@@justhit6673Well at least the game is over, getting 4 man slugged is embarrassing as is, just shows how bad that you guys are, but in an instance where you do get 4 man slugged it has to be boring after a couple times
I mean this applies to ever strategy in most cases. Unless you’re going for a win streak, most people aren’t playing the same build for dozens of games.
@@forthelolz1121 Yeah, but this build in particular feels like it would make me bored. When matches end too quickly it makes that game a bit boring for me. sometimes I'll intentionally give the survivors a freebee so they have another shot at beating me if I'm winning too fast
Went against this a couple of times, yeah at some point I prepared some tea for myself and by the time I came by my character finally died on the floor. Fantastic gameplay, good if you're dealing with insomnia.
I think theres 2 types of slugging Slugging for pressure, and slugging to be a dick Slugging for pressure is what you were doing here, even if this example is the most extreme it could be. Slugging to be a dick is self explanatory
No such thing slug, tunnel, camp, get all hooks, and Win, but if they do all that not to win but to just annoy survivors then that can be annoying but surv get annoyed any way and I laugh and be toxic to them if they teabag me click and whatnot
@@THE_HORSEYY you are the issue in the community, stop making shit us vs them, its childish. If you are actively trying to annoy the other players, you are a dick. Plain and simple.
I went against a guy who was slugging with singularity a couple days ago, using a similar build and the same brown addon, but had a different second addon, was aids but he didn't 4 man slug, he did slug to get a lot of hook stages though, so I guess he wasn't as bad
The solution to bleed out is giving the survivors the option to just bleed out fast if they choose to, so they die in like 10 seconds. Cuz getting rid of bleed out entirely is stupid since that is often part of the pressure a killer has when slugging, if the survivor doesnt bleed out, the survivors can just leave one slugged and do gens cuz he wont die anyway and unbreakable is certainly not the play, in high mmr it happens that one survivor isnt hooked until the very end of the match and if that guy gets unbreakable for no reason while the killer is searching for him to hook is just gonna be abyssmal. Slugging is a tool of pressure for the Killer and shouldnt be made worse, survivors should just have the option to escape being kept hostage when all are slugged. Which would be granting the ability to just completely bleed out instantly at like 50% bleed out timer or so
i don’t think BHVR wants giving up to be a mechanic in the game. Even self unhook attempts are meant to be a last ditch effort, not to die faster. Most they could or would do is when your recovery bar is max you can try to get up by yourself and have it work like self unhooks
@@crunchycakegaming1507 yeah i get that, but when all are slugged, no ubs in the game, then they should have the option to bleed out instantly, cuz at that point the bleed out function has no use. Giving survivors second chances on everything they do that can fuck up your whole game cuz of one gamble shouldnt be a thing imo
@@saikyue4462 there’s an issue with all forms of any anti-slug system they could implement. If you’re soloq you could have unbreakable but your teammate doesn’t know that and decides to give up. Even if you’re in a SWF it becomes an issue for the killer because the killer gets more bloodpoints for sacrifices and if the killer just got a snowball half his blood points from that game are gone. Even if the killer really is just slugging everyone and not hooking to waste everyone’s time it’s 4 minutes at most, less if you’ve been downed before. They could implement faster bleedout but instant bleedout is never coming to the game and should never come
Here’s something I posted as a comment but I’m gonna put it here as well because it’s relevant :) Heres something I wrote recently prompted by a Reddit post. My thoughts on an optional method of bleeding out faster to avoid wasting time on the ground. For starters, a feature to allow survivors to bleed out faster can ONLY apply when all survivors are in the dying or hooked states. It must be a LOST game if we’re implementing features for players to just leave, otherwise it faces the same issues as ragequit ‘solutions’ like removing the dc penalty. Like it or not, there are situations where it is detrimental to the killer to insta pick a survivor. The game shouldn’t punish killers (not in a strategic way, obviously if a survivor is dying faster that a positive for the killer, but in terms of gameplay, only a select few enjoy when their opponent gives up haha) for making a strategic choice based on survivor mistakes. That said, I know the issue everyone wants to focus on is heavy/consistent slugging and bleeding out as a time waster. One thing I think people have gotten correct, is that it should be a survivor choice. Not something that happens automatically when there are 4 slugs (because then it becomes a win con, making the issue worse, see mori finisher). Something of this sort should become usable when 4 survivors are incapacitated, be activated by the survivors, and still be slow enough to give teammates with second chance perks like Unbreakable enough time to turn the game around. As a sort of random side note, something I’ve been chewing on is the sort of hypocritical catch 22 we all sort of catch ourselves in when the killer is slugging. When the pettiness starts coming to the surface and we start crawling as far and as unpredictably from where we were downed. “If the killer is gonna waste my time, I’m gonna… get this! waste their (my) time.” It feels nice sometimes, but as a killer, sometimes a person just spends 4 minutes on the ground and you WANTED to find them so badly but nope, crawled away while I was hooking other people. So anyway, while I doubt this is something anyone would find agreeable enough to implement, I’ve thought about having a sort of basekit deerstalker that activates on the same conditions as the ‘bleed out faster’ ability. Just once everyone is incapacitated, here they are, feel free to hook them.
I don't think that this is toxic but it could be an unhealthy META, as taking agency/choice away from either side isn't great. Just like how the old Eruption/Call of Brine META wasn't toxic, but it was unhealthy because it took options away via the Incapacitated status effect. Same with some survivor METAs/stuff in the past that hasn't been overtly toxic, but was unhealthy. I think in moderation, slugging and even camping or tunneling, is fine as a strategic move, but putting all your eggs in one basket (all slug, hard tunnel, etc.) could be unhealthy for the game even if it isn't explicitly toxic/bm'ing.
I doubt they can do much about it considering how perks like flashbang BGP, dying on pallets, still exists. Adding base kit UB would be a huge nerf to the bottom half of the killer roster, while other killers like blight can easily shake it off as a minor setback.
Knock out is indeed climbing up in population and utility. All thanks to recent changes around hooks: Why should I expose myself to BT, DS, OTR, deli, anticamp, 70 hook stages for doing the objective while I can win with 4 good chases in a row via slugging
Surprisingly, when killers suddenly get wayyy less pressure from hooks (effectively 30s more gen time in total for the remaining survivors *every hook*, they go to different methods to get necessary pressure.
