I honestly hadn't even considered that. 😂 You're probably right. That section was mostly to highlight that people do use some terms loosely, I'd still be VERY surprised if it was a blunt steel knife though to be honest...
No, it was clearly a real shot, no one denies that. "Real knife" vs "fake knife" has always referred to the kind of knife thrown. All the stories about it are that he was supposed to physically throw a fake knife, but threw a real one instead. Not that he was supposed to throw nothing at all for them to composite something in later.
@@jacobclark6002 Perhaps the internet speculators didn't consider a digital knife, but production did, and I think that's what the quote from the director in this video was referring to. The rumours are based on the quote. I don't have a stake in the rumours, I'm just commenting on the quote.
My guess is that by "real knife" he meant it wasn't CGI. For example like the CGI arrows that Legolas machine-fired in the siege of Helm's Deep (too fast for a human to do - unless trained for years, maybe).
The stories have never been that he was supposed to throw nothing at all. But that he was supposed to physically throw a fake knife, and threw a real one instead.
@@bombfog1 Eugene is in fact returning to making videos, he wanted to spend his time out of the spotlight focusing on his training, and catching up on Attack on Titan. Expect something really soon. 👍
This makes more sense than people saying "I thought they meant 'fake knife' as in a CGI/composite." "I thought he was supposed to physically throw nothing" is what they're saying and that makes absolutely zero sense.
Eh, doesn't matter. If the guy deflected a thrown object and that's a prop knife? Works for me. Still a physical item on set. Of course it wasn't sharp, in the words of Granny Weatherwax, you just can't trust actors with the real thing. They'd hurt themselves.
I can tell you that the lawsuit resulting of the throwing of a real knife to someone in a film studio would have been enough for cancel the filming of the whole trilogy.
Yeah I had a feeling. Honestly though, I’m a little relieved because it means Vigo wasn’t in any real danger. You know, apart from a metal knife like object being hurled at him.
We were practicing throwing swords to see if we could parry them, and I tried hanging and turning the sword away, and it sort of balanced on my mid-blade at its balance point for an instant, then I felt the hilt begin to slip and fall forward, so I cast my point out into Longpoint, launching the thrown sword back at my instructor, point forward, but about 15 degrees off target due to me turning in the parry. We couldn’t reproduce it so nicely as that, but it was on like the 3rd try and stunned us all, immediately adding helmets to our throwers… 😂
Welcome back, KnightSquire! Would absolutely love to see a video of you commenting on or giving the background to Lord of the Rings fights, or basically anything Lord of the Rings you find interesting!
Isn't it the fact that it's so incredibly stupid to have live animation at all on that set exactly what Alec Baldwin's defence was built on?? It shouldn't have been there, and it shouldn't have been identical. I stand by the fact that it's unbelievable they would have a practical sharp around at all, let alone have it nearby for throwing. Knives and a pretend knife that you would throw at someone on a set ARE NOT similar. And you wouldn't have a half blind person grabbing em and throwing em. I think the point stands.
@ my point I’m making is it can happen as evident with the Rust movie set so it’s not impossible it could’ve happened on LOTR. Think of a movie set as just like any other work place and you wouldn’t believe the amount of stupid things that happen in a place of work
@TheMan-je5xq I understand your point, I don't think you understand mine fully though. Comparing live rounds, that in my (and the courts) opinion were nigh indistinguishable from the dummy rounds, that WERE being deliberately shot in the direction of a human being, Is not comparable to the difference inherent in a dummy knife that you throw at anyone. Again... It was intended, and obviously wasn't sharp. An outlier about a bullet, is not comparable, which is why I wouldn't bring up what happened to Brandon Lee either. People don't accidentally use sharp swords on set... You'd know immediately. But we can agree to disagree I suppose. I'm not not accounting for human error... But the people making tLotR always seemed extremely well prepared, so I always doubted the myths about what happened. 👍
Absolutely, I started the club probably about 9 years ago, started as a study group and then I spent about 5 years (after lots of experience) as the instructor. Now a few of my awesome long term guys instruct the beginners, I mostly instruct our sparring members and fence these days. ❤ The new fight reviews (one of which is out next week) will have sections showing examples of what I would do differently, they're all filmed at the club. 😁
@@Kretterlee see how you said "butter knife" and not "real knife"... I feel like you're proving my point, it's the context and the choice of words. 👍 You added the important part, you didn't just say "a knife is typically not sharp" because that would have been stupid because they are. "Knife" and "butter knife" mean different things, especially in the context I'm providing.
