Thank you Michael and Rupert...I suppose that I hadn't thought about items being found after ice has melted had no context...These chaps that have begun studying that area must be quite exciting for them bringing in a new subject for examination...and laying the ground for further study for others to build upon....As more glaciers start to reveal what their icy claws have hidden I wonder just what will be next...Watch this space !!
climate change arrows are collected whenever possible , some with arrow heads still attached or nearby, and many other artefacts. The ice patches are relatively small found in and around that high bank see the arrows.and the arrow hunter ,its way out.
As a former hunter, it could also be that the hunter actually hit his/her prey, but the animal was able to escape the hunter, and the arrow worked its way out.
The evidence apparently shows that reindeer come to the ice patches in the warmer seasons and that they were being deliberately hunted in this small area at this time. The ice patches are relatively small so a wounded animal is most likely to have removed itself and the missile from the area before it perhaps working its way out. The found arrows are much more likely to be 'misses' it seems.
#1 We have no idea if those arrows were used during hunting, warfare, or some sort of rite or ritual. #2 He suggested that these arrows were lost and not retrieved. That's very plausible but we don't know that for sure either. #3 He says that these arrows were shot and missed their targets. This is also very plausible, but we don't know that for sure. A good number may have hit their targets. #4 We have no idea that they were shot at all when they were lost, misplaced, or intentionally left there for some reason. Perhaps some hit their target in an animal or human that eluded their attackers after being hit... We have no idea that they were lost at all. All we know is that we found some arrows. I don't think we can make many more assumptions without some corroborative evidence. Cheers! Love you two chaps!
When looking at that graph, it would be a more useful graph if they use color gradations to show when ice was just beginning to get thicker or when it was melting. Because it almost looks like activity ramped up when the ice was either not there or when it was just beginning to form again. And it looks like activity drops when ice gets thick. If we assume that the ice has always been thick, we are not getting the true context. It looks as if the human activity was most active when there was little to no ice. It also shows that the climate has fluctuated as it continues to do.
No. Glaciers are rubbish at preserving the archaeological record. Because they are dynamic systems, they mulch and mix anything within and destroy context. There's nothing to learn from artefacts coming out of a glacier. These ice patches are different in that they are static. If glaciers are waves, then think of ice patches as rock pools. Yes - there are loads of artefacts coming out of the ice but until the processes involved in them being preserved in ice and the implications of the vastly altered taphonomy of such relics are better understood, then it is fairly pointless (though tempting) to just gather them all in. That's the point of this study: to better understand the processes so that meaningful archaeology can be done.
If you look at the terrain where the arrows were found in and around that high bank, it would be a perfect place to frighten and drive animals past. Standing at a distance in front of the bank, the animals would have nowhere to go other than straight across the hunter's path. From an archer's perspective this would be a perfect killing zone - that is perhaps why, over such a long period of time, only 60 odd arrows indicating misses were embedded in the snow and ice! As you rightly say, arrows are collected whenever possible, but (and I have experience of this) when they go into the snow they are very easily lost forever.
If you only found 68 items how can you extrapolate a gap in history? So few items do not necessarily show a complete picture of the resource usage .Scarcity of artifacts may not correlate to the drop rate.
When i was ten we went to my aunts place in the Quesnel BC .She had a dig not far from her house that was a 30 to 40 foot circle of shale that started about 12 inches down and continued for 18 inches or so. she`d dug 1/3 of it and let me go for it. I still have the 2 different arrow-heads i dug up in like 30 mins . At wich time she pulled my archeology ticket (cuz i was good and she was a bich) I called the arche. dept at Simon Fraser univ. some years ago but never followed up on bringing the artifacts to be seen . Man i still get that feeling like when i found it when i view them.
"Climate change" is a term that has always made me laugh. Of course there is climate change. There is nothing BUT change when it comes to the climate of earth. We have gone from ice ages to warm periods COUNTLESS times - and the vast majority of it happened BEFORE it could be said that humans were having an impact. I think pollution of our air and water are bigger concerns. The preservation of forests and wild areas are more important. Lots of things are responsible for historical climactic changes. You have for one, eccentricities in earths orbit. (Milancovitch Cycles) climate.nasa.gov/news/2948/milankovitch-orbital-cycles-and-their-role-in-earths-climate/ You have the procession of the axis of the earth - known as a "great year," it takes 26,000 years for one complete procession of the axis of earth which is a change in the tilt of earth, relative to the sun. The Saharan desert was once lush 13,000 years ago and will be so again. It will continue to change from lush to desert over each successive period of 26,000 years. If the tilt of the earth can create such dramatic changes, then perhaps were are overestimating our own influence upon it (the climate). Humans have f'd plenty up though, believe me. You'll get no argument from me on that.
