just install vertical panels where you would put up a fence. solar panel fences are going to be cheaper than good wood fences. may not be in the best location, but since they are doing the job of a fence the installation is basically free.
Yes, solar panel fences are a good option, but due to weather conditions like rain, snow, wind, etc., if they start getting tilted to the surface, that problem can reduce the lifespan of solar panels, cables etc.
Vertical installation might also help with hail damage mitigation. Anybody experienced with using vertical installation in regions where hail storms are more frequent?
I wish it were true, but I tested a 400 watt Trina panel in the vertical position and at 45° to ground and found the angled position was actually producing more power. sigh
it would be interesting to see this tested more places arund the world i live in scandinavia and my thought was that i cant apply this research to where i live or to the equator a dude on youtube also tested this very well, if i remeber correct it was in ohio so that is pretty much the same as nl
Just complimenting the duck curve of horizontal panels to capture more energy during dawn and dusk should be enough to push the optimum arrangement of new PV towards more vertical in areas where horizontal is already well established.
more of a two hump camel output once in the morning and once in the afternoon. should also happen with vertical panels facing east to capture morning and west to capture afternoon sun.. no solar output during the noon time sun. sounds odd .. have seen where some are using the vertical panes to do fences rather than taking up roof tops
2.5% increase, based in The Netherlands research, is not HUGE. If you change the mounting of solar panels, the best increase in generation is to follow the sun mechanism, which is an estimated 40% increase. And the cost of those mechanisms is not really worth the investment, according to some other researchers.
Sometimes we need to choose what really serves the purpose of a solar energy generation system rather than blindly run after getting maximum energy generation output... Below are 2 scenarios with solar generation systems., The choice is yours :) A. Safe, Steady, Less maintenance, Compromised energy generation (Through parallel to surface horizontally installation setup)... This will hold true for vertical installation setups except for the compromised energy generation part, which is claimed higher in this video, which is great news!) B. Compromised safety, Unsteady, Higher/frequent maintenance, Highest energy generation (Through horizontally tilted to surface installation setup)
That is true. Horizontally fixed panels are less efficient for 2 reasons 1. They heat the surface below them which radiates back and 2. There is less air circulation under the panels.
This is a USA problem. $2 per watt goes to the sales organization sourcing the customer. In Australia and France the market is more mature the cost of installation and components is $1.10 per watt.
There is a building on which the solar panels are vertical along the full height of the building. I noticed that other buildings were following suit soon after. They must have realized that they were more efficient and less maintenance costs. This must have improved their ROI. So instead of installing the panels on the roof, I may want to try placing them vertical in my yard. No need to worry about snow accumulation nor frequent cleaning nor bird droppings. As long as they get enough exposure to the sun, then I should see an improvement over the traditional methods.
I could not agree more. I have power stations because I rent. I physically move my panels throughout the day. In summer here in Fl. I put my panels vertical b/w the hours of 4 pm to 8 pm and 7 am to 11 am. I get more production in those hours because its longer times and panels are much cooler.
@@jeffjwatts Got any published reports to back your assertion? If the mounting poles are stout enough, I wouldn't think the panels themselves would be damaged by high winds.
Yeah, my system gets snow cover for sometimes weeks at a time here in Michigan, a time when I need the power the most. Bifacial vertical South facing installation is my next system, little chance of snow cover for long, and no hail damage.
This might be a better approach especially for Floating Photovoltaics installation in Germany, where panels are allowed to cover a maximum of 15% of the whole lake and at the same time maintain a 40m distance from the shore. With vertical installation, it means that it will still be possible to install panels in small lakes and also compared to horizontal more panels will be installed in a small area.I’m just worried about shading effect that comes with such installation.
