Fiberglass Resin Setting Up WAY Too FAST In This Heat!!! How To Slow It Down??
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2021
- This is a topic that's been in the hopper for a while now, just wish that I had the regular audio equipment for it lol!! Oh well, all will be in place for next week, the info is still there :-)
Support the companies that help to make these videos possible (their products are the best out there, otherwise I would not be using them!!) Learn more about them below:
- Totalboat: bit.ly/2X4wT0ZTotalboat
- Alexseal Yacht Coatings: bit.ly/2tdNzZKAlexseal
- SoftSand Rubber Nonskid Discount 10% OFF when you use code BWT10
www.softsandrubber.com/
* Order Total Boat Supplies HERE and Help Support Boatworks Today with your purchase!:
bit.ly/2E1a0or
** Looking for help with your project? Check out my Patreon page for consultation options!
/ boatworkstoday
*** Need help choosing the best resin for your project? Download our fiberglass Resin Guide:
bit.ly/2PCr72e
**** Subscribe To This Channel!!
ruclips.net/user/boatwork...
***** Shop our Amazon store for the materials used in this video!
www.amazon.com/shop/boatworks...
There is additional content and ad-free versions of these video’s available for Patreon supporters! Please click below to find out more!!
/ boatworkstoday
#BoatworksToday #TotalBoat #Alexseal
One thing to consider ( wind turbine Blade technician here) when cooling your resin on a hot day, if your temperature difference is to wide you can actually cause condensation to form and moisture & resin don't mix well (think of a bottle of coke fresh from the fridge) because of this our engineers won't let us have more than a 10⁰ differential. Especially applying cold resin to a warm surface (or vice versa) moisture was developing between the new laminate and the existing surface causing debonding as it cured and the moisture turned to steam.
Good information Andy. I do have a couple of suggestions. First, when you put a larger batch of resin into a paint tray, use a metal tray and put the tray in some cold water. That will keep the resin cool for longer and extend the working time. Second, using small batches or cooling the resin is fine for keeping the resin from gelling. However, as soon as you put the resin on the surface/fabric, the resin temp will come to the surface fabric temp and things will start happening fast if the surface was warm/hot. This can be an issue when doing large projects like building a hull/deck. If your shop isn't temperature controlled you can extend the working time on the project by working in the morning BEFORE the project warms up. Also, if working outside - don't work on surfaces that are in the sun. Trying to glass a 150 degree surface is definitely no fun. Since I live in Maine working in hot weather isn't generally a problem since hot days (75+) are few and far between here. However, we do have to work in cooler temps now and then (like 10 months a year). I am looking forward to your tips for cold temp work.
Note: you are brave man putting a cup of poly resin in the home freezer.
Thank you! Excellent explanation and demonstration and spot on timing especially here. Finishing up the outer hull repair and finish and about to start laminating the stringer, bulkhead and transom fabrication for a completely rotted out 1983 boat. Your pamphlet has been extremely helpful last few months! Your information is much appreciated and the temp here today is 113 during daytime and gets down to 95 at about 10pm, so Thank You Again!
Your "situation" is giving you time to explain how things work and is very much appreciated. Thank you!
great info, I'm just starting out and as temps up here in Canada are getting summerish , I've had a couple batches go off noticeably faster than i wanted. Both of these "cheats' you demo'd and explained will help me a bunch! Thanks!
As always thanks for the video! You have been a huge help in the overhaul of my 19', 1976 Fiberform! I'm finishing the glass work on the stringers this week!! Hopefully laying the deck by the weekend!
Wow! Fantastic. I'm mid project in 80°, high humidity. Thank you!
Putting the first coat of epoxy on my boat deck today. Thanks for all you advice.
Yes please, on the various hardeners.
Very glad to see you back again.
Your joke was actually very true. I live in South Alabama( not from here) . Some people wear jackets all year. They are cold in anything less than 90. Tropical hardener is the norm here for half the year. I may wait till winter to finish our boat . Just too damn hot and humid now ! Maybe I should move North?
