Test Spread Sheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XQ-GY-3xR_Zlp88WD5sbxgVc7twro4yGXrUHUIm1CRU/edit?usp=sharing Plane Iron test Spread Sheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BX7Reja0P8bI78Pe1DgVy-5D7WD8YuDzg_q4Z3qIlH8/edit?usp=sharing Paul sellers video: ruclips.net/video/GOlLVtz3RCI/видео.html
What convinced me was just someone pointing out that to adjust a plane laterally, you often will just tap the side with a hammer, which is exactly what you do when you put it down on the side
Part of my enjoyment of your channel is reading your shirts. It actually detracts from the video until I have made out what it says. As such, I did want to suggest that you start the show by first showing your shirt. This episode however was great at 3 minutes and 12 seconds, when your shirt folded in such a way as to hide the "r" in the word shirt. Great channel and thanks.
enough people asked for it so I started making a monthly Dad joke shirt. If you want to get in one the first one here is the link. www.woodbywright.com/shop
I like how you kept the metal tools so close the plane on the bench top as you dropped it. Every time coming so close to landing on them from this camera angle at least. I’m sure it had the die hards seeing red. you encouragible troll you!
Great set of data. I only had the one data point from setting on its side - sliced a whole chunk out of a knuckle. So for 40 years I’ve been a face down sort of guy and not been damaged since. Like others would love to see the data of lift up or not on the back stroke. Great work James.
Great info, as always, James! To nit pick a bit, the setting down was fairly carefully done, so the blade was never caught by the surface, as might happen with less careful people. (read: me). But even with that, it seems that the amount of wear that would happen wouldn't amount to much over the life of a sharpening.
I think worry about setting the plane sole down on clean wood surfaces is as silly as worrying about lateral adjustment displacement by laying it sideways. The problem is that putting a plane on its sole on a dirty surface is plausible, and could be modeled by setting it on sandpaper. Habits protect you from making certain mistakes, and you need to be more alert to protect from others. People like to divide up tasks differently.
It amazes me that so many people are willing to argue over something so trivial. I guess that's why YT is so popular. I guess I feel like they're my tools and I'll put them down how I choose.
My grandfather's generation were taught to put it on its sole. My father's generation were taught on its side. I follow my grandfather's advice because a plane on its side seems daft.
I'm surprised that you never refereed to your test as a Design of Experiment (DOE)... I'm a Quality Engineer and that is exactly what it is... Very good video!
Heh, my FIL saw my planes set in their cabinets and told me authoritatively that I shouldnt be setting my planes on their soles. I told him this was a myth and that many very knowledgeable craftsman have said as such, but he wasnt completely convinced. Nice to see some science applied to this argument.
Finally data! I've always been a blade down boy myself. When I want to make sure things stay extra sharp (even if it's negligible) is to set the plane down so it bridges the tool tray. Blade down, but with air beneath the blade.
My woodshop teacher said "side" therefore side... In my shop I say "sole" therefore sole! My shop my rules... James' shop James' rules! And James just proved he's wright!
I could watch a hundred videos from professional woodworkers about their opinions and experiences about this, but one proper video of actual testing data trumps it all. Thank you.
On the side of the argument to put it on it sole I have recently seen a video (cannot remember who did it) that brought a good argument that is not brought very often and make sense to me at least. Usually the iron on the plane is not set to an heavy cut and the bench has not been flattened right before you put your plane on it so they are good chances that the iron doesn't even touch the bench even if you put down the plane on its sole.
Awesome test James... 100% agree with putting it on its sole. I'd be curious to see what the effect of putting it on its side might have on inducing errors in the blade position laterally. I know that there are a lot of variables that could affect this one (weight of the iron/chipbreaker, tightness of the lever cap and so on...) - but it would still be fun to see! Might actually give even more support to the practice of setting planes down on the sole. Thanks again - I absolutely love your quest for empirical perfection!
Great test James. I've always put my planes, both metal and timber, sole down on the bench under the premise that my bench surface was softer than the plane iron. Also placing the plane on its side can knock the iron out of alignment, either accidentally hitting the lateral adjustment, or a shift of the iron when setting it on its side.
