To @MO-rl9gl In the same vein, I am eagerly looking forward to Dog the Bounty Hunter's critique and analysis of Wagnerian opera and Hulk Hogan's commentary on the collecting of fine 18th Century English porcelain.
@@oosmanbeekawoo this whole discussion is not about those who have fun playing it. (without getting paid) It is about the idiots in the stadium identifying with their own disgusting group dynamics
I think that most people support “the idea” of the team. That’s why you can change almost everything and people will still cheer, because it’s all in their heads
What if "Chelsea football club" decided to change their name to "Mhelsea football club"? Would that change your opinion of them? What if they decided to change it to "Maelsea football club"? "Manlsea"? "Mancsea"? "Manchea"? "Manches"? "Manchester"? Manchester football club?
The teams represent themselves. It's not an empty idea, each team has a rich history, legacy, and ongoing story that's uniquely intertwined with the lives of the fans that enjoy them, and the players and staff that run them. It's even more than that though because these teams also represent the cities, states, or countries they're based in, furthering those historical roots. It's all quite beautiful actually.
"a rich history, legacy and ongoing story" Are you describing a culture, a civilisation, a hero or just a mere sports team ? That's over exaggerated x)
@@camillepetit9623 I'm describing long running institutions that have become pillars of entertainment and culture for many communities. "Mere" doesn't adequately describe the impact and meaning that sports have in people's lives.
It's more complex than Alex realises. Different fans have a different relationship with a club. Personally my entire youth was spent supporting a club with a history of losing simply because I was brainwashed by my family that that club is "my club". The memories I have of that team became memories doing something together with my father "cheering for _our_ team". If I meet someone of a similar age to me that also supports my club, we know instantly that we share a lot of memories of highs and lows, and that is our bond which we'd otherwise be strangers. There's other fans that picked their team as a child or even an adult because they want to fit it. But their support may be limited to answering "club y" when asked who they support despite never watching matches. If a player leaves a club, they're considered dead in 99% of cases. There's a few exceptions like some Spurs fans keeping an eye on Harry Kane's performances at Bayern Munich, but that's just some fans and it's an exceptional case of a local lad becoming arguably the greatest ever player for that team.
That's just not true. Most people don't have a player for leaving. They hate a player for the manner in which they leave. If a player joins the rivals of a team or something like that, they're going to be viewed as dead. But in most cases, fans understand that players just move to other teams.
This actually happened. Wimbledon FC relocated to Milton Keynes in 2003 but kept the players and the name “Wimbledon” until 2004, when it renamed itself MK Dons. Clearly the supporters were not supporting the *players* or the *brand* Wimbledon FC because once it moved to Milton Keynes they abandoned the club in droves and eventually came together to form the new AFC Wimbledon. It’s hard to quantify exactly what they *were* supporting but this real life example of this thought experiment shows at least that it’s not the players or the brand.
It's like being a part of a country. You support its legacy, the people that come and go to lead it, its community, and most importantly, you support and take pride in the notion that as fans, you are a part of the community and legacy. When MK Dons formed, the community, along with its historical heritage was absolutely abolished while the "leaders" moved to a completely different location. That would be the equivalent to a President / King and their government just ditching the country's people to form another country of the same name - the people would clearly not have a reason the be supportive of that new country and would be incentivised to create another country to fill the gaping hole left behind.
The funniest and worst part about that was that the MK Dons owner had the gall to say "we have won the FA Cup once". Wait wait wait... Hold on... Stop the bus... Do you mean The Crazy Gang. THE CRAZY GANG! One of the most infamous and famous cup winning teams of the 20th century? At least the MK Dons owner saw the light and returned Wimbledon FC's history back to them [AFC Wimbledon].
As Jerry Seinfeld famously said in one of his routines, "Loyalty to any one sports team is pretty hard to justify, because the players are always changing; the team could move to another city. You're actually rooting for the clothes when you get right down to it."
@@messicomps344, but what is it? Even the supporters change over time. There are teams that are over one hundred years old, they probably don't have many of the original supporters.
11:00 Alex you hit the core of it. It’s the instant community. Especially in modern society where there is so many ways we are fractured. Sports give us a way to find people and have an instant commonality, a way to bond together with strangers in your space. A sense of communal legend, stories, and shared experience. Yes there is also the appreciation for the physical display, there is no shortchanging that, but it serves a bridge that can cross all barriers of class, generation, and even political Ideology. I’m a Cubs fan, and sharing the experience of what that meant with family is something I can not undersell the preciousness of. Being with my uncle at the game that sent them to the World Series in 2016, ending a 108 year old drought, is one of the most magical experiences ever. The instant elation, and communal outpouring of joy is something that can not be put into words. In an instant that stadium was 42,000 brothers and sisters in pure joy. Yes the players are now almost all gone from that team. There is almost nothing that connects the team today to that one from 2016, other than that community.
My sense is that the supporters are supporting supporters. they support each other. the most unchanging thing about a team IS their fans. also yes, I agree with this comments about “essence” here
Well my team has came last 2 years in a row now so let me tell you the fans are definitely supporting each other, because we've given up on the players 😂
I love when you're watching sports as a fan and you side with your own team whenever the ball goes out of bounds or a fall happens. No one is sure what just happened yet until you see the replay, but you just side with your team in the moment because it benefits you. It's a beautiful moment that highlights the tribalism associated with team support that frequently happens and gets you out of your chair YELLING.
Haha, that's interesting to read! I think I stopped enjoying football for that exact reason - the objective truth comes second to subjective interpretation, which is the root of so many problems we see in the world :)
Hate to be this guy but sports fanatics yelling and getting rowdy always disturbed me. Even as a kid they seemed like barbarians - and my parents were just that. Not that I desire to take their fun away just because it was bothering. Of course not. But I've never had the capacity to relate to this behavior.
@@phillystevesteak6982 I’m not a fan of any particular team but I think the fun is in taking a moment to stop pretending we’re above our barbaric nature.
All about pressure on the officials, probably works to some extent. The players from both sides appeal for everything even if it's obvious, the crowd follow suit. Have been to some games where "we" think we've been hard done by, and when the referee makes a "right" decision the crowd goes sarcastically wild as if a goal's been scored. Different dynamic watching on a screen, as what actually happened gets shown pretty quickly. I'm not sure knowing you've been hard done by is better than just thinking it though. My Dad's generation lived off the righteous indignation of claiming they were hard done by in games of yore, with no evidence either way.
@@phillystevesteak6982 Totally get that. Wish that's something I'd learned earlier. What the hell it looks like to the uninitiated! Went round with a large group of friends "home and away" for several years following our club. While we knew we were harmless, those who couldn't tell the difference between passionate fans and hooligans had no idea.
I'm glad you raised the issue. this is one of things that I am fascinated about. I am Manchester United fan. I'm not from England ( am in Ethiopia, Africa), I don't exactly know how and why I begin to support the club. the owners, the manager and the players that used to play for the club when I began to support the club are not there now, not one. And yet I support the club seriously. I cherish when they win and feel really bad when they lose. It is soo fascinating !
It is fascinating, I'm a rugby league supporter, my team has come last 2 years in a row, I'm so used to watching my team lose that almost all emotion has left me when I watch the game now, I kind of expect to lose now which makes coping with losing easier, I actually laugh sometimes when we lose. I havent lived in the same state for 20yrs so ive been taking a 2hr flight at least once a year to watch them play at our home ground that I've been going to since I was in nappies. The strange thing about my club is its a merged club, so it's not even my original club anymore, its 2 different clubs that merged together but I support it just as much as i supported my original club. It is strange, everything about the club has changed bar one of the fields they play at which I'm very attached to. If you think about it logically it doesn't make sense yet I'm still 100% invested, I'm rusted on for life.
i never found soccer appealing (southampton UK brit here) but what beats me these days is hardly anyone form any club is from the "name of the team" they represent, they are from all over the world, paid for and playing as a business, not a "hometown team" of people from the area where the team gets it's name from.
Ye arsenal degafi teqebeyalesh abate😁, last year was the happiest I've been in a while( banbelawim lol) and the amount this affects my life is fascinating and a bit concerning.
I actually had never thought about it. My football passion was inherited by my parents, all of my family are supporters of our own hometown club, SC Bastia.
@@macdougdougIt's very much the traditional fan dynamic, just like my friends and family. Used to be vital to all clubs, now the big ones see their global TV fans as more important. Still the same local family links the smaller the clubs get, at least in the UK where there's centuries of this sort of local rivalry. Possibly the closest thing to religion that isn't "proper" religion that I've experienced. Born into it, devotion beyond reason, gather together and worship at fixed times. The two sets of fans interact, with certain songs met with expected responses. The idols perform the ritual, the choir roars their approval. Ancient religious tribalist warfare basically. A few protagonists compete while the rest of the village shout, scream, jump up and down, and demonstrate a warlike posture while just being part of the chorus.
@@jimb9063 It very much reminds of that, especially when our "rival" team is the only other Corsican team in French football. It's like we are embracing a tribal need to differentiate ourselves from the other Corsican team (and thus town) through some kind of ritualistic challenge. To note, I think challenges can be great. I don't necessarily think it is a bad thing. Our teams are small clubs and they act almost like "social clubs" or how Church used to act. There are minutes of silence for dead supporters, their names are announced, you get to see people from your town and talk to them when you wouldn't otherwise (etc....)
@@LaRévolutionSociale Wow that's quite a unique rivalry. Another Med island to visit! Yes I agree it's generally a good thing. Like a lot of human creations, the group dynamic is both good and bad. Football can usually be a safe way for the group to show anger at "The Other" in ways which can't be done otherwise in society. Can be taken too far obviously, fortunately not too often these days.
Sports fandom is about history and community. Alex touches on the community aspect. But also sports fandom gives and emotional resonce to the past. Buying into the community fandom generates historical markers of events that become a shared expiernce. Me telling you how vividly i remember sitting in a bar when aaron boone hit the home run off Wakefield means nothing to most people, but if you are and were a Boston Red Sox fan you have a shared understanding and connection based oj that.
Interesting video - I agree with your final conclusion that it's really about the supporters/fans themselves that give it meaning, creating these communities and rivalries to fulfill their inner tribalism.
Sports is just about feeling something. It's a source of emotions, a microcosm of life, there to tell the fans something to feel to distract them from their normal boring lives.
@@fivestarsingh Agreed. And for me it is on a different level than a TV show or movie. I don't think I've ever jumped out of my chair cheering at something that happened in a movie, but I have watching sports. I think it's the unpredictable and unscripted nature of sports that draws people in.
I started watching football from Manchester United's game. I immediately fell in love with the kit colour ( red's my favourite colour. I then started to read their history, achievements, more games. And that's how I became a united fan.
