Dumat {Lore - Spoilers All}
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- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2024
- Welcome, welcome! Are you tired of the silence? Curious about the First Blight? Perhaps you just want me to finish this damn series already? Then come and listen to what is known~
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This video does contain major story spoilers for the Dragon Age games and other related media.
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There is also the sentinel armor set in dragon age awakening, it is said to have belonged to the warden who killed dumat, so dumat was killed by a warden in history at least. It's interesting cause it doesnt look like other gray warden gear at all. How the hell it ended up in ferelden I have no idea.
Oh my god I’ve used that armor so many times and I completely forget it’s tied to Dumat and the warden that supposedly killed him. FUCK. Thanks ;u;
And another update as I’m pinning this comment, on the video I mention that I couldn’t find a source for the verses of Dumat- Constance on discord was able to find that it’s from Paying the Ferryman, the Calpernia short story!
It makes sense that it doesn't look like other Grey Warden armours given that it was from the First Blight prior to the Wardens being successful or popular back when they would of been a new order way less organized and defined...They really shouldn't of had specialized armour back then only what anyone else would have. Which given this was back when the Imperium ruled and the Grey Wardens were founded on Imperial land by Ex-Imperial Soldiers it's pretty clear it should be of Tevinter design, Which it is given it looks very similar to the Juggernaut set. As for being in Ferelden it wasn't we found the first piece in the possession of a Darkspawn and the rest of the pieces by mucking around in the Fade and transporting them into the Material world...So they were in the Fade making it even weirder where we got em.
@@GhilDirthalen
Have a look at this video about the old gods
ruclips.net/video/xwEAcXZCkOo/видео.html
thats due to them being a mixed group at that point they had just been formed to fight the blight and thus were not the faction we know today as the intro to origins says they were warriors mages and kings that gave up everything to defend the world they had not yet became the true grey wardens we know today its also implied that they were kicked out of their own nations armies for doing this thus no armor they used belonged to a set faction it was not until later they started recuiting others including smiths into the wardens and developed the now legendry armor they are know for
"The conductor of silence" sure does talk a lot
Every time I see the name Dumat I think of it in Jordan's Corypheus voice.
"Dumat, help me please! I have fallen and I can not get up Dumat!!"
Still the greatest piece of Dragon Age content on youtube. I laughed so hard, I myself fell off the chair.
@@isultansultangaliev5852 where is it?
@@MFenix206its found in the split the veil ep 43. The voices of bioware Video
Further the Andraste = OGB = Dumat theory: We know that *something* lingers at the Temple of Sacred Ashes. It might also give an underlying reason for Corypheus choosing to start his reign of terror there.
Its clear from oghren's dialogue that the enture mountain that the temple of sacred ashes exists on and in is like one of if not the largest veins of lyrium and with what we know of lyrium after the descent dlc it could be right on top of one of those titans
The Dragon Age fandom: Dumat, old God of Silence
The RUclips subtitles who have no idea who that is: dumont, demot, damat
I could see some parallels between Dumat and Mythal based on their characterization of their values. It was said in Mythal's temple that she was able to see through any of those that petitioned her for justice and if she deduced that their reason for seeking her out were either petty or based on deceit she would not hesitate to strike them down and as such only those pure of mind and heart could be gain the protection or judgement they seek.
Likewise, as described in the text, Dumat could not be swayed by neither desire nor does he tolerate calls of valor. That to me sounds like Dumat could likely also see through those that would come to him seeking power or knowledge and if your reason for seeking those things out were not clear enough in its purpose or deemed worthy, by being based on lies or mere slights, then odds are he wouldn't bother acknowledging you at best and just straight up kill you on the spot at worst.
In the case of both gods their message would be clear: "Don't bullshit me or bring nonsense to my door and I might help you out"
Which if those parallels could be accurate I have to wonder then about Barindur. If it is true that Dumat wouldn't care to hear out requests that are without merit, and it's true that he destroyed Barindur, then why decimate a city simply on your High Priest being ignored? Unless of course there's was something going on in the city that was reason enough to level the city in one fell swoop. Or the city was simply done in by a natural volcanic eruption.
It would make sense that Mythals' spirit would seek something of an old god baby... Andraste? If Andraste's mother was carrying a Grey Warden baby during the fall of Dumat... Maybe???
It would explain how Flemeth/Mythal then Morrigan would know about a ritual that no one really should know how to go about.