First, great info! If anyone wants to be safe and do no damage to the blade put a small scrap on the bench and put one end of the sole on it. Blade off bench and fingers and chances of foriegn object damage nil. Who doesnt have a small piece of scrap wood?
Well James I don’t give a rats a&& how anyone puts their plane down but it was worth watching the video just to look at your cool shirt . I hope this video goes viral for ya.
Going by the method you used to set the plane down and the heavy brass knob, normal placing the plane down would make 3 parts of bugger all difference to the edge.... BTW, it drives me bonkers when I see planes layed on thier side😂
Considered this results and the risk of hurting yourself... Yeah, that's a no brainer! Fantastic work, James! Thanks!!! 😃 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
A thought place one of your planes on its side on your busy bench, just leave it do your stuff around it and see if you hit it or knock it off the bench. Try not to be over conscientious of it and see.
Great stuff,is there any similar material relating to the optimal angle of the cutting iron to get the sharpest and the most durable edge,is the tradeoff between sharpness and durability based on unscientific tradition and could it be improved.I would suggest two irons sharpened at 25 and 30 degrees and then take a number of shavings on each before progressively applying a micro bevel in 1 degree increments doing the same number of shavings each time,in a relatively short time you would have data from 25 to 35 degrees,what is the best angle for hard wood versus soft timber? Keep it up James♡♡♡
I've done a couple tests on that in the past. I have a plain iron test where I ran a bunch of plane irons through the same test for durability and sharpen ability. But I also tested the angle. The trade-off is between durability and how quickly the plane engages on a flat surface. Surprisingly, there is no change in sharpness between a high angle and a low angle. After doing all the testing, I know sharpen all of my planes around 35 to 40°. The only benefit to a lower angle is it will engage ever so slightly faster into the wood if you're starting in the middle of the board. However, the higher angle is far more durable in the edge will last far longer.
I have been doing woodwork for over 60 years. In my first shop class in the 7th grade we were taught to put a plane down on its side. I still do it. I place it on its side with the blade away from me. I have never noticed any lateral adjustment problem, I have never lost a finger or part of a finger to the blade, and I cannot remember ever running a metal tool into the blade. This is an interesting study and I appreciate your time and effort. With my putting it on its side for over 60 years with no damage compared to placing it on its sole for 60 years, there is a significant difference. With that said, my true feelings are, I have never seen so much argument about anything so insignificant in my life. Sole or side, who really cares? I will continue to put my planes on their side only because a 60 year old habit is hard to break. If you want to put yours in its sole, I couldn't care less. You do great woodwork and that is much more important to me and I hope all of your listeners. I suppose I am ranting a bit, but seriously why did this argument ever come up? I did read a comment on a different channel where the man sets his on its sole on a very lightly oiled piece of carpet. I think that is absolutely the best reason I have ever heard for setting a plane on its sole. It saves a lot of time oiling the sole. I wish I could remember the man's name, I would gladly give him the credit for saying it. Probably no damage at all to the plane iron. Keep putting out the great videos. Thanks.
I put my planes down on the sole but when I put my planes away at the end of a job I retract the blade just a little, no idea if this achieves anything, but it is just a habit I got into.
I’ve never got into the argument, I set it on the sole. I don’t bother with people who argue that it’s incorrect, if there that dumb I don’t want them in my life anyway!
You are my personal hero, James. Thanks a ton for this test! I really appreciate the effort that went into busting this myth :) I have always been of the sole-setting conviction, but from this day on I will put my planes down with a little bit of extra pride.
Thanks for this, it just shows that my Dad and my school woodwork teacher new what they were talking about as they both scolded me for leaving the plane on its side. Love your channel.👍
Somewhat related to this is the old question of whether to lift the plane on a backstroke or just pull it back over the wood. I've heard Paul Sellers talk about how simply pulling back after a stroke actually burnishes the edge of the blade instead of dulling it. That would be interesting to see tested
Fireball Tools tested lifting vs backstroke on a file on metal and concluded that there is very little difference. I would suspect the same is true of plane on wood though it would be interesting to see. ruclips.net/video/xbykic--SKA/видео.html
Very good job and should satisfy anyone in doubt. I always set my plane iron down. It’s just to easy to cut yourself or nick the blade and then it’s time to sharpen it wasting more steel and time. Finally, a spread sheet I can make sense of. I’ve never been able to make sense of very complex SS. Tell me to make a very complex joint, piece of cake.
