Brief History of Ingria and the Ingrian Finns

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  • Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
  • #culture #history #follow
    The Finnic people cover a huge area and in today's video I take a look at Ingria and the Ingrian Finns

Комментарии • 106

  • @shyskit
    @shyskit 9 месяцев назад +9

    My grandfathers were shot against the wall, but our family still remembers. We are inkeri people

  • @lottaraatikainen3942
    @lottaraatikainen3942 Год назад +53

    Thank you for this. I'm partly Ingrian from my mother's side, but quite few Finns nowadays even know about Ingrians. This may be because the independence of Finland was partly bought by the blood of over 60 000 Ingrians after WWII. Especially the handing over of the Ingrian soldiers of the "kinship battalion", men who had been promised Finnish citizenship and who had fought in the worst places, was such a shameful deed that those responsible wanted it to be forgotten as quickly as possible. Those men were taken straight from the border to prison camps except the leaders who got shot right after being handed over. This is something that Finland still hasn't publicly acknowledged and apologised for as far as I know.
    The colours of the Ingrian flag which is "yellow as the sun", symbolise the wheat fields and the rivers of Ingria and the tile walls of St Petersburg. Ingrians weren't one homogenous group, dressing all in the same way and having all the same traditions. The main divide was between groups called äyrämöiset and savakot (as far as I know my ancestors were savakko) and different areas had different styles of clothing and different traditions.
    St Petersburg used to be "the biggest Finnish city in the world": there were more Finnish speaking people living there than in any city in Finland. There were also more than one school for Finnish kids there in the 19th century. My mother's grandmother taught languages - Russian, Swedish, German, French - in more than one of them. The "cleansing away of all non-Russians" started in Ingria already in the 20's, soon after the Bolshevik revolution, and people who were holding up the Ingrian culture - priests, teachers, writers etc. - were the first to go. Luckily my mother's grandparents had decided already in 1910 that it's high time to relocate, closed up the family business and moved with their six children to Helsinki where they became official citizens in 1915. That probably saved their lives - even if it also meant that my mother's grandfather ended up on the Suomenlinna prison camp during the civil war because the Whites thought a retired tailor from St Petersburg was a wery suspect character and quite probably a Russian spy. I've been told he survived the camp only because my mother's grandmother kept visiting the place and throwing food for him over the fence.

    • @Caldera01
      @Caldera01 Год назад +1

      As a Finn, I do remember going through the Ingrians and their mistreatment in history classes.
      As far as I know, Finnish views on Ingria and Ingrians remains highly positive and supportive, I have no doubt in my mind that we'd have an independent Ingrian nation had the wars gone different.
      Still, giving up one's brother is still shameful, but such is the role of the defeated, we unfortunately didn't get to dictate the terms.

    • @Qsen123
      @Qsen123 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@Caldera01 an independent ingria would have made less sense and been less likely than just an ingrian region in finland

  • @jrautanen
    @jrautanen Год назад +9

    Thank you for a good presentation! I am 25% Ingrian, my grandfather escaped to Finland just in time. The whole Northern Ingria was destroyed in 1930s and those relatives who stayed behind were captured, shot to death in prison, or deported to Kazakhstan and Siberia, sent to gulags in Chelyabinsk, Ural, etc. It was an ethnic cleansing totally equal to holocaust. Stalin was a total monster. It's incomprehensible to me that his popularity is constantly growing in Russia.

    • @vali11d1
      @vali11d1 7 месяцев назад +3

      Stalin was a monster and now Pootin .

  • @johncrwarner
    @johncrwarner Год назад +28

    When I went round the finno-Ugric people's museum
    in Tartu, Estonia
    I think the plight of the Ingrians was sad
    but the Votic people's was even sadder
    they were down to 20 native speakers
    I had friends in Estonia who were working on
    recording and potentially saving it
    by recording the language.

    • @johncrwarner
      @johncrwarner Год назад +3

      It is the Eesti Rahva Muuseum in Tartu.

