I’m a new mobile game dev so take this with a grain of salt but I’m going to continue to make mobile games for one main reason. I have released one game so far and while it only ever got a handful of users (due to a $0 advertising budget) it has instead helped me find contract work making mobile games for others. Only a handful of interesting parties and meetings so far but having a decent website and proof that you can get past the google play barrier can put you ahead of others trying to sell their dev skills - and compared to the 0 interviews I’ve had trying to get dev jobs at a studio this is pretty good. I’m still working on my own mobile games and a steam game soon but making games for others is one of the reasons I think that indie devs can still get away with focusing on mobile.
Does it put food on the table though is the question? And scalability is a huge factor. Can you scale your current process up to a business? Does the skills your learning translate into real world jobs? A lot of the time it's no for game dev in general (earning enough to live on) There's a huge and I mean huge player base on mobile, everyone and their grandma has phones to play phone games but not everyone has consoles and a gaming PC! So if your making it work that's awesome! Keep in mind where you want to be not where your at! I hope the success keeps growing for you!
@@AstriaTVTruthExposed I'd say the skills & benefits translate. My first commercial game impressed the hiring cmte on my current FT job - I walked into the interview with one guy already singing my praises. My future-boss said I was the only applicant who came in with a finished, published piece of software. And that's in "boring" enterprise dev, nothing to do with games.
That's awesome what you've done, but in a way, you aren't really who this video is aimed at - which actually helps you! From how you described it, you've actually become that group that ports the games to mobile; while you are making a game for Steam, as you said, you are specializing in the mobile space. You've jumped into the niche of mobile ports, which means for all of us who take the advice in this video, we are now YOUR potential customers! (In other words, in the nicest possible way I can: stop trying to disagree and market your own services! I say that slightly in jest and certainly not to offend, but still with some seriousness.)
I think the optimal strategy is to target PC first and if your game is a success you make a paid mobile port. This is what many popular steam games did like Stardew Valley, Slay the Spire and Balatro. That way no need to worry about ads, etc... So maybe design your game PC first but with mobile controls in mind so that porting is easy when you reach that point.
If you know how mobile works, you would focus on mobile first, do you know on Mobile you can literally have a Game that generates revenue without having to advertise or do anything?.....mobile has the strange attribute that anyone can literally have downloads without a doing anything.... If you doubt me... Read about App store Algorithm and ASO
Everything you've said about mobile is so true, keep up these awesome videos! I've worked at mobile games studios for about 13 years now, it's very soul sucking watching the decisions made by the non-creative business types. While effective in pulling in revenue when done right, the end results of the games are not exactly games I am excited about, in the end they really feel like experiences, and at the end of the day, to maximize money from users . I'm lucky my current studio doesn't mind employees working on game related side projects, so any indie work I can do is very refreshing.
I'm working on a mobile game on unreal engine, and I'm struggling to get touch screen inputs to work Not with the joysticks, but just touching, like Angry Birds. Any advice?
I have worked on hypercasual games in the past with a well established company here in Pakistan. From what I know, everything you are saying is absolutely true. However for anyone who still wants to make mobile games, I think one of the few feasible options for indie developers is to work with mobile publishers. They have both the money and experience to help you make a game that can perform well in the market (they WILL take most of the money) but be prepared to work on extremely lame stuff if you want financial success. Working on those games does help to be able to look at your games as products though. Many indie game developers could use that perspective imo.
As someone who have made mobile games, I will gladly tell you, mobile is not what you think it is, it's better to have a Game on mobile then when it has grown, take it to PC than doing the other way round, mobile has this strange good attribute that enables you to have downloads and earn revenue without even having to market or showcase your game on social media... I've tested it and it worked, made a game without showing anyone, released it on the App store and Play store and after few weeks.... Started getting organic downloads up to 100k+......yes Mobile has a huge competition compared to PC but if you understand the concept, you'll scale through
Especially with iOS that has a pretty consistent hardware. If I'm not mistaken, it's better to invest your development time in Apple. Would you mind sharing your experience with them so far?
The one thing I think mobile games are also good for is teaching game design because they are usually easier to breakdown and look over what the designers did that worked and what didn't work.