Yes ! Throughout the video and in the comments I was waiting on someone saying the obvious - history . history applies to clubs like Man United , Liverpool, Arsenal etc cos they have history and have served up iconic moments to sports and culture more generally . Alex asking ‘ what is Chelsea ‘ did make me laugh though. It’s a fair point
It is the idea and aura of the team that resonates with people. So many individuals are patriotic about their home country, even though a sovereign nation is really just a shared idea. For example, take the New York Yankees. They are the winningest team in Major League Baseball with 27 championships. The Yankees embody a culture of winning and excellence that resonates with fans. This is what fans are passionately cheering for when it comes to their favorite sports team. Each team harnesses qualities and a culture that is specific to that team. Fans see these qualities as an extension of themselves, and therefor find it worthwhile to cheer for
I had this exact conversation with my then-girlfriend. I even had the exact example as your first one in the video. I'm not sure if it's a common objection or example, but I was really surprised to hear the exact same example given that I don't remember hearing that objection before I made it. Weirdly or not, I wasn't into following sports, while she was an avid supporter of one particular team. Her response to the first thing you've said in this video (players switching teams) was this: *"The team I support has history. Many legendary moments happened and many legendary players were playing for this very team, and this is not a super high-paying team. They played for the money, of course, but that was not the primary reason. Many players on this team, current and past, could've been paid more if they had accepted the higher offers that were indeed on the table. I support the idea of an underdog, not playing primarily for the money, being able to, hopefully once again, win the Champions League as they did in 1991 (now you know the name of the team).* *Especially because in 1991, a war started, and it was amazing to hear that the guys didn't stop playing for the team, and they competed at the highest level and managed to do the unthinkable. If you were to compare the earnings of each player on our team at that time with those of their opponents, they shouldn't have been able to stand a chance. Yet there they were. And they won it!* *I support that."* I thought that made sense. I guess it's kind of "hero story" with some additional trinkets attached to it.
Here is my husband's answer. We are talking about italian soccer. "I would keep supporting my team even if all the changes you suggest occur. But it depends on how quickly they happen. I still have to be able to recognize my team and connect it to its story" -very similar to what your girlfriend said-" of course if between june and september you made ALL those changes including the name of the team, I wouldn't recognize my team, but most of all, nobody else would. Our enemies would no longer hate the team. " So would you stop whatching soccer, I asked. He laughed and said, "i would have to look for the most hated team in Italy and support them." So, to him, it's mostly a social thing, I guess
The amount of time/money personally invested. It’s a story, a tv soap. A club is a ever evolving character we’re attached too but we know it’s past better than other characters. It’s familiarity, comfort and excitement. It’s that racist grandparent you love even if their rough around the edges.
Sports are about being in a tribe. Belonging to a community. You support your city. You identify with the history, the culture, the common features, you have rival teams you can collectively hate. It's about being accepted into a group for just wearing the colors and showing up to cheer. It's handed down in families for generations. I don't thinks it's all bad, in fact there is a lot of good aspects about being a sports fan.
Yeah but a lot of people just randomly support teams that aren’t where they live and they have no connection to the city, which is what this whole video was about
There is some good sociology of sport. Worth anyones time. Im always quick to highlight the history and development of sport in the context and in taden with the history and development of law. And our general drift away from violent ways of dealing with our problems and interactions.
At school a lot of kids picked the best teams at the time instead of the local team and it just stuck. Glory hunting basically. On the other end Wimbledon (in London) were bought and moved to Milton Keynes ~50 miles away. The old fan base got together and created a new local club.
I think it's usually because those are the teams playing the most attractive style of football at the time and they make you fall in love with the sport.
I’m a big fan of the Chicago Cubs, partly because that’s the first sports team I was exposed to, but mostly because it’s a team that’s been embraced as the “lovable losers.” I really value loyalty and compassion, and there’s something about a community that still supports a team that didn’t win for over a century that embodies those values. So to me, supporting the cubs brings not only a sense of community, but a sense of community that shares my values of loyalty and compassion. We love those cute little cubbies!
The missing answer in this conversation is the emotional attachment between the fans and the team/sport. In the pencil example, it's clear why people reacted to the breaking of the pencil. Because he humanized it and the people listening developed a new emotional attachment to it, only for it to be destroyed. You watch football because you and your dad would watch it growing up. Your friends at school talk about it. The same way you celebrate Christmas, because it's tradition. It's just what you do.
Many big Premier League clubs have massive support world-wide, but most fans who attend matches are from that city. My best friend in Primary School (in North London) was a Spurs fan and his dad took us to a match so I started supporting them. We support players as long as they part of the Football Club. It's the entity of the "Football Club" - in my case Tottenham - that we support and by extension we support the players as long as they are serving this entity.
I'm trying to look at this from an outsider point of view. My views on a sport I don't know that well are probably formed by random headlines, and culture based ironic stereotypes in TV/film. Given that, it's no surprise that people might think all football is like how the 2 or 3 biggest teams operate, with worldwide fans, billions of pounds, and international players. The world is divided by those who know why Hartlepool are called The Monkey Hangers, and those that didn't even know Hartlepool had a football team.
I am a massive sports fan, and I find its primitive underpinnings absolutely ludicrous. Viewing things from a purely logical lens has curtailed my enjoyment to a degree, but I'm always sure to feel a rush of ecstasy whenever Liverpool smash Man Utd. Some things just can't be explained.
Several studies have shown that fans hormonal stress levels can reach that of the players on the pitch during a game. We really do feel connected. I can also agree with satisfaction from beating Manu U. 0-0 at Anfield left me down for days!
I've felt similar, thinking about it endlessly always ending up with the same answer. But it hasn't taken away the excitement AT ALL for me, even tho I can't explain it. But I quite like that, the world would be boring without some mystery. So just enjoy it, accept that it simply is and has no pure logical answer.
I'd say a lot from school. I supported Blackburn rovers at school because my best friend did. Switched to Newcastle when Shearer moved as I admired him. Haven't followed footy since I was 14 though.
I have thought about these questions ad nauseum. I find it amusing that spokespeople of a professional team would refer to the team as "Your [team name]". I guess that when I pay admission, or watch a commercial on TV when the game is broadcast, I have paid the owner for the right to refer to the team as "my [team name]".
It’s your team as it’s the team you support? I’ve only ever heard Americans make this bizarre arguement. Is saying my school bizarre? You don’t own the school but clearly it’s the school you go to.
@@acksawblack That's close to an air-tight argument, but not quite. You actually _go_ to the school. If I were on a team, I would refer to it as "my team". If I were in the stands rooting for the team , I would not make that reference.
I view this through the lens of attachment theory. The deep connection one builds with Chelsea FC provides a secure base (a platform to push off from) a safe haven (something reliable to return to that will always be there). Supporters will seek proximity to the team via news and keeping up to date with transfers. They will also suffer withdrawal during off season. In this sense, you might argue that avidly supporting a football team (the most fervent of supporters) can share the qualities of an addiction.
You’re supporting the essence of the team, the institution itself. It is the place. It’s the relationship you’ve built with the team that you’ve been introduced to (usually by your dad). You’re supporting the badge. You’re supporting the history of the team and all the previous great teams of the past who played in the same shirt. I think if it’s something you haven’t experienced first hand, it might be confusing, but real football fans know the differences between a “glory-hunter” or tourist type fan, and a real, stalwart supporter.
bullshit.... what is the essence? the essence of anything? Who would define what the essence of anything would be? God? Or a dictator? You are a born slave.
@@jamesrutterford576 you are mistaking the art of inquiry for not understanding, likely because you have no clue about the former. Note that fan comes from fanatic, and a fanatic by definition does not understand anything. And you certainly, as you demonstrated already, are someone who is lacking several levels of abstraction in his "thinking".
@@monnoo8221 Alright mate, cheers for that word salad. Alex, for all his brilliance, simply failed to quite grasp what is obvious about football fan culture only to those immersed in it. Not every process of struggling to understand something can be defended with the term “art of enquiry”. Sometimes people just don’t quite hit the nail on the head, and his lake of engagement with team sport was quite obvious in his reasoning. I believe I do not “lack several layers of abstraction in my thinking”, as someone with a first-class degree in philosophy from one of the UKs best universities, but thank you for that diagnosis.
@@monnoo8221No he has an actual clear lack of understanding. Comments under this video are some of the most self-masturbatory overly verbose and meandering I have ever seen. Well educated people explain themselves succinctly and don’t presume their readers have brain damage. Watching RUclips philosophers and having a 2:1 from a polytechnic doesn’t make you an enlightened thinker it just makes you type like you have a pole up your arse alongside a thesaurus to overcompensate 😂
The term "franchise" is horrendous. Even if it's realistically true even for football in England, the fact Americans just outright call it a "franchise" is kind of hilarious, like you're supporting McDonalds.
I’ve never been able to consistently root for a team only for a few players. I want their side to win, but not because of the team but because of the person who is playing on it
But there is a limit in which someone would likely switch: if a franchise decided to rebrand, then move to another city, then turned over their roster, then their coaching staff and GM... many if not most of the original fanbase would switch to an entirely new team. Then you're dealing with a franchise of Theseus
I think it's just the primal tendency to identify with a group, and have your group compete with another group, win or lose. I think it's one of the lasting impressions of our evolution; I'm imagining cavemen in tribes going to war against other tribes for access to land, food, etc. and reveling in the social bonds they share with the other members of their tribes. I think televised sports is one of the best outlets for this behavioural feature of our species.
It's important to understand that, even if that's not the case anymore, most teams had a reason to exist than is bigger than the club itself. Barcelona for example is a club designed to promote Catalunya's Independence. And you have many clubs with political relations, etc., so it's natural that even with football you have fans from everywhere in the world that support them in the same way they look at foreign or national affairs in the political sense.
True. I became a fan of league 2 side Forest Green Rovers a few years ago because of their deep devotion to environmentalism and animal rights. It also felt nice to support a team much smaller than the team my dad raised me with (West Ham United). I know a few FGR fans online, but the experience of me supporting them is political, not historical or cultural. I also still like West Ham because my family does, because of the memories I have with it growing up, etc. The container idea and the easy to find instant community are good ideas in the video. Overall, as a fan of these 2 teams for different reasons, there are many motivations. This is a fascinating question
Other than location, people choose a team based on: 1. The team that is winning and dominating the league because people like to cheer on winners. 2. Their style of play when the team plays with a particularly attractive way. 3. They like a player or some players from the team and after those player(s) left they continue to support the team out of loyalty to nostalgia. Also, jumping ship is frowned upon by all fanbase so people generally don't do it.