Since things of my work bench rarely stay in the same place for long I would think that part of your test would have been to set the plane down and them push it around a bit as in moving it to make room for something else. Other than that I find no error in your testing. BTW Rob Cosman advocates the sole down method too. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.
Hi yall my names is James Wright and welcome to woodbusters... Errr I mean my shop :) I love this episode!! Ooh and that sharpness tester, great device!! Do you have to replace the material/gel every time you do a new test?
Thanks. Yes, the filament is in a spool in the bottom of the tester and each test uses about an inch and a half of the filament. So far I've done somewhere around 6,000 tests on this one over all of the studies I've done on chisels and blades.
Nice. It confirms what I do. If the iron can dull setting it on a wooden bench top how will it maintain after using it on wood. Thanks for the confirmation I am doing it right!
@@WoodByWrightHowTo keep us posted if you can as things change please. I would love to see how that weight would interact with the wood planning. Cheers from Tasmania
I just have a 1/8' thick piece of scrap wood that I keep on the bench and got in the habit of setting the toe of the sole on the wood ( keeping the blade off the bench). Also, people who "talk with their hands" while holding an uncovered blade make me nervous.
Hello James. I started woodworking as a hobby when I was in junior high school. Now in my 70's, and I have always set the plane on its sole. The darn things were made to cut wood, so how is a wooden bench top doing anymore harm than a piece of oak or hickory that one is planning. Btw, my grandfather taught me to set it on it's sole. Good video, keep them coming.
On one occasion, I was carrying a plane from my workshop to another location, and parked it on the kitchen counter. In that case, it’s clearly best to lay it on its side. Otherwise, you risk damaging the countertop, or the blade, or both.
Really enjoyed this one, and glad to see some science confirming what I already believed! Another test I’d love to see would be comparing the 3 diamond plates + strop method of sharpening to using fancy million-grit waterstones and all the extra microbevels. My guess is that either the strop will serve as an equalizer, or the waterstones will give you a sharper edge initially that would quickly “dull” down to the same level as the diamond plates after a taking a few shavings.
I did that one a wile ago. they give you the same edge. they can both get to the same sharpness and dull out about the same speed. the water stones leave more of a polish on the blade, but that does not change the sharpness. just the look.
I agree with your conclusion that it's not worth worrying about how you set down a plane. But I think one of the arguments against setting it on its sole is that you might set it on some grit or on something else that would nick the blade. I don't think most people are worrying about the effect of just setting it on a clean piece of wood. So while this is an interesting test, I don't think it necessarily addresses the main argument.
Here's a test: does it matter if you lift the plane up during the back stroke? Good info this one. I'll no longer have that nagging feeling in my head when I sit the plane down flat.
Would setting the plane up for a thicker shaving, i.e. more blade protruding, have any effect? (Setting it up for a 3 or 4000th would also make for a better looking spreadsheet) :) Have a great day
I get more degradation from Arkansas humidity overnight than that! Lol, I set tools down not toss them like a toddler throwing a fit. Mostly because I got tired of chasing down that unoffending tool.
It won't bring anything to the argument because I guess it is lot less than 100 but now I'm interested in knowing an average on the number of time one put a plane down between sharpening
EXCELLENT! Thanks for "taking one for the Gipper" on this. I would suggest that there's good justification for "on the side" on a mixed use bench that is used for wood and metal working. Swarf embedded in the wood is more likely to ding the edge of a sharp blade. But for a full on wood only shop I think you neatly set this one to rest. I feel there's far more risk of damage to the operator as well as the edge for an exposed blade. Early on reading things like James Krenov and others in the 80's and 90's I leaned towards making a LOT of my non cutting tools from wood. This was fun as well as making for an "edge safer" work bench... I suppose. But mostly it's fun to use tools that I made... Of course there's one other option that will silence ALL of the protesters... A small stick of wood on the bench and set the planes down so they sit tilted and the edge is floating in air? Oh, I suppose some would start claiming that the body will bow over time from gravity.... :D..... When the side only protesters show up to tar and feather you as a heretic I'll be the one way in the back smiling and waving ! :D
That last option is what I've been doing lately. It's like using a knife rest on a fine dining table. It's nearly as faaancy as James W with his clean grit-free bench top.