Andraste being an OGB does have quite a few other bits of evidence in it's favour; The big one being that whole "founded a religion based on voices she heard in her dreams" thing. As noted, Kieran also had peculiar (?) dreams. If she had the soul/memories of Dumat and/or an Evanuris rattling around in her brain that could certainly result in her thinking the creator of the universe is talking to her.
The other clues are a weird (presumably magical) incident involving her half-sister Halliserre and the somewhat mysterious nature of Halliserre's mother, said to be an "alchemical advisor" (which has "witch" written all over it.)
Yes, this is all way before Flemeth, but who is to say Flemeth was Mythal's first host? Or even her only one? Hell, she even implies in DAII that she can have more than one body at a time.
Granted there's not a lot to go on here, but even without Mythal in the picture one can still see the outline of a plot involving a newly pregnant (read: not showing yet) mage showing up in Elderath's court, seduction, baby switching and even potentially body-swapping. In this scenario Andraste would have been the daughter of said alchemical expert (just the kind of person who might have helped the Warden's develop the joining) and whatever Warden performed the "dark ritual" with her. Halliserre would have been the true daughter of Brona and Elderath and maybe the weird "incident" that supposedly killed Andraste's half-sister was a ritual to body-hop in the way Morrigan thought Flemeth intended for her?
Or maybe a simpler explanation might be that Halliserre as the OGB and the "incident" was a botched attempt by the witch to body-hop and/or extract the Old God's power for herself, but instead it killed them both and jumped into Andraste instead.
I absolutely believe Halliserre was the OGB, because Andraste only hears the voice of the Maker after the incident. She also claims Halliserre's mother spoke heretical things involving the Old Gods.
My favourite bit of evidence is that when Andraste died, Hessarian was told by the voice of the maker to kill her with a sword, which puts me in mind of the Archdemon being stabbed in the head specifically. Some time after, Hessarian goes on to write about the old gods tricking the magisters sidereal into entering the golden city. This is considered propaganda because Hessarian wasn't there, so he should have no way of knowing this if it was true.
And the writing was the Canticle of Silence.
aaa i‘m so excited!!!! i clicked so fast fjdjdjsj
This is the first time I've heard the Andraste=OGB theory, but I like it, and would argue that actually makes Mythal=Dumat possible. I'd imagine when Andraste was burnt the old god spirit was set free bodyless and therefore very weak. It does say it took Mythal ages to gather her strength again when she was just a shadow of herself. 500 years feels like a good estimate of "ages". Then she was summoned by Flemeth who was seeking revenge and she finally has a body again.
To possibly back up the Dumat is Mythal theory. When you go to the Temple of Mythal with Solas, in the first courtyard, as you near the main door, he says, "Silence has reigned here since time before memory." I always thought this was a very important comment that he made and took it to mean that Dumat reigned there since before the dwarves started carving their memories with lyrium runes. I just wasn't sure if that was a stretch but thought we're missing some clue to the link.
Yesss. Taught I was the only one that founded it weird the way Solas says that.
Now that you've wrapped up the Old Gods, it would be cool to see a series on the Avvar gods! I loved the tidbits we got in Jaws of Hakkon. Would also be cool to see stuff on Andraste and her disciples, as you mentioned :)
Falon'din does also blood magic (in Solas' rant) I think he is Dumat or Dumat is a Forgotten one.
Blessed are you dumat. Silent and strong
Silent and Secret
I think the shared asset/statue from Shrine of Dumat and Elgar'nan's Bastion, as well as the volcano story, are good connections between the two. Elgar'nan stole the sun and blotted it out, I believe, and Dumat buried a city after a volcano explosion...and Solas knows this story, as well. I believe that's how it went in game?
The only channel I have the damn bell clicked on, always happy to see the notification of a new video :)
so excited for the new video! thank you
I'm surprised you didn't bring up the Falon'din shit-talking dialogue in the Urthemiel video! Vanity seems like a great reason to rebrand yourself as the God of Beauty when you get a chance to reintroduce yourself to a new set of worshippers.
From the Fen'Harel Codex Entry:
"And that is how Fen'Harel tricked them. Our gods saw him as a brother, and they trusted him when he said that they must keep to the heavens while he arranged a truce. And the Forgotten Ones trusted him also when he said he would arrange for the defeat of our gods, if only the Forgotten Ones would return to the abyss for a time. They trusted Fen'Harel, and they were all of them betrayed. And Fen'Harel sealed them away so they could never again walk among the People."