  • @MariaM-ox3wp
    @MariaM-ox3wp Год назад +23

    Thanks, excellent video! My friend Lauri Randla of Ingrian descent has written and directed a film called ’Näkemiin, Neuvostoliitto’ that was the first ever fiction film in Ingrian language. His grandmother’s story is breathtaking, but I will not spoil it because he’s writing about that, too.

    • @IrishinFinland
      @IrishinFinland  Год назад +3

      Wow! Amazing! I'll check it out thanks!

    • @ralepej
      @ralepej Год назад +2

      Was good film, I watched it when I lived in Estonia. It was interesting, example "porisee" means "to speak"@@IrishinFinland

  • @Luko_Sullainen
    @Luko_Sullainen Год назад +6

    I am one of Ingrians, who lived in Saint-Petersbourg for novadays, but now I also leaved my Kotimaa. Thanks you, that you tell our story❤

  • @deonys-
    @deonys- Год назад +55

    Im one of the so called Russians. I have mainly Baltic and Fino-Ugric genes. There are a lot of enthusiastic people that are working towards liberation of our lands and republics. A lot of people are tired and started to learn their true identity , which is most likely fino-ugric based, not Slavic. And yeah, most of us are considered as extremists for the government, that’s why we leave Russia.

    • @riippumatonlinja
      @riippumatonlinja Год назад +2

      Hope that russians go live other side of ural mountains and small finnick and ugrians live harmony at this side.

    • @deonys-
      @deonys- Год назад +3

      @@riippumatonlinjathere is no “Russians”

    • @molotovribbentrop2839
      @molotovribbentrop2839 Год назад +9

      @@deonys- Northwestern Russians indeed are at least partly, Finnic. You find more Slavic people in the South.

    • @herramirtsaaja9032
      @herramirtsaaja9032 Год назад +6

      Russians especially those at the north are descended from the older tribes that lived there
      They only have adopted a new language
      But russian is a lot harsher, having less soft sounds than other slavic languages and its most likely because of uralic influence
      People living in moscow in 1400s were majority vepsian not russian, there are even church documents that habe survived from that era that are in vepsian
      Genetically russians are very close to finnish people but russians are also a very multiethnic nation
      East karelia is nowadays populated by people that speak mostly russian but their ancestors have lots of karelians in them
      Same applies to many other different regions of russia

    • @Defeat-Ruzzia--Delete-Putin
      @Defeat-Ruzzia--Delete-Putin Год назад +5

      Yes, I hope that Russians will come to respect their Finnic roots and try to become more like how the Finnish, Estonian, and Sámi people are today -- loving freedom and democratic values

  • @SamiJuntunen1
    @SamiJuntunen1 Год назад +40

    Imo it is the biggest shame of whole war that we had to return karelians and ingrians to soviet union even when they were 100% finnish and joined armyas volu teers. There are great books of finnish soldiers (from karelia and ingria) going to gulaks even as late as 1947.

    • @lottaraatikainen3942
      @lottaraatikainen3942 Год назад +4

      Ingrians who had changed sides and fought in the Finnish army were still being hunted even in the 50's.

    • @SamiJuntunen1
      @SamiJuntunen1 Год назад +4

      @@lottaraatikainen3942 Damn... Did all of the go to gulags even if they were just civilians? I think they did. Even women.

    • @Elvajaak
      @Elvajaak 3 месяца назад

      same situation with estonians. Many guys who were fought on finnish side were handed over to soviet union.

    • @SamiJuntunen1
      @SamiJuntunen1 3 месяца назад +1

      @@Elvajaak Yes. Some got away to sweden (with warnings that what would happen if they did not leave).Some did not listen (did not understand the situation) and some had no warnings. I am sorry I forgot to mention those Estonian volunteers! There are several books here that tell part of their story.

  • @jlcop
    @jlcop Год назад +10

    Thank you for exposing a piece of Finnish history that I had never heard of.

