Truly Ergonomic Keyboard review (Outemu PG816 snap spring optoelectric)
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- Опубликовано: 31 дек 2021
- Skip to 13:42 for a typing demonstration.
Today we look at the Truly Ergonomic Cleave, a kind of "ergo keyboard light", so to speak. It comes with some very interesting optoelectric switches by Outemu, employing a type of snap action. Hope you enjoy the video, and happy new year! :)
Intro by Kyle Carter
Outro by Facundo Cabanne
My keyboard reviews: bit.ly/1TbOtft
My switch teardowns: bit.ly/2C1QGHz
My TOP X videos: bit.ly/2FmpZfd
My XL typing demos: bit.ly/2OoAW3w
My tutorials and featurettes: bit.ly/2OrkLUh
My unboxing videos: bit.ly/2TSrr0m
I'm Thomas and I do videos and reviews on mechanical keyboards ranging from the most sickening modern RGB gaming keyboards to vintage hardware relics, or sometimes keycaps or keyswitches ranging from Cherry MX to Alps SKCM to IBM buckling springs and anything in between.
Follow me on Twitter for updates on my keyboard videos! / chyrosran22
The practice sentence was: "Hello my name is Thomas and I'm typing on a TE Cleave ergonomic keyboard right now. This is one of the most mixed-feelings keyboards I've ever featured on this channel." 
Наука
![Sean Rii, Karyon, Sharzkii - Taungule [My Love] (Official Music Video)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eJoMuypbSzQ/mqdefault.jpg)
"Ergo people are weird. So anyway, Ctrl is the jump button"
It's the one true path, bro! Ctrl is jump, it's a fact of life! :p
@@Chyrosran22 jump is mouse 3 lunatic
Ctrl was always my jump key for DOS side scrollers like Commander Keen and Duke Nukem
For the last time-- CTRL crouches; Spacebar jumps! 💢
@@nnthayer Exactly! See, old-school gamers get it :D .
This is a pretty ingenious move for Truly Ergonomic. Specifically requesting Thomas not to swear can help create an illusion that it’s better than any other ergo board.
Trust me, if I wanted to swear, I'd do it :p . Ain't nobody who tells me how to speak!
I think they were a bit naive with that request
@@Chyrosran22 ya swear on it? :p
As someone who bought the earlier version, I am surprised they're still managing to stay in business.
If you've seen the unboxing video you'd know he doesnt give a damm
We thank Thomas for taking the time to review our keyboard, we enjoy his reviews, we even enjoy his connotations, we liked he used the right hand for Y and H correctly - even if for a few seconds, and we know that if he take 2-3 weeks he could have gotten accustomed to the better layout of the Cleave keyboard.
We will provide future keyboards for future reviews.
@Truly Ergonomic --- One thing I noticed he didn't mention, but seemed very obvious to me, I would like to ask if I'm correct about. It looks to me like the shift key, the enter key, the space bars, and perhaps also the arrow keys and the similar directional grouping on the left side, we're all intended to make use of the versatility of the human thumb. This seems to me much more intelligent than having to use the pinky finger for the shift key and Enter key, or necessarily completely reposition your hand in order to use the arrow keys.
@@DonaldKronos the ironic thing is that it's right thumb I have problems with, I usually use my right index to hit the spacebar, so there's that.
I guess this layout would let me do the same with enter, and the other index could hit shift instead of the pinky? I'll give Truly this much, it's not completely bonkers at least.
@@DFX2KX it’s somewhat close to a vertical-stagger Alice board, so yeah, not really all that bonkers.
He will never like any ergonomic layout thats for sure. But he might still like all the other aspects of your keyboards lol
The sound of those keys, it’s nice
actually that enter for right thumb is best idea ever. For people who programming or writting a lot is huge timesaver and avoid lot of typos because wrong return of right hand to desired position.
Ergo weirdo here: my Ergodox EZ has the left thumb cluster as Space - Backspace - Home/End, and the right cluster as Page Up/Page Down, Delete, Enter. Those eight keys you use every single minute of using a keyboard? Yup. Right there without thinking about it.
