Thanks for the video. 👍👍Pretty brave of you to post on such a debated and contentious topic. Studying for my ham ticket and setting up my own antennas, I try to listen to both sides on the issue and look at the path chosen by various individuals. For the test of course, I'll answer using ARRL 'opinions'.
Good information so thanks for posting. I'm getting ready to set my first antenna, and this helps a lot. Even on the cheap, this looks somewhat expensive.
Just pay attention to classifieds, or if you know anyone that works in the electrical trade or electrical sales they might be able to get you some scraps. This is what amateur radio is all about, making due with what you have, yes it would be nice, but most of us, including myself, do not have the money to just go buy it all from the local hardware store. you get a great sense of price from making due what what you can find and get for cheap. Just keep your eyes open, to a normal person, that random chunk of copper or aluminum might be trash, but to us, its a ground bus! Be imaginative! and most of all have fun!
I've gone through it all over the last 50 years in radio and I am going to take a new approach to the whole grounding system issue . I am going to disconnect the coax from the radio during a storm . Not as much fun or impressive but probably the most effective . Nice setup though . I like the shack ...
Not only is it not the most effective, it's not even a good approach. Even if we imagine you're able to disconnect your coax prior to every storm - which is not possible - lightning travels several miles through air. Your few feet or inches of disconnect won't matter; however, a direct strike won't matter in either case. The static charge that can build up on your antenna as you're using it can easily rise to the kilovolt level. And there's a lot more than just this that I would have to imagine you know and understand after 50 years in radio.
@@MrMikesMondoVideoMy dad has been doing the grounding and unplugging coax and the radios from the outlet when not in use. He’s been doing this for over 40 years.
@@TheTacticalHouse That's nice. Tell me, how does that protect the radio when static charges build up on the antenna and then your dad connects the coax to the transceiver? Answer… it doesn't. How does that protect the radio when static charge builds up on the antenna during use? Answer… it doesn't. I'm sure your dad's a great guy, that doesn't mean what he is doing here is correct. It's amazing to me that people continue to use the failed logic that because something has never happened, it means it won't. If people were to follow the same logic, they shouldn't bother wearing a seatbelt because they'd have never been killed in a car wreck. I don't care what your dad or anyone else does. It doesn't affect me. It will, however, affect new operators who don't know any better, perhaps costing them hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars. If your dad has been doing this for 40 years, he should know better. There are multiple, and very different, reasons why you ground the antenna. Pro tip: There's a reason the NEC requires grounding the antenna and bonding all grounds to the service connection, and the NEC doesn't care about your equipment.
Nice ground system. Gas discharge lightning arresters on each coax where it comes into the house is the only thing you're missing. Those are also good at protecting against static charges from thunderstorms and wind. The RG58 to the discone might as well be a dummy load at 440 MHz. 11.2 dB of attenuation per 100 feet, plus the discone has basically no gain over a dipole.
Thanks for sharing your shack! Super useful video for people who are just getting started, like me. You say a few times that things aren't quite ideal; I think it would help out if you reviewed what you mgiht do differently, and explain why you made the choices you did. Sometimes it's money, sometimes it's physical location for space or ease of pulling, sometimes there are other issues ... You go into that a bit around 15:00 in the video, but I'd love to learn if you've got any regrets or wishes; or conversely thought something that you anticipated would be a problem actually worked out just fine. Also, can you tell me what kind of coax you're using at your antenna switches?
Much better if you have separate antena and separate coax n radio for each One radio and coax and antena for VHF/UHF 6 MTS ( there cheap radios for 6mts only) Tri-band antena and coax for 10 15 and 20 And separate antenna and coax for a dipole on 40and 80 mts Those connectors and switches are prone to screw up on SWR Plus make hold static current regardless the grounding system It’s about to keep ear on all frequencies at the same time, that’s the fun.