I mean Singularity is a snowball character so he kinda acts like oni where when he has the situation to find a quick down then he can and definitely should do it to get an upper hand
@@jaydenjayden3778I legit played against one who used the exact same build, was playing solo Q, luckily my teammates were really good and got a 3 man out but yeah it was not really intense
I’ve gone against this build many times on multiple killers and i’d say the most unbearable thing about it and worth disconnecting for is that if the killer is not good at ending chases quickly they will stretch the match for too long for like 40+ minutes. The game just feels like a healing simulator at that point
I think one of the main factors that makes it frustrating is the fact that it absolutely banks on solo-q. 4 mans and such can actually stand a chance and counter knock out, but theres not much soloq can do to counter knock out with no comms. I've gone against slug build wraiths and the night and day difference between when I'm playing with a 4 man or playing solo/with a duo is insane and just feels wrong asoefjaoifjs. Especially when soloq teammates can barely process game mechanics to begin with
The one time I got beat with a slugging/bleedout build, it was by a solo queue team who just used their brains to counter the strat. That being said, most solo queue players aren't very good but that's an issue with the players rather than the queue type.
Soloq players aren't worse then swfs. They just don't have comms. That's it. And since "full slugging" isn't that popular (thankfully) most people don't know about the usual go-to counters. Which are hard to pull off without comms... Facing a medium smart full slug killer as a 3-man swf was absolutly doable. The same in a team with 4 soloq players is almost hopeless. And yes, there are anti-slug perks. But I don't want to bring anti-slug, anti-camp and anti-tunnel perks just in case. Those are not exactly fun builds...
Yeah I totally agree. I would honestly just hook those two survivors in the first game and do light slugging with this build going for the 4 k slug or trying so hard for it is imo cringe and not very exciting maybe I am just hook coded
Oh wow! It's you! I found out you're a giant jerk! You bullied my girlfriend in end game chat and called her trash because she's a new player. Classy move.
I’m newish so I don’t have crazy knowledge on the whole situation. But they could make it so while in slug mode, you cannot bleed out, you can go down a hook stage and whatnot, but in order for them to die they will have to be hooked!
Admitedly the RPD game was kinda why killers shouldnt be so confortable with slugging, sure if you try to get it early sure but after a while they were literaly just bleeding out on the floor waiting and that sucks, as a killer main i understand the need for slugging but if you can get the game after a while go pick up so they can also play the game. As a killer main i know survivors dont forgive killers, like i know most survivors wont bat an eye if a killer get cero hooks in a game, but that said i still think that staying on the floor for so long cant be fun. At the end of the day is all about balance in the mentality of the players and hoping that everyone just want to have a fun game.
Idk if you do build suggestions but i had this one build for singularity that ive been trying to get to test out myself but its taking me ages to grind for it lol. The perks are game afoot, rapid brutality, furtive chase and friends till the end. Addons are the slower overclock stun penalty and the hinder survivor when tping or extended overclock mode. The idea is you hook the obsession then tp to the new obsession begin a chase and slipstream them and try to get “stunned” by a pallet to gain the speed boost from game afoot and hit the survivor to gain as much speed as possible without straying from normal singularity gameplay.
Also to combat bleed outs i would say remove the bleed out timer but give the option for survivors to dc if they want to if bled out for too long and replace themselves with a bot so the chance for a comeback is possible
I always use slug build but mine is different. First two perk same but deerstalker not necessarily. I use (I forgot the name) Singularity perk slows everyone around when down a survlvor. And fourth Fearmonger blinds survivors while repair gen Add ons (yellow add-on I forgot the name) Blinds survivors when 12m near a biopod. And any add-on make you someone easily take down. With this build survivors always blind. When down a survivor if someone around easy down if nobody around they can't know anything about where is the downed survivor. Even if near the downed survivor they can't see him aura if there is a biopod nearby. (You can put biopds around the downed survivor) Very very OP build. I didn't remember any game I lost.
I've only done it once as well and it was eyrie of crows. Boon exponential, UB, Flip Flop, Boil Over type builds on all of them. Of course they had flashlight sabo as well. I just said f it if ur gonna sweat im gonna sweat. That match was probably 30 minutes long if not longer.
I think first down unbreaks will just get countered by killers playing them to second and then slugging. Postpones but doesn't remove the issue ultimately. Unbreakable + Choice to Let Go after 2 minutes on the floor.
A choice to give up would be amazing considering how many killers slug for the 4k on the last two. I end up dcing because a killer is willing to leave me or someone else on the ground so no body can get hatch.
I think the solution to killers letting 4 survivors bleed out is to simply add time modifiers the more survivors are left on the ground. Takes 4 mins to bleed out right? So let's say if 2 are on the ground now the timer goes faster, 3 on the ground timer goes faster all 4 on the ground the timer goes faster. Significantly reduces the time that survivors have to wait to move on.
I think if they add basekit unbreakable it should be only active if the killer Leaves you on the ground for 30+ seconds but the time should pause if your team is near you like the unhook timer to make it fair
8:20 amazing point, both sides have what people think are “toxic” because the game is fundamentally flawed so if they actually overhaul the game then slugging can be removed
4:12 I 100% think its scummy holy **** my guy I hate playing against slug builds as survivor so much because it's so boring and the sad part is (at least for me not for you) bhvr endorses this playstyle :p
there should be a mechanic where if you have been bleeding out for too long that you can press a button to teleport onto a hook or something to counter bleeding out. I see the issues with this I am just making an idea. Maybe also a mechanic to give the killer you aura if your on the ground and they can't find you.
@@The_Scryer killers like Trapper wouldn't get much out of it since their slow but the typical top tiers with insane movement get a whole lot so i don't really know if implementing it base would be balanced
We had teleporting hooks for events, and ppl were mad about it. But it allowed the killer to put u on the hook faster and he didn't have to slug u to chase someone else but ppl cried about flash light saves etc so it was discontinued.