@@Kvantum I am also very fond of this layout on my redox keyboard.
"They asked me not to use any swear words."
*_Thomas: proceeds to swear_*
I don't want to come across as petty, but I really don't take well to censorship :p .
RUclips captions be like:
things like [_][_] piss crap [_] horse [_][_][_][_][_]
@@ej_tech yes
Based
Actually a very good idea overall. Very good set of keys for developers. Having dedicated shift-tab and putting delete and backspace next to eachother is great.
Also actual great switches on something ergo and fairly minimalistic ergo design.
Switched from a Microsoft Sculpt to this keyboard about 8 months ago. I am a programmer and this checks all the boxes for me. Wired, backlit, split ergo, mechanical, programmable keys. GREAT keyboard.
Are you still using this keyboard today? Thoughts?
An ergo keyboard without a waning? Impossible.
Yeah. I was expecting a WANING but somehow it's not there though
It's because swearing at the keyboard got banned, as it is a commercial request for such. But if he could swear, I bet my nickels it would have a WANING
It's because this video is just an ad.
I like how you craftily dealt with the “no cursing” clause.
Always delightful to watch another humorous keyboard review from The Keyboard Oracle. ;)
God, that moment right at 10:34 just screams, "We here in the gun community desperately need to bring Chyros in to the fold and have him tear apart the thousands of different, good, bad, incredible, terrible, and down right HIDEOUS triggers that exist."
Honestly, if I'd been born in Imperial Land, I probably would've had a gun channel instead xD .
@@Chyrosran22 If you ever move or relocate or just simply decide to take a skip across to see how your fingers feel; I'd make sure you swear your arse off with some of the worst, most jarring, most disappointing triggers imaginable. God it'd be amazing.
Pretty sure he'd rate anything double-action only as reading braile through garden gloves.
@@somecoder3054 he would probably have nothing but disdain for any articulated striker-fired trigger, oh my God. First thing I would want him to review would be a mosin nagant's 13 lb trigger.
Not the rifle, the revolver.
So many board reviews recently. I love it
I am surprised you had so many forbidden words in your holster. 😂
Plenty more where that came from, mate :p .
@@Chyrosran22 i might teach you some vietnamese swear words if you want to
@@xxmutegodxx Bring it on! Always looking for more swear sentences in more languages! :D
@@Chyrosran22 i need to make a twitter account first
I actually developed painful carpal tunnel syndrome on a regular keyboard at work many years ago. It was a desk job with lots of typing.
I then got the Microsoft ergonomic keyboard and it really helped solve the issue. I now have the bit more sleek looking MS Surface version and use it in a Mac. It works great even with gaming
I was feeling sh*tty when I saw your video. Your vibe is an instant mood lifter. Thank you for bringing sun on an otherwise dreary New Years Day !
I've actually always liked column stagger on a board, it's been quite nice on the few I've tried out
Ergonomic keyboards can actually be very useful if you want to split your typing speed in half
I really like that you have a fast, yet human typing speed. None of this 120 wpm nonsense. I peaked at 99 wpm, but average more like 60-80 because I can’t be arsed to get faster.
"It supports macros without software. Fuck yeah!" I wasn't prepared for the burst of enthusiasm but it was very nice to hear nonetheless.
Happy New Year from North Germany 🙂
Speaking of otholinear kb, you should review the dactyl manuform, it has a similar layout to the kenesis advantage. They’re great.
They're also both key well 3D layouts, not ortholinear. Like the Maltron one-handed keyboard he absolutely hated.
Those switches actually sound pretty noice. Bet in a more substantial case with thicker keycaps they'd sound downright good.
I loved the singing part (it was spot on!)