I am going to give vertical solar panel mounting a try. I currently have a 6' Privacy fence on the north side of my property that is never shaded by any trees. A rarity! I also have a 3' path of sun bleached sea shells along the base of the fence that reflect an unbelievable amount of light. I will be adding a wider path of shells for more sun reflection and I will also be experimenting with adding a white section of fence to reflect on the rear of the bi facial panels. I am looking at vertical mounted panels with a slight adjustable angle to adjust for seasonal solar angle and fine tune the reflection angle. Should be a great project with a lot of (Raspberry Pi) data to analyze for fine tuning and project modifications. Oh, and a lot of Central Florida sun!
why not compare to laying flat. see if it is actually better in your situation. I bought a single 100 watt panel some 8-10 years ago. I found it produced such little power, it will never pay for itself. today the cost is half what it was back then, so it might be worth trying with another single new panel and see what the real world results look like.
More northern regions dont have the heat related issues and Solar performs much better in our cooler climate. Bifacial panels work very well for those dark winter periods when we are hoping for 2 solar hours a day. Chilled bifacial panels increase harvest when snow reflects light to the back of the panels. Here in South Central Alaska during the Winter Solstice, the ideal panel angle is 7 degrees of tilt. With our long summer days when the sun is high in the sky, we might use a 47 degree tilt.
Here in Michigan my roof panels are sometimes covered with snow for weeks at a time, a time when I need the power the most. Vertical wouldn't have this issue nearly as much, and if they are bifacial you have the added benefit behind them.
I have vertical mount, snow and dirt never sticks rains washes almost all dirt. I can make a 3.6kw array out of 2x4 ,36 of them, only 3 pcs have to be cut and screw together, and you can mount huge panels solo. My 2.8 array makes 780w full overcast. In winter with sun and snow the 2.8 makes 3.5kw, in summer 2.8 makes 1.8kw with no reflective, eg. white rock, but I still generate 2x what I could use per day. South facing, east west is a waste. The albedo gains plus south sun works best for me. Like most of the commenters figured out, how many vertical windows have you seen damaged in a hailstorm? The part of risky costly install of vertical does not apply in my yard.
I wonder if you were to cover the ground with a white heavy plastic level, of course 20‘ x 40‘ and put vertical solar panels on it would you get more because white is UV reflective?
I suspect bifacial vertically mounted solar panels will show up MOSTLY as solar fencing along highways, private property lines, etc. There's PLENTY of unused land where these would make sense. If you combined vertically mounted solar fencing WITH solar roofs even the hottest desert property could have both shade and huge solar power output potential... I don't think we're likely to see TALL walls of solar like is speculated on in the end of the video... Structurally and economically it would make little sense I suspect...But anything under 6' to 8' which is a standard height? Not only plausible but likely...
white frp makes a great reflective uv proof base under bifacial solar panels . no paint completely weatherproof. I am going to use it on my container roof with tilting panels
Totally wrong concept, for the experiment take a single panel and put an ammeter on it while changing the angle to the sun's rays, when the sun falls perfectly perpendicular you have the highest efficiency/current/amperage.
18 дней назад
They are talking bifacial panels that can take advantage of reflected light and the bent light that passes through the materials of the light facing side.. I saw some experiments where they used clean white stones and 600 watt reflective panels that were angled to reflect light toward the vertical panels on both faces.. The energy collection was certainly superior to a single face panel but not as good as 2 single faced 300 watt panels oriented at an optimal angle to the Sun..
That is a very bold claim that is trivially simple to validate with an equally trivial "empirical" study. Place two arrays side-by-side and measure wattage from each. Nothing wrong with vertical PV panels, if the owner can justify them, rather than the taxpayer, but as Richard Feynman might say: it doesn't matter what you wish your study says...
I did this same test with one Jinko 400 watt panel, I measured the Voltage and Amps in the exact vertical position, but I found that I got about 3 Amps more if I tilted the panels back toward the ground surface - about 45° (I live at Latitude -27°). I would love if this vertical mounting were true, but is it only true for bifacial panels.