If I were to come up with a solution to slugging personally I'd make it so if you have been on the floor for half of the timer (2 minutes) you may pick yourself up. Because I think being on the floor for 2 minutes gives the killer enough time to deal with saves so if that's the reason they can't pick up it's fine
Would personally run sloppy instead of deerstalker on this as well as surge instead of infectious fright. Instead of the iri addon you could also run soma for more slowdown. Sloppy makes pickups slower which is huge and makes resetting slower; surge gives you passive free slowdown with 0 hook downtime needed. I found that slugging builds are so much more effective when u run perks to help with stalling the game. Perks like deerstalker are pointless, especially if you plan to hard slug since why do you care where the slugs are when you are not going to be hooking them anyway? Builds like I described are so nasty and I am glad people do not realise just how effective they can be.
I really enjoy running an exposed build on Singularity--Friends til the End, Make Your Choice, Starstruck and Surge for gen defense. I run the Nano Gel and the Soma Family Photo.
Personally. I would rather be slugged than hooked unless I’m stuck there for the entire bleedout. That’s fine. Slugging is also fine if you actually are willing to hook them. There is no real solution to slugging though. I think the BETTER question when it comes to tunneling and slugging is “why do killers do that?” Because THEN you can maybe fix the core issues.
It's really similar to a build I use! I added that singularity perk to slow down survs, so i slug and then i know where slowed survs are XD with jolt. The counter is spreading around all map, but it's quite fun (evil)
Holy new Coco video! Personally I think slugging isn't at all fun to play against however it is neccesary to create map pressure especially on Singularity, but I think doing it from the start with all 4 survivors is a bit overkill
After being left on the ground for a minute you can fully recovey from the dying state. This is a simple mechanic that will actually let the survivors play the game if left slugged for some time.
No shit, it's a bug with the lighting? I legit thought I was going schizo when I tp'd two days ago and my midwich turned into the abyss by dropping three or four color waves. Love you Coco, thank you for the content! :)
"Im not intentionally bleeding them out" while refusing to hook them is literally intentionally bleeding them out if the survivors are picking each other up
I've always thought it was a problem that Slipstream stays on slugs, but goes away on hooks, what does that tell the user? Either gone on down or only through EMP, this really shouldn't happen
Same with Freddy’s power. Hes punished for hooking fast by increasing tp cooldown, and his chase power is disabled. He’s better off slugging especially if you bring the pallet addons.
unbreakable at bleed out percentages should probley work fine. like at 50% or 25% bleed out it would dissuad alot of the slugging without impacting most killers and games.
Imo survivors should get basekit unbreakable only if all four survivors are in the downed state. This would prevent 4k slugfests and this play style would only work if you managed an early tunnel out which seems much more counterable.
In return we killers ask that touching the killer and all interactions with killer objects count as conspicuous. As well as the removal of the chase indicator on survivor side.
The only way this would be toxic is if you decide to not hook anybody and just leave em to die from bleed out. This is a strat that alot of ppl would consider being toxic but it's how the killer plays
I would personally make it so that if all currently living Survivors are downed/hooked, Survivors then unlock the ability to bleed out faster If games like in this video happens where it is clearly over, they can move on fast, whereas a close game could have Survivors stay in the game in hopes of a Kobe/Unbreakable/Etc Killers can no longer 4 man slug for 4 minutes
Base Kit Unbreakable until Gates are Powered. That way Unbreakable still has a use. Still only one use (Actually having the perk will still give you another use but again: Deactivated after use and can still be used in End Game) Viable Strat? Yeah, can be. Is it going to probably call for heavy nerfs to doing this? Well.... yeah. Especially on killers that can do this because they can teleport, ignore pallet stuns because of it, and still lock down a 3 Gen. It can make new players leave the game, not come back and hurt the player base because they'll think this is what every killer will do. Just like Face Camp Bubba. Or Inf-Tombstone Myers. Can it be considered Meta? Yes, it's VERY heavily Chase Oriented and gives you the edges you need against teams. I don't know if they'd take a look at changing the Killer or changing the way some mechanics work. As a Killer Main, this isn't what I'd consider Meta, I'd consider it poor sportsmanship because you're not getting full Hook Value, other side just can't play the game. Like you said: You're not going against Comp teams every game. At that point gauge the match. Are killers supposed to kill by every and any means? Sure. However I consider 3 Out 1 Survived to be a win to me, maybe BHVR doesn't but I can say from picking up Spirit for the first time yesterday and in 2 matches went from 6/12 hook states and no outs to get 3 out and let one get hatch with 11 hook states is a win to me. I didn't want the player who gave up to stop playing the game because it may have been their first game and to show them it's never over. Even when it's over, you could still come back.
Heres something I wrote recently prompted by a Reddit post. My thoughts on an optional method of bleeding out faster to avoid wasting time on the ground. For starters, a feature to allow survivors to bleed out faster can ONLY apply when all survivors are in the dying or hooked states. It must be a LOST game if we’re implementing features for players to just leave, otherwise it faces the same issues as ragequit ‘solutions’ like removing the dc penalty. Like it or not, there are situations where it is detrimental to the killer to insta pick a survivor. The game shouldn’t punish killers (not in a strategic way, obviously if a survivor is dying faster that a positive for the killer, but in terms of gameplay, only a select few enjoy when their opponent gives up haha) for making a strategic choice based on survivor mistakes. That said, I know the issue everyone wants to focus on is heavy/consistent slugging and bleeding out as a time waster. One thing I think people have gotten correct, is that it should be a survivor choice. Not something that happens automatically when there are 4 slugs (because then it becomes a win con, making the issue worse, see mori finisher). Something of this sort should become usable when 4 survivors are incapacitated, be activated by the survivors, and still be slow enough to give teammates with second chance perks like Unbreakable enough time to turn the game around. As a sort of random side note, something I’ve been chewing on is the sort of hypocritical catch 22 we all sort of catch ourselves in when the killer is slugging. When the pettiness starts coming to the surface and we start crawling as far and as unpredictably from where we were downed. “If the killer is gonna waste my time, I’m gonna… get this! waste their (my) time.” It feels nice sometimes, but as a killer, sometimes a person just spends 4 minutes on the ground and you WANTED to find them so badly but nope, crawled away while I was hooking other people. So anyway, while I doubt this is something anyone would find agreeable enough to implement, I’ve thought about having a sort of basekit deerstalker that activates on the same conditions as the ‘bleed out faster’ ability. Just once everyone is incapacitated, here they are, feel free to hook them.