One reason I see for ortho is the F-B distance (both typed with left indicator), which his too wide in staggered keyboards.
looks truly amazing
Speaking of ortho boards, I recently swapped from a fairly decent rubber dome board (NMB something or other) to a DIY ortholinear board with proper tactile switches, idk how but after maybe a day or two I figured out that I type faster on it than I ever did on a staggered layout... On the old board I averaged a pretty consistent 45-50 wpm with a lot of mistakes from hitting keys off center or missing entirely (this despite me writing stories in my spare time), on the ortho board I'm pretty consistently hitting 65 to just about 70 wpm with lucky bursts of speed up into the low 90s... Weirded the heck out of me, but it was a welcome surprise, and now I feel inclined to make more ortho boards or build a diy laptop with one in it.
I'm already using right thumb on numpad enter, because mouse. That feels very satisfying. I imagine this one is similar. Non-butchered F keys? Great. Backtab could see a lot of use in some proprietary software (like banking). Ctrl "in place of Caps" actually predates modern layout. I think Emacs people love it. Overall quite interesting keyboard.
mfw proprietary software🤮 but the ctrl in place of caps lock actually helps me out a lot
Can confirm your switch removal method; it's the only reliable way I've found to deal with tight plates.
12:13 How did he not laugh? 😂
Legit subbed because you respected their desires by not swering
What I've heard re: ortholinear is that it's for particular RSI. If you're making an ergo keyboard having an Ortho layout like this doesn't make it especially hard to pick up as you found but will be good for those people that do need it. In a niche like that I'd imagine hitting as many RSI as you can is beneficial to making sure you sell enough units.
Happy New Year Tom!
You, over chromecast, coming through the office audio rig: ASMR personified. A voice like the smoothest smoked salmon this side of Norway 😎
Hehehe just add a Barry White bass track accompaniment...
I like how you marked words which will not be used :) better to know exact which ones XD
Really nice to see that we are no longer limited to that annoying click jacket for the clicker.
Agreed. Death to click jackets!
would love to see you review the dygma raise something. as someone with rsi problems its really great. i use nordic iso layout + the tenting kit and im loving it
I’m pretty sure the ergo crowd actually prefers vertical stagger if keys can’t be placed in a dished board like a Kinesis or Dactyl, since your fingers don’t all line up flat.
It’s diagonal stagger that gets criticized, since it forces you to twist your wrists awkwardly if you’re a touch typist.
Doesn’t make a big difference for hunt-and-peck typists, though.
I haven’t watched yet but was expecting a Swear Waning when I saw the thumbnail, so when I watch later I assume it’s safe to listen out loud.
@Chryosran22 --- I'm curious. Did you try using your thumbs for the shift and enter keys, and the space bars? I haven't had a chance to try that keyboard and I've never seen it before, but it does look to me like that would be much easier than having to use your pinky fingers for those keys like on a regular keyboard. Especially if using a touch typing method or something similar, which it seems to me you did mention you sort of avoid, but which many people do make use of.
I am a home-row touch-typist, and EVERY standard keyboard is now an ergonomic keyboard to me, after re-training my left hand to type all the rows sloping inward instead of outward. For example- my left index finger now types row TFC instead of RFV, middle finger now types RDX and so on, which mirrors the right hand rows' usual UJM, IKcomma, OLperiod, etc. The strokes are much more simple now, mostly forward and backward motions (as the right hand has always done) with fewer side strokes. So right and left have a balance I've never felt before.
Yes! Exactly! I cannot fathom why the orthodox touch-typing pattern has the left hand finger pattern sloping outward from bottom to top. This seems so obviously to work against the natural motion of the fingers and angle of the hands. I once tried to train my hands to touch type by laser cutting a "stencil" to put over the keyboard to channel each of my fingers to "stay in their lanes". The left hand channels were so impossible to deal with I felt confident in concluding that this was not a system I ever wanted to adopt.
So you now enter both E and S with your left ring finger? That's some double whammy... While I applaud your approach to re-assigning the keys to different fingers, I think you need to look beyond QWERTY to make it work in a sensible way.
I'm just looking for a keyboard. Not a huge keyboard enthusiast or collector. But you had me at 0:19, so I'm subscribing.
tbh after about 3 months now using a split ergo keyboard i gotta say ortho is nice as hell, not because its more ergonomic or anything but its easier for me to memorize the distance between each key type without looking than on a normal keyboard
Hoping to see a review of the CharaChorder soon!
