"Have" to? That's just what they want you to believe. Only 18% of SBR owners register. Not like anything is happening to the very, very silent millions of others who don't.
@@whisper8742but historically the push in the early 1930s was to eliminate handguns, not rifles or shotguns. Not that I support gun control, but at least they were trying to go after the class of firearms used most often in crime. As opposed to “evil black rifles” …
Great informative Podcast by the way. None of the info has not been known already by Gun Guys during my entire life,,its great to see its not forgotten though and actualy Passionatly studied and learned and shared by young Men in the best Voice to Ear Platform available so Keep it Up Guys!!
IMO the ONLY reason to go the SBR route is if you absolutely need the rigidity and shoulder area of a stock. I find no other reason to go through the process of asking the ATF for permission to have an SBR, when you can get one of the many great options from SB tactical. PRO's of a brace: - Concealed carry in your car of you live in a state where they restrict your ability to carry around a rifle - No need to notify the ATF when traveling throughout the states - No $200 tax - No direct record of you having it - No wait Easy choice if you ask me.
IF you have to use that weapon. Or you get pulled over while in possession of it, OR you simply go to the range and someone gets nosey, based upon the ATF’s recent interpretations that AR-Pistol can be determined by any number of criteria to be a SBR (arbitrarily) and you can be charged with a felony. Have fun fighting that “unconstitutional rule” in court. Hopefully you have hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank and can afford to stick it to the man on all of our behalf. Otherwise you’re taking a big risk.
@@JB-qt3wo lol ok. My life and my family’s lives are worth infinitely more than some arbitrary gun law made by people who are protected by the very guns they seek to regulate. I’d be curious to know what your favorite flavor of boot is…
I run an H2, or Spikes ST2 crushed tungsten buffer and a good tuned and polished spring in all of my guns. Especially my 11.5, heavy buffers increase the dwell time, and keep the gun from outrunning itself and beating itself to death. My 11.5 shoots like a dream, I have no desire to ever own another 16 inch AR.
I love the 11.5” length, the best general purpose SBR/Pistol length. It tends to be less temperamental, longer barrel life and wear, and above 2850fps for a perfect 0-300 yard range. The overall length doesn’t feel too short or too long.
Overall length is less than 26”, considered SBR also... ie 16” barrel but overall length is 23”, would fall under NFA as SBR if it has a buttstock. I love your podcasts fellas!!
ATF is a Regulatory,,NOT Law making Buracracy. Look up and see how many convictions there have been on 25 inch folding stock 16" barreled rifles!! Not trying to be a Peen,,i jus cannot stand these arbitrary rules that i have spent my life spending tons of money following,,when they are moatly scare tactics and get pressed Mostly if you use your firearm in a crime. NY made me turn in my 200+ all date marked Pre- Ban M16 and AR15 mag collection that were legal MY WHOLE ADULT LIFE from 1996 on,,and suddenly in 2012 Gov Cuomo,,yea thats the same one who jus got shitcanned,,well bonehead made them all Illegal overnight. No Amnesty,,no more Grandfathed as they are proven made before any ban. Jus your a Felon now,,and your $5000 mag collection is not only a Felony today,,it needs to be GIVEN to the Police haha. I sold them shits on Ebay that week. Scumbag Cuomo.🤙
And Adam would respond "Then why don't they put those braces on full length rifles?" ;) Lol in all fairness - the braces we have available to us now days are pretty amazing. That said, overnight they could suddenly become no longer legal... If you've got an SBR you never have to worry about any of that... or at least you're much less likely to need to worry.
Isn’t it pathetic we even have to worry about being labeled a felon overnight because of a piece of plastic or composite and the length of a piece of metal
@@VortexNation you can keep a loaded pistol in your car but not a loaded rifle. (in some states) same with open carry, some states u cant open carry a rifle but you can open carry a handgun. and crossing state lines with an SBR is a joke. havent finished the podcast yet so maybe you addressed this already
For a 9mm pistol caliber carbine, that kind of defeats the purpose of an intermediate caliber rifle. That being said, the blast and concussion is much more pleasant; I mean HUGE. Not to mention that a 7" barrel is also much more doable and practical with a 9mm than a 5.56.
The main thing I hate about having to get an AFA tax stamp for anything is the fact that I would be added to a federal database (watch list) like a sex offender or something.
Just filed my first form 1 I dont regret it at all. Pistol braces are tolerable and have their benefits in terms of the laws. A stock is a stock though and I want to use a stock of my liking not a silly brace thats technically a stock with less material and less comfortable.
