"Sea Wolf" is the literal translation of the Welsh word for "shark," more specifically sharks dangerous to humans. Welsh native sharks are not dangerous to humans and were called "morgi" or "sea dog," but when Welsh sailors plied the waves of other oceans under the command of the British Empire, they encountered large, aggressive sharks that absolutely did not mind adding human meat to their diet. These they called "morfil" or "morflaidd," literally "sea wolf."
Consolidated TBY Anchovie..... excellent. As you know, here in the UK some of our planes were named after towns. Thankfully no Supermarine Slough PR.VIII.
Besides Being wider than the Avenger when the wings were folded, The Avenger (and Hellcat) had an additional benefit from their folding wings-height. The wings never required any higher space than the plane with wings extended. Conventionally folding wings extended upwards quite a bit and required that any hangar or overhang be much higher for it to fit beneath.
@16:05 the guy on the poster there is doing the "V" for victory hand sign backwards, which actually means "up yours" in many countries around the world. It's kind of funny seeing him all smiling and happy while flashing this very vulgar hand gesture.
@@AfricanPirateTreasure This story may be apocryphal, but there is a theory that the gesture dates to the battle of Agincourt. Archers were the mainstay of the English army at the time, and had a fearsome reputation. In the run up to the battle, the French taunted the English by saying that they would sneak into the English camp at night and cut off the archers' index and middle fingers, leaving them unable to ever use a bow again. On the day of the battle, the archers allegedly all raised their 2 fingers at the approaching French as if to say "**** you, we're armed and dangerous!" They proved to be very dangerous indeed, as the overconfident French and their allies promptly got shishkebabbed en masse by a hailstorm of English arrows! The French defeat was so thorough that it shocked most of Europe, and became euphemistically known in France as "The Unfortunate Day." Evidence for this theory is a bit sketchy tbh, but it still makes for a good story.
@@ThorstenKreutzenberger he did it both ways as I recall it. The whole thing originates from medieval times (as i recall) where the French would capture English archers and cut off the two fingers they use to draw the bow string. As a result, the English would hold up those two fingers as a way of saying "yeah you didn't get these two" and it stuck as a general insult ever since then.
I live near the Allentown area, and even though I’m not native to the area, the history/aviation buff in me is fascinated my new home’s connection to this plane. There is a ‘Vultee St’ near the old plant, and Convair Field is now called Queen City Airport, though I’m not sure when that renaming took place. I already knew a lot of what the video presented, but I did learn some things, and it was well done.
11:25 But, hey. No big deal. Some heavy duty duck/duct tape, some baling wire, and a little rebar - good as new. "Okay, Boys! Got 'er all fixed up! Who's up for the next carrier landing of this beaut?!?"
Excellent education and very articulate as always. Much appreciated. Indeed a flying greenhouse. Your mirror stone is still fine, it morphed into "powdered window" and I've heard that it's one of the precursors' to mirror, glass along with many other inedible products.
Another advantage of the wing folding system of the Avenger was that the aircraft with folded wings was lower, reducing the required height of the hangar. While not a problem for the large Essex class carriers being considered, for the smaller carriers, especially the escort carriers, this meant a smaller, lower hangar would be required.
Great video, love your humour & totally agree with your conclusion. Even if it hadn't suffered all the mishaps, by the time the Sea Wolf would have entered service, the bugs had, largely, been ironed out on the already plentiful Avenger. It's performance advantages over the Avenger were not so great for it to be regarded a viable replacement, while its greater stowage requirements would have meant fewer could be deployed on carriers (especially British ones), negating that marginal performance advantage. The wonder is why it simply wasn't cancelled, especially as multi-role aircraft were coming into vogue & jets were on the horizon.
This is a cool aircraft. You did a excellent job on it but you forgot one major obstacle. When consolidated started to make the new factory. All the construction workers/unions went on strike for four months and other month of slowed work. It got so bad that the government almost had to send in troops to get the workers back to work. All total the Sea Wolf lost a minimum of 6 months in just that alone. Silly
The Sea Wolf (both the aircraft and the submarine USS Seawolf) was named for the wolf fish, not some weird Canadian canid!! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarhichadidae
Corsair was relegated to shore duty in the US due to difficulties pilots had landing it. The British developed a "circular" landing approach to the carrier, and they used it as a carrier based plane when the US wouldn't/couldn't. Once the US Marines/Navy followed the same basic procedures they allowed it to be used as a carrier based fighter as well (Of course changing the procedure slightly, as they hated being shown how to do anything by anyone not 'Murican)
@@iffracem actually an early 1943 several American swatters with coursers qualified for landing on the carriers. The reason they didn’t continue with that was the Grumman hellcat was a better care, care, aircraft, and every respect and superior to its competition with the enemy. So I know everybody thinks it’s true, but it’s not the British figured out how to lay in the corsair we already had done it like a year prior it only made sense for us to add the course back onto the carriers at around the time the British were using it, because the comic causing threat had increased and advantage the course they did have over the hellcat was a slightly higher climb rate, it was put on carriers to be a kamikaze interceptor
The SB2C was a dog that only arrived in widescale service due to a better production facilities arrangement and if that had faltered the Seawolf could have taken up that slack with some restressing for dive bomber employment. I agree with the comment that Bell could have built the TBU, and a "pool" could have also been arranged.
