Another thing about Magic Users is usually they have high intelligence and and speak more languages than most party members. In addition, I borrow the alchemy ability from Hyperborea 3e where they can discern potions vs poisons though with risk.
I do like the idea of read magic as the very basics of magic. One way I've ruled beginning spells is read magic, one of player's choosing and one more rolled randomly. I also have a house rule that spell casters can have their repertoire memorized. I might limit this if there's ever a higher level caster. I never liked the idea, that there are really interesting spells that no one ever memorizes and therefore never gets to cast simply because they're the ones that are so unlikely to be useful or critical. Low level magic-user is quite limited in casting despite this and needs to be played cleverly. I've just begun experimenting with the new Dolmenwood (based on B/X D&D) detect magic ability which is usable at will, but takes 1 turn of focus while touching the object and then there's a roll of 1-in-6 at first level, slowly rising from there. So there are many decisions made in that one act. Thanks for another great video! Just found your thief skill one and followed up with this. I suppose a subscription is in order.
I think i understand the intent of Gygax and Arneson in the naming of class " Magic User " and is exactly like " Fighter " or even later " Thief " - So that players themselves can see their character as a .. --Fill in the blank- like Warlock Magician Sorcerer Witch Wizard Alchemist Necromancer Enchanter ---- it was only later that TSR and then WotC gamified and added mechanics to the Thesaurus list of spellcasters into distinct things.
Starting in AD&D, magic users had spell books with a few first level spells assumed to be learned as part of their training. As such, Read Magic and Detect Magic are considered starters. As DM, I allow the players to choose their starting spells to some degree, within rules limits. I do make some suggestions and require at least a few non-combat spells in the book. I justify this by the logic that magic is this person's world so they would have some utility or general purpose spells as well.
Great video as always. A couple of points I'd like to comment on; First, I've never understood why so many people take issue with the name "Magic-User". I don't think it's "clumsily named" at all. It's meant to be generic, so that it can mean shamans, witches, warlocks, wizards... I've always felt the choice of name was rather elegant, and is inline with the naming conventions of the game (Clerics for all characters that call upon their god for power, Fighters for all characters that are good at fighting, etc.). The name "Wizard" conjures up specific images in the mind (Merlin, Dumbledor, Gandalf, Raistlin), but the term "magic-user" can mean ANYTHING. It's perfect. Secondly, you say "the player will have no control over which spells this will be" regarding the new spell(s) a player gains upon leveling up. While the Basic rulebook does not specifically address this issue, the Expert rulebook quite clearly states "Either the player or the DM may choose any new spells." regarding the new spells the player gains when leveling (X11). Which version of the rules are you referring to? I readily admit I am not as versed with OD&D and BECMI. I interpret the B/X spellbook and casting rules as meaning that scrolls are very valuable and important and are often a magic-user’s MAIN source of spells, even at high level, and I believe that this is what the original creators of the game intended. In my games, MU's are running around with a few spells in their heads, and scrolls falling out of their bags and pockets, because of their spellcasting comes from them! Regarding the house rules you suggested, I added the "Arcane" language to my games many years ago. It is by default the language that all MU use to write their spells and scrolls (thus negating the need for the read magic spell and getting rid of the whole "to choose or not to choose read magic at level 1" conundrum). Additionally, it's the default language for any magically-created creatures (golems, homunculi, etc.).
I find the name Magic-user to be too literal and therefore not very evocative. While you are right that there could be various types of magic-user, I don't think the difference between wizard, sorcerer, warlock etc makes much difference here. It is stranger when you introduce the Illusionist into the mix, as he is clearly also a Magic-user (but that's not really a BX thing). As magic-users have spellbooks, it feels like they are Wizards, rather than any other category. In my own games I refer to them as Mages (or Magi), since that word is relatively close to Magic-User anyway. In regards to not being able to choose the spell upon leveling up, I was referring to learning a spell from a tutor, as the tutor's own known spells would be determined by the DM. I was referring to the Rules Cyclopedia, however in the Basic Set (Menzer 1983) p38 it states that the DM should choose the spell on level-up. Thanks for your comments, it's always good to check on these things and notice how many small differences there are in each set that can have quite a big effect on the game.
