Beekeeping | Pros & Cons Of Horizontal Hives? Who Made This?
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2023
- Beekeeping may have just turned a corner for me with horizontal hives. Today, I'll start my review and experiment of running a horizontal hive this season and see if I can overwinter it.
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My dad only had horizontals in Ukraine, but his hives were double walled with 2 inches in between walls for insulation. Big pillow under the roof. We had negative 35°c in winter time and bèes were fine.
Thanks again David Burns for supporting a small business in NC. We enjoy watching people modified our hives to fit there needs. Over the years many of our customers have made some great comments to improve the horizontal designs . Mr Burns we are looking forward to seeing you use your experience and education to help others with understanding how to run a horizontal hive. Your subscribers have already made some great observation!!!!
We thank God every day for allowing us to be a part of the bee community.
Rickey and Ruth Roark
Nice doing business with you guys!! Great Hive.
I purchased plans from the same vendor and built two horizontal hives last summer and overwintered my bees in them. Strong start this spring. So far so good!
Been keeping bees in this configuration for going on 4 years. What you said is correct: I place fondant up above the brood area, and the honey for their consumption on either side. I've had great luck in overwintering here in SE Missouri. In fact, I had one colony with only 5 frames of bees going into winter do very well. I do put burlap ‘pillows’ under the hinged roof and in the empty end of the hive body.
We opted for splayed legs because we have the occasional racoon or bear wander through and this makes tipping them over harder. We added chains to either side to help the roof to remain upright when open. We are still working in a strut system, have found less is more- a simple stick from the roof to where the shoulder where the frames hang. Easy on, easy off, and stored inside. The frame hanger is on the roof edge that I grab yo open, that way the frame of bees is over the colony and is at eye level... Great for photographing those girls.... If I could share a photo I would...
Built one of these out of some scrap lumber I had. Used toy box lid supports. They are made to keep the lid from slamming down on a child.
You commented a few times on overwintering in this video so I wanted to suggest reading 'Keeping Bees with a Smile' by Fedor Lazutin and/or 'Keeping Bees in Horizontal Hives' by Georges de Layens. The problem with a horizontal langstroth is that the frames are too shallow for the bees to move up (they don't really move sideways once they cluster). There is another style of horizontal hive called a Layens hive which uses deeper frames to improve overwintering success. I've started using the Layens style recently and really like it; the only problem is most extractors are too small to fit the extra deep frames.
Im in the south and i hunt a lot during the winter. I exclusively camp in a hammock while hunting. There is a "blanket" known as an underquilt that is shaped like a hammock that goes underneath your hammock. Something of this style comes to mind when you discuss wintering your hives with all that cold wind blowing underneath them. I might suggest at least doing a simple google search for a hammock underquilt to see what im talking about and how they work in order to keep a hammock camper warm during the winter and possibly adapting this design to keep your bees warm over winter!
David, I’ve had long hives for several years and love them. They are my “go to hive”.
I attach chain to at least one side of the hive from the main box to the lid, just long enough to keep the lid open and take the stress off the hinges. Use the chain- works well!
I also have (build my own hives) decided that putting a steep peaked roof on my hives allows for more room to install feeders on top of the frames.
I also construct my hives out of 2x12 lumber to provide more insulation.
What I do in winter in Wisconsin with my horizontal top bar is make sure all the honey is on one side of brood nest. If they put honey one both sides they will run into a dead end and won't travel all the way across to get the honey on other side. You can also clip the corners of your foundation for easier travel for the bees or use some wired or foundationless frames in honey area so they can make their own travel holes. In winter I have one corner open and can use queen excluder setting as mouse guard.
I’m really excited about these hives, especially as a chiropractic student using options to maintain spinal health is important. Thanks for sharing
Part of the magic of the layens horizontal hive is the deep frame where there is a large brood area with lots of honey above. The deeper feame gives the bees a great winter supply of honey to work up throgh during the long cold spell
The walls of my horizontal is made from 2x12. This gives it some R factor for better insulation.
