The thing is, most people in the United States have access to public libraries where you could reserve a room for things like roleplay and wargaming. And that's typically free of charge. So if a store is going to charge, it needs to add some sort of value for the fee. Perhaps the fee is for use of the professionally made terrain boards you play on. Or the fee is for renting out lots of cool scatter terrain. Or the fee is for a narrative writeup, or scorecarding, or record keeping. It doesn't have to be much. But something extra. Otherwise, the library down the street is offering the same thing for free.
At the game store I go to there is a table fee for regular players for established gaming groups. It's usually to help pay for snacks and drinks at reduced prices, minor upkeep, etc. Players just wanting to check something out are not charged the fee. It's not much, and to me is more than reasonable.
My rule of thumb is the price of a snack or drink if you're asking someone to pay to participate, the price a kid can afford with their pocket money or worst case won't feel too bad for their opposition to cover for them. Its mainly just to filter out the people that are just going to be a waste of time and space. That cost should also let you use materials kept at the store like their props, maps, spare dice/minis and so on as well as just table time/space
They have been mixing Bars and Restaurants and Game Tables near me. They don't sell any games, they sell Soda Booze, and Pizza, and Burgers, etc. The other older more established places are rocking Comics, and Toys too, and selling soda and candy bars/chips.
We used to have a store that sold GW stuff, Magic, etc. near by. The owner got the bright idea to start charging the miniatures gamers (but NOT the CCG gamers) for use of the tables; $5 per person for 3 hours. It didn't go over well at all. Pretty soon no one was going there to play or buy minis and he went out of business. I could see charging a small amount and having that go directly to store credit working for gaming... except things like D&D. I personally don't do RPGs in public and most people I know don't either. I mean, all you really need to play D&D is an old couch and a coffee table or some lawn chairs and a milk crate with an old kitchen cutting board on top, in a friend's garage.
People playing at your store is a marketing trick. See what people are playing and start carrying it. If they go to your store they’ll start BUYING that stuff from you. Also you can start selling snacks and drinks. Even more profit that way. If you need money for the table leave a tip jar out.
My store charges $5 for any in store play. The play area is secluded from the store area, has separate rooms for events, free paints and hobby supplies to use there, and you earn credits you can put towards certain purchases.
My store went from free to $5. Then, they just went back to free as it was always the same guys who supported the store anyway. Tables and terrain are also free. My first Battletech store back in the 90's had a $5 fee to play, but they also had 'house minis and armies', and you can use gratis. (As well as maps and terrain.)
I think two things are fair: Paying for a reservation. Keep the tables open for everyone, but if you want to make sure the table is open for a certain period of time, you pay a premium. I think charging $/h that goes toward store credit seems like a really smart and fair model. As someone who always buys something when I go to a store to play, this just codifies that. Comedy clubs often don't charge a cover, but have a 2 drink minimum. IMO its peak entitlement to think you should receive a service for nothing.
We used to have a game store that would charge $5 for certain games/events (certainly not for just casual play), but that $5 was applied toward your store credit. So it basically encouraged you to spend more so that you can make use of your credit. I always thought that was a reasonable system for a game store that was trying to keep the lights on.
Never had to pay for "casual" play. Local tournaments was different thing but thw € went for prizes. If you want to play at local shop then SUPPORT that shop, buy figures there, bring new players etc.
As long as its affordable like $5 a month or buy something, anything from the store once a month and you get full access to the gaming club. Gotta keep the lights on somehow, especially in this economy.
The store I frequent charges $10, which goes towards store credit. It's an awesome place with a vibrant community and a variety of games. I live just a five-minute walk from another store that doesn't charge anything, but I don't go there because it lacks a community and is often out of stock on wargaming supplies (mainly Warhammer 40k , Citadel stuff, and, oddly enough, Infinity). I feel bad about using their space without buying anything to support them-not even snacks. Their main revenue comes from card games, both through tournaments and card trading, and they have a good stock in that area. I agree with your assessment of the RPG community. Their Players typically don't spend much, with most of the rulebooks being bought by the gamemaster while the players just free-ride. Monetizing them is difficult, as shown by the recent Dungeons & Dragons controversy. We wargamers, on the other hand, are used to spending a lot on our hobby, so they squeeze us for every dollar. However, we're a small and fragmented community. Stores really only survive thanks to trading card games. Thats were the money is.