This was very interesting, been a long time that I had to do any fiberglass, like late teens. So any information is good information . Thanks for sharing and taking the time to put these videos out!
So here I am in south Florida doing some small glass repair trying to figure out why my resin gelled up in 5 minutes. Could have used this video a few hours ago! Haha. Would have saved me a ton of mixing cups!Thanks again. Great stuff!
Great information! Yes, would like to see three epoxy hardener test.
That was awesome! I hadn’t thought about cooling the resin first.
Very helpful! Wish I would have known these tricks a month ago when I fiberglassed my bus roof in 80F outdoors. Good for next time
Great timing! I was about to make a new hatch today.
Thanks Andy, working on an actioncraft flats master 2, full restore, transom,stringers,bilge redesign in North Florida, gonna get that cooler full of ice,👍
Great timing. 100+ here in Vegas. Thanks!
Super job Andy
Another great vid we will see when I go to do my repairs in the fall
Thanks for this I was getting worried about the heat! Starting my first boat project this summer, we’ll talk soon Andy!
The epoxy test would be great, and doing a comparable equal to the Poly volume and also comparing working time between.
Thanks Andy
Great info, thank you.
You're dealing with heat and the big move and still making time for your your youtube posse. Nice...
Great information Andi! This might give me a chance to finish a second project. I have two questions I would like to have answered. And the context of these questions, you find below.
1.) Can Polyester resin be worked with, inside a airconditioned space? Or is this a bad idea?
2.) Does humidity has an effect on polyester Resin?
Context. The average temperature is 96 degrees, with an average humidity of 81% On my first attempt, I tried to build a roof structure, and was advised by the seller of the resin, not to use a airconditioner. I took his advice, and found out I had only 4 min to work with.
The other side of the roof structure i did with Airconditioner, only running during laminating. And found out that I had only 6 min to work with. This was the moment I started to doubt the sellers advice. With your video, I wonder what would have happend, if I had brought down the temperature to 50 / 55 degrees with the airconditioner.
Please
This is very interesting and we miss your content. This is very helpful knowledgeable.
God’s blessings
Andy, you rock, dude.
Interesting overview of the critical variables involved with catalyzed materials. A program addressing the same factors for epoxy would be of interest.
Another trick from someone in georgia. Cool it before catalyzing as you said, and pour it into a flat tray, sometimes I use large Turkey trays. Then put the tray over an ice box. It pulls some of the heat out of the mixture so it does not kick until it is on the surface. It never gets cold but it keeps the heat from building. And yeah, I smoked a batch of epoxy last week because it was hot and I thought I could sneak a batch in. Hahaha
Down here in NW Florida, just put my jacket up last week. (Little bit of a joke there....). It is hotter than hell down here, love your new digs, and love your channel ! Good luck on everything. By the way swamp coolers work good even where it's humid.....
Excellent information. Very helpful. I'd love to see the epoxy comparison. ID also love to see an up close demonstration of technique and tips for rolling out, the way you explained things in this video. 😎
Hi Andy
Here in Australia we ad up to 5 percent
Corflex to the catalyst to make a modified sr catalyst, this way we still run at 2 percent catalyst ,
The epoxy test would be interesting
I would love to see an epoxy follow up, and would love to hear your thoughts on the differences between 2:1, 5:1, etc.
I’ve done the epoxy test inadvertently. WEST System 105 with the slow hardener. 75° day. The hardener was old, and normally took a few hours to kick. Working outside sitting on the deck in the sun. 2oz batches mixed and used one at a time. In 5 minutes it was thickening. In 10 it was putting off white smoke. Sun on a teak deck gets HOT!!!!
Thanks, this is a really good summary of the topic with really valuable suggestions. Yes, I was in a situation, when I had to throw a smoking pot of epoxy into the water previously :-)
One little request, could you mention or caption the metric equivalent of the measures you mention?
