The (Short) Peak of Italian Fighters: Macchi C.205 Veltro
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- In this video, we talk about the Macchi C.205 Veltro and its two predecessors, the C.202 Folgore and C.200 Saetta, a line of Italian fighter aircraft fielded by Fascist Italy in World War 2. We first talk about the failings of the Italian military during WW2 and what that can be attributed to, like their bad tanks and guns, and how their aircraft managed to rise above these failings and actually perform quite well. We start with the C.200, looking at its solid flight performance but more lacking combat performance.
We then look at the C.202 and how it represented a major improvement in both performance and technology, but also still needed refining and improving. We then move to the C.205, a fighter that represented an effective peak for Italian fighter designs during the war that, arguably, was as good as planes like America's P-51 Mustang or Germany's Fw 190 or Bf 109. We look at how the C.205 improved upon the C.202 and also why the C.205 was relegated to just a minor role despite its performance. We end with the high praise of pilot Eric Brown and how he viewed the Macchi fighter line.
In the 1920s/1930s, Italy was a frontrunner in the high-performance racing seaplanes. As with Britain's Supermarine, they used that racing technology to improve their fighter planes.
That's a legend... Sorry....
The Italians produced excellent fighters, but at the end of the war. Early on - the pilots didn't care for enclosed cockpits.
@@tonykeith76 which bit is a legend?
@@tonykeith76 ....Uh??
No such thing as Italy late in the war
As a plane guy, this is great. As a car guy, good god it’s pronounced like Alpha Row-MAY-Oh
I believe Italy kept up, design-wise, with the Allied forces due to their prior involvement with the Schneider Cup air races of the 1920s and 1930s. This competition was encouraged and underwritten by the countries involved, thereby hastening aero industry advancements. Great Britain gained the Spitfire as a direct result of their involvement with the racing. Macchi produced astoundingly advanced racing aircraft.
Macchi still holds the world record for world's fastest floatplane.
The companies that built the engines just didn’t come up with new designs. There were license built versions of the DB 601 and DB 605 engines. The M.C. 202 used primarily the license built version of the DB 601, which produced less HO than the original. Needless, the M.C. 202 was faster than the BF 109E which had the DB 601. It was a better airframe. The engine torque problem was solved with by extending one wing about 6 inches further.
After the war, Macchi sold M.C 205 fighters to countries like Egypt. These were actually upengined M.C. 202’s. The easy difference was the non retractable tail wheel of the earlier model. Israelis saboteurs bombed the factory to stop production of these aircraft.
@@CounterClawscurrently for "Fastest non-jet floatplane"
Also Caproni still holds one for "Highest altitude non-jet aircraft"
It's interesting to me how the Spitfire, a plane with massive wings a lots of drag, was derived from a _racing_ design. That thing does not seem designed for speed!
@@leeham6230 Wing area contribute in miniscule ammount to drag. Spitfire wings were very thin, like in Jet aircraft, which really contribute to drag reduction
Gotta love the Italian camouflage designs!
Right?!
The Africa camo schemes remind me of Pizza Crust. IDKY?
There is one correction I want to make on the front of Italian tanks: When considering their designed area of operations, the north Italian mountain ranges, they were actually quite capable for the restrictions that came with that; they had to be small and light to even get to the battlefields they were supposed to fight on, and by the time it became clear that they would be fighting on much different terrain, it was too late to do much (although they did make a valiant attempt at it); they were never top runners, but when used as intended, their tanks performed not too badly
I just find it funny he chastises Italy for building bad tanks despite being a member of the Axis powers, when oftentimes Japanese armor wasn't much better (or even worse). Honestly Germany was the only one of the three who could build a tank on par with the Allies.
Spot on. Actually the M13/40 was on par with british cruiser tanks with the added benefit to be capable of firing explosive shells, which british tanks weren't able to do, thus being able to give infantry support against opposing infantry. On rough terrain their suspension system was actually quite good, reliable and very easy to maintain and repair. OTOH if you ask a 13ton tank with a multi purpoise 47mm gun to perform against a 30 ton tank with a 75mm gun, one can't be surprised about the outcome.
@@pyronuke4768 Well, Japan had a similar thing as Italy in that regard: Their tanks had to be capable of amphibious landings in tropical islands. Again, never were top runners, but you'd be flat out incapable of operating most Wehrmacht tanks in that kind of mission profile
The Veltro was a sinister looking aircraft. Love the looks
1:11 this picture says it all; German soldiers walking by in disbelief while an Italian tanker looks confused at his situation
All things considered, it's quite amazing that Italy managed to produce several fighter designs capable of challenging Allied fighters.