I think the material you set the plane down on is also a factor. For a while I was using a low workbench and would set my plane down on the concrete deck I was at (as benchtop space was a premium since I also sat on it), so I would set it on its side so the cement wouldn't damage the edge. I never tested to see how much damage it would have done, but I can't imagine it would do as little as setting it down on wood.
Yeah if you have concrete or metal put it on its side or set down something to put the plane on. A lot of people make a small carpet bed that they can fill with oil and set the plane on that.
If one is still concerned, one could rest the sole on a popsicle stick or other thin scrap so that the edge of the iron is hanging rather than rested on. I was hoping you would also debunk the claim that resting a plane on its side messes up the lateral adjustment.
But can you see the damage under the microscope? xD and why not the test of dragging the blade backwards instead of lifting it up? As always good work. Cheers
I think I am going to do that one soon. I did shoot footage of it under the microscope, but could not see a change so did not think it was worth the time to talk about.
I usually put it sole down with the mouth/blade over the toolwell. I think Paul Sellers mentioned the risk of messing up the lateral adjustment of the blade if you set it down on the side.
My friend told me to put a small piece of wood under the heel when stroring planes flat on the sole to protect the iron. Guess, I won't be doing that anymore
I have always heard from people that the reason not to place it on its side is that you could knock your blade's lateral adjustment out of whack slightly, and over time could end up with a much thicker shaving on one side than the other, resulting in gouged workpieces, or at least unsquare.
Also what I've heard, but if you think about it .... aren't we always aware of the plane's behavior? I think we'd notice it being out of square fairly quickly.
Test Spread Sheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XQ-GY-3xR_Zlp88WD5sbxgVc7twro4yGXrUHUIm1CRU/edit?usp=sharing
Plane Iron test Spread Sheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BX7Reja0P8bI78Pe1DgVy-5D7WD8YuDzg_q4Z3qIlH8/edit?usp=sharing
Paul sellers video: ruclips.net/video/GOlLVtz3RCI/видео.html
What convinced me was just someone pointing out that to adjust a plane laterally, you often will just tap the side with a hammer, which is exactly what you do when you put it down on the side
I avoid conflict and put all of my planes upside down.
😂😂😂 well done!
the best response. and congrats on first!
Hahaha
42 is the answer. So long and thank you for all the fish!
Thank you for finally giving us the scientific answer.
Part of my enjoyment of your channel is reading your shirts. It actually detracts from the video until I have made out what it says. As such, I did want to suggest that you start the show by first showing your shirt. This episode however was great at 3 minutes and 12 seconds, when your shirt folded in such a way as to hide the "r" in the word shirt. Great channel and thanks.
enough people asked for it so I started making a monthly Dad joke shirt. If you want to get in one the first one here is the link. www.woodbywright.com/shop
I like how you kept the metal tools so close the plane on the bench top as you dropped it. Every time coming so close to landing on them from this camera angle at least. I’m sure it had the die hards seeing red.
you encouragible troll you!
Great set of data. I only had the one data point from setting on its side - sliced a whole chunk out of a knuckle. So for 40 years I’ve been a face down sort of guy and not been damaged since. Like others would love to see the data of lift up or not on the back stroke. Great work James.
I put mine down on a pile of files. I figure the files sharpen the iron when they touch. Steel sharpens steel!
Great info, as always, James! To nit pick a bit, the setting down was fairly carefully done, so the blade was never caught by the surface, as might happen with less careful people. (read: me). But even with that, it seems that the amount of wear that would happen wouldn't amount to much over the life of a sharpening.
Thanks James! That was definitely conclusive!
Thank you for the diligence, James! I like data too.
Lots of work to create the spreadsheet! Good proof of which procedure to use. Thank you.
I think worry about setting the plane sole down on clean wood surfaces is as silly as worrying about lateral adjustment displacement by laying it sideways.
The problem is that putting a plane on its sole on a dirty surface is plausible, and could be modeled by setting it on sandpaper.