There was an aircraft plant in Nashville operated by Vultee making the out-of-date A-35 Vultee Vengeance. If that had been allocated to build the TBY by early 1943, production aircraft could have been coming off the line in the fall of 1943. Then the aircraft could have been worked up to squadron level by the spring of 1944 with combat debut in the summer of 1944.
I wonder how the Sea Wolf would have performed in some of the post-war roles the Avenger took on? The ASW roles for the military and the fire-bomber role in civilian use.
To be fair regarding the Douglas TBD Devastator, while certainly obsolete by 1942, the appalling losses at Midway were the result of absolutely no fighter protection. Even the few available TBF Avengers did no better. Other than that, this is a great video.
@@scootergeorge7089 better coordination of airstrike. Still it's a significant problem. The bombers and Fighters have different fuel loads. Launching the Fighters first, they burn a lot of fuel waiting for the rest of the Air Group to take off. THEN you have to match the cruising speed of the slowest planes. All torpedo bombers as a general rule were vulnerable to attack. Which is why the type fell out of favor worldwide.
I wonder if it had gotten a sizable compliment into combat if foreign sales might have been its best avenue to success. The English and the French used Avengers during and after WW2. Maybe they would have opted for Sea Wolves.
18:29 - Soviet Russia only "joined the fold" on August 7th 1945, the day after Hiroshima, when it was obvious that Japan was defeated and Russia might lose out on the spoils if it didn't act.
The avenger was also Grumman product, and this all the tools and techniques to maintain it and service it we’re very similar to the wildcat and hellcat, and Grumman just made the best simplest planes. They might be slightly slower than some of the competition, or not quite climb, quite as fast, but they all were fantastic landing on the carrier safely even by relatively Novice pilots and they performed well enough but they got the job done
Hmm... the devastator? Sends to me was in its draw up phase remarkable and advanced for the time (1935) was none the obsolete coming off the assembly line
Aircraft were evolving so rapidly in the late 1930's that it was quite possible for an aircraft which was advanced to become obsolete in 2 years. The much superior Japanese B5N Kate first flew at about the time the Devastator entered production in 1937. In 1938 the Kate was flying in combat just one year after Devastator production started.
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"Sea Wolf" is the literal translation of the Welsh word for "shark," more specifically sharks dangerous to humans. Welsh native sharks are not dangerous to humans and were called "morgi" or "sea dog," but when Welsh sailors plied the waves of other oceans under the command of the British Empire, they encountered large, aggressive sharks that absolutely did not mind adding human meat to their diet. These they called "morfil" or "morflaidd," literally "sea wolf."
Consolidated TBY Anchovie..... excellent. As you know, here in the UK some of our planes were named after towns. Thankfully no Supermarine Slough PR.VIII.
Besides Being wider than the Avenger when the wings were folded, The Avenger (and Hellcat) had an additional benefit from their folding wings-height. The wings never required any higher space than the plane with wings extended. Conventionally folding wings extended upwards quite a bit and required that any hangar or overhang be much higher for it to fit beneath.
Agreed , they would not have fit into the Brits hangar deck . They shortened the wings on Corsairs so as to fit bellow main deck .
@16:05 the guy on the poster there is doing the "V" for victory hand sign backwards, which actually means "up yours" in many countries around the world. It's kind of funny seeing him all smiling and happy while flashing this very vulgar hand gesture.
Quite sure Winston Churchill used this kind of V-Finger a lot.
@@AfricanPirateTreasure This story may be apocryphal, but there is a theory that the gesture dates to the battle of Agincourt.
Archers were the mainstay of the English army at the time, and had a fearsome reputation. In the run up to the battle, the French taunted the English by saying that they would sneak into the English camp at night and cut off the archers' index and middle fingers, leaving them unable to ever use a bow again.
On the day of the battle, the archers allegedly all raised their 2 fingers at the approaching French as if to say "**** you, we're armed and dangerous!"
They proved to be very dangerous indeed, as the overconfident French and their allies promptly got shishkebabbed en masse by a hailstorm of English arrows! The French defeat was so thorough that it shocked most of Europe, and became euphemistically known in France as "The Unfortunate Day."
Evidence for this theory is a bit sketchy tbh, but it still makes for a good story.
