As well as most of the ghost girls and vailer even though vailer is technically not a ghost girl and she is a lv 1 tuner. Also ogere can be summoned off of e-teliport.
Funny, I came to this conclusion myself after playing a deck with Crossout. I usually run 3 ofs of the handtraps i want, but in the Crossout deck I have 2 ofs, and 1 ofs. I found myself almost never opening two ash, and usually having better handtrap options.
My rule of thumb is never run 3 unless you can actually use all 3 of those cards in one turn, or it's some super-important staple that you literally need 3 of for a deck to work.
This video was actually very helpful and insightful. I don't know how well it would apply to my deck though as it doesn't really synergize with most of the generic search cards. It is a Charmer deck, and so most of the cards have built-in synergy with the main engine, but there are some cards that are just very necessary at 3 copies each in the deck; "Fairy Tail - Luna" as a way to search the Charmer monsters and "Time-Tearing Morganite" to help get additional plays and draws in the turn (the latter of the two cards is also currently not searchable as LAO is very bad in the deck). Morganite though is one of those cards that you do want to open up multiples of because of its GY effect, tho. Regardless, this video was actually very helpful and I plan to put the logic you shared within this video into deck building amongst my other decks that greatly benefit from this insightful knowledge. (Need to thank my friend for showing me this video).
This kinda reminds me of the Pokemon TCG community. Since Pokemon has so many good searchers, you won't run four copies of a card unless you feel that you will need to use all four.
Pokemon is so very different from every other TCG. You need specific cards in your hand or you literally can't play at all (energy, energy acceleration, Switch, Rare Candy, etc), so it's a big game of chance as you redraw new hands every turn hoping you hit that required card. And the Prize mechanic removing random cards from your deck at the start of the game...
In some ways, the searching economy in Pokemon is way more interesting than that of Yugioh, because you always have to think about that spanner in the works that is the possibility of your search target randomly ending up sequestered in your prize pool.
@@MarkThePage Pokemon's clunkiness with draws used to be offset by appropriate clunkiness in attack costs. Check out the e-Series block (which never got independent play in real life) to see what peak Pokemon could be like. Many people also enjoy EX block, but it's a little more flashy than e-Series.
I once looked into Pokemon's history! Do the retro formats have an actual player base? The Gen 3 stuff had so many cool ideas, though I felt bothered by the ubiquity of Claydol (and I think Holon's Magneton? If I somehow actually remember that?). I think Platinum was the peak, and I actually built a Galactic deck though I never actually played in a tournament. Then HGSS wiped out all of the game's creative depth forever...
@@MarkThePageSome dedicated people still make tournaments for the Ex format, there was one a few months ago in Japan! Personnally I love the old Pokémon TCG, I have been doing a Progression Series of it with 2 friends on Tabletop Simulator!
The only issue is measuring the "disparity in power" between 2 handtraps. In that regard, Ash blossom and joyous spring can be used in three separate scenarios where the others can be used in 1 or 2. Such an array of usefulness makes drawing multiples less worrisome because you can almost certainly use it next turn. Belle and ogre has varying effectiveness on the deck you play against, so a more ubiquitous approach to stopping opponents is taken by using the 3 ash. This is no rebuttal to your claims, but merely something to further consider.
It's not so much about the number of situations a handtrap applies to, since every deck does everything nowadays, as it is the impact when something is negated. Negating a search or a graveyard effect is usually more significant than destroying a monster when it activates its effect on field. For that reason, I typically start with 2 Ash, 2 Mourner, 2 Imperm, since I know all three of those cards are nearly guaranteed an impactful negate every game.
A wrinkle with that, is often games are frontloaded in the first few turns. Do you have the capability to use that second ash blossom if you didn’t draw an additional handtrap?
@@yurisei6732You don't usually use Ogre to destroy a monster, even though that can be good for cards like Albaz, you use it to negate permanent spells/traps or field spells. It outshines Ash there, as Ash only negates the search, but leaves the cards on the field for the next turn.
There's not nearly enough deckbuilding discourse that explore concepts like minimizing HOPT bottlenecks, flexible searches versus inflexible searches, Garnet and brick ratios relative to the "hardness" of them, as some can still be live if drawn if you also drew a way to get them into the GY or something, and concluding the discussion with the tacit implication that Forbidden Droplet is one of the best designed cards ever printed by letting you weaponize your bricks and duplicates as negates as long as you still have sufficient engine to play through what's left. Good video.
I love that you popped in here just to give this random anecdote, as if we didn't spend hours discussing the theoretical mathematics behind this script.
@@four-en-tee to be specific, it's that when you skip to end of battle to use the first evenly matched and it gets negated, the best card for you to have in your hand is another evenly matched.
I think you make an assumption here that is not necessarily true. Not every card is created equal. Some cards are so specifically strong in certain situations, you can't swap something of equal value. For example, in certain formats, turn ending handtraps like dimension shifter and droll and lock bird have no suitable substitute if you can run them. Figuring out which cards have this much value in a given format is important, and staples do wax and wane from format to format since their effectiveness in a given format vary. Ash Blossom usually can't stop a snake eye combo, but its a better option than ghost ogre against it. I definitely agree with your point of going over 40. Many decks have done this even as early as 2019 because of incredibly consistent redundant starters in the main and extra. It comes with the issue of the larger your deck is, the less you see your sidedecked nonengine into important matchups games two and three. Decks can still do well over 40 though, branded just topped at the NAWCQ with a 50 card list.
Actually, I did state that cards should still be run in duplicates if they are at least twice as useful as what you'd expect to draw instead (thus being worth losing a draw to access). In the example of a payoff matrix, different cards can be assigned different values for different situations. That can help in considering whether each individual card is useful enough to justify the fail rate introduced by running duplicates.
You forget he actually stated the initial assumption. The initial assumption that it's actually more of a detriment (the -5 scenario) when drawing multiples than it's good counterpart (the multiple +1 scenarios) Dimension shifter is a game winner alone. Especially in MD when most players will just scoop against it. The scenario when you draw multiples might still be a -5 but drawing one is making any detriment negligible
I had a friend in school who was the comp yugioh guy and I remember him telling me to run 5 1-ofs that could stop any strategy and it genuinely helped alot
I ve listen to you. I changed my Shark deck in masterduel completely and I love the result. It is insane what hands I ve had. At least for this lower tier deck it helped alot. I run a 50cards deck rn and the consistency of drawing playable hands going first or second changed drastically!
I did this with a few cards in my deck. Jack in the Jand was important for me to get cards into my hand, but drawing more than one was a problem since it's a hard once per turn. Had to cut it to two so it lessened the frequency of duplicates. I also found board breakers a bit more effective by putting them to two so instead of many evenly matches in hand it would be two board breakers that focused on different things. Main deck cards are really powerful, only extra deck size will be the determining limit. In a few years you'll go from two archetypes together in a deck to three of them in almost highlander looking decks due to other engines picking up the slack if you didn't draw cards from the other archetypes.
My decks are already there! Everything I build is such a mashup, and yes, the extra deck is EVERYTHING. I noticed recently that my deckbuilding revolves around how many slots I have left. It's all about extra deck searchers, and whether one can afford the additional slots required for Link climbs, and Xyz changes.
You have no idea how happy this made me about my apparently odd decision to run staples at 1 copy (save Ash, which I run at 2, because it's the one I have 2 of). I myself have found that, even at a single copy, Ioften wind up seeing my stake cards in my opening hand anyway, so this checks out to me.
Thank you for making this video. The logic does work as essentially it's about maximizing every card possible within the first 5 cards in hand. The more plays we have available in hand, the better. Appreciate this a ton as a returning yugioh player. It's not about having as many staples/counters possible, but it's about having as many counters available. Having same copies doesn't mean all of them become LIVE.
The story of Sapphire Surprise! I don't know if you've watched that video and its YCS vlog--when Verte was banned we thought the deck was ruined, but I wasn't ready to give up. Over three frantic days I found that Verte was actually never the best way to connect Branded and Tri-Brigade. To this day, in Master Duel I don't run Verte at all. Sometimes, losing the "best" option can reveal that it was actually just the easy option all along. The easy option felt good enough, so we stopped looking deeper.
Running garnets at 2 might be better than running them at 1, especially if they're not completely dead in hand. Drawing into your one of is much more likely than drawing both copies of your 2 of, meaning you'll have a copy in deck to use.
THIS! I mentioned this in my Crystal Beast guide. Nearly everyone will say to use just 1 Rainbow Dragon, then complain about losing for drawing it. I myself tend to lose immediately whenever I'm foolish enough to side out the second copy! Drawing 1 of 2 copies can hurt, but not nearly as much as drawing 1/1 of a vital combo piece. The concept of payoff matrices is very helpful for explaining these kinds of tradeoffs. (Every deck is different so everyone should make their own calculations here.)
Laurel in Plant Link is a recent example of this. Plant Link can be run at 60 cards and Laurel isn't that awful to draw because you often have lines where the special summon effect is live
See, this is why I run 2 Baller in GP PUNK. Ideally you dont want to hard open it, but its better to ensure there's still one in the deck. My deck is a 50 card brew anyways, I have the space for a second copy.
@@stardust9470 Laurel’s not a garnet, though, because you can just Summon her from hand if you draw her. The reason you’d run 2 Laurel is because some combo lines need 2-but improved combo lines have been found that need only 1, meaning you only need 1 Laurel.