Hi there. I think you may want to consider the depth a tad deeper to stop the vermin from getting at your buried cables. Do not forget that rabbits burrow down several feet. So it would possibly be best to cover the cables with something hard to protect them. I would suggest something like a ceramic drain pipe that could be placed over the top with something hard on the underside to stop the critters from being able to chew through the cable.
Here's the bottom line in regards ground rods and bonding to existing ground rod and or new. Most ground rod installations I've tested fail and that includes those done by the power company. Commercial installations and military require ground testing to see if the connection to earth really exists. In many cases the earth ground you install could be better than the power company. Google, ground rod testing, for more complete information. Another alternative is bury a 2 by 2 ground plate and use WITH you exiting ground rod. This is what we have to do with unsuitable soil or sand.
Thanks for you video. I live in a house with copper plumbing to which I have grounded an Solarcon A99 using some RG6u that AT&T left in my attic. Is that a good ground, or do I really need to get an 8’ copper grounding rod? My SWR is 1.1 on 1 and 1.3 on 40. Should I also ground my LMR400 as it enters my house and my Uniden 980ssb?
Great job. What type of wire did you run from your bus bar to your radios? I assume that you ran a wire from the bus bar to the rear of your radios and any components that require/recommend. Usually it’s at the rear of the radio/component with a wing nut or nut terminal is what I’m talking about.
Does the length of the ground become resonant if too long? People often say it should be as short as possible but if your shack is on the top floor this can be difficult.
You have nice DC ground. What are you going to do about lightning and RF. You have a lot of bends! Each bend, each condition one wire to the next makes a difference. You need to think of a bend in the ground wire as a RF Choke!
"Any ground is better than no ground". Not necessarily. I had an old surplus RX "grounded" through a short heavy groundvto an existng 8ft copper ground rod, thinking much the same way. While I was on vacation my girlfreind at the time was watching the house & had my grass mowed for me. She told me the guy mowing let her know I needed to insulate that wire before someone got hurt! I told her that is ground not power then said "See" as I grabbedbitvand got thebheck knocked outbofbme. "Any ground" is not necessarily a good ground. Corrosion below the soil made it a bad ground!
Even with the best lighting protection a direct hit will fry anything connected. Still might get fried if you disconnect and the plug is still close to the unit. Lightning protection is more about saving the structure and people than the equipment.
Yes that would be ideal, however most people cant afford to sink that kind of cash into a grounding system on a hobby. there are many stations out there with no grounding at all. A proper RF and lightning protection grounding system can be incredibly expensive, and in most cases cost more than the rest of the station. Any grounding that a station operator can install that they can afford is always better than none at all. yes in a perfect world situation the system would be using heavy wide copper straps, and heavy braid. but in reality most do not have the access to the funds to install such a system.
Around here we must hide all the copper wire. A copper thief would eat your setup alive. I had to run all mine inside conduit or hollowed out wood post. BTW, I own a 12 foot long 5/8 drill bit for such purposes.
made them. cheap string of battery powered led lights. copper 1/2" end caps and a bunch of tubes with burnt filaments. drill a hole for the led, pins from 7pin tubes fit nicely in the end cap. super glue in place.