You dont need a sharp knife to stick a tree, im a long time knife thrower, you can throw a screwdriver into a tree easy. You also dont need to be a badass to deflect a thrown object with a handheld tool, baseball exists. But regardless, neither of those things seems plausible for a film set, im fairly certain that no one is going around throwing sharp steel at their expensive actors.
While I agree with your findings/conclusions I will say having props and their real counterparts near each other I guess isn't unheard of? I mean this in reference to Alec Baldwin's murder of the Cinematographer for the Rust film because they had real bullets on set.
So, your entire point is based on a hunch and distrust of your own sources, solid. Also, given the Alec Baldwin case, it's naive to think that there is no chance or reason for a real knife to be thrown. Still very likely, it wasn't real, but still, especially given your own sources, there's no reason to suspect it wasn't real.
@@luciensand7670 just a fun topic man, tbh I believed the stories for a long while... and whenever I googled it came up with a bunch of Reddit posts or articles continuing the myth. Maybe you're a better googler than me, I had to dig a bit. 🤣
Tricky one... I suppose that's a question of how much you can remove from an object before it stops being that object. If you stripped a car of all but it's door, I wouldn't call it a car. I think a knife being a singular item is easier to define on these terms. We do it in HEMA all the time, we call blunts and feders "swords" but they aren't swords, they are "blunt swords", or "training weapons" but everyone knows what you mean. The specificity of "real knife" is just important in this particular case. You wouldn't call a metal bar a wrench... unless it does the job a wrench does. I guess in your example, it's a "broken car" or "car without wheels". Put it this way, you wouldn't be happy if someone sold you it as a "CAR" and it had no wheels. 😂
I don't know where you got sharp from. Also not all knives are sharp, sharpness is a poor definition for a knife. This video is pedantic for no reason.
@@thepenguinhousea knife absolutely does have to be sharp... I don't think declaring sharpness as a defining feature of a knife is all that controversial a thing to say. 🤣 The point of the video is getting to the reality of what actually happened... I can't not be scrupulous of the details. People hear "real knife" and make obvious assumptions as to the risk, and pretending they don't is just a bad faith argument. Thanks for watching. 👋
@@KnightSquire The risk is a hunk of metal thrown at him the sharpness doesn't add that much. Also we have all kinds of dull knives we use everyday, sharpness doesn't determine if something is a knife or not. Thats like saying a gun that shoots blanks is not a gun.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Next week's video is about a film with some of the daftest sword fights I've ever seen.
If you want to know what happened in that scene, watch the extras in the extended editions of the movies.
I take "real knife" to mean "not composited in in post-production".
I honestly hadn't even considered that. 😂 You're probably right.
That section was mostly to highlight that people do use some terms loosely, I'd still be VERY surprised if it was a blunt steel knife though to be honest...
No, it was clearly a real shot, no one denies that. "Real knife" vs "fake knife" has always referred to the kind of knife thrown. All the stories about it are that he was supposed to physically throw a fake knife, but threw a real one instead. Not that he was supposed to throw nothing at all for them to composite something in later.
@@jacobclark6002 Perhaps the internet speculators didn't consider a digital knife, but production did, and I think that's what the quote from the director in this video was referring to. The rumours are based on the quote. I don't have a stake in the rumours, I'm just commenting on the quote.
My guess is that by "real knife" he meant it wasn't CGI. For example like the CGI arrows that Legolas machine-fired in the siege of Helm's Deep (too fast for a human to do - unless trained for years, maybe).
That's what I always assumed people meant. I always assumed it wasn't a sharp or even metal knife and Viggo wasn't actually in mortal danger lol
The stories have never been that he was supposed to throw nothing at all. But that he was supposed to physically throw a fake knife, and threw a real one instead.
I feel like it’s been 3-4 years since I’ve seen a video from you. Happy that you are back.