Thank you, David, Sheri and team for the video,
David, I agree with you wholeheartedly and I am a firm believer in supporting local/homegrown/mom-and-pop providers rather than national change or worldwide change such as Home Depot or Lowe’s or Walmart unless absolutely necessary .
And since you have the builders ear please recommend to him to add may be a 6 in.² pad, leveling pad I should say. Which should be easy enough to do is all you need is the pad and some all thread rod. As well as a small level for the front end on one end to ensure a level hive.
Thank you Olguin very much and I hope and pray you have a very blessed day 🙏
David.
Tip :
Horizontal Hive Roof just needs a fixed Chain at each end. Stops any Wind topple over issue.
Just make sure its at least minimum of say 100 Degree Tilt. . .
Or that Lid could come crashing down on your Fingers ! If it's held right upright.
My H.H is just an Ex Log Storage Box, lined with a Timber Cavity, filled with Sheep's Wool ! And it has thick Timber Plank over Boards with Port Hole viewing Holes that are covered in Plexiglass It allows you to lift the upper Lid (Dead Freezers have great "Lids" ) And mine has a long lifting Handle (x1 defunct Looper Handle!) riveted on the Lid Side making Roof Lifting up a doddle.
Hope this helps. 😎
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Happy Beekeeping 2023
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My Horizontal Hive overwinters really well following a Cold Scottish 🏴 Snow and Ice Event !
Has space under that Lid for a Rapid Round Syrup Feeder and able to add Fondant Blocks easily too.
Also has an intergrated Vertical Queen Excluder after the Left orientated Brood Chamber. Then it's that QE and after that a Super Area to the Right Side. All using Langstroth Frames : Jumbo Deeps, Deeps, even Supers. Choose to preference.
As Designed so the Beek stands behind the Hive re Bees flying out at the Front Lower Entrance. 😉
Nice option for those who are Elder, Disabled, Kids, even for a "Come See the Bees" (without Bee Suit re Viewing) Comminity Hive. 👍
Do wear a Bee Veil and Gloves, minimum if opening up those Inner Plank Boards for sure !
Think my DIY H.H cost about £100 ($70) to Construct. Over a few Weekends etc. Wool is easy to come by here.
And a Log Box, Pallet Wood, a donated Freezer Lid (if no Log Box : use the Whole Freezer) that should be housed within a Timber Outer Box : looks more like a Hive than a Metal Scrap Yard. Dumped item. 🤭
Cheek out the Aussie BushBee Man YT Video.
He actually has a Dead Freezer "Horizontal Hive". Cool. . . 🙃
I understand your concerns about wintering. Insulate their attic well. Maybe put 2 colonies in it. It's what I did with 2 weaker ones. Most heat loss is through the roof and corners. Honey stores is why I went with Lazutin frames that are basically a double deep. They have a 1/4 to 1/3 frame above brood of honey stores. They get left with 4-5 full frames of honey and resources. I use house wrap to wrap them in winter S.E. Mi. The hives in the U.P. MI have r4 foam between 2 by Lazutin hives and unwelcome boards.
I added 2 chains to the ends of mine.
And how do they keep the lid from slamming shut in a gust of wind, which is what he's asking about?
Hi David this is great idea talking about horizontal hives my father used to make them I used to help him the differences is that collecting Honey from the supers above 😊😢in the horizontal they collect the Honey on the sides so you have left side and the right side full of honey and in the middle is brood even in the winter they ok From the middle like you said porch they protect them self very important to keep them in the center
I built one because I had experience last year with the one Ricky made for Greg Burns. It’s been my resource hive this year and I’ve done 4 splits from it and have made numerous queens.
You can use a rope or chain for strut on both sides or use a board that is cut out to using a dowel on lid and base for holding the board on both sides.
