Congratulations dawg. Your last couple videos have inspired me to buckle down and bust my ass to try and get an internship within the next few years. I’m a freshman right now so at least I have some time.
Start early, bro. From experience, it's hard to get that first internship, but once you get the first, the rest are EASY. Just apply to as many as you can
This is my man, Congrat. But also Definitely get big enough so you can quit the 9-5 grind. And it is brutal out there in the interview and actual job. Even you have a great boss, I will choose to be self-employed 100%.
@@AlienProGamer Can't compare countries like India to Canada, the cost of living is much cheaper in India than the west. You can get a lot more stuff in India for $50 than in US/Canada
@@salmanbehen4384 true bro, but compare the work, we have to do the same work or even overtime for a fraction of what they get abroad.. and your point is valid upto a limit. Imagine a SWE getting a measly 25,000INR per month (around 300 USD). 80% of that will go just towards the rent and bills..
Thanks a lot man. I got out of the military in 2016 and began my CompSci journey in 2017 at community college. Got my associates then transferred to Rutgers the State University I'm now just 9 credits shy from being able to apply to graduate for my bachelors. I've only just recently found your channel, but your videos have been super motivating for me.
I am starting my Junior semester of Software Engineering and I feel like I am incapable of anything and have a wheel house of random experience with Java, C++, and Ruby. This semester we're focusing on Principles of Programming Languages, Algorithms (kill me), and Assembly. The level of abstraction is through the roof and I honestly miss the days when we would just code. I really hope we start learning how to apply our skills and thinking so when it comes time for interviews and real world jobs, we can actually do something. Right now I feel like I'd be completely lost in the sauce.
he has some unique personality: funny, charming, almost childishly naughty, genuine, all of these makes him stand out from rest of the tech youtubers. also because of this, he also attracts non-tech viewers. simply because it's fun and refreshing to watch his content.
holy that salary is higher than a lot of full time jobs for new grads in canada btw it would be good to convert your salary into an annual rate. it's easier to compare that way
@@FryingPan hahah I hate you. Not really, I'm just envious. I have been a full-time dev for 2 years in december and I make $20/hr if I convert it to hourly. Time to make some moves!!
I am about to start university and I am going to study Informatics Engineering. I am really grateful with you because each time I watch your videos I feel more and more hype for my career. So thank you so much :)
I wish I‘d have started cs in 2018. Now I‘m almost done with environmental eng. and feel like it’s too late to start again with cs lmao Best of luck with informatics engineering 🍀
I'm slowly losing motivation on my CS program due to personal problems but watching Pan's videos made feel at ease and give back to me my bits of my loss motivation. Your videos not just give entertainment but also knowledge. Keep it up, Pan and much love from PH.
@The Algorithm i had INCs and one subject that the professor had stop teaching in our univ. so i cant comply for my inc. its my 4th year in college but due to those mention circumstances, im in my third year again.
@The Algorithm yes, its it is. you got INCs if you cant able to pass all requirements but had atleast 50% grade or it depends on condition of your professor when he give INCs.
@The Algorithm i'm from Philippines, bro. for me, all course had different level of of hard it is. you just have to enroll in a course that makes you enjoy studying it. i find comp. sci hard to study since i lacked some resources but i still enjoy studying it and every time i look for resources for my studies, i learn new things. how ironic is that i feel stress and depress because of my degree program but i find myself enjoying studying it.
@The Algorithm IT field is broad and some aspect of it doesnt require you to be a math genius, just know the basic of math. i think web developer doesnt need much math. choose what makes you enjoy studying, you can self study your desire IT field career. lots of successful people in IT field are self taught.
I got a cisco internship back in 2017. I also didn't need to code, and just answered a few questions. I also just felt like I got lucky! I suppose they don't really care about live coding.
Hey Pan, I really like your videos! I want to mention also that it's always a good idea to negotiate for a higher salary. This goes for any career with any company. The worst they're going to do is say no to the salary offer.
You know your videos are such a help !! I mean I am a computer student and I don't have anyone to advise me and I want to go further with CS. Thank you so much
Must be nice to live in US/Canada cause it's hella hard just to get interview even tho your resumes are stacked if you're from outside of US/Canada. Applying to companies there will most likely get rejected on resume stage just because most of them can't sponsor visa rn
@@Tea-Spin Yes but you can still apply for a job/internship in your country 🤔 And even for remote work I got interviews even for remote work and I'm french I don't think it has anything to do with where you live
Congrats. Also great school choice (McGill) good combination of cost to prestige. How're you liking living in Montreal vs the states ? What do you prefer ?