I find it funny how people want separate ground systems, talk code and all. So here is a thought for all. #1 Tower and Radio ground system (Call it RF, Static, ETC. Whatever) #2 House grounding system. Two separate systems create different ground potentials between them. (Fact not fiction.) So is there a bond between your equipment somewhere? Hum lets see. So you say they are separate, I say nope no way no how. Most people including HAMS forget one crucial thing. Each piece of radio gear that we own and that is connected to household power with a three wire cord just bonded the two supposedly separate ground systems. Your nice 120/240V Amp for starters. OR DO ALL OF YOU open up all of your radio equipment and disconnect the A/C incoming power ground and Isolate it from the station ground? Just wondering? Because the coax connected to that amp or radio is isolated right? So the two systems are still separated! nope you just bonded the two ground systems when you plugged in your equipment. If a Ham goes to the extent of creating a great grounding system for his gear, does one not create a super highway to ground? He is in turn creating the best path of least resistance to ground far superior to the homes grounding system. Fact not fiction. So the likely hood of an electrical short or failure within the home will then in turn skip the single ground rod and attempt to go through the path of least resistance and that path is through ones radio equipment to the super HWY built by the old HAM shack builder himself. Thus turning your gear into carbon partials after a nice warm fire warms the shack. Or lets the smoke out of all those nice internal parts and pieces. Not to mention the harmonics and interference from other household items such as those wonderful ballasts we all have including the new fangled drivers (Ballasts) for those nice efficient LED lights. So Just a thought for you all. Now I will take my lashing's and be belittled for having and posing a thought. Thank you for your time. By the way nice video, you did well. I am just wondering if you noticed any difference in RF interferences once you completed the grounding from before?
Rollyman375 I’m a new Ham concerned about proper grounding. I think what your saying is our stations need 1 & only 1 ground. Right? We should somehow bond our ham station grounds to the existing ground to the house? After marrying them together they will function as a single ground?
Im sorry man but you lost me way back there. Cant anyone explain to us rookies how to ground an dipole antenna so that us rookies can understand it? Ive watched so many vids about this now that im starting to think the answer is NO.
you dont ground the antenna itself. Think of a 1/2 wave dipole for example as a horizontal radiator where the second element becomes the counterpoise. this is a ballanced system. grounding the antenna itself will cause it to become un ballanced. if your radio has a 50 ohm termination for the antenna you then use a balun to match the ballanced 300 ohms of the antenna to the 50 ohm unballanced the radio expects. you can then feed the antenna with 50 ohm coax. the coax sheild itself can then be grounded as it is an unballanced transmission line. you can also ground the structure itself that the antenna is attached to, like a tower or mast for example. but not the antenna itself.
And new grounding grease, big mistake... Have you ever heard of a floating ground? I would definitely keep all of the equipment off the antenna lightning ground separate. eventually they all meet but the tripod stuff should be separate...
Your grounding system GROSSLY VIOLATES NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE AND IS DANGEROUS. 1. You are not permitted to run coax through a window frame- FIRE HAZARD .2 You are FORBIDDEN by NEC Article 250.24 (a)(5) to: a. re- ground at the load ( radio equipment) b. ground a normally not current carrying conductor ( radio cabinet/ chassis) You do both of those when grounding antenna coax then connecting it to a radio transceiver conected to the house electrical system. NOTHING in US NEC requires grounding radio equipment. It requires grounding towers, and grounding for static discharge.
Why would you show this … grounding system. Its a mess, amateur hour... more like how NOT to do your system. What a example you are showing. I would be embarrassed to show this. Its all thrown together mess.
FYI. Coax shield is a negative RF return in your radio and antenna system. It is NOT for lightning protection.
Dang, I didn’t know about the ‘potential’ issue with grounding, so thanks for posting. ⚡️
Thanks for the video. 👍👍Pretty brave of you to post on such a debated and contentious topic. Studying for my ham ticket and setting up my own antennas, I try to listen to both sides on the issue and look at the path chosen by various individuals. For the test of course, I'll answer using ARRL 'opinions'.
Nice setup!
Good information so thanks for posting. I'm getting ready to set my first antenna, and this helps a lot. Even on the cheap, this looks somewhat expensive.
Just pay attention to classifieds, or if you know anyone that works in the electrical trade or electrical sales they might be able to get you some scraps. This is what amateur radio is all about, making due with what you have, yes it would be nice, but most of us, including myself, do not have the money to just go buy it all from the local hardware store. you get a great sense of price from making due what what you can find and get for cheap. Just keep your eyes open, to a normal person, that random chunk of copper or aluminum might be trash, but to us, its a ground bus! Be imaginative! and most of all have fun!