You might helped me cementing my YCS HERO list as I am struggling with the 40th card. After this video I said “yeah fk it, one talent, one thrust, one lonely imperm. I am playing HERO, I desperately need more multiple-axis cards, flexibility and diversity.” We have time until november, let’s test this list using this mentality for the non engine, which btw I absolutely agree with 😂❤
All I'm seeing here is that you made a 39-card Hero deck. HOW? I try to make my own every few months and it's always 80 cards, AFTER cutting! When you can run pretty much any quantity of search spells/Stratoses, how in the world do you decide on the right number!?
@@MarkThePage I am simply building it towards the maximum amount of USABLE engine which is 30 without sacrificing the grind game. So the standard 3 stratos and 2 increase for example. The rest is 10 non engine which all of them must be either quick play board breakers so that can be used go 1st or 2nd, or impactful cards that at least trade 1 for 1 with the opponent board. And as much as I play 3 talents, if I draw 2 OR THREE means I have dead cards in hand, and this deck to thrive in this format NEEDS all 6 six cards. Hence why also no handtraps cause make the engine too weak. So as of now my 10 non engine cards are 3 eclipse, 2 droplet, 1 calledby, 1 Talent, 1 thrust, 2 imperm. All and all we need a banlist, the gap between rogue and meta is INSANE 😭 Btw sorry for the yapping I love deckbuilding and HERO so much
@@YukiHeroYGO okay but two imperm i dont get cause that one is literally live all the time, not once per turn, until you commit, and even then, you can set it with the bonus effect too
@@snakevenom56 It’s not final xD but yeah I’ll probably find a way to slide the third in, it’s especially good cause doesn’t get calledbyed or procs Tactics About the video tho, someday I am gonna roll at locals with a deck with like 12 different one ofs and I am sure It’ll be fun. No duplicates/highlander is such a fun experience! Even if it’s just the staples, the opponent will never know what to expect! Haha 😂
Thank You!!! I've been saying aside from 3 imperm you can run 2 ghost ogres and 2 blossom and 2 dd crow or even ghost bell and be fine. I usually only run 3 of w play starters and everything else is 2 of or 1 of and my decks function fine at tournaments. Yes starters are important and good to have two so you can go again on your second turn. But most things simply don't need to be at 3.
Your video opened my mind a lot. I used to play a deck with a lot of one card combos, so I was playing 3 of each. However, some hands were getting really bricky due to the hopt clause. I switched the least important ones to 2 and now draw multiple different starters (Each starter is technically an extender depending on the disruption used btw) and have more space for nonengine
Magic the Gathering has a mechanic called legendary creatures, which are creatures that you can't have more than one of on the field at once. If you have two legends with the same name, one of them has to go to the graveyard. Thus, the first copy is a stronger than average creature for that mana cost, but the rest are useless except as backups. Due to the drawback, magic players normally don't run more than 3 of the same legendary creature in a deck, even though the maximum allowed is 4.
Mtg goldfish can show that thats not true, core cards are 4 of, chord of calling decks dont need 4 of anything, earlygame legends arent worth the chance of drawing lategame, in any quantity. Its not because people are worried about flooding out in a format where one and often zero mana kills anything
Magic The Gathering still primarily draws its cards instead of searching them, and there are basically no cards you just don't want in your hand. It's a slightly different scenario. Though, I've actually been building my decks using the math and strategy behind this video for several years. I play mostly singletons for the sheer power of diversity, with crucial strategy pieces that I very much want in every starting hand at the max number of copies. Something like Sheoldred the Apocalypse is strong, strong enough to draw enemy removal out, which actually makes the legend rule almost a strength, as it encourages the player to not overcommit their resources and instead hold something back as a way to effectively neutralize your opponents' removal.
I wouldnt at all say its an exception to any rule. Just looking at goldfish show MOST decks running legendaries in their core, run 4 ofs. The exceptions are the Eldrazi and some decks that run 3 ofs to smooth out the mana curve (Control and zoo for example with phlage) But Phlage and Ajani in boros energy, Sheoldred in mono black, Yawgmoth and Grist in yawg combo, karn in tron, Omnath and W6 in omnath, Ragavan in Zoo, Murktide in murktide, the one ring in every deck. Pretty much every instance in Modern, where legendary permanents make up part of the decks core, they run 4 ofs. What youve described is the exception not the rule.
In OCG or MD you would like wanted to have 2 Ash blosom if you are going second. 1 is for stopping enemy best card play and another is for defending Maxx 'C'.
being a mostly tearlaments player makes discussions about deckbuilding much more complicated because now you're not just worrying about cards you want to draw and cards you want to search, you also have cards you want to mill
I am learning a lot of this game thanks to your explanations and perspectives of playing. Thank you so much, the right amount of jokes make the videos worthy to watch repeatedly 😂❤
I remember moving my deck to 44 cards actually barely decreased the consistency for single but increased by percentage of 2 card combos. Overalls increasing consistency. This actually maths and makes sense
The thing specifically with Ash in MD is that Maxx-C is legal, requiring every possible out to be played. And the thing with Ash is the sheer utility of it as opposed to something like Shifter if you draw multiple. I know with almost certainty that I'll be able to Ash something that my opponent is trying to do on the next turn, whereas other handtraps are much more situational or are legitimately dead draws in multiples Also, loved the Pliny the Elder reference lol
There are specific cards in your opponent that you have to stop that's why its relevant to put a multiple copies of the specific counter cards against your opponent.. For example, since I'm an ocg player I'll make maxx C a very good example, the only cards that can practically stop it are ash and called.. If you only put 1 of each ash and called, the higher chance you will be punished by your opponent's maxx C..
Ash Blossom does have a unique role here! I wonder what a payoff matrix would look like for Ash vs Maxx C... Because if you draw a counter but the opponent doesn't draw a Maxx C for it to negate, then you've wasted a draw. Then account for whether Ash/Called still has a compelling impact compared to the average draw of your deck. And the strength of an average turn from a 4-card hand vs what your average 5-card hand can achieve under Maxx C... Floodgates simplify the game, but it's still so complex!
@@MarkThePage Depends on what the utility of those other 'counter' cards generally are. Something like Ash, if you can get to that turn 3 or 4, often don't feel that bad to draw in multiples, because its pretty easy to use them over multiple turns, and at least has *some* utility against every deck. As you yourself said, searching in modern yugioh is king. Draw your tactics, belle or ogre against the wrong matchup/without your opponent triggering it, its often dead for the whole game. Draw two Ash vs runick stun, you probably think "thank god, i might be able to stabilize and get a win." Draw one ash and belle, that ash better do its job cause it has one chance. What you've said is generally correct, but at the same time, lets not pretend why there isn't a reason that cards like belle, ogre, reaper, gnomaterial if you want to get silly, and even cards that are just hopt versions of veiler and imperm like mourner, tend to have to wait in line to get into deck lists vs Ash, veiler, imperm, and nibiru
In his video, MBT argues that Ash is often run because it's the most generally applicable, but it should typically then be sided out in favor of more effective counters. We also consider Ash to be "the card to run" because it's more eternal than other cards--but that's an OVERALL trend, not one which necessarily holds true at any specific meta.
"If you draw a counter but your opponent doesn't draw maxx C" What a laugh bro.. XD I understand your point of view, but I don't know if you truly understand how the meta works or not.. If possible, you can try the OCG format with minimal hand traps and see if what you tell is purely correct. And continue telling it once you got 1st place. It's not just about maxx C, but to all 1 card combo decks today like fiendsmith, yubel and snake eyes.
I am very much on Board with this. I only play 3 offs in a select few Cases, like some Fieldspells, my Blue Eyes, and selfsummoners like "Peten, dark Clown" or "Destiny Hero Malicious". Otherwise i prefer the Animestyle, where they value variety over multiples
I've learnt through trial and error how 40 cards aren't necessarily the most optimal. I was surprised to see how much better a deck ran with 50 cards instead of 40.
40 is consistency. 45 is good if you expect to use 20+ cards in a turn. 50 offers a respectable amount of utility, and encourages smoke screen tactics. And then there's those crazy people with 60 cards. Reverse consistency theory states that, if it is true that reducing your deck side increases odds of a specific draw, then the inverse can also be true, allowing you to run more garnets.
Thank you for making this video. I used to make this point, but off the basis of Yugioh being a game made for fun & not a game with inherently "good" or "bad" cards, just cards that work out in your favor in more or less of your duels
noted: one time per turn : reduce / multiple times x turn : keep, better if they are super useful / multiple uses (in your deck) like ash x lvl 7 monsters -synch + handtrap- is ok but other way run multiple other not once per turn hand traps you have more chance to use your entire hand no bricks
Besides Branded, Infernoble is one other perfect example of a deck that is better being played as (mostly) a singleton list, and can sometimes benefit from being a pile to avoid opening into spells you want Isolde to dump, or Museum to get to (to then allow the SS from Equip effect). Sometimes it really is just infinitely better to have more variety in your single-use special summons and/or effects, than going 2-3x on certain things and limiting your ability to make plays if you open multiples.
I've unintentionally started lowering how many of specific cards I put into the deck. for reference, I am a proud Skull Servant (or Wight) player. I run most of their lineup at 3. (there are exceptions depending on if I'm running Allure of Darkness or Hand Destruction). But I'm seriously considering putting Wightlord at 2 because you can only use both effects (discard from hand to mill X-cards equal or lesser than Wights in the grave, banish itself from grave to special summon a Wight to the field from graveyard.) My most common bricks usually involve having one of each or more in my opening hand-- Skull Servant, Lady in Wight, Mezuki (along with cards I cannot immediately use at the time like book of life with no graveyard set up on either side, hand destruction when the opponent has an empty hand, etc). however, Skull Servant and Lady in Wight are VERY necessary for the deck to work (namely because of Wightprince, Whightprincess, and Wightbaking). and I really like having Mezuki at 3 because it's not once per turn, him and Prince pair nicely with Burial From A Different Dimension. Whitemare is a whole other can of worms because it's a wonderful recursion effect from the banish pile but it ONLY works in the hand. Then other cards that I throw in are 2 each of Uni-zombie, Ashblossom, Azghoul mara (the level 8 one), and sometimes Jack-O' Bolan. Turns out I like Link+Synchro's with my Zombies.
