Fuel DUMP over Los Angeles, WHY?!
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
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Why would a Boeing 777-200 decide to Dump Fuel at low altitude over a heavily populated area in the south central part of Los Angeles? In todays episode I will explain a bit about fuel dumping, compressor stalls and the environmental impact of dumping fuel at a too low altitude.
As always I would love to discuss this further with you in the Mentour Aviation app. Use the FREE download link below and register for the chat. See you there!! 👇
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A special THANK YOU to the channels that was featured in todays video. Use the links below to watch the full, awesome, videos!
Malttouch (Engine surges)
• Swiss Air A330, Having...
CBS this morning (Fuel dumping incident)
• Video
Plane spotting Aviation (777 dumping fuel)
• Video
PlanespottingBerlin (B777 landing)
• DELTA Airlines Boeing ...
I'm am really proud for the acknowledgment of Captain Joe and Blancolirio. I appreciate a lot how you guys cooperate and recognize the work of other people. After all we're in it together. My compliments to you Peter
Thanks for the shout out Petter, you are doing a great job over here, and have this YT thing dialed in! I'm very impressed with your smooth delivery without jump cuts and out takes for mistakes as I'm so prone to do. I have a lot of questions for you and about the industry on your side of the world...we should do a collaboration via video conference. Juan.
Love that you guys are sharing the love. Enjoy watching both your videos, very professionally done no matter the way the videos are edited. Greetings from the Netherlands!
Ha! I, too, am always impressed by fellow RUclipsrs who are such natural speakers, as I can barely string together a coherent sentence (and English is my first language)! But well done to both of you for your professional content, as always.
My 2 Fave RUclipsrs!
Thanks guys... it's rare to be a truth teller and you both are usually dead-on accurate!
love both your styles ... either keeps me captivated , watching and listening ....... and learning ....which is quite an accomplishment for a self ascribed know it all such as me
blancolirio Yes! You two should collaborate on major incidents. It would be awesome to hear both your perspectives.
I've made it to 74 years old thinking pilots dumped fuel to reduce the fire hazard when making an emergency landing. The landing load explanation would never have occurred to me. Thank you!
it would be true with they lost a landing gear.. then they would dump it because of fire risk
Coming down hard and collapsing landing gear because of being over safe landing weight can be a fire hazard. So you were pretty much right all along. I won't even call you gramps because I am 70. Lol
@Quack Quark Same here.
A near empty tank with fumes inside it is more likely to explode than a tank full of gas.
@@dannydaw59 you're right it would explode easier but the more fuel spreading around the worse the fire if it does catch. Either way you're screwed.
That was 3in1 Captian Joe, Blancolirio and Vasaviation!
really cool of him to share that
I heard that there was a Ryan Air 737 following the 777 trying to scoop up the dumped fuel..... true?
lmao
@Fao Gazy Since it would have taken minutes for the fuel to reach ground level, why didn't the teachers just herd them indoors. How dumb to people have to be?
@@Ymir- Settle down over there.
It’s true
@Foa Gazy Why do you think I am joking? And you're right, the school should be billed for that fuel, its not funny or cheap.
In the 1980's I lived on a farm right next to an RAF base where they flew the old Victor tankers,they used to dump fuel on a fairly regular basis, and at low altitude, I knew one person who had an orchard destroyed by the jet fuel and on occasions we had fuel land on our land to the extent the soil smelt of kerosene, also apparently the tanks on those victors leaked.
All airplane tanks leak. 30°C to minus 25°C is too much
RAF Marham? - I lived there from 1980 - 1983 - we used to play with your hay bails in summer!! So wasn't just the Victors destroying your property. The pilots kids did too!!
@@BunkSpubbler Yes that's the place, Not just the kids but the territorials also thought it was their play ground, out taking care of rabbits one day when a bunch of them tried to take me prisoner, I pointed out that I was the only one that was not firing blanks and that they were trespassing, shortly after a chain link fence went up around the base.
Chrisklown
I‘ts even more than that:
40° C regularly in Florida in summer and -60° to -65° C at cruising altitude. That‘s easily a temperature span of 100° C.