Italian tanks and ships were better than American ones. If there's any country with bad equipment it's america.
Excellent video. If you could produce coverage on the G 55 and Re 2005 it would be greatly appreciated. I love these stylish Italian fighters.
Interesting vid once again.
Couple of pronunciation errors (I believe) - Macchi is pronounced with a "k" rather than "ch", so Mackie. And Alfa Romeo is Alfa "Romayo". Oh and Folgore is "Folgoray"
Video.
I wish creators used Forvo to learn pronunciation of names before stumbling over them dozens of times.
You Sir, are correct with all three of your pronunciations. Cheers.
As a petrol head I physically flinched every time Alfa was mentioned - thank you for doing God's work!
@gaz2251: Actually more like "Mockie"
pronunciation!
Thank you for this episode.
I have been looking into C.205 as a model kit maker lately. Right on my search; you published your awesome video.
Italeri do a good kit of it
I used to be BlueGolf after my Mk2 Golf hehe, changed it to Redgolf after my beautiful guards Red Mk2 Pasadena
Hasegawa has a 1/48 C.205 kit. Italeri's kit of the same scale is just a rebox of it too.
@@reinbeers5322Yup I will get that one.
@@reinbeers5322 Yup Im planning to buy that one.
@@BlueyWolf Can't go wrong with Hasegawa.
Note: many of the problems of Italy's technology, at the time, was lack to access to materials due to the long embargo imposed after the country's colonial adventures on Africa. Lack of nickel and other alloying metals led to underwhelming armour plates in tanks. Similarly, no access to good quality mica meant that the capacitors in Italian radios were unreliable and prone to fail, which then exposed their valves to damage... Keeping Italian radios working was a lot of work for a dedicated marconist, in planes that had the space for such a crew member.
I still prefer the Fiat G.55 Centauro, but the Veltro is a beauty in its own right.
To be fair to the Italian tank designers, their upgrades were painfully slow since requirements kept changing over and over delaying introduction of new models. At least they made a half-decent medium tank in the P26/40 late in the war, although far too late. Italians aircraft were quite nice, although production rate left a lot to be desired.
I wonder how they compared to Japans tank force?
@pandaphil as far as what was actually deployed by 1943, the Italians were marginally better. But compared to what Japan was making (only a couple hundred at best) by the end of the war (and never deployed), Japan has the edge.
@@thelordofcringeAlthough they didn't see combat the late-war Japanese tanks are kinda decent, at least on paper. Armor is on the thin side but they certainly don't lack killing power.
Ironically it seems Japan's problem was funding being essentially cut due to army politics rather than incompetence funnily enough, once the purse strings were opened again they rapidly started developing tanks to counter the M4 Sherman.
@@ArthionDevelop, yes, but its doubtful they ever could have produced the numbers needed to fight, well, anyone. Iirc, they had a single factory capable of producing each already limited line by that point, which is why even their most produced late-war tanks had mere dozens produced by VE day.
@@thelordofcringeThey made at least 140+ Type 3 Chi-Nu tanks, and the rest were mere prototypes at best. Funding tank development and production was low priority fortunately or unfortunately for them until the very end hence the end result.
The Veltro was a little faster than you think. It could out run the P51D and Spitfire IX in level flight.
That is according to the Allied technical inspectors, who tested it.
Does that vary by altitude? I know the mustangs were faster at high altitudes due to the supercharger system
@@elliottsmith8268 The 205 had decent supercharging. Only at its limits, did the Mustang have a slight edge.
Italy had many excellent designs, from planes to guns to specialized equipment. Their problem is that they lack natural resources for real industry and are more of an artisan society. Totally unsuited to world war. Germany itself was just a few steps above Italy and it's amazing they held out as long as they did after declaring war on the planet 😂
Italy’s problems in WW2 can be summarised as Benito Mussolini and Fascist government.
Fascism is essentially rebranded feudalism.
If germany declared war on the planet then they won.
They lost when they declared war on RUSSIA
if anybody declared war on the world it was definitely japan.
The Beretta submachine guns could hold their own with any designs of other nations.
@@MichaelJones-rn2pq The problem with the entire Italian government was who was in charge… Government by nepotism, not what you know but who you know.
Russia today has exactly the same thing going on (so much that Putin is very much a Fascist in the Italian sense with some the nationalist overtones of the Nazi’s (“if you speak Russian you should be governed by Moscow”).