It’s even better when you use jolt, don’t ask how I know… Edit: also slugging is very nice to build into, as you completely avoid 2nd chance perks like dead hard, decisive, off the rec, deli, etc…
this could potentially be more fun than old 3 gen hux, at least as strong, which means it'll garbage once survivors start massively dc'ing against it and BHVR guts the killer to appease them
I’d say this is definitely viable to get the ball rolling but I’ve never had a problem with getting people slipstreamed imo. I will usually do something like this if gens start flying to pressure but other than that I’m playing five nights at fuckos trying to find these people asap
slugging isn’t toxic, there’s nothing wrong with it the same way people bringing 4 toolboxes isn’t toxic either, if you’re gonna change slugging you need to overhaul the game
HOOO! Brother. Now you talkin abaout. Just the two first perks are part of my favorite build with this killer. "Knock out / Infectious fright / Forced Hesitation / "
I think as someone who plays both killer and survivor slugging, even in a “non toxic way” I still think it’s very unhealthy to the game… It makes playing both sides pretty boring. It makes killer to easy and it makes playing survivor boring!
@@nojams42 I don't think people who also paid for the game wants to lay on the floor for 5 minutes being able to do nothing. Sure there's counters to things like this but who wants to run the same build every match just to counter a play style that is slowly becoming every match?
I think slugging one or two survivors and then go for hooks is alright but the moment you try to go for the 4th and they aren't actually in front of you, then I think it's actually toxic and very unhealthy (and boring) some killers who are snow ball characters kinda need to slug in the right moment. After all slugging is just a way to put pressure even if it's shitty one
Maybe when the 4 survs are down, the can get up without perks (with a diferrent bar to complete that stop bleding out while recovering) (Did i speak right? English is not my first language 😂)
If you have to sit there and consider just how bad something is, it's more then bad enough. You're just trying to justify it to yourself so you don't feel so bad about it.
I guess this isn't toxic but like its boring the survivors cant even touch a gen. No points for the survivors and you don't get much either. Behavior doesn't intend on this play style really. Which is why I rarely slug. I only start slugging when im obviously losing and see an opportunity to down 2 or 3.
I feel like playing like this is very toxic, it incentives bad gameplay that’s boring for both sides while being to easy for the killer and hard to counter for the survivors, yes they can have unbreakable or the Johnna perk but those perks can be countered by kicking or run out fast! While the killer can just down everyone again quickly! They should add unbreakable basekit if 2 or more survivors are on the ground, seems fair.
I think that even if it can't be technically considered "toxic", it still remains an unfun and scummy way to play, as while survivors don't stay on the ground for long, they are still forced to simply not be playing the game. unless the opponent is also having fun, or at least being able to play the game, I am not having fun against them.
craaazy how u used the exact build i use for singularity for a while. the only difference is that I use forced hesitation instead of deerstalker, I recommend u to try it.
I find the solution to the basekit ub you mentioned still not viable or work since a slugging killer could just pick up and then drop them since it removed there ub
What if not base kit unbreakable but it be like unhooking yourself and you have a chance to get back up and that alter to how it would fit during the match
Join my Discord! discord.gg/rknJCwth
bro remembered his password
FINALLY
This isnt necessarily toxic but also whats the fun in doing this imo, eventually after you do it a few times it will become a snoozefest
Well I wonder that when survivors wait at the exit gate after they won, but after so many years it still doesn't bore them
@@justhit6673Well at least the game is over, getting 4 man slugged is embarrassing as is, just shows how bad that you guys are, but in an instance where you do get 4 man slugged it has to be boring after a couple times
I mean this applies to ever strategy in most cases. Unless you’re going for a win streak, most people aren’t playing the same build for dozens of games.
@@forthelolz1121 Yeah, but this build in particular feels like it would make me bored. When matches end too quickly it makes that game a bit boring for me. sometimes I'll intentionally give the survivors a freebee so they have another shot at beating me if I'm winning too fast
Went against this a couple of times, yeah at some point I prepared some tea for myself and by the time I came by my character finally died on the floor.
Fantastic gameplay, good if you're dealing with insomnia.
I think theres 2 types of slugging
Slugging for pressure, and slugging to be a dick
Slugging for pressure is what you were doing here, even if this example is the most extreme it could be.
Slugging to be a dick is self explanatory
No such thing slug, tunnel, camp, get all hooks, and Win, but if they do all that not to win but to just annoy survivors then that can be annoying but surv get annoyed any way and I laugh and be toxic to them if they teabag me click and whatnot
@@THE_HORSEYY you are the issue in the community, stop making shit us vs them, its childish. If you are actively trying to annoy the other players, you are a dick. Plain and simple.
It's all smart to do.
@@WilliamAfton1946smart doesn’t mean fun. It’s smart to play Dracula, but that doesn’t mean it’s fun to play against him
@@tscole12What are you talking about😂
so if you guys ever wonder why every singularity main is slugging now, thank cocolatte
I went against a guy who was slugging with singularity a couple days ago, using a similar build and the same brown addon, but had a different second addon, was aids but he didn't 4 man slug, he did slug to get a lot of hook stages though, so I guess he wasn't as bad
@@hellskitchen7806was it that brown addon and a green syringe looking one?
@@Sceneric_the Brown addon and a yellow addon that does the same thing as the brown
The solution to bleed out is giving the survivors the option to just bleed out fast if they choose to, so they die in like 10 seconds. Cuz getting rid of bleed out entirely is stupid since that is often part of the pressure a killer has when slugging, if the survivor doesnt bleed out, the survivors can just leave one slugged and do gens cuz he wont die anyway and unbreakable is certainly not the play, in high mmr it happens that one survivor isnt hooked until the very end of the match and if that guy gets unbreakable for no reason while the killer is searching for him to hook is just gonna be abyssmal.
Slugging is a tool of pressure for the Killer and shouldnt be made worse, survivors should just have the option to escape being kept hostage when all are slugged. Which would be granting the ability to just completely bleed out instantly at like 50% bleed out timer or so
i don’t think BHVR wants giving up to be a mechanic in the game. Even self unhook attempts are meant to be a last ditch effort, not to die faster.