But since those are the normal environmental conditions an aircraft is operated in, all materials used should be fine with that and a security margin of perhaps up to 50%.
all you would have had to do is send them a letter of the damage to property and the military would compensate you :)
Thanks for giving Juan and VAS a great shout out. Juan does a great job of telling it like it is and VAS is great at getting that awesome audio out so quick.
I hate questioning judgment calls of people handling an emergency situation with 20/20 hindsight they didnt have the luxury of, especially when its a generally positive outcome.But this isnt a good look at all.
It appears to be a non-critcal malfunction (Mentour's take) resulting in reduced thrust in one engine when its an ETOPS certified plane (and given it was crossing the Pacific, I'm assuming ETOPS certified crew and maintenance) so flying for an hour or more and landing on a single engine is considered 'safe enough'. They were higher than the fuel dump altitude of 6000' at the beginning, were specifically given an opportunity by ATC, but still went for the overweight landing option. I get the crew may have perceived it as a higher threat then it seems now looking back, which would explain the going right back in, but then that's the maintenance departments problem for the overweight landing inspection and repair. If the situation stabilized and they decided they needed to dump fuel, a climb and going to a dump area was an option. A takeoff with an engine failure after V1 is doable, so climbing even while heavy with fuel is doable. Something doesnt seem right, and I'll be waiting on investigation results.
Thanks for giving us your take on it, Captain.
Also, love the shoutouts to VASAviation and Juan Brown. When it comes to level headed takes on aviation, and aviation content in general for that matter, you and Juan are my favorites.
From what I understand is that ATC needs to know that pilots are dumping fuel so that they can keep other aircraft away from the fuel being dumped.
yeah, any sort of combustion engines intaking aerosolized Jet fuel will not function properly. it make it burn too rich, which can overheat, or .. in some cases, flame out due to not enough oxygen.
I am not a pilot but it has been interesting over the last couple years since retiring, learning more about how commercial aviation works. I give you kudos for shouting out for Captain Joe and Blancolirio., both channels have good information along with VAS. I am under the impression from all I have learned that once you pass V1 and V2 and rotate/take off you should be able to still climb and maneuver with one engine. So why the big Emergency? Shouldn't they have been able to maintain 8000' or even climb and go to a designated dumping area then proceed to vector to land?
Kindly mentioning other great channels makes your own channel even greater. Hopefully that fuel dumping decision is proven having been wise and the crew doesn't get in trouble.
Dumping it on the city? It isn't. The 777 can land at maximum takeoff weight in 6000 ft on one engine. The runway was 12,000 ft long. They had plenty of time to dump away from the city, and/or above 6000 ft minimum legal altitude, and they didn't need to do it in any event.
The crew will be fine. The lives and safety of the passengers override some “rule” set by federal regulators. If he needs to dump fuel, he dumps fuel. Now, should they have dumped where they did? Of course not, but still.
@@Jack3md yeah, that's why I hope there was a reasonable reason other than sheer distraction. Depending on what was going on on ground, things could have turned fiery.
Fire 'em, strip their licenses, unfit for duty. Lifetime ban.
They didn't even need to land. The compressor stall was fixed in a few seconds. No emergency.
I was on a plane that shortly after take off had to make an emergency landing because a passenger freaked out. We spent about 10 minutes circling over the sea near Athens dumping fuel. She was "de-planed" by a few Greek Army guys with machine guns after she initially refused to get off. She had punched a stewardess out, slapped a passenger who was sitting next to her and tried to open the emergency door.
Yep. All planes are going to be retro-fitted with something called PESS to avoid such problems in future.
PESS is an acronym for 'Passenger Ejector Seat System'. It allows pilots to jettison seats (and their entitled/ uppity/ drunk/ violent/ abusive/ annoying/ suicidal/ explosive-vest-wearing occupants) in mid-flight.
Perhaps. ;-)
I hope she was forced to pay for the dumped fuel afterward and banned from flying for life.
Elli P Wouldn’t that be a great invention! Personally I think banning alcohol, and persons under the influence of alcohol, from flights would go a long way to solving this problem. They won’t do it because airports and airlines make too much money from alcohol sales, even though it clearly puts crew and passenger safety at risk.
@@tjfSIM As long as Nancy Pelosi is Speaker of the House, there's gonna be alcohol on airplanes.
Was she Italiani?? Drama, drama!!