A great way to improve your chances of getting an interview at the places you want to work is to network. Reach out to people in the roles you want or people who have interned there before and ask them about their experience. Who knows, they may be able to connect you with a recruiter or hiring manager and make a referral. As the adage goes, "Ask for a job and get advice. Ask for advice and get a job."
I love your videos they're so inspiring, especially for first-year students. I was just wondering, how did you learn Java and all the other programming languages? my profs for OOP sucks and I feel so hopeless.
thank u. and yes it's often that the profs suck. make use of the vast information available on the internet. there is for sure some tutorial on OOP that will suit u the best somewhere out there. I'd suggest youtubing OOP concepts and checking out multiple videos from there.
@@FryingPan I see. Thanks for the tips. I tried watching different tutorials on yt but I kind of ended up getting even more confused. I think it's better if I just stick to learning java with one person rather than watching a million tutorials all at once cause that seemed to backfire. Btw, which university do you go to, if you don't mind me asking?
Dude this is crazy ! Well done :D, in the Netherlands I got 500 euros per month for my internship lol, some of my mates had 350 but I guess the system is vastly different, for us it is a mandatory part of the course programme to get underpaid before we get an actual job :D
Yoooo , I just found your channel in my recommendations, so glad you got not one but two offers my dude, I arrived in Toronto last month to study a program in ML hopefully all goes well. I will try to hangout in your twich channel, congrats man!!!
In an investment bank as a marketing graduate earning about 1/3 of what this mad lad is getting entry level offers for, and I couldn’t be happier for him 💪🏻 happy for you my Chinese brother!
@@FryingPan but I get paid like $8/hr as a full time SWE lmao jk I know there's the difference in cost of living and all that, but still India is known for cheap labor also you're really cute 😉
As a recent May 2021 college graduate from Arizona State University, I accepted my first job offer at Nationwide Insurance for a Software Engineer position.
Ayooooo come to Austin! There's actually like no anti-asian hate crimes here.....it's a super diverse city and I grew up my whole life as an Asian-American in Austin and experienced zero anti-asian sentiments. Okay, well you'll prolly run into people in public that won't punch you for being asian, but you can kinda get this vibe they prefer to hang out with white people but that's like really rare haha. Also allergies here are total ass and yes it gets pretty damn hot in the summer LMAO but you'll get used to it. Just make sure to park your car under a tree or else you're screwed
Congrats, your content is eally good and funny. Btw how did you study for the Cisco interview, since I also have an interview for a full SE position? Thanks in advance and best of luck
Just did leetcodes and prepared how to answer behaviourals. But it might be different for u, ask ur recruiter to make sure. Congrats on the interview and good luck!!
Wow Facebook , I am also studying for getting an internship in facebook and will try to apply after my 3rd sem. If you will get internship there.Hope I will get some tips from you 😁
you have to realize the difference in living cost, in India you can probably live very decently with like 300 USD / month, but try living in san Francisco, not even 100k a year will get you decent life there. New York is even more horrible, to live decently in better parts of New York you will need over 200k a year.
@@teemumiettinen7250 your point is valid about the cost of living, but generally speaking Indians have to shoulder their family responsibilities which are exponentially more than in other countries. And when you pay a fortune on college and get 300 USD a month it is just too unfair. I mean I work for a company and I get nearly 500$ a month, basically what indian tech companies do is provide outsourcing to clients in the US or UK. I'm not saying that I'm unhappy, it's just unfair. the growth is too slow. And btw you are expected to be flexible like a rubber band with the working hours and shifts and work location and everything else.
@@AlienProGamer it's unfair, I understand. But complaining also solves nothing. But also, your point being *only in* India that people have to support their family is just dumb and close minded. A lot of people around the world also have to support their families too, unrelated in regards of where they live. It's even harder for folks in HCoL area.
@@Tea-Spin it's not dumb. The family responsibilities anywhere in Asia are way to much compared to anywhere in the world.. here we are expected to pay for the whole family expenses once we start earning. We do not even have the freedom to explore our career options in India. Either be a doctor or an engineer. That's the only two career paths available to us. And no I'm not complaining. I am working on my life to solve my problems and eventually make life easier and better for my family. I enjoy watching this guy's videos and I just wanted to put that out there about the salary difference.