They had a couple of designs that were almost good enough....
A rather cruel but overall precise statement of italian leadership. At 28.33 the video shows how we were managed...that pic shows volumes!!! Thank you IHYLS for this good vid! Hadn't we be governed by such people, we would have a better chance; but hadn't we be governed by such people we wouldn't have undertaken such a foolish war! Just a little clarification: Macchi is pronounced more like Makki.
Italian fighters, especially the 5 series are some of the prettiest planes of ww2 and do well in War Thunder
Yep. Too bad they keep raising the BR on all of them. =( They are my favorite prop fighters in the game.
@@ninjalanternshark1508 Still if you don't die in stupid head-on C.202s and C.205s can often get 2-3 kills
Thanks for covering more Italian aircraft.
I hope we get into Savoia-Marchetti and Reggiane in the near future.
A unique airplane. Really enjoyed the video.
It's very interesting given the Italian futurist movement in the first half of the 20th century; how they focused so much on racing and fighting and machines and yet were mostly a failure in all categories during the war
That is exactly what I was thinking. The final version even reminds me of a formula 1 car of the 50s. Also, not related to the planes but more to the poorly led part, their soldiers in North Africa were no fools, they didn't want to die for Mussolini so they would surrender to the Brits en mass, prompting Hitler to get into the fight to save his idol. But there seemed to be no lack of leadership in their underground, they did well as an ally of the Grand Alliance and there were reports that they did well serving with the Allies in Italy in WW2 after the King kicked Mussolini out and surrendered, then joined with the Allies. My father in law was a boy Blackshirt and the things he was doing with them prompted his mother to smuggle him and his brother out of Italy to come to America. He was a terrible person because he had loved being a black shirt and beating people up (kids) and when he got to New Orelans he joined the Sicilian Mafia under Carlos Marcelo, and forced my wife when she was a girl to shoplift, steal cars, etc, so she wanted out because she knew it was wrong. So when I met her she was looking for a way out and I was perhaps the most straight, clean guy she ever met. As we progressed and I learned of her wanting out, I had to make sure that she loved me for me and not just as a ticket out, so we dated 2.5 years and were married for 39.5 years until she passed away five years ago. For the first 25 years, I did everthing I could to keep them away from her. Her two older brothers were mafai too, they both moved to Maui and the younger was the big distributor who never used violence but could convince cops, etc, to take money to leave him alone. Finally, he was so successful and had begun taking care of their mother who was wealthy, so the older brother and another man went to the secure compound and murdered the younger brother and a woman who visiting, but left my mother in law alone. As to money and being inept at the drug and prostitution business it all fell apart soon, but he still had control of his mother's money which he went through in about a year. I was at my father in law's funeral in New Orleans, only to support my wife, and the night before, in front of me, the older brother's son approached the dead son's daughter and said "I want to say I am sorry that my father murdered your brother." Well, the Maui police would not do anything about it, I guess they were scared that if they investigated, they would be discovered as being on the take from the dead brother. I blame Mussolini for what he turned my father in law into at a young age, and how it passed down through another generation.
These fighter planes remind me of an ex-bf who hailed from Torino: made in Italy; sexy; temperamental; high-maintenance; smoked.
But presumably he was lovely.
NICE! LOL
Great video. Thank you for putting this together. The C202 Folgore (Lightning) seemed like a great plane!!
I am 100% Italian blood and decided to look into their air power of WWII. I love the tan desert camo!
It could have been worse. The Japanese Army flew the Nakajima Ki-43 with a top speed of 310, and armed with two 7.7mm machine guns for most of the war.
Well to be fair the ki-43 also saw a lot of development including added armor self sealing fuel tanks 2 12.7mm machine guns and later even 2 20mm cannons and was capable of carrying even two 550 pound bombs plus a drop tank in later configurations but the earlier version was pretty lackluster for sure despite its excellent handling
It's top speed would be increased over time and the Hayabusa itself would be superceded by the Shoki and Hien firstly, then by the Hayate.
You mean 7.7mm. They upgraded those pretty fast to a pair of 12.7s though, and the Ki-44 was around in decent numbers as well.
Don't sell the Ki-43 short, some top US aces were shot down by them.
The Japanese 12.7mm was fucked
Excellent stuff bro
Very well done!!
Coolest uniforms of the war.