The directions for the poly I used has a temperature guide to use less MEKP for warmer temps. Worked fine.
I live in Tennessee temperature is 89 the heat index of 102 16 ounces of Epoxy resin set up in about nine minutes it’s hard to get your stringers done I wish I saw this before I started them going forward I will make smaller batches thanks for the tips as always a faithful follower
Also do you glass work before the sun is actually above 25 degrees above the horizon. Don't let the sun shine on your project either.
I am curious if there are any differences between the standard resins and the more costly fire resistant resins when it comes to curing times. I know the fire resistant matting and resins nearly double the material cost, which is why they aren't used in most applications. Fleming Yachts uses them for their fuel tanks which they custom make for each model.
Great experiment. I thought I was adding too much catalyst here in Florida. This poly goes off way faster than epoxy I’m use to
welcome back to work
Yes I’d be interested in seeing the epoxy
I’m in west central Florida and I’m building an epoxy, fiberglass and foam 14 boat. Summer temps are consistently 95f and humidity pushes it well over 100f. Been working on fillets this week and twice already I’ve had the resin start smoking on me and had to toss it out of the garage to avoid starting the house on fire.
Thank you very much.
I build boats here in central Queensland Australia with west system epoxy primarily, I feel your struggle. 😁
Hey all. I’m in the middle of watching all of the videos and LOVE them. I have a question… why not use some honeycomb board instead of Coosa? Does honeycomb weaken when cut?
Nice video interesting!
years ago i was encapsulating a new plywood deck with epoxy in preparation to fiberglassing it over, it was a hot august day, the epoxy was not west system and the job was almost finished around 6pm so when i mixed my last half-gallon i didn't measure it exactly right...... 10 minutes after i mixed it the paper bucket starting turning brown and burst into flames. tought me an important lesson, be very careful on a hot day when working with any catalyzed resin..
Great info - thanks. Is this also applicable to 1:1 epoxy resins? I'm especially interested to find a way to slow down a fast setting 1:1 casting resin in my hot garage lol. I'm supposed to get about 3-5 mins working time but I'm only getting 1-1.5 mins & it's really hard to work with that time!
Since you said I can't mess with the ratio does that only leave cooling the resin ahead of time?
Thanks!
I'm from Texas - 2% catalyst way too hot for for anything over 70F if you want play time, unless you put a bucket of ice under your catalyzed mix .
2.5% for 50--59F
2% for 60-70F
1% for 70-89F
0.6% for 90F+
add about 0.25% if resin is going to thickened with Fumed Silica / chopped strands fibers
add 0.25-0.5% if resin is going to be thinned with acetone / styrene
I have been using a tiny cooler with Ice in it for years. Just use a old metal coat hanger cut to fit wedges over the cup to keep it pushed to the bottom so it will not float and tip. Resins with water is just trash. And still here in the south we must use small batches. Also don't use in the direct air of a Air Conditioner. The moving air of a fan or AC will cause it to flash off prematurely.
I'd be interested in seeing the epoxy tests. It might be helpful to note depth of resin in the container (or smallest dimension of the volume?). I wonder how much time you might buy (if any) by keeping the container in an ice bucket once it's mixed.
Indeed
I live in a very hot place with high humidity. Slow to tropical hardener is the only way to go. Cooling the epoxy does help if you spread it out thin and cool it. I have to keep the sun off it too or it will cook it! It actually boils and leaves voids that must be ground out. Best thing is have everything in place before you mix the epoxy and Work smaller sections , it can start to setup quickly . I actually had to toss a batch overboard a few years ago, I used medium hardener on a very hot day, I mixed in milled glass after mixing the resin and hardener. It started to smoke and melt the container before the milled glass was mixed in well.
Had some hot days here. Got to do some little jobs putting up cabinets etc in the boat. My epoxy was wet, for like ages, then set up suddenly all together. So it was not gradually setting up for me, so I could judge it and use the tacky point to glue in the parts, so I had to use braces/clamps to hold everything in place while it set up/solidified (was a year old tub of West Systems 105/205 and using a dispensing pump).