Hey man, what do you think about making a video talking about software engineering and the main concepts and if it needs alot of math or not? Great channel btw you’re a lord
I should've gone for computer science instead of computer engineering, I hate not really understanding programming at all, even after spending 4 years plus on it.
Congratulations dawg. Your last couple videos have inspired me to buckle down and bust my ass to try and get an internship within the next few years. I’m a freshman right now so at least I have some time.
let's goo!!
@@FryingPan Also your videos are funny and entertaining keep it up 😎
@@FryingPan bro teach me
Start early, bro. From experience, it's hard to get that first internship, but once you get the first, the rest are EASY. Just apply to as many as you can
@@FryingPan I got into an internship for Java QA Automation, pretty pog ngl
my man has a really good sense of humor.
Who's your man he is mine😂
Exactly. Unlike many, he doesn't force it. Makes his content very interesting to follow.
You homewreckers!
Once again, I understand nothing but I'm here nonetheless. Well done, Pan. 👏🏼
thanks for being here :D
This is my man, Congrat. But also Definitely get big enough so you can quit the 9-5 grind. And it is brutal out there in the interview and actual job. Even you have a great boss, I will choose to be self-employed 100%.
Salaries are insane. Good job brother
thanks :D
really: in italy 50€ is for all day work
@@calcio437 In India it's for 3-4 days work lol... That too full-time.
@@AlienProGamer Can't compare countries like India to Canada, the cost of living is much cheaper in India than the west. You can get a lot more stuff in India for $50 than in US/Canada
@@salmanbehen4384 true bro, but compare the work, we have to do the same work or even overtime for a fraction of what they get abroad.. and your point is valid upto a limit. Imagine a SWE getting a measly 25,000INR per month (around 300 USD).
80% of that will go just towards the rent and bills..
i switched my major to CS after getting my associates and i love your content. and am currently in my second semester. keep it up bro!!
Thanks a lot man. I got out of the military in 2016 and began my CompSci journey in 2017 at community college. Got my associates then transferred to Rutgers the State University I'm now just 9 credits shy from being able to apply to graduate for my bachelors. I've only just recently found your channel, but your videos have been super motivating for me.
Pan: gets job at Facebook
Also Pan: leaves Facebook to be an Ex-Facebook engineer
I want to get in facebook just so i can use that title
@@FryingPan idk if saying it is gonna help with the interview xd
@@FryingPan Techlead's spiritual successor
@@FryingPan Please dont be techlead 2.0
@@FryingPan lucky you didn't intern at FB given the outage that just happened today lmao everyone saying the intern deleted the DNS Routing lmao
congratulations pan!! good luck with your upcoming endeavors!!! 🍀 can't wait to see more from ya while i continue with cs classes!
thanks good luck to u too:)
I am starting my Junior semester of Software Engineering and I feel like I am incapable of anything and have a wheel house of random experience with Java, C++, and Ruby. This semester we're focusing on Principles of Programming Languages, Algorithms (kill me), and Assembly. The level of abstraction is through the roof and I honestly miss the days when we would just code. I really hope we start learning how to apply our skills and thinking so when it comes time for interviews and real world jobs, we can actually do something. Right now I feel like I'd be completely lost in the sauce.
What are you studying?
PUSH THROUGH!!
Dont totally rely on the university to teach you EVERYTHING learn some things yourself, research.
thought all coders have no life but I love this guy personality 😂
he has some unique personality: funny, charming, almost childishly naughty, genuine, all of these makes him stand out from rest of the tech youtubers. also because of this, he also attracts non-tech viewers. simply because it's fun and refreshing to watch his content.
@@jijiwaiwai6747 weirdo
@@lycan2494 ayo why so negative...can't take the truth?