Secondary concern of low flight level fuel dumping as well as notifying ATC, is a major safety concern. Fire, or worse, a fuel-air explosion. Before the fuel evaporates, it oxidizes, it is at this critical state where intrusion into the dump by another aircraft can light the place up. In the Navy, bingo levels are calculated on a per-mission basis. You simply cannot dump fuel into the approach pattern for that very reason. Most often these aircraft stay high and/or dump to the right of the boat away from others in the slot. An Aircraft that flies into its own fuel dump with a compressor stall could be disastrous.
The Fuel would be too Cold to light. Kerosene/Diesel needs to be heated to light off.
@@Len_M. Sparks...tend to be hot.
conrad jelinger - can you cite a single incident in the last 100 years of a fuel-air explosion that is the result of an aircraft flying through the fuel-dump mist of a plane ahead of it? LOL.
F.O: HEY CAPTAIN! We are too heavy to land
Cap: Start dumping fuel ⛽️
FO: Should I notify ATC so we can get vectors fir dumping fuel over the Pacific Ocean a couple of miles away?
Cap: No. Just dump it over the ghetto of Los Angeles. Nobody will notice
While returning from an extensive training flight in a C-119 [yep, long ago], we approached over South Chicago. Crew Chief ...of WWII and Korea battle hardening, opened the side door, while standing in the positive air stream, poured out the five gallon bucket filled with relief waste. He told us later when we asked, that he "was bullied in that area while a kid growing up".. He "gets even on every flight".
They weren’t too heavy to land.
@MG Stevens Good story but I doubt its true..if it is, there's a good chance that Crew Chief got slapped around the face by a gusty turd, well before it fragmented and descended, to land on a crack dealers BBQ !
@@Blogengezer apparently his brain also got hardened during the war, because only a moron would do something like that. How's dumping waste on random people gonna get you even? Sounds like he was a complete jackass.
They noticed
This will fuel the chemtrail folks for years to come.
Unfortunately, people who aren't aviation enthusiasts are already really nervous about fuel dumping. This isn't going to help.
From a yt channel with no content - suspect.
Chemtrails is a us air force term they used to teach as part of their training curriculum.
There is no use denying chemtrails anymore when it has been admitted to by the us gov, cia, universities and other mainstream sources. Weather modification has been used for decades and is now being controlled by global entities under the guise of the un.
The quicker everyone wakes up to who is manipulating our weather the better off we'll all be including our planet.
Don't you coincidence theorists think it is odd that since the 70's, the controlled media, gov and academia have prepared a credulous population for -global warming- climate change?
definitely! half of LA will turn gay now... no, wait. the not yet gay half will turn gay too. gayLA. /s
Can we take up a collection? FeuerFrei needs a new tinfoil hat.
@@howlinsg1968 "Coincidence theorists" - That's a good one! I've been trying to think up a term for those who dismiss so-called "conspiracy theorists" because they (the ones dismissing) can't handle the truth. I'm gonna start using it.
It was nice to hear the acknowledgement of Blancolirio, That's been a great channel.
He seems to be a great guy!
@@MentourPilot And he flies the 777 😉
Any chance of a collab with Juan like you did with Kelsey 74Gear?
@@nightflyer3242 I would vote for it too👍🏼! He has a huge background, former military pilot now flying the 777. And Peter and him both have at least another common point: they are very reactive on the events. Something happens and... HOP! We have a video from MENTOUR and BLANCOLIRIO. Impressive...
Surprised at the captain joe one though since captain joe hates mentor
Thank you for the generous to credit Juan Browne @ Blancolirio, you are both brilliant RUclipsrs.
Thanks for weighing in on this, Petr. I shared this with some friends that were looking for clarification on this situation.
This is the only channel where, even though I may not like the adverts, I never fast forward past them. 👊🏻
juan`s channel is absolutely amazing
👍 He reports on lots of things and without sensationalism of the news channels.
A somewhat similar incident you could compare this to is PAL113 at the same airport around Novemer last year. A B777-300ER also had a compressor stall but landed overweight since no dumping was done. Great explanation on this one!
Thanks for being so professional while explaining things. Love your videos!
does anyone else think this guy has like the most awesome intro
Couldn't agree more friend!