I think all the "Old Gods" were the "Forgotten Ones", which when Solas made the Veil were tricked to go to the Abyss and got locked there somehow.
Dumat then tried to guide the Tevinter Mages to the "Golden City" beyond the Veil. Probably the Ancient Elven Capital. I guess that the key to setting the Forgotten Ones free lied there.
But the Capital was destroyed just as the Library we see in Trespasser. Corypheyus said so in Legacy. And somehow the source of the blight lay there. Maybe a Failsafe from Solas? Wrath of the Elven Gods which are stuck in the Veil?
After the Magisters left the Veil, they went to Dumat and freed him. But they carried the blight with them and infected him. After that the Darkspawn seek out the Forgotten Ones one after the other in the Abyss and corrupt them, which always starts a blight.
Well those are my 2 Cents. Any comments?
Thrilled to see these videos back :)
I didn't know that Thanksgiving gifts were a thing
Starting the think that BioWare isn’t going to be able to pull the OGB/OG into the eleven law properly in the next game, with so many senior devs gone how is the lord from origins going to be payed off.
Dumah is the Rabbinical and Islamic name of the angel who holds power over the wicked dead who's name means silence in Hebrew and Aramaic. He represents the stillness of death and commands a host of destructive angels. That's the most likely etymology of the dragon's name. I think I postulated that Dumat was a God of the Dead in your first Old Gods video on Andoral where I submitted that the Dragon of Chains was a patron of Labor and Laborers, hence the slavery connection. If the ancient Tevinters worshiped the God of the Dead as their chief deity, it would fit into the edgy dark lord aesthetics of the magister lords. Albeit it's a bit stereotypical since death gods in polytheistic traditions aren't violent or antagonistic, just really sad and gloomy, except for Kali who needs reminding wears nothing except a skirt of severed arms and a necklace of decapitated heads.
This is a very valuable comment in my opinion.
Frog statues are found in elven cemeteries.
Ooo I like the theory of the andraste. Mythal has been around since the culling of the elves. Where has she been before she found flemeth? Did she other host and just kinda bounced from host to host? could andraste be a product of the same situation as morrigan? (Meaning that a “witch of the wilds” mother tasked her daughter preforming the same ritual.)
It’s a thanksgiving miracle!!!
Since DA4 is in Tevinter we could learn about the Old Gods worship
If we can explore more of the deep roads, I'll be happy to see
Really hope that Andraste OGB theory is true, would explain a lot👍
Also the Sentinel armor set from Awakening is said to have been the armor of the Grey Warden who slew Dumat
I think Dumat could be a priest of Dirthamen. Just a theory could be wrong and it does work of a couple of major assumptions but here’s some food for thought. The Evanuris are trapped in the fade somewhere and the legend says that Fen’Harel asked both the Evanuris and the forgotten ones to abandon the war temperately while he did his thing then he trapped them both. Specifically “the gods returned to the heavens” given what we know of the world of thedas this is likely the fade. As Arlathan was the capital city of the empire it would be reasonable if the Evanuris were to wait there for Fen’Harel to complete his task. Now if we believe the black city is Arlathan and the Evanuris were trapped there then this provides a motive to attack the black city. Revenge in particular a chance to kill, enslave or steal the powers of the imprisoned Evanuris. Why would he do so? If this codex entry refers to Dumat then we have a reason. "His crime is high treason. He took on a form reserved for the gods and their chosen, and dared to fly in the shape of the divine. The sinner belongs to Dirthamen; he claims he took wings at the urging of Ghilan'nain, and begs protection from Mythal. She does not show him favour, and will let Elgar'nan judge him." Again if this refers to Dumat then the story goes like this a follower of Dirthamen was urged by Ghilan’nain to take flight (through shape shifting as it can be reasonable assumed that he was a mage) whether she suggested a dragon or not is uncertain and for this was charged with high treason and no one defended him this is a reasonable motive for revenge. For his treason he was bound in his dragon form and imprisoned underground. The other old gods may have been other mages he taught the form to before being imprisoned (his apprentices or lesser colleagues since he is described as the most powerful?)
For one moment there is an image of a shifting, shadowy mass with blazing eyes, whose form may be one or many. Then it fades. (A reference to darkspawn as we know they existed before Dumat woke up?) Evidence - I would say that the enemy's strategy seems to be changing, but they never appeared to have a strategy before, beyond destroying everything in their path. There were darkspawn beyond counting, and at the heart of the throng a great beast, as tall as the palace of Orzammar, with breath of fire. A Paragon of darkspawn, perhaps, for they seemed to pay it deference. (This implies that the darkspawn were fighting the dwarves for a while before the first blight.)