If any store in my area had an active Battletech community, I would GLADLY pay to play. I really like the idea of a store credit pay it forward type of deal, or a snacks credit, or a table reserve, something like that would sweeten the deal.
I only ever had to pay to play when I was living in NYC. It was $10 for particular nights, but the nights that weren't as crowded were not pay to play. I only ever really had time to go in on the days that everyone was there, so I had to pay a lot. I get why it was needed but it still did not feel great
Played a BT 1st Succ War campaign, & need some dice as all I've been using are generic white D6! You read my mind Frutz. We also have a local gaming store that just bumped another BT campaign as from what I understand 40k players were willing to pay for $5/person to rent all the tables. Sucks to have your game get bumped for more more money. I can tell you which of those two stores I'll support when buying product.
Rent has been growing astronomically for everyone (including small business owners). I don't mind a monthly fee, for like 20 usd. Have it come with two free sodas or something. The problem with table top games, is that only a couple of games move on the daily. Niche stuff like Kings of War, Firefight, Historicals etc... They sell much slower in comparison. Im absolutely certain my local store makes more money off paint than the minis themselves.
Speaking as a gamer who does all kinds. Role play gamers alone tend to be kind of cheap wads who around me I’ve seen not even buy books from the store or dice. So they end up taking up huge space , buy nothing and take lots of time. Nothing is free , not even space, especially not space.
I would have no issue paying to play in some sort of organized "league" or event, but I would expect something out of it. I.E. some work done by the owner/organizer. Also, if I have to pay to play in the store I wouldn't feel any obligation to buy product there. Whereas, any store I have ever played in for free, I always made sure I bought products from the store.
Local store near me (down under) runs a $5 booking fee if youre reserving table ahead of time, and casual walk ins run on the spend $5 in the store on product (both are about 2hr soft limits) Doesnt seem too bad for an independant store which is providing terrain, facilities, aircon in the ozzy temps, and a player group. Think its fair they make more of a margin on bookings, given that potentially takes away from other people who turn up on the day at the same time.
I think it also varies by number of players. Booking a table is one person paying, walk-ins is both players in buying something Board games with 4+ people, all paying, that'd feel bad since we're using the same amount of space as a 1v1
Maybe if you spend $100-$200 at the store, you earn a ticket for a free game session. Otherwise you'd have to pay to play. You could even give customers stamp/punch cards or rewards cards to accumulate credits over time.
Honestly for 5 bucks I have no problem with that especially if they give it back to you. When I go to stores I try and buy some snacks or support them in some way anyway. They have to keep the doors open for us to play at the end of the day.
Mine used to be $5 for equivalent store cred but they have to switch to $5 due to multiple factors. I am fine with that mostly because it keeps them open.
I can't say I've ever paid to play in a game store. The ones I've frequented have a vending machine and/or snacks available, which along with gaming supplies seems to be enough to keep the owner to be happy.
Tables should be considered a marketing expense. Different stores can afford different marketing budgets (what percentage of the store space is dedicated to play vs product). I wouldn't be averse to store credit, but other than tournaments (which have prize support) it would push me out of the store as a cash grab.
In the real world, this is not workable outside of small venues. Most customers come to play, not purchase and that's backed up with numbers. Pay to play means terrain can be replaced when broken, new tables purchased - wood, frames etc.. There is a reason why gaming stores go under. They facilitate entitled gamer syndrome.
@@gozewstuffnthings5837 I think your missing his point it's free marketing for a little space used. People are far more interested in getting into games when they see people playing them. Two dudes playing 40k well the guy that saw them just bought a combat patrol box that he wouldn't have other wise. Game stores goals are always to get new blood in and interested because as you said once people have an army they are not going to be spending as much.
I'm fine with that. There's a store near me that charges an admission but if you buy something your admission is used as credit. Pay $20 admission, get $20 off if you buy something
If it's pay to play I only spend that much. If it's free I'll ALWAYS buy models, paint, snacks or drinks. I was taught to always support the store if they have free tables.
