I believe that these set of ideas gave a pretty nihilistic view on heroism. The undertone of "any attempt at heroism is ultimately self delusion or doomed for failure" isn't the full story. Morality is complicated. Heroism isn't always you vs the world -- it isn't always a competition. I believe our desire for heroism is easy to get confused with our biologic tendencies towards competition and dominance in simplistic hierarchies. They sort of shade into each other. Yet for me at least, when I watch movies with superheroes or heroic events, at no point am I comparing one person to the other. There's a certain character associated with heroes that I wish to emulate. I think the marvel movies give a good depiction of this point -- there are hundreds of heroes throughout the movie, it seems. The avengers in particular showcases plenty of heroes. Of course some comparisons are made amongst people who ask things like "who is your favorite one?", but ultimately they are all admirable and all speak to something inside us that we wish to express and live by. In short, I don't believe the thing inside of you that is desperate to express itself requires you being the absolute best at something in comparison to other people. I also don't believe it requires an illusion that convinces you that something that doesn't mean a damned thing is actually super important. We don't understand what drives us. We don't know why the thoughts that pop into our head actually pop into our head. We don't understand why certain music evokes deep feelings of meaning and inspire us. Sure, we understand some of it. We aren't a stupid species. But we also understood plenty about the earth before we found out it was round and was orbiting the sun. Philosophers are beautiful thinkers that shed a lot of light on a very complicated process. But don't let their stunning intelligence scare you away from your hopeful internal voice. We would not be capable of this emotion -- of empathizing with heroes, if it was all for not. It doesn't make sense that all of what drives us, drives us towards an illusion. It doesn't make sense that everything that makes us into our best selves, requires us to trivialize everyone else's existence by comparison. There's a way out of this foggy mess that brings us together, fills us with meaning, and isn't absolutely impossible. Maybe it will be hard, and messy, and possibly even out of the reach of our lifetime... but that's what makes it heroic.
Basically, this is the comment that resonated with me here. Are you by any chance aware of Carl Jung’s work? ‘Cause what you said reminded me precisely of his thoughts on the “Individuation process” and how the road to individuation differs from one another and that each of us is destined for particular life tasks that life, fate, or god have proposed on us. And we either be guided by them or just suffer meaninglessly. As in the Roman philosopher, Seneca's quote: “Fates lead the willing, but drag the unwilling.”
@@skyerscape8454 yet, isn’t’ “hope” an illusion? If so, why not just accept it is, and welcome what is what it is, rather than trying to avoid what is actually hopeless?
@@HealthyPlanet to my mind, hope is an indication that we are identified with some kind of illusion and investment into life. Although if, as you suggested, we can recognise that it’s an illusion anyway then fine, we will be less attached to the outcome.
Doing difficult mental and physical tasks does it. It's the act of overcoming that makes one feel fully alive. A good one I heard the other day: "What other people think of you is none of your business." Be your own hero.
A little novelette called At Last The Hero (available on Amazon) tells the story of a man damaged by not having had hero recognition in the war (WWII). When, eventually, he does become a hero, he comes to realize that heroism is not all glory and can come at a great price.
Have to admit, I think there was a lot missing from the intricacies that could be derived from The Denial of Death, and I suggest everyone read the book. Not accusing the OP of any failure, but Becker has a lot to say in such a short book that is worth reading. This whole video could have been made from the introduction and chapter 3/4 of the book.
@@piplupsuper0 yeah obviously you don't read. My mistake. I didn't take into account you might eventually come across this comment. I'll delete my comment.
Yeah i read the book and I’ve always watched these videos but when i saw the “introduction to Ernest Becker” playlist i thought to myself this is lacking many many videos
“Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather must recognize that it is he who is asked. In a word, each man is questioned by life; and he can only answer to life by answering for his own life; to life he can only respond by being responsible.” - Viktor Frankl
If something is meaningful or not is always relative. A matter of perspective. Discussing meaning is futile. Discussing how to bring perspectives together is more worthwhile. More importantly, a meaningless existence is not necessarily not a wonder, a miracle, just existing in itself can be a marvel to ponder on each day, without any need for “illusion”.
If the different types or heroism are like life rafts, it seems a good plan to spread your weight over several instead to rely solely on one. This also enables us to shift weight lest one becomes less buoyent due to out-of-our-control circumstances (i.e. your social position changes, illness, etc.)
I would disagree with Beck that the personal hero is unobtainable. By combining Personal heroism and Genuine Heroism you get a man that is only reliant on his own character for meaning and purpose in life. Uncoupled with the illusion of one’s grandeur, accepting ones universal insignificance the let’s call him the self-sustaining hero, will be free to pursue his own purpose and meaning. By not using an external measurement of ones worth as a talent, but rather internal ones like effort and progress you will be able to measure your own worth in your own standards. I think this only can be achieved by realizing as Beck did that one does not need a false illusion of importance to find ones self-worth.