Some OSR games are nicer, and even allow three random spells at the start plus Read Magic. At least one spell is likely to be something terribly good. The spell slots are still there. You have one spell per dungeon raid in practice. You just have a little more choice about which situations to be ready for, and what you will curse yourself for not having the right spell for. Some settings make new spells rare. The MU needs to find spells somewhere instead of researching them herself. Then you are much more limited to what you can find on adventures and what scrolls your DM stuff into the dungeon. Finding a spellbook is a great treasure. Finding a scroll forces you between learning the spell for later or using it now. Tutors are exceedingly rare and have their own demands before they accept students. A setting can have a special spell list. Spell x simply does not exist in this place. I've played in settings where attack spells more violent than Sleep were gone. Right now I play in one where magic is illegal, and spellbooks/scrolls are contraband items. Magic-users are pushed into the same underworld strata as drug dealers and organ-leggers and weird cultists.
I just read about magic research, and want to learn more. It talked about making your own spells, and then said it's up to dm to approve and set a spell level for them. How does one set a spell level?
"Do clerics use magic?" "Yes." "Why aren't they also known as magic users then?" This is always what vexed me. Wizard is a better name. Let's be honest.
Magic User is an attractive class if the DM is generous on gold and allows the MU to equip slings or darts. Otherwise, it's a difficult class to play. There's no way a d4 hit point weak character in robes should be charging into combat with a dagger.
The dagger is a defensive weapon in case something gets past the fighters. It doesn't make a lot of sense for Mr. 4 hitpoints to be on the front line, no.
New and old Magic User players listen up. Scrolls! You can write them (honest) and that's what your utility spells go on! So many bad players...come on now.
There is always too little money for an MU. Sometimes the rest of the group chips in so they can be sure they got a Hold Portal somewhere. Sometimes thieves have the ability to read and use but not make scrolls. A thief who can pull out her own Gaseous Form or Darkness spell isn't what they expect.
I interpret the B/X spellbook and casting rules as meaning that scrolls are very valuable and important and are often a magic-user’s main source of spells, and I believe that this is what the original creators of the game intended.
Another thing about Magic Users is usually they have high intelligence and and speak more languages than most party members. In addition, I borrow the alchemy ability from Hyperborea 3e where they can discern potions vs poisons though with risk.
That sounds correct to me, but does It works? Percentage as is the Thief skills? How does It works, I mean
I do like the idea of read magic as the very basics of magic. One way I've ruled beginning spells is read magic, one of player's choosing and one more rolled randomly.
I also have a house rule that spell casters can have their repertoire memorized. I might limit this if there's ever a higher level caster. I never liked the idea, that there are really interesting spells that no one ever memorizes and therefore never gets to cast simply because they're the ones that are so unlikely to be useful or critical. Low level magic-user is quite limited in casting despite this and needs to be played cleverly.
I've just begun experimenting with the new Dolmenwood (based on B/X D&D) detect magic ability which is usable at will, but takes 1 turn of focus while touching the object and then there's a roll of 1-in-6 at first level, slowly rising from there. So there are many decisions made in that one act.
Thanks for another great video! Just found your thief skill one and followed up with this. I suppose a subscription is in order.
I think i understand the intent of Gygax and Arneson in the naming of class " Magic User " and is exactly like " Fighter " or even later " Thief " - So that players themselves can see their character as a .. --Fill in the blank- like
Warlock
Magician
Sorcerer
Witch
Wizard
Alchemist
Necromancer
Enchanter
---- it was only later that TSR and then WotC gamified and added mechanics to the Thesaurus list of spellcasters into distinct things.
Fighting-Man might have been the original but I like Fighter.
Starting in AD&D, magic users had spell books with a few first level spells assumed to be learned as part of their training. As such, Read Magic and Detect Magic are considered starters. As DM, I allow the players to choose their starting spells to some degree, within rules limits. I do make some suggestions and require at least a few non-combat spells in the book. I justify this by the logic that magic is this person's world so they would have some utility or general purpose spells as well.
I really like the idea of getting random spells. Thanks!
Great video as always.
A couple of points I'd like to comment on;
First, I've never understood why so many people take issue with the name "Magic-User". I don't think it's "clumsily named" at all. It's meant to be generic, so that it can mean shamans, witches, warlocks, wizards... I've always felt the choice of name was rather elegant, and is inline with the naming conventions of the game (Clerics for all characters that call upon their god for power, Fighters for all characters that are good at fighting, etc.). The name "Wizard" conjures up specific images in the mind (Merlin, Dumbledor, Gandalf, Raistlin), but the term "magic-user" can mean ANYTHING. It's perfect.