I reckon 1-3 are more reasons why you might choose a club in the first place, but the point you made about people not wanting to jump ship is the main reason why they don't change teams from year to year. When you support a team you have a bond with other supporters and changing your mind once you're "in" is considered disloyal. Since the reasons for choosing are arbitrary in the first place, it's more offensive to the group if you change your allegiance since there's a real social cost and presumably little to be gained. It's basically like telling your friends you think another group of friends are more valuable to you and you're not going to see them as much because of it. When you watch a game and your team isn't involved you usually pick a side almost at random to support because otherwise it's hard to get invested. If you go to a game with a friend you'll probably back their team if you haven't got a particular reason not to, like a rivalry between their team and yours.
@@SineN0mine3 I think it depends on if you're brought up with it, or establish an interest yourself. From the UK, got into baseball, and chose a team to follow based on style of play, and one player in particular. Brought up in a football mad family, in a football mad country. All about location. The other factors don't affect choice of team, just emotional well being!
I think it's mostly about the play, watching the highs and lows when your team is playing and to witness which team would win after the emotional rollercoaster
I’m not a sports guy but another thing to consider is that sports betting is huge, a lot of people are cheering for “themselves” in a way, if the team they bet on wins, they win.
That’s a good point. Especially with the rise of fantasy football and the like, you get people cheering for rival players who they happen to have in their team. Kinda kills the spirit if I’m honest.
Often it's not about whether a player goes to a different team, but about how. If a player goes to a direct competitor, or if they are very eager to leave your club, that sucks. If a player gets pushed out the door, or has good reasons to want to leave, or goes to a club you respect, you feel more sympathy.
Here in Scandinavia we support the club we were born into. The only exception would be inherited support; IE supporting the team your parents taught you to support. If someone were to support another club they would be very looked down upon and would not be taken seriously. I was born into my team. It's a part of my heart that never could fade away, no matter the players, the leadership or the result (we're not winning shit). It's just a huge part of my culture, and as an extension, my identity. One thing that was never mentioned is the history. There's an extensive history both within the team and between it and other teams, both good and bad. It sounds weird for someone who's not into the culture, but there is definitely a lot of hate there. It's a lot like nationalism, and there are more similarities one could draw between them than just the history. For example most big cities in Europe has one politically left-leaning team and one that's leaning to the right, representing the working class VS the rich part of town. Going to a big match against your rival team is a feeling that's hard to describe. The adrenaline, the high spirit, the nervousness and, foremost, the comradery, is like going into battle. There's definitely some tribal (and I'll add masculine) gene kicking in from somewhere deep within. Now I'll just add that English football is a joke. There's no culture left in the EPL, it's just about money.
When you say English football is a joke, you mean the premier league, the English lower leagues are the purest form of football there is with proper fans. Our football pyramid also goes down far deeper than most, we had over 6000 watching yeovil v weymouth in the national league south (6th division).
I remember before I got into sports I always wondered why people cared so much. When the Toronto Raptors got that really good team in 2019, I got really into it. I guess I saw my Canadian city going big was exciting. Many of the major players like Kawhi were new and you grow on them
You’re supporting the concept essentially, my team wimbeldon were moved out of London to Milton Keynes and essentially no one moved to support them, instead starting our own team in 2002 with a similar name where they now play in the same league as MK
I grew up watching and playing football, but I couldn't really relate to all the die hard fans of any club supporting their team no matter what and all the anger attached to it. Of course it was a very simplified view of things because I was young. I loved the game itself though and all the possibilities of how you can use your feet (or other body parts) to controll a ball in almost unimaginable ways. Now I'm at a point where I find football more fascinating than almost anything, there is so much to it. There are so many interesting storylines of clubs or all the people attached to it (players, supporters, staff, owners), while the game itself has a lot of depth (tactics wise, how to optimize performance of players or entire clus and statistics). There are also a lot of politcal implications I find fascinating. I only support my national team in a more emotional way, but when they loose I cope with rationality to at least feel the beauty of the sport itself. What I'd also like to mention is the similarities between sports and movies or series. All of them are entertaining and telling a story. There are entire franchises like Star Wars or the Breaking Bad universe with movies and series connected to each other. What makes sports so fascinating to me is also, that in contrast to movies/series the demand for sports is constant. There is not even a question about it, there will be a new season of the Premier League or Champions League every year and people will eat it up. Movie franchises just loose it at some point, even the best ones, sports do not. There is a good video about it from 'Athletic Interest' (It's mostly about why sports are so profitable, that's one of the main reasons as far as I can recall)
It's the myths attached to the teams. Sometimes it's personal (your father supported the team, so it's a family thing), but often it is stories that have become associated with the club over time - some teams are seen as a working man's team, teams can represent outsiders, there are socialist teams and teams historically fascist, etc. Some examples: Glasgow Celtic is bound to Irish Republicanism and even Catholicism via the experience of Irish immigrants in Glasgow; Roma were long seen as the left-wing club to rival Lazio's far-right associations; Arsenal are a team who plays stylish football (even though the players and tactics change, the idea remains). Consider FC St. Pauli: People around the world wear their logo (Nike even released limited trainers featuring it) but they play in Germany's second division; it's all because they well known as a left-wing, inclusive club. Often it's only narratives (we're talking about clubs worth millions, if not billions) but we are the stories we tell ourselves.
Fans support teams located in areas they identify with through their current connections. It doesn't have to be related to their place of origin. It's a way to communally bond and a way for people to experience trials and tribulations and jubilation and ebullition together ... and to have a pint afterward.
I think a football team is similar to a nation in that people agree on a shared past (historical titles, wins, and rivalries) and imagine a shared future (trophies, new signings, and dominance)
The British term "support" seems like a much more accurate word than those used in American fandom. The amount of money these teams extract from their fans (and the rest of us through various tax breaks and subsidies) is truly staggering.
Hi Alex, sitting here listening to the two of you I am hearing repeated references to a favourite topic of mine, it is this popularity of security by association, hope expectation and belief. At the same time there are moments when I see something happening in the background, that extraordinary eruption of enthusiasm and emotion that happens in crowds at sport events where no matter what the personal choices of the people there the tide of feeling takes over, for this to work I am certain that the focus of their attention, the team they favour or the game is what triggers them but is not the causal agent!, that it would seem comes from inside each person that gets so amplified when others around you share the experience of such emotion. This takes me straight back to what I think are the underlying causal agents, we are all composed of a complex combination of biological and learned attributes many of them can be contradictory and conflicting, while one only thinks or feels one thing at a time a quite rapid sequence can often occur. All of this is inherent biology and now that I better understand just how tedious and difficult rational thinking really is for us poor souls it doers not surprise me at all that we may be endowed with alternative attributes that can be used as substitute for thought, here comes the application of imagination, so we all have a considerable capacity for guessing answers to interesting questions, we can also work things out rationally, what we are not very good at is telling which is which!. This leaves us with our heads full of all sorts of ideas some of which are well related to reality but many are not. I am considering all this in an environmental context where we actually have considerably greater capacity for many sorts of effort than is actually really needed, this is necessary if only to satisfy Ashby's Law, what we cannot do is just switch off our brain because it is doing nothing useful! it chunters away in the background all the time and if you have chosen to believe that what it comes out with is always related to reality you are in big trouble!, the fact that all of the output is in truth just imagination and fantasy that then has to be very critically sorted through to get rid of the rubbish, to only retain the bits that can be identified in material reality, like cups and shoes and trees and birds, any empirixcal evidence will do, absence of any evidence won't. That level of mental discipline if way beyond most of us most of the time!. Cheers, Richard.
Hey Richard, I hope you don't mind, but I read a couple of your comments I can see, this one also caught my eye out if the 3, but not as much as the first one. I think I will take a closer look at these mirror neurones and imagine a crowd when there is msss activation... Let me know your thoughts, cheers Dion
I genuinely find it mental how we unanimously lie to children about Santa. Yet, I know I’m going to continue to do it when I have my own kids. A part of me is reluctant but at the same time I don’t want them to ‘miss out’.
The way I see it, the realization that Santa is fictional prompts children to question and critically evaluate information from authority figures, fostering healthy skepticism from an early age. The revelation also acts as a rite of passage, imparting secret knowledge to older children and contributing to their development of critical and independent thinking skills.
@@caoilte8097 See, I don’t quite agree that it ‘aids’ critical thinking because we (adults) don’t encourage kids to find out Santa isn’t real. We just find more creative ways to deceive them.
@@rabidL3M0NSmaybe my childhood was different in a lot of ways but when my parents sat me down and told me santa wasnt real i was extremely hurt. i dont think it aided in my critical thinking but it definitely made me feel hurt and like everything was one big lie which was some incredible foreshadowing looking back
we have a saying in sweden, "spelare kommer och går, men laget består". Roughly players come and go but the team is constant/still stands. A big part is to be apart of something bigger than yourself, than life i guess.
2:30 YES absolutely I would still support the team I was initially supporting, no matter the players. there's not just "wearing a different t-shirt", they are wearing it because they represent that team. When some new players are introduced, sometimes I don't remember all their names, but I'm still supporting their team, because team sports is about the team, not the individuals. You grow to like the individuals as you follow the team closely. I don't think that argument makes a huge amount of sense.
@@saqlaq96 hmm okay, but I would say that cheering for the team is more common atleast. Usually sports fans I've met do that. There may be different perspectives though
It is a total in-group out group thing. Most people are supporters because there friends are, and then they make new friends within the team. Plus there is something in a team that resonates with you. One thing for example is FC Liverpool singing "You'll never walk alone". I can see how that resonates with a lot of people. As long as you are a Liverpool fan, you never walk alone. There are some fans who support a team because they are very successful and they like to win. There are others who like that "there team" is very open minded, while others come from a working class background and that speaks to some supporters.
The arrogance of young intellectuals who purport to be at a loss for something they've never truly cared for or even sought to understand in the first place... and yet their deductions still require applause.
In my country, Greece during the '80s in school, history lesson was a manifesto of emotional connection with the past. Especially with the Byzantine Empire and the fall of Constaninopole to the Ottoman Empire back in 1453. A football team with the name AEK was founded by ex citizens of the city of Constantinopole in 1925. So the connection with the glorious past as it was instilled to me through school made a fun of this team. Today i couldn't care less about that team or football in general. But it's interesting that football can be used as a guide of citizens towards specific political and ideological directions, without even realizing it before it happens.
Interesting question and rarely discussed. I think there are a variety of reasons for supporting a team. The big clubs/teams, usually get a huge backing because of their success which normally entails the best players in the sport. Smaller teams, with not much success, have loyalists fans based on hometown/local team,die-hards. Sometimes, someone will introduce us to a sport for the first time and we become supporters of that first team we witnessed. Many switch clubs in following certain players. Ronaldo is a good example. the reasons are many,so they are all valid.
I believe what the team represents here is not just the players or Manager but things like history, achievements, legacy. The name of the club (Manchester United ), their nickname (Red Devils ), stadium name ( theatre of Dreams) all play a big factor. So even if the players are switched none of these change. So I'm still inclined to the team.