Italy was a lot of bad things in WW2. But it has to be said that they produced some truly excellent fighter aircraft. And another place they interestingly excelled in was naval design. Biggest downside to all of this was a simple lack of a large enough industrial base, and as you mention in the beginning of the video, poorly designed tanks and infantry implements.
why are you surprised the Italians had good fighters? Who exactly do you think won most of the Schneider triophies after the UK?
I love the mc.205 but i personally think the fiat g55/56 are the top of my Italian fighter list and the reggiane 2005 is on there somewhere to heres hoping you get to cover both of those as well id be interested in seeing a comparison of all three of italys best if you ever get around to it
Yes, it's nice but it's seen the least upgrades compared to earlier model out of the 3 Series 5 aircraft being basically a 202 with a better engine and cannons.
Re 2005 took ages to build and was extremely expensive due to the semi elliptical wing.
And all that expense for no increase in performance...
@@reinbeers5322That comes when you produce by hand what is designed for automated production...
The Spitfire variant you showed isn't one that had eight .303 guns - you can see (one of) the two 20 mm cannon projecting from the wings, and there are four .303 guns in the wings as well.
I think Italian designs in aircraft were pretty good compared to most allied combat planes , those who tested captured Italian Fighters when they could keep them flying apparently they needed very special hydraulic fluid which was in limited supplies for using in Captured aircraft and allied fluids would not work.as for the Tanks and Armor yes Italy has a unique terrain with the country very mountainous terrain and the Colonial policing.
So that drove their Tank design.
I think at the onset of WW2 their Tank designs were on a similar footing to the British Armor and Tanks if you look at things like the Bren Gun carrier and Vickers infantry Tank and Valentine the tanks that the British started WW2 off with bar a few models were just as bad mostly badly built poorly armed and lacking for the type of war they were going to be fighting.
This had changed however by the time both met in the North African Desert once the British were forced to do a rethink and had to rearm because of leaving most of their equipment in Dunkirk after the evacuation.
the new tanks were still not perfect but compared to the dated Italian equipment they were far better.
So at the onset of WW2 most of the allied Tanks and to a degree their aircraft and equipment and tactics were mostly dated or not designed to counter the Germans new tactics and the quality of some of their more advance weapons.
The allies had the advantage of been supplied new equipment from the U.S and some excellent designs of their own and the means to produce them.
By the time Italy realised its equipment was lacking and it had dire supply issues thanks in no part to the British Navies strangle hold of its Mediterranean Sea routes of supplies. they were on the back foot playing catch up .
they did if fact build heavier Tanks though still behind the Tigers and Panthers both in the construction and performance and far to late to see any action. Italy was always going to be a weaker partner compared to the Germans and just like in the WW1 Germany had to send forces that it could ill afford to bailout its Allies . last time it was Austria, Hungry in WW1 and in WW2 Italy.
It is not that Italians did not fight poorly they fought well but with what they had to fight with it was only going to end in losing.
My Grandad was a Vet of both the BEF in 1939 to 1940 in Europe and then after Dunkirk and the Battle of Britain He was sent to North Africa and then invasion of Italy. fighting in the ground war in Artillery and Scouting combat. he had lots of respect for both the Italian armies and the German armies especially in their dogged defensive fighting in mainland Italy.
Considering how touch and go the italian foray into ethiopia was, the alarm bells should have been ringing loud and clear at latest in 1937.
Great Story on the C-202 and C-205... Well done ...
I know of a couple of these survive in Museums.... but.......
Is there any examples of one of theses surviving and still Flying in Europe.... ??
In the 80ies we had a C205 restored to flying conditions and it was displayed around but it suffered an accident while taxiing and was grounded to preserve it. It is now on display at the Museum for Science and Technique in Milan. Another not airworthy example is displayed at tbe Italian Air Force Museum in Vigna Di Valle on the Bracciano Lake near Rome.
I use to love flying this in AcesHigh 3
A smaller problem was to build an airplane, a much bigger one was to equip it with an engine. Only a couple of engines (DB and RR) at that time brought superiority. When German engines became available to the Italians, the quality of Italian planes increased sharply.
I would disagree with you on some Italian weapons especially their small arms. The standard Carcano M1891 bolt action rifle was a decent combat rifle for the time same with their service pistols the Beretta M1934 / M1935. The Italian Beretta M38 submachine gun was a favorite of both Italian and German soldiers being able to shoot the common 9mm Luger cartridge from a 30 or 40 round stick magazines. Italy did have some very good anti tank guns too and armored cars.