Habits protect you from making certain mistakes, and you need to be more alert to protect from others. People like to divide up tasks differently.
Personally, I put my plane down in a tray of packing peanuts. BTW, I waited until my blade was 800 and I still can't drive screws with it.
🔥😂
"Planes with brass knobs on"? You have my attention!
possibly coming soon.
Sole down all the way! This was useful, thanks James!
Fantastic!
So,Paul Sellers was right again!Thanks for confirming it.
excellent work. thankyou
Chicken Soup for the Woodworker’s Sole!
Loving the 42!
HA!!!!! So happy you did this and validated my beliefs. So annoying getting those damn comments, will definitely be linking this handy video to them 😁
It amazes me that so many people are willing to argue over something so trivial. I guess that's why YT is so popular. I guess I feel like they're my tools and I'll put them down how I choose.
I agree, why so much argument over something so trivial.
@@BruceAllgire I suspect that Paul Sellers would know about such things...
Hmmm never ever thought that it wood (🤣) pass the test 🤔😉 thx a bunch for helping us all 👍🏼❤️🇨🇦
Thanks!
Thanks for the effort James
Thank you 👏 👏 👏
My grandfather's generation were taught to put it on its sole. My father's generation were taught on its side. I follow my grandfather's advice because a plane on its side seems daft.
I'm surprised that you never refereed to your test as a Design of Experiment (DOE)... I'm a Quality Engineer and that is exactly what it is... Very good video!
Thanks for the excellent tests. i so agree that plane down on its sole.
Safety first
Heh, my FIL saw my planes set in their cabinets and told me authoritatively that I shouldnt be setting my planes on their soles. I told him this was a myth and that many very knowledgeable craftsman have said as such, but he wasnt completely convinced. Nice to see some science applied to this argument.
And hey JUST thought of it but what about a test to see how far stropping brings ya n how much it'll repair!?
And do like that brass knob!
Finally data! I've always been a blade down boy myself. When I want to make sure things stay extra sharp (even if it's negligible) is to set the plane down so it bridges the tool tray. Blade down, but with air beneath the blade.
My woodshop teacher said "side" therefore side... In my shop I say "sole" therefore sole! My shop my rules... James' shop James' rules! And James just proved he's wright!
Did I just make a Dad joke 😂🤣?
Very cool James!
I could watch a hundred videos from professional woodworkers about their opinions and experiences about this, but one proper video of actual testing data trumps it all.
Thank you.
Even IF it were a shaving worth of wear PER set down... I would choose sole down over the possibility of shaving my hand.
I am a on its sole on the workbench and other clean wood surfaces and on its side on things with nails in them and the like
This (and a million other reasons) is why we love you James! Thank you for this logical approach!
i love the ink pen you have there
Lol I wonder why. It's one of my favorites.
I tend to put the plane down with a small piece of scrap under the heel.
On the side of the argument to put it on it sole I have recently seen a video (cannot remember who did it) that brought a good argument that is not brought very often and make sense to me at least. Usually the iron on the plane is not set to an heavy cut and the bench has not been flattened right before you put your plane on it so they are good chances that the iron doesn't even touch the bench even if you put down the plane on its sole.
Awesome test James... 100% agree with putting it on its sole. I'd be curious to see what the effect of putting it on its side might have on inducing errors in the blade position laterally. I know that there are a lot of variables that could affect this one (weight of the iron/chipbreaker, tightness of the lever cap and so on...) - but it would still be fun to see! Might actually give even more support to the practice of setting planes down on the sole. Thanks again - I absolutely love your quest for empirical perfection!
"Anything over 800 is a screwdriver." 😂
Great test James. I've always put my planes, both metal and timber, sole down on the bench under the premise that my bench surface was softer than the plane iron. Also placing the plane on its side can knock the iron out of alignment, either accidentally hitting the lateral adjustment, or a shift of the iron when setting it on its side.
I almost always set it on the sole. I've never noticed a difference and I don't accidentally cut myself.
First, great info! If anyone wants to be safe and do no damage to the blade put a small scrap on the bench and put one end of the sole on it. Blade off bench and fingers and chances of foriegn object damage nil. Who doesnt have a small piece of scrap wood?
I have small pieces of scrap and I try to keep them off my workbench too.