Most they could or would do is when your recovery bar is max you can try to get up by yourself and have it work like self unhooks
@@crunchycakegaming1507 yeah i get that, but when all are slugged, no ubs in the game, then they should have the option to bleed out instantly, cuz at that point the bleed out function has no use. Giving survivors second chances on everything they do that can fuck up your whole game cuz of one gamble shouldnt be a thing imo
@@saikyue4462 there’s an issue with all forms of any anti-slug system they could implement. If you’re soloq you could have unbreakable but your teammate doesn’t know that and decides to give up. Even if you’re in a SWF it becomes an issue for the killer because the killer gets more bloodpoints for sacrifices and if the killer just got a snowball half his blood points from that game are gone. Even if the killer really is just slugging everyone and not hooking to waste everyone’s time it’s 4 minutes at most, less if you’ve been downed before. They could implement faster bleedout but instant bleedout is never coming to the game and should never come
Here’s something I posted as a comment but I’m gonna put it here as well because it’s relevant :)
Heres something I wrote recently prompted by a Reddit post.
My thoughts on an optional method of bleeding out faster to avoid wasting time on the ground. For starters, a feature to allow survivors to bleed out faster can ONLY apply when all survivors are in the dying or hooked states. It must be a LOST game if we’re implementing features for players to just leave, otherwise it faces the same issues as ragequit ‘solutions’ like removing the dc penalty. Like it or not, there are situations where it is detrimental to the killer to insta pick a survivor. The game shouldn’t punish killers (not in a strategic way, obviously if a survivor is dying faster that a positive for the killer, but in terms of gameplay, only a select few enjoy when their opponent gives up haha) for making a strategic choice based on survivor mistakes. That said, I know the issue everyone wants to focus on is heavy/consistent slugging and bleeding out as a time waster.
One thing I think people have gotten correct, is that it should be a survivor choice. Not something that happens automatically when there are 4 slugs (because then it becomes a win con, making the issue worse, see mori finisher). Something of this sort should become usable when 4 survivors are incapacitated, be activated by the survivors, and still be slow enough to give teammates with second chance perks like Unbreakable enough time to turn the game around.
As a sort of random side note, something I’ve been chewing on is the sort of hypocritical catch 22 we all sort of catch ourselves in when the killer is slugging. When the pettiness starts coming to the surface and we start crawling as far and as unpredictably from where we were downed. “If the killer is gonna waste my time, I’m gonna… get this! waste their (my) time.” It feels nice sometimes, but as a killer, sometimes a person just spends 4 minutes on the ground and you WANTED to find them so badly but nope, crawled away while I was hooking other people. So anyway, while I doubt this is something anyone would find agreeable enough to implement, I’ve thought about having a sort of basekit deerstalker that activates on the same conditions as the ‘bleed out faster’ ability. Just once everyone is incapacitated, here they are, feel free to hook them.
No because then it isn't a punishment. It isn't just a tool to be used tactically; on occasion it is used to exact justice.
I don't think that this is toxic but it could be an unhealthy META, as taking agency/choice away from either side isn't great. Just like how the old Eruption/Call of Brine META wasn't toxic, but it was unhealthy because it took options away via the Incapacitated status effect. Same with some survivor METAs/stuff in the past that hasn't been overtly toxic, but was unhealthy.
I think in moderation, slugging and even camping or tunneling, is fine as a strategic move, but putting all your eggs in one basket (all slug, hard tunnel, etc.) could be unhealthy for the game even if it isn't explicitly toxic/bm'ing.
Yeah like how genrush completely destroys all pressure killer can do immediately.
omg is this a cocolatte video on my feed
hello
“Survivors aren’t left in the dying state often”
I doubt they can do much about it considering how perks like flashbang BGP, dying on pallets, still exists. Adding base kit UB would be a huge nerf to the bottom half of the killer roster, while other killers like blight can easily shake it off as a minor setback.
Knock out is indeed climbing up in population and utility. All thanks to recent changes around hooks: Why should I expose myself to BT, DS, OTR, deli, anticamp, 70 hook stages for doing the objective while I can win with 4 good chases in a row via slugging
Exactly, but that goes against survivors rules
Surprisingly, when killers suddenly get wayyy less pressure from hooks (effectively 30s more gen time in total for the remaining survivors *every hook*, they go to different methods to get necessary pressure.
slugging is the new meta in dbd
If singularity becomes infamous for slugging i will find you
He already is. Almost every singularity i play already does this shit
I mean Singularity is a snowball character so he kinda acts like oni where when he has the situation to find a quick down then he can and definitely should do it to get an upper hand
I never play the singularity like this and I don't intend to start now lol
@@jaydenjayden3778I legit played against one who used the exact same build, was playing solo Q, luckily my teammates were really good and got a 3 man out but yeah it was not really intense
I’ve gone against this build many times on multiple killers and i’d say the most unbearable thing about it and worth disconnecting for is that if the killer is not good at ending chases quickly they will stretch the match for too long for like 40+ minutes. The game just feels like a healing simulator at that point
I think one of the main factors that makes it frustrating is the fact that it absolutely banks on solo-q. 4 mans and such can actually stand a chance and counter knock out, but theres not much soloq can do to counter knock out with no comms. I've gone against slug build wraiths and the night and day difference between when I'm playing with a 4 man or playing solo/with a duo is insane and just feels wrong asoefjaoifjs. Especially when soloq teammates can barely process game mechanics to begin with
The one time I got beat with a slugging/bleedout build, it was by a solo queue team who just used their brains to counter the strat. That being said, most solo queue players aren't very good but that's an issue with the players rather than the queue type.
Soloq players aren't worse then swfs. They just don't have comms. That's it. And since "full slugging" isn't that popular (thankfully) most people don't know about the usual go-to counters. Which are hard to pull off without comms...
Facing a medium smart full slug killer as a 3-man swf was absolutly doable.
The same in a team with 4 soloq players is almost hopeless.
And yes, there are anti-slug perks. But I don't want to bring anti-slug, anti-camp and anti-tunnel perks just in case. Those are not exactly fun builds...