It's way more complex than that. Deposits come out of the ice at the margins. By the time artefacts that have been released from the ice are discovered, they are outside of their 'context' within the ice. Also - ice patches grow AND shrink over these timescales so there is no clear chronological record to be obtained from the ice - it is not a simple 'the deeper the ice the older it is' scenario. This is the whole point of this study; to try to get a better understanding of these ice patches at this particular moment in time when they are giving up their archaeology, so that archaeologists can have a framework for approaching remains that are emerging from what, until recently has been an unknown as far as context is concerned, in the future.
@@ThePrehistoryGuys so the artifacts are emerging because the ice has melted. Therefore leaving no direct context. It’s perhaps even possible that the artifacts are shifted somewhat, too. I really think the article frighteningly demonstrates that the climate change I barely notice at age 60 in NY is actually profoundly changing our world. The piece of this that’s so terrifying to me is that when part of the world became ice, the other part became hot & dry. I wonder conversely, If the ice caps melt & the Arctic/ Antarctic regions warm WTF happens HERE? LOL! This was all so much easier to digest BEFORE I had kids, since who cares? I won’t be around to experience it lol ! NOW I just hope my future generations ARE and it’s all figured out by then ......
Climate change is proceeding more quickly at the northern latitudes then then seen in the lower 48. Glaciers have been rapidly retreating for decades in Alaska; permafrost has been melting; insects invading forests; while climate change is just recently becoming obvious in Southwest: wildfires increasing as rainfall decreasing.
Thank you Michael and Rupert...I suppose that I hadn't thought about items being found after ice has melted had no context...These chaps that have begun studying that area must be quite exciting for them bringing in a new subject for examination...and laying the ground for further study for others to build upon....As more glaciers start to reveal what their icy claws have hidden I wonder just what will be next...Watch this space !!
So glad we got across what this study was really about. Thank you ChristophersMum!
@@ThePrehistoryGuys Thank you for replying...Liz.😁
climate change arrows are collected whenever possible , some with arrow heads still attached or nearby, and many other artefacts. The ice patches are relatively small found in and around that high bank see the arrows.and the arrow hunter ,its way out.
As a former hunter, it could also be that the hunter actually hit his/her prey, but the animal was able to escape the hunter, and the arrow worked its way out.
The evidence apparently shows that reindeer come to the ice patches in the warmer seasons and that they were being deliberately hunted in this small area at this time. The ice patches are relatively small so a wounded animal is most likely to have removed itself and the missile from the area before it perhaps working its way out. The found arrows are much more likely to be 'misses' it seems.
Would have liked to see the arrows.
missed this one, arrived just as you finished. just caught up and watched it now though, interesting as always fellas, cheers
Fascinating stuff, thank you gentlemen!
Excellent Thank You 😀
Watched a video on this today. Amazing stuff. Bit worrying in terms of the times we are living. Thank you xxx
#1 We have no idea if those arrows were used during hunting, warfare, or some sort of rite or ritual.
#2 He suggested that these arrows were lost and not retrieved. That's very plausible but we don't know that for sure either.
#3 He says that these arrows were shot and missed their targets. This is also very plausible, but we don't know that for sure. A good number may have hit their targets.
#4 We have no idea that they were shot at all when they were lost, misplaced, or intentionally left there for some reason. Perhaps some hit their target in an animal or human that eluded their attackers after being hit... We have no idea that they were lost at all.
All we know is that we found some arrows. I don't think we can make many more assumptions without some corroborative evidence.
Cheers! Love you two chaps!
When looking at that graph, it would be a more useful graph if they use color gradations to show when ice was just beginning to get thicker or when it was melting. Because it almost looks like activity ramped up when the ice was either not there or when it was just beginning to form again. And it looks like activity drops when ice gets thick. If we assume that the ice has always been thick, we are not getting the true context. It looks as if the human activity was most active when there was little to no ice. It also shows that the climate has fluctuated as it continues to do.
Great show, thanks!
Maybe all other field archaeologists should drop what they're doing and work on melting glaciers.
No. Glaciers are rubbish at preserving the archaeological record. Because they are dynamic systems, they mulch and mix anything within and destroy context. There's nothing to learn from artefacts coming out of a glacier. These ice patches are different in that they are static. If glaciers are waves, then think of ice patches as rock pools. Yes - there are loads of artefacts coming out of the ice but until the processes involved in them being preserved in ice and the implications of the vastly altered taphonomy of such relics are better understood, then it is fairly pointless (though tempting) to just gather them all in. That's the point of this study: to better understand the processes so that meaningful archaeology can be done.