Skull Servant is like SPYRAL: fun combos but they go through many cards, most of which will hurt to draw. It certainly feels like there's no right way to build that kind of deck. Some themes are simply made to be inconsistent.
Nice video! You start realizing things like this when you start building yoir own non meta decks (since meta is usually good enough to just copy as is from the net). For example a year ago I was building synchrons on master duel, and only source on yt for a competitive list is o37wolf exactly unless you want the Disneyland youtube combo with 15 bricks that works once every 4th game if the opponent has no handtraps haha, and his deck is a really good starting point, but it's hardly a solved deck so you have to experiment for yourself. As I started climbing ranks and playing more games I realized its wayy better to run over 40 cards because as long as you can get to speeder you can do full combo basically and it decreases the likelyhood of drawing your 3-4 garnets that you need for the deck to work and there is enough ways to search all the pieces that you need. also you are willing to run as many copies of cards that stop maxx c as are available in the format because if they drop maxx c you lose the game right there, and drawing multiple copies of cards that stop it is not the worst thing in the world.
Ngl When I first watched this video I was like "Nah this is insane play 40 cards for consistency or play 60 for pile" Then after a lost streak on MD I tested out your theory of playing more cards and one of hand traps or more hand traps without a once per turn and now i'm streaking in Master about to hit M1. My win rate from like 49% to 60% 💀. It worked extremely well because i'm currently playing Yubel, I was playing it at 40 which was okay... The problem is Yubel plays a ton of bricks, so if you off set the bricks with extra 1 ofs well you'll get less bricks. Anyway I wanted to shout out to you, you were right and thanks for making this vid.
This reminds me a bit of advice that's given to people getting into Magic: the Gathering. Or at least it was; I don't keep up that well with it anymore. They're different enough games that not everything transfers over perfectly (mainly in relation to velocity of play and quantity of search effects/tutors), but I think the main takeaway that's given to newer players getting more serious about deckbuilding holds. The key is about the *feel* of a card when drawn. How often is it live? How often do you need it to be? How often does it feel good to draw vs how often does it feel bad? If you find yourself not liking seeing it, back off a copy or 2. If it always feels great, run 4. It's something that you get a feel for in playtesting, rather than adhering to a formula or following common wisdom. I think yugioh player have some understanding of this, but frequently fail to articulate it properly. They end up getting lost in the weeds of the 3-of default assumption because they forget they can run fewer copies of something rather than trading it out for some other 3-of that bricks slightly different scenarios.
You still should run multiples of the most important cards! Even when just building for fun, there will be certain cards which are much more fun to draw.
You make me feel so much better about my Speedroid decks; always seems to be balanced between 43 to 47 cards and I hate when I get duplicate Terrortops or Taketomborg!
Speedroid is imo a deck you need to play at 47 at least because there is so much cards you don't want to draw duplicates but at the same time you want one copie and you have a lot of cards to search them. Also if you want to have room to play small extenders or generic hand trap, spells you can't have enough size in a 40 card deck with often bricking.
I use 2 ofs for my non engine. It feels better and siding is easy following the same. (Odd 15th card is duster usually.) Layered interaction is truly amazing and those 3rd copies become a pair of talents, droplet, etc Mathematically it works very well
The math changes up when siding is involved, because there's less guesswork in the effectiveness of your cards. You'll likely be siding in cards so powerful that you might not mind drawing all 3 copies at once. And as for what to side out... that's an art of its own.
I like to use Emergency Teleport with Ghost Ogre. Since Ogre can pop from the field emergency makes one from the deck live on the opponents turn, and can give you a level 7 synchro in a typical deck if used during yours.
Master Duel i find best is usually 3 Ash/veiler/imperm and 2 of anything else. Veiler and imperm aren't limited to once per turn so it's fine to have multiple, and ash is fine having 2 when maxx c activates on my turn and my opponent does things in theirs.
Totally agree, some alien brains were arguing with me that running 3 copies of thrust and 1 of talents is more justifiable than running 2 thrust and 2 talents.
What I find beautifully hilarious is that when I got back into Yugioh during 2012, I hadn't played since my playground era of 2004. So I built a deck of singletons because the anime and all the starter decks I played when I was a kid taught me that that's just how yugioh players build their decks. I learnt very fast how WRONG I was and stuck to a small core of 2-3 copies ever since. Now, exactly 20 years since those playground days, it seems singleton HAS become the optimal way to build a deck! XD
I'm glad this video exists. I've gone over the math and the strategies in this video multiple times myself, and have been using them for the past several years. My game of choice is Magic The Gathering, so it's not exactly a 1:1 comparison. For example, in Magic we still mostly draw our cards, so there are no cards in our decks that we're ever upset to see in our opening hand. But, the power of diversity is pretty overwhelming, both in a vacuum and in the context of metagames. If everyone's running 9 4-ofs, there's just no possible way for them to be able to handle 24 different unique threats or answers, and that still leaves me with 3 4-ofs myself to form the fundamental core of the deck's plan. Even the minimum deck size thing that most players hold sacrosanct is not actually all that impactful by comparison to the advantage this diversity brings. MtG is in a state where it's a lot harder to build a strong deck this way, but with Yugioh it almost feels like it might be hard not to. Though to be fair my experience playing Yugioh is only a few months of Master Duel, around the time that Tearlaments were dominating. I was using a silly Dragonmaid deck, and I found it to be more consistent at 60 than at 40. I doubt it was a good deck, but it had a winning matchup against the so-called tier 0 threat of the time so... eh.
I have no idea how anyone builds decks in Magic when, due to having so many cards which are functionally nearly identical even in Standard, I feel like there's no limit to how many copies of each card you can really use. So it comes down to "what percentage of my deck do I want to be 2-mana attackers?" I occasionally pop in and try building a Standard deck around a theme (because I'm a Yugioh player) and they're always 100 cards. I have trouble choosing between multiple cards of equal power levels and neither being searchable.
This actually used to be a great game plan back in the days. Half your Goat deck was limited staples anyways but the amount of limited cards made people account for spent power cards like Mirror Force and Heavy Storm. Also back in the Synchro era (Tengu rather than Edison) I was able to do this with stuff like the Plant engine where everything was at 1 anyways but there was little to worry about because Level 1 Tuners had Lonefire, 141, and Foolish to come out. Any draw order was fine and making hands work was more fun this way. Nowadays I imagine one would be wanting to max on the Maxx C (or the mulchummy for TCG) and then draw hand traps at 1 or 2 so you can draw into the variety and use them before the end phase hand reset effect. Although this would only become a thing if the hand traps are valuable dropped in like step 7 of the opponent's combo when you finally draw into them...... probably not since OCG hasn't been doing it with Maxx C on their side. There was this one time when a 60 card Fire Fist deck topped some event because they were like "I'd rather have the extra options and everything is just equally searchable anyways" and probably also screwed with "Grass is Greener" plays as a cherry on top.
Dang it... Somebody finally make a good video about YGO deck math... I agree that sometimes 3 copy of once per turn handtrap such as Ash Blossom can be a dead draw when u open multiple of it... That is why you should consider make a play for, if you need to normal summon them (as link /xyz/ fusion material or even synchro tuner). Plays variant of handtraps also make crossout even stronger... Also yep, forcing your deck size to 40 cards sometime become poison instead... Cz more likely to draw copy of your once per turn card or Garnet = less gas to play...
You still want to draw as many starters and extenders as possible, so 40 cards is ideal. You want to put in all of those cards and then start adding staples until you get to 40. Also a second copy of ash blossom can often be useful. You end up using one on your turn often enough. But yeah for searchable cards you can often do well with just one.
If you draw as many starters and extenders as possible, then you are drawing no hand traps, board breakers, or protection. If we do start building the deck by putting in all the starters and extenders... well, for increasingly many decks that already puts you above 40 cards, if not 60 cards. Every card, deck, and strategy is different. No one set of principals will amount to good advice for ALL of them.
@@MarkThePage You're right, if you add more starters in a 60 card deck you will achieve the same consistency. It does depend what you're playing. And these new decks have sooo many options.
In a format where maxx c exists at 3 copies, unless you’re a floo player or trap gimmick player etc.., you’re probably going to special summon on your turn. So you have to play the maxx c minigame before the real game starts. Ash has to be at 3 as well as called by and cross out at as many as legal. If you lose the maxx c minigame you probably lose completely 😔
Nice vid, I rarely run 3 copies of anything that is a natural brick alongside itself. Surprised this is such a foreign concept. Well done (something good actually came from an MBT video).
Do people not like MBT? You can probably tell from my style that I'm not a fan of YugiTubers in general (I hail from a _very_ different part of RUclips!), but his videos have seemed fine to me. He's a good, clear presenter.
@@MarkThePage See that's my problem, he's good at sounding like he knows what he's talking about, but as somebody who lives and breathes TCGs (too much for his own good sometimes) he just states things that are outright wrong, meaning he's either uninformed or misrepresenting the truth. Though if you like him don't take my comment too seriously, I'm not the type who polices who people enjoy watching. I'll at least say he clearly loves the game (or maybe at least hates it less than he hates other things). Biggest take away is this though, I liked your vid more than one of his, so if you think he's great, then that means I think you're even greater than him.