Horizontal hives do have an appeal. Not having to bend over or lift heavy boxes would be great! Unfortunately those who I have witnessed try them here in NH have not had consistent success over wintering. Asking bees to move in a horizontal directing during cluster / sub freezing weather seems to be a big ask for them. They end up starving with honey stores just a frame or two away. A sad site to see. It is not uncommon to have years where they can't fly for 4 months or more due to no break in cold weather. I am glad you are trying one out. Hopefully you can discover the secret on how to get them to overwinter in northern climates then I can swap over and save my back. Thanks for posing your videos.
My work dealt with a lot of aerodynamics in fuel economy, but one of the things that I work with a lot were skirts to reduce wind drag, but from what I see there it would be a simple solution to add skirt boards around the bottom of that hive in the winter time;, I would recommend pressure treated three-quarter inch plywood with aluminum on one side..
I put a chain on mine. Ricky and Ruth are wonderful people. I bought one of my Layens hives from them. I is a beautiful hive and I love it
A jack chain works great, I use it on my horizontal hive I built myself.
Good video thanks for sharing David and Sheri 😊 see you tomorrow at the live stream 😊
David I’m super interested in this option. As a veteran who’s beaten his body to pieces, manipulating, Langs is, well, a pain! This option is something I’d really consider. Very interested in your research on this.
You could use aircraft cable for support. It can swivel down when closed. Thank You for all your great info. Joe Charlier
Looks like the “Cadillac” of beehives. Very nice!
I wrap my horizontal hive with a water heater wrap but on three sides & leave entrance side uncovered - has worked three years now.
David a simple long hook & eye on either side of the box will solve your problem 👍
I made a top bar Hive out of an ammo box. I put scrap vinyl siding on the outside, finishing nails along the top edge to keep the bars perfectly spaced. Screen on the bottom, and i used the box top as the bee box lid, then bent some roofing tin into an A that just sits on top and keeps everything dry. I put a box of bees in it several years ago and they loved it. However about three bars in, they started making cross comb, which is not unusual, and i should have fixed it as soon as i saw it, but i put it off bc i didnt want to distrurb them at that time. I waited too long and they took off bc there were hive beetles. Totally My Bad! They had made 6 bars of comb, and had started storing honey too! So i know my box and concept worked. I just didn't do my part to manage them.😢 I havent done any with it since, but im getting the urge to clean it up and maybe get a box of bees and try again.
Cool.
A gabled roof might allow a taller feeding jar in the center area. Good video. Thanks
Love your videos David. Your winter bee kinds will work very well in that hive after mods. I leave plenty of honey in mine... I'm in Michigan... and they nearly always survive winter with just honey when I insulate above the frames and don't ventilate. I've put hive alive fondant patties right on top of the frames with recessed cover boards and that works great as well and the bees access it easily. As far as entrances, if you want honey.... Sides. If you want to make splits, nucs etc then center is ok. I'd rather have the bulk of my honey on one end.
I want one!!!! Thanks for this video, David. 🙂
Ohh I love that Hive! could they make a layens Hive like this???
Hi David - late comment here. I live in Oregon (so it's cold in winter with snow on my hives) and I started beekeeping 2 years ago only using horizontal hives (and deep frames, not Langstroth). I only have 4 colonies so far, but they have all over-wintered successfully both years with no feeding whatsoever. Also, I catch swarms that are local and well acclimated to the climate and have a natural tolerance for diseases, etc. They're dark brown northern bees, not yellow like some that are commercially sold. I'm conservative when I remove excess honey in the fall, and for new swarms I don't take any of their honey the first year. So far it seems to work. My hives are also double walled and insulated with natural sheep's wool. I believe the hive, in addition to the bees being local both contribute to their wintering success. Oh, and I haven't seen one hint of mites! I love your channel, I learn so much! Thanks.
Thanks for supporting a small business and your honest review. This is a good swarm prevention solution with all that extra space. I wonder if it would be possible to add a flowhive super on that horizontal hive, using the horizontal part as a brood chamber with a Q excluder inbetween. It would add weights on top, so also solution again wind.