Well, I thought about this as a football fan myself and it helps to think of a team as an almost living entity and all of it's players, managers, and owners as it's attributes that make up it's past and present .. You are supporting this 'entity' based on at least one of it's past and/or present attributes and based on it's past challenges and struggles that it overcame and you root for it in it's upcoming challenges ... For example, I fell in love with Real Madrid after seeing Cristiano Ronaldo playing for the team and decided to support it (totally arbitrary) then when witnessing it's challenges and how it overcame them pre and post Ronaldo it made me root for this entity in future endeavors even after the star player that made me watch the Madrid games left.
I am looking at this as a North American but to me supporting a team is more about a shared social experience. Sunday comes around, friends gather, share food, drink and cheer for 'their' team. It's fun social experience. Of course, we admire the skill, strength and endurance of the athletes too. I wonder if Alex has the same trouble understanding about non team sports?
This starts to become different in a one on one like boxing. Many boxers have fans that eventually took up the sport of boxing and challenged their idol.
I love Rugby, and my friends back in South Africa were quite upset when I was shouting for Japan when they beat the Springboks. I just really love the nuances of the game, and even though I have a specific set of teams that I usually support, at the end of the day, I just really love seeing a team of skilled players work as a team overcome their opposition. This approach has me supporting the underdogs many times, purely because I want to seem them tip the scales, make some amazing plays to surprise everyone. Question I had while watching this: Should (or Can?) you compare the psychology (with regard to the spectators) of a sport like Rugby or Football be compared with a game like Chess?
The great thing about sports is that there are so many different levels of fandom a person can have, for example I have a favorite team in all of the major professional and college sports, however I don’t care for them all on the same level, in basketball I’m a Knicks fan and for ncaa I’m a Syracuse fan, although I love both teams I have a much stronger fandom for Syracuse because they’re the team from the city I was born in and live 10 mins away from, plus I have friends who go to that college and I’ve seen many of the current and former players out and about in the city, that kinda proximity to the team just creates a different level loyalty
I once saw my former employer rooting for his home team while watching a recording of game played days earlier. It must be supernatural support if it's not bound by time or space.
Sometimes its players, sometimes its family/friends, sometimes its choosing to follow the rival of tour familys team, sometimes its random. But its a way to blow off steam, its a way to feel included with each other.
I’m from Canada and I support Liverpool because my dad suppports Liverpool, even though he is from Bristol. He started supporting Liverpool due to his uncle being scouser, who actually had connections with the team. In the early 80s my dad actually got to meet the players at the club including Ian Rush, Kenny Danglish, Alan Kennedy etc so ig that’s why I support them.
In South Africa, a big rugby game is probably the only time in which every culture, race, ethnic group unites. On game day everyone is wearing our Springbok shirts, hooting in the streets, making small talk with strangers, every bar, pub and restaurant is PACKED. We take our rugby seriously. Because of our awful segregated history, it’s such an incredible time to share the same vision or goal with other Saffas, no matter who they are or where they live or sit on the socioeconomic spectrum. The movie ‘Invictus’ illustrates this quite well. Ek wil net sê, VIER rugbywêreldbeker-oorwinnings, Bokke, julle behoort trots te wees op julleself. Suid-Afrika is agter jou!!
I think people support the institution that comes behind, in my case i support Liverpool, not because i like the players, but because i´ve fallen in love with the Anfield atmosphere, cause of the philosophy of playstyle that they have, because of their values as an institution. For me and for all the liverpool fans, it doesn´t matter if our defense is good or bad, if our winger is still Salah. I believe that you are seeing it from an over individualistic view, people support a team that they feel connected or associated with, some may support their local team, other could support the most winning and others might support, like me, a team, that in some sense, they feel like represents them. I hope this serves as a good explanation. P.S: Sorry if some things are not well put, this may be because english is not my first language.
There was a study done to discover what was the number one reason for selecting a team. Most people’s instincts would say the team their father supported was the most common…however it was actually whichever team was most successful during that persons youth
I accept that my emotional connection to the success of my chosen football club is completely irrational. Trying to explain why it has happened is difficult but here are some facts... I started watching football with my dad when i was 7. My dad supported that team because of a disaster that happened in the 50s where many of the club's players died. When I saw my team do well, my dad was happy, even ecstatic and over time I too felt this way. When I go to watch live matches there is group solidarity with the thousands of other fans there - theres also tribalism. Im not religious, I am an atheist and a humanist, but I accept that in some was football does for me what religion does for others. Association with a football club is part of supporter's identity - clubs wouldn't exist without fans.
Yep. Alex is really cringe for obsessing over how irrational it is, and the people getting over defensive and pretending sports fandom is really rational are cringe too. Why can’t people just enjoy life?
fun fact... this kinda happened once. A basketball player played for both teams during the same game once. SecretBase has an episode of "weird rules" all about it.
I personally think most of us who don't belong to that exact region actually support success only and then build connections with success. CASE I :- Ok, let's say you support man. utd as an Indian because they were the first club that started this international fandom thing and they were also one of the best if not the best at that time, so due to their success you started supporting them and the players that played for it. CASE II:- You liked some player and he joined that club and you started supporting it, which eventually comes from the success of the player. Let's take my case, I support Tottenham(I am not British) cause of Harry Kane who I supported from WC 2018 when I just started watching football, so this made me a Tottenham fan which I still am even after he left for BAYERN. See similarly people will never support Bournemouth(let say) cause they aren't successful l( I don't know their history) and don't have any significant player as such . But the way Dominic solanke is playing some might support Bournemouthh. People appreciate man. utd. success from the times they didn't have any idea that the club existed. whuch basically shows success. At last I we humans are just Glory hunters, we will go with the successful ones of the era , with the ones that are one of the best if not the beat . We support nothing but success and why do we support success of the people or club which don't have anything to do with us? Because we want to be the part of success somehow , even do we didn't contribute even a bit in it. we just like success and after we are associated with club we are supporting the past success of the club with which we associated ourselves with. Sorry for bad english
The other way you can look at it is the ship of Theseus is just a place holder name for this collection of items and functions etc, when some piece is added it becomes part if the ship and when subtracted it becomes formerly part of the ship of theseus, if you construct the ship again is will be the ship of theseus constructed from the former parts of the ship of theseus which can be short handed to the ship of theseus until it needs clarifying. Essentially you can add placeholders for sums and parts to describe things and we can apply this to a football team also.
As a villa fan I used to love Christen Benteke, then I watched him play for Belgium against England and it was a really weird feeling wanting him to play badly
Paraphernalia wise, it is much cheaper to stick with a team, regardless of the players, then you don’t have to buy new kit whenever your favorite players get traded.
Seinfeld once had a joke that addressed this very question. He described how our loyalty towards a particular team is fundamentally arbitrary, for all the reasons discussed in the video-the players are always changing, the team can move to another city, et cetera. The only thing that stays the same is the uniforms, ergo, we are essentially rooting for laundry.
Hahah alex sports and football is one of the greatest things in my life.....my dad is a supporter of chelsea and i became one. I must tel you apart from passing my medical exams chelsea have given me the best moments of my life. In my country, football is a tribe, its a community. 🇳🇬🇳🇬
I got sober about 20 months ago. I've been looking back at my life and wondering where I went wrong. It seems that a part of it has been an unwillingness to engage. I've always had a hard time figuring out what gives people the desire to participate. The will to win. People seem to fall into activities so willingly, and I usually didn't get how they could be so passionate about winning a game. It's always seemed to me, contrived and arbitrary. I've been wondering about the philosophy of sports deeply for months now. This video, I hope, will examine exactly that. Thanks in advance.
How i relate to certain teams is mainly because i like certain players. Sometimes, it's the style at which those players play the game, sometimes its how the conduct themselves during the game in regards to sportsmanship, and sometimes its how they act as people when they arent playing the game. So if all the players i enjoy watching and supporting switched to the other team then i would be happy with either team winning.
Supporting the raptors because you like dinosaurs is a completely valid reason in my eyes
I used to root for the Dallas Cowboys, not because I'm texan, but because that blue start on a silver helmet looks awesome!
Rawr
As good of a reason as any
I'm definitely guilty of liking a team just because I like their uniforms 😅
😂
Alex trying to to grasp the concept of sport is hilarious to me
@JuiceTubes your brain is as dry and empty as a sand dune in the midst of the Sahara
@JuiceTubes he's doing the JP thing lol... "what is what? what is is? what is ball?"
To @MO-rl9gl
In the same vein, I am eagerly looking forward to Dog the Bounty Hunter's critique and analysis of Wagnerian opera and Hulk Hogan's commentary on the collecting of fine 18th Century English porcelain.
Just take a ball and kick it without thinking! Is it too much?
@@oosmanbeekawoo this whole discussion is not about those who have fun playing it. (without getting paid) It is about the idiots in the stadium identifying with their own disgusting group dynamics
I think that most people support “the idea” of the team. That’s why you can change almost everything and people will still cheer, because it’s all in their heads
What if "Chelsea football club" decided to change their name to "Mhelsea football club"? Would that change your opinion of them? What if they decided to change it to "Maelsea football club"? "Manlsea"? "Mancsea"? "Manchea"? "Manches"? "Manchester"? Manchester football club?
@@Happydrumstick93 Can’t happen at Chelsea because fans own the name and pitch, look up the Chelsea Pitch Owners
@@TwiddleJones You mean "Manchester Pitch Owners" right? ;)
@@Happydrumstick93Nope, it’s Chelsea pitch owners, this shouldn’t be difficult to grasp
I agree, supporting a team just makes spectating more fun. So its about the idea that you have a club to support
The teams represent themselves. It's not an empty idea, each team has a rich history, legacy, and ongoing story that's uniquely intertwined with the lives of the fans that enjoy them, and the players and staff that run them.
It's even more than that though because these teams also represent the cities, states, or countries they're based in, furthering those historical roots.
It's all quite beautiful actually.
It’s a boring and empty idea…
You can think its boring but it’s objectively not a empty idea. @@danielalbertogonzalezsoria4122
@@danielalbertogonzalezsoria4122very subjective stance
"a rich history, legacy and ongoing story" Are you describing a culture, a civilisation, a hero or just a mere sports team ? That's over exaggerated x)
@@camillepetit9623 I'm describing long running institutions that have become pillars of entertainment and culture for many communities. "Mere" doesn't adequately describe the impact and meaning that sports have in people's lives.
It's more complex than Alex realises. Different fans have a different relationship with a club. Personally my entire youth was spent supporting a club with a history of losing simply because I was brainwashed by my family that that club is "my club". The memories I have of that team became memories doing something together with my father "cheering for _our_ team". If I meet someone of a similar age to me that also supports my club, we know instantly that we share a lot of memories of highs and lows, and that is our bond which we'd otherwise be strangers.
There's other fans that picked their team as a child or even an adult because they want to fit it. But their support may be limited to answering "club y" when asked who they support despite never watching matches.