Thanks for at least tackling the subject! You're describing is mostly the AAA or AA tier. Indie mobile has a different approach. I give a whole 1hr talk on this, but some quick-tips: + Mobile players are everyone! Once you accept that, you can find your niche for whatever game you prefer to make. + Midcore mobile games support short play sessions, like 5-15min, but can also be longer. Think 30-45min on a lunch break or chilling at bedtime. + Gyroscope, accelerometer, GPS, NFC, Camera - all of these can be inputs. Even touch can be gesture or multitouch. I played a phone RPG using a Wiimote connected via Bluetooth. + Optimization, testing, and analytics are very important! But you can use that same approach for any platform - mobile is a good analogue for Switch or handheld systems. + You do need a real marketing strategy, and some kind of mktg budget. But you don't need millions of users either, so just focus on the places your likely players are. A good approach is to do a game suited for your local market, or a culture that you're very familiar with. The big companies have to be generic - if you are specific, you can make plenty of money for a normal indie. + Be prepared to keep your games up-to-date, since the Stores require that (at least once per-year). Lots of old games are delisting due to this, so you can stay competitive just by doing routine maintenance.
@@stephan553 The one I did for Jamaica Game Dev Society is public - from 2022, but most of it still holds. I did a more recent one for the IGDA Foundation, not sure if that's on public RUclips tho.
Mobile game dev gives me a job as game economy designer since 2017. 99/100 job proposals come from mobile. I certainly love the mobile game industry, which also knows better than any game designer how to engage and retain even with simple mechanics. Mobile F2P is easy to test and monetize and are games that engage 95% of non-payers that enjoy all those experiences for free. Edit: all audiences play mobile, and 15-30 aged play and pay a lot Edit 2: Designing games that can even run in a Nokia 1100, 150MB of size AT MOST, with servers, with tracking, with tests forms you as a game producer 94838282 times faster than making the level design in a fancy pc rpg dungeon
That last point 😅 Also, most of the world's gamers play mobile, even the ones that also play PC & Console (Newzoo had a great chart showing the overlaps). To say "I'll never make mobile" is to shut off your game from the majority of players who might enjoy it, even apart from the money side.
Yeah, if you enjoy designing disgusting, predatory games, mobile F2P is perfect for your ilk. For your sort of person, mobile dev is a snug fit, just like working for a casino or a drug cartel. Good monetizing in all of these, that's the only thing that matters, after all!
@@fy8798 oh, for sure. Lets support your ideology: a steam community full of amateur copies of slenderman, platformers and outperforming 3D rpgs. Thats the true spirit of good gamedev (?) I found disgusting the ideology. I can understand that you have never been inside a game dev team, so you don’t realize that producing a pc game or producing a mobile game is the same in the daily basis, but one is profitable and ‘useful’ to learn good design practices while the other one is just full of “good intentions”. If 95% of mobile community plays for free and enjoys the experience I cannot understand why a starter pack with glowing stuff or a speedup experience can be found as predatory. Edit: in addition. If you want to work for a AAA game you need to live in California or Japan and have +5 years in AAA 🙂. In the rest of the cases, if you want to be professional in the gamedev and actually get a job: mobile is the only one who hires in the las 10 years all over the world
I worked in a mobile game company for several years, and yeah - it's just a very, very shitty place. You get actively punished for improving games - what the managers want is worse games unless you pay. The only thing that matters, really, is monetization - games are just vehicles for microtransactions. If that's what you want, cool. As a person with any care for games, though, one is better off staying away.
Valve and Gabe Newell have proposed a particular ideological framework on their idea of 'fairness' on Steam, which has resulted in a surprisingly stable market for many developers. By contrast, Google's business is ads, and so the extreme bizarro market of mobile dev is kind of the 'true capitalist' final form of all games storefronts. Lets hope that Valve hangs on to steam in the long run!
We have just released our mobile game - extraction shooter Hazard Days. Sometimes mobile market get me annoying (with a lot of SDK'S and other bullshit), but sometimes it's nice because players more casual and nearly all of our reviews get 4/5 stars :)
Tbh oversaturation was and issue on mobile even 10 years ago, so I wouldn't say it's a new problem. Other than that I agree on your points, monetization is hard and is a new skill to learn, user acquisition is hard and is another skill to learn, so is optimization. But like you said the quality of a mobile game doesn't have to be as high as a PC game, so imo that's a good thing for a new dev. What you didn't mention is the long tail, mobile has way better long tail than steam.