The scale of the universe is a relative scale. And you are the same as it since you are derived from it. Humans are just another of the infinite manifestations of the universe so why would they have any more or any less value then anything else in it? What would something's size have do with with it's MEANING anyway?? Electrons still MEAN something...
@Jason Huffman " Its human nature to fill in the blank out of fear, or comfort. " No it's human nature to obtain something greater beyond our selves. Besides I believe culture heroism was something that was already obtained by someone. Unironically nazi germany.
Becker didn't think that making love or listening to music was meaningless. Obviously our experiences are meaningful, to deny that would be to deny brute fact. He claimed that human life is insignificant in the scheme of things, meaning that what we do really doesn't make any difference to anything. But he thought that we need to believe that it does (hence the urge to heroism) because we are aware that death awaits us.
meaningless when you see yourself as a speck on a rock hurtling through space for billions of years, sure. But that's not the only way of looking at human life. There's no need to choose to not see the dignity of yourself and of conscious life.
By that rationale, iut is equally possible that every word, thought, gesture and action is critically important with effects that echo and reverberate through the very fabric of all existence for eternity
Everything is indeed meaningless - our meaning is derived from our emotional state and set of priorities from a biological/neurological standpoint for each given moment/situation. Sure it's a little bleak at initially, but I'm presently finding it liberating and that much more fulfilling; it makes the meaning I ascribe to things that much more personal and special; I feel honoured and grateful in being able to choose my meaning in that it has been discovered through a journey of challenges. This is not something that is often experienced I think. Not to say it's necessarily better than another perspective... But I do really value it! Everyone's perspective/dream is different, hopefully you're able to find value in yours! Also, I think the Viktor Frankl lecture on this channel would be quite relevant.
Haha I found out too that I was a genuine hero. The whole two videos just seems like nothing ever changed my thoughts . I just surprisingly found out that his ideas have already been contemplated by me before I watch the video
A little novelette called At Last The Hero (available on Amazon) tells the story of a man damaged by not having had hero recognition in the war (WWII). When, eventually, he does become a hero, he comes to realize that heroism is not all glory and can come at a great price.
I think it's very nice to see people looking in to the works of Earnest Becker, and having nice discussions regarding.the topic. I see as a group your having trouble grasping the consents. You mite read Becker's book The Denial Of Death? However without a back ground in the Studies of at-least existentialism, not to mention also Psychology, Social Archaeology, etc etc...I could write a book here on just what it takes to enter these fields of study! It's funny looking back, but i remember how it myself , and two other students 30 minutes of discussion on how to pronounce Soren Kierkegaard's freaking name! Latin terminology such as(causa sui)-In English means" self caused" German, oh ya gotta learn lots of German, and French too. then just to cover the causa sui, you need to start reading Baruch Spinoza,Sigmund Freud, and Jean-Paul Sartre, sust to get ya started....
@John-Paul Hunt Heroism is not a myth and it is not evil. “Great” people with large egos are what brings evil into this world. If heroism is a myth then overcoming is also a myth. We see how stupid this sounds because people overcome things and circumstances all the time. And the bit about heroism being a personal insult is just a form of projection that you are sending outwards. Your personal opinion doesn’t matter one bit because facts are what confirm reality. That’s part of the problem: people touting their opinion as something that must be heard without trying to objectively see stuff for what it is or testing things out to see how things really are. Opinions are really the lowest form of intelligence. The middle ground of pessimism and optimism is realism and EB was definitely the realist author I’ve ever read. Humble all the way until the very end. -“Those who are dissatisfied with themselves are always ready to revenge themselves.”
well. it's SO chic to believe Becker thought outside the triangle, but death has been contemplated by 1000's of philosophers, some kept skulls on their desks. Budhadasa had a family of skeletons on the wall of the main dining room. Volunteerism is [Not quite] the same as Heroism, but way more predominant in the actions of humans. Becker's thinking is, mildly, original,,, but I HAVE to say that so I won't die on the spot.
Ah, somewhere there is hope, When minds set to fly toward freedom, musing life's enlightening force, uninviting falseness where it goes, aimed to reaching Heavens Abode, in eternity's name teaching, precious hearts please the will and seek the mercy of a great and living God, then, death is only a passing in the course.