If a player leaves a club, they're considered dead in 99% of cases. There's a few exceptions like some Spurs fans keeping an eye on Harry Kane's performances at Bayern Munich, but that's just some fans and it's an exceptional case of a local lad becoming arguably the greatest ever player for that team.
It’s still completely arbitrary at the end of the day as to why cheer for one team over another
beautifully put +++
Alex was last picked in PE
And probably can’t do 1 pull up
That's just not true. Most people don't have a player for leaving. They hate a player for the manner in which they leave. If a player joins the rivals of a team or something like that, they're going to be viewed as dead. But in most cases, fans understand that players just move to other teams.
This actually happened. Wimbledon FC relocated to Milton Keynes in 2003 but kept the players and the name “Wimbledon” until 2004, when it renamed itself MK Dons.
Clearly the supporters were not supporting the *players* or the *brand* Wimbledon FC because once it moved to Milton Keynes they abandoned the club in droves and eventually came together to form the new AFC Wimbledon.
It’s hard to quantify exactly what they *were* supporting but this real life example of this thought experiment shows at least that it’s not the players or the brand.
It's like being a part of a country. You support its legacy, the people that come and go to lead it, its community, and most importantly, you support and take pride in the notion that as fans, you are a part of the community and legacy.
When MK Dons formed, the community, along with its historical heritage was absolutely abolished while the "leaders" moved to a completely different location. That would be the equivalent to a President / King and their government just ditching the country's people to form another country of the same name - the people would clearly not have a reason the be supportive of that new country and would be incentivised to create another country to fill the gaping hole left behind.
The funniest and worst part about that was that the MK Dons owner had the gall to say "we have won the FA Cup once".
Wait wait wait... Hold on... Stop the bus... Do you mean The Crazy Gang. THE CRAZY GANG! One of the most infamous and famous cup winning teams of the 20th century?
At least the MK Dons owner saw the light and returned Wimbledon FC's history back to them [AFC Wimbledon].
As Jerry Seinfeld famously said in one of his routines, "Loyalty to any one sports team is pretty hard to justify, because the players are always changing; the team could move to another city. You're actually rooting for the clothes when you get right down to it."
Well, if you were to boil it right down to the residue it's about 'regulated competition'.
It's evolution is a responce.
Teams also change the clothes design from time to time, and some times even the logo.
We know that the players will leave, kits and badge will change, but the club is bigger than all these ephemeral things
@@messicomps344, but what is it?
Even the supporters change over time.
There are teams that are over one hundred years old, they probably don't have many of the original supporters.
Boo, different shirt, boo!
11:00 Alex you hit the core of it. It’s the instant community. Especially in modern society where there is so many ways we are fractured. Sports give us a way to find people and have an instant commonality, a way to bond together with strangers in your space. A sense of communal legend, stories, and shared experience.
Yes there is also the appreciation for the physical display, there is no shortchanging that, but it serves a bridge that can cross all barriers of class, generation, and even political
Ideology.
I’m a Cubs fan, and sharing the experience of what that meant with family is something I can not undersell the preciousness of. Being with my uncle at the game that sent them to the World Series in 2016, ending a 108 year old drought, is one of the most magical experiences ever. The instant elation, and communal outpouring of joy is something that can not be put into words. In an instant that stadium was 42,000 brothers and sisters in pure joy.
Yes the players are now almost all gone from that team. There is almost nothing that connects the team today to that one from 2016, other than that community.
My sense is that the supporters are supporting supporters. they support each other. the most unchanging thing about a team IS their fans.
also yes, I agree with this comments about “essence” here
Well my team has came last 2 years in a row now so let me tell you the fans are definitely supporting each other, because we've given up on the players 😂
I love when you're watching sports as a fan and you side with your own team whenever the ball goes out of bounds or a fall happens. No one is sure what just happened yet until you see the replay, but you just side with your team in the moment because it benefits you. It's a beautiful moment that highlights the tribalism associated with team support that frequently happens and gets you out of your chair YELLING.
Haha, that's interesting to read! I think I stopped enjoying football for that exact reason - the objective truth comes second to subjective interpretation, which is the root of so many problems we see in the world :)
Hate to be this guy but sports fanatics yelling and getting rowdy always disturbed me. Even as a kid they seemed like barbarians - and my parents were just that. Not that I desire to take their fun away just because it was bothering. Of course not. But I've never had the capacity to relate to this behavior.
@@phillystevesteak6982 I’m not a fan of any particular team but I think the fun is in taking a moment to stop pretending we’re above our barbaric nature.
All about pressure on the officials, probably works to some extent. The players from both sides appeal for everything even if it's obvious, the crowd follow suit.
Have been to some games where "we" think we've been hard done by, and when the referee makes a "right" decision the crowd goes sarcastically wild as if a goal's been scored.
Different dynamic watching on a screen, as what actually happened gets shown pretty quickly. I'm not sure knowing you've been hard done by is better than just thinking it though. My Dad's generation lived off the righteous indignation of claiming they were hard done by in games of yore, with no evidence either way.
@@phillystevesteak6982 Totally get that. Wish that's something I'd learned earlier. What the hell it looks like to the uninitiated!
Went round with a large group of friends "home and away" for several years following our club. While we knew we were harmless, those who couldn't tell the difference between passionate fans and hooligans had no idea.
I'm glad you raised the issue. this is one of things that I am fascinated about.
I am Manchester United fan. I'm not from England ( am in Ethiopia, Africa), I don't exactly know how and why I begin to support the club.
the owners, the manager and the players that used to play for the club when I began to support the club are not there now, not one.
And yet I support the club seriously.
I cherish when they win and feel really bad when they lose.
It is soo fascinating !
It is fascinating, I'm a rugby league supporter, my team has come last 2 years in a row, I'm so used to watching my team lose that almost all emotion has left me when I watch the game now, I kind of expect to lose now which makes coping with losing easier, I actually laugh sometimes when we lose.
I havent lived in the same state for 20yrs so ive been taking a 2hr flight at least once a year to watch them play at our home ground that I've been going to since I was in nappies.
The strange thing about my club is its a merged club, so it's not even my original club anymore, its 2 different clubs that merged together but I support it just as much as i supported my original club.
It is strange, everything about the club has changed bar one of the fields they play at which I'm very attached to.
If you think about it logically it doesn't make sense yet I'm still 100% invested, I'm rusted on for life.
i never found soccer appealing (southampton UK brit here) but what beats me these days is hardly anyone form any club is from the "name of the team" they represent, they are from all over the world, paid for and playing as a business, not a "hometown team" of people from the area where the team gets it's name from.
Ye arsenal degafi teqebeyalesh abate😁, last year was the happiest I've been in a while( banbelawim lol) and the amount this affects my life is fascinating and a bit concerning.
@@crazyprayingmantis5596a fellow Wests Tigers sufferer?
@@ryanw2170
Oh Yeah 🐯
I actually had never thought about it. My football passion was inherited by my parents, all of my family are supporters of our own hometown club, SC Bastia.
a bit like religion then?
@@macdougdougIt's very much the traditional fan dynamic, just like my friends and family. Used to be vital to all clubs, now the big ones see their global TV fans as more important. Still the same local family links the smaller the clubs get, at least in the UK where there's centuries of this sort of local rivalry.
Possibly the closest thing to religion that isn't "proper" religion that I've experienced. Born into it, devotion beyond reason, gather together and worship at fixed times.
The two sets of fans interact, with certain songs met with expected responses. The idols perform the ritual, the choir roars their approval.
Ancient religious tribalist warfare basically. A few protagonists compete while the rest of the village shout, scream, jump up and down, and demonstrate a warlike posture while just being part of the chorus.
@@jimb9063 It very much reminds of that, especially when our "rival" team is the only other Corsican team in French football. It's like we are embracing a tribal need to differentiate ourselves from the other Corsican team (and thus town) through some kind of ritualistic challenge.
To note, I think challenges can be great. I don't necessarily think it is a bad thing. Our teams are small clubs and they act almost like "social clubs" or how Church used to act. There are minutes of silence for dead supporters, their names are announced, you get to see people from your town and talk to them when you wouldn't otherwise (etc....)
@@LaRévolutionSociale Wow that's quite a unique rivalry. Another Med island to visit!
Yes I agree it's generally a good thing.
Like a lot of human creations, the group dynamic is both good and bad.
Football can usually be a safe way for the group to show anger at "The Other" in ways which can't be done otherwise in society. Can be taken too far obviously, fortunately not too often these days.
@@macdougdougIs there nothing you support or at part of in your life that you haven’t rationalised?
Sports fandom is about history and community. Alex touches on the community aspect. But also sports fandom gives and emotional resonce to the past. Buying into the community fandom generates historical markers of events that become a shared expiernce. Me telling you how vividly i remember sitting in a bar when aaron boone hit the home run off Wakefield means nothing to most people, but if you are and were a Boston Red Sox fan you have a shared understanding and connection based oj that.
Interesting video - I agree with your final conclusion that it's really about the supporters/fans themselves that give it meaning, creating these communities and rivalries to fulfill their inner tribalism.
Sports is just about feeling something. It's a source of emotions, a microcosm of life, there to tell the fans something to feel to distract them from their normal boring lives.
you are correct sir!
I agree, it’s a form of entertainment similar to a movie or tv show
@@fivestarsingh Agreed. And for me it is on a different level than a TV show or movie. I don't think I've ever jumped out of my chair cheering at something that happened in a movie, but I have watching sports. I think it's the unpredictable and unscripted nature of sports that draws people in.
I started watching football from Manchester United's game. I immediately fell in love with the kit colour ( red's my favourite colour. I then started to read their history, achievements, more games. And that's how I became a united fan.
Yes ! Throughout the video and in the comments I was waiting on someone saying the obvious - history . history applies to clubs like Man United , Liverpool, Arsenal etc cos they have history and have served up iconic moments to sports and culture more generally . Alex asking ‘ what is Chelsea ‘ did make me laugh though. It’s a fair point
After surprising us by a GTA video, a football video drops xd
Hahah
It is the idea and aura of the team that resonates with people. So many individuals are patriotic about their home country, even though a sovereign nation is really just a shared idea. For example, take the New York Yankees. They are the winningest team in Major League Baseball with 27 championships. The Yankees embody a culture of winning and excellence that resonates with fans. This is what fans are passionately cheering for when it comes to their favorite sports team. Each team harnesses qualities and a culture that is specific to that team. Fans see these qualities as an extension of themselves, and therefor find it worthwhile to cheer for
I had this exact conversation with my then-girlfriend. I even had the exact example as your first one in the video. I'm not sure if it's a common objection or example, but I was really surprised to hear the exact same example given that I don't remember hearing that objection before I made it.
Weirdly or not, I wasn't into following sports, while she was an avid supporter of one particular team.