  • @svoboduingrii
    @svoboduingrii 6 месяцев назад +2

    Thank you very much for the video! Very interesting!

  • @Erin_-
    @Erin_- Год назад +6

    Ever thought about making some video about Irish history? I would love for other finns to see about the independence war and many struggles Ireland has been through. Great video!

  • @bertillassenius8604
    @bertillassenius8604 Год назад +7

    When I grew up in Turku, we had the privilege of having an Ingrian caretaker in the house where I lived. They were childless and loved children, so we kids had good days. The Klementjeffs were Greek Orthodox. I told about them to an Ingrian I met in Sweden. He used to explain what strange people they were. But he just snorted when I told him about my acquaintances - because they were Orthodox. To him it was a lower class…

    • @okkimgreenhead6554
      @okkimgreenhead6554 2 месяца назад

      The Swedish and Russian Empires and their wars divided up Finland,or more domesticated and forced taxes on Finno-Ugric,Baltic Finns,stole "our native language",our own "religion",killed our people. Replaced or forced their ways on us. The separation would be at hand,and also compensations from these Moskowithyc,Swedish Kings and Governments that attacked a Native People like the Finns are of Europe.

  • @RyanRyzzo
    @RyanRyzzo Год назад +7

    My best friend is of Ingrian origin. Proud as hell.
    Threatens to smack me with a bundle of rye when I tease her.

  • @fortuna7469
    @fortuna7469 Год назад +1

    Outstanding work, thank you!

  • @sukukansojenystavat2173
    @sukukansojenystavat2173 Год назад +2

    Thanks for the video! Actually Ingria is not the name of the isthmus. It is called Karelian Isthmus which borders to Rajajoki river. Southbound that river begins the historical area of Ingria. Although Valkeasaari municipal settlement in Ingria is sometimes mentioned as a part of Karelian Isthmus.

    • @okkimgreenhead6554
      @okkimgreenhead6554 2 месяца назад

      Freedom for the Karelian,Vepsät,Inkerit,Setot and all Finno-Ugric people that have been forced to live in a Colony of the Communists(Stalin,Lenin,Trotsky) and Tsars. Northern Russia and the Baltic Sea areas are Finno Ugric Native peoples lands from the beginning. The Swedish/Russian Empires with their Mad and greedy lords just exploited the land and Native peoples. If this happened today,there would be the same talk on news that we hear of Ukrainians,Palestinians these days.

  • @dasarath5779
    @dasarath5779 Год назад +4

    paul ariste made many good books and articles on the votians. tons of interesting stuff happend with the votians. for example: they may have been the kylfings mentioned in many old norse sagas. i suggest making a video on them aswell!

    • @molotovribbentrop2839
      @molotovribbentrop2839 Год назад +4

      Not very likely that they are those Kylfing people, Votes never lived in northern Finland and Norway, where they are mentioned to have fought against Norwegians.

    • @dasarath5779
      @dasarath5779 Год назад

      @@molotovribbentrop2839 yeah but it is still an interesting theory. and the kylfings are interesting

  • @vasara2385
    @vasara2385 Год назад +5

    Unfortunately, the map seen here 0:30 is not very accurate. Because “Finnic” is a term used specifically for Baltic-Finnic peoples (Finns, Estonians, Karelians, Vepsians, Izhorians, Votians and Livonians) and not the Saamics or the Permics. And the language that used to be spoken by the majority at Finland’s southeastern border and along the Karelian Isthmus and Ingria was not Karelian or Ingrian, but Finnish.
    Another important thing to keep in mind is that the term “Ingrian Finns” is only used for the Finnish-speaking inhabitants of Ingria who mostly descended from Finnish settlers from Eastern Finland (Savo specifically) and the Karelian Isthmus. The native people of Ingria (Izhorians and Votians) are often not included in this group.

  • @Erkele
    @Erkele Год назад +18

    There was also older, original, Finnic population named Izhorians there. Also finnic tribes lived where is nowadays st Petersburg BEFORE Russians. Stolen land from finnic people.