I've gone through it all over the last 50 years in radio and I am going to take a new approach to the whole grounding system issue . I am going to disconnect the coax from the radio during a storm . Not as much fun or impressive but probably the most effective . Nice setup though . I like the shack ...
Not only is it not the most effective, it's not even a good approach. Even if we imagine you're able to disconnect your coax prior to every storm - which is not possible - lightning travels several miles through air. Your few feet or inches of disconnect won't matter; however, a direct strike won't matter in either case. The static charge that can build up on your antenna as you're using it can easily rise to the kilovolt level. And there's a lot more than just this that I would have to imagine you know and understand after 50 years in radio.
@@MrMikesMondoVideo tnx. I'll try it anyway
Yup, unplug and disconnect, job done.
@@MrMikesMondoVideoMy dad has been doing the grounding and unplugging coax and the radios from the outlet when not in use. He’s been doing this for over 40 years.
@@TheTacticalHouse That's nice. Tell me, how does that protect the radio when static charges build up on the antenna and then your dad connects the coax to the transceiver? Answer… it doesn't. How does that protect the radio when static charge builds up on the antenna during use? Answer… it doesn't. I'm sure your dad's a great guy, that doesn't mean what he is doing here is correct.
It's amazing to me that people continue to use the failed logic that because something has never happened, it means it won't. If people were to follow the same logic, they shouldn't bother wearing a seatbelt because they'd have never been killed in a car wreck.
I don't care what your dad or anyone else does. It doesn't affect me. It will, however, affect new operators who don't know any better, perhaps costing them hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars. If your dad has been doing this for 40 years, he should know better. There are multiple, and very different, reasons why you ground the antenna. Pro tip: There's a reason the NEC requires grounding the antenna and bonding all grounds to the service connection, and the NEC doesn't care about your equipment.
Nice ground system. Gas discharge lightning arresters on each coax where it comes into the house is the only thing you're missing. Those are also good at protecting against static charges from thunderstorms and wind. The RG58 to the discone might as well be a dummy load at 440 MHz. 11.2 dB of attenuation per 100 feet, plus the discone has basically no gain over a dipole.
Thanks for sharing your shack! Super useful video for people who are just getting started, like me.
You say a few times that things aren't quite ideal; I think it would help out if you reviewed what you mgiht do differently, and explain why you made the choices you did. Sometimes it's money, sometimes it's physical location for space or ease of pulling, sometimes there are other issues ... You go into that a bit around 15:00 in the video, but I'd love to learn if you've got any regrets or wishes; or conversely thought something that you anticipated would be a problem actually worked out just fine.
Also, can you tell me what kind of coax you're using at your antenna switches?
Very helpful. Thank you for posting. KE0EKB, Jeff
Jeffrey Thornton 2щ×:_^$^^'💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩
Thanks for sharing! 73's.
You should have a ground position for all of your coax switches. That way lightning can have a direct path. Otherwise you did a good job
I love those tubes hanging like Christmas lights! Do you light them up?
Much better if you have separate antena and separate coax n radio for each
One radio and coax and antena for
VHF/UHF
6 MTS ( there cheap radios for 6mts only)
Tri-band antena and coax for 10 15 and 20
And separate antenna and coax for a dipole on 40and 80 mts
Those connectors and switches are prone to screw up on SWR Plus make hold static current regardless the grounding system
It’s about to keep ear on all frequencies at the same time, that’s the fun.
Hi there. I think you may want to consider the depth a tad deeper to stop the vermin from getting at your buried cables. Do not forget that rabbits burrow down several feet. So it would possibly be best to cover the cables with something hard to protect them. I would suggest something like a ceramic drain pipe that could be placed over the top with something hard on the underside to stop the critters from being able to chew through the cable.
but rabbits have to eat too
Here's the bottom line in regards ground rods and bonding to existing ground rod and or new. Most ground rod installations I've tested fail and that includes those done by the power company. Commercial installations and military require ground testing to see if the connection to earth really exists. In many cases the earth ground you install could be better than the power company. Google, ground rod testing, for more complete information. Another alternative is bury a 2 by 2 ground plate and use WITH you exiting ground rod. This is what we have to do with unsuitable soil or sand.