Her response to the first thing you've said in this video (players switching teams) was this:
*"The team I support has history. Many legendary moments happened and many legendary players were playing for this very team, and this is not a super high-paying team. They played for the money, of course, but that was not the primary reason. Many players on this team, current and past, could've been paid more if they had accepted the higher offers that were indeed on the table. I support the idea of an underdog, not playing primarily for the money, being able to, hopefully once again, win the Champions League as they did in 1991 (now you know the name of the team).*
*Especially because in 1991, a war started, and it was amazing to hear that the guys didn't stop playing for the team, and they competed at the highest level and managed to do the unthinkable. If you were to compare the earnings of each player on our team at that time with those of their opponents, they shouldn't have been able to stand a chance. Yet there they were. And they won it!*
*I support that."*
I thought that made sense. I guess it's kind of "hero story" with some additional trinkets attached to it.
Red star Belgrade? 😂
Here is my husband's answer. We are talking about italian soccer.
"I would keep supporting my team even if all the changes you suggest occur. But it depends on how quickly they happen. I still have to be able to recognize my team and connect it to its story" -very similar to what your girlfriend said-" of course if between june and september you made ALL those changes including the name of the team, I wouldn't recognize my team, but most of all, nobody else would. Our enemies would no longer hate the team. "
So would you stop whatching soccer, I asked.
He laughed and said, "i would have to look for the most hated team in Italy and support them."
So, to him, it's mostly a social thing, I guess
A feel good story. But I am going to be critical: The same tribalism was also responsible for the war.
@@MrRollingEgo that is absolutely true. I would say sport is a make-belief war
The amount of time/money personally invested. It’s a story, a tv soap. A club is a ever evolving character we’re attached too but we know it’s past better than other characters. It’s familiarity, comfort and excitement. It’s that racist grandparent you love even if their rough around the edges.
Sports are about being in a tribe. Belonging to a community. You support your city. You identify with the history, the culture, the common features, you have rival teams you can collectively hate. It's about being accepted into a group for just wearing the colors and showing up to cheer. It's handed down in families for generations. I don't thinks it's all bad, in fact there is a lot of good aspects about being a sports fan.
Yeah but a lot of people just randomly support teams that aren’t where they live and they have no connection to the city, which is what this whole video was about
There is some good sociology of sport. Worth anyones time.
Im always quick to highlight the history and development of sport in the context and in taden with the history and development of law. And our general drift away from violent ways of dealing with our problems and interactions.
Do u know any good books or articles on the topic
At school a lot of kids picked the best teams at the time instead of the local team and it just stuck. Glory hunting basically.
On the other end Wimbledon (in London) were bought and moved to Milton Keynes ~50 miles away. The old fan base got together and created a new local club.
I think it's usually because those are the teams playing the most attractive style of football at the time and they make you fall in love with the sport.
I’m a big fan of the Chicago Cubs, partly because that’s the first sports team I was exposed to, but mostly because it’s a team that’s been embraced as the “lovable losers.” I really value loyalty and compassion, and there’s something about a community that still supports a team that didn’t win for over a century that embodies those values. So to me, supporting the cubs brings not only a sense of community, but a sense of community that shares my values of loyalty and compassion. We love those cute little cubbies!
The missing answer in this conversation is the emotional attachment between the fans and the team/sport. In the pencil example, it's clear why people reacted to the breaking of the pencil. Because he humanized it and the people listening developed a new emotional attachment to it, only for it to be destroyed. You watch football because you and your dad would watch it growing up. Your friends at school talk about it. The same way you celebrate Christmas, because it's tradition. It's just what you do.
As stupid as almost all the others....
Many big Premier League clubs have massive support world-wide, but most fans who attend matches are from that city. My best friend in Primary School (in North London) was a Spurs fan and his dad took us to a match so I started supporting them. We support players as long as they part of the Football Club. It's the entity of the "Football Club" - in my case Tottenham - that we support and by extension we support the players as long as they are serving this entity.
I'm trying to look at this from an outsider point of view. My views on a sport I don't know that well are probably formed by random headlines, and culture based ironic stereotypes in TV/film.
Given that, it's no surprise that people might think all football is like how the 2 or 3 biggest teams operate, with worldwide fans, billions of pounds, and international players.
The world is divided by those who know why Hartlepool are called The Monkey Hangers, and those that didn't even know Hartlepool had a football team.
You picked the wrong North london team. 😂😂
@@joachimpetersen2301 There is only one North London team and that's Spurs, not Woolwich 😜
@@HassanRadwan133audi cup legends
I am a massive sports fan, and I find its primitive underpinnings absolutely ludicrous. Viewing things from a purely logical lens has curtailed my enjoyment to a degree, but I'm always sure to feel a rush of ecstasy whenever Liverpool smash Man Utd. Some things just can't be explained.
Several studies have shown that fans hormonal stress levels can reach that of the players on the pitch during a game. We really do feel connected. I can also agree with satisfaction from beating Manu U. 0-0 at Anfield left me down for days!
@@John_B55I am often more nervous when watching than I am when playing a sport myself.
You're all stupid
I've felt similar, thinking about it endlessly always ending up with the same answer. But it hasn't taken away the excitement AT ALL for me, even tho I can't explain it. But I quite like that, the world would be boring without some mystery. So just enjoy it, accept that it simply is and has no pure logical answer.
Not everything has to have a logical explanation. Some things are just fun, and you’re allowed to have fun.
Sports is not about the team it’s about the fan. Being a fan is to be part of a tribe.
For shure, I believe sports are more a way of group indentification then the sport by itself
This is a topic to discuss with Joe Schmid, the football philosopher 😅
Yes. :))
Alex actually spoke a bit about him not understanding people's affinity to sports and being bewildered by it in a video with him
I'd say a lot from school. I supported Blackburn rovers at school because my best friend did. Switched to Newcastle when Shearer moved as I admired him. Haven't followed footy since I was 14 though.
Alex you are about 3 decades behind Seinfeld on this. He points out that really fans are all just cheering for laundry.
😂
1:40 I tend to follow players rather than teams. It's their individual skill that makes the game entertaining for me.
I have thought about these questions ad nauseum. I find it amusing that spokespeople of a professional team would refer to the team as "Your [team name]". I guess that when I pay admission, or watch a commercial on TV when the game is broadcast, I have paid the owner for the right to refer to the team as "my [team name]".
It’s your team as it’s the team you support? I’ve only ever heard Americans make this bizarre arguement.
Is saying my school bizarre? You don’t own the school but clearly it’s the school you go to.
@@acksawblack That's close to an air-tight argument, but not quite. You actually _go_ to the school. If I were on a team, I would refer to it as "my team". If I were in the stands rooting for the team , I would not make that reference.
I view this through the lens of attachment theory. The deep connection one builds with Chelsea FC provides a secure base (a platform to push off from) a safe haven (something reliable to return to that will always be there). Supporters will seek proximity to the team via news and keeping up to date with transfers. They will also suffer withdrawal during off season.
In this sense, you might argue that avidly supporting a football team (the most fervent of supporters) can share the qualities of an addiction.
You’re supporting the essence of the team, the institution itself.
It is the place. It’s the relationship you’ve built with the team that you’ve been introduced to (usually by your dad). You’re supporting the badge. You’re supporting the history of the team and all the previous great teams of the past who played in the same shirt.
I think if it’s something you haven’t experienced first hand, it might be confusing, but real football fans know the differences between a “glory-hunter” or tourist type fan, and a real, stalwart supporter.
bullshit.... what is the essence? the essence of anything? Who would define what the essence of anything would be? God? Or a dictator?
You are a born slave.
This is bang on, I’m not surprised Alex couldn’t grasp it as someone who isn’t into sports, but it’s very obvious to any legitimate fan.
@@jamesrutterford576 you are mistaking the art of inquiry for not understanding, likely because you have no clue about the former. Note that fan comes from fanatic, and a fanatic by definition does not understand anything. And you certainly, as you demonstrated already, are someone who is lacking several levels of abstraction in his "thinking".
@@monnoo8221 Alright mate, cheers for that word salad. Alex, for all his brilliance, simply failed to quite grasp what is obvious about football fan culture only to those immersed in it. Not every process of struggling to understand something can be defended with the term “art of enquiry”. Sometimes people just don’t quite hit the nail on the head, and his lake of engagement with team sport was quite obvious in his reasoning.
I believe I do not “lack several layers of abstraction in my thinking”, as someone with a first-class degree in philosophy from one of the UKs best universities, but thank you for that diagnosis.
@@monnoo8221No he has an actual clear lack of understanding. Comments under this video are some of the most self-masturbatory overly verbose and meandering I have ever seen.
Well educated people explain themselves succinctly and don’t presume their readers have brain damage.
Watching RUclips philosophers and having a 2:1 from a polytechnic doesn’t make you an enlightened thinker it just makes you type like you have a pole up your arse alongside a thesaurus to overcompensate 😂
Two guys realise that sport isn’t the be all and end all of life. Well done. Everyone else knew that. Doesn’t mean it isn’t meaningful for people.
You root for the franchise. Not the name, not the logo, but the ethereal concept of the franchise that continues through time.
one does not 'root for a franchise', one supports a team, at least in the civilized world
What if a franchise stole money from your city than moved away? Franchise is definitely not it.
The term "franchise" is horrendous. Even if it's realistically true even for football in England, the fact Americans just outright call it a "franchise" is kind of hilarious, like you're supporting McDonalds.
I’ve never been able to consistently root for a team only for a few players. I want their side to win, but not because of the team but because of the person who is playing on it
But there is a limit in which someone would likely switch: if a franchise decided to rebrand, then move to another city, then turned over their roster, then their coaching staff and GM... many if not most of the original fanbase would switch to an entirely new team. Then you're dealing with a franchise of Theseus
I think it's just the primal tendency to identify with a group, and have your group compete with another group, win or lose. I think it's one of the lasting impressions of our evolution; I'm imagining cavemen in tribes going to war against other tribes for access to land, food, etc. and reveling in the social bonds they share with the other members of their tribes.
I think televised sports is one of the best outlets for this behavioural feature of our species.
It's important to understand that, even if that's not the case anymore, most teams had a reason to exist than is bigger than the club itself. Barcelona for example is a club designed to promote Catalunya's Independence. And you have many clubs with political relations, etc., so it's natural that even with football you have fans from everywhere in the world that support them in the same way they look at foreign or national affairs in the political sense.
Hala Madrid!
@@AlTarif Are you stupid or something?
True. I became a fan of league 2 side Forest Green Rovers a few years ago because of their deep devotion to environmentalism and animal rights. It also felt nice to support a team much smaller than the team my dad raised me with (West Ham United).
I know a few FGR fans online, but the experience of me supporting them is political, not historical or cultural. I also still like West Ham because my family does, because of the memories I have with it growing up, etc. The container idea and the easy to find instant community are good ideas in the video.