It’s all due to my awesome graphic designer Dom 👆
@@MentourPilot 😁
@@dominicMcAfee 🤔
Because politeness is key in the service industry 😉
In you’re videos I’m always waiting for “ but what you have to you have understand is “😂😅 on another note, thank you for you’re videos they really help not only me but the whole community
Thank you. As you said, the investigation will tell a lot that we just don't know. Something else had to have gone wrong as they prepared to land. It seems crazy that professional airline pilots would dump fuel low over a large city full of people when there was the option to fly the same distance while dumping over Santa Monica Bay and landing 7L instead. Dumping fuel on people, especially children, is awful but there just has to be more to this story than what everyone is carrying on about...
One thing after another happening in the aviation world at the moment. Thank you for keeping us so well and accurately informed.
Thank you once again for the insight into this issue of fuel dumping over a populated area.
Happy New Year 🎊 to you and your family!! 😘from NM
Man so many good channel recommendations...
However, you missed one for jet engines... Agent Jay Z!
Not affiliated to the Toyota 2JZ engine, unless you put a jet engine in that Supra :D
Good explanation, I hate whenever reporter say false things about Aviation then making the pilots and company in troubles. Thank you for explaining and the pilots did a good job.
Another great video, as You always put up. Current Events videos like this 1 are spectacular! Keep the awesome coming!
Great explanation again Petter, you do such a fantastic job of explaining technical issues to your audience very well. Thanks 😎✈
Thank you! That’s what I’m trying to do.
I like the way you say “it’s going to be Interesting to hear why they did this” as in: this will be a tough one to explain!
Thank you! I saw a news article and have been waiting for this video 👍🏻
Back in the day some engines had a P3 valve mounted between the back of the compressor and combustion chamber to relieve pressure mainly on engine start. Future engine redesigns including
repositioning the inlet guide vanes made the P3 valve unnecessary. That being said compressor stalls do occur because air moving through an axial engine has inherent complications, but they are rare. Good vid....
These pilots told ATC they were NOT “critical”. And they were asked twice if they wanted to dump fuel and both times they said they did not. This low altitude dump over a populated area is inexcusable.
Exactly
We shall see what the FAA say but I also find it strange
fuel dumping would make a smoother landing as the 777 is made for more long-haul flights, probably needing more fuel. idk about where it was going but fuel dumping would be a good choice for an emergency landing
Mister Ed over the radio they sounded confused, little Cmr, eager to get down as soon as possible with out thinking the whole process through. I think they will both need quite few hours back in the Sim. This lack of awareness is not something I would expect from professional pilots
Really appreciate you giving a mention to my other favourite avaition channels. Big respect Sir, I enjoy your videos. Thank you.
Once again, a fair and balanced summary; a much appreciated style, especially compared to some media sources. I now recommend this channel when any airline/aircraft news comes up. Hey, no pressure Petter😉
Love the way you handle your fellow youtubers. With respect and care. Just love that. A winning way to go.
Petter/Mentour,
Great video and explanation of the LAX B772 fuel dumping situation - thank you! And thank you for referencing Juan B at Blancolirio who is a great pilot and great guy.
God bless
Paul (in MA USA)
Juan is great. Glad you mentioned him.
Thank's again, for taking the time to answer questions about current aviation events.
Thank you for all the background information on fuel dumping.
Your explanation is very much apppreciated👍
Thank you! That’s what I wanted, to explain some stuff around it.
"L.A. Fuel Dump!" sounds like a cool name for a rock band.
Good one ! LOL !
Opening act: The La Brea Tar Pits.
It's always nice and interesting to hear your informed perspective on these aviation incidents. The media as usual tends to blow it out of proportion and report false info.
I am glad to see you and blancolirio interacting. I enjoy your channel, his channel, and the VAS Aviation channel. One question, though, and it wasn't obviously shown on the VAS channel. I am familiar with LAX. Have done spotting there for 13 years at the InNOut burger. Planes that depart LAX on Runway 25R go out over the ocean and then are vectored onto their assigned headings. My question is how soon were they vectored back? If the were at 8,000 feet over the ocean, there should have been no issue with dumping fuel. They could have flown in a wide circle until dumping was completed and then vectored back. If it had become a dire emergency while offshore, the airport could have shut down and re-routed them to land on runway 6R or 7L. I guess that probably would have been the last-case scenario since so many other planes would have been affected. I guess it will all come out in the investigation.