I really wanted to read this book and opinions people had on it after seeing the profound effect it had on Lex Friedman and Brian Greene. My major take away is that while Becker is without a doubt a deeply intelligent man and writes eloquently. His outlook can easily be interpreted as nihilistic. He falls into the trap most existentialists do with failing to really help the godless and meaningless man find purpose. If I had read this book during the height of my death anxiety I think I would have felt shaken and worse off, not really more educated or better off. I also think that he is mistaken, that while people do need meaning they don't necessarily need a grand cosmic meaning. Yes there are people who do but for the most part I would say no. He fails like many of your everyday Atheists and people who fall into the category of scientism do in not recognizing the beauty and "everyday" meaning in our Naturalist Existence (Not to say many Theistic people don't as well). You don't need to imbue God's, Heaven, Hell and Supernaturalism to see that nothing comes into existence for itself, and while that may not be the grand cosmic meaning some people are looking for, it's still quite spectacular. There's a heavy focus on our current scientific and philosophical paradigm on randomness and meaningless. While I am not in any position to challenge the great minds who have brought us to the level of advancement I enjoy thoughtlessly everyday. I would argue that there is apparent order in the chaos. To quote the stoics, everything that has ever happened to you in your life has been waiting to happen since the beginning of time. I think it really comes down to Perspective. We become a question to ourselves when we focus on the nothingness before our births and after our inevitable deaths. But is Annihilation the most scientific hypothesis for my or your fate? We are here now, but never again and never before? It does not feel quite logical. Perhaps our denial of death is in truth our denial of the impermanence of that which we long to be permanent and our desire and deep seeded feelings of immortality is rooted in the nature of the very stuff we are made of that has existed in one form or another since before the beginning of time and will exist after.
For a human, Becker sure is arrogant, calling confidently the meaningless of existence, when there is so much about existence that is unknown. And then he spoke about making an offering to the life force... Seems brilliant but conflicted.
If he had nothing at all to do with his ' higher men' perhaps. See : the ass festival (thus spake Zarathustra) .He also wrote that his love of man would be to his detriment. (Paraphrased). Hope this helps.
The Denial of Death is a very dangerous book. I became hyper aware that all my actions were to thwart death if but for a moment longer and came to the ultimate question 'to what end?' Needless to say all life lost any meaning I attributed to it and even now, months later it still has no meaning. Suicide became the only real option for why continue if it will end in death anyway? I felt the desperate need to confront my mortality immediately and attempted to take my own life. Obviously it wasn't a success but I still am constantly occupied with death. I don't think ultimate truths are meant for man.
The idea that scale can denote importance even on the existential level is such a modernist delusion. No wonder so many people are totally alienated from themselves! Guenon dissects this nonsense very well in his 'Reign of Quantity'.
Death is not intrinsic related to heroism; for sure heroism is a form of narrative that give us meaning and as all we know there is more types os narratives that can give meaning such as romance. The narrative makes sense is a life cuz makes life aestetic and justify death it self (it is not a denial of death); because all narrative is in time begins and ends. Our will to power of each individual find meaning in a way or another, even if you denial meaning your reason gonna find the Reason it self that justify the having a meaning. Not because its ilusory but because it is rational to have meaning, not because it denial death but because flourish life. Nihilists denial meaning in order to archive inner freedom and now give up of life because their ego say they are now wise individuals out of the crowd and crys because what makes him individual is the denial of meaning in comparasion to others. To Nihilists: what makes yourself special, afirmation of life, is create your own meaning. Aren't you guys wise and rational for that? Now you have the feedom to create yourself and the meaning don't gonna be ilusory anymore.
+BossProductions Because "personal heroism" is described as having no social consensus to back it up. If everyone in society believes you suck as, say, an artist, and you try to convince yourself that you're the most amazing artist ever, you are doomed to fail.
+mr1001nights Yes exactly, 'cuz then you're just making a fool of yourself. Another point is that you'd resolve to isolation which prevents growth. Ugh. It's just doomed to fail
Not that I necessarily think it is doomed, but these two passages show Becker's reasoning as to why he thought it was doomed to fail. "But we know that this attempt is doomed to failure because man simply cannot justify his own heroism; he cannot fit himself into his own cosmic plan and make it believable. He must live with agonizing doubts if he remains in touch at all with the larger reality." (The Denial of Death) "How can one justify his own heroism? He would have to be as God. Now we see even further how guilt is inevitable for man: even as a creator he is a creature overwhelmed by the creative process itself. If you stick out of nature so much that you yourself have to create your own heroic justification, it is too much… the more you develop as a distinctive free and critical human being, the more guilt you have. Your very work accuses you; it makes you feel inferior. What right do you have to play God?" (The Denial of Death)
Further your education, friends! The cosmic gods dance softly in the swiftness of their motion, you yourselves are heir to this. Give your heart to your god(guide) and learn to create as champions of your own genius.