They're a business. Place I work at, has over 90 tables - we provide the terrain etc. We charge a membership. This covers staffing to facilitate, payment for the bills, terrain we provide. These comments cry of people who've never been in the business.
Entitled children who don’t understand economics and small business. Also they tend to be leftists who think everything should be free. Thats just my observation
Small fee at a store sure. Local store is charging a $12 parlor fee per day, 60 a month...550 a year. Thats a little on the hotside for me. On the othet hand if the fee means a bigger space with plenty of terrain and models for new players and swag for "members" you can make an argument that its worth it. Theres another store in a rural area that has a massive space with cafe and coffee bar.
If they're going to charge you just for the table, save your money and just buy a table and play at home. They're not expensive. Only foolish game store owners try that, and it's a scarcity mindset, fearing that someone will play on your table and not give you a $1,000 for it. Winners realize that having tables causes people to come in, and more people than not then make you their game store and they spend money there. Losers try to nickel and dime everybody trying to get the guy who isn't going to give him money to give him money, and turn off their paying customers who also quit giving them money. Now a store credit is a different matter. If they charge $10 to play games for the evening, but it gives you a $10 gift card to the place, then that's no big deal. I don't know that you'll make money doing it, because of course you're going to lose customers even with a store credit. In the US, of all the things we've got, space is at the top of the list.
Role-playing Game Gamemasters, sure they will probably pay, they are the whales of the industry. Role-playing Game Players, a bunch of skinflints, you are lucky if they buy a players handbook, most of the time they just use the GMs, heck try to get them to pitch in for snacks.
Whether you pay up front or in higher product prices, as a customer you're going to have to pay to cover the cost of rental of that space in one way or another. I pay a small table fee at my local shop, but I know that it's directly supporting the store and the community it supports so I'm ok with it
The thing is, most people in the United States have access to public libraries where you could reserve a room for things like roleplay and wargaming. And that's typically free of charge. So if a store is going to charge, it needs to add some sort of value for the fee. Perhaps the fee is for use of the professionally made terrain boards you play on. Or the fee is for renting out lots of cool scatter terrain. Or the fee is for a narrative writeup, or scorecarding, or record keeping. It doesn't have to be much. But something extra. Otherwise, the library down the street is offering the same thing for free.
At the game store I go to there is a table fee for regular players for established gaming groups. It's usually to help pay for snacks and drinks at reduced prices, minor upkeep, etc. Players just wanting to check something out are not charged the fee. It's not much, and to me is more than reasonable.
My rule of thumb is the price of a snack or drink if you're asking someone to pay to participate, the price a kid can afford with their pocket money or worst case won't feel too bad for their opposition to cover for them. Its mainly just to filter out the people that are just going to be a waste of time and space.
That cost should also let you use materials kept at the store like their props, maps, spare dice/minis and so on as well as just table time/space
They have been mixing Bars and Restaurants and Game Tables near me. They don't sell any games, they sell Soda Booze, and Pizza, and Burgers, etc. The other older more established places are rocking Comics, and Toys too, and selling soda and candy bars/chips.
We used to have a store that sold GW stuff, Magic, etc. near by. The owner got the bright idea to start charging the miniatures gamers (but NOT the CCG gamers) for use of the tables; $5 per person for 3 hours. It didn't go over well at all. Pretty soon no one was going there to play or buy minis and he went out of business. I could see charging a small amount and having that go directly to store credit working for gaming... except things like D&D. I personally don't do RPGs in public and most people I know don't either. I mean, all you really need to play D&D is an old couch and a coffee table or some lawn chairs and a milk crate with an old kitchen cutting board on top, in a friend's garage.
People playing at your store is a marketing trick. See what people are playing and start carrying it. If they go to your store they’ll start BUYING that stuff from you. Also you can start selling snacks and drinks. Even more profit that way. If you need money for the table leave a tip jar out.
My store charges $5 for any in store play. The play area is secluded from the store area, has separate rooms for events, free paints and hobby supplies to use there, and you earn credits you can put towards certain purchases.
My store went from free to $5.
Then, they just went back to free as it was always the same guys who supported the store anyway. Tables and terrain are also free.