As always, excellent explanation!
Thank you! I do my best
As always, he is doing absolutely fantastic :)
Mentour Pilot I would ride in any A/C you were flying. Having been involved in the aviation training and flight simulator business for over 40 years, I admire your in-depth knowledge of this subject...have you done any videos on the subject of CRM?
I worked the flight deck of an aircraft carrier during my time in the military. I was amazed at just how much fuel gets dumped before landing. Literially raining fuel down on us as we worked. Goggles and clothes covered. Didn't want the aircraft landing with a full bag.
Yah but there is a difference between being on an aircraft carrier where you signed up for some risk and being a child and having it showered on you while playing on the jungle gym.
They don't care at all about dumping all that fuel into the sea? Seem like the military gets away with everything.
@@TacticalSandals Agree, not disputing that and I didn't want my comment to come off that way. I was simply something else entirely.
@@Secret_Moon They dumped more than fuel into the sea. All trash was dumped into the sea as well. I do believe that has changed in the last few years, but other countries still dump both trash and fuel at sea.
Wow ....evryone on here thinks dumping a few thousand gallons of kerosine is some kind ov environmental / health issue disaster ... Far too many people think its some sort of awful thing .... It actually does virtually nothing to the environment ... It eventually evaporates and goes away and it is not at all hard on humans unless you swim in it or drink it
Awesome content love the channel totally professional I also listen 2 the content Juan has to offer also very professional I enjoy listening to both of you again great content
So great @memtour pilot. Your videos are so informative keep churning them videos.
5:08 212 thousand pounds, not 212 tonnes. A full tank is 300 thousand pounds so they were quite far from max fuel load.
Blancolirio is excellent!
That sounds more like it was trying to work out how an aircraft with an MTOW of like 250,000 kg and an OEW of 135,000 kg was supposed to pull that off. Probably the better part of 40,000 kg or more for passengers, crew, baggage and various in-flight consumables (Including the ~1,200 litres of potable water) etc too.
Excellent content, as always. Thank You.
Thank you! Glad you liked it!
A bit off topic but I’m really liking this different video background. Also enjoying the videos playing on the Mac, it works really well. Good work Mentour!
Mentour, so awesome you gave a shout out to Blancolirio!! I have followed him for several years and he is awesome. I have followed you as well for the last couple years. You two are definitely the "Go To" for commercial aviation information. Always clear, concise and informative in your content. Would love to see you guys get together and do a collab video sometime. Keep up the great work! Love your channel!
Thank you for your take!
Great video Mentour Pilot! Also - could you do a video about whether hail-stones can cause dents on the tops of passenger planes, and on the wings etc? Thanks!!!!
Nice recommend for Blancolirio! When I want straight info for aviation stuff, you two are the best.
You are just a great man to being able to refer some other youtubers cahnnel. This is a thing that nearly none of youtubers do.
Lawsuits now filed against Delta by several school teachers claiming health and safety related damages...
25R at LAX is 12,000 ft and the 777-200 can land above Max Landing Weight so no need to dump...
lots of questions ...did the crew initiate the dump at higher altitude ??.. then got distracted ( no auto shutoff of the dumping system on the 777-200) by emergency checklists and procedures during the approach ?
Other than the dump it seems like ATC and the crew handled this very well
Looking forward to hearing more about this.
cheers
Might be an older pilot, used to the 747 that do need to dump fuel in cases like these.
Regardless of protocol, the captain makes all decisions, and can dump at that altitude if he needs to. Pilots don’t sit and flip through FAA rules during an emergency. Safety and lives of passengers overrides everything.
Thanks for the Blancolirio shout out! He's awesome!
Isn’t he!? I like him to
Thanks for the should out! Keep up the good work.
@@MentourPilot Hope you can offer Juan some advice regarding your successful outcome regarding RUclips's algorithm for determining a video's monetization category.
'Users/consumers' appreciate your hard work in your efforts to educate us using the FACTS!
You should be rewarded for your time and expertise.
Thank you,, fantastic job explaining the dump
Amazing, was waiting for your video about it! Thanks Mentour
I think we will hear that something unknown happened to cause this extraordinary event. I'm sure the crew were well aware of the altitude limitations and the ramifications of the action they took. It is really bizarre that they failed to notify ATC, though. Unless they have compelling explanations they are in big trouble.