Well, it would be about building a brand. That users can trust will deliver to them good small fun games that ain't just lazy cashgrabs. Now, this won't make one an instant millionaire overnight, but it is a sustainable approach to the problem of being in the market. You just have to believe your good will is going to be rewarded in the long term.
The one thing i appreciated being in mobile industry for the last 8 years is honing my Live Service skills. we do so many cool shit for content delivery, patching (content and also client code patching), events scheduling without the need to make a build and fight google/apple. all of this in-house before Game Backends as a Service like playFab or Beamable took over. Sisters studios working in HD are asking us for support on their meta features. Note: the 20 playtesters is only for your first game release, subsequent apps will drop to 12 and so on.
I have a small survival RPG like game that is written in Java and runs on Android, Windows, and Browser. So to me you should just deploy to all 3 major platforms regardless. Even if the game is not a great fit for 2 of the 3 top platforms. This way you can at least offer something other than steam only stuff.
Hey there... I have a weird comment, I guess... See, I make indie games, and some games in a series I work on, is called BiteMe. Now, years later, I see you guys have a studio with the exact name and spelled the exact same way. (Edit: only in my case there is an "!" in the end, like "BiteMe!") Don't worry, I am not going to make a problem out of this. But there might be some confusion under both our audiences this way. So, here is a head's up. I wonder how you did come up with that name for a game studio, though? I'm just curious how you would think of BiteMe, what does it mean? :p In my case it was because it is a zombie game, and it sounds like giving someone the finger. (Edit: I realize this sounds as if I am saying: "Did you get the idea from me"? But I actually am just interested in how the name came to be, compare your train of thought with my own.)
Our name originates from a dating app I made about 8 years ago called BiteMe! The app was focused on lunch dates to meet new people. When it was time to pick a studio name, we just went for BiteMe Games since it was easy to just reuse our name. -T
@@bitemegames A dating app called bite me? :p That raises more questions. :p Well, good luck with your channel and your product. I'll probably see you again in my search results. ;)
Yeah I'm moving off mobile at the moment. It is hella tough to get visibility in the store against the bigger studios. That, and you really have to be going whaling to make those big mobile $ - something which doesn't necessarily align as much with our ideals
A good video. Mobile is defs competitive… a finely tuned science. End of the day imo the simple physics still remains - make a good game. Even all the best reporting and optimization tools won’t change that fact.
One thing I learned working on mobile games is that pay-to-win is perfectly fine and incredibly lucrative even, regardless of your opinion on it as a gamer.
Seperate dev account on Steam that is the actual authority, all BiteMe member personal accounts are then added so they can do everything except change payment information basically. -M
The moment I gave up on mobile dev was when I ended up in a chat with mobile developers where they openly discussed things like buying installs and reviews to get into the top rankings. When I asked them why they are so comfortable discussing these things they said you only make money if you're in top 10 in your category, and you won't get there without cheesing installs and reviews. And some of them did have their games in the top charts. That was a long time ago though, so maybe things have changed since then.
While these points are all valid, mobile games are very big in the third world and rake in millions of dollars. Games that push the medium are very far and few tho. I think there is absolutely a potential to make a killer title on mobile, maybe one of you will be the next dev to do it.
Good that this video wasnt released 1 year earlier. I released a game about 6 months ago and it was a big success on android with over 400k downloads. While apple got nearly zero downloads and your points are mostly true, i am quite happy i was naive enough to try and make a game for mobile. I dont know how it worked out and the game made organic downloads, but looks like a was one of the few exceptions to the rule! Great video btw!
I released 2 games on mobile, dev time almost a year for each on and off but put a lot of effort into them. You are right, it's not worth it. I realised that I need at least 50k $ to break through the clutter. I did some calculations and for me 1 user generated 30% of the cost it took to get them to install and play. So they are just wasting away now on the app stores. Great experience though, in general, I don't regret it.