[edit]
Ah, yours also takes longer too I see. I think I know what happened. Last year I was gluing up outside in the sun, so my epoxy was gelling up *much* quicker, in like less than 3 mins. Even in this heat though, working *inside* the boat, it's more like the 10-12 mins your getting in your workshop. :P
Full sun = much more heat transfer to the mixture/surfaces.
Interesting I am on the northern boarder of Illinois, not sure where you are but yes it still can be 90+ on a summer day. I am new and will have to try this. Is there a rule of thumb for how much resin per oz of chopped mat for mold making?
Do you prefer to work with epoxy or polyester resin for laying up new stringers and floor? I'm leaning toward polyester
Once you add the mekp to the resin, you could place the cup on a soft gel ice pack, maybe this will help reduce reaction times in very hot conditions Just a thought!! I could be completely wrong 😕
My son was helping with some fiberglass work and we ran out of the one tube of hardener and he grabbed my paint hardener and we continued to fiberglass, My question is will this hardener actually work, the areas are drying just taking a longer time, should i grind all that we did out and redo or since it has hardened will it be good? thanks in advance for reply.
Hello I have a 1989 procraft 1660v bass boat it is fiberglass and I have redone the floors, I had to make a wiring harness for the engine, etc I would always watch your vids for tips and how to info... but I was wondering how can I get access to the through hull fittings on the side. The only thing I can think of is cutting a hole in the deck area behind the seats, any help would be appreciated.
I just Finnished some delamination issues on my jet boat.temps just hit 90
There are also slower catalyst for polyester resins that can double your geltime, the low reactivity MEKP… i.e Butanox LPT from Akzo Nobel.
I have an off-topic question: If I had a drum (with a mixer inside) of polyester resin (obviously, no catalyst included), could I put a faucet at the bottom of the drum without the faucet going to crap given the flow of resin?
Would love to see the epoxy tests.
still hoping for a cold weather tips video!
Trying to paint with gelcoat it's nightmare at 90degrees , cool down 400ml and still gelled at 50% , used 1% by weight , is valume more accurate?
Would be handy if you could put the Temperature in Celsius on screen each time you reference a temp for us non US viewer.
@Dave : agreed from France ! But it's easy to open a tab in the browser and use the converter. Main issue is with ounces as I rather use either grams for a mass or cubic centimeters for volumes. At least, these Americans drive on the right side of the road ;-) This guy does a lot for the community (and an international audience) so we can accept a little extra work.
In India during rain season difficult to do the work...please give me suggestions about accelerator...hardner...ratio with respect to resin for fast cure
I would be interested in penetrating epoxy. Could you achieve better (deeper) penetration by working in cooler temperatures. My expectation would be deeper penetration due to slower setup time but the cooler temperature might also effect how deep the penetration gets equalizing the effect of the slower setting time
The Bondo Poly at Home Depot, 16oz in a cup, 60 degrees, 4 min max.
US Composits Layup resin, 30oz in a cup, 95 degrees, 20 min plus.
As a boat repair shop in North East Florida, and before that in South East Florida for 13 years, I've learned a few tricks on how to not have your resin kick off in just a few minutes. One, store your resin in the FF ridge for a bit prior to catalyzing, 2. Mix your container frequently (this is huge). 3 use a shallow container rather than skinny. ie. Use a 2 1/2 quart mixing container, rather then a pint or quart mixing cup. 3. Catalyze at 1%-1.5%. Also, the higher grade the resin, the faster it kicks. I find a General Purpose “boatyard” non consistent poly resin seems to last much longer. One things for sure, you can surely count on the resin kicking on you right when you just need a few more drops. Gelcoat on the other hand you need to be careful storing in fridge then bringing out to the warm ambient temperatures, because it can sweat, which will surely make your gelcoat have issues kicking. I have a refrigerated air dryer that cools the air for the purposes of getting the moisture out, and I find since installing that, when spraying gelcoat I get a bit longer working time.