The correlation was a bit intentional on Winston Churchill’s part…
@@ThorstenKreutzenberger he did it both ways as I recall it. The whole thing originates from medieval times (as i recall) where the French would capture English archers and cut off the two fingers they use to draw the bow string. As a result, the English would hold up those two fingers as a way of saying "yeah you didn't get these two" and it stuck as a general insult ever since then.
@@allangibson8494 I think so as well, and that's how it was described to me in school when we were studying WWII.
"I hear Captain America spoke up for the Grumman Avenger." "How come?" "Something to do with the name. He really liked it."
I live near the Allentown area, and even though I’m not native to the area, the history/aviation buff in me is fascinated my new home’s connection to this plane. There is a ‘Vultee St’ near the old plant, and Convair Field is now called Queen City Airport, though I’m not sure when that renaming took place. I already knew a lot of what the video presented, but I did learn some things, and it was well done.
11:25 But, hey. No big deal. Some heavy duty duck/duct tape, some baling wire, and a little rebar - good as new. "Okay, Boys! Got 'er all fixed up! Who's up for the next carrier landing of this beaut?!?"
Its amazing how fast aviation technology advanced back when there was actually competition in the market.
keep up the good videos , i really enjoy how u make these videos and your voice and wording, i really hope to see your channel to flourish.
Excellent education and very articulate as always. Much appreciated. Indeed a flying greenhouse.
Your mirror stone is still fine, it morphed into "powdered window" and I've heard that it's one of the precursors' to mirror, glass along with many other inedible products.
Yet another great video IHYLS! I always learn something right here
Another advantage of the wing folding system of the Avenger was that the aircraft with folded wings was lower, reducing the required height of the hangar.
While not a problem for the large Essex class carriers being considered, for the smaller carriers, especially the escort carriers, this meant a smaller, lower hangar would be required.
I'm a fan of how you did the intro for this one
Seawolf was an optimistic name
I think that the Blohm und Voss BV-141 would take the flying greenhouse title at a canter.
Curtiss SB2C Helldiver has a pretty good greenhouse too.
@lancerevell5979 Yes, it did,as did the vought kingfisher.
Amiot 140 and 143 called...
The Avro Anson was also described as a flying greenhouse.
And every other german aircraft of that time!
Great video, love your humour & totally agree with your conclusion. Even if it hadn't suffered all the mishaps, by the time the Sea Wolf would have entered service, the bugs had, largely, been ironed out on the already plentiful Avenger. It's performance advantages over the Avenger were not so great for it to be regarded a viable replacement, while its greater stowage requirements would have meant fewer could be deployed on carriers (especially British ones), negating that marginal performance advantage. The wonder is why it simply wasn't cancelled, especially as multi-role aircraft were coming into vogue & jets were on the horizon.
Doesn't matter how fast your plane goes when your friggin torpedo can't be launched above 115mph...
Aloha! Once again, terrific work on your part. Mahalo, and All Hail the Algorithm!
This is a cool aircraft. You did a excellent job on it but you forgot one major obstacle. When consolidated started to make the new factory. All the construction workers/unions went on strike for four months and other month of slowed work. It got so bad that the government almost had to send in troops to get the workers back to work. All total the Sea Wolf lost a minimum of 6 months in just that alone. Silly
We call them glasshouses in New Zealand.
The Sea Wolf (both the aircraft and the submarine USS Seawolf) was named for the wolf fish, not some weird Canadian canid!!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarhichadidae
Or a Jack London novel.
An alternate definition for seawolf is pirate or privateer. I honestly thought that versus the fish parallel
Exactly. And the 1941 film adaptation with Edward G Robinson would have been widely in mind while the prototype was under construction.
The size on deck would have relegated it to shore duty like the Corsair at the beginning
The size and the hanger deck also would have played a factor. A carrier could carry a few more Avengers because it was a more compact design.
Give it to the Marines...
Corsair was relegated to shore duty in the US due to difficulties pilots had landing it.
The British developed a "circular" landing approach to the carrier, and they used it as a carrier based plane when the US wouldn't/couldn't.
Once the US Marines/Navy followed the same basic procedures they allowed it to be used as a carrier based fighter as well (Of course changing the procedure slightly, as they hated being shown how to do anything by anyone not 'Murican)
@@iffracem actually an early 1943 several American swatters with coursers qualified for landing on the carriers. The reason they didn’t continue with that was the Grumman hellcat was a better care, care, aircraft, and every respect and superior to its competition with the enemy. So I know everybody thinks it’s true, but it’s not the British figured out how to lay in the corsair we already had done it like a year prior it only made sense for us to add the course back onto the carriers at around the time the British were using it, because the comic causing threat had increased and advantage the course they did have over the hellcat was a slightly higher climb rate, it was put on carriers to be a kamikaze interceptor
The SB2C was a dog that only arrived in widescale service due to a better production facilities arrangement and if that had faltered the Seawolf could have taken up that slack with some restressing for dive bomber employment. I agree with the comment that Bell could have built the TBU, and a "pool" could have also been arranged.