This seems to not take into account the reason we run max handtraps. That some hand traps arent useable in certain formats. Like you can use say ash, ghost, and effect veiler as 1 offs but if its a format where ghost isnt useful then why run it
I did take that into account! Notice the conditional: "IF there is not a huge disparity in usefulness between..." So just be sure to consider just how impactful each card is in relation to each other in the expected environment.
Even in a format where they ARE equally impactful, they may not be of equal impact in the comfines of a single game. They each do something different and might be useless if not drawn at the right moment. If you just play Ash, even if you risk duplicates, you can rely on it coming up when you need it instead of that only happening onxe every banlist
Reminds me of when I reduced 3 Piri-Reis Maps in my Exodia FTK deck to only 1 and that massively improved consistency, despite the card it searches (Royal Magical Library) being the absolute core of the deck. That's mostly due to the fact that if I draw it at any point other than my initial draw or the draw phase it's completely unusable. And since I often have to keep a chain of spell going this more often than not actually hurts my chances, despite the two extra copies giving me insane chances to get my library.
I run one of each ghost sisters in tcg because as you said, its once per turn and also, i got traumatized by having 3 ash 2 belle in one of my hand. My friend said that its kinda stupid, and on some level, i did agree, because at that time, the other ghost sisters werent that useful and u can end a turn with just an ash or an imperm anyways. But the fear of drawing 3 ash still haunts me. Well, thats just in tcg, in md, i use 3 ash cuz of that damn roach
Older formats also have a larger disparity between strong and weak cards. Never forgot that Pot of Greed and De-Spell came out in the same set. If you could make a deck with 40 1-ofs of equal power in those formats, then the advice in this video would be more relevant to those formats.
I get what your saying and it makes sense like if your gonna draw 3 cards that can only be used once per turn over drawing 3 different cards but you need certain cards in most matchups to even have a chance to interact with them. There is also a argument that even drawing multiple ash could come up or any card in multiples as the board state and players hands have so many combinations that, that brick of a hand is actually the right hand to crack that board. Also we change formats so often that no format is ever solved you could even say that realistically in the end playing 50 or even 60 cards is actually the correct way to play and the most optimal way to play then just 40. This whole card game is based on chance yes most of time stuff is guaranteed but those are just search's and lines of play, the first 5 cards you draw are what really decides who wins or loses and how you play them.
If only it wasn’t such a pain to build decks be it physical or digital. I enjoy the idea of only owning one deck and playing that one religiously. [But with Meta changes there will always be at least one type of deck you want to try out and then you have to grind again] I can appreciate however that once you have the core of your deck, you don’t need anything else. Imagine the hell this game would be if you had to level up your cards as well.
I mean I more less already knew this. Especially since I am Duel Links player with smaller hand size and I have to always think "If I run 3 of these, how hard do I brick if I draw all of them". It's why I use Card Calculators for looking at opening hands. Hell, in Duel Links I was one of the people to predict the whole "You can play max amounts of cards in deck and still be insanely consistent" while people thought such things as absurd. Having 3 copies of the same cards are usually reserved for "I need to have this card in hand in order to deck to function". But back in the day it wasn't that abnormal to see card like Pot of Duality at 3. Duel pacing back then was just that much slower and you had a lot less searchers.
Great video, agree with this point when you are running less than 12 hand traps, but at the high hand trap counts, its hard to find replacements imo, correct me if i am weong though
Good point! For a deck built around a small engine, nothing does what they do for covering both turns. Personally though, being a combo player who loves engine piles, I have no experience with decks like that! I would rather mix in strategies which can break boards or set up disruption (though not every handtrap.dek will have good, synergistic access to that stuff). I see something like this happening with Snake-Eye players moving to Fiendsmith, running more in-engine cards now.
The unexpected trump imitation was unexpected and had me laughing out loud. This was a very fun and informative video and the first time YT algo recommended. Definitely subbed! 👍🏻
Oh fuck yup! I’ve been doing this for about a year now and have amazing results with any deck. I recently made a crazy ass 60 card branded/predaplant/relinquished deck and sculpted it to perfection and somehow end on some pretty damn good boards. I like to think people get hyped up to see the relinquished or venom dragons get summoned instead of ol' meta
It opens up so many more possibilities and you end up getting really good at deck building and deck building becomes fun IMO and not chore-like. I spend hours fucking around with decks all the time in master duel while just chillin, watching a vid or listening to music. Idk I fuckin love yugioh lol
This vids was very enjoyable i love deck as a concept percentages and what not. Ive always avoided duplicates personally for my cb decks as much as possible so i can bait more things. HOWEVER that doesnt acknowledge the garnets we run.😂
Ash may be not enough to stop most decks to make their combos, but a good player may use it on a key moment to disrupt the opponent's combo just enough so they can play through their end board. Cards like Ogre and Belle are best used against specific strategies and can't disturb your opponent's combo enough to the point of allowing you to make a counterplay in the next turn if your opponent's deck isn't particularly weak to those effects, while Ash is good against any deck, to the point of being more than worthy running the low risk of getting two copies in the starting hand, not to mention that if your deck have good 1 card combos getting multiple copies of the same card isn't a big problem.
there was a time that having different card have benefits, it was happened to me like this Opponent: Adding Card from his Deck Me: Discard Ash to Negate Draw Opponent: Activated Called by the Grave to counter my ash. Me: Luckily have Ghost Belle Negated Called by the grave. Ghost Belle saved the day and ash blossom.
I actually use many 2 ofs and 1 ofs with few 3 ofs. I think I'm pretty good at assembling ratios the problem is that some decks just don't have what it takes to compete, many decks just miss that 1 or 2 support pieces to be viable. It also gets harder to be creative with deck building since komoney likes putting so many stupid restrictions on modern cards.
you can also just make a deck with no handtraps but thats just me. sometimes my opponent has cards that do nothing because i aint using ash or something like that.
I can't say I agree with not running multiples, but thank you for 6:10 ive been trying to say this since 60 card pendulums during toss format! Dilute your bricks if you have to run so many!
‘Not to imply Yu-Gi-Oh players are dumb’
But they are though.
As a yugioh player I can confirm
Ur dumber😢
True
Y'know if we Yugioh players read we might be offended by whatever you just wrote. Guess I'll never know
Lol
@@knes167 If we read we will lose time to cook our combos
Don't forget that Ash is a tuner and can be normal summoned to make a synchro.
Very important, especially for decks with level 7 synchros!!!
[proceeds to forget immediately, every time]
Making Arc Light or Armory Arm in Drytron is very funny.
honestly this is far scarier that the other normal summon ash
Or as Link fodder. But that only works in decks that can summon her, in spright e.g. shes most of the time not a good summon
As well as most of the ghost girls and vailer even though vailer is technically not a ghost girl and she is a lv 1 tuner. Also ogere can be summoned off of e-teliport.
I gotta run 3 ash to keep our local branded puppet lock player in check.
Have you considered running Gimmick Puppets? 🤔
Have you considered playing floowandereze
@@tumage8592 But if he does that then somebody will need to keep the local Floo player in check (by not allowing them inside the store)
Just use his puppet as tribute fodder for the domain lock 🗿
@@tumage8592 Can Bird Floo FTK? Gimmick Puppets can FTK. 😈
“Normally you can only use cards once per turn”
Laughs in Dark World
Same🤣
Me watching this as I'm modifying my Dark World deck lmao
Sadly the best card is hard once on the summon. Genta.
@@flapskeygo yeah the special from banishment, but either way it’s their only main deck monster with a hard once, still agree tho 😢
@@flapskeygo only the special from banish is a once per turn, you can dis it for gates as many times as you want!
"If it's in your deck it's probably good." You underestimate my stupidity.
Funny, I came to this conclusion myself after playing a deck with Crossout. I usually run 3 ofs of the handtraps i want, but in the Crossout deck I have 2 ofs, and 1 ofs. I found myself almost never opening two ash, and usually having better handtrap options.
Crossout is a VERY visible example of toolboxing! Can't believe I forgot to give it a shoutout in this video!
I've been on 2 of hand traps since ash blossom first released and I've never regretted that decision
My rule of thumb is never run 3 unless you can actually use all 3 of those cards in one turn, or it's some super-important staple that you literally need 3 of for a deck to work.
That feel when you can’t draw two copies of a one of
This video was actually very helpful and insightful. I don't know how well it would apply to my deck though as it doesn't really synergize with most of the generic search cards. It is a Charmer deck, and so most of the cards have built-in synergy with the main engine, but there are some cards that are just very necessary at 3 copies each in the deck; "Fairy Tail - Luna" as a way to search the Charmer monsters and "Time-Tearing Morganite" to help get additional plays and draws in the turn (the latter of the two cards is also currently not searchable as LAO is very bad in the deck). Morganite though is one of those cards that you do want to open up multiples of because of its GY effect, tho. Regardless, this video was actually very helpful and I plan to put the logic you shared within this video into deck building amongst my other decks that greatly benefit from this insightful knowledge. (Need to thank my friend for showing me this video).
This kinda reminds me of the Pokemon TCG community. Since Pokemon has so many good searchers, you won't run four copies of a card unless you feel that you will need to use all four.
Pokemon is so very different from every other TCG. You need specific cards in your hand or you literally can't play at all (energy, energy acceleration, Switch, Rare Candy, etc), so it's a big game of chance as you redraw new hands every turn hoping you hit that required card. And the Prize mechanic removing random cards from your deck at the start of the game...