Just some of my thoughts as a fan of the series. I have no real clue and to be honest guessing is half the fun.
I'm starting to fear that DA4 will be a huge disapointment, not because of Bioware but because of expectations. There's so many thing we want to see, and so much lore to be explained that It's almost certain that they will not be able to tell everything.
Oh new logo
Happy Thanksgiving :). The thought of Flemeth + Corypheus = Andraste is the ultimate in tinfoil awesomeness, thanks for sharing it #AndThenShallTheMakerReturnToUs. Speaking of bizarre religious possibilities, have you seen the music video where Leliana lip-synchs to Madonna's Like a Prayer, freaking out the people in Lothering and causing the DAO party to run away in terror? Just curios your take on it. :D
Oh, you mean the best video on the internet? I have seen it!! Tini did an amazing job :)
@@GhilDirthalen Awesome, glad you like it :)
After it was discovered that Dumat was the Arch Demon, the people of Tevinter went nuts and stormed Dumat and the other old gods Temple, slaughtering all the priest and shut that shit down
Dumats statue in the DA:I temple must 100% mean that they are the Elven gods.
Perhaps Andraste's old God soul remains in the scared ashes and thats what gives them their weird properties. If that's true I can only imagine the implications of choosing to corrupt the ashes.
I'm really greatfull for your all work for DA community, when almost all BioWare's franchaise are on hiatus @_@ (I don't count Anthem, it never happened)
Something something silence something something dragons indeed
Just blow my mind why dontcha!
Please please please do a character analysis of Briala and how Inquisition did her wrong!
honestly, i think the "the maker is dumat" theory is the only answer to that question that wouldn't be disappointing. it synergizes well with the hints that she was a mage. the irony would be delish
Solas is the maker is interesting too if you consider him waking up around the time of Andrasté. him trying to help the Dalish so they have a new home and are free from Tevinter. then went back to sleep to wake up the Chantry doing Exalted marches against the Dales and locking mages up about 100 years after her death. also, his comments about the Maker are interesting.
aren't the bodies of the 4 (or 5) grey wardens to have killed an archdemon entombed in weisshaupt? also isn't the slayer of the 3rd archdemon also unknown?
Dumat is the same entity as Dirthamen the Elf God of Secrets. Calling my shot here.
As always, a really good video :) and uhm.... NOT FIRST!!!! :P
maybe if dumat was mythal somehow, andraste's death caused dumat's/mythal's soul to become fragmented and then was able to find its way to flemeth?
OGB= old god baby
My dumbass: “Nah fam more like OGB, Original Ganster Baby”
AAAAHHHH DUMAT! I HAVE FALLEN AND I CANT GET UP DUMAT!
I cant really call this a theory since it has no basis in lore, but what if the old gods were not connected to the evanuris, but rather the forgotten ones? The forgotten ones seem to be referenced as a dark reflection of the elven gods, and it would explain why they seem to correspond so strongly with them without having any connection in mythology. Also given that there seems to be some link between the pillars and the titans, and the pillars play an important role in tevinter culture (?) That would match up as well. Not sure how yet, still ruminating on that.
So as you have covered most if not all the lore what would you say is the weirdest part of the lore
Was Andraste not born in Ferelden/would become Ferelden? An was Dumat not slain somewhere in Tevinter or the Anderfell's? I mean would that not need some serious planing, to be done over such large distances, well I guess Andraste's mother could have been up there, around the time of the final battle, and then give birth in Ferelden nine months later?
She was supposedly born in denerim
Nope, the Silent Plains were he was slain are on the Southern borders of Tevinter. So someone could have just travelled along the Imperial Highway to get from there to Denerim
Likely ignorant question: Corypheus is a darkspawn, right? What if that taint is what caused the first Blight? (I mean that his breach on the Golden City corrupted him rather than darkspawn blood.) And if people are making blood sacrifices to Dumat... and Dumat is the god of blood magic... perhaps Corypheus or one of his co-conspirators gave an offering of tainted blood? Or perhaps being banished by the Maker caused the taint, à la the creation of demons in Christian mythology? Just a question from a fan who doesn't know much about the deeper lore.
would you ever consider captioning your videos? sometimes you garble your words from talking too fast