There are too many contradictions in this to single one out. All i will say is that a persons view on the world and of life is dependent upon the chances they have taken and the experiences that have had. A person that has taken more chances and have had different experiences will have a different perspective.
Life is a paradox. Expect a honest and intelligent book on life to be full of paradoxes. And if you don’t believe me look up some koans. Pursuit of wonder has a great video on koans. Yin and Yang and Ouroboros are symbolic embodiments of this.
Though I tend to agree with that last part the rest just seems like a pessimistic dude making an emotionally colored assessment. The human brain in the most complicated known derivative of the physical universe, and for reason. Schopenhauer argued existence only exists so that it may be perceived, making us as perceivers essential to the process. Make love to a beautiful woman or listen to a Bach piece and tell me how it's all meaningless. What is meaninglessness anyway? What DOES have meaning?
Milton .McMilton Making love and listening to music to some people are merely distractions from the bigger picture, i agree "meaning" is just a word that does not suffice when trying to answer the question of wether it's worth doing anything in this world. we're alive so we might aswell take action and enjoy the show while we are here if we can, although some people dont see the point in enjoying the show because the inevitability of death constantly lurks over them so they cant see the point in expending the energy to do things. Both of these views are right, as it's all subjective.
Milton .McMilton Ironically your claim that the human brain is the most complicated known(to us) to the physical universe also indicates the limitation of this "superior brain". The problem with us in general is that they(me not included) think way too highly of themselves as a specie.
"Make love to a beautiful woman". This is covered in the book actually and described as the moment when mind and body are at peace with each other. So you are right in the sense that things seem to make sense when having sex. But if you think about why sex feels so good you will realize that it's just evolution messing with your head. A trick to make you keep the species alive. Therefore it simply reduces your purpose here on earth to that of a monkey, a dog, a cockroach or any other living creature. Human beings like to think there's more to it and therefore invent all the stuff that's described in the book.
Na you missed what that was directed at, I wasn't commenting on Becker's thoughts or anything directly related to this video, I was arguing against a dudes nihilist comment
Every philosophers theory makes sense in some way but thats exactly what all these are. What isnt a theory tho, is that spirits are existing somewhere, thats not made up mumbo jumbo. & Evolutions been debunked..
If believing in an intelligent Designer is delusional, what is the illogical and absurd notion that irreducible complexity and life could occur and replicate itself by chaotic, unpurposeful, and random 'chance',, which ITSELF is not a THING. Congratulations... worst episode ever.
Protip: Don't bring up Becker on a first date.
VetTip: Do whatever you want, however you want, whenever you want
supremetip: I shat my pants
Tinder: difficulty level 10
Protip: if she can't understand or accept your existential suffering then she isn't the right one.
Too late. . .
I believe that these set of ideas gave a pretty nihilistic view on heroism. The undertone of "any attempt at heroism is ultimately self delusion or doomed for failure" isn't the full story. Morality is complicated. Heroism isn't always you vs the world -- it isn't always a competition. I believe our desire for heroism is easy to get confused with our biologic tendencies towards competition and dominance in simplistic hierarchies. They sort of shade into each other.
Yet for me at least, when I watch movies with superheroes or heroic events, at no point am I comparing one person to the other. There's a certain character associated with heroes that I wish to emulate. I think the marvel movies give a good depiction of this point -- there are hundreds of heroes throughout the movie, it seems. The avengers in particular showcases plenty of heroes. Of course some comparisons are made amongst people who ask things like "who is your favorite one?", but ultimately they are all admirable and all speak to something inside us that we wish to express and live by.
In short, I don't believe the thing inside of you that is desperate to express itself requires you being the absolute best at something in comparison to other people. I also don't believe it requires an illusion that convinces you that something that doesn't mean a damned thing is actually super important.
We don't understand what drives us. We don't know why the thoughts that pop into our head actually pop into our head. We don't understand why certain music evokes deep feelings of meaning and inspire us.
Sure, we understand some of it. We aren't a stupid species. But we also understood plenty about the earth before we found out it was round and was orbiting the sun.
Philosophers are beautiful thinkers that shed a lot of light on a very complicated process. But don't let their stunning intelligence scare you away from your hopeful internal voice. We would not be capable of this emotion -- of empathizing with heroes, if it was all for not. It doesn't make sense that all of what drives us, drives us towards an illusion. It doesn't make sense that everything that makes us into our best selves, requires us to trivialize everyone else's existence by comparison. There's a way out of this foggy mess that brings us together, fills us with meaning, and isn't absolutely impossible. Maybe it will be hard, and messy, and possibly even out of the reach of our lifetime... but that's what makes it heroic.
Basically, this is the comment that resonated with me here.