Agree
I think they made a mistake. Plain and simple, human factors are 90% of the reason for incidents of this sort.
@@colinsouthern I agree that was probably a lapse of wording there. It's never that simple if we are talking about the various decisions and various procedures that had to happen here for this incident to occur.
But I do want to state, simply, that most aviation incidents are human error. Even with others to gaurd against that, you can look at most aviation disasters, and human factors (something anyone that's flown is WELL versed and taught in) play a significant role in aviation incidents. If I were a betting man, that's where the smart money would go.
I think they were task saturated, went through the procedures and honestly were so focused on the issue, they didn't necessarily, critically think about the fuel dumping procedure and their altitude. I think after an investigation, this will be chalked up to pilot error.
@@colinsouthern In plain English: plants, animals and little children below are not paying customers, so sprayig them with poison can be "admirable"!
@@colinsouthern The issue is that all the way through the issue they were downplaying it. They mentioned they had a compressor stall but it was under control. They mentioned they did not want to dump fuel. They initially waived the roll of emergency trucks then reluctantly asked for them to be rolled. All was pointing towards an emergency that was under control and a landing weight that wasn't a problem.
Then, without even mentioning it let alone asking for permission they started to dump fuel on final. It would not even be long enough to dump sufficient fuel to significantly decrease the weight, that would take half an hour not a couple of minutes.
So they really will have to come with some explanation. Had they decided that it was better to dump fuel anyway, they should have continued and passed over the airport back to sea and dump it there, then fly the same track back to the airport to land.
As always, excellent video!
Thank you! I’m glad you liked it!
Thanks for your interpretation and love listening to you. A gracious presenter, referring two other YT channels although you covered the topic well. Your wife made an excellent decision to share a life with you. Be well and stay safe. ❤️✈️
I appreciated the fact that you neither whitewashed nor immediately criticized the actions of the pilots. They made decisions that will be analyzed by experts; wait until then to make judgments..
another very infomative video fr us armchair pilots,love it.Bill from Ireland
Thanks! I’m so happy to hear that you like my little videos
“Fully tanked” 😂. That’s Swedish English for you. Jag är med dig brorsan!
Well, I was always under the impression that the flight crew wasn't supposed to be "tanked" when they were flying the aircraft. :-)
Swenglish
Guessing he means fully fueled, lol😂
Means p@@sed up in England being tanked up lol
In Swedish too, but it depends on the context. :)
What's confusing is AT asked them if they were going to do a fuel dump and they decided not to at first instead asked for vectors into the pattern the final AT exchange with them was cut off so it's unclear why or when they decided to dump so late at much lower altitude while in a committed pattern with clearance to land.... they do have some explaining to do as they could have circled a little longer or opted for a wider approach
Thank you. The clearest explanation I’ve had on the fuel dumping yet.🇬🇧
Great video and nice change from the living room
Yeah, it was time to shake it up a bit.
A little Kerosene should improve the air quality in LA..
Good. Rude ppl there anyway. Dump it!
@ Probably worst place to drive, even on a motorcycle.
Great Comments, love your current events comments, Thanks!!
(My opinion) I believe the flight crew is well trained and informed when and how to dump fuel and most likely was in a situation that required a immediate fuel dump ! I figured we all should wait and get the crews story when they make their report !
@Mentour... All the aviation experts say THE reason for reducing landing weight is to protect the landing gear, probably very true, but the 777 you show landing is lowered on the tarmac incredibly gently.
I would imagine another significant never mentioned reason for reducing landing weight is the stopping distance for the aircraft, it's going to be considerably further.
Well, the runway they were landing on was close to 12000 feet, so that wouldn’t be an issue.
But yes, it’s something to take into account when you are heavy for sure.
@@MentourPilot If there were an ongoing engine fire, does pilots still dump fuel?
chang maybe prior to dumping fuel check list prescribes fire extinguisher apply to engine affected by fire. If unsuccessful, dumping fuel near a blazing engine is NOT a good idea. Anyway ,uncontainable engine fire needs an IMMEDIATE landing, no matters the weight..