My first Battletech store back in the 90's had a $5 fee to play, but they also had 'house minis and armies', and you can use gratis. (As well as maps and terrain.)
I think two things are fair:
Paying for a reservation. Keep the tables open for everyone, but if you want to make sure the table is open for a certain period of time, you pay a premium.
I think charging $/h that goes toward store credit seems like a really smart and fair model. As someone who always buys something when I go to a store to play, this just codifies that. Comedy clubs often don't charge a cover, but have a 2 drink minimum.
IMO its peak entitlement to think you should receive a service for nothing.
We used to have a game store that would charge $5 for certain games/events (certainly not for just casual play), but that $5 was applied toward your store credit. So it basically encouraged you to spend more so that you can make use of your credit.
I always thought that was a reasonable system for a game store that was trying to keep the lights on.
Never had to pay for "casual" play. Local tournaments was different thing but thw € went for prizes.
If you want to play at local shop then SUPPORT that shop, buy figures there, bring new players etc.
As long as its affordable like $5 a month or buy something, anything from the store once a month and you get full access to the gaming club. Gotta keep the lights on somehow, especially in this economy.
I enjoy all of Wargamer Fritz videos
The store I frequent charges $10, which goes towards store credit. It's an awesome place with a vibrant community and a variety of games. I live just a five-minute walk from another store that doesn't charge anything, but I don't go there because it lacks a community and is often out of stock on wargaming supplies (mainly Warhammer 40k , Citadel stuff, and, oddly enough, Infinity). I feel bad about using their space without buying anything to support them-not even snacks. Their main revenue comes from card games, both through tournaments and card trading, and they have a good stock in that area.
I agree with your assessment of the RPG community. Their Players typically don't spend much, with most of the rulebooks being bought by the gamemaster while the players just free-ride. Monetizing them is difficult, as shown by the recent Dungeons & Dragons controversy. We wargamers, on the other hand, are used to spending a lot on our hobby, so they squeeze us for every dollar. However, we're a small and fragmented community. Stores really only survive thanks to trading card games. Thats were the money is.
If any store in my area had an active Battletech community, I would GLADLY pay to play. I really like the idea of a store credit pay it forward type of deal, or a snacks credit, or a table reserve, something like that would sweeten the deal.
I only ever had to pay to play when I was living in NYC. It was $10 for particular nights, but the nights that weren't as crowded were not pay to play. I only ever really had time to go in on the days that everyone was there, so I had to pay a lot. I get why it was needed but it still did not feel great
Played a BT 1st Succ War campaign, & need some dice as all I've been using are generic white D6! You read my mind Frutz.
We also have a local gaming store that just bumped another BT campaign as from what I understand 40k players were willing to pay for $5/person to rent all the tables. Sucks to have your game get bumped for more more money. I can tell you which of those two stores I'll support when buying product.
Rent has been growing astronomically for everyone (including small business owners).
I don't mind a monthly fee, for like 20 usd. Have it come with two free sodas or something.
The problem with table top games, is that only a couple of games move on the daily. Niche stuff like Kings of War, Firefight, Historicals etc... They sell much slower in comparison.
Im absolutely certain my local store makes more money off paint than the minis themselves.
Speaking as a gamer who does all kinds. Role play gamers alone tend to be kind of cheap wads who around me I’ve seen not even buy books from the store or dice. So they end up taking up huge space , buy nothing and take lots of time. Nothing is free , not even space, especially not space.
I would have no issue paying to play in some sort of organized "league" or event, but I would expect something out of it. I.E. some work done by the owner/organizer.
Also, if I have to pay to play in the store I wouldn't feel any obligation to buy product there. Whereas, any store I have ever played in for free, I always made sure I bought products from the store.
Local store near me (down under) runs a $5 booking fee if youre reserving table ahead of time, and casual walk ins run on the spend $5 in the store on product (both are about 2hr soft limits)
Doesnt seem too bad for an independant store which is providing terrain, facilities, aircon in the ozzy temps, and a player group.
Think its fair they make more of a margin on bookings, given that potentially takes away from other people who turn up on the day at the same time.