If the panels are mounted at the proper angle in reference to the sun and not just "on a roof" and there is plenty of ventilation space behind the panels, then no. I don't agree. Each installation has it's own issues. Wind load would be a very big factor for vertical installations.
@@gareon54 like any mounting just depends upon how one mounts them landscape or portrait and how they are fastened to the ground .. Being a sailor for a very long time I can tell you wind is a lot more powerful than most folks realize
just install vertical panels where you would put up a fence. solar panel fences are going to be cheaper than good wood fences. may not be in the best location, but since they are doing the job of a fence the installation is basically free.
Yes, solar panel fences are a good option, but due to weather conditions like rain, snow, wind, etc., if they start getting tilted to the surface, that problem can reduce the lifespan of solar panels, cables etc.
Vertical installation might also help with hail damage mitigation. Anybody experienced with using vertical installation in regions where hail storms are more frequent?
I wish it were true, but I tested a 400 watt Trina panel in the vertical position and at 45° to ground and found the angled position was actually producing more power. sigh
You are right
True
It is for short time. You have to calculate for long time. Like 3 month or 6 month
Latitude of Netherlands is 50-54 N. So being vertical there means the panels are at an angle of approximately 52 degrees to the Sun.
it would be interesting to see this tested more places arund the world
i live in scandinavia and my thought was that i cant apply this research to where i live or to the equator
a dude on youtube also tested this very well, if i remeber correct it was in ohio so that is pretty much the same as nl
Just complimenting the duck curve of horizontal panels to capture more energy during dawn and dusk should be enough to push the optimum arrangement of new PV towards more vertical in areas where horizontal is already well established.
the main drawback might be the windload: fine for fieldmounting, but not on roofs.
more of a two hump camel output once in the morning and once in the afternoon. should also happen with vertical panels facing east to capture morning and west to capture afternoon sun.. no solar output during the noon time sun. sounds odd .. have seen where some are using the vertical panes to do fences rather than taking up roof tops
The major undoing of bifacial is low production at the peak in fixed position.
i would love to see what a vertical tracker rack could add to all this
2.5% increase, based in The Netherlands research, is not HUGE. If you change the mounting of solar panels, the best increase in generation is to follow the sun mechanism, which is an estimated 40% increase. And the cost of those mechanisms is not really worth the investment, according to some other researchers.
Sometimes we need to choose what really serves the purpose of a solar energy generation system rather than blindly run after getting maximum energy generation output... Below are 2 scenarios with solar generation systems., The choice is yours :)
A. Safe, Steady, Less maintenance, Compromised energy generation (Through parallel to surface horizontally installation setup)... This will hold true for vertical installation setups except for the compromised energy generation part, which is claimed higher in this video, which is great news!)
B. Compromised safety, Unsteady, Higher/frequent maintenance, Highest energy generation (Through horizontally tilted to surface installation setup)
That is true. Horizontally fixed panels are less efficient for 2 reasons 1. They heat the surface below them which radiates back and 2. There is less air circulation under the panels.
Installers are charging too much to install PV panels. They are pricing themselves out of business. Greed never wins.
This is a USA problem. $2 per watt goes to the sales organization sourcing the customer. In Australia and France the market is more mature the cost of installation and components is $1.10 per watt.
I charge 2.25 a watt
There is a building on which the solar panels are vertical along the full height of the building. I noticed that other buildings were following suit soon after. They must have realized that they were more efficient and less maintenance costs. This must have improved their ROI. So instead of installing the panels on the roof, I may want to try placing them vertical in my yard. No need to worry about snow accumulation nor frequent cleaning nor bird droppings. As long as they get enough exposure to the sun, then I should see an improvement over the traditional methods.
The importance of. Vertical installation is that produces less during peak hours but more earlier and late afternoon.