In some ways, the searching economy in Pokemon is way more interesting than that of Yugioh, because you always have to think about that spanner in the works that is the possibility of your search target randomly ending up sequestered in your prize pool.
@@MarkThePage Pokemon's clunkiness with draws used to be offset by appropriate clunkiness in attack costs. Check out the e-Series block (which never got independent play in real life) to see what peak Pokemon could be like. Many people also enjoy EX block, but it's a little more flashy than e-Series.
I once looked into Pokemon's history! Do the retro formats have an actual player base? The Gen 3 stuff had so many cool ideas, though I felt bothered by the ubiquity of Claydol (and I think Holon's Magneton? If I somehow actually remember that?). I think Platinum was the peak, and I actually built a Galactic deck though I never actually played in a tournament. Then HGSS wiped out all of the game's creative depth forever...
@@MarkThePageSome dedicated people still make tournaments for the Ex format, there was one a few months ago in Japan!
Personnally I love the old Pokémon TCG, I have been doing a Progression Series of it with 2 friends on Tabletop Simulator!
I no longer play Yugioh, and dont ever intend to return, but the "sLiFeR sLaCkErS EUAGH" earned my like on this video
You were never missed anyways.
@@BboySquidfoot wow dude. save some toxicity for your future grand kids, jeeze,
You'll definitely be back. No one quits 😂
Lmao I liked at the same point
@@weloveyugioh In this format??? I wouldn't be suprised if Konami puts the game down by 2026
The only issue is measuring the "disparity in power" between 2 handtraps. In that regard, Ash blossom and joyous spring can be used in three separate scenarios where the others can be used in 1 or 2. Such an array of usefulness makes drawing multiples less worrisome because you can almost certainly use it next turn. Belle and ogre has varying effectiveness on the deck you play against, so a more ubiquitous approach to stopping opponents is taken by using the 3 ash. This is no rebuttal to your claims, but merely something to further consider.
It's not so much about the number of situations a handtrap applies to, since every deck does everything nowadays, as it is the impact when something is negated. Negating a search or a graveyard effect is usually more significant than destroying a monster when it activates its effect on field. For that reason, I typically start with 2 Ash, 2 Mourner, 2 Imperm, since I know all three of those cards are nearly guaranteed an impactful negate every game.
This is Yu-Gi-Oh. What the hell is a "next turn"?
@BoP that's the problem, it's not an interactive game anymore. There may be two opponents, but realistically it's only a one player game now.
A wrinkle with that, is often games are frontloaded in the first few turns. Do you have the capability to use that second ash blossom if you didn’t draw an additional handtrap?
@@yurisei6732You don't usually use Ogre to destroy a monster, even though that can be good for cards like Albaz, you use it to negate permanent spells/traps or field spells. It outshines Ash there, as Ash only negates the search, but leaves the cards on the field for the next turn.
There's not nearly enough deckbuilding discourse that explore concepts like minimizing HOPT bottlenecks, flexible searches versus inflexible searches, Garnet and brick ratios relative to the "hardness" of them, as some can still be live if drawn if you also drew a way to get them into the GY or something, and concluding the discussion with the tacit implication that Forbidden Droplet is one of the best designed cards ever printed by letting you weaponize your bricks and duplicates as negates as long as you still have sufficient engine to play through what's left.
Good video.
Evenly Matched is a funny example of a card you sometimes really want to open multiple of
I love that you popped in here just to give this random anecdote, as if we didn't spend hours discussing the theoretical mathematics behind this script.
Same is true for Imperm and Veiler, they're both not OPT.
@@four-en-tee to be specific, it's that when you skip to end of battle to use the first evenly matched and it gets negated, the best card for you to have in your hand is another evenly matched.
@@MarkThePage They never expect the second Evenly
@@grilledcheezvirtualoniisan8670 dropping two evenly on my opponent makes me feel like Madara
I think you make an assumption here that is not necessarily true. Not every card is created equal. Some cards are so specifically strong in certain situations, you can't swap something of equal value. For example, in certain formats, turn ending handtraps like dimension shifter and droll and lock bird have no suitable substitute if you can run them.
Figuring out which cards have this much value in a given format is important, and staples do wax and wane from format to format since their effectiveness in a given format vary. Ash Blossom usually can't stop a snake eye combo, but its a better option than ghost ogre against it.
I definitely agree with your point of going over 40. Many decks have done this even as early as 2019 because of incredibly consistent redundant starters in the main and extra. It comes with the issue of the larger your deck is, the less you see your sidedecked nonengine into important matchups games two and three. Decks can still do well over 40 though, branded just topped at the NAWCQ with a 50 card list.
Actually, I did state that cards should still be run in duplicates if they are at least twice as useful as what you'd expect to draw instead (thus being worth losing a draw to access). In the example of a payoff matrix, different cards can be assigned different values for different situations. That can help in considering whether each individual card is useful enough to justify the fail rate introduced by running duplicates.
You forget he actually stated the initial assumption.
The initial assumption that it's actually more of a detriment (the -5 scenario) when drawing multiples than it's good counterpart (the multiple +1 scenarios)
Dimension shifter is a game winner alone.
Especially in MD when most players will just scoop against it. The scenario when you draw multiples might still be a -5 but drawing one is making any detriment negligible
@@MarkThePage "actually" 🤓☝
@@mauer1yeah. He just used a terrible example with Ash Blossom, which is the best card of the game. But the logic works.
I had a friend in school who was the comp yugioh guy and I remember him telling me to run 5 1-ofs that could stop any strategy and it genuinely helped alot
Im happy youre challenging some of the common misconceptions about game theory.
I ve listen to you. I changed my Shark deck in masterduel completely and I love the result. It is insane what hands I ve had. At least for this lower tier deck it helped alot. I run a 50cards deck rn and the consistency of drawing playable hands going first or second changed drastically!
I did this with a few cards in my deck. Jack in the Jand was important for me to get cards into my hand, but drawing more than one was a problem since it's a hard once per turn. Had to cut it to two so it lessened the frequency of duplicates. I also found board breakers a bit more effective by putting them to two so instead of many evenly matches in hand it would be two board breakers that focused on different things.
Main deck cards are really powerful, only extra deck size will be the determining limit. In a few years you'll go from two archetypes together in a deck to three of them in almost highlander looking decks due to other engines picking up the slack if you didn't draw cards from the other archetypes.
My decks are already there! Everything I build is such a mashup, and yes, the extra deck is EVERYTHING. I noticed recently that my deckbuilding revolves around how many slots I have left. It's all about extra deck searchers, and whether one can afford the additional slots required for Link climbs, and Xyz changes.
I have always loved what the OCG meta used to do. Two copies of every meta hand trap to prevent bricking on multiples. It’s really good in my opinion
Ocg is always more creative than the tcg.
You have no idea how happy this made me about my apparently odd decision to run staples at 1 copy (save Ash, which I run at 2, because it's the one I have 2 of). I myself have found that, even at a single copy, Ioften wind up seeing my stake cards in my opening hand anyway, so this checks out to me.
"No thanks! I'm too busy talking with the ladies to solve duel formulas." -Chazz probably
Actually, Chazz, Ojama Yellow identifies as male.
Thank you for making this video. The logic does work as essentially it's about maximizing every card possible within the first 5 cards in hand. The more plays we have available in hand, the better. Appreciate this a ton as a returning yugioh player. It's not about having as many staples/counters possible, but it's about having as many counters available. Having same copies doesn't mean all of them become LIVE.
plot twist, putting branded fusion to 1 just made us better deck builders
The story of Sapphire Surprise! I don't know if you've watched that video and its YCS vlog--when Verte was banned we thought the deck was ruined, but I wasn't ready to give up. Over three frantic days I found that Verte was actually never the best way to connect Branded and Tri-Brigade. To this day, in Master Duel I don't run Verte at all.
Sometimes, losing the "best" option can reveal that it was actually just the easy option all along. The easy option felt good enough, so we stopped looking deeper.
Mfw i find out that every card gets branded fusion
Running garnets at 2 might be better than running them at 1, especially if they're not completely dead in hand. Drawing into your one of is much more likely than drawing both copies of your 2 of, meaning you'll have a copy in deck to use.
THIS! I mentioned this in my Crystal Beast guide. Nearly everyone will say to use just 1 Rainbow Dragon, then complain about losing for drawing it. I myself tend to lose immediately whenever I'm foolish enough to side out the second copy!
Drawing 1 of 2 copies can hurt, but not nearly as much as drawing 1/1 of a vital combo piece. The concept of payoff matrices is very helpful for explaining these kinds of tradeoffs. (Every deck is different so everyone should make their own calculations here.)
Laurel in Plant Link is a recent example of this. Plant Link can be run at 60 cards and Laurel isn't that awful to draw because you often have lines where the special summon effect is live
See, this is why I run 2 Baller in GP PUNK. Ideally you dont want to hard open it, but its better to ensure there's still one in the deck.
My deck is a 50 card brew anyways, I have the space for a second copy.
2 union driver club
@@stardust9470 Laurel’s not a garnet, though, because you can just Summon her from hand if you draw her. The reason you’d run 2 Laurel is because some combo lines need 2-but improved combo lines have been found that need only 1, meaning you only need 1 Laurel.
You might helped me cementing my YCS HERO list as I am struggling with the 40th card. After this video I said “yeah fk it, one talent, one thrust, one lonely imperm. I am playing HERO, I desperately need more multiple-axis cards, flexibility and diversity.”