I think it also varies by number of players. Booking a table is one person paying, walk-ins is both players in buying something
Board games with 4+ people, all paying, that'd feel bad since we're using the same amount of space as a 1v1
Maybe if you spend $100-$200 at the store, you earn a ticket for a free game session. Otherwise you'd have to pay to play. You could even give customers stamp/punch cards or rewards cards to accumulate credits over time.
Honestly for 5 bucks I have no problem with that especially if they give it back to you. When I go to stores I try and buy some snacks or support them in some way anyway. They have to keep the doors open for us to play at the end of the day.
Mine used to be $5 for equivalent store cred but they have to switch to $5 due to multiple factors. I am fine with that mostly because it keeps them open.
I can't say I've ever paid to play in a game store. The ones I've frequented have a vending machine and/or snacks available, which along with gaming supplies seems to be enough to keep the owner to be happy.
Tables should be considered a marketing expense. Different stores can afford different marketing budgets (what percentage of the store space is dedicated to play vs product). I wouldn't be averse to store credit, but other than tournaments (which have prize support) it would push me out of the store as a cash grab.
In the real world, this is not workable outside of small venues. Most customers come to play, not purchase and that's backed up with numbers.
Pay to play means terrain can be replaced when broken, new tables purchased - wood, frames etc.. There is a reason why gaming stores go under. They facilitate entitled gamer syndrome.
@@gozewstuffnthings5837 I think your missing his point it's free marketing for a little space used. People are far more interested in getting into games when they see people playing them. Two dudes playing 40k well the guy that saw them just bought a combat patrol box that he wouldn't have other wise. Game stores goals are always to get new blood in and interested because as you said once people have an army they are not going to be spending as much.
If I'm playing a casual game, I'm only going to pay if it gives me store credit, or there's plenty of store terrain for us to use
I support charging a nominal fee for table reservations given that not all tables can be reserved.
I'm fine with that. There's a store near me that charges an admission but if you buy something your admission is used as credit. Pay $20 admission, get $20 off if you buy something
If it's pay to play I only spend that much. If it's free I'll ALWAYS buy models, paint, snacks or drinks. I was taught to always support the store if they have free tables.
Yeah fuck that. I don't have to pay to play at my store.
They're a business.
Place I work at, has over 90 tables - we provide the terrain etc. We charge a membership. This covers staffing to facilitate, payment for the bills, terrain we provide.
These comments cry of people who've never been in the business.
Entitled children who don’t understand economics and small business. Also they tend to be leftists who think everything should be free. Thats just my observation
Small fee at a store sure. Local store is charging a $12 parlor fee per day, 60 a month...550 a year. Thats a little on the hotside for me.
On the othet hand if the fee means a bigger space with plenty of terrain and models for new players and swag for "members" you can make an argument that its worth it. Theres another store in a rural area that has a massive space with cafe and coffee bar.
3T? I try and encourage players around MA/NH to meet there sometimes and they refuse to play there.
having an entry fee for tournaments is almost expected.
having a fee to utilize game space for casual play is the exception.
If they're going to charge you just for the table, save your money and just buy a table and play at home. They're not expensive. Only foolish game store owners try that, and it's a scarcity mindset, fearing that someone will play on your table and not give you a $1,000 for it. Winners realize that having tables causes people to come in, and more people than not then make you their game store and they spend money there. Losers try to nickel and dime everybody trying to get the guy who isn't going to give him money to give him money, and turn off their paying customers who also quit giving them money.
Now a store credit is a different matter. If they charge $10 to play games for the evening, but it gives you a $10 gift card to the place, then that's no big deal. I don't know that you'll make money doing it, because of course you're going to lose customers even with a store credit. In the US, of all the things we've got, space is at the top of the list.
i'd rather pay $2 with no store credit than $5 and get it back. then again i guess five dollars isnt what it used to be
Role-playing Game Gamemasters, sure they will probably pay, they are the whales of the industry. Role-playing Game Players, a bunch of skinflints, you are lucky if they buy a players handbook, most of the time they just use the GMs, heck try to get them to pitch in for snacks.
Whether you pay up front or in higher product prices, as a customer you're going to have to pay to cover the cost of rental of that space in one way or another.
I pay a small table fee at my local shop, but I know that it's directly supporting the store and the community it supports so I'm ok with it
F game stores they're all garbage