Their previous model is less weird in the middle, and after some time I found the layout to be really nice. The CTRL and Shift keys are better placed, ideal if you are using them a lot (not gaming). The Cleave is fine but required more time to adjust.
Have you heard of the kailh box opticals? I use them and they seem to be the best clicky optical out there
holy shit, considering how much I program, how did I not know about shift+tab...
Do you know about ctrl+arrow, and Ctrl+Shift+arrow keys?
Ctrl+home/end?
I ordered a cheap eyoosu board from amazon that has these snapspring switches but of the non-optical variant. Hopefully I like them enough to harvest them and give them a good home on a keyboard kit
When you were describing the controls that you were having trouble with in games, I couldn't help but wonder what games you play. What is your main rotation for gaming?
I play a lot of games so I rotate a lot. At the moment I'm playing Diablo 2 R, Tarkov, Ace Attorney, and Ready or Not, but I play lots of others on the side as well.
Is there a name or model number for the non-opto clappy hands clicky Outemus?
more ergo review pls
When he gave the weight in Imperial I didn't hear if he said it was one half banjo or three quarters banjo.
Dear Mr Swearworddude, my approach to this topic of ergo keyboards would be using vr motion controllers (with or without a headset). The only thing necessary would be to track every finger individually i would suggest the valve index. What do you think about this? Are there any good approaches with vr you know of? Ive seen nothing good till now except for eye tracking or something which is linked to your visual cortex but works slow.
Ps: I dont want a chip in my brain because elon musk shouldnt know what hentais i like.
4:24 what games are you playing that have jump binded to control
Those modifiers at the bottom left and bottom right corners look like they'd be best actuated with the side of the hand below the pinky. That's how I'd do it anyways, but having two keys there seems awkward
Wow, that was civil :)
hey thomas , ever thought of reviewing the unicomp pc122 .(the unicomp battlecruiser) . there arent many reviews that compare it to any other ibm keyboards . anyways , happy new year
Cheers mate, I don't have a Unicomp 122 atm unfortunately.
@@Chyrosran22 you better buy the black version when you get it, it looks sick
@@patr1ck28 I no longer spend money on keyboards.
What is that smaller keyboard you use for comparison @ 11:05?
I like how it has mostly normally sized keycaps, unlike the X-Bows Knight.
2:54 Oh, no. Don't you dare reach your left index finger over there. You savage!
3:55 YAY! It's like a new year resolution!
That Alabama song part killed me 🤣
I've never used a full ortholinear keyboard, apart from the cursor and numpad keys on a regular full keyboard. I bet if someone produced a stand alone staggered layout numpad, you'd be swearing at that! Not having to move your fingers as much diagonally when moving up or down a row does seem to make more sense though. It's a pity nobody seems to have conducted a twins study to find out which is better. They could do the same for other keyboard layouts too, to put the issue to rest.
I like the sound of those switches. If you had to rate them on a scale of ten for sound and feel, where your beloved SKCM blues were ten for both, where would these rate?
Happy New Year.
Have you got zealpc's new clicky switches ?
Back in the day I had a Microsoft spilt keyboard and quite often nearly broke my index finger when doing an "illegal" H or other key hitting the middle 🤣, where on that thing the three LEDs were doing their led thing, which is nothing because num lock is for accountants.
I feel like the typical keyboard is pretty ergonomic for me at this point since my hands literally grew around the fact that I've used one almost every single day for 30 years.
Thomas has an absolutely legendary use of the English Language, specifically regarding swears. I could hear you swear for hours straight..... maybe make a Vinyl full of swears? Id buy.
I think one of the main reasons why I subscribe to you is because of the entertaining way that you swear about things.. I think, I could get used to the shift and in Enter key being down next to my thumbs.. Maybe..
I'm happy
wait since when do you jump in games with ctrl?
Communist!
What is the small keyboard you used in 11:03???