Well James I don’t give a rats a&& how anyone puts their plane down but it was worth watching the video just to look at your cool shirt . I hope this video goes viral for ya.
Going by the method you used to set the plane down and the heavy brass knob, normal placing the plane down would make 3 parts of bugger all difference to the edge.... BTW, it drives me bonkers when I see planes layed on thier side😂
I put mine on an off cut of carpet with oil dribbled on it, protects the blade and sole, and lubricants
The drawer I keep a lot of my planes in is carpet lined. No oil though.
Considered this results and the risk of hurting yourself... Yeah, that's a no brainer!
Fantastic work, James! Thanks!!! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Yea, running my knuckles over a sharp plane iron would be pretty annoying.
Time and time again, doing things productive, seems a better use of...time.
I love these science of woodworking videos! whatever the topic I love to have solid evidence to lean on. Much appreciated, thank you!
A thought place one of your planes on its side on your busy bench, just leave it do your stuff around it and see if you hit it or knock it off the bench. Try not to be over conscientious of it and see.
Thank you so much for this testing James..... I will be refering to this video in future. Your effort is respected Sir!!!
The results are pretty much what I expected them to be. Tell us more about this brass knob!
Some day. Not sure when they will come to market.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo And when that day comes, I will be there with money in hand and a grin!
Great stuff,is there any similar material relating to the optimal angle of the cutting iron to get the sharpest and the most durable edge,is the tradeoff between sharpness and durability based on unscientific tradition and could it be improved.I would suggest two irons sharpened at 25 and 30 degrees and then take a number of shavings on each before progressively applying a micro bevel in 1 degree increments doing the same number of shavings each time,in a relatively short time you would have data from 25 to 35 degrees,what is the best angle for hard wood versus soft timber? Keep it up James♡♡♡
I've done a couple tests on that in the past. I have a plain iron test where I ran a bunch of plane irons through the same test for durability and sharpen ability. But I also tested the angle. The trade-off is between durability and how quickly the plane engages on a flat surface. Surprisingly, there is no change in sharpness between a high angle and a low angle. After doing all the testing, I know sharpen all of my planes around 35 to 40°. The only benefit to a lower angle is it will engage ever so slightly faster into the wood if you're starting in the middle of the board. However, the higher angle is far more durable in the edge will last far longer.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo the main point is sharpness at any angle will be sufficient,thank you for your hard work,much appreciated❤️❤️❤️
Thank you, James! This was great and hopefully puts to rest this age old shop teacher’s tale
Thank you. Awesome and useful as always ! What about testing dragging vs lifting while planing?
I have been doing woodwork for over 60 years. In my first shop class in the 7th grade we were taught to put a plane down on its side. I still do it. I place it on its side with the blade away from me. I have never noticed any lateral adjustment problem, I have never lost a finger or part of a finger to the blade, and I cannot remember ever running a metal tool into the blade. This is an interesting study and I appreciate your time and effort. With my putting it on its side for over 60 years with no damage compared to placing it on its sole for 60 years, there is a significant difference. With that said, my true feelings are, I have never seen so much argument about anything so insignificant in my life. Sole or side, who really cares? I will continue to put my planes on their side only because a 60 year old habit is hard to break. If you want to put yours in its sole, I couldn't care less. You do great woodwork and that is much more important to me and I hope all of your listeners. I suppose I am ranting a bit, but seriously why did this argument ever come up? I did read a comment on a different channel where the man sets his on its sole on a very lightly oiled piece of carpet. I think that is absolutely the best reason I have ever heard for setting a plane on its sole. It saves a lot of time oiling the sole. I wish I could remember the man's name, I would gladly give him the credit for saying it. Probably no damage at all to the plane iron. Keep putting out the great videos. Thanks.
I put my planes down on the sole but when I put my planes away at the end of a job I retract the blade just a little, no idea if this achieves anything, but it is just a habit I got into.
I’ve never got into the argument, I set it on the sole. I don’t bother with people who argue that it’s incorrect, if there that dumb I don’t want them in my life anyway!
You are my personal hero, James. Thanks a ton for this test! I really appreciate the effort that went into busting this myth :) I have always been of the sole-setting conviction, but from this day on I will put my planes down with a little bit of extra pride.