Marnix, was my question for my mobile game during the livestream the last straw that lead to this video? 😂 (I know you've mentioned mobile games and stuff before, jk)
honestly, mobile games really need to go back to the classic handheld gaming design. Like, modern phones have been the best platform for things like Nintendo GameBoy/DS, Sega GameGear, Atari Lynx, and PlayStation Portable/Vita type games. We hardly have any portable games anymore, unless you're getting the Switch/2 or SteamDeck now. And even then, they're ridiculously powerful, so you can play some pretty big games on them. But, phones have always been sitting in the beautiful spot for portable gaming, and would be able to basically clear up the older options, for a more unified setup. Since you'd only need to make them for 2 base systems then (iPhone and Android), and that you know people will always be buying new phones periodically. But, not everyone would be willing to spend a couple hundred for the handheld gaming systems, *in addition to* buying a phone. I think, realistically, homebrew games would probably do the best off of this system for mobile gaming. But, overall, the massive flooding of the market of mobile games, where a "long" dev cycle is 1 week (seriously? that's fuckin short...), has just destroyed a viable market by wiping out the really great games that could be released on it. I do agree, that mobile games, probably shouldn't be done by most people. Though, I think the exception would be more like, if you happen to come up with an idea for it, and the only platform that could reasonably make sense for being able to play it is mobile, then, that's when you should make the game. That is, if a traditional controller doesn't give you the same level of control that you're looking for, but a touch screen does, *then* make a mobile game. Otherwise, just stick with PC, console, or VR gaming (and with VR, probably should wait till you've got a few PC games done at least).
The glaring problem with mobile games is discovery and customer acquisition. If you're not near the top of the grossing charts, then nobody sees your game.
The part about the group who created an AI to extract the maximum amount of value from customers just makes me shake my head. I don't own a business or anything, so maybe I'm a bit naive - but I wish companies started from the viewpoint of "how much value can we provide" instead of "how much value can we extract?"
I dabbled in mobile many years ago, but surely wouldn't touch it now. Too many weird platform/build requirements, too many devices to test properly on, and of course micro-transactions/ads are a pain. However, as you said, cool small-scope games are still best suited to mobile. There's a big player-base there -- if you can find it.
I do mobile games but boy the market is trash. I do them because I do gamedev on the side when I have time and I don't have (take) time to polish too much. That way I level up in game dev / game design / etc. for my future paid games
I think micro transactions destroy game design and are annoying. I also think that console and pc gamers used to buy games should support and ask for premium games more.
Do you think it's even possible to develop mobile games without an absurd amount of micro-transactions nowadays? I feel like mobile games have a stronger motivation/pressure to be free-to-play, leaving very little wiggle room for devs who want to make great games.
You can develop them, but it's an uphill battle, Usagi Shima is one of my favorite examples for that, "fair" unintrustive ads, and a good idler experience, but this means that revenue is not going to be great, so the dev is looking at a Steam desktop release as well where he'll probably outearn mobile pretty quickly after release. -M
One exception case is a popular PC game doing a mobile port. Only open to the popular games, but Balatro and Stardew Valley functioned great as ad-free mobile games. But without the high level of visibility already established its next to impossible to make a profitable one-cost mobile game with no ads or mtx. Making a great mobile games is really easy compared to getting your mobile game really noticed.
Yes, premium mobile is still viable, esp if you are a small shop with low overhead costs, and have a genuinely good game. But finding a niche and marketing to your audience is key. Indies shouldn't be in hypercasual / casual, casino, puzzle, etc because those are where the massive companies use millions to make billions. It's like trying to make "indie CoD" 😅
@@ZedNerdStudiosI think 12 testers, only for new accounts, and it can include family & friends. Seems like the easiest approach is to form a circle with other devs to test each other's games.
I’m a new mobile game dev so take this with a grain of salt but I’m going to continue to make mobile games for one main reason. I have released one game so far and while it only ever got a handful of users (due to a $0 advertising budget) it has instead helped me find contract work making mobile games for others. Only a handful of interesting parties and meetings so far but having a decent website and proof that you can get past the google play barrier can put you ahead of others trying to sell their dev skills - and compared to the 0 interviews I’ve had trying to get dev jobs at a studio this is pretty good.
I’m still working on my own mobile games and a steam game soon but making games for others is one of the reasons I think that indie devs can still get away with focusing on mobile.
Does it put food on the table though is the question? And scalability is a huge factor. Can you scale your current process up to a business? Does the skills your learning translate into real world jobs? A lot of the time it's no for game dev in general (earning enough to live on)
There's a huge and I mean huge player base on mobile, everyone and their grandma has phones to play phone games but not everyone has consoles and a gaming PC!
So if your making it work that's awesome! Keep in mind where you want to be not where your at!
I hope the success keeps growing for you!