I live your page and website. You have great information, a fantastic presentation style, and a pleasant demeanor.
Attach a small chain with screws to hold door :)
It would be nice to hear how the hive over-wintered. I kept bees in top-bar hives in Ontario and only had an entrance on the very end of the hive. They maintained a brood nest in the first 9 frames and stored honey passed that. The one thing you absolutely MUST do is have the bees all at one end before cold weather sets in. Otherwise they could consume half of their stores, and run out with stores on the other end of the hive. I'm sure you know that they will starve before they will move back across empty combs to get to the honey at the other end. They will never figure out that the other end has lots of food. The bees survive the winters by moving out of the brood area onto the honey they had stored. One thing I did was leave ALL the honey in the hive all winter and once the nectar flow started in the spring, I went in and took whatever honey was left. That way I knew the bees had lots of stores for the winter. With a horizontal hive you also need to break out the corners of your foundation, if it's plastic, so the bees have access to move from one frame to another. With wax foundation the bees can chew a transit hole but they can't chew the plastic. Also, bees don't mind being in a horizontal hive, they might like a vertical hive better, but they build hives in floors, roofs and many other places where they can only move sideways. Check out Mr. Ed's channel to see all the places he gets cut-outs from. I will say that that is one fancy hive. Almost a work of art.
furniture Folding and locking Support, would work better than gass struts i would thank the struts because the struts will keep pushing up when it's close
I hammered a 6 ft garden post into the ground to prevent the box from being blown over when the lid is open. You could also attach a board to the legs, flat on the ground without making it ugly like a post does.
I use old webbed dog leashes to keep my top bar lids from overextending rather than chain or a fixed strut. Mostly because I had them and didn’t have surplus chain laying around and I didn’t want to buy struts but I like how they don’t tangle or cut the lid up if they get inside when closing or crush any girls like a fixed strut might.
David, you can build your winter-be-kind boards smaller to fit under the top cover and use a thin rim to fit in the correct position. If the candy board sets back two-inches the cover should close.. Remember the old tailgate on trucks, with the chain, a prop rod like the bonnet of an import car, both of these ideas could solve your top cover inquiry.
Way to go Ricky!
Thanks Matt!! 😊
Thanks a lot for your honest opinion. You made me reconsider buying a flow hive due to price . Now I’m really looking into this o it pricked I went to their website didn’t know how to buy them
On the horizontal hive I built I just lay 3 inch foam over the wooden frame covers once the nighttime Temps are consistently below 40 degrees.
David,
I operated a horizontal hive that I designed 5 years and after 3 years of operate, your fear of how the bees will react is genuine. In my testing and research, I learned that in a single box of 33 frames, the bees never combed out more than 18 frames total (during any year). I have two entrances on each back wall and like the top bar, the bees always work from the entrance end first with an average of 8-9 brood frames, then 8-9 food frames. They never combed out all of the frames.
Winter feeding is a great challenge and candy boards are the only way I ever kept them alive. I do like the idea of the center landing porch on this design. You are correct of course, that bees like to travel UP not SIDEWAYS as I learned this lesson. Thus, this winter I am revising my Z-Top hive down to 20 frames max for the 2024 season.
Zach
NC
I love my horizontal hives in Florida!
Nice
You can have the best of both worlds by putting supers on top all the way across your horizontal hive and do your normal overwinter feeding. You would have to remove that one big lid though.
Just think how much easier inspections would be with a middle entrance and a divider board on each end! Bees put the brood by the entrance and nice clean surplus honey on the ends. Consider taller narrower Layens frames for overwintering.
Use a chain on each side. That's what I used on mine. Works great.
You can probably screw 4 pieces of plywood to the sides and run them to the ground during winter to block wind underneath and also trap some warmth from the soil. That soil sure makes a difference in water bowls for pets when you compare a regular bowl to the conventional plastic dog bowls that are hollow underneath. The hollow bowls trap the grounds heat and it takes a lot more to freeze them. I have horizontal hives and I’ll never go back to vertical Langstroth hives. I’m in Texas so I don’t really need to use the plywood.