@@jijiwaiwai6747 weirdo
Congratulations bro. Your vids are so chill to watch and fun. Thanks
Thats nearly twice as much as i do, been junior webdev for 1 year lol Props to you man, good job!
holy that salary is higher than a lot of full time jobs for new grads in canada
btw it would be good to convert your salary into an annual rate. it's easier to compare that way
u can get a rough annual rate by multiplying 20 on hourly rate
@@jijiwaiwai6747 so he is making 50*20=1000 annually? that's "really good"
@@ms9001 sorry, should multiply by 2000
50$/hr is about 104k$ a year! I didn't put yearly because internships are temporary and just 3-4 months. so by month it would be 50x160=8k$/month
@@FryingPan hahah I hate you. Not really, I'm just envious. I have been a full-time dev for 2 years in december and I make $20/hr if I convert it to hourly. Time to make some moves!!
I am about to start university and I am going to study Informatics Engineering. I am really grateful with you because each time I watch your videos I feel more and more hype for my career.
So thank you so much :)
it's what i'm here for
I wish I‘d have started cs in 2018. Now I‘m almost done with environmental eng. and feel like it’s too late to start again with cs lmao
Best of luck with informatics engineering 🍀
I'm slowly losing motivation on my CS program due to personal problems but watching Pan's videos made feel at ease and give back to me my bits of my loss motivation. Your videos not just give entertainment but also knowledge. Keep it up, Pan and much love from PH.
@The Algorithm i'm in my third year (again) and living in remote area which internet connection is not doing good.
@The Algorithm i had INCs and one subject that the professor had stop teaching in our univ. so i cant comply for my inc. its my 4th year in college but due to those mention circumstances, im in my third year again.
@The Algorithm yes, its it is. you got INCs if you cant able to pass all requirements but had atleast 50% grade or it depends on condition of your professor when he give INCs.
@The Algorithm i'm from Philippines, bro. for me, all course had different level of of hard it is. you just have to enroll in a course that makes you enjoy studying it. i find comp. sci hard to study since i lacked some resources but i still enjoy studying it and every time i look for resources for my studies, i learn new things. how ironic is that i feel stress and depress because of my degree program but i find myself enjoying studying it.
@The Algorithm IT field is broad and some aspect of it doesnt require you to be a math genius, just know the basic of math. i think web developer doesnt need much math. choose what makes you enjoy studying, you can self study your desire IT field career. lots of successful people in IT field are self taught.
Your editing style is top notch it keeps the video engaging. Great content!
I got a cisco internship back in 2017. I also didn't need to code, and just answered a few questions. I also just felt like I got lucky! I suppose they don't really care about live coding.
more info how/where you got it?
Hey Pan, I really like your videos! I want to mention also that it's always a good idea to negotiate for a higher salary. This goes for any career with any company. The worst they're going to do is say no to the salary offer.
You know your videos are such a help !! I mean I am a computer student and I don't have anyone to advise me and I want to go further with CS. Thank you so much
Thank you! Im graduated from another profession but I intend to learn how to code. Your videos have been so good for me!
Your content is always fire 🔥
You’re blowing up quickly
Must be nice to live in US/Canada cause it's hella hard just to get interview even tho your resumes are stacked if you're from outside of US/Canada. Applying to companies there will most likely get rejected on resume stage just because most of them can't sponsor visa rn
Canada is still second rate compared to the US tho, but yeah it's still better than almost anybody else.
it's a privilege to be SWE in NA tbh, many people here don't realize
Can't you apply in you country ? I dont really understand how being in Us or Canada helps you more 😅
@@justafrenchkidtryingtospea9462 the power of US Dollar dude.
@@Tea-Spin Yes but you can still apply for a job/internship in your country 🤔 And even for remote work I got interviews even for remote work and I'm french I don't think it has anything to do with where you live
Great video, nice to see a down-to-earth typa CS RUclipsr
Amazing bro keep inspiring us like you always do
Congrats. Also great school choice (McGill) good combination of cost to prestige. How're you liking living in Montreal vs the states ? What do you prefer ?
Congratulations, you're amazing! ❤️
Im glad i started watching tutorials and learning javascript. Would never had found this channel otherwise
A great way to improve your chances of getting an interview at the places you want to work is to network. Reach out to people in the roles you want or people who have interned there before and ask them about their experience. Who knows, they may be able to connect you with a recruiter or hiring manager and make a referral.
As the adage goes, "Ask for a job and get advice. Ask for advice and get a job."
Have some rest buddy 😍😇 Good luck for the future🔮
Holy shit bro, great companies there. Good luck
Congrats 🎉 your video is so funny to watch 😂 I just binge watching the whole things. keep it up!