  • @ilokivi
    @ilokivi Год назад

    Thanks for this informative video. First learned of the Ingrians from a Malysian friend working in Helsinki, soon after arriving in Finland as an exchange student in the late summer of 1990. Not much could be learned at that time, as little was easily available or documented on the history of the Inkerilaiset, their relationships with Finland, Estonia and Russia and what has become of them. Whereas most of the residents of Finnish Karelia were evacuated to Finland in 1944 and treated as citizens, the right of return put into affect by President Koivisto in 1990 for Ingrians appears to have been ambivalent. Partly because Finland is linguistically and geographically distinct from Ingria, and partly because the application of the policy was subject to Finns' perception of Ingrians as distant cousins rather than kindred as well as Finland's relationship with the Russian Federation after 1991.

    • @timoterava7108
      @timoterava7108 6 месяцев назад

      Not "most" but practically all (AFAIK only 19 stayed) residents were evacuated from the ceded part of the Finnish Karelia in (1940 and) 1944.
      They were treated as citizens because that's exactly what they were - Finns just like the others.
      The (Lutheran) Ingrian Finns are not linguistically distinct - they are Finnish-speaking Finns. However their dialect has been somewhat influenced by russian.
      The (Orthodox) indigenous Finnic Ingrians - the Izhorians and the Votes - are a bit more distant.
      The problem with the right of the Ingrians to "return" was, that because of the decades of oppression and russification, many of them had lost much of their language and culture.
      The older people still identified themselves as Ingrians and spoke Finnish. However already the middle-aged and especially the younger ones less so.
      At first it was enough to have one of your grandparents to be Finnish, to be eligible to move to Finland - with your spouse and children. Later at least two Finnish grandparents were required.
      So - at worst a 25% Finnish, russified "Ingrian" moved to Finland with a 100% russian spouse and 12,5% Finnish children, none of whom spoke Finnish or had any connection to Ingrian culture.

  • @heh9392
    @heh9392 Год назад +5

    You didn't mention the origin of those Ingrians, they came during the Swedish Empire times mainly from Savo and settled for better farming and trading grounds that Ingria offered.

    • @riippumatonlinja
      @riippumatonlinja Год назад +2

      hmm, tässä pitäs erottaa inkeroiset ja inkeriläiset. Ainoastaan jälkimmäiset ovat savosta muuttaneita. And english, there is ingrians and google translator gives ingersoll? however two diffirent groups where latter are originally live at ingria and ingrians are moved from savo about year 1500(moved from swedish owned finland for lower taxation to build settlements). I dont even know if there is translation for inkeroiset. Both are small group, at max about 120 000 people all together at best times. thou perhaps big world history didnt know them?

    • @larrywave
      @larrywave Год назад +2

      ​@@riippumatonlinjaIzhorians

    • @ralepej
      @ralepej Год назад +1

      Yes he mentioned: ruclips.net/video/gG6NcW3UJFw/видео.html
      Of course about Izhorians he could have mention that their religion was orthodox.

  • @andrewliberman7694
    @andrewliberman7694 9 месяцев назад

    Thanks!

  • @avari6167
    @avari6167 7 месяцев назад +2

    Shame that russians took our land and destroyed those areas and language 😢 we always wanted live in peace and never wanted to harm anyone and it will be like that but never give up if someone attacks us. All ingrian wanted to be here end of war but Stalin decide to murder them or send them to gulag 😢 they just wanted to live in Finland where they belong

  • @454FatJack
    @454FatJack Год назад

    1323 treaty most important about the border east/west

  • @jhkarjal
    @jhkarjal Год назад +2

    eka

  • @carlossaraiva8213
    @carlossaraiva8213 Год назад +3

    I wish Ingria and Karelia were independent countries from russia, with the return of the ingrisns and karelians back from thrir forced deportations, and the kicking out of the russian trespassers.