Trcking monofacoal panels mounted east _west gives more power than fixed bifacial panels. Giving more power throughout
@@sethsipakati6818 that is correct in Dominican Republic a lot of people are placing it that way
I could not agree more. I have power stations because I rent. I physically move my panels throughout the day. In summer here in Fl. I put my panels vertical b/w the hours of 4 pm to 8 pm and 7 am to 11 am. I get more production in those hours because its longer times and panels are much cooler.
with a solar tracker you can change that
we just need solar trackers for vertical systems
Solar tracker are more expensive than just more panels, having more panel help in cloudy days.
High wind speeds should also be considered
Vertical panels would take more damage during high wind conditions.
@@jeffjwatts Got any published reports to back your assertion? If the mounting poles are stout enough, I wouldn't think the panels themselves would be damaged by high winds.
Yeah, my system gets snow cover for sometimes weeks at a time here in Michigan, a time when I need the power the most. Bifacial vertical South facing installation is my next system, little chance of snow cover for long, and no hail damage.
This might be a better approach especially for Floating Photovoltaics installation in Germany, where panels are allowed to cover a maximum of 15% of the whole lake and at the same time maintain a 40m distance from the shore. With vertical installation, it means that it will still be possible to install panels in small lakes and also compared to horizontal more panels will be installed in a small area.I’m just worried about shading effect that comes with such installation.
Shading is not a concern, Reflection off the water will void any shade from modules.
shading would be posible to avoid, more or less, but some sort of vertical tracker rack would be needed for that
I am going to give vertical solar panel mounting a try. I currently have a 6' Privacy fence on the north side of my property that is never shaded by any trees. A rarity! I also have a 3' path of sun bleached sea shells along the base of the fence that reflect an unbelievable amount of light. I will be adding a wider path of shells for more sun reflection and I will also be experimenting with adding a white section of fence to reflect on the rear of the bi facial panels. I am looking at vertical mounted panels with a slight adjustable angle to adjust for seasonal solar angle and fine tune the reflection angle. Should be a great project with a lot of (Raspberry Pi) data to analyze for fine tuning and project modifications. Oh, and a lot of Central Florida sun!
I am experimenting with pv plates at my house and all the pv plates i have installed so far are vertically fixed.
would love to see pictures of your installation
why not compare to laying flat. see if it is actually better in your situation. I bought a single 100 watt panel some 8-10 years ago. I found it produced such little power, it will never pay for itself. today the cost is half what it was back then, so it might be worth trying with another single new panel and see what the real world results look like.
More northern regions dont have the heat related issues and Solar performs much better in our cooler climate.
Bifacial panels work very well for those dark winter periods when we are hoping for 2 solar hours a day. Chilled bifacial panels increase harvest when snow reflects light to the back of the panels.
Here in South Central Alaska during the Winter Solstice, the ideal panel angle is 7 degrees of tilt. With our long summer days when the sun is high in the sky, we might use a 47 degree tilt.
Here in Michigan my roof panels are sometimes covered with snow for weeks at a time, a time when I need the power the most. Vertical wouldn't have this issue nearly as much, and if they are bifacial you have the added benefit behind them.
Vertical mounts is 1000% cheaper than a top of pole mount so in snow country this is bigger than 2.5% because of the savings on mounting them
2.5% annual gain? Worth the price for a small solar array?
I have vertical mount, snow and dirt never sticks rains washes almost all dirt. I can make a 3.6kw array out of 2x4 ,36 of them, only 3 pcs have to be cut and screw together, and you can mount huge panels solo. My 2.8 array makes 780w full overcast. In winter with sun and snow the 2.8 makes 3.5kw, in summer 2.8 makes 1.8kw with no reflective, eg. white rock, but I still generate 2x what I could use per day. South facing, east west is a waste. The albedo gains plus south sun works best for me. Like most of the commenters figured out, how many vertical windows have you seen damaged in a hailstorm? The part of risky costly install of vertical does not apply in my yard.
It was amazing video. In the whole video we did not see any actual vertical installations even for testing purpose 😂
As Panel prices drop then double sided vertical panels installed E/W could be a real help in peak hours!!