The Carcano rifles (all models), Beretta Model 34 pistol, amd Beretta Model 38 SMG were all quite excellent. I would say the Beretta 38 is a strong contender for best SMG if one discounts productivity (the Soviet PPS43 wins there, just because it was as good as most SMGs of the period, but as cheap as a Sten to make... if I was selecting guns without regard to equipping an entire army, I'd pick the Beretta - but if I was the procurement officer for that army, I'd pick the PPS43).
Most other Italian small arms (including the grenade launchers they bodged onto an otherwise excellent Carcano) were dogs.
@@geodkyt the PPS43 was okay mostly because it had a duel feed magazine and I do love the 7.62x 25mm cartridge but I would rather have a MP40 or Beretta M38 because I really like 9mm Luger more. The Germans actually loaded their 9mm ammo hotter than what we have today. Also I feel like quality would be alot better too. To be honest I would take any submachine gun over a M1A1 Thompson mostly because of the damn weight of the thing.
2:14 my grandfather did fight against Italians in North Africa, and he did feel sorry for them. The Germans in Greece and on Crete, not so much.
Rommel said that Italian troops were as brave as any other. Italy's generals were usually poor because they got their positions not from ability but through their "connections." Also, at the divisional level, Italy had far fewer nco's that Germany. Italy should've licensed more German designs light the MG 34 and 42, for instance. I'd like to learn about Italian war aces.
It's pronounced "Alfa Rome-A-O"!!
2:30 min: YAY! Ed, Edd & Eddie! Used to watch them together with the kids.
The Italians must have hired all of Alpha Romeo's car designers to design their fighters.
Every Italian designer that don't work for Caproni have great style sense
I wish creators used Forvo to learn pronunciation of names, before stumbling over them dozens of times.
In Italy, the awarding of aerial kills was based on the "word" of the pilot if he was an officer.
A non-commissioned officer needed testimonies... The true italian ace was Luigi Gorrini, a non-commissioned officer..
Gorrini, ( The only italian pilot to be accepted in the International Fighter Pilots Association ), also said that Spitfire IX And P-51 were superiors, as the P-47 was superior in high altitudes..
Italy actually had surprisingly great equipment in WW2, especially their small arms and aircraft - they just didn’t have enough of them! That Breda LMG is pretty much the only bad small arm they had, the rest were mostly devent or great like the SMGs they produced. Their aircraft were arguably some of the best or perhaps even the best of the war, but the numbers were insignificant and produced a bit too late. Their tanks weren't as bad as usually thought of as they were mainly used against infantry, but not great.
And No, its not the French. I lost it! ROFL! I had to rewatch the next 2 minutes of the video. The family cat thought I had gone off the deep end I was laughing so hard!
We hear a lot about the Rolls Royce Merlin engine and what a pivotal role it played in WW2, but it does seem to me that the Daimler Benz 601 was at least as good if not better than the Merlin and was the engine of choice in many aircraft built in Germany and other axis couintries.
If you know a bit of engines in general, I suggest you to read "The secret horsepower race" by Callum E. Douglas. It goes in depth about British, Germans, Americans and Italian engines, it also shows original documentations and components.
Have a nice day
The Merlin was used in so any different planes, but the DB 600 series was almost exclusivly used in fidhters. And it displaced a lot more, Merlin 27 litre, DB up to 36litre. Both types was exelent mashines, and had their strenghs and weaknesses.
One majorr thing that handicapped the DB engine was the specification for the propeller cannon which prevented the rational placement of a big enough compressor behind the engine, having to rely on a comparatively small one placed sideways.
Good warships, too. And food.
C.205s were so sexy
The only problem what was you needed to dismountle the engine to reload the aircraft, but it looked good.
Italy had plenty good. The C.200 & C.202 before this, the SM.79 medium bomber, the MAB 38 submachine gun, most of the naval vessels, the G.50 & g.55 fighters, the Re.2001 & Re.2005 fighters, etc.
They just didn't have a competent air ministry and an aerospace industry that was small and backward in its production methods.