Are you by any chance aware of Carl Jung’s work? ‘Cause what you said reminded me precisely of his thoughts on the “Individuation process” and how the road to individuation differs from one another and that each of us is destined for particular life tasks that life, fate, or god have proposed on us. And we either be guided by them or just suffer meaninglessly.
As in the Roman philosopher, Seneca's quote: “Fates lead the willing, but drag the unwilling.”
Explore the strengths of “geniune heroism”.
Hope is the other side of fear. They come hand in hand. Lose hope, lose fear.
@@skyerscape8454 yet, isn’t’ “hope” an illusion? If so, why not just accept it is, and welcome what is what it is, rather than trying to avoid what is actually hopeless?
@@HealthyPlanet to my mind, hope is an indication that we are identified with some kind of illusion and investment into life. Although if, as you suggested, we can recognise that it’s an illusion anyway then fine, we will be less attached to the outcome.
Doing difficult mental and physical tasks does it. It's the act of overcoming that makes one feel fully alive. A good one I heard the other day: "What other people think of you is none of your business." Be your own hero.
A little novelette called At Last The Hero (available on Amazon) tells the story of a man damaged by not having had hero recognition in the war (WWII). When, eventually, he does become a hero, he comes to realize that heroism is not all glory and can come at a great price.
"What is the most legitimate foolishness?" It's funny cause it's true!
Have to admit, I think there was a lot missing from the intricacies that could be derived from The Denial of Death, and I suggest everyone read the book. Not accusing the OP of any failure, but Becker has a lot to say in such a short book that is worth reading. This whole video could have been made from the introduction and chapter 3/4 of the book.
yes thats why i'm here, to read a book.
@@piplupsuper0 yeah obviously you don't read. My mistake. I didn't take into account you might eventually come across this comment. I'll delete my comment.
Added to the Amazon cart for when I get back from traveling. Are there any editions you recommend or just one was published?
@@PuppyPulverizer Awesome. It's a great book. Maybe a little depressing, but good.
Yeah i read the book and I’ve always watched these videos but when i saw the “introduction to Ernest Becker” playlist i thought to myself this is lacking many many videos
It just occurred to me that this channel NEVER begs for a like, share or subscription... Another reason I love this channel!
SMASH THAT SUBSCRIBE BUTTON!!!! 😭😭😭
“Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather must recognize that it is he who is asked. In a word, each man is questioned by life; and he can only answer to life by answering for his own life; to life he can only respond by being responsible.” - Viktor Frankl
If something is meaningful or not is always relative. A matter of perspective. Discussing meaning is futile. Discussing how to bring perspectives together is more worthwhile.
More importantly, a meaningless existence is not necessarily not a wonder, a miracle, just existing in itself can be a marvel to ponder on each day, without any need for “illusion”.
If the different types or heroism are like life rafts, it seems a good plan to spread your weight over several instead to rely solely on one. This also enables us to shift weight lest one becomes less buoyent due to out-of-our-control circumstances (i.e. your social position changes, illness, etc.)
I would disagree with Beck that the personal hero is unobtainable. By combining Personal heroism and Genuine Heroism you get a man that is only reliant on his own character for meaning and purpose in life. Uncoupled with the illusion of one’s grandeur, accepting ones universal insignificance the let’s call him the self-sustaining hero, will be free to pursue his own purpose and meaning.
By not using an external measurement of ones worth as a talent, but rather internal ones like effort and progress you will be able to measure your own worth in your own standards. I think this only can be achieved by realizing as Beck did that one does not need a false illusion of importance to find ones self-worth.
yes
I would define it by this: a philosophical structure based on psychologic thought.
The scale of the universe is a relative scale. And you are the same as it since you are derived from it. Humans are just another of the infinite manifestations of the universe so why would they have any more or any less value then anything else in it? What would something's size have do with with it's MEANING anyway?? Electrons still MEAN something...
@Jason Huffman " Its human nature to fill in the blank out of fear, or comfort. "
No it's human nature to obtain something greater beyond our selves.
Besides I believe culture heroism was something that was already obtained by someone.
Unironically nazi germany.
I shat my pants
This is such a difficult conversation topic to have with any of your friends. Anyone from Amsterdam around for a coffee on this topic?
Listening to your old videos is a trip, it sounds like you, but slightly sped up.
Becker didn't think that making love or listening to music was meaningless. Obviously our experiences are meaningful, to deny that would be to deny brute fact. He claimed that human life is insignificant in the scheme of things, meaning that what we do really doesn't make any difference to anything. But he thought that we need to believe that it does (hence the urge to heroism) because we are aware that death awaits us.
7:51 is really honest. And yet all we can do is rage, cry, defend, then laugh about it.