Yes it def to reduce weight but the fact the pilots has resolved the engine compressor stall issue. So i dont feel you can call it an emergency. Unless they experienced compressor stall on the other engine. Then i agree it is a big crisis.
The 777 can still fly with one good engine. And the flight data shows them speeding like crazy well above 300 knots as they are returning back to LAX.
From what i heard there was no mentioned to the ATC about fuel dumping. So it was last min and clearly the pilots are in the wrong here.
@@linchester8464 Perhaps their logic was that making the plane lighter they lost inertia and such they could lower their landing speed.
Thank You for this video. Yes, please keep making these event-based/timely-based videos.
Thanks for the call out to Blancolirio channel. Juan does a fantastic job reporting. This channel, Juan's Blancolirio, and VASaviation are complimentary to one another.
I was thinking would you like to talk about the topic about dumping fuel last night. Then here you are now.😂
I aim to please!
You and Juan Browne are THE true media.
Thanks for yet another informative video.
@@MentourPilot Great to hear a pilot discuss the issue with knowledge and informed comment not ill informed nonsense.
Atc asked them if they needed to burn off or dump, they said negative. This was while they were over the water and above 6000 feet. Then they dumped fuel on final approach.
This def boggles my mind. ATC clearly asked if they need to dump fuel.
Says no and later proceeds to dump fuel anyway without ATC knowledge.
Very suspect
@@linchester8464 ATC never asked them if they "needed to dump fuel". ATC did ask them, twice, if they "needed to hold" to dump fuel. The pilot replied "no", and stated they were flying directly back to LA. Two totally different questions. I agree it appears that the plane never said if, when, or where they were going to dump fuel though. The CVR's will probably show this.
Hi,Mentour. Thanks for the update! I heard about that yesterday.R.K.
Good video! thanks for the information!
"Mainstream media was factually incorrect" not surprised there.
Mainstream media are morons. They know nothing about everything and talking cheese everytime! Especially in aviation!
I remember the crazy shit they told us after the Ramstein accident in 1988 and the "reports" of our German media. After that I angrily got rid of television and radio forever and have been living a more peaceful life than ever before! I can no longer hear and see that shit!
Go figure...lol
Everyone else seems to think it's okay to dump any old place in LA, why not airliners too...
a lot of parts it is probably an improvement... :-)
They probably figured the air is already so bad no one will notice. Every time I drive into CA and start coming down the mountain into Pasadena my throat starts burning and my sinuses go insane. Last summer the smoky haze made it almost all the way to the AZ border.
Think rationally for a minute. Do you seriously believe that this aircrew intentionally went about "carpet bombing" a school - or anyone else for that matter? "Hey... there's a school over there. Let's dump fuel there." Use your brain.
@@biffnarzilla4649 Their only regret was not having a box a matches with them.
I've seen similar videos, and I appreciate the way you refer to each other and support others in the aviation vlog community! Thank you
I like that you have found your community of aviation RUclipsrs, including Captain Joe referencing other people's material. This is fantastic!
And thank you, for giving us your insights, from the "captain's chair" perspective.
This is certainly going to be interesting and someone's going to be in an awful lot of trouble.
Might I make the suggestion though, that in future videos, that you might close-caption or subtitle the metric mass (tonnes) to US customary units (pounds) for those who might not be able to have an inherent feel for how much a "tonne" is.
Thanks.
When I did study my atpl exams, I did learn from Air Law and OPS when, where and why to dump fuel.
I also learned about human decision, human factor and human jugment from Human performance subject.
And in this case, I think they forgot about all of it.
Btw great video, I`m almost done with my atpl exams, 2 subjects left :)
4 pilots just threw the rulebook of fuel dumping 101 out their 777 window. That what i feel. BRUH Delta
@poor fellow well the capt of that flight got fired. Meaning what he did was f*ck up
poor fellow I don’t know how much knowledge you have of the aviation world, but I will try to explain to you why this was a poor decision from the crew. First of all, we learn from day one: Aviate, Navigate and Communicate. Aviate means stay calm, controll your aircraft. Navigate means where you are and where you want to fly. Communicate means establish communication with the frequency in use/ATC and ask for assistance. In their situation, the aircraft could fly without any problems with one engine. (One engine inoperative procedures). The weather was good, no worries. The ocean was straight ahead, to hold and dump fuel. So I don’t know why you mean they made correct decision. There is other factors too, like mass and balance, aircraft performance (speed, weight for landing)
@@aviatorrashad297 the pilots prob did 1 and 2 right but failed at 3.