Overall, as a fan of these 2 teams for different reasons, there are many motivations. This is a fascinating question
@@TiagoFerreira-zp9giWhy would you ask that?
As a raptors fan who is a fan as I’m live near Toronto, I completely agree with your reasoning
Other than location, people choose a team based on:
1. The team that is winning and dominating the league because people like to cheer on winners.
2. Their style of play when the team plays with a particularly attractive way.
3. They like a player or some players from the team and after those player(s) left they continue to support the team out of loyalty to nostalgia.
Also, jumping ship is frowned upon by all fanbase so people generally don't do it.
I reckon 1-3 are more reasons why you might choose a club in the first place, but the point you made about people not wanting to jump ship is the main reason why they don't change teams from year to year.
When you support a team you have a bond with other supporters and changing your mind once you're "in" is considered disloyal.
Since the reasons for choosing are arbitrary in the first place, it's more offensive to the group if you change your allegiance since there's a real social cost and presumably little to be gained.
It's basically like telling your friends you think another group of friends are more valuable to you and you're not going to see them as much because of it.
When you watch a game and your team isn't involved you usually pick a side almost at random to support because otherwise it's hard to get invested. If you go to a game with a friend you'll probably back their team if you haven't got a particular reason not to, like a rivalry between their team and yours.
You don't select for all these before picking
@@SineN0mine3 I think it depends on if you're brought up with it, or establish an interest yourself.
From the UK, got into baseball, and chose a team to follow based on style of play, and one player in particular.
Brought up in a football mad family, in a football mad country. All about location. The other factors don't affect choice of team, just emotional well being!
I think it's mostly about the play, watching the highs and lows when your team is playing and to witness which team would win after the emotional rollercoaster
I’m not a sports guy but another thing to consider is that sports betting is huge, a lot of people are cheering for “themselves” in a way, if the team they bet on wins, they win.
That’s a good point. Especially with the rise of fantasy football and the like, you get people cheering for rival players who they happen to have in their team. Kinda kills the spirit if I’m honest.
Often it's not about whether a player goes to a different team, but about how. If a player goes to a direct competitor, or if they are very eager to leave your club, that sucks. If a player gets pushed out the door, or has good reasons to want to leave, or goes to a club you respect, you feel more sympathy.
Here in Scandinavia we support the club we were born into. The only exception would be inherited support; IE supporting the team your parents taught you to support. If someone were to support another club they would be very looked down upon and would not be taken seriously.
I was born into my team. It's a part of my heart that never could fade away, no matter the players, the leadership or the result (we're not winning shit). It's just a huge part of my culture, and as an extension, my identity.
One thing that was never mentioned is the history. There's an extensive history both within the team and between it and other teams, both good and bad. It sounds weird for someone who's not into the culture, but there is definitely a lot of hate there. It's a lot like nationalism, and there are more similarities one could draw between them than just the history. For example most big cities in Europe has one politically left-leaning team and one that's leaning to the right, representing the working class VS the rich part of town. Going to a big match against your rival team is a feeling that's hard to describe. The adrenaline, the high spirit, the nervousness and, foremost, the comradery, is like going into battle. There's definitely some tribal (and I'll add masculine) gene kicking in from somewhere deep within.
Now I'll just add that English football is a joke. There's no culture left in the EPL, it's just about money.
Finally; a man of integrity. 🤘🏼
I think maybe Alex should have talked to you.
When you say English football is a joke, you mean the premier league, the English lower leagues are the purest form of football there is with proper fans. Our football pyramid also goes down far deeper than most, we had over 6000 watching yeovil v weymouth in the national league south (6th division).
I remember before I got into sports I always wondered why people cared so much. When the Toronto Raptors got that really good team in 2019, I got really into it. I guess I saw my Canadian city going big was exciting. Many of the major players like Kawhi were new and you grow on them
I am from the Toronto area and although I don't really watch basketball, I am actually quite sad that spicy P just got traded.
You’re supporting the concept essentially, my team wimbeldon were moved out of London to Milton Keynes and essentially no one moved to support them, instead starting our own team in 2002 with a similar name where they now play in the same league as MK
I grew up watching and playing football, but I couldn't really relate to all the die hard fans of any club supporting their team no matter what and all the anger attached to it. Of course it was a very simplified view of things because I was young. I loved the game itself though and all the possibilities of how you can use your feet (or other body parts) to controll a ball in almost unimaginable ways.
Now I'm at a point where I find football more fascinating than almost anything, there is so much to it. There are so many interesting storylines of clubs or all the people attached to it (players, supporters, staff, owners), while the game itself has a lot of depth (tactics wise, how to optimize performance of players or entire clus and statistics). There are also a lot of politcal implications I find fascinating. I only support my national team in a more emotional way, but when they loose I cope with rationality to at least feel the beauty of the sport itself.
What I'd also like to mention is the similarities between sports and movies or series. All of them are entertaining and telling a story. There are entire franchises like Star Wars or the Breaking Bad universe with movies and series connected to each other. What makes sports so fascinating to me is also, that in contrast to movies/series the demand for sports is constant. There is not even a question about it, there will be a new season of the Premier League or Champions League every year and people will eat it up. Movie franchises just loose it at some point, even the best ones, sports do not. There is a good video about it from 'Athletic Interest' (It's mostly about why sports are so profitable, that's one of the main reasons as far as I can recall)
It's the myths attached to the teams. Sometimes it's personal (your father supported the team, so it's a family thing), but often it is stories that have become associated with the club over time - some teams are seen as a working man's team, teams can represent outsiders, there are socialist teams and teams historically fascist, etc. Some examples: Glasgow Celtic is bound to Irish Republicanism and even Catholicism via the experience of Irish immigrants in Glasgow; Roma were long seen as the left-wing club to rival Lazio's far-right associations; Arsenal are a team who plays stylish football (even though the players and tactics change, the idea remains). Consider FC St. Pauli: People around the world wear their logo (Nike even released limited trainers featuring it) but they play in Germany's second division; it's all because they well known as a left-wing, inclusive club. Often it's only narratives (we're talking about clubs worth millions, if not billions) but we are the stories we tell ourselves.
Orwell summed it all up in his fine essay ‘The Sporting Spirit.’
Fans support teams located in areas they identify with through their current connections. It doesn't have to be related to their place of origin. It's a way to communally bond and a way for people to experience trials and tribulations and jubilation and ebullition together ... and to have a pint afterward.
I think a football team is similar to a nation in that people agree on a shared past (historical titles, wins, and rivalries) and imagine a shared future (trophies, new signings, and dominance)
The British term "support" seems like a much more accurate word than those used in American fandom. The amount of money these teams extract from their fans (and the rest of us through various tax breaks and subsidies) is truly staggering.
Hi Alex, sitting here listening to the two of you I am hearing repeated references to a favourite topic of mine, it is this popularity of security by association, hope expectation and belief. At the same time there are moments when I see something happening in the background, that extraordinary eruption of enthusiasm and emotion that happens in crowds at sport events where no matter what the personal choices of the people there the tide of feeling takes over, for this to work I am certain that the focus of their attention, the team they favour or the game is what triggers them but is not the causal agent!, that it would seem comes from inside each person that gets so amplified when others around you share the experience of such emotion.
This takes me straight back to what I think are the underlying causal agents, we are all composed of a complex combination of biological and learned attributes many of them can be contradictory and conflicting, while one only thinks or feels one thing at a time a quite rapid sequence can often occur. All of this is inherent biology and now that I better understand just how tedious and difficult rational thinking really is for us poor souls it doers not surprise me at all that we may be endowed with alternative attributes that can be used as substitute for thought, here comes the application of imagination, so we all have a considerable capacity for guessing answers to interesting questions, we can also work things out rationally, what we are not very good at is telling which is which!. This leaves us with our heads full of all sorts of ideas some of which are well related to reality but many are not.
I am considering all this in an environmental context where we actually have considerably greater capacity for many sorts of effort than is actually really needed, this is necessary if only to satisfy Ashby's Law, what we cannot do is just switch off our brain because it is doing nothing useful! it chunters away in the background all the time and if you have chosen to believe that what it comes out with is always related to reality you are in big trouble!, the fact that all of the output is in truth just imagination and fantasy that then has to be very critically sorted through to get rid of the rubbish, to only retain the bits that can be identified in material reality, like cups and shoes and trees and birds, any empirixcal evidence will do, absence of any evidence won't. That level of mental discipline if way beyond most of us most of the time!.
Cheers, Richard.
Hey Richard, I hope you don't mind, but I read a couple of your comments I can see, this one also caught my eye out if the 3, but not as much as the first one.
I think I will take a closer look at these mirror neurones and imagine a crowd when there is msss activation...
Let me know your thoughts, cheers
Dion
I genuinely find it mental how we unanimously lie to children about Santa. Yet, I know I’m going to continue to do it when I have my own kids. A part of me is reluctant but at the same time I don’t want them to ‘miss out’.
It actually aids their critical thinking, because when they find out he doesn’t exist, they now know not to trust everything told to them by authority
It's said they quickly learn the 'lie' and join in on the game to not upset you in rhe same way you would not want to upset them.
The way I see it, the realization that Santa is fictional prompts children to question and critically evaluate information from authority figures, fostering healthy skepticism from an early age. The revelation also acts as a rite of passage, imparting secret knowledge to older children and contributing to their development of critical and independent thinking skills.
@@caoilte8097 See, I don’t quite agree that it ‘aids’ critical thinking because we (adults) don’t encourage kids to find out Santa isn’t real. We just find more creative ways to deceive them.
@@rabidL3M0NSmaybe my childhood was different in a lot of ways but when my parents sat me down and told me santa wasnt real i was extremely hurt. i dont think it aided in my critical thinking but it definitely made me feel hurt and like everything was one big lie which was some incredible foreshadowing looking back
we have a saying in sweden, "spelare kommer och går, men laget består". Roughly players come and go but the team is constant/still stands. A big part is to be apart of something bigger than yourself, than life i guess.
There is also a loyalty aspect to consider, people sometimes would want to stay loyal to the club
But why
Football appeals to our tribal instincts, fans of the sport and others like it live vicariously through their heroes on the pitch.
2:30 YES absolutely I would still support the team I was initially supporting, no matter the players. there's not just "wearing a different t-shirt", they are wearing it because they represent that team. When some new players are introduced, sometimes I don't remember all their names, but I'm still supporting their team, because team sports is about the team, not the individuals. You grow to like the individuals as you follow the team closely. I don't think that argument makes a huge amount of sense.
Not for you. But I for myself cheer for the players, not for the teams
@@saqlaq96
You’re what’s called a “Stan”, not a fan…seek therapy immediately.