@@AstriaTVTruthExposed I'd say the skills & benefits translate. My first commercial game impressed the hiring cmte on my current FT job - I walked into the interview with one guy already singing my praises. My future-boss said I was the only applicant who came in with a finished, published piece of software.
And that's in "boring" enterprise dev, nothing to do with games.
That's awesome what you've done, but in a way, you aren't really who this video is aimed at - which actually helps you! From how you described it, you've actually become that group that ports the games to mobile; while you are making a game for Steam, as you said, you are specializing in the mobile space. You've jumped into the niche of mobile ports, which means for all of us who take the advice in this video, we are now YOUR potential customers! (In other words, in the nicest possible way I can: stop trying to disagree and market your own services! I say that slightly in jest and certainly not to offend, but still with some seriousness.)
I think the optimal strategy is to target PC first and if your game is a success you make a paid mobile port. This is what many popular steam games did like Stardew Valley, Slay the Spire and Balatro. That way no need to worry about ads, etc...
So maybe design your game PC first but with mobile controls in mind so that porting is easy when you reach that point.
good idea :)
If you know how mobile works, you would focus on mobile first, do you know on Mobile you can literally have a Game that generates revenue without having to advertise or do anything?.....mobile has the strange attribute that anyone can literally have downloads without a doing anything.... If you doubt me... Read about App store Algorithm and ASO
Everything you've said about mobile is so true, keep up these awesome videos! I've worked at mobile games studios for about 13 years now, it's very soul sucking watching the decisions made by the non-creative business types. While effective in pulling in revenue when done right, the end results of the games are not exactly games I am excited about, in the end they really feel like experiences, and at the end of the day, to maximize money from users . I'm lucky my current studio doesn't mind employees working on game related side projects, so any indie work I can do is very refreshing.
Me who is working on a mobile game right now: 😶😵💫
you are not alone
I'm working on a mobile game on unreal engine, and I'm struggling to get touch screen inputs to work
Not with the joysticks, but just touching, like Angry Birds.
Any advice?
@tariqkerr5590
Am sure there are plugins on the marketplace that could help with that
same
@@tariqkerr5590 stop making mobile games on unreal, it's overengineering. choose unity or godot.
This is a great and probably underrated video. Good job. Love your channel. Greetings from a fellow Belgium RUclipsr.
I can confirm it. I uploaded a game to the Play Store. It could not be found even when typing the exact of the name. Awful.
you need to work on ASO
Whats its name?
How about you reach out to RUclipsrs to play your games?
I have worked on hypercasual games in the past with a well established company here in Pakistan. From what I know, everything you are saying is absolutely true. However for anyone who still wants to make mobile games, I think one of the few feasible options for indie developers is to work with mobile publishers. They have both the money and experience to help you make a game that can perform well in the market (they WILL take most of the money) but be prepared to work on extremely lame stuff if you want financial success. Working on those games does help to be able to look at your games as products though. Many indie game developers could use that perspective imo.
As someone who have made mobile games, I will gladly tell you, mobile is not what you think it is, it's better to have a Game on mobile then when it has grown, take it to PC than doing the other way round, mobile has this strange good attribute that enables you to have downloads and earn revenue without even having to market or showcase your game on social media... I've tested it and it worked, made a game without showing anyone, released it on the App store and Play store and after few weeks.... Started getting organic downloads up to 100k+......yes Mobile has a huge competition compared to PC but if you understand the concept, you'll scale through
Especially with iOS that has a pretty consistent hardware. If I'm not mistaken, it's better to invest your development time in Apple. Would you mind sharing your experience with them so far?
Very encouraging! As someone trying to make some mobile games, Thanks for your wisdom, friend.
The one thing I think mobile games are also good for is teaching game design because they are usually easier to breakdown and look over what the designers did that worked and what didn't work.
The game design of mobile f2p games is completely different from the design of steam games..
Thanks for at least tackling the subject! You're describing is mostly the AAA or AA tier. Indie mobile has a different approach. I give a whole 1hr talk on this, but some quick-tips:
+ Mobile players are everyone! Once you accept that, you can find your niche for whatever game you prefer to make.
+ Midcore mobile games support short play sessions, like 5-15min, but can also be longer. Think 30-45min on a lunch break or chilling at bedtime.
+ Gyroscope, accelerometer, GPS, NFC, Camera - all of these can be inputs. Even touch can be gesture or multitouch. I played a phone RPG using a Wiimote connected via Bluetooth.