Regardless of toxicity, it doesn't seem very fun for either side. You do you though!
Its fun for killers
@@justhit6673 I suppose some folks may find that fun. I only play Killer and do not find that entertaining ('cause you don't get to play the game)!
Yeah I totally agree. I would honestly just hook those two survivors in the first game and do light slugging with this build going for the 4 k slug or trying so hard for it is imo cringe and not very exciting maybe I am just hook coded
I love the range addon for the cams, it makes singularity so much more fun
Dad is home
😈
Omg my two dads
Oh wow! It's you! I found out you're a giant jerk! You bullied my girlfriend in end game chat and called her trash because she's a new player. Classy move.
I’m newish so I don’t have crazy knowledge on the whole situation.
But they could make it so while in slug mode, you cannot bleed out, you can go down a hook stage and whatnot, but in order for them to die they will have to be hooked!
Admitedly the RPD game was kinda why killers shouldnt be so confortable with slugging, sure if you try to get it early sure but after a while they were literaly just bleeding out on the floor waiting and that sucks, as a killer main i understand the need for slugging but if you can get the game after a while go pick up so they can also play the game.
As a killer main i know survivors dont forgive killers, like i know most survivors wont bat an eye if a killer get cero hooks in a game, but that said i still think that staying on the floor for so long cant be fun.
At the end of the day is all about balance in the mentality of the players and hoping that everyone just want to have a fun game.
Idk if you do build suggestions but i had this one build for singularity that ive been trying to get to test out myself but its taking me ages to grind for it lol.
The perks are game afoot, rapid brutality, furtive chase and friends till the end. Addons are the slower overclock stun penalty and the hinder survivor when tping or extended overclock mode.
The idea is you hook the obsession then tp to the new obsession begin a chase and slipstream them and try to get “stunned” by a pallet to gain the speed boost from game afoot and hit the survivor to gain as much speed as possible without straying from normal singularity gameplay.
Also to combat bleed outs i would say remove the bleed out timer but give the option for survivors to dc if they want to if bled out for too long and replace themselves with a bot so the chance for a comeback is possible
1:52 POV you forgot you removed a perk you bring 24/7
I always use slug build but mine is different.
First two perk same but deerstalker not necessarily. I use (I forgot the name) Singularity perk slows everyone around when down a survlvor.
And fourth Fearmonger blinds survivors while repair gen
Add ons (yellow add-on I forgot the name)
Blinds survivors when 12m near a biopod.
And any add-on make you someone easily take down.
With this build survivors always blind. When down a survivor if someone around easy down if nobody around they can't know anything about where is the downed survivor. Even if near the downed survivor they can't see him aura if there is a biopod nearby. (You can put biopds around the downed survivor)
Very very OP build. I didn't remember any game I lost.
6:40 if everyone has unbreakable on the first down and it goes away when picked up, you'd just down them, pick them up and drop them I think.
9:05 this survivor had me cracking up lmao
The one time I ever 4 man slugged was when a swf kept breaking every hook on the map so I just let them bleed out
I've only done it once as well and it was eyrie of crows. Boon exponential, UB, Flip Flop, Boil Over type builds on all of them. Of course they had flashlight sabo as well. I just said f it if ur gonna sweat im gonna sweat. That match was probably 30 minutes long if not longer.
I think first down unbreaks will just get countered by killers playing them to second and then slugging. Postpones but doesn't remove the issue ultimately.
Unbreakable + Choice to Let Go after 2 minutes on the floor.
A choice to give up would be amazing considering how many killers slug for the 4k on the last two. I end up dcing because a killer is willing to leave me or someone else on the ground so no body can get hatch.
I think the solution to killers letting 4 survivors bleed out is to simply add time modifiers the more survivors are left on the ground. Takes 4 mins to bleed out right? So let's say if 2 are on the ground now the timer goes faster, 3 on the ground timer goes faster all 4 on the ground the timer goes faster. Significantly reduces the time that survivors have to wait to move on.
I think if they add basekit unbreakable it should be only active if the killer Leaves you on the ground for 30+ seconds but the time should pause if your team is near you like the unhook timer to make it fair
8:20
amazing point, both sides have what people think are “toxic” because the game is fundamentally flawed
so if they actually overhaul the game then slugging can be removed
4:12 I 100% think its scummy holy **** my guy I hate playing against slug builds as survivor so much because it's so boring and the sad part is (at least for me not for you) bhvr endorses this playstyle :p
there should be a mechanic where if you have been bleeding out for too long that you can press a button to teleport onto a hook or something to counter bleeding out. I see the issues with this I am just making an idea. Maybe also a mechanic to give the killer you aura if your on the ground and they can't find you.
Just make deerstalker basekit after some time
Deerstalker basekit if you're more than 36 meters away from the downed person perhaps.
@@The_Scryer killers like Trapper wouldn't get much out of it since their slow but the typical top tiers with insane movement get a whole lot so i don't really know if implementing it base would be balanced
Counters are bad for the game.
We had teleporting hooks for events, and ppl were mad about it. But it allowed the killer to put u on the hook faster and he didn't have to slug u to chase someone else but ppl cried about flash light saves etc so it was discontinued.
If I were to come up with a solution to slugging personally I'd make it so if you have been on the floor for half of the timer (2 minutes) you may pick yourself up. Because I think being on the floor for 2 minutes gives the killer enough time to deal with saves so if that's the reason they can't pick up it's fine
Would personally run sloppy instead of deerstalker on this as well as surge instead of infectious fright. Instead of the iri addon you could also run soma for more slowdown.
Sloppy makes pickups slower which is huge and makes resetting slower; surge gives you passive free slowdown with 0 hook downtime needed. I found that slugging builds are so much more effective when u run perks to help with stalling the game. Perks like deerstalker are pointless, especially if you plan to hard slug since why do you care where the slugs are when you are not going to be hooking them anyway?
Builds like I described are so nasty and I am glad people do not realise just how effective they can be.
This is actually pretty strong because it avoids the most annoying perks: DH, off the record and DS
i'm doing this for a few months now, good thing you shared. People not ready for this most of the time.