There was an aircraft plant in Nashville operated by Vultee making the out-of-date A-35 Vultee Vengeance. If that had been allocated to build the TBY by early 1943, production aircraft could have been coming off the line in the fall of 1943. Then the aircraft could have been worked up to squadron level by the spring of 1944 with combat debut in the summer of 1944.
Imagine being so excited about getting to fly a corsair, only to realize you got one made by Brewster. Sad.
Not to mention that later F6Fs could carry a similar payload including a torpedo....
I wonder how the Sea Wolf would have performed in some of the post-war roles the Avenger took on?
The ASW roles for the military and the fire-bomber role in civilian use.
"Okay, we can finally start production of the Sea Wolf! ... Wait -- WHAT DO YOU MEAN, THE WAR'S OVER?"
I don't think the name Anchovie would have flown, Otherwise, Nice video!!!
What was the plane about 3⁄4 of the way through with American markings and a bubble canopy and a nose that came to a point?
If they had called the Sea Wolf the Anchovy, then they could have called the Avenger the sardine because they could pack more into the hanger.
😂😂😂
Love it!
To be fair regarding the Douglas TBD Devastator, while certainly obsolete by 1942, the appalling losses at Midway were the result of absolutely no fighter protection. Even the few available TBF Avengers did no better. Other than that, this is a great video.
The biggest fault of the Devastator wasn’t the aircraft’s fault. American torpedoes it carried was crap
Kind of hard to escort a plane that slow.
@@Idahoguy10157 - That doesn't explain how an entire squadron was shot down in a single attack.
@@WALTERBROADDUS - They were not shot down at Coral Sea like they were at Midway.
@@scootergeorge7089 better coordination of airstrike. Still it's a significant problem. The bombers and Fighters have different fuel loads. Launching the Fighters first, they burn a lot of fuel waiting for the rest of the Air Group to take off. THEN you have to match the cruising speed of the slowest planes. All torpedo bombers as a general rule were vulnerable to attack. Which is why the type fell out of favor worldwide.
The grass is always greener on the other side of the...SeaWolf
Bell in buffallo could have made some the p40 was obsolete and they were looking for contracts.
"The Glasshouse" is where British Army defaulters are sent
How many aircraft failed because of disappointing engines?
With your Wasp and our Merlin they stood no chance.🇬🇧🇵🇳🇳🇿🇬🇷🇦🇺🇺🇸🇨🇦📚☘️
Aaa
Well said!
Godamn, it really is a carrier borne greenhouse
I wonder if the English would have bought any?
That's an excellent point! No more "Stringbags" for flack bait. The Royal Navy world have eaten them up.
When it comes to physical space, "just under" 6 is equal to 5.
I wonder if it had gotten a sizable compliment into combat if foreign sales might have been its best avenue to success. The English and the French used Avengers during and after WW2. Maybe they would have opted for Sea Wolves.
I think they could have put pontoons on it and use it like the Aichi 'Jake' floatplane.
plus, with the A-1 Skyraider and Martin Mauler, there were better torpedo planes coming.
17:48 what is that thing?
18:29 - Soviet Russia only "joined the fold" on August 7th 1945, the day after Hiroshima, when it was obvious that Japan was defeated and Russia might lose out on the spoils if it didn't act.
Good plane, but there was more need for F4U Corsairs
It was never going to beat the Avenger. The Avenger was a more compact design ,that was extremely important when hanger space is considered
The avenger was also Grumman product, and this all the tools and techniques to maintain it and service it we’re very similar to the wildcat and hellcat, and Grumman just made the best simplest planes. They might be slightly slower than some of the competition, or not quite climb, quite as fast, but they all were fantastic landing on the carrier safely even by relatively Novice pilots and they performed well enough but they got the job done
If anyone isn't clear how WW2 was won, 14:12 is the TLDR.
Hmm... the devastator? Sends to me was in its draw up phase remarkable and advanced for the time (1935) was none the obsolete coming off the assembly line
Aircraft were evolving so rapidly in the late 1930's that it was quite possible for an aircraft which was advanced to become obsolete in 2 years. The much superior Japanese B5N Kate first flew at about the time the Devastator entered production in 1937. In 1938 the Kate was flying in combat just one year after Devastator production started.
Hell yeah
Geesh.. This reminds me of my dating life...
That is one ugly airplane
Point of historical fact: Romans had clear(ish) window glass from around the third century AD (can't be in with this BCE nonsense...).
AD is comparable to C.E. Or the common era. It is superior in about every way.
A very unfortunate intro. First one has to suffer through 2 commercials and then yawn through your “clever “ introduction
Nah I liked the intro