+ Optimization, testing, and analytics are very important! But you can use that same approach for any platform - mobile is a good analogue for Switch or handheld systems.
+ You do need a real marketing strategy, and some kind of mktg budget. But you don't need millions of users either, so just focus on the places your likely players are. A good approach is to do a game suited for your local market, or a culture that you're very familiar with. The big companies have to be generic - if you are specific, you can make plenty of money for a normal indie.
+ Be prepared to keep your games up-to-date, since the Stores require that (at least once per-year). Lots of old games are delisting due to this, so you can stay competitive just by doing routine maintenance.
I agree Thanks
Nice!
Got a link to your talk?
@@stephan553 The one I did for Jamaica Game Dev Society is public - from 2022, but most of it still holds. I did a more recent one for the IGDA Foundation, not sure if that's on public RUclips tho.
That's awesome you did talks!! Solid tips that I will add to my game dev knowledge thank you!
Mobile game dev gives me a job as game economy designer since 2017. 99/100 job proposals come from mobile. I certainly love the mobile game industry, which also knows better than any game designer how to engage and retain even with simple mechanics. Mobile F2P is easy to test and monetize and are games that engage 95% of non-payers that enjoy all those experiences for free.
Edit: all audiences play mobile, and 15-30 aged play and pay a lot
Edit 2: Designing games that can even run in a Nokia 1100, 150MB of size AT MOST, with servers, with tracking, with tests forms you as a game producer 94838282 times faster than making the level design in a fancy pc rpg dungeon
That last point 😅 Also, most of the world's gamers play mobile, even the ones that also play PC & Console (Newzoo had a great chart showing the overlaps). To say "I'll never make mobile" is to shut off your game from the majority of players who might enjoy it, even apart from the money side.
Yeah, if you enjoy designing disgusting, predatory games, mobile F2P is perfect for your ilk. For your sort of person, mobile dev is a snug fit, just like working for a casino or a drug cartel. Good monetizing in all of these, that's the only thing that matters, after all!
@@fy8798 oh, for sure. Lets support your ideology: a steam community full of amateur copies of slenderman, platformers and outperforming 3D rpgs. Thats the true spirit of good gamedev (?)
I found disgusting the ideology. I can understand that you have never been inside a game dev team, so you don’t realize that producing a pc game or producing a mobile game is the same in the daily basis, but one is profitable and ‘useful’ to learn good design practices while the other one is just full of “good intentions”.
If 95% of mobile community plays for free and enjoys the experience I cannot understand why a starter pack with glowing stuff or a speedup experience can be found as predatory.
Edit: in addition. If you want to work for a AAA game you need to live in California or Japan and have +5 years in AAA 🙂. In the rest of the cases, if you want to be professional in the gamedev and actually get a job: mobile is the only one who hires in the las 10 years all over the world
I literally just made a Raid Shadow Legends joke like 10 minutes ago. I feel like the planets have aligned.
I worked in a mobile game company for several years, and yeah - it's just a very, very shitty place. You get actively punished for improving games - what the managers want is worse games unless you pay. The only thing that matters, really, is monetization - games are just vehicles for microtransactions. If that's what you want, cool. As a person with any care for games, though, one is better off staying away.
Valve and Gabe Newell have proposed a particular ideological framework on their idea of 'fairness' on Steam, which has resulted in a surprisingly stable market for many developers. By contrast, Google's business is ads, and so the extreme bizarro market of mobile dev is kind of the 'true capitalist' final form of all games storefronts. Lets hope that Valve hangs on to steam in the long run!
We have just released our mobile game - extraction shooter Hazard Days.
Sometimes mobile market get me annoying (with a lot of SDK'S and other bullshit), but sometimes it's nice because players more casual and nearly all of our reviews get 4/5 stars :)
Tbh oversaturation was and issue on mobile even 10 years ago, so I wouldn't say it's a new problem.
Other than that I agree on your points, monetization is hard and is a new skill to learn, user acquisition is hard and is another skill to learn, so is optimization.
But like you said the quality of a mobile game doesn't have to be as high as a PC game, so imo that's a good thing for a new dev.
What you didn't mention is the long tail, mobile has way better long tail than steam.
A great summary, which on the one hand is somewhat discouraging, but on the other hand also clearly shows the reality and possible ways forward,
Well, it would be about building a brand. That users can trust will deliver to them good small fun games that ain't just lazy cashgrabs.