👋
May highermen step on me
Ernest Becker succumbed to the urge of heroism himself by pondering on the urge of heroism. You don't say! Excellent video though!
well it wouldnt be true if by realizing it you step outside of its purview
Genuine hero=add chaos/confusion live it in bliss
Congratulations for your channel. Greetings from Chile.
It's quite possible that every word, every thought, every emotion, every creation and every experience is meaningless.
+bob sand How do you feel about it if it is?
Well al long as they aren't meaningless to you, there is at least some meaning to them
meaningless when you see yourself as a speck on a rock hurtling through space for billions of years, sure. But that's not the only way of looking at human life. There's no need to choose to not see the dignity of yourself and of conscious life.
By that rationale, iut is equally possible that every word, thought, gesture and action is critically important with effects that echo and reverberate through the very fabric of all existence for eternity
Everything is indeed meaningless - our meaning is derived from our emotional state and set of priorities from a biological/neurological standpoint for each given moment/situation. Sure it's a little bleak at initially, but I'm presently finding it liberating and that much more fulfilling; it makes the meaning I ascribe to things that much more personal and special; I feel honoured and grateful in being able to choose my meaning in that it has been discovered through a journey of challenges. This is not something that is often experienced I think. Not to say it's necessarily better than another perspective... But I do really value it! Everyone's perspective/dream is different, hopefully you're able to find value in yours!
Also, I think the Viktor Frankl lecture on this channel would be quite relevant.
Well....I am definitely a Genuine Hero.
Haha I found out too that I was a genuine hero. The whole two videos just seems like nothing ever changed my thoughts . I just surprisingly found out that his ideas have already been contemplated by me before I watch the video
A little novelette called At Last The Hero (available on Amazon) tells the story of a man damaged by not having had hero recognition in the war (WWII). When, eventually, he does become a hero, he comes to realize that heroism is not all glory and can come at a great price.
I save myself..poist meaning in my life.. I'm a hero to myself.. expect adversity daily and be eager to overcome 🗡️
Going to the DMV contributes to my heroism.
What are Becker’s most important books?
The denial of death, and escape from evil.
Can someone please explain what is said @9:18? Couldn't get what it means.
It means "Don't even try being a hero as it is a waste of time; just create something for the sake of it."
Amazing videos!
There it is, the terrible TRUTH laid bare. Ending was abrupt though. Could use some more there at the end, going alittle further if at-all possible.
Jesus fucking christ this put Words to all of my thoughts. amazing
Thanks academy!
I think it's very nice to see people looking in to the works of Earnest Becker, and having nice discussions regarding.the topic. I see as a group your having trouble grasping the consents. You mite read Becker's book The Denial Of Death? However without a back ground in the Studies of at-least existentialism, not to mention also Psychology, Social Archaeology, etc etc...I could write a book here on just what it takes to enter these fields of study! It's funny looking back, but i remember how it myself , and two other students 30 minutes of discussion on how to pronounce Soren Kierkegaard's freaking name! Latin terminology such as(causa sui)-In English means"
self caused" German, oh ya gotta learn lots of German, and French too. then just to cover the causa sui, you need to start reading Baruch Spinoza,Sigmund Freud, and Jean-Paul Sartre, sust to get ya started....
Heroism is killed by the blood! Everything, in fact, is failure! We find leisure remains of constants yet to be put down . . . Another vid well done!
@John-Paul Hunt Heroism is not a myth and it is not evil. “Great” people with large egos are what brings evil into this world. If heroism is a myth then overcoming is also a myth. We see how stupid this sounds because people overcome things and circumstances all the time. And the bit about heroism being a personal insult is just a form of projection that you are sending outwards. Your personal opinion doesn’t matter one bit because facts are what confirm reality. That’s part of the problem: people touting their opinion as something that must be heard without trying to objectively see stuff for what it is or testing things out to see how things really are. Opinions are really the lowest form of intelligence. The middle ground of pessimism and optimism is realism and EB was definitely the realist author I’ve ever read. Humble all the way until the very end.
-“Those who are dissatisfied with themselves are always ready to revenge themselves.”
Thanks!
Many thanks.
Become a hero or become an hero?
Would this be classed as philosophy or psychology?
A bit of both ?
Adler said all of this with different vocabulary.
Not quite.
well. it's SO chic to believe Becker thought outside the triangle, but death has been contemplated by 1000's of philosophers, some kept skulls on their desks. Budhadasa had a family of skeletons on the wall of the main dining room. Volunteerism is [Not quite] the same as Heroism, but way more predominant in the actions of humans. Becker's thinking is, mildly, original,,, but I HAVE to say that so I won't die on the spot.