Thank you for the support, back to weekly updates now I have the setup, I already have a bunch filmed. 😁👍
i wonder if ninja eugene will make a cameo
@ Ha Ha Ha! God, I hope so. He’s the reason I subscribed so many years ago.
Please please please bring back Eugene lol
@@bombfog1 Eugene is in fact returning to making videos, he wanted to spend his time out of the spotlight focusing on his training, and catching up on Attack on Titan.
Expect something really soon. 👍
I assume when Peter Jackson says "real" he just meant wood and steel as opposed to rubber.
This makes more sense than people saying "I thought they meant 'fake knife' as in a CGI/composite."
"I thought he was supposed to physically throw nothing" is what they're saying and that makes absolutely zero sense.
Eh, doesn't matter.
If the guy deflected a thrown object and that's a prop knife? Works for me. Still a physical item on set.
Of course it wasn't sharp, in the words of Granny Weatherwax, you just can't trust actors with the real thing. They'd hurt themselves.
So it was probably blunt. I can live with that. Epic reflexes still exist :)
I can tell you that the lawsuit resulting of the throwing of a real knife to someone in a film studio would have been enough for cancel the filming of the whole trilogy.
"i dont mean to spoils anyones fun"
Proceeds to ruin my fun
He's back!
look who remembered his password
Hallelujah he’s alive
Glad to see you back!
I find it difficult to believe that anyone thought it was a sharp knife, but hey, "real knife" isn't exactly a helpful term in this context.
Glad to see you're back :-)
Yeah I had a feeling. Honestly though, I’m a little relieved because it means Vigo wasn’t in any real danger.
You know, apart from a metal knife like object being hurled at him.
I don’t think anyone ever thought they threw a real knife on set, just that they were impressed with his reflexes
We were practicing throwing swords to see if we could parry them, and I tried hanging and turning the sword away, and it sort of balanced on my mid-blade at its balance point for an instant, then I felt the hilt begin to slip and fall forward, so I cast my point out into Longpoint, launching the thrown sword back at my instructor, point forward, but about 15 degrees off target due to me turning in the parry. We couldn’t reproduce it so nicely as that, but it was on like the 3rd try and stunned us all, immediately adding helmets to our throwers… 😂
hwo did this guy age backwards
The return of the king
Welcome back, KnightSquire! Would absolutely love to see a video of you commenting on or giving the background to Lord of the Rings fights, or basically anything Lord of the Rings you find interesting!
Welcome back! Nice to see you again⚔️
2:10 OK this is a little silly to say after what happened on the movie Rust with Alec Baldwin
Isn't it the fact that it's so incredibly stupid to have live animation at all on that set exactly what Alec Baldwin's defence was built on??
It shouldn't have been there, and it shouldn't have been identical.
I stand by the fact that it's unbelievable they would have a practical sharp around at all, let alone have it nearby for throwing.
Knives and a pretend knife that you would throw at someone on a set ARE NOT similar.
And you wouldn't have a half blind person grabbing em and throwing em.
I think the point stands.
@ my point I’m making is it can happen as evident with the Rust movie set so it’s not impossible it could’ve happened on LOTR. Think of a movie set as just like any other work place and you wouldn’t believe the amount of stupid things that happen in a place of work
@TheMan-je5xq I understand your point, I don't think you understand mine fully though.
Comparing live rounds, that in my (and the courts) opinion were nigh indistinguishable from the dummy rounds, that WERE being deliberately shot in the direction of a human being, Is not comparable to the difference inherent in a dummy knife that you throw at anyone.
Again... It was intended, and obviously wasn't sharp.
An outlier about a bullet, is not comparable, which is why I wouldn't bring up what happened to Brandon Lee either.
People don't accidentally use sharp swords on set... You'd know immediately.
But we can agree to disagree I suppose. I'm not not accounting for human error... But the people making tLotR always seemed extremely well prepared, so I always doubted the myths about what happened. 👍
Happy to see you back, how did the hema classes go? Are you still doing it?
Absolutely, I started the club probably about 9 years ago, started as a study group and then I spent about 5 years (after lots of experience) as the instructor.