Honey, wake up, Chocolatte has discovering an insane build for 4k slugging and posted it on youtube
slugging like this is way too strong, when survivors can't even pop a gen something's wrong.
Basekit UB is also too strong. If a killer can’t hook because they risk flashes, or stuns then something’s wrong.
if everyone can play like Cocolatte, sure, but not everyone can play like that even have the build and same map. :)
@@lonetiger0774low-key you gotta be honestly garbage as fuck if you can't look at a wall when you pick up someone
I got the same visual bug you got on Dead Dog while playing the Unknown. I guess it affects most teleporting killers.
I really enjoy running an exposed build on Singularity--Friends til the End, Make Your Choice, Starstruck and Surge for gen defense.
I run the Nano Gel and the Soma Family Photo.
Quick update: Used this build once, alrdy had 3 ppl DC on me. GG, I guess you were right.
Yeah this will spread. More people will start using this build for sure.
Slugging builds are some of the most fun I've had with DBD. Definitely very possible to counterplay, just people don't care to think about how to.
Personally. I would rather be slugged than hooked unless I’m stuck there for the entire bleedout. That’s fine. Slugging is also fine if you actually are willing to hook them.
There is no real solution to slugging though. I think the BETTER question when it comes to tunneling and slugging is “why do killers do that?” Because THEN you can maybe fix the core issues.
It's really similar to a build I use! I added that singularity perk to slow down survs, so i slug and then i know where slowed survs are XD with jolt. The counter is spreading around all map, but it's quite fun (evil)
Holy new Coco video! Personally I think slugging isn't at all fun to play against however it is neccesary to create map pressure especially on Singularity, but I think doing it from the start with all 4 survivors is a bit overkill
After being left on the ground for a minute you can fully recovey from the dying state.
This is a simple mechanic that will actually let the survivors play the game if left slugged for some time.
No shit, it's a bug with the lighting? I legit thought I was going schizo when I tp'd two days ago and my midwich turned into the abyss by dropping three or four color waves.
Love you Coco, thank you for the content! :)
"Im not intentionally bleeding them out" while refusing to hook them is literally intentionally bleeding them out if the survivors are picking each other up
Intentionally bleeding them out would be leaving them all on the ground after i down them all.
I've always thought it was a problem that Slipstream stays on slugs, but goes away on hooks, what does that tell the user?
Either gone on down or only through EMP, this really shouldn't happen
Same with Freddy’s power. Hes punished for hooking fast by increasing tp cooldown, and his chase power is disabled. He’s better off slugging especially if you bring the pallet addons.
unbreakable at bleed out percentages should probley work fine. like at 50% or 25% bleed out it would dissuad alot of the slugging without impacting most killers and games.
the cutter frame outfit looks sick
Imo survivors should get basekit unbreakable only if all four survivors are in the downed state. This would prevent 4k slugfests and this play style would only work if you managed an early tunnel out which seems much more counterable.
In return we killers ask that touching the killer and all interactions with killer objects count as conspicuous. As well as the removal of the chase indicator on survivor side.
Having no bleed out timer is a really bad idea, The killer can hold the game hostage forever if that was the case
The only way this would be toxic is if you decide to not hook anybody and just leave em to die from bleed out. This is a strat that alot of ppl would consider being toxic but it's how the killer plays
I hook two ppl consistently and the other two I don't really have pressure with, I leave slugged with this perk.
I would personally make it so that if all currently living Survivors are downed/hooked, Survivors then unlock the ability to bleed out faster
If games like in this video happens where it is clearly over, they can move on fast, whereas a close game could have Survivors stay in the game in hopes of a Kobe/Unbreakable/Etc
Killers can no longer 4 man slug for 4 minutes
Base Kit Unbreakable until Gates are Powered. That way Unbreakable still has a use. Still only one use (Actually having the perk will still give you another use but again: Deactivated after use and can still be used in End Game)
Viable Strat? Yeah, can be. Is it going to probably call for heavy nerfs to doing this? Well.... yeah. Especially on killers that can do this because they can teleport, ignore pallet stuns because of it, and still lock down a 3 Gen.
It can make new players leave the game, not come back and hurt the player base because they'll think this is what every killer will do. Just like Face Camp Bubba. Or Inf-Tombstone Myers. Can it be considered Meta? Yes, it's VERY heavily Chase Oriented and gives you the edges you need against teams. I don't know if they'd take a look at changing the Killer or changing the way some mechanics work. As a Killer Main, this isn't what I'd consider Meta, I'd consider it poor sportsmanship because you're not getting full Hook Value, other side just can't play the game. Like you said: You're not going against Comp teams every game. At that point gauge the match. Are killers supposed to kill by every and any means? Sure. However I consider 3 Out 1 Survived to be a win to me, maybe BHVR doesn't but I can say from picking up Spirit for the first time yesterday and in 2 matches went from 6/12 hook states and no outs to get 3 out and let one get hatch with 11 hook states is a win to me. I didn't want the player who gave up to stop playing the game because it may have been their first game and to show them it's never over. Even when it's over, you could still come back.
Heres something I wrote recently prompted by a Reddit post.
My thoughts on an optional method of bleeding out faster to avoid wasting time on the ground. For starters, a feature to allow survivors to bleed out faster can ONLY apply when all survivors are in the dying or hooked states. It must be a LOST game if we’re implementing features for players to just leave, otherwise it faces the same issues as ragequit ‘solutions’ like removing the dc penalty. Like it or not, there are situations where it is detrimental to the killer to insta pick a survivor. The game shouldn’t punish killers (not in a strategic way, obviously if a survivor is dying faster that a positive for the killer, but in terms of gameplay, only a select few enjoy when their opponent gives up haha) for making a strategic choice based on survivor mistakes. That said, I know the issue everyone wants to focus on is heavy/consistent slugging and bleeding out as a time waster.
One thing I think people have gotten correct, is that it should be a survivor choice. Not something that happens automatically when there are 4 slugs (because then it becomes a win con, making the issue worse, see mori finisher). Something of this sort should become usable when 4 survivors are incapacitated, be activated by the survivors, and still be slow enough to give teammates with second chance perks like Unbreakable enough time to turn the game around.