Thanks for you video. I live in a house with copper plumbing to which I have grounded an Solarcon A99 using some RG6u that AT&T left in my attic. Is that a good ground, or do I really need to get an 8’ copper grounding rod? My SWR is 1.1 on 1 and 1.3 on 40. Should I also ground my LMR400 as it enters my house and my Uniden 980ssb?
Great job. What type of wire did you run from your bus bar to your radios?
I assume that you ran a wire from the bus bar to the rear of your radios and any components that require/recommend. Usually it’s at the rear of the radio/component with a wing nut or nut terminal is what I’m talking about.
Does the length of the ground become resonant if too long? People often say it should be as short as possible but if your shack is on the top floor this can be difficult.
So your gas pipes are closer to your incoming antenna wires than the antenna wires are to your ground rod?
You have nice DC ground. What are you going to do about lightning and RF. You have a lot of bends! Each bend, each condition one wire to the next makes a difference. You need to think of a bend in the ground wire as a RF Choke!
"Any ground is better than no ground". Not necessarily. I had an old surplus RX "grounded" through a short heavy groundvto an existng 8ft copper ground rod, thinking much the same way. While I was on vacation my girlfreind at the time was watching the house & had my grass mowed for me. She told me the guy mowing let her know I needed to insulate that wire before someone got hurt! I told her that is ground not power then said "See" as I grabbedbitvand got thebheck knocked outbofbme. "Any ground" is not necessarily a good ground. Corrosion below the soil made it a bad ground!
Do you ground your dipoles to earth ground?
Also do you feel safe enough with this setup to leave all your stuff plugged in during a lightning storm?
Even with the best lighting protection a direct hit will fry anything connected. Still might get fried if you disconnect and the plug is still close to the unit. Lightning protection is more about saving the structure and people than the equipment.
@@JoePJack1 Someone told me once that the best thing to do in a lightning storm is to unhook everything and sling the coax out in the yard.😀
11:43 why are there alkaline batteries hanging from your workbench? If they are even batteries, i cant see that well with the blur happening.
grounding of radios and such should be with wide braided copper heavy braid or with copper wide foil not wire.
Yes that would be ideal, however most people cant afford to sink that kind of cash into a grounding system on a hobby. there are many stations out there with no grounding at all. A proper RF and lightning protection grounding system can be incredibly expensive, and in most cases cost more than the rest of the station. Any grounding that a station operator can install that they can afford is always better than none at all. yes in a perfect world situation the system would be using heavy wide copper straps, and heavy braid. but in reality most do not have the access to the funds to install such a system.
just to let everyone know my friend disconnected his cable from the radio and the spark reached anyway and damage it anyway.
Around here we must hide all the copper wire. A copper thief would eat your setup alive. I had to run all mine inside conduit or hollowed out wood post. BTW, I own a 12 foot long 5/8 drill bit for such purposes.
Where did you get the tube party lights?
made them. cheap string of battery powered led lights. copper 1/2" end caps and a bunch of tubes with burnt filaments. drill a hole for the led, pins from 7pin tubes fit nicely in the end cap. super glue in place.
I see your ground rods run close to your gas meter. Is this advisable? One strike or arc could cause an explosion and fire.
this is possible but like he was saying you make do with what you have / price point
Unless you have the 3rd component ie o2 it will not start a fire.
'Basic'
Start new video : Amateur operators on 11 meters telling cb operators they are off frequency...
wouldn,t that cause a ground loop 73 de m7byf
I find it funny how people want separate ground systems, talk code and all.
So here is a thought for all.
#1 Tower and Radio ground system (Call it RF, Static, ETC. Whatever)
#2 House grounding system.