Secondly, you say "the player will have no control over which spells this will be" regarding the new spell(s) a player gains upon leveling up. While the Basic rulebook does not specifically address this issue, the Expert rulebook quite clearly states "Either the player or the DM may choose any new spells." regarding the new spells the player gains when leveling (X11). Which version of the rules are you referring to? I readily admit I am not as versed with OD&D and BECMI.
I interpret the B/X spellbook and casting rules as meaning that scrolls are very valuable and important and are often a magic-user’s MAIN source of spells, even at high level, and I believe that this is what the original creators of the game intended. In my games, MU's are running around with a few spells in their heads, and scrolls falling out of their bags and pockets, because of their spellcasting comes from them!
Regarding the house rules you suggested, I added the "Arcane" language to my games many years ago. It is by default the language that all MU use to write their spells and scrolls (thus negating the need for the read magic spell and getting rid of the whole "to choose or not to choose read magic at level 1" conundrum). Additionally, it's the default language for any magically-created creatures (golems, homunculi, etc.).
I find the name Magic-user to be too literal and therefore not very evocative. While you are right that there could be various types of magic-user, I don't think the difference between wizard, sorcerer, warlock etc makes much difference here. It is stranger when you introduce the Illusionist into the mix, as he is clearly also a Magic-user (but that's not really a BX thing). As magic-users have spellbooks, it feels like they are Wizards, rather than any other category. In my own games I refer to them as Mages (or Magi), since that word is relatively close to Magic-User anyway.
In regards to not being able to choose the spell upon leveling up, I was referring to learning a spell from a tutor, as the tutor's own known spells would be determined by the DM. I was referring to the Rules Cyclopedia, however in the Basic Set (Menzer 1983) p38 it states that the DM should choose the spell on level-up.
Thanks for your comments, it's always good to check on these things and notice how many small differences there are in each set that can have quite a big effect on the game.
Such a good video - matter of fact, useful to new players, and succinct. Well done.
B/X seems to be popular but seems more rules-oriented compared to Holmes/Blueholme.
Some OSR games are nicer, and even allow three random spells at the start plus Read Magic. At least one spell is likely to be something terribly good. The spell slots are still there. You have one spell per dungeon raid in practice. You just have a little more choice about which situations to be ready for, and what you will curse yourself for not having the right spell for.
Some settings make new spells rare. The MU needs to find spells somewhere instead of researching them herself. Then you are much more limited to what you can find on adventures and what scrolls your DM stuff into the dungeon. Finding a spellbook is a great treasure. Finding a scroll forces you between learning the spell for later or using it now. Tutors are exceedingly rare and have their own demands before they accept students.
A setting can have a special spell list. Spell x simply does not exist in this place. I've played in settings where attack spells more violent than Sleep were gone. Right now I play in one where magic is illegal, and spellbooks/scrolls are contraband items. Magic-users are pushed into the same underworld strata as drug dealers and organ-leggers and weird cultists.
I just read about magic research, and want to learn more. It talked about making your own spells, and then said it's up to dm to approve and set a spell level for them. How does one set a spell level?
"Do clerics use magic?"
"Yes."
"Why aren't they also known as magic users then?"
This is always what vexed me. Wizard is a better name. Let's be honest.
Magic User is an attractive class if the DM is generous on gold and allows the MU to equip slings or darts. Otherwise, it's a difficult class to play. There's no way a d4 hit point weak character in robes should be charging into combat with a dagger.
The dagger is a defensive weapon in case something gets past the fighters. It doesn't make a lot of sense for Mr. 4 hitpoints to be on the front line, no.
All magic users should go by the nickname "gold sink."
Protection FROM the rest of the party? Damn you play rough
I push Light spell as a 2nd level spell and harder to cast.
New and old Magic User players listen up. Scrolls! You can write them (honest) and that's what your utility spells go on! So many bad players...come on now.
There is always too little money for an MU. Sometimes the rest of the group chips in so they can be sure they got a Hold Portal somewhere.
Sometimes thieves have the ability to read and use but not make scrolls. A thief who can pull out her own Gaseous Form or Darkness spell isn't what they expect.
I interpret the B/X spellbook and casting rules as meaning that scrolls are very valuable and important and are often a magic-user’s main source of spells, and I believe that this is what the original creators of the game intended.