Now a few of my awesome long term guys instruct the beginners, I mostly instruct our sparring members and fence these days. ❤
The new fight reviews (one of which is out next week) will have sections showing examples of what I would do differently, they're all filmed at the club. 😁
Welcome back! See you next year! 🎉
@@eth3244 got another 6 videos filmed and another 2 edited. Longer than this one mind you. Next one next week mate. Ta for watching.
Our channels are back! You're not dead! Praise God!
Good video. Maybe that's how it went. I'm curious what Ninja Eugene thinks about that scene. Send my regards to him :D
hey guys! Knightsquire is back!
@@MaxTheGamingMan funny fight review on a daft film next week. 😁👍
Ta for watching
Knives don’t have to be sharp, a butter knife is typically not sharp but it is still a knife.
and if you fling a butterknife at full strength it's going to hurt especially in the face
@@Kretterlee see how you said "butter knife" and not "real knife"... I feel like you're proving my point, it's the context and the choice of words. 👍
You added the important part, you didn't just say "a knife is typically not sharp" because that would have been stupid because they are. "Knife" and "butter knife" mean different things, especially in the context I'm providing.
But who would win a sword fight? Santa or the Tooth Fairy? Nice to see a new video from you!
Holy shit KnightSquire's back????
It seems so.
Nice to see you again. Good video, geat deep dive.
So...
See you in about 3 years?
Next weeks is already ready to go. Back to it. Thanks for watching despite the wait. ❤
You're alive?
@@FalseEdgeHEMA and back for good. ⚔️♥️
You dont need a sharp knife to stick a tree, im a long time knife thrower, you can throw a screwdriver into a tree easy. You also dont need to be a badass to deflect a thrown object with a handheld tool, baseball exists. But regardless, neither of those things seems plausible for a film set, im fairly certain that no one is going around throwing sharp steel at their expensive actors.
While I agree with your findings/conclusions I will say having props and their real counterparts near each other I guess isn't unheard of? I mean this in reference to Alec Baldwin's murder of the Cinematographer for the Rust film because they had real bullets on set.
Now do one about the helmet a.k.a. the battle of helm's feet
So, your entire point is based on a hunch and distrust of your own sources, solid.
Also, given the Alec Baldwin case, it's naive to think that there is no chance or reason for a real knife to be thrown. Still very likely, it wasn't real, but still, especially given your own sources, there's no reason to suspect it wasn't real.
wow you alive
Nice XVIIIc in the background
The Truth??? wow, great video, what a deep dive...like..one google search...respect
@@luciensand7670 just a fun topic man, tbh I believed the stories for a long while... and whenever I googled it came up with a bunch of Reddit posts or articles continuing the myth.
Maybe you're a better googler than me, I had to dig a bit. 🤣
Splitting hairs seems exhausting
yeah I think most people thought "real" meant it wasn't a light prop not that it would have killed him
What happened to the nice blonde chap?
car with no wheels is not a car?
Tricky one... I suppose that's a question of how much you can remove from an object before it stops being that object. If you stripped a car of all but it's door, I wouldn't call it a car.
I think a knife being a singular item is easier to define on these terms.
We do it in HEMA all the time, we call blunts and feders "swords" but they aren't swords, they are "blunt swords", or "training weapons" but everyone knows what you mean.
The specificity of "real knife" is just important in this particular case.
You wouldn't call a metal bar a wrench... unless it does the job a wrench does.
I guess in your example, it's a "broken car" or "car without wheels".
Put it this way, you wouldn't be happy if someone sold you it as a "CAR" and it had no wheels. 😂
I don't know where you got sharp from. Also not all knives are sharp, sharpness is a poor definition for a knife. This video is pedantic for no reason.
@@thepenguinhousea knife absolutely does have to be sharp... I don't think declaring sharpness as a defining feature of a knife is all that controversial a thing to say. 🤣
The point of the video is getting to the reality of what actually happened... I can't not be scrupulous of the details.
People hear "real knife" and make obvious assumptions as to the risk, and pretending they don't is just a bad faith argument.
Thanks for watching. 👋
@@KnightSquire The risk is a hunk of metal thrown at him the sharpness doesn't add that much. Also we have all kinds of dull knives we use everyday, sharpness doesn't determine if something is a knife or not. Thats like saying a gun that shoots blanks is not a gun.