Two separate systems create different ground potentials between them. (Fact not fiction.)
So is there a bond between your equipment somewhere? Hum lets see.
So you say they are separate, I say nope no way no how. Most people including HAMS forget one crucial thing.
Each piece of radio gear that we own and that is connected to household power with a three wire cord just bonded the two supposedly separate ground systems. Your nice 120/240V Amp for starters.
OR DO ALL OF YOU open up all of your radio equipment and disconnect the A/C incoming power ground and Isolate it from the station ground?
Just wondering? Because the coax connected to that amp or radio is isolated right?
So the two systems are still separated! nope you just bonded the two ground systems when you plugged in your equipment.
If a Ham goes to the extent of creating a great grounding system for his gear, does one not create a super highway to ground? He is in turn creating the best path of least resistance to ground far superior to the homes grounding system. Fact not fiction.
So the likely hood of an electrical short or failure within the home will then in turn skip the single ground rod and attempt to go through the path of least resistance and that path is through ones radio equipment to the super HWY built by the old HAM shack builder himself.
Thus turning your gear into carbon partials after a nice warm fire warms the shack.
Or lets the smoke out of all those nice internal parts and pieces.
Not to mention the harmonics and interference from other household items such as those wonderful ballasts we all have including the new fangled drivers (Ballasts) for those nice efficient LED lights.
So Just a thought for you all.
Now I will take my lashing's and be belittled for having and posing a thought.
Thank you for your time.
By the way nice video, you did well.
I am just wondering if you noticed any difference in RF interferences once you completed the grounding from before?
Rollyman375 I’m a new Ham concerned about proper grounding. I think what your saying is our stations need 1 & only 1 ground. Right? We should somehow bond our ham station grounds to the existing ground to the house? After marrying them together they will function as a single ground?
Rollyman375 so would you connect ham ground rod and house ground rod together?
Im sorry man but you lost me way back there. Cant anyone explain to us rookies how to ground an dipole antenna so that us rookies can understand it? Ive watched so many vids about this now that im starting to think the answer is NO.
you dont ground the antenna itself. Think of a 1/2 wave dipole for example as a horizontal radiator where the second element becomes the counterpoise. this is a ballanced system. grounding the antenna itself will cause it to become un ballanced. if your radio has a 50 ohm termination for the antenna you then use a balun to match the ballanced 300 ohms of the antenna to the 50 ohm unballanced the radio expects. you can then feed the antenna with 50 ohm coax. the coax sheild itself can then be grounded as it is an unballanced transmission line. you can also ground the structure itself that the antenna is attached to, like a tower or mast for example. but not the antenna itself.
And new grounding grease, big mistake... Have you ever heard of a floating ground? I would definitely keep all of the equipment off the antenna lightning ground separate. eventually they all meet but the tripod stuff should be separate...
Sorry too many earth points. One only !!
You have no clue what you're talking about.
Obviously you don't want any common-mode current on your feedline, or that could give you "shack shock". 😏
73 VE7NDE
:-) the halicrafters hum because of the poor ground system...
Zoey Michael
nope , bad caps in the rig
Your grounding system GROSSLY VIOLATES NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE AND IS DANGEROUS.
1. You are not permitted to run coax through a window frame- FIRE HAZARD
.2 You are FORBIDDEN by NEC Article 250.24 (a)(5) to:
a. re- ground at the load ( radio equipment)
b. ground a normally not current carrying conductor ( radio cabinet/ chassis)
You do both of those when grounding antenna coax then connecting it to a radio transceiver conected to the house electrical system.
NOTHING in US NEC requires grounding radio equipment. It requires grounding towers, and grounding for static discharge.
I do not live in the US and am not governed by the NEC.
Why would you show this … grounding system. Its a mess, amateur hour... more like how NOT to do your system. What a example you are showing. I would be embarrassed to show this. Its all thrown together mess.