29:50 yeah, that's one of the only high points of upper respiratory sickness, being able to use different octaves
the "e" at the end of Folgore is pronounced. Fol-gor-a (for an english speaker)
but they look so cool
Well, dont forget that the British Supermarine Spitfire and German Messerschmidt Bf 109 at the beginning of WWII were o u t s t a n d i n g machines. Hurricanes and US Curtiss fighters were ahead of its time but not outstanding. Even a few years earlier, at the beginning of the Spanish Civil War the Soviet Il 16 „Rata“ was a revolutionary concept. The Japanese Misubishi „Zero“ had some decisive weaknesses, but was surely on par with Hurricanes and Warhawks and outclassed the American Wildcat at the beginning of the war in the Pacific. Italy‘s Macchi 200 and Fiat G 50 were good enough to fight Soviet Il 16s in the Winter War and British Gladiator doubledeckers in the desert. Only with license built Daimler Benz engines Macchi 202 Folgore and later MC 205 Veltro could compete with Spitfires Mark V (but hardly Mark IX) and the American P-38 Lightning, P-47 Thunderbolt, let alone the formidable P-51 Mustang. Italien Industry lacked strong engines and machine guns at that time. So, Italien fighters, underpowered and underarmed as they were, were more than competitive as long as manoveurability - what made a superb WWI doubledecker - was ruling the game, say up to 1940 when Spitfires and Bf 109s took over by s p e e d and heavy armament. But Italian pilots were flying a r t i s t s, loved their older Fiat doubledeckers and even in 1941 refused to operate in closed canopies!
"So fate decided that Italy couldn't have nice things"
Why did the Italians drag their feet so much with the production of inline engines? They had years to convert from radial to inline, and in an ongoing total war, every single day counts in terms of arms development and production
The engine designs where license from the British, later from the Germans. Own designs where problematic,both with piston performance and propeller alignment issues.
@@xmaniac99according to the video, they first imported whole engines from Germany, then later just imported the parts and assembled the engines in Italy. Why not fully build the engines under license, just like the Japanese did with some German designs, not to speak of the wild licensing among the US, Brits and Russians?
@@MattnessLP There are entire academic papers published around this topic. It is complicated. Both Fiat and Alfa Romeo did have propriatary designs but they where underpowered and suffered from unreliability and criticl component failures, hence the OEM/licencing agreements. The video is not complete and fails to mentions that the AR AlfaSud plant in Pomigliano was the most effective producer of DB power plants, even more efficient than the German plans. If you will search for the history of AlfaSud during WW2 you will find the German research papers on this subject. Like I said, it is complicated.
We did develop inline engines for a long time, then mid of the 30ies, the Regia Aeronautica (as many other air forces in the world) switched to radial engines, where we had no experience and were boud to foreign licences. This choice was due out of very rational reasons: sturdiness, easy maintenance, cost, wheight... consider that it is the radial engine that won the war: the majority of planes fighting that war used radial engines, including the best fighters: Zero, Hellcat, Wildcat, P47, Corsair, FW190... Liquid cooled in line engine the likes of Merlin, Packard or Daimler were doomed to extintion anyway while the radial engine survived well into the jet and turboprop age.
@@MattnessLPNo at the end they produced the whole thing, kommandogerät included IIRC. They even modified some parts to better suit production processes and increase reliability (they used bushings instead of bearings for the connecting rods, for example, if memory serves me well)
If pilot claims from WWII were actually true, every plane in every airforce would have been shot down many times over ... from Wiki on the Battle of Pantelleria ...
"The Italian pilots claimed 15 victories (one by Maresciallo Baschirotto, who fired 500 rounds), with 14 Spitfires downed in the sea and another over African soil.
However, another analysis of this combat shows that the Regia Aeronautica pilots claimed a total of 17 aircraft on 20 April and claimed to have downed 15 Spitfires in this engagement; although Italian ground observers claimed to have seen 14 aircraft crash into the sea or onto land, only one Spitfire, flown by Flg Off Drecki of 145 Sqn, was heavily damaged. In return, three C.205Vs were lost.
Allied records report only two C.205Vs downed (Tenenti Andreoli and Fanelli), while another made an emergency landing near Cap Bon, and explains why some sources quote two losses and others three, but there is some doubt as to whether this aircraft, the only one to touch down on African soil, was a Veltro or a Folgore. At least one other Macchi was damaged, and the pilot wounded. Similarly, the Italian claims did not match any losses recorded in Allied squadron reports."
The Italian military was excellent, they were let down by their leadership and equipment. In north Africa when lead by German officers they performed well
As a french I ve suffered from this introduction ahah
Fiat g56 was the peak of italian aviation technology
Macchi is pronounced “makki”:
“c+h” in italian is always a “k” sound (double k in this case)
Italian military: am I a joke to you?!
Everyone: well, yeah...
I wouldn't know how good they were but I always thought the Reggiane Re.2005 Sagittario at least looked good sitting on the airfield.
Japan also bought licenses for the single stage supercharged variant of the Diamler Benz 601 and was built by Kawasaki for their Ki 61 "Tony" fighter and Aichi for the Yokosuka D4Y "Judy" Dive bomber. Those were the only operational Japanese aircraft that used the motor.