About the air compressor, have a look a the last video from Casey Martin from winecountrywoodwork
everyone has his own tricks but those basics aply almost everywhere
one thing i would add that all ok and dandy if you work INSIDE where sun can't get you
working outside well you basically can regulate the speed of seting up the resin only by building tents or doing work at night/early in the morning or late just before sunset
UV light and heat from our big bulb on the sky can make any batch of resin gel in a minute even catalised under recomended amount
as for measuring stuff
here in the europe we have that easy trick called metric system
resin is sold by kilograms, catalist by cc and 2% of a 1000 grams is usually calculated to 20cc so going by a simple single use pharmacy siringe and small kitchen scale can get you by a big project without any measuring cups or extra stuff. and we talking building a fiberglass pool liner kind of big
and yes i am usually making a medium batch of resin and just pouring it all out on the glass mat to soak trough , and long handle mole fur rollet is my best friend to smear it all around
i also have a lot of leftover catalist so i guess i undercatalising resin, but even if it won't bind at firsy , sun will cure it the next day when i'm at work and i didn't seen much issues
thanks for the video
small question does extending life of a catalised resin with a bit of acetone make any sense? , i seen it comonly debated over if it comes to gelcoats, some say never use acetone, others swear by it
Cooling below dew point could cause condensation to form on resin.
Could be an issue with epoxy and result being more amine blush (which is easy to clean off). Not saying there would be no effects with poly, but have not heard it being an issue :-)
Andy could you cool and keep cool the whole can of resin? This would keep the fridge from smelling. Would it hurt the resin long term?
Long term as long as it doesn't freeze I don't think so but would likely need to let the temp come up closer to the 50F range before using :-)
i live in south florida and even epoxy with slow hardener sets or starts to get hot within a half hour😂😂
Is thingamajiger thingies a brand name or tech term?
It would be good to see an overdose of catalyst 🌡️💨♨️🔥💣🌋🙈🙉🙊🤔👍👍👍👍
yes to the epoxi test
Does the cureing temperature affect the strength of the cured resin?
As long as it is not too hot it is stable. It can form Tiny cracks if it cures to fast.
The longer it takes to cure, the more polymer bonds form... so, lower temps = longer curing time = more strength.
I would like to see the Epoxy test and time
Happened to me a few weeks ago
Living in south florida this is my everyday nightmare.
Central California... forecast is 112° by Thursday and my AC just broke. Can''t get it fixed until next month...
Oh man, that's not good! Window units avail??
@@boatworkstoday just bought the last 2 on the shelf. Won't help much in a 2,500 sq/ft house. 25k to replace AC unit and furnace, both 30 years old lol
Got a sun tan Andy?
Epoxy video would be appreciated.
You didn't discuss using less catalyser? As long as you use catalyser, it could potentially help slow things down, right? How about a demo going below 1%?
hi in Australia where 80 is a mild spring day i often used .75% catalyst and have never had it fail to setup
Work at night or store your stuff in the fridge
Seems to me, if you get 12 minutes work time for a 2oz batch vs. 10 minutes work time for an 8oz batch, you are not getting two extra minutes work time. Instead you are getting a total of 48 minutes of work time making four 2oz batches compared to the 10 minutes of work time for one 8oz batch. This means you are actually gaining 38 minutes of work time for the same amount of material. You only lose the amount of time it takes to mix the three extra batches.
Pooched
That's polyester resin,,,not "fiberglass resin" like the video title says.
The title says "Fiberglass Resins" i.e. the resins one uses with fiberglass.
Seriously? You need to find another channel if all you are about is bitching about titles. If you actually work with fiberglass and want information, this is the channel.
any resin used on glass makes fiberglass resin out of it and shown in the video are just two most comonly used for that
without glass it wouldn't be fiberglass resin even if the label sayed so