@@saqlaq96 hmm okay, but I would say that cheering for the team is more common atleast. Usually sports fans I've met do that. There may be different perspectives though
It is a total in-group out group thing. Most people are supporters because there friends are, and then they make new friends within the team. Plus there is something in a team that resonates with you. One thing for example is FC Liverpool singing "You'll never walk alone". I can see how that resonates with a lot of people. As long as you are a Liverpool fan, you never walk alone.
There are some fans who support a team because they are very successful and they like to win. There are others who like that "there team" is very open minded, while others come from a working class background and that speaks to some supporters.
The arrogance of young intellectuals who purport to be at a loss for something they've never truly cared for or even sought to understand in the first place... and yet their deductions still require applause.
I am baffled that Alex has this naive idea of teams in sports
In my country, Greece during the '80s in school, history lesson was a manifesto of emotional connection with the past. Especially with the Byzantine Empire and the fall of Constaninopole to the Ottoman Empire back in 1453. A football team with the name AEK was founded by ex citizens of the city of Constantinopole in 1925. So the connection with the glorious past as it was instilled to me through school made a fun of this team. Today i couldn't care less about that team or football in general. But it's interesting that football can be used as a guide of citizens towards specific political and ideological directions, without even realizing it before it happens.
I think this more a conversation on the psychology of fandom as opposed to the philosophy of sports, but still very enjoyable!
"i don't know much about sports" you made that very clear.
Interesting question and rarely discussed. I think there are a variety of reasons for supporting a team. The big clubs/teams, usually get a huge backing because of their success which normally entails the best players in the sport. Smaller teams, with not much success, have loyalists fans based on hometown/local team,die-hards. Sometimes, someone will introduce us to a sport for the first time and we become supporters of that first team we witnessed. Many switch clubs in following certain players. Ronaldo is a good example. the reasons are many,so they are all valid.
I believe what the team represents here is not just the players or Manager but things like history, achievements, legacy.
The name of the club (Manchester United ), their nickname (Red Devils ), stadium name ( theatre of Dreams) all play a big factor. So even if the players are switched none of these change. So I'm still inclined to the team.
Well, I thought about this as a football fan myself and it helps to think of a team as an almost living entity and all of it's players, managers, and owners as it's attributes that make up it's past and present .. You are supporting this 'entity' based on at least one of it's past and/or present attributes and based on it's past challenges and struggles that it overcame and you root for it in it's upcoming challenges ... For example, I fell in love with Real Madrid after seeing Cristiano Ronaldo playing for the team and decided to support it (totally arbitrary) then when witnessing it's challenges and how it overcame them pre and post Ronaldo it made me root for this entity in future endeavors even after the star player that made me watch the Madrid games left.
I am looking at this as a North American but to me supporting a team is more about a shared social experience. Sunday comes around, friends gather, share food, drink and cheer for 'their' team. It's fun social experience. Of course, we admire the skill, strength and endurance of the athletes too. I wonder if Alex has the same trouble understanding about non team sports?
This starts to become different in a one on one like boxing. Many boxers have fans that eventually took up the sport of boxing and challenged their idol.
Your videos always makes me laugh! You are a good comedian alex!
I love Rugby, and my friends back in South Africa were quite upset when I was shouting for Japan when they beat the Springboks. I just really love the nuances of the game, and even though I have a specific set of teams that I usually support, at the end of the day, I just really love seeing a team of skilled players work as a team overcome their opposition. This approach has me supporting the underdogs many times, purely because I want to seem them tip the scales, make some amazing plays to surprise everyone.
Question I had while watching this: Should (or Can?) you compare the psychology (with regard to the spectators) of a sport like Rugby or Football be compared with a game like Chess?
The great thing about sports is that there are so many different levels of fandom a person can have, for example I have a favorite team in all of the major professional and college sports, however I don’t care for them all on the same level, in basketball I’m a Knicks fan and for ncaa I’m a Syracuse fan, although I love both teams I have a much stronger fandom for Syracuse because they’re the team from the city I was born in and live 10 mins away from, plus I have friends who go to that college and I’ve seen many of the current and former players out and about in the city, that kinda proximity to the team just creates a different level loyalty
Its much more complex than Alex thinks. There are different kinds of fans, different teams, different relations.
Good to see Leeds United mentioned. Stlll a big club.
I once saw my former employer rooting for his home team while watching a recording of game played days earlier. It must be supernatural support if it's not bound by time or space.
Sometimes its players, sometimes its family/friends, sometimes its choosing to follow the rival of tour familys team, sometimes its random. But its a way to blow off steam, its a way to feel included with each other.
What an interesting conversation.
I like the idea of picking a sports team to root for based only their mascot. It makes as much sense as any other reason.
I’m from Canada and I support Liverpool because my dad suppports Liverpool, even though he is from Bristol. He started supporting Liverpool due to his uncle being scouser, who actually had connections with the team. In the early 80s my dad actually got to meet the players at the club including Ian Rush, Kenny Danglish, Alan Kennedy etc so ig that’s why I support them.
In South Africa, a big rugby game is probably the only time in which every culture, race, ethnic group unites. On game day everyone is wearing our Springbok shirts, hooting in the streets, making small talk with strangers, every bar, pub and restaurant is PACKED. We take our rugby seriously. Because of our awful segregated history, it’s such an incredible time to share the same vision or goal with other Saffas, no matter who they are or where they live or sit on the socioeconomic spectrum. The movie ‘Invictus’ illustrates this quite well. Ek wil net sê, VIER rugbywêreldbeker-oorwinnings, Bokke, julle behoort trots te wees op julleself. Suid-Afrika is agter jou!!
I think people support the institution that comes behind, in my case i support Liverpool, not because i like the players, but because i´ve fallen in love with the Anfield atmosphere, cause of the philosophy of playstyle that they have, because of their values as an institution. For me and for all the liverpool fans, it doesn´t matter if our defense is good or bad, if our winger is still Salah. I believe that you are seeing it from an over individualistic view, people support a team that they feel connected or associated with, some may support their local team, other could support the most winning and others might support, like me, a team, that in some sense, they feel like represents them. I hope this serves as a good explanation.
P.S: Sorry if some things are not well put, this may be because english is not my first language.
There was a study done to discover what was the number one reason for selecting a team. Most people’s instincts would say the team their father supported was the most common…however it was actually whichever team was most successful during that persons youth
I accept that my emotional connection to the success of my chosen football club is completely irrational. Trying to explain why it has happened is difficult but here are some facts... I started watching football with my dad when i was 7. My dad supported that team because of a disaster that happened in the 50s where many of the club's players died. When I saw my team do well, my dad was happy, even ecstatic and over time I too felt this way. When I go to watch live matches there is group solidarity with the thousands of other fans there - theres also tribalism. Im not religious, I am an atheist and a humanist, but I accept that in some was football does for me what religion does for others. Association with a football club is part of supporter's identity - clubs wouldn't exist without fans.
Yep. Alex is really cringe for obsessing over how irrational it is, and the people getting over defensive and pretending sports fandom is really rational are cringe too.
Why can’t people just enjoy life?
Very interesting take
fun fact... this kinda happened once. A basketball player played for both teams during the same game once. SecretBase has an episode of "weird rules" all about it.
I personally think most of us who don't belong to that exact region actually support success only and then build connections with success.
CASE I :- Ok, let's say you support man. utd as an Indian because they were the first club that started this international fandom thing and they were also one of the best if not the best at that time, so due to their success you started supporting them and the players that played for it.
CASE II:- You liked some player and he joined that club and you started supporting it, which eventually comes from the success of the player. Let's take my case, I support Tottenham(I am not British) cause of Harry Kane who I supported from WC 2018 when I just started watching football, so this made me a Tottenham fan which I still am even after he left for BAYERN.
See similarly people will never support Bournemouth(let say) cause they aren't successful l( I don't know their history) and don't have any significant player as such . But the way Dominic solanke is playing some might support Bournemouthh.
People appreciate man. utd. success from the times they didn't have any idea that the club existed. whuch basically shows success.
At last I we humans are just Glory hunters, we will go with the successful ones of the era , with the ones that are one of the best if not the beat . We support nothing but success and why do we support success of the people or club which don't have anything to do with us?
Because we want to be the part of success somehow , even do we didn't contribute even a bit in it. we just like success and after we are associated with club we are supporting the past success of the club with which we associated ourselves with.
Sorry for bad english
The other way you can look at it is the ship of Theseus is just a place holder name for this collection of items and functions etc, when some piece is added it becomes part if the ship and when subtracted it becomes formerly part of the ship of theseus, if you construct the ship again is will be the ship of theseus constructed from the former parts of the ship of theseus which can be short handed to the ship of theseus until it needs clarifying. Essentially you can add placeholders for sums and parts to describe things and we can apply this to a football team also.
As a villa fan I used to love Christen Benteke, then I watched him play for Belgium against England and it was a really weird feeling wanting him to play badly
Paraphernalia wise, it is much cheaper to stick with a team, regardless of the players, then you don’t have to buy new kit whenever your favorite players get traded.
I do know people who support individual players not clubs, they go for whoever the player is playing for.
Some LeBron James fans are like this.
@@crazyprayingmantis5596I know of fans who support players and not teams too- they are called player’s parents 🤣
@@InigoMontoya-
😄
Seinfeld once had a joke that addressed this very question. He described how our loyalty towards a particular team is fundamentally arbitrary, for all the reasons discussed in the video-the players are always changing, the team can move to another city, et cetera. The only thing that stays the same is the uniforms, ergo, we are essentially rooting for laundry.
I cheer for the team that has a specific player I like
Alex does pull it all together at the very end of the clip
Hahah alex sports and football is one of the greatest things in my life.....my dad is a supporter of chelsea and i became one.
I must tel you apart from passing my medical exams chelsea have given me the best moments of my life.
In my country, football is a tribe, its a community.
🇳🇬🇳🇬
“No one player is bigger than the team.” - Herm Edwards
Hey Alex, can you please make a video about the ethics of competitive boxing?
I got sober about 20 months ago. I've been looking back at my life and wondering where I went wrong. It seems that a part of it has been an unwillingness to engage. I've always had a hard time figuring out what gives people the desire to participate. The will to win. People seem to fall into activities so willingly, and I usually didn't get how they could be so passionate about winning a game. It's always seemed to me, contrived and arbitrary. I've been wondering about the philosophy of sports deeply for months now. This video, I hope, will examine exactly that. Thanks in advance.
I’ve from Oxford as well and went to the same secondary skl as u (in cowley). Congrats!
I think you should talk about this with one of the greatest sports "narrator", but also philosopher in some way, Federico Buffa
How i relate to certain teams is mainly because i like certain players. Sometimes, it's the style at which those players play the game, sometimes its how the conduct themselves during the game in regards to sportsmanship, and sometimes its how they act as people when they arent playing the game.
So if all the players i enjoy watching and supporting switched to the other team then i would be happy with either team winning.