You can use a wrap around feeder, that what I use ,and doesn't interfere with closing the hive.
Thank you for this good video. Thousands of bees flop their wings in the hives, so they generate a lot of heat. If you can insulate the hives with at least 2-inch-thick rigid foam, then you can keep most of the free heat inside. The foam should be covered so ants and termites will not tunnel in it. What you can also do is to put the bee box in an insulated shed in the winter.
We are getting into beekeeping and doing all our investigating right now so we can get started in the spring. We have considered a horizontal hive because of the heavy weight in lifting supers. This is great information. We don't seem to get enough info on horizontal hives and everyone we talk to said they don't work well or they don't know enough about them. We are interested in following you with this hive and too see how well it does. Thank you
Can pit 2 layers of double bubble on top for winter. 1 right under top of roof and one layer right above inner covers. Last year I used wool in my roof and after follower board and ut worked well. Not sure if you like wool though. I put it in pillowcases.
Enjoying your videos. Have you seen the Japanese hives? Basically a vertical box with two wires inside for the bees to build hive on. There are a few RUclips videos about them. They look interesting. Thoughts?
Use a BetterBee Ultimate feeder, should be OK under the taller section of the sloped roof
Round Rapid feeder works great.
Hinge Outlet carries locking lid supports, strong enough to lock a chair or folding table.
I run both Langs and Top Bars, and have not had problems overwintering my Top Bars. I'm in the midwest where we've had -15°F winters. I just make sure to leave enough honey on them. The biggest thing I see with Top Bar owners are they pull all or most of the honey, and then try to play catch-up in the autumn and winter with sugar syrup and fondant.
Leather, such as belt leather, could be attached to each side of the lid. I've seen older suitcases use that type or reinforcement.
How do you think it will overwinter?
I do believe if I was buying a new hive, I would like one of these. Thanks for sharing this video.
If you're not planning on moving it you can put up to four by four post and use a gate lock Are metal post
I've heard of beekeepers drilling a hole in the middle of the frames so the bees don't have to around the frames.
Tried that 10 years ago and it failed
I like the window under the roof. I can see using a lot of that.
I added two light weight chains on each side. Mine is made from 2x12 lumber.
Horizontal is the future. Make the opening totally adjustable and slidable to get traffic over empty frames. Find a way to make travel highways horizontally. Why has it taken so long to think outside the high hive mentality? Let's see if I'm right. I'm insulating my old grill and converting it. News at 11
My first Q (before watching video) is 'how do you keep the brood frames separate from the honey "super" frames? And how to adjust the size of box to size of hive (traditionally you'd aff/subtract boxes)?
Also, how to harvest the honey? I doubt these frames fit into the traditional centrifuge.
Seems less customizable and takes up more yard space. So if you have a smaller yard, but more than one hive, you'll be really crowded! But let's see how the video goes.
I have found with my horizontal hives, they inevitably never have their brood at the entrance, they usually start 5 frames in with brood rearing
Take a look at my new longlangstroth hived. Let me know what you think. Your videos are very helpful. I have had bees for 7 years in Upstate Idaho. Thank You jim
Chains do work great on mine.
One concern I would have is that the the inner covers (as shown in this video) have "bee space" under them. If you have the follower board in a position that does not like up exactly with the edge of one of the inner cover sections, meaning the cover spans the follower board, this means that the bees will have access over the top of the follower board. Most often I have seen these hives with much smaller slats used for the inner cover and they are completely flat and would sit flush with the top of rim leaving bee space for frames but sealing when the follower board is added. maybe not a big deal if its only one colony and you are trying to condense them, but if you have 3 colonies across divided with boards you may want to make sure they can't go between.
Great review! Thx.
David, here in NY two of my hives are strong and we are still in our flow but for some reason one of my queens is not laying. She is a first year queen. Any ideas? Grateful.