I love your videos they're so inspiring, especially for first-year students. I was just wondering, how did you learn Java and all the other programming languages? my profs for OOP sucks and I feel so hopeless.
thank u. and yes it's often that the profs suck. make use of the vast information available on the internet. there is for sure some tutorial on OOP that will suit u the best somewhere out there. I'd suggest youtubing OOP concepts and checking out multiple videos from there.
@@FryingPan I see. Thanks for the tips. I tried watching different tutorials on yt but I kind of ended up getting even more confused. I think it's better if I just stick to learning java with one person rather than watching a million tutorials all at once cause that seemed to backfire. Btw, which university do you go to, if you don't mind me asking?
You have inspired me Pan, just wanted to thank you🧡
Be safe and keep the good work
Dude this is crazy ! Well done :D, in the Netherlands I got 500 euros per month for my internship lol, some of my mates had 350 but I guess the system is vastly different, for us it is a mandatory part of the course programme to get underpaid before we get an actual job :D
Yo here in Austin!!! Subscribed! First year CS student who overstudied before starting...and now no one can help me. So thanks!
Lets goooo!!!!
Aww congratulations Pan!! You're so cute😊
he is a cutie pie🤩
you inspire me as someone new to coding. i subscribed. also you got good sense of humor :)
That leet code twitch stream clip was so funny that I am now following your stream!!
why do i keep rewatching these old videos
Congrats man. Very happy for you!
Holy cow dude YOU ARE X1000 MORE HELPFUL THAN ANYONE ELSE THANK YOU KING
THANK YOU KING/QUEEN
I'm way too addicted to this channel 😂
Me: feeling confident to lc and land an internship
Also me: watching pan's videos for the next 2 hrs
Me: feeling confident to lc and land an internship
Also me: reading your comments for the next 10hrs
Omg!!!! Funniest guy ever!!! Youre awesome. Im on my way to become a software engineer. You are the best
I felt proud as a Moroccan for hearing one of my favorite songs
(Thé à la Menthe) between 0:59 and 1:21
Great choice. Good luck man
Underrated song!!
@@FryingPan admin he's doing it sideways
i cant stop watching his videos....
Yoooo , I just found your channel in my recommendations, so glad you got not one but two offers my dude, I arrived in Toronto last month to study a program in ML hopefully all goes well. I will try to hangout in your twich channel, congrats man!!!
good luck with your program man! toronto is great:)
damn these numbers are kinda nutty… very well deserved 😛
I'm happy that I have a job cuz maaan job searching uses up resources and energy
Best of luck kid!
In an investment bank as a marketing graduate earning about 1/3 of what this mad lad is getting entry level offers for, and I couldn’t be happier for him 💪🏻 happy for you my Chinese brother!
And here I'm, who is a business student but still subscribed your channel..🙂
By the way, congratulations to you 💐
sigma grindset 🔥
sup nang
Oof, fresher at Cisco here, my figures are nowhere near these 😂
Ya san jose is their highest paid area i think
@@FryingPan but I get paid like $8/hr as a full time SWE lmao
jk I know there's the difference in cost of living and all that, but still India is known for cheap labor
also you're really cute 😉
@@sandhyaganesh2452 I know, I'm very grateful my parents made me grow up in Canada, it's my biggest privilege
I find you really inspirational.
Congrats🎉 But my guy these offers bout to get rescinded-HR hates when you're still interviewing, lol.
Just wanted to say, I love you man !!
As a recent May 2021 college graduate from Arizona State University, I accepted my first job offer at Nationwide Insurance for a Software Engineer position.
You are insane.
I'm coming to Canada in 2023
Austin has great food and San Antonio is pretty close. Enjoy the best areas of Texas!
Hell yea good shit! Good luck 🍀
proud of you nice job
Ayooooo come to Austin! There's actually like no anti-asian hate crimes here.....it's a super diverse city and I grew up my whole life as an Asian-American in Austin and experienced zero anti-asian sentiments. Okay, well you'll prolly run into people in public that won't punch you for being asian, but you can kinda get this vibe they prefer to hang out with white people but that's like really rare haha. Also allergies here are total ass and yes it gets pretty damn hot in the summer LMAO but you'll get used to it. Just make sure to park your car under a tree or else you're screwed
Congratulations bro!!!!!! You gonna rock it 😎😎
Thank you for sharing!