We have time until november, let’s test this list using this mentality for the non engine, which btw I absolutely agree with 😂❤
All I'm seeing here is that you made a 39-card Hero deck. HOW? I try to make my own every few months and it's always 80 cards, AFTER cutting! When you can run pretty much any quantity of search spells/Stratoses, how in the world do you decide on the right number!?
Hero is the best example to go over 40.
@@MarkThePage I am simply building it towards the maximum amount of USABLE engine which is 30 without sacrificing the grind game. So the standard 3 stratos and 2 increase for example. The rest is 10 non engine which all of them must be either quick play board breakers so that can be used go 1st or 2nd, or impactful cards that at least trade 1 for 1 with the opponent board. And as much as I play 3 talents, if I draw 2 OR THREE means I have dead cards in hand, and this deck to thrive in this format NEEDS all 6 six cards. Hence why also no handtraps cause make the engine too weak.
So as of now my 10 non engine cards are 3 eclipse, 2 droplet, 1 calledby, 1 Talent, 1 thrust, 2 imperm.
All and all we need a banlist, the gap between rogue and meta is INSANE 😭
Btw sorry for the yapping I love deckbuilding and HERO so much
@@YukiHeroYGO okay but two imperm i dont get cause that one is literally live all the time, not once per turn, until you commit, and even then, you can set it with the bonus effect too
@@snakevenom56 It’s not final xD but yeah I’ll probably find a way to slide the third in, it’s especially good cause doesn’t get calledbyed or procs Tactics
About the video tho, someday I am gonna roll at locals with a deck with like 12 different one ofs and I am sure It’ll be fun. No duplicates/highlander is such a fun experience! Even if it’s just the staples, the opponent will never know what to expect! Haha 😂
Good video. I literally went to every deck I have and took some cards down from 3 to 2
Thank You!!! I've been saying aside from 3 imperm you can run 2 ghost ogres and 2 blossom and 2 dd crow or even ghost bell and be fine. I usually only run 3 of w play starters and everything else is 2 of or 1 of and my decks function fine at tournaments. Yes starters are important and good to have two so you can go again on your second turn. But most things simply don't need to be at 3.
I didn't know why pros ran ratios of 3-2-2 hard once per turn hand traps until now. What incredible insight!
Your video opened my mind a lot. I used to play a deck with a lot of one card combos, so I was playing 3 of each. However, some hands were getting really bricky due to the hopt clause. I switched the least important ones to 2 and now draw multiple different starters (Each starter is technically an extender depending on the disruption used btw) and have more space for nonengine
Magic the Gathering has a mechanic called legendary creatures, which are creatures that you can't have more than one of on the field at once. If you have two legends with the same name, one of them has to go to the graveyard. Thus, the first copy is a stronger than average creature for that mana cost, but the rest are useless except as backups. Due to the drawback, magic players normally don't run more than 3 of the same legendary creature in a deck, even though the maximum allowed is 4.
Mtg goldfish can show that thats not true, core cards are 4 of, chord of calling decks dont need 4 of anything, earlygame legends arent worth the chance of drawing lategame, in any quantity. Its not because people are worried about flooding out in a format where one and often zero mana kills anything
@@kiraangle2823 There's exceptions to the rule.
Magic The Gathering still primarily draws its cards instead of searching them, and there are basically no cards you just don't want in your hand. It's a slightly different scenario. Though, I've actually been building my decks using the math and strategy behind this video for several years. I play mostly singletons for the sheer power of diversity, with crucial strategy pieces that I very much want in every starting hand at the max number of copies. Something like Sheoldred the Apocalypse is strong, strong enough to draw enemy removal out, which actually makes the legend rule almost a strength, as it encourages the player to not overcommit their resources and instead hold something back as a way to effectively neutralize your opponents' removal.
I wouldnt at all say its an exception to any rule. Just looking at goldfish show MOST decks running legendaries in their core, run 4 ofs. The exceptions are the Eldrazi and some decks that run 3 ofs to smooth out the mana curve (Control and zoo for example with phlage)
But Phlage and Ajani in boros energy, Sheoldred in mono black, Yawgmoth and Grist in yawg combo, karn in tron, Omnath and W6 in omnath, Ragavan in Zoo, Murktide in murktide, the one ring in every deck. Pretty much every instance in Modern, where legendary permanents make up part of the decks core, they run 4 ofs.
What youve described is the exception not the rule.
You got yourself an instant fan here.
Breath of fresh air, subscribed! Thank you!
In OCG or MD you would like wanted to have 2 Ash blosom if you are going second. 1 is for stopping enemy best card play and another is for defending Maxx 'C'.
Exactly, 2 ash isn't a dead draw. Considering how many one card starters most decks have now, you usually have room for at least 3 hand traps
Ash gives but she also takes away
Mostly takes away.
As Ash giveth, so she Taketh
Hash blossom, taco belle and toast ogre. The three stooges
being a mostly tearlaments player makes discussions about deckbuilding much more complicated because now you're not just worrying about cards you want to draw and cards you want to search, you also have cards you want to mill
I don't even play YGO, but I enjoyed your video, your humor, and the sharp wit and insight you offered. Suuubscribed!
I am learning a lot of this game thanks to your explanations and perspectives of playing. Thank you so much, the right amount of jokes make the videos worthy to watch repeatedly 😂❤
I remember moving my deck to 44 cards actually barely decreased the consistency for single but increased by percentage of 2 card combos. Overalls increasing consistency. This actually maths and makes sense
The thing specifically with Ash in MD is that Maxx-C is legal, requiring every possible out to be played. And the thing with Ash is the sheer utility of it as opposed to something like Shifter if you draw multiple. I know with almost certainty that I'll be able to Ash something that my opponent is trying to do on the next turn, whereas other handtraps are much more situational or are legitimately dead draws in multiples
Also, loved the Pliny the Elder reference lol
There are specific cards in your opponent that you have to stop that's why its relevant to put a multiple copies of the specific counter cards against your opponent..
For example, since I'm an ocg player I'll make maxx C a very good example, the only cards that can practically stop it are ash and called.. If you only put 1 of each ash and called, the higher chance you will be punished by your opponent's maxx C..
Ash Blossom does have a unique role here! I wonder what a payoff matrix would look like for Ash vs Maxx C... Because if you draw a counter but the opponent doesn't draw a Maxx C for it to negate, then you've wasted a draw. Then account for whether Ash/Called still has a compelling impact compared to the average draw of your deck. And the strength of an average turn from a 4-card hand vs what your average 5-card hand can achieve under Maxx C...
Floodgates simplify the game, but it's still so complex!
@@MarkThePage Depends on what the utility of those other 'counter' cards generally are. Something like Ash, if you can get to that turn 3 or 4, often don't feel that bad to draw in multiples, because its pretty easy to use them over multiple turns, and at least has *some* utility against every deck. As you yourself said, searching in modern yugioh is king. Draw your tactics, belle or ogre against the wrong matchup/without your opponent triggering it, its often dead for the whole game. Draw two Ash vs runick stun, you probably think "thank god, i might be able to stabilize and get a win." Draw one ash and belle, that ash better do its job cause it has one chance. What you've said is generally correct, but at the same time, lets not pretend why there isn't a reason that cards like belle, ogre, reaper, gnomaterial if you want to get silly, and even cards that are just hopt versions of veiler and imperm like mourner, tend to have to wait in line to get into deck lists vs Ash, veiler, imperm, and nibiru
Well we get maxx 3 soon, soooooo time for the maxx 3 mini game baby
In his video, MBT argues that Ash is often run because it's the most generally applicable, but it should typically then be sided out in favor of more effective counters. We also consider Ash to be "the card to run" because it's more eternal than other cards--but that's an OVERALL trend, not one which necessarily holds true at any specific meta.
"If you draw a counter but your opponent doesn't draw maxx C"
What a laugh bro.. XD
I understand your point of view, but I don't know if you truly understand how the meta works or not..
If possible, you can try the OCG format with minimal hand traps and see if what you tell is purely correct. And continue telling it once you got 1st place.
It's not just about maxx C, but to all 1 card combo decks today like fiendsmith, yubel and snake eyes.
I am very much on Board with this. I only play 3 offs in a select few Cases, like
some Fieldspells, my Blue Eyes, and selfsummoners like "Peten, dark Clown"
or "Destiny Hero Malicious". Otherwise i prefer the Animestyle, where they value
variety over multiples
I've learnt through trial and error how 40 cards aren't necessarily the most optimal. I was surprised to see how much better a deck ran with 50 cards instead of 40.
40 is consistency. 45 is good if you expect to use 20+ cards in a turn. 50 offers a respectable amount of utility, and encourages smoke screen tactics. And then there's those crazy people with 60 cards. Reverse consistency theory states that, if it is true that reducing your deck side increases odds of a specific draw, then the inverse can also be true, allowing you to run more garnets.
Thank you for making this video. I used to make this point, but off the basis of Yugioh being a game made for fun & not a game with inherently "good" or "bad" cards, just cards that work out in your favor in more or less of your duels
noted: one time per turn : reduce / multiple times x turn : keep, better if they are super useful / multiple uses (in your deck) like ash x lvl 7 monsters -synch + handtrap- is ok but other way run multiple other not once per turn hand traps you have more chance to use your entire hand no bricks
Besides Branded, Infernoble is one other perfect example of a deck that is better being played as (mostly) a singleton list, and can sometimes benefit from being a pile to avoid opening into spells you want Isolde to dump, or Museum to get to (to then allow the SS from Equip effect).