Yeah Science!
Thanks for this, it just shows that my Dad and my school woodwork teacher new what they were talking about as they both scolded me for leaving the plane on its side. Love your channel.👍
So time for some sole music..
Somewhat related to this is the old question of whether to lift the plane on a backstroke or just pull it back over the wood. I've heard Paul Sellers talk about how simply pulling back after a stroke actually burnishes the edge of the blade instead of dulling it. That would be interesting to see tested
Fireball Tools tested lifting vs backstroke on a file on metal and concluded that there is very little difference. I would suspect the same is true of plane on wood though it would be interesting to see. ruclips.net/video/xbykic--SKA/видео.html
Very good job and should satisfy anyone in doubt. I always set my plane iron down. It’s just to easy to cut yourself or nick the blade and then it’s time to sharpen it wasting more steel and time.
Finally, a spread sheet I can make sense of. I’ve never been able to make sense of very complex SS. Tell me to make a very complex joint, piece of cake.
Since things of my work bench rarely stay in the same place for long I would think that part of your test would have been to set the plane down and them push it around a bit as in moving it to make room for something else. Other than that I find no error in your testing. BTW Rob Cosman advocates the sole down method too. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.
Hi yall my names is James Wright and welcome to woodbusters... Errr I mean my shop :)
I love this episode!!
Ooh and that sharpness tester, great device!! Do you have to replace the material/gel every time you do a new test?
Thanks. Yes, the filament is in a spool in the bottom of the tester and each test uses about an inch and a half of the filament. So far I've done somewhere around 6,000 tests on this one over all of the studies I've done on chisels and blades.
Nice. It confirms what I do. If the iron can dull setting it on a wooden bench top how will it maintain after using it on wood. Thanks for the confirmation I am doing it right!
Are James you have a Reed Plane’s brass knob, awesome. When will you be selling them, cheers from Tasmania. On Another note interesting video.
I'm not sure when they'll be coming to market. Jeff is still working with the foundry to get the casting.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo keep us posted if you can as things change please. I would love to see how that weight would interact with the wood planning. Cheers from Tasmania
I just have a 1/8' thick piece of scrap wood that I keep on the bench and got in the habit of setting the toe of the sole on the wood ( keeping the blade off the bench).
Also, people who "talk with their hands" while holding an uncovered blade make me nervous.
if I did not talk with my hands then this would be a silent film. LOL
Hello James. I started woodworking as a hobby when I was in junior high school. Now in my 70's, and I have always set the plane on its sole. The darn things were made to cut wood, so how is a wooden bench top doing anymore harm than a piece of oak or hickory that one is planning. Btw, my grandfather taught me to set it on it's sole. Good video, keep them coming.
On one occasion, I was carrying a plane from my workshop to another location, and parked it on the kitchen counter. In that case, it’s clearly best to lay it on its side. Otherwise, you risk damaging the countertop, or the blade, or both.
The other day I was pulling 18 gauge brads out of work and tossing them onto my bench. Setting planes down on their sides made sense to me then.
great work james! much appreciated!
Also easier on your wrist. Twisting a 7lb chunk of iron at the end of your arm is not ideal...
Let's see if the "woodshop teacher who has had enough of sharpening planes" theory was right...metal bench test!
Really enjoyed this one, and glad to see some science confirming what I already believed!
Another test I’d love to see would be comparing the 3 diamond plates + strop method of sharpening to using fancy million-grit waterstones and all the extra microbevels. My guess is that either the strop will serve as an equalizer, or the waterstones will give you a sharper edge initially that would quickly “dull” down to the same level as the diamond plates after a taking a few shavings.
I did that one a wile ago. they give you the same edge. they can both get to the same sharpness and dull out about the same speed. the water stones leave more of a polish on the blade, but that does not change the sharpness. just the look.
I agree with your conclusion that it's not worth worrying about how you set down a plane. But I think one of the arguments against setting it on its sole is that you might set it on some grit or on something else that would nick the blade. I don't think most people are worrying about the effect of just setting it on a clean piece of wood. So while this is an interesting test, I don't think it necessarily addresses the main argument.
Nice info! Is it still flat on it's side vs on the sole?