Interesting. Would the 6000 year old finds
Come from aurignation people? Would dogger land have any land or would it be completely flooded by then?
If you look at the terrain where the arrows were found in and around that high bank, it would be a perfect place to frighten and drive animals past. Standing at a distance in front of the bank, the animals would have nowhere to go other than straight across the hunter's path. From an archer's perspective this would be a perfect killing zone - that is perhaps why, over such a long period of time, only 60 odd arrows indicating misses were embedded in the snow and ice! As you rightly say, arrows are collected whenever possible, but (and I have experience of this) when they go into the snow they are very easily lost forever.
If you only found 68 items how can you extrapolate a gap in history? So few items do not necessarily show a complete picture of the resource usage .Scarcity of artifacts may not correlate to the drop rate.
Add your name and address to your arrows. So they may be returned.
Or not loose them in the first place, take responsibility and take care of your stuff
When i was ten we went to my aunts place in the Quesnel BC .She had a dig not far from her house that was a 30 to 40 foot circle of shale that started about 12 inches down and continued for 18 inches or so. she`d dug 1/3 of it and let me go for it. I still have the 2 different arrow-heads i dug up in like 30 mins . At wich time she pulled my archeology ticket (cuz i was good and she was a bich) I called the arche. dept at Simon Fraser univ. some years ago but never followed up on bringing the artifacts to be seen . Man i still get that feeling like when i found it when i view them.
Interesting
If we get more climate change now we end up shoveling snow all year,
how can glaciers melt when they are forming around my house?
this reminds me of someone saying "If it's true that the universe keeps on expanding, how come I can never find a space to park my car?"
Climate is cyclical and linear. Do not draw conclusions based on a limited understanding. That’s science.
"Climate change" is a term that has always made me laugh. Of course there is climate change. There is nothing BUT change when it comes to the climate of earth. We have gone from ice ages to warm periods COUNTLESS times - and the vast majority of it happened BEFORE it could be said that humans were having an impact. I think pollution of our air and water are bigger concerns. The preservation of forests and wild areas are more important.
Lots of things are responsible for historical climactic changes. You have for one, eccentricities in earths orbit. (Milancovitch Cycles) climate.nasa.gov/news/2948/milankovitch-orbital-cycles-and-their-role-in-earths-climate/ You have the procession of the axis of the earth - known as a "great year," it takes 26,000 years for one complete procession of the axis of earth which is a change in the tilt of earth, relative to the sun. The Saharan desert was once lush 13,000 years ago and will be so again. It will continue to change from lush to desert over each successive period of 26,000 years. If the tilt of the earth can create such dramatic changes, then perhaps were are overestimating our own influence upon it (the climate). Humans have f'd plenty up though, believe me. You'll get no argument from me on that.
Always someone
He's not wrong though!
Ice leaves no context?? I beg to differ. The ice is x years old therefore the minimum age of the finds are the oldest layer of ice, surely.
It's way more complex than that. Deposits come out of the ice at the margins. By the time artefacts that have been released from the ice are discovered, they are outside of their 'context' within the ice. Also - ice patches grow AND shrink over these timescales so there is no clear chronological record to be obtained from the ice - it is not a simple 'the deeper the ice the older it is' scenario. This is the whole point of this study; to try to get a better understanding of these ice patches at this particular moment in time when they are giving up their archaeology, so that archaeologists can have a framework for approaching remains that are emerging from what, until recently has been an unknown as far as context is concerned, in the future.
@@ThePrehistoryGuys so the artifacts are emerging because the ice has melted. Therefore leaving no direct context. It’s perhaps even possible that the artifacts are shifted somewhat, too. I really think the article frighteningly demonstrates that the climate change I barely notice at age 60 in NY is actually profoundly changing our world. The piece of this that’s so terrifying to me is that when part of the world became ice, the other part became hot & dry. I wonder conversely, If the ice caps melt & the Arctic/ Antarctic regions warm WTF happens HERE? LOL! This was all so much easier to digest BEFORE I had kids, since who cares? I won’t be around to experience it lol ! NOW I just hope my future generations ARE and it’s all figured out by then ......
Climate change is proceeding more quickly at the northern latitudes then then seen in the lower 48. Glaciers have been rapidly retreating for decades in Alaska; permafrost has been melting; insects invading forests; while climate change is just recently becoming obvious in Southwest: wildfires increasing as rainfall decreasing.
People losing things out of pockets and pouches since forever.
See, climate change is good