ATC clearly asked if they need to dump fuel. Which they declined.
And when they did the fuel dump. Nothing was relayed to the ATC that was handling their approach to LAX.
If i were to do the same with 3 aka not talking to ATC. i will def fail my ATPL.
@hawkturkey 4 pilots having a brain fart? Boggles my mind.
Great vid!
Thank you!!
Back in 2007 (I think) a similar incident occurred in the area where I both lived and worked: Plymouth and Northville Michigan. The flight took off from KDTW and was destined to either Tokyo Japan or Beijing China nonstop. It was on a Northwest Airlines 747-400. Shortly after take off the captain informed departure control that they would have to return and land. No emergency was declared but thousands of gallons of fuel had to be jettisoned before an acceptable landing weight was achieved. The flight was given a pretty liberal area in which to dump the fuel. This incident made quite a stink in the air (obviously) and also with thousands of residents that were affected. Locally it was major news and all of the Detroit News TV networks reported on it heavily for a few days. I witnessed some of the dumping and it literally "misted" fuel on us. The entire geographic area smelled of fuel for a few hours; just like it does when a skunk let's loose.
Thanks for explaining things Mentourpilot
Love this channel
Thank you! I’m so happy to hear that!
Me: Chemtrails are not a thing.
Delta: (dumps fuel on schools)
Me: .....well, shit
Not that same thing!
Hello Petter. It’s great to see you in this setting. I have the chat but it’s so hard to catch you there. Yes, I do listen to Juan about every aviation occurrence (which have been many this past year and looks like 2020 will be just as bad). A collaboration with you and Juan would be very interesting and quite informative. Hope you are having a great start with the new decade and I look forward to seeing more of your videos. Safe skies to you 🌌 from the US.
As always great videos, I am looking forward for the next one.
As I often hear, "Tower: Got a number for you to call"
I wouldn't call it. Easy.
Never have I ever clicked on any of your videos so fast. I live along the flight path but further away from LAX so this was news to me. There was a slight smell of fuel but nothing to be concerned about. I reckon the captain of this flight will lose his license and Delta will have their in-house counawl busy with the onslaught of lawsuits that will be forthcoming. What do you think?
Good. Yeah this was a strange one. I have never heard I’d so low fuel dumping before
@@MentourPilot I remember hearing they used to do it in Kansas city a lot till they moved the airport way out of town. Haven't been there since the 70s so the airport is probably in town again.
Counawl?
There are 3 possible outcomes to this scenario. The plane lands safely with all it's fuel, the plane crashed on landing because it's severely overweight and kills everyone or dump fuel and land safely. This was perhaps not a difficult decision to make however why they didn't climb to a higher altitude (if possible in their situation) to dump fuel is still to be discovered.
Losing licence... lawsuits. Only an American would bring up those things first when it comes to aviation safety.
IMO, a pilot should only be fired for gross negligence, or for repeated events of complete incompetence that show no will or ability to improve. This should be the case in all professions, in all industries.
People should never be afraid of reporting their mistakes or near miss situations. It would be disastrous for safety.
Luckily the rest of the world is not that obsessed about firing people whenever they make mistakes, or suing people or companies over more or less ridiculous reasons.
Not related, but I have to say... you have the best intro segment! Great graphics, not too long, and a catchy tune.
Thank you Sir for teaching us....
Another great one! But I would say that when it comes to fuel weight on this flight, the number "212" is in pounds, not in tons.
It had 212,000 lbs, which non-metrically converts to 106 tons.
@@murphsmodels8853 sounds more accurate indeed.
Yes 😥 I realized that later on...
@@MentourPilot no worries Capt
Moi Moi Came here to say the same thing.
My gut feeling is the pilots were inexperienced, got spooked, and wanted on the ground. i feel they irresponsibly and purposefully did not tell ATC because they knew ATC would take them out over the ocean and, even though their aircraft was stabilized, they simply did not want to do anything but get on the ground. Also very curious if any communication between the cockpit and company operations might have had anything to do with it.