    • @newsky8786
      @newsky8786 11 месяцев назад +3

      Tell me, who is illegally crossing the border? I have lived in St. Petersburg since birth, 2 generations. This is my home, my homeland, should I leave it?

    • @carlossaraiva8213
      @carlossaraiva8213 11 месяцев назад +1

      @@newsky8786 you are russina and not ingrian? then yes, you should leave. russians are pestilances and ursurpers. russians have no claims of naturalization outside of Muscovia. all russians are interlopers and squaters.

    • @joco8290
      @joco8290 11 месяцев назад +1

      @@carlossaraiva8213 But Petrograd was built by Russians.

    • @taivolepp4113
      @taivolepp4113 7 месяцев назад

      I wish Vadja and Isuri were independet countries from russia, with the return of the vadjans and isuris back from their forced deportation, and the kicking out of the ingrian and russian trespassers. Wait, ingrians are back home!

    • @timoterava7108
      @timoterava7108 6 месяцев назад +2

      ​@@joco8290
      FYI - St. Petersburg was built on Finnish land, in the middle of the Finns, originally by the enslaved Finns and on the Finnish bones.
      All the original place names in Ingria - St. Petersburg included - are in Finnish.

  • @Northman6
    @Northman6 Год назад

    5:41 its The flaggs of Sweden Finland and Norway

  • @ralepej
    @ralepej Год назад +5

    You didnt covered Soviet terror between 1920-1939.
    I quete Regina Bauer here:
    "The early 20th century brought civil war to Russia and Finland, affecting Ingria, with a population of around 130,000. In 1919, an Ingrian Finnish breakaway movement emerged, aiming to establish an independent Northern Ingrian republic and unite with newly independent Finland.
    Starting in 1928, violence erupted with compulsory collectivization in Ingria. Approximately 18,000 people were forcibly deported from Northern Ingria, while another 7,000 were sent to different regions, aiming to instill fear and enforce collective farming.
    In subsequent years, more deportations took place, totaling 20,000 to Siberia and Central Asia. This expulsion of Finns from their ancestral lands contributed to the tensions leading to the Finnish-Russian war.
    Churches, cultural activities, and social organizations were shut down by 1932, and by 1937, Ingrian cultural life came to a standstill. Вuring the blockade of Leningrad, 25,000--30,000 Finns were deported to Siberia.
    In 1937, just preceding the total dispersion of the Ingrians, all Finnish schools were russified, most of the intellectuals killed and the Ingrian cultural life was completely extinguished."

  • @БорисПанков-з6д
    @БорисПанков-з6д 9 месяцев назад +4

    Когда-нибудь Ингрия станет свободной республикой

    • @russian_supremacy
      @russian_supremacy 9 месяцев назад +1

      когда свиньи будут летать и когда тебя из дурки выпишут

    • @vali11d1
      @vali11d1 7 месяцев назад +1

      Never

    • @БорисПанков-з6д
      @БорисПанков-з6д 7 месяцев назад +1

      @@vali11d1 Never say never

  • @Pyhantaakka
    @Pyhantaakka Год назад +7

    There was persecution by soviets already before the WWII. There is document on Yle Areena "Inkerinmaa".

  • @andreyvasilev
    @andreyvasilev 10 месяцев назад +1

    Make a video about vepsian people 🙏🏻

  • @larrywave
    @larrywave Год назад +5

    At 5:30 its karelian state flag

    • @larrywave
      @larrywave Год назад +1

      Does anybody know what building it is ?

    • @Erkele
      @Erkele Год назад +5

      @@larrywave Vanha Ylioppilastalo, Helsingissä.

    • @larrywave
      @larrywave Год назад +3

      @@Erkele kiitän

  • @editingmachine
    @editingmachine Год назад +1

    Hey! Great video! We've been loving your content. 🔥

  • @BongoJ89
    @BongoJ89 10 месяцев назад +2

    ангажированная чушь