That's a very unsatisfactory ending
Ah, somewhere there is hope, When minds set to fly toward freedom, musing life's enlightening force, uninviting falseness where it goes, aimed to reaching Heavens Abode, in eternity's name teaching, precious hearts please the will and seek the mercy of a great and living God, then, death is only a passing in the course.
Can’t do that sing song voice
If the thought of me is followed by a story I'm all good.
Do a video on Carlyle
I really wanted to read this book and opinions people had on it after seeing the profound effect it had on Lex Friedman and Brian Greene.
My major take away is that while Becker is without a doubt a deeply intelligent man and writes eloquently. His outlook can easily be interpreted as nihilistic. He falls into the trap most existentialists do with failing to really help the godless and meaningless man find purpose.
If I had read this book during the height of my death anxiety I think I would have felt shaken and worse off, not really more educated or better off. I also think that he is mistaken, that while people do need meaning they don't necessarily need a grand cosmic meaning. Yes there are people who do but for the most part I would say no. He fails like many of your everyday Atheists and people who fall into the category of scientism do in not recognizing the beauty and "everyday" meaning in our Naturalist Existence (Not to say many Theistic people don't as well). You don't need to imbue God's, Heaven, Hell and Supernaturalism to see that nothing comes into existence for itself, and while that may not be the grand cosmic meaning some people are looking for, it's still quite spectacular.
There's a heavy focus on our current scientific and philosophical paradigm on randomness and meaningless. While I am not in any position to challenge the great minds who have brought us to the level of advancement I enjoy thoughtlessly everyday. I would argue that there is apparent order in the chaos. To quote the stoics, everything that has ever happened to you in your life has been waiting to happen since the beginning of time. I think it really comes down to Perspective.
We become a question to ourselves when we focus on the nothingness before our births and after our inevitable deaths. But is Annihilation the most scientific hypothesis for my or your fate? We are here now, but never again and never before? It does not feel quite logical. Perhaps our denial of death is in truth our denial of the impermanence of that which we long to be permanent and our desire and deep seeded feelings of immortality is rooted in the nature of the very stuff we are made of that has existed in one form or another since before the beginning of time and will exist after.
Spoken like a true creature
@@the911tree thank you, I think lol
For a human, Becker sure is arrogant, calling confidently the meaningless of existence, when there is so much about existence that is unknown. And then he spoke about making an offering to the life force...
Seems brilliant but conflicted.
Lovecraft must have been influenced by Becker or it least the concepts outlined here.
lovecraft came before
Going by Becker's ideas, wouldn't Nietzche's higher man be doomed to fail since he seeks personal heroism?
If he had nothing at all to do with his ' higher men' perhaps.
See : the ass festival (thus spake Zarathustra) .He also wrote that his love of man would be to his detriment. (Paraphrased).
Hope this helps.
The Denial of Death is a very dangerous book. I became hyper aware that all my actions were to thwart death if but for a moment longer and came to the ultimate question 'to what end?' Needless to say all life lost any meaning I attributed to it and even now, months later it still has no meaning. Suicide became the only real option for why continue if it will end in death anyway? I felt the desperate need to confront my mortality immediately and attempted to take my own life. Obviously it wasn't a success but I still am constantly occupied with death. I don't think ultimate truths are meant for man.
The idea that scale can denote importance even on the existential level is such a modernist delusion. No wonder so many people are totally alienated from themselves! Guenon dissects this nonsense very well in his 'Reign of Quantity'.
Despite having a silly username, you give an interesting interpretation.
Death is not
intrinsic related to heroism; for sure heroism is a form of narrative that give us meaning and as all we know there is more types os narratives that can give meaning such as romance. The narrative makes sense is a life cuz makes life aestetic and justify death it self (it is not a denial of death); because all narrative is in time begins and ends.
Our will to power of each individual find meaning in a way or another, even if you denial meaning your reason gonna find the Reason it self that justify the having a meaning. Not because its ilusory but because it is rational to have meaning, not because it denial death but because flourish life.
Nihilists denial meaning in order to archive inner freedom and now give up of life because their ego say they are now wise individuals out of the crowd and crys because what makes him individual is the denial of meaning in comparasion to others.
To Nihilists: what makes yourself special, afirmation of life, is create your own meaning. Aren't you guys wise and rational for that? Now you have the feedom to create yourself and the meaning don't gonna be ilusory anymore.
How the hell is personal heroism doomed to fail?
+BossProductions
Because "personal heroism" is described as having no social consensus to back it up. If everyone in society believes you suck as, say, an artist, and you try to convince yourself that you're the most amazing artist ever, you are doomed to fail.