..
Attrition from 1937 on had taken much of Japan's skilled workforce for the draft including machinists capable of holding tolerance on the journals of the long V12 crankshaft leaving about half the power-plants from both companies culled before being installed..
.
Nakajima cancelled their plans for their Ki 62, 63 and 64 projects that were to use some variant of the motor. Both the operational aforementioned Kawasaki and Yokosuka air-frames wound up getting fitted with the tried and true Mitsubishi Kensai Radial after B29 raids put both factories producing the DB 601 out of their misery. Both air-frames were the better for the swap in relative peak performance in climbing and maneuverability anyway as the Kensai was lighter and developed to a better output in power than the liquid cooled variant as built by then. The Kawasaki was re-designated as "Ki 100"..
17:00 Maybe they couldn't see each other's hand gestures thru the radio.
"No marked decreased in maneuverability?" With that heavy liquid cooled engine hanging way out front?
This airplane was on display for many years at the Smithsonian Air and Space museum in D.C. Beautiful. Part of the problem was the corruption ,typical in a fascist system. The best designs were not built, it was about who had influence with Mussolini. Too little too late to catch up.
1:49 Those aren't Italian troops.
Those are Dutch marines stationed in what was then the Dutch East Indies. They where given captured Breda 30 LMGs to supplement their equipment.
Some of those units liked those so much, that when the Japanese invaded, they left those at barracks and opted for bolt action rifles. 😅
Just a question: did Dutch marines removed the Royal cipher from their helmets? You can see where that cipher was on the helmets.
I suspected those are Romanian soldiers. They also wore Dutch patter helmets, and prewar Royal cipher was removed by Decree after September 1940.
@@CipiRipi-in7df These where KNIL Marines. They only had an anchor painted on their helmets. 🙂
@@DanielWW2 ...thanks. :)
Alfa ro-MAY-oh
When in Italian a consonant is followed by a H the sound of the syllable is hard. To be clearer, Macchi you should read as "Makki", not like you did.
How they were even able to fight at all on a diet of spaghetti with tomato sauce.....is quite impressive in itself.....lol.....
Their light tanks were well designed for what they were meant to do, which was fight in the mountainous regions on their borders as well as the African deserts that they intended to colonize
Did any country ever experiment with automatic shotguns instead of machine guns?
Arguably japan, with a slow moving 30mm. Not great though.
Sounds like you're taking a dump with the other voice. Glad you're back.
Is this an AI narrator? The pronunciation grates.
Germans rated a fiat fighter highly but said instrument standard configuration and no high production made it a dead end as a weapon to count on .
Amsterdam,
My English father in law ( Africa vet )
Said there were 3 reverse speeds and one forwards in their tanks gearbox
Claimed kills over Malta of 100 shot down spitfires and hurricanes against a loss of just 17 fighters is exactly that… Claims ..not actual kills
well the then reality is that when Mossolini decided that Faschism and WWII was what they are gonna be heading, a good portion of the entire Italy nation wasn't exactly enthusiastic about that concience, they kinda just be there becasue they were order to, in fact they fought more enhtusiastically when they are getting rid of Mossolini
Ro-may-o. IHYLS!😅
Great video !
But as proven, speed and climb rate were more important than maneuverability. If this wasn't the case, the Regia Aeronautica would have gained air superiority in Africa early on. Or Polikarpov fighters would have kicked the Luftwaffe out of the Russian sky. Thus Saetta was inferior to its counterparts like P-40 and Hurricane; being 50-60 km/h slower might not sound much but in WW2 terms this meant they were worlds apart.
C200, 202 and 205 were best in class for climb rate and also for resistance in a dive (provided you entered the dive properly trimmed)
Alfo who?
Right pronunciation is “Makki”
On the ground Italy had two formidabile Fire weapons:the MAB38. and the BREDA 37 mainly....even germans used these Fire arms After Italy s quit and the were very glad to have them
Only thing that mars this podcast , is grating voice of the narrator .
Looked like the BF109
Ok it’s pronounced Alfa Row-Mayo, just sayin. Nice presentation tho!!
I should be pronounced Ma-Kk-i, not MaCHi...
To me it very much looks like a M-109.
Not surprising , considering those engines.
What are Macci?😂
Can’t really read any of the text, it was up on screen for half a second
I believe Macchi is pronounced "mock-key."
The content is great but the pronunciation is giving me a stroke.