Sometimes it really is just infinitely better to have more variety in your single-use special summons and/or effects, than going 2-3x on certain things and limiting your ability to make plays if you open multiples.
I've unintentionally started lowering how many of specific cards I put into the deck.
for reference, I am a proud Skull Servant (or Wight) player. I run most of their lineup at 3. (there are exceptions depending on if I'm running Allure of Darkness or Hand Destruction). But I'm seriously considering putting Wightlord at 2 because you can only use both effects (discard from hand to mill X-cards equal or lesser than Wights in the grave, banish itself from grave to special summon a Wight to the field from graveyard.)
My most common bricks usually involve having one of each or more in my opening hand-- Skull Servant, Lady in Wight, Mezuki (along with cards I cannot immediately use at the time like book of life with no graveyard set up on either side, hand destruction when the opponent has an empty hand, etc).
however, Skull Servant and Lady in Wight are VERY necessary for the deck to work (namely because of Wightprince, Whightprincess, and Wightbaking). and I really like having Mezuki at 3 because it's not once per turn, him and Prince pair nicely with Burial From A Different Dimension.
Whitemare is a whole other can of worms because it's a wonderful recursion effect from the banish pile but it ONLY works in the hand.
Then other cards that I throw in are 2 each of Uni-zombie, Ashblossom, Azghoul mara (the level 8 one), and sometimes Jack-O' Bolan. Turns out I like Link+Synchro's with my Zombies.
Skull Servant is like SPYRAL: fun combos but they go through many cards, most of which will hurt to draw. It certainly feels like there's no right way to build that kind of deck. Some themes are simply made to be inconsistent.
@@MarkThePage lol, that's certainly true! but that's why we love our level 1 King with over 10K attack.
Nice video! You start realizing things like this when you start building yoir own non meta decks (since meta is usually good enough to just copy as is from the net).
For example a year ago I was building synchrons on master duel, and only source on yt for a competitive list is o37wolf exactly unless you want the Disneyland youtube combo with 15 bricks that works once every 4th game if the opponent has no handtraps haha, and his deck is a really good starting point, but it's hardly a solved deck so you have to experiment for yourself. As I started climbing ranks and playing more games I realized its wayy better to run over 40 cards because as long as you can get to speeder you can do full combo basically and it decreases the likelyhood of drawing your 3-4 garnets that you need for the deck to work and there is enough ways to search all the pieces that you need. also you are willing to run as many copies of cards that stop maxx c as are available in the format because if they drop maxx c you lose the game right there, and drawing multiple copies of cards that stop it is not the worst thing in the world.
Ngl When I first watched this video I was like "Nah this is insane play 40 cards for consistency or play 60 for pile" Then after a lost streak on MD I tested out your theory of playing more cards and one of hand traps or more hand traps without a once per turn and now i'm streaking in Master about to hit M1. My win rate from like 49% to 60% 💀. It worked extremely well because i'm currently playing Yubel, I was playing it at 40 which was okay... The problem is Yubel plays a ton of bricks, so if you off set the bricks with extra 1 ofs well you'll get less bricks. Anyway I wanted to shout out to you, you were right and thanks for making this vid.
An interesting question I ask sometimes is how many cards I would run if there was no minimum or maximum deck size.
This reminds me a bit of advice that's given to people getting into Magic: the Gathering. Or at least it was; I don't keep up that well with it anymore. They're different enough games that not everything transfers over perfectly (mainly in relation to velocity of play and quantity of search effects/tutors), but I think the main takeaway that's given to newer players getting more serious about deckbuilding holds. The key is about the *feel* of a card when drawn. How often is it live? How often do you need it to be? How often does it feel good to draw vs how often does it feel bad? If you find yourself not liking seeing it, back off a copy or 2. If it always feels great, run 4. It's something that you get a feel for in playtesting, rather than adhering to a formula or following common wisdom. I think yugioh player have some understanding of this, but frequently fail to articulate it properly. They end up getting lost in the weeds of the 3-of default assumption because they forget they can run fewer copies of something rather than trading it out for some other 3-of that bricks slightly different scenarios.
I feel so validated for only running one copy of each card in my favourite deck, finally
You still should run multiples of the most important cards! Even when just building for fun, there will be certain cards which are much more fun to draw.
You make me feel so much better about my Speedroid decks; always seems to be balanced between 43 to 47 cards and I hate when I get duplicate Terrortops or Taketomborg!
Speedroid is imo a deck you need to play at 47 at least because there is so much cards you don't want to draw duplicates but at the same time you want one copie and you have a lot of cards to search them. Also if you want to have room to play small extenders or generic hand trap, spells you can't have enough size in a 40 card deck with often bricking.
I use 2 ofs for my non engine. It feels better and siding is easy following the same. (Odd 15th card is duster usually.) Layered interaction is truly amazing and those 3rd copies become a pair of talents, droplet, etc
Mathematically it works very well
The math changes up when siding is involved, because there's less guesswork in the effectiveness of your cards. You'll likely be siding in cards so powerful that you might not mind drawing all 3 copies at once. And as for what to side out... that's an art of its own.
thanks to this video I'll go back to my old stupid plan of making highlander(limit one) decks of every archetype I like that can afford it
Great idea for a video, throughly enjoyed!
I like to use Emergency Teleport with Ghost Ogre.
Since Ogre can pop from the field emergency makes one from the deck live on the opponents turn, and can give you a level 7 synchro in a typical deck if used during yours.
Master Duel i find best is usually 3 Ash/veiler/imperm and 2 of anything else. Veiler and imperm aren't limited to once per turn so it's fine to have multiple, and ash is fine having 2 when maxx c activates on my turn and my opponent does things in theirs.
Dude, this was a great video!
Totally agree, some alien brains were arguing with me that running 3 copies of thrust and 1 of talents is more justifiable than running 2 thrust and 2 talents.
What I find beautifully hilarious is that when I got back into Yugioh during 2012, I hadn't played since my playground era of 2004. So I built a deck of singletons because the anime and all the starter decks I played when I was a kid taught me that that's just how yugioh players build their decks.
I learnt very fast how WRONG I was and stuck to a small core of 2-3 copies ever since.
Now, exactly 20 years since those playground days, it seems singleton HAS become the optimal way to build a deck! XD
I'm glad this video exists. I've gone over the math and the strategies in this video multiple times myself, and have been using them for the past several years. My game of choice is Magic The Gathering, so it's not exactly a 1:1 comparison. For example, in Magic we still mostly draw our cards, so there are no cards in our decks that we're ever upset to see in our opening hand. But, the power of diversity is pretty overwhelming, both in a vacuum and in the context of metagames. If everyone's running 9 4-ofs, there's just no possible way for them to be able to handle 24 different unique threats or answers, and that still leaves me with 3 4-ofs myself to form the fundamental core of the deck's plan. Even the minimum deck size thing that most players hold sacrosanct is not actually all that impactful by comparison to the advantage this diversity brings. MtG is in a state where it's a lot harder to build a strong deck this way, but with Yugioh it almost feels like it might be hard not to. Though to be fair my experience playing Yugioh is only a few months of Master Duel, around the time that Tearlaments were dominating. I was using a silly Dragonmaid deck, and I found it to be more consistent at 60 than at 40. I doubt it was a good deck, but it had a winning matchup against the so-called tier 0 threat of the time so... eh.
I have no idea how anyone builds decks in Magic when, due to having so many cards which are functionally nearly identical even in Standard, I feel like there's no limit to how many copies of each card you can really use. So it comes down to "what percentage of my deck do I want to be 2-mana attackers?"
I occasionally pop in and try building a Standard deck around a theme (because I'm a Yugioh player) and they're always 100 cards. I have trouble choosing between multiple cards of equal power levels and neither being searchable.
This actually used to be a great game plan back in the days. Half your Goat deck was limited staples anyways but the amount of limited cards made people account for spent power cards like Mirror Force and Heavy Storm. Also back in the Synchro era (Tengu rather than Edison) I was able to do this with stuff like the Plant engine where everything was at 1 anyways but there was little to worry about because Level 1 Tuners had Lonefire, 141, and Foolish to come out. Any draw order was fine and making hands work was more fun this way.
Nowadays I imagine one would be wanting to max on the Maxx C (or the mulchummy for TCG) and then draw hand traps at 1 or 2 so you can draw into the variety and use them before the end phase hand reset effect. Although this would only become a thing if the hand traps are valuable dropped in like step 7 of the opponent's combo when you finally draw into them...... probably not since OCG hasn't been doing it with Maxx C on their side.
There was this one time when a 60 card Fire Fist deck topped some event because they were like "I'd rather have the extra options and everything is just equally searchable anyways" and probably also screwed with "Grass is Greener" plays as a cherry on top.
I did find it funny that my branded one of for the "one of" for the master duel event functioned so well and the recursion was insane.
"More bricks than a crystal beast deck"
Oof. They can't catch a break.
Dang it... Somebody finally make a good video about YGO deck math...
I agree that sometimes 3 copy of once per turn handtrap such as Ash Blossom can be a dead draw when u open multiple of it... That is why you should consider make a play for, if you need to normal summon them (as link /xyz/ fusion material or even synchro tuner). Plays variant of handtraps also make crossout even stronger...
Also yep, forcing your deck size to 40 cards sometime become poison instead... Cz more likely to draw copy of your once per turn card or Garnet = less gas to play...
You still want to draw as many starters and extenders as possible, so 40 cards is ideal. You want to put in all of those cards and then start adding staples until you get to 40. Also a second copy of ash blossom can often be useful. You end up using one on your turn often enough. But yeah for searchable cards you can often do well with just one.