Just wondering, how can you compare these switches to Box clicky's click bar mechanism? I'm always curious about the clapper mechanism from this.
I made a Teardown video about these switches where I show in detail how they work.
@@Chyrosran22 Do it again I wasn't looking :p
Hello fellow furry keyboard enjoyer and Chyrosran22 watcher.
@@SonicBoone56 Oh hey there
I would like to see him do the Planet Computers Gemini or Cosmo Communicator keyboard or Pine64's Pinephone Keyboard
Can confirm: learned to touch type, got RSI 6 months later. Still suffering a year on.
That voice is smooth
I’d have to actually try it, but this thing looks amazing for coding.
-that little page up/down block thing on the left
-the tab in and out
-the backspace and delete
-the switches
… few other things..
Seems like it would be really cool to have those features in the layout they chose.
I would just switch the spaces and the enter/shift.
Again it might be awful, but in theory it looks like coding would be fun on it.
Ergodox/Redox has all advantages (excluding optoelectric switches) and is programmable (via QMK). I use redox keyboard for programming with box whites and it works perfectly. It even places () {} [] under convenient keys under a layer.
@@sir0herrbatka that sounds awesome!
Why the hell would you use "Ctrl" for jumping while gaming settings??
Jumping with the CTRL key? Roger me with a wooden spoon while singing "What shall we do with a drunken sailor"
"...But things like jumping, which is of course _the control button_ "
I've never ever played a game where jump was control, and even if I did I'd do a backflip with how awkward it is to access before remapping it to spacebar; you know, the key your idle thumb can press instead of twisting the pinkie into itself while trying to keep the other fingers on wasd for mobility? I tried doing that just now and my ring finger got shitty with me haha. I get that everyone gets comfortable with defaults on what they prefer playing/grew up playing, so not trying to shame or anything. I just couldn't help feeling that your criticism was a, uh...heh, it was a bit of a _stretch_ lolololol
Despite preferring a "unfuckedwith" layout, I'm thankful for you electing to review this. I appreciate how fair you were because this thing looks pretty incredible with the layout and choice to use what looks like standard sized keycaps. Granted, you'd be getting a LOT of the longer keycaps but wacky boards like this are so rare with having that option to replace the stock ones. Would you be willing to verify if that's actually possible given sizing and stabalizer spacing?
11:02 what’s the name of the smaller keyboard with box whites?
Keyboardio Atreus.
ZEAL WANING: I don't really care either way in ortholinear vs. standard staggered layouts - I use both. The real benefit for me in the ergo world was switching to Colemak. It made real world difference in relieving my RSI, which was getting very severe in my left hand. Switched to Colemak almost 10 years ago, and the RSI is gone. END ZEAL WANING
4:28 Everyone knows that jumping is the space bar and that CTRL is crouch.
Lies! Communist propaganda! Heretical slander!
@@Chyrosran22 Haven't you heard? Communist propaganda is all the rage at the moment!
Just wait until he hears about Minecraft's default keybinds.
@@s01itarygaming _"bunch of Scandinavian weirdos who like to assemble themselves their furniture..."_
Spacebar is for opening doors. Jumping? What's jumping? We're not Super Mario here...
This ergonomic keyboard that is ergonomic is truly ergonomic
Personally I find it much easier to hit the keys on an ortholinear keyboard than a normal keyboard while typing fast.
I have no idea how I would even be able to type without looking without the keyboard stagger. The feel of the edge of the key gives so much information that it's pretty much entirely how I tell where my fingers are on the keyboard. Then again, I a.) don't touch type, and b.) have absolute dogwater typing accuracy, so I am doing a lot of things wrong
@@Vooman How does the stagger help you?
Looks like a nice board for programming. That "backup" ctrl key is the original place to put it, which you should know because you own a dozen ibm boards.
I do, but I should point out that the Ctrl key is much older than the Model F, around two decades or so.