The 202 is pronounced Fol-Gor-AY, and it’s Alpha Ro-MAY-O.
Very interesting video. I learned something. You sounded terrible, like a Klingon with a cold.
Italy was all but deficient in navy matters
Italy had a lot of things good in WW2 and didn't do so bad like English propaganda speaks .Read this :
LET'S BE OBJECTIVE!! The main military powers that fought for years in WW2 were six :On one side Germany ,Italy and Japan .On the other side USA ,Russia,UK .That's it .Italy fought on two continents and four seas with 3.400.000 men (considering army ,navy ,aviation ,auxiliaries).Let's see some points:
1)First of all this video doesn't explain that before the ww2 Italy had two war campaignes in Ethiopia(1935-1936) and Spain civil war(1936-1939) and used a lot of resources to fight and finish those campaignes, for this reason wasn't ready in 1940.
2) REGIA MARINA:The Italian fleet was the fourth in the world in 1940, it had the same tonnage of navy like France .The Littorio Class was the backbone of the navy with the 3 huge battleships: Littorio ,Vittorio Veneto and Roma(in 1940 they were considered the most powerful battleships in the world like artillery.). The Regia Marina had very great successes with submarines ,they fought in fourth different seas:Mediterranean Sea, in the Red Sea,in the Persian Gulf and in the Atlantic Ocean. ,with 1750 missions and the sinking of 132 merchant ships and 18 military ships,Italy lost 128 submarines of the totaly 172.The X Mas ,was a special unit of assault and raid of the Regia Marina ,with great success of sinking to the Royal Navy.
3)REGIA AERONAUTICA:The Italian Air Force had in 1940: 1300 medium bomber ,1160 fighter aircaftt, 500 recoinassence aircraft .It had very good warfighters like Macchi 202 and Macchi 205,Fiat G 55 and the Reggiane RE 2005 (maybe the most beautiful airplane of the WW2) .Italy built from (1940 to 1943) 11508 airplanes(always less in comparison with the othern nations). Only the fourth squadron destroyed 585 airplanes plus 215 probably .The SM 79 was an amazing medium bomber ,very effcient as torpedo bomber ,infact sinked a lot of military ships (Fearless ,Bedouin ,Nestor ,Foresight,Pozarica ecc).The sum of the official ranking of the(only) flying aces is of 1225 shooting down aircrafts.(The highest is Franco Lucchini with 26).
4)REGIO ESERCITO AND SPECIAL FORCES The Italian Army fought in Russia,Yugoslavia,Greece,North Africa ,and South -East Africa with 1.800000 soldiers in 75 divisions(not all well-equipped). Very good were the machine guns Breda 30 and 36, the mortar 81mm, Beretta 38 submachine .Italy built very good armoured cars like the autoblinda 40 and 41 and the SPA Viberti AS 42 ,and only the the tank 105/25 m43.The Special forces like Folgore ,Bersaglieri ,Alpini ,The X Mas ecc were very combative .The Folgore fought in North Africa for 3 years stopping the best English troops.
5)VICTORIES AND HEROIC BATTLE:
- El Alamein in the 1942
-The last charge of Izbusenskij of the cavalry Savoy in Croazia in the 1942
- The sinking of the Queen Elizabeth and Valiant by the X Mas in the 1941
-Pantelleria air-naval battle with the sinking of the Burdwan ,Chan and Kentucky and the damage of many others in the 1942
-The battle of August 1942 with the sinking of Manchester ,Cairo and the damage of Nigeria ,Kenya ,Brisbane ecc
-The sinking of York and Pericles in the Sudan Bay by the X Mas 1941
- Italian conquest of British Somalia - 1940
-Italian conquest of Cassala,Gallabat and Kurmuk (British-Egypt Sudan)1940;
So there are a lot of victories of Italy in ww2(i have wrote only some) ,but Italy lost the war and the winners write the history for this reason there are a lot of fake videos like this .For sure Italy wasn't so bad, but don't worry you can read books(as "Courage Alone" of Chris Dunning) and check on internet .And don't forget ITALY was the first nation to use airplanes in combat in Libia in 1911 and to built the first jet plane Campini Caproni without propeller. Also did a lot of world air records in the 30s .Bye
It looks like they imported more than just the DB engine. A more fitting model for this is the C 109 Nice program and history. Italy does design sexy...well...everything
The Italian pronunciation is MAKKI.
it's pronounced MAKKI, mate
This is Greggs.
All the Alpha Romeo fans are freaking out about your pronunciation right now. lol
Alfa!