Yeah, I just did it...
Here's a test: does it matter if you lift the plane up during the back stroke?
Good info this one. I'll no longer have that nagging feeling in my head when I sit the plane down flat.
If you sit your plane down flat on a nail or a screw things may change.
Would setting the plane up for a thicker shaving, i.e. more blade protruding, have any effect? (Setting it up for a 3 or 4000th would also make for a better looking spreadsheet) :) Have a great day
I may have to add that test here soon. Just without the thousand sets lol That took forever
And I do appreciate your test you've done
I get more degradation from Arkansas humidity overnight than that! Lol, I set tools down not toss them like a toddler throwing a fit. Mostly because I got tired of chasing down that unoffending tool.
And then there is rex Krueger's solution. Use a Chinese style plane that will stand on its end.
Try this with a Stanley iron!
I actually did that today as the supporters asked me to do that. almost the exact same results.
It won't bring anything to the argument because I guess it is lot less than 100 but now I'm interested in knowing an average on the number of time one put a plane down between sharpening
I have to hand it to Paul he came to the same conclusion in a lot less time and with no fancy tests. 🤣
EXCELLENT! Thanks for "taking one for the Gipper" on this. I would suggest that there's good justification for "on the side" on a mixed use bench that is used for wood and metal working. Swarf embedded in the wood is more likely to ding the edge of a sharp blade. But for a full on wood only shop I think you neatly set this one to rest. I feel there's far more risk of damage to the operator as well as the edge for an exposed blade.
Early on reading things like James Krenov and others in the 80's and 90's I leaned towards making a LOT of my non cutting tools from wood. This was fun as well as making for an "edge safer" work bench... I suppose. But mostly it's fun to use tools that I made...
Of course there's one other option that will silence ALL of the protesters... A small stick of wood on the bench and set the planes down so they sit tilted and the edge is floating in air? Oh, I suppose some would start claiming that the body will bow over time from gravity.... :D..... When the side only protesters show up to tar and feather you as a heretic I'll be the one way in the back smiling and waving ! :D
That last option is what I've been doing lately. It's like using a knife rest on a fine dining table. It's nearly as faaancy as James W with his clean grit-free bench top.
I think the material you set the plane down on is also a factor. For a while I was using a low workbench and would set my plane down on the concrete deck I was at (as benchtop space was a premium since I also sat on it), so I would set it on its side so the cement wouldn't damage the edge. I never tested to see how much damage it would have done, but I can't imagine it would do as little as setting it down on wood.
Yeah if you have concrete or metal put it on its side or set down something to put the plane on. A lot of people make a small carpet bed that they can fill with oil and set the plane on that.
If one is still concerned, one could rest the sole on a popsicle stick or other thin scrap so that the edge of the iron is hanging rather than rested on.
I was hoping you would also debunk the claim that resting a plane on its side messes up the lateral adjustment.
Maybe next time.
I tried putting it on the side, but I can’t get any shavings like that. Took me a month to straighten out one board.
But can you see the damage under the microscope? xD and why not the test of dragging the blade backwards instead of lifting it up? As always good work. Cheers
I think I am going to do that one soon. I did shoot footage of it under the microscope, but could not see a change so did not think it was worth the time to talk about.
I usually put it sole down with the mouth/blade over the toolwell. I think Paul Sellers mentioned the risk of messing up the lateral adjustment of the blade if you set it down on the side.
To me it’s very simple. Paul Sellers puts the plane down on its sole.
My friend told me to put a small piece of wood under the heel when stroring planes flat on the sole to protect the iron. Guess, I won't be doing that anymore
Rust would be the real reason to have the sole elevated as moisture in the timber can quickly effect cast iron and the cutting edge.
I have always heard from people that the reason not to place it on its side is that you could knock your blade's lateral adjustment out of whack slightly, and over time could end up with a much thicker shaving on one side than the other, resulting in gouged workpieces, or at least unsquare.
Also what I've heard, but if you think about it .... aren't we always aware of the plane's behavior? I think we'd notice it being out of square fairly quickly.
That's not going to happen here. I keep some tension on the lever caps of my planes.
You could add different benches. I bet on my pine bench it would have even less effect compared to yours