Now, this won't make one an instant millionaire overnight, but it is a sustainable approach to the problem of being in the market. You just have to believe your good will is going to be rewarded in the long term.
The one thing i appreciated being in mobile industry for the last 8 years is honing my Live Service skills. we do so many cool shit for content delivery, patching (content and also client code patching), events scheduling without the need to make a build and fight google/apple. all of this in-house before Game Backends as a Service like playFab or Beamable took over.
Sisters studios working in HD are asking us for support on their meta features.
Note: the 20 playtesters is only for your first game release, subsequent apps will drop to 12 and so on.
I have a small survival RPG like game that is written in Java and runs on Android, Windows, and Browser. So to me you should just deploy to all 3 major platforms regardless. Even if the game is not a great fit for 2 of the 3 top platforms. This way you can at least offer something other than steam only stuff.
Hey there... I have a weird comment, I guess... See, I make indie games, and some games in a series I work on, is called BiteMe. Now, years later, I see you guys have a studio with the exact name and spelled the exact same way. (Edit: only in my case there is an "!" in the end, like "BiteMe!")
Don't worry, I am not going to make a problem out of this. But there might be some confusion under both our audiences this way. So, here is a head's up.
I wonder how you did come up with that name for a game studio, though? I'm just curious how you would think of BiteMe, what does it mean? :p In my case it was because it is a zombie game, and it sounds like giving someone the finger. (Edit: I realize this sounds as if I am saying: "Did you get the idea from me"? But I actually am just interested in how the name came to be, compare your train of thought with my own.)
Our name originates from a dating app I made about 8 years ago called BiteMe! The app was focused on lunch dates to meet new people.
When it was time to pick a studio name, we just went for BiteMe Games since it was easy to just reuse our name.
-T
@@bitemegames A dating app called bite me? :p That raises more questions. :p
Well, good luck with your channel and your product. I'll probably see you again in my search results. ;)
Yeah I'm moving off mobile at the moment. It is hella tough to get visibility in the store against the bigger studios. That, and you really have to be going whaling to make those big mobile $ - something which doesn't necessarily align as much with our ideals
A good video. Mobile is defs competitive… a finely tuned science. End of the day imo the simple physics still remains - make a good game. Even all the best reporting and optimization tools won’t change that fact.
Thank you for sharing this does help me find out where to go from here.
One thing I learned working on mobile games is that pay-to-win is perfectly fine and incredibly lucrative even, regardless of your opinion on it as a gamer.
🥲me who has dictated my whole game dev journey to mobile 💔
So a bit of an unrelated question but do you have a separate dev account or do you use your main steam account for game dev?
Seperate dev account on Steam that is the actual authority, all BiteMe member personal accounts are then added so they can do everything except change payment information basically. -M
@ thank you
The moment I gave up on mobile dev was when I ended up in a chat with mobile developers where they openly discussed things like buying installs and reviews to get into the top rankings. When I asked them why they are so comfortable discussing these things they said you only make money if you're in top 10 in your category, and you won't get there without cheesing installs and reviews. And some of them did have their games in the top charts. That was a long time ago though, so maybe things have changed since then.
While these points are all valid, mobile games are very big in the third world and rake in millions of dollars. Games that push the medium are very far and few tho. I think there is absolutely a potential to make a killer title on mobile, maybe one of you will be the next dev to do it.
Good that this video wasnt released 1 year earlier. I released a game about 6 months ago and it was a big success on android with over 400k downloads. While apple got nearly zero downloads and your points are mostly true, i am quite happy i was naive enough to try and make a game for mobile. I dont know how it worked out and the game made organic downloads, but looks like a was one of the few exceptions to the rule! Great video btw!
I released 2 games on mobile, dev time almost a year for each on and off but put a lot of effort into them. You are right, it's not worth it. I realised that I need at least 50k $ to break through the clutter. I did some calculations and for me 1 user generated 30% of the cost it took to get them to install and play. So they are just wasting away now on the app stores. Great experience though, in general, I don't regret it.
Marnix, was my question for my mobile game during the livestream the last straw that lead to this video? 😂 (I know you've mentioned mobile games and stuff before, jk)
honestly, mobile games really need to go back to the classic handheld gaming design. Like, modern phones have been the best platform for things like Nintendo GameBoy/DS, Sega GameGear, Atari Lynx, and PlayStation Portable/Vita type games. We hardly have any portable games anymore, unless you're getting the Switch/2 or SteamDeck now. And even then, they're ridiculously powerful, so you can play some pretty big games on them.