Use a chain on the lid on each end in case of wind
For easier overwintering, could you make a hole in foundations to allow the cluster to move laterally, so they need not break cluster?
I tried that 10 years ago in Langstroth hives and it was a failure
Could do a strap of sorts
You could put some 2 inch thick foam insulation foam board into the lid rather than the winter be kind😃 then remove just as easy
I can't help but think that you could Orient the frames front to back in three or four sections, they would be able to move across as a group. I'm also thinking that if you cut the lid to fit each section individually, you could open up one section or another without opening up the whole thing. You might even be able to open one section and set a honey super on it leave the other sections clothes. I know they do that with some top bar hives
I have a lot more space between the roof and the cover boards. On my horizontals I use rapid round feeders or Hive Alive fondant. I have 2" rigid insulation attached to the bottom of the roof.
Put the brood at one end - it can travel through the hive to use resources during winter.
I can not fathom in Illinois cold winters how a cluster can travel through frames in a horizontal position. They would have to break cluster and regroup which sometimes causes the colony to perish because the fail ronde cluster
Hey Dave, just lower your little roof, not the hinge! I started bee keeping with the horizontal hives. They are a great hive.
I would get lifters for like a hatch back for a car from the auto parts store and play with the placement so it opens and closes 100% couple of screws and your set
Can we get an update on this colony after the winter? I'm curious to see how bees are doing in your horizontal hive. I've been thinking of installing a horizontal Langstroth or Layens hive later this year.
Strut attached to top opening edge and side. I also have e a small rope attached to both so the top. An not open and push the hinge. I put bee exit cones on the top edges as well.
I northern areas a Layens hive would over winter better than a Langstroth
Wow… you are an amazing human to pay for the work on that hive! Question.. do you have a structure where we could pay for an hour of your time to virtually meet with people to help with hives? I am needing help :)
Mine have chains on each side Dave to support the top lid
Use a nylon webbed strap for the "strut" to retain the lid.
Man this thing is so clean! Im hearing alot of good about these guys and Bruce at bruce bees has ome and very solid company i would love to get one of these sometime!
Add cable outside of box top too bottom attachment
The advantage in winter is that you can give them a lot more insulation a lot more easily than in a vertical hive.
You probably need to replace your top boards with ones that are narrower. Those are like Langstroth frames in size, and the observation window/cover too, as cool as it is. A main management perk in horizontal hives is being able to remove as few cover boards as possible disturbing the bees less. Bottom blanket to insulate in winter and top insulation inside lid(cut foam to fit) you can buy big sheets at Lowes and Home Depot. You’ve most likely already addressed this since vid is 11 months old. I have no time to search through all your videos to look. It should overwinter well, like your little round hive. Good luck with your horizontal hive David.
It is a beautiful horizontal hive though. Hats off to my fellow North Carolinians on the build.
Question: Do you feel like using a non processed sugar when making supplemental food cakes makes any difference...it seems to me the honey would taste better using a more natural raw sugar instead of the refined stuff. What do you think?
you might want to put some type of skirting around the bottom to keep the wind out from under the hive
As to winter feeding. Could you not consider a larger intrance feeder? They work well and can be sheltered.
I live in the northern hemisphere near Canada I’m only 2 hours away from Canada. I like the idea of horizontal hives. I’m not getting any younger. Should I insulate the hive up to -40 climate with R 40 insulation?
how would you downsize the hive for winter? Is this one large hive or bricks down to a couple of smaller ones? (I've had bee for 6 weeks so have no ideas...)
Make communication holes in the
center of frames to facilitate cluster movement in the winter.
Tried that 10 years ago and didn't work
I used chain and eye bolts
Looks like it needs a bee escape in the lid space. This will allow any bees left in that space to get out
do you have any idea on how long it takes for a hive to fill the deep frames in a horizontal hive? I know there are several variables. On strong would you be able to collect honey one a year or twice per year? Thanks