If you draw as many starters and extenders as possible, then you are drawing no hand traps, board breakers, or protection.
If we do start building the deck by putting in all the starters and extenders... well, for increasingly many decks that already puts you above 40 cards, if not 60 cards.
Every card, deck, and strategy is different. No one set of principals will amount to good advice for ALL of them.
@@MarkThePage You're right, if you add more starters in a 60 card deck you will achieve the same consistency. It does depend what you're playing. And these new decks have sooo many options.
Ah, so I've been building my deck right all along
Didn't expect Pliny the Elder and the values of the Enlightenment
In a format where maxx c exists at 3 copies, unless you’re a floo player or trap gimmick player etc.., you’re probably going to special summon on your turn. So you have to play the maxx c minigame before the real game starts. Ash has to be at 3 as well as called by and cross out at as many as legal. If you lose the maxx c minigame you probably lose completely 😔
Nice vid, I rarely run 3 copies of anything that is a natural brick alongside itself. Surprised this is such a foreign concept. Well done (something good actually came from an MBT video).
Do people not like MBT? You can probably tell from my style that I'm not a fan of YugiTubers in general (I hail from a _very_ different part of RUclips!), but his videos have seemed fine to me. He's a good, clear presenter.
@@MarkThePage I don't find him all that entertaining but there's really nothing wrong with him
@@MarkThePage See that's my problem, he's good at sounding like he knows what he's talking about, but as somebody who lives and breathes TCGs (too much for his own good sometimes) he just states things that are outright wrong, meaning he's either uninformed or misrepresenting the truth.
Though if you like him don't take my comment too seriously, I'm not the type who polices who people enjoy watching. I'll at least say he clearly loves the game (or maybe at least hates it less than he hates other things).
Biggest take away is this though, I liked your vid more than one of his, so if you think he's great, then that means I think you're even greater than him.
This seems to not take into account the reason we run max handtraps.
That some hand traps arent useable in certain formats.
Like you can use say ash, ghost, and effect veiler as 1 offs but if its a format where ghost isnt useful then why run it
I did take that into account! Notice the conditional: "IF there is not a huge disparity in usefulness between..." So just be sure to consider just how impactful each card is in relation to each other in the expected environment.
Even in a format where they ARE equally impactful, they may not be of equal impact in the comfines of a single game. They each do something different and might be useless if not drawn at the right moment. If you just play Ash, even if you risk duplicates, you can rely on it coming up when you need it instead of that only happening onxe every banlist
Thanks for validating what I have been preaching for years.
Reminds me of when I reduced 3 Piri-Reis Maps in my Exodia FTK deck to only 1 and that massively improved consistency, despite the card it searches (Royal Magical Library) being the absolute core of the deck. That's mostly due to the fact that if I draw it at any point other than my initial draw or the draw phase it's completely unusable. And since I often have to keep a chain of spell going this more often than not actually hurts my chances, despite the two extra copies giving me insane chances to get my library.
I run one of each ghost sisters in tcg because as you said, its once per turn and also, i got traumatized by having 3 ash 2 belle in one of my hand. My friend said that its kinda stupid, and on some level, i did agree, because at that time, the other ghost sisters werent that useful and u can end a turn with just an ash or an imperm anyways. But the fear of drawing 3 ash still haunts me.
Well, thats just in tcg, in md, i use 3 ash cuz of that damn roach
Ah searchers. That's why my decks fail...
Maybe I should try playing _into_ the meta instead of trying to work against it.
6:00 Best example is plants. Nowadays 60 is the standard because it runs like 4 cards you absolutely don't want to draw.
Going over 40 cards was hard for me but it made my deck so much more consistent. It’s a goofy Dino deck but I don’t brick
Iam not building Decks wrong. Iam building Decks with Restraint, Honor and Fairness in Mind.
The reason why ash blossom is a three of is because in a simplified gamestate you just win if they can't search
Considering I mostly play older formats, then I indeed should build decks as always because searchers are not that common.
Older formats also have a larger disparity between strong and weak cards. Never forgot that Pot of Greed and De-Spell came out in the same set. If you could make a deck with 40 1-ofs of equal power in those formats, then the advice in this video would be more relevant to those formats.
I get what your saying and it makes sense like if your gonna draw 3 cards that can only be used once per turn over drawing 3 different cards but you need certain cards in most matchups to even have a chance to interact with them. There is also a argument that even drawing multiple ash could come up or any card in multiples as the board state and players hands have so many combinations that, that brick of a hand is actually the right hand to crack that board. Also we change formats so often that no format is ever solved you could even say that realistically in the end playing 50 or even 60 cards is actually the correct way to play and the most optimal way to play then just 40. This whole card game is based on chance yes most of time stuff is guaranteed but those are just search's and lines of play, the first 5 cards you draw are what really decides who wins or loses and how you play them.
I've seen 2 of your videos (including this one) and I'm getting major MatPat vibes def subbing 😆
O to be so talented and easy on the eyes...
@@MarkThePage which you are, imo
I like this video its great to see some real math and teaching in a video
*Cries in Master Duel with Maxx C legal at 3*
FINALLY someone else gets this
If only it wasn’t such a pain to build decks be it physical or digital.
I enjoy the idea of only owning one deck and playing that one religiously. [But with Meta changes there will always be at least one type of deck you want to try out and then you have to grind again]
I can appreciate however that once you have the core of your deck, you don’t need anything else.
Imagine the hell this game would be if you had to level up your cards as well.
I swear it happens every other game where ill draw 2 ashes going second and on my turn draw the third
I use 2 copies for for my main hand traps and 3 for cross out because it’s basically negating so many hand traps that can stop my pain points
A month nooooo can’t wait for that video
I mean I more less already knew this. Especially since I am Duel Links player with smaller hand size and I have to always think "If I run 3 of these, how hard do I brick if I draw all of them".
It's why I use Card Calculators for looking at opening hands.
Hell, in Duel Links I was one of the people to predict the whole "You can play max amounts of cards in deck and still be insanely consistent" while people thought such things as absurd.
Having 3 copies of the same cards are usually reserved for "I need to have this card in hand in order to deck to function".
But back in the day it wasn't that abnormal to see card like Pot of Duality at 3. Duel pacing back then was just that much slower and you had a lot less searchers.
Great video, agree with this point when you are running less than 12 hand traps, but at the high hand trap counts, its hard to find replacements imo, correct me if i am weong though
Good point! For a deck built around a small engine, nothing does what they do for covering both turns. Personally though, being a combo player who loves engine piles, I have no experience with decks like that! I would rather mix in strategies which can break boards or set up disruption (though not every handtrap.dek will have good, synergistic access to that stuff). I see something like this happening with Snake-Eye players moving to Fiendsmith, running more in-engine cards now.
I loved this video. You deserve more, keep it up
The unexpected trump imitation was unexpected and had me laughing out loud. This was a very fun and informative video and the first time YT algo recommended. Definitely subbed! 👍🏻
Oh fuck yup! I’ve been doing this for about a year now and have amazing results with any deck. I recently made a crazy ass 60 card branded/predaplant/relinquished deck and sculpted it to perfection and somehow end on some pretty damn good boards. I like to think people get hyped up to see the relinquished or venom dragons get summoned instead of ol' meta
It opens up so many more possibilities and you end up getting really good at deck building and deck building becomes fun IMO and not chore-like. I spend hours fucking around with decks all the time in master duel while just chillin, watching a vid or listening to music. Idk I fuckin love yugioh lol
The best kind of deck! Until you have five different versions and can't remember which engines are in which.
This vids was very enjoyable i love deck as a concept percentages and what not. Ive always avoided duplicates personally for my cb decks as much as possible so i can bait more things. HOWEVER that doesnt acknowledge the garnets we run.😂
Ash may be not enough to stop most decks to make their combos, but a good player may use it on a key moment to disrupt the opponent's combo just enough so they can play through their end board. Cards like Ogre and Belle are best used against specific strategies and can't disturb your opponent's combo enough to the point of allowing you to make a counterplay in the next turn if your opponent's deck isn't particularly weak to those effects, while Ash is good against any deck, to the point of being more than worthy running the low risk of getting two copies in the starting hand, not to mention that if your deck have good 1 card combos getting multiple copies of the same card isn't a big problem.
there was a time that having different card have benefits, it was happened to me like this
Opponent: Adding Card from his Deck
Me: Discard Ash to Negate Draw
Opponent: Activated Called by the Grave to counter my ash.
Me: Luckily have Ghost Belle Negated Called by the grave.
Ghost Belle saved the day and ash blossom.
Thanks for the video. Just hoped to Yugioh, and still confuse about bthe deck building.
Thunder Dragon left the group.
I actually use many 2 ofs and 1 ofs with few 3 ofs. I think I'm pretty good at assembling ratios the problem is that some decks just don't have what it takes to compete, many decks just miss that 1 or 2 support pieces to be viable. It also gets harder to be creative with deck building since komoney likes putting so many stupid restrictions on modern cards.
you can also just make a deck with no handtraps but thats just me. sometimes my opponent has cards that do nothing because i aint using ash or something like that.
Good point! Triple Tactics and Crossout Designator become useless draws. One reason why I prefer board breakers.
@@MarkThePage i just play toons in real life :)
That’s why playing blues eyes right now at 40 is crazy to me, 45+ gives more consistency
I can't say I agree with not running multiples, but thank you for 6:10 ive been trying to say this since 60 card pendulums during toss format! Dilute your bricks if you have to run so many!