It dated so far back? I mapped my keyboard to switch the two because it looks much more reasonable, but always thought it started with Happy Hacking Keyboard (that's where I saw it at least). It feels so good I don't want to go back
@@SuperSohaizai The source of some unix/linux weirdness is because terminal emulators and basic programs still use key bindings for the dec vt terminals. We just don't have the same layout as the vt100 on modern boards.
@@SuperSohaizai I know Teletypes had it there as far back as the 60s.
What's the keyboard at 11:14?
I love ergonomic keyboards, but there’s no sense trying to hustle them onto people who aren’t drawn to them. You shouldn’t even consider switching to them unless typing on standard keyboards is causing you problems that less drastic changes fail to alleviate.
If you ARE interested in ergonomic boards, I recommend you start with something comparatively inexpensive like the Planck from Drop/OLKB, or Keebio’s Nyquist/Levinson or (my own favorite) the Iris. You can get up and running with those for as little as $120-150.
I only use a normal keyboard but my hands are already in ergonomic position because I type with 7 fingers (pinky is only for ctrl & shift, and use ring for pinky position.) so I don't really find any ergonomic benefits from truly ergo keyboards. It really depends on person by person, in my opinion.
CTRL to jump? What dimension are we living?
What boggles my mind is that the position of all the non alphanumeric keys has been completly change from their first Truly Ergonomic keyboard which I own and have no problem using (although I'm not using it at the moment, it's sitting in a drawer) so was the first one not truly ergonomic and this one is? Can I get a refund on my first keyboard seeing as presumably, if this keyboard is any indication, it has a lot of design flaws?
Did you just say you jump with Control??? I have never heard of this. No judgement, just caught me off guard
11:07 what is that keeb i would love to build one.
Keyboardio Atreus
When a company has a strict sets of review rules that means the product is bad thus require marketing. I've seen Thomas reviewed Mistel board and it came much better that I still consider buying it when I have some budget to spend on despite that video is more like negative than positive.
How did you know that I was looking into ergo keyboards?
jumping is... control? in what?
1:02 There's something about the way this company presents itself which I find uniquely unsettling, which is why I've never bought their products. I'm hoping to hear you touch upon this in your review.
13:40 guess not
I only use ortholinear because i like it, i think it looks cool and feels nice on my fingers. I dont think its better for typing tho
WHY DO YOU HAVE JUMPING BOUND TO CTRL
As someone who wasted the first lockdown learning to touch type by switching fully over to DVORAK (forcing myself to touch type as I couldn't find the keys any other way). Having now switched back to QWERTY (I forgot how I used to type so just picked up touch typing on it), I can say that it really doesn't make it feel more comfortable other than on the right pinkie. This just makes ergo keyboards seem like a huge waste of time to learn.
P.s: Love the intro lmao.
Dvorak is, indeed, a waste of time, but I won't push better layouts because it doesn't really help unless there's a specific reason you're switching. I feel like ergo keyboards can also be a waste of time unless you have an RSI, can prevent an RSI, or are just really into it.
I love ergo keebs but the amount of people in the community who try to push a giant learning curve on others without reason is crazy
Wait, who the heck jumps with Control? Spacebar man, spacebar.
I have an old keyboard (bought at Walmart a lifetime ago) that has dedicated copy/cut/paste buttons on it. I loved that keyboard because of that, and kept using it long past the point of it's retirement (it was a pretty "meh" keyboard other than those buttons).
I don't mind normal fixed split ergonomic keyboards without a number pad, but this is just a big no for me with that center cluster layout.
I am sorry, did you just say you use Ctrl for jumping?
I haven't watched the video yet, but I'm fully expecting this to be described as "a molested accordion" or something like that, irrespective of whether or not it's any good.
disclaimer: not into ergo or ortho.
the reason ortho *can* be more ergonomic, is because it lets you use columnar stagger instead of row stagger (so technically that ends up not being technically ortho, but thats what this keyboard is). the idea being that columnar stagger more naturally suits the fact that your fingers have different lengths. idk how much that *helps*, but thats the idea. i think. theres probably other stuff too tho like i said, not super into ergo
I think the other part is just that it minimizes how far left and right your fingers have to move when typing on the top and bottom row.