But, phones have always been sitting in the beautiful spot for portable gaming, and would be able to basically clear up the older options, for a more unified setup. Since you'd only need to make them for 2 base systems then (iPhone and Android), and that you know people will always be buying new phones periodically. But, not everyone would be willing to spend a couple hundred for the handheld gaming systems, *in addition to* buying a phone.
I think, realistically, homebrew games would probably do the best off of this system for mobile gaming.
But, overall, the massive flooding of the market of mobile games, where a "long" dev cycle is 1 week (seriously? that's fuckin short...), has just destroyed a viable market by wiping out the really great games that could be released on it. I do agree, that mobile games, probably shouldn't be done by most people. Though, I think the exception would be more like, if you happen to come up with an idea for it, and the only platform that could reasonably make sense for being able to play it is mobile, then, that's when you should make the game. That is, if a traditional controller doesn't give you the same level of control that you're looking for, but a touch screen does, *then* make a mobile game. Otherwise, just stick with PC, console, or VR gaming (and with VR, probably should wait till you've got a few PC games done at least).
Mobile games are a replacement for flash games but with predatory monetization
Just one request could you do a follow up for xbox, playstation and switch?
The glaring problem with mobile games is discovery and customer acquisition. If you're not near the top of the grossing charts, then nobody sees your game.
I'll die on the hill of no mobile games.
DON'T look at the centered game at 1:57
Are you the dev of that game? Because if so genius marketing
Are graphics programmers game programmers?
You could try to gamify CAD, who knows maybe you make the next AutoCAD
The part about the group who created an AI to extract the maximum amount of value from customers just makes me shake my head. I don't own a business or anything, so maybe I'm a bit naive - but I wish companies started from the viewpoint of "how much value can we provide" instead of "how much value can we extract?"
It’s brutal guys, it was brutal 10 years ago even. It’s 10 times harder than Steam.
Watching some BiteMe while having a bite 😎
nobody likes it, but it is where most users are.
I dabbled in mobile many years ago, but surely wouldn't touch it now. Too many weird platform/build requirements, too many devices to test properly on, and of course micro-transactions/ads are a pain. However, as you said, cool small-scope games are still best suited to mobile. There's a big player-base there -- if you can find it.
I do mobile games but boy the market is trash. I do them because I do gamedev on the side when I have time and I don't have (take) time to polish too much. That way I level up in game dev / game design / etc. for my future paid games
1:44 RobTop is the only one i can remember and yet he made a pc port
I'd love to play test Japanese Fountain Girls ngl. Like the real ones 🥵
I think micro transactions destroy game design and are annoying. I also think that console and pc gamers used to buy games should support and ask for premium games more.
Do you think it's even possible to develop mobile games without an absurd amount of micro-transactions nowadays? I feel like mobile games have a stronger motivation/pressure to be free-to-play, leaving very little wiggle room for devs who want to make great games.
You can develop them, but it's an uphill battle, Usagi Shima is one of my favorite examples for that, "fair" unintrustive ads, and a good idler experience, but this means that revenue is not going to be great, so the dev is looking at a Steam desktop release as well where he'll probably outearn mobile pretty quickly after release. -M
One exception case is a popular PC game doing a mobile port. Only open to the popular games, but Balatro and Stardew Valley functioned great as ad-free mobile games. But without the high level of visibility already established its next to impossible to make a profitable one-cost mobile game with no ads or mtx. Making a great mobile games is really easy compared to getting your mobile game really noticed.
Yes, premium mobile is still viable, esp if you are a small shop with low overhead costs, and have a genuinely good game. But finding a niche and marketing to your audience is key. Indies shouldn't be in hypercasual / casual, casino, puzzle, etc because those are where the massive companies use millions to make billions. It's like trying to make "indie CoD" 😅
You only need 20 playtesters on a personal account btw.
Currently it has reduced to 14
@@ZedNerdStudiosI think 12 testers, only for new accounts, and it can include family & friends. Seems like the easiest approach is to form a circle with other devs to test each other's games.
“some girl” with the coupon? Best not to gender stereotype
I've done 7 mobile games alongside four years and all those games have generated me 5 usd total profit XD