As a sort of random side note, something I’ve been chewing on is the sort of hypocritical catch 22 we all sort of catch ourselves in when the killer is slugging. When the pettiness starts coming to the surface and we start crawling as far and as unpredictably from where we were downed. “If the killer is gonna waste my time, I’m gonna… get this! waste their (my) time.” It feels nice sometimes, but as a killer, sometimes a person just spends 4 minutes on the ground and you WANTED to find them so badly but nope, crawled away while I was hooking other people. So anyway, while I doubt this is something anyone would find agreeable enough to implement, I’ve thought about having a sort of basekit deerstalker that activates on the same conditions as the ‘bleed out faster’ ability. Just once everyone is incapacitated, here they are, feel free to hook them.
the lighting change also happens to me on twins when i switch back from victor
It’s even better when you use jolt, don’t ask how I know…
Edit: also slugging is very nice to build into, as you completely avoid 2nd chance perks like dead hard, decisive, off the rec, deli, etc…
The fact you hooked them makes it not toxic.
Is slugging strong? Yes. But it's not fun for both sides.
Please make a video on strategies versus coordinated SWF. Those are the only groups Singu still struggles against.
I have a comp video where I'm playing against an extremely coordinated swf, doesn't get any better than that.
this could potentially be more fun than old 3 gen hux, at least as strong, which means it'll garbage once survivors start massively dc'ing against it and BHVR guts the killer to appease them
I’d say this is definitely viable to get the ball rolling but I’ve never had a problem with getting people slipstreamed imo. I will usually do something like this if gens start flying to pressure but other than that I’m playing five nights at fuckos trying to find these people asap
slugging isn’t toxic, there’s nothing wrong with it the same way people bringing 4 toolboxes isn’t toxic either, if you’re gonna change slugging you need to overhaul the game
Glad to be back watching my favorite singularity main
9:44 I gotta say I actually love this lighting a lot
Its a game mechanic as annoying as slugging is it surves a purpose so its a necessary evil
HOOO! Brother. Now you talkin abaout. Just the two first perks are part of my favorite build with this killer. "Knock out / Infectious fright / Forced Hesitation / "
I tried knock out on dredge and it was fun and scary for them, as I used the nightfall add on much longer xD
slug , surge, knockout, sloppy, rapid, soma crew do keep mending the survivors, can run any other addon
A new cocolatte video, good day ❤
I think as someone who plays both killer and survivor slugging, even in a “non toxic way” I still think it’s very unhealthy to the game… It makes playing both sides pretty boring. It makes killer to easy and it makes playing survivor boring!
i think if you paid for the game you can play however u feel and there are counters to slugging they are just very unlucky
@@nojams42 I don't think people who also paid for the game wants to lay on the floor for 5 minutes being able to do nothing.
Sure there's counters to things like this but who wants to run the same build every match just to counter a play style that is slowly becoming every match?
whether u like it or not your gonna have “good” and “bad” matches just gotta learn to cope
I play both sides equally and best believe imma play how I want. I try learning a new killer n get t bagged and gen rushed so imma play toxic too :p
I think slugging one or two survivors and then go for hooks is alright but the moment you try to go for the 4th and they aren't actually in front of you, then I think it's actually toxic and very unhealthy (and boring) some killers who are snow ball characters kinda need to slug in the right moment. After all slugging is just a way to put pressure even if it's shitty one
bro I've been having people get so mad at me for using this build, thank you so much🙏
Try Knockout, Forced Hesitation, Rapid Brutality, and Save the Best on Singularity to get even better results
I love this 🙏🏾 thanks for the build 😈
Maybe when the 4 survs are down, the can get up without perks (with a diferrent bar to complete that stop bleding out while recovering)
(Did i speak right? English is not my first language 😂)
If you have to sit there and consider just how bad something is, it's more then bad enough. You're just trying to justify it to yourself so you don't feel so bad about it.
I guess this isn't toxic but like its boring the survivors cant even touch a gen. No points for the survivors and you don't get much either. Behavior doesn't intend on this play style really. Which is why I rarely slug. I only start slugging when im obviously losing and see an opportunity to down 2 or 3.
If BHVR didnt want slugging to be so common, they shouldn't have done all the changes they did lately
basekit unbreakable but you have to be on the ground for 60 seconds to get it
Oh, they'll complain about it.
I think sloppy would be great for this build, 25% slower recovery and harder to pick up
Naw this ain't the Singularity anymore, this is the Slugularity
Bro found Spies+Deerstalker Billy but for Hux
I feel like playing like this is very toxic, it incentives bad gameplay that’s boring for both sides while being to easy for the killer and hard to counter for the survivors, yes they can have unbreakable or the Johnna perk but those perks can be countered by kicking or run out fast! While the killer can just down everyone again quickly! They should add unbreakable basekit if 2 or more survivors are on the ground, seems fair.
ive always felt slugging is better for singularity since hooking then removes the infection, same idea goes for freddy... not that i would do it
I've been using this build and its so good! I'm never gonna do anything else, this is the move Coco. Thanks for the idea!
It doesn’t matter, to me slugging is pretty much the equivalent of immersive gen rushing. They’re both annoying to go against
I think that even if it can't be technically considered "toxic", it still remains an unfun and scummy way to play, as while survivors don't stay on the ground for long, they are still forced to simply not be playing the game. unless the opponent is also having fun, or at least being able to play the game, I am not having fun against them.
craaazy how u used the exact build i use for singularity for a while. the only difference is that I use forced hesitation instead of deerstalker, I recommend u to try it.
I find the solution to the basekit ub you mentioned still not viable or work since a slugging killer could just pick up and then drop them since it removed there ub
i dont think flashbang is toxic ngl its actually a rlly fair perk imo
I do not find this toxic at all. It is a valid strategy in the game.. so.. well I am going on my Larry to test this build at myself =) Cheers
This build looks wholesome to me
What if not base kit unbreakable but it be like unhooking yourself and you have a chance to get back up and that alter to how it would fit during the match
Ah the slugularity meta
i thought i was crazy for seeing different shades
On 24th can you see the new skin, he only gets one every blue moon
First game was definitely hard slugging tho when 2 bodies were on top of each other in a corner of the map
tried this a few games and the a guy called p diddy cussed at me lol