The 2.5% advantage doesn't seem like much. Is this for fixed position operation, or for tracking operation?
They are not tracking . Tracked monofacocial in east west arrangements can yield much more.
as the sun orientation moves, there's less and less irradiance on the vertical panels, so this is simply wrong.
I wonder if you were to cover the ground with a white heavy plastic level, of course 20‘ x 40‘ and put vertical solar panels on it would you get more because white is UV reflective?
The comparison and angles precision of Wind Force in different locations, would have to be thorough. Sounds Good though, Thank you for the Video
I suspect bifacial vertically mounted solar panels will show up MOSTLY as solar fencing along highways, private property lines, etc. There's PLENTY of unused land where these would make sense. If you combined vertically mounted solar fencing WITH solar roofs even the hottest desert property could have both shade and huge solar power output potential... I don't think we're likely to see TALL walls of solar like is speculated on in the end of the video... Structurally and economically it would make little sense I suspect...But anything under 6' to 8' which is a standard height? Not only plausible but likely...
As a electrical engineer For 40 years this makes absolute sense to me
Does this only apply to Bi-facial panels. What about normal one sided solar panels???
white frp makes a great reflective uv proof base under bifacial solar panels . no paint completely weatherproof. I am going to use it on my container roof with tilting panels
Totally wrong concept, for the experiment take a single panel and put an ammeter on it while changing the angle to the sun's rays, when the sun falls perfectly perpendicular you have the highest efficiency/current/amperage.
They are talking bifacial panels that can take advantage of reflected light and the bent light that passes through the materials of the light facing side.. I saw some experiments where they used clean white stones and 600 watt reflective panels that were angled to reflect light toward the vertical panels on both faces.. The energy collection was certainly superior to a single face panel but not as good as 2 single faced 300 watt panels oriented at an optimal angle to the Sun..
hope more research in this topic
Verticle Solar Mounting, is less vulnerable to hail stones, or not vulnerable at all.
That is a very bold claim that is trivially simple to validate with an equally trivial "empirical" study. Place two arrays side-by-side and measure wattage from each.
Nothing wrong with vertical PV panels, if the owner can justify them, rather than the taxpayer, but as Richard Feynman might say: it doesn't matter what you wish your study says...
I did this same test with one Jinko 400 watt panel, I measured the Voltage and Amps in the exact vertical position, but I found that I got about 3 Amps more if I tilted the panels back toward the ground surface - about 45° (I live at Latitude -27°). I would love if this vertical mounting were true, but is it only true for bifacial panels.
If horizontal pv panels had liquid cooling tubes on the back, they could be cooled and still receive greater irradiance.
Do you agree with the researchers to change all solar panels to be vertical?
no leave the panels that are installed alone.. only new installations as space permits.
No the infrastructure required for forces such as high winds negates any gains.
If the panels are mounted at the proper angle in reference to the sun and not just "on a roof" and there is plenty of ventilation space behind the panels, then no. I don't agree. Each installation has it's own issues. Wind load would be a very big factor for vertical installations.
@@gareon54 like any mounting just depends upon how one mounts them landscape or portrait and how they are fastened to the ground .. Being a sailor for a very long time I can tell you wind is a lot more powerful than most folks realize
Which researches? Can you post a link to a research? You could have made this all up.
I wonder if the ground was white would it reflect more and stay cooler.
Are you comparing with HORIZONTAL or INCLINED panels?
Thanks
heat.
Misleading title too much hue ad cry for mere 2.5% still useless for rooftops as hailstorm will rip apart sopar panels
Taking too long to get to the point. I give up
Sorry for that. The video is devided in many chapters, so you may go directly to your interested part.
you cant go comparing bifacials with normal systems.. bait bait
soon we will no longer have single sided, everything will be bifacial. they work better everywhere you would put single sided panels.
@@scottmcshannon6821 Not where most people put them - on roofs.