I am 1st year and hope to have a CV and skillset as good as yours you are my inspiration thankyou!
Great young fella goodluck
Congratulations mate
Full time youtuber = technically a google employee
Congrats, your content is eally good and funny.
Btw how did you study for the Cisco interview, since I also have an interview for a full SE position?
Thanks in advance and best of luck
Just did leetcodes and prepared how to answer behaviourals. But it might be different for u, ask ur recruiter to make sure. Congrats on the interview and good luck!!
@@FryingPan Thanks, I appreciate the advice and feedback
Subscribed!
also I'm coming to Canada this year so I would love to meet you!
Yo,
Bro love ya. I enjoyed your content and it inspire me to do the same. I am current in 1st year of college
Sounds good! Congrats..❤️
This kid is hilarious. Subscribed!
Wow Facebook , I am also studying for getting an internship in facebook and will try to apply after my 3rd sem. If you will get internship there.Hope I will get some tips from you 😁
Happy for you!
You’re a legend bro. I’m a data science grad student with no cs background and all I can do is use pandas in Python but I should be good to go right?
Hello Pan! I wonder if you can make a video on how to advance from first internship to better internships. Thank you!
Yoo , i also got dev internship as a high schooler , congrats
high schooler wow CONGRATS
Aw man! I am also a high scholer,just getting started. Can you contact you anywhere?
@@FryingPan Thanks :)
@@meghnasinghania6521 Thanks man I sent my request
Man ! You have bright future in RUclips than intership and all😂 ,ByThe Way Good video bro😘
You should do a video and talk about some of the practice projects that you had done when you went out looking for an internship
I have a video on that 🤣
@@FryingPan Oh, okay ..thanks :)
Tbh, the part time offers you got are 10x what a SWE in India makes.
you have to realize the difference in living cost, in India you can probably live very decently with like 300 USD / month, but try living in san Francisco, not even 100k a year will get you decent life there.
New York is even more horrible, to live decently in better parts of New York you will need over 200k a year.
@@teemumiettinen7250 your point is valid about the cost of living, but generally speaking Indians have to shoulder their family responsibilities which are exponentially more than in other countries. And when you pay a fortune on college and get 300 USD a month it is just too unfair. I mean I work for a company and I get nearly 500$ a month, basically what indian tech companies do is provide outsourcing to clients in the US or UK. I'm not saying that I'm unhappy, it's just unfair. the growth is too slow. And btw you are expected to be flexible like a rubber band with the working hours and shifts and work location and everything else.
@@AlienProGamer it's unfair, I understand. But complaining also solves nothing. But also, your point being *only in* India that people have to support their family is just dumb and close minded. A lot of people around the world also have to support their families too, unrelated in regards of where they live. It's even harder for folks in HCoL area.
@@Tea-Spin it's not dumb. The family responsibilities anywhere in Asia are way to much compared to anywhere in the world.. here we are expected to pay for the whole family expenses once we start earning. We do not even have the freedom to explore our career options in India. Either be a doctor or an engineer. That's the only two career paths available to us. And no I'm not complaining. I am working on my life to solve my problems and eventually make life easier and better for my family. I enjoy watching this guy's videos and I just wanted to put that out there about the salary difference.
@@Tea-Spin and I'm sorry if my reply seemed a bit rude.. but I've been going through a lot lately..
What kind of keyboard do you mainly use? and Congrats!
absolute chad
u r next waterloo chad
Yo Frying Pan how did you learn your programming skills? School is not helping much. Only learning c++ and python. Any advice would help.
Hey man, what do you think about making a video talking about software engineering and the main concepts and if it needs alot of math or not? Great channel btw you’re a lord
OK i will in the future
Congrats, my boi!
Thank you for the information
Love the sweatshirt!
dude you are so funny! cheers from montreal!
Good Luck Pan!!!
I should've gone for computer science instead of computer engineering, I hate not really understanding programming at all, even after spending 4 years plus on it.
Pls if u can make a vid on how to crack interviews... I recently got rejected in one.
Yoo! Came from the post 😊
I didn't know ricegum was tech youtuber.
Congratsss!!💓💓
Good luck!
Damn I love you almond eyes
Congrats 🎉 champ
No brainer, get the coinbase offer. Working with some real engrs in the bay will benefit you in a long term.
took both!