
Great points and I mostly agree. Where I disagree is the idea that humanity is the good triumphing over evil or a simple black/white analysis of vampires vs. humans. I don't think VtM has, or should have, good guys. The SI may be targeting vampires, who are the most overt monsters, but at its root it's not for noble reasons. At the organizational level I think the SI wants to eliminate any competing power that could undermine the hold and sway humans most directly behind governments and other powerful interests have over the human population. Eliminating a dangerous competitor that can easily, and correctly, be labeled a universally agreed upon "other". Individuals in the SI can run the full gamut from people for whom the fight has become personal with motivations like revenge, those who just want to commit violence and kick teeth in while perhaps convincing themselves they're the good guys, and yes also some who genuinely want to make the world better.
A mashup game of Delta Green and VTM would be exactly what he is describing.
Great video. I also loved the one about vampires as the mafia, it's great. I hope you can make more about the other line of games, specially Hunter in oWOD.
This argument carries its own demise within itself. If we assume that humanity is competent in VtM, then by consequence vampires must be doubly so; firstly because they started out human, secondly because vampires have to outplay humans on a daily basis just to survive, let alone thrive. Humanity simply cannot win against vampires without plot armour, which this whole spiel about human agencies getting their shit together is. If anything, the modern age is providing more and more means for vampires to secure total victory. Do you honestly think that the Camarilla will just twiddle its thumbs while AI and mass surveillance become widespread? That the Catholic Church is a threat to anyone who isn't a minor? That the Sabbat and its Tzimisce membership would ignore the potential in a Vicissitude-enhanced global plague? Yes but then you have to deliberately pull an "old vampires dumb" as well as a good ol' "humanity fuck yeah", at which point you might as well be playing 40K.
I would also argue that it is precisely the power trip and its consequences that make VtM so interesting. Power does not corrupt, it only enables the corruption within you to come alive from its dormancy. That's where the "Beast" gets you, which is ultimately the unconfronted darkness in all of us, which is kept in check less by our conscious choices and character and more by our lack of power. It is easier to "do good" and "be good" if indulging your impulses is not a viable option: there is no true choice. Just consider how common "swatting" has become (in short: when someone sends cops to a streamer's house via false claims; there are youtube vids about this), that should be proof enough.
And lastly: good? Evil? Hero? Monster? They are all judgements. You cannot objectively become either, only within a commonly accepted set of values. One nation's butcher is another nation's hero in a war.
@@Khorothis
1. The first inquisition brought the kindred to their knees with torches and wooden stakes
2. Moral relativism is stupid and evil.
@@blacklodgegames Times have changed vastly since the First Inquisition, vampires included. I would also classify it as "quality control culling".
Morality is rooted in whatever values a given individual or group proscribes to exist. Sure, there are practical bits of morality revolving around maintaining good relationships and a sustainable environment but it is ultimately subjective. Whenever a large enough group emerged proposing their brand of objective morality, it inevitably went horribly wrong, history is littered with them.
@@blacklodgegames Moral relativism isn't stupid, it can be evil as hell tho. I'll give you that.