+mr1001nights Yes exactly, 'cuz then you're just making a fool of yourself. Another point is that you'd resolve to isolation which prevents growth. Ugh. It's just doomed to fail
Not that I necessarily think it is doomed, but these two passages show Becker's reasoning as to why he thought it was doomed to fail.
"But we know that this attempt is doomed to failure because man simply cannot justify his own heroism; he cannot fit himself into his own cosmic plan and make it believable. He must live with agonizing doubts if he remains in touch at all with the larger reality." (The Denial of Death)
"How can one justify his own heroism? He would have to be as God. Now we see even further how guilt is inevitable for man: even as a creator he is a creature overwhelmed by the creative process itself. If you stick out of nature so much that you yourself have to create your own heroic justification, it is too much… the more you develop as a distinctive free and critical human being, the more guilt you have. Your very work accuses you; it makes you feel inferior. What right do you have to play God?" (The Denial of Death)
Further your education, friends! The cosmic gods dance softly in the swiftness of their motion, you yourselves are heir to this. Give your heart to your god(guide) and learn to create as champions of your own genius.
cause you die just like any bug and you'll be forgotten in time. Heroism will not save anything ultimately.
My mistake!
Jesus man this is depressing
Who created the first painting in the video?
Jean-Léon Gérôme
There are too many contradictions in this to single one out. All i will say is that a persons view on the world and of life is dependent upon the chances they have taken and the experiences that have had. A person that has taken more chances and have had different experiences will have a different perspective.
Life is a paradox. Expect a honest and intelligent book on life to be full of paradoxes. And if you don’t believe me look up some koans. Pursuit of wonder has a great video on koans. Yin and Yang and Ouroboros are symbolic embodiments of this.
The ending makes me feel like an ant.
You don’t feel like an ant my friend, you are an ant.
nihilism is fun
lol
Flirting with it is. Being immersed in it for more than a minute is hell.
have fun with that, bro
Is it?
I want to be the god unto my self.
Hell yeah!
Though I tend to agree with that last part the rest just seems like a pessimistic dude making an emotionally colored assessment. The human brain in the most complicated known derivative of the physical universe, and for reason. Schopenhauer argued existence only exists so that it may be perceived, making us as perceivers essential to the process. Make love to a beautiful woman or listen to a Bach piece and tell me how it's all meaningless. What is meaninglessness anyway? What DOES have meaning?
Milton .McMilton Making love and listening to music to some people are merely distractions from the bigger picture, i agree "meaning" is just a word that does not suffice when trying to answer the question of wether it's worth doing anything in this world. we're alive so we might aswell take action and enjoy the show while we are here if we can, although some people dont see the point in enjoying the show because the inevitability of death constantly lurks over them so they cant see the point in expending the energy to do things. Both of these views are right, as it's all subjective.
Joseph Campbell once suggested that people are not looking for the meaning of life so much as the experience of being alive.
Milton .McMilton Ironically your claim that the human brain is the most complicated known(to us) to the physical universe also indicates the limitation of this "superior brain". The problem with us in general is that they(me not included) think way too highly of themselves as a specie.
I'm confidently guessing you're commenting on Becker without every having read any of his books. Am I right?
"Make love to a beautiful woman". This is covered in the book actually and described as the moment when mind and body are at peace with each other. So you are right in the sense that things seem to make sense when having sex. But if you think about why sex feels so good you will realize that it's just evolution messing with your head. A trick to make you keep the species alive. Therefore it simply reduces your purpose here on earth to that of a monkey, a dog, a cockroach or any other living creature.
Human beings like to think there's more to it and therefore invent all the stuff that's described in the book.
Na you missed what that was directed at, I wasn't commenting on Becker's thoughts or anything directly related to this video, I was arguing against a dudes nihilist comment
We are immortal
Every philosophers theory makes sense in some way but thats exactly what all these are. What isnt a theory tho, is that spirits are existing somewhere, thats not made up mumbo jumbo. & Evolutions been debunked..
Now, about this global warming extinction scenario -- no, nevermind
Bleak AF….=D
Wow, what a pessimistic perspective.
...and wrong
If believing in an intelligent Designer is delusional, what is the illogical and absurd notion that irreducible complexity and life could occur and replicate itself by chaotic, unpurposeful, and random 'chance',, which ITSELF is not a THING. Congratulations... worst episode ever.
On his death bed, Becker apparently admitted his faith in God.
Indian philosophers realized this 5000 years ago. European philosophers are like children.
Hinduism : We are both food, and eaters of food.
So things like Feminism etc. are coming in extremes because of such simple reason?
I've almost died once and nearly committed suicide twice. I have no fear of death.
do not lie.
@@edeliteedelite1961 Do not pester and speak on what you don't know nor understand.
@@edeliteedelite1961 Do not be arrogant.