AR pistol for me. You cant even travel with the sbr without reaching out to the government. An they want a lil to much info. Seem like a good way to be first in line to get weapons confiscated.
Well, the ATF just effectively confiscated all AR-pistols by “switching their interpretation” of what an SBR is or isn’t…which is basically anything they decide is or isn’t depending on who you are, what time it is, whether the sun is in an equinox, or they simply don’t like the look of your big dumb head. Gonna have to register it to keep it legal. We do not live under a govt. that respects the law so we have to use the bureaucracy against them.
14.5 uppers aren't because an a2 is 1.5 inches. the military uses 14.5 and they dont have to abide by NFA bullshit. and plus a 1.5 inch flash hider screwed to a 14.5 wouldn't bring the length to 16 inches, more like 15.5. thats why most pinned and welded 14.5s require an extra long flash hider
Ballistics is also a consideration; at 10.5" you really are reducing the velocity of 5.56 to the point where you are on the envelope for good lethality at mid range. In my opinion, 11.5" or 12.5" or even 14.5" is a nice sweet spot for 5.56 (an M4 is 14.5"). My favorite 5.56 SBR's have 12.5 and 14.5 barrels. For 300 Black, different story. 300 Black will perform well out of a 10.5" barrel, and a 10.5" 300 Black rifle with a suppressor is pure nirvana.
It's always seemed foolish to me that people get like 7" barrel ar pistols in .223/5.56 when you're neutering the cartridge. Get a pcc or 300blk or a bullpup and have a useful weapon
Good to hear as this is my nascent understanding too. Been trying to decide among 10.5-12.5 for a build for a 5.56 receiver. I’d love to go shorter than 10” but definitely want 300 or 9mm for that. Not interested in going deaf. Blackout is tempting but with SHTF consideration, I’ll probably go 9mm for ammo availability. I’ve also learned that a shorter barrel is actually more accurate, but yeah, the 556 is high velocity and it seems noobie and stupid to use it with an extremely short barrel.
None of this is remotely true or factual if you consider ammo other than M855 and M193, specifically 75/77 grain hollow point/boat tail hollow point/polymer tip/soft tip/etc/etc ammo available at every gun store in the entire country.
In the PNW, we usually just say "short mag", but I'll have to remember wizm for next time I run into a Texan ;) NFA stuff sounds fun, addictive, and expensive: an AKV, BRN-180 in 300 BO, and Mk. 18 would be a good start. I've been enjoying the podcast, keep it up!
The government appreciates you providing them with all of the detailed info required for an SBR, plus the government enjoys that you have to ask them for permission to travel with your SBR.
9mm 8 inch barrel SBR would be my choice with a suppressor. That would be my first choice in an SBR 2nd would be a 300 blackout 8 inch barrel with suppressor.
Legally? Traveling out of state, or living in a state that doesn't allow it. Mechanically, it depends on the firearm. 5.7 was designed for a 10" barrel so you'll be okay ballistically.
This is a love/hate… Love you guys and a new subscriber! The content and level of communication with your guests have been A1. The only hate is that I am late to your party… You guys have so much good content. It’s going to take me forever to catch up…
Rossi does a Mare's Leg 1892 pattern. Could get that, Form 1 it, and then buy a stock. No one else does a Mare's Leg though, so a something like a short barreled Marlin would need to be sent off to a gunsmith.
I don't want to look dumb writing this but the measuring method seems like bad practice (I could be wrong). Why does the NFAs (or ATFs whatever) measuring "method" involve sticking something down the barrel opposite the direction a projectile travel? That is never good (I know the "one time probably isn't bad" argument is coming which I do not fully disagree with). But when considering torques, tolerances, and specifications, it may be actually be bad and throw off your shot. Again, I could be wrong. Any one care to clarify if they know?
They want you to measure that way because when the bolt is closed, the bolt face is the end of the barrel. The muzzle is the other end. That will give you the most accurate barrel length. As for putting something down the muzzle, I think many people overthink this. You aren’t just haphazardly shoving stuff down your barrel. No more so than using a cleaning rod properly. However, if that concerns you, you can always buy a wooden dowel with a diameter that clears your bores diameter. If you damage your barrel with thin, soft pine…. your firearm was beyond dangerous to fire to begin with.
Well 223 AR-15 copper jacket soft point 55 ring Factory load coming out of an 18 or 20 inch barrel AR-15 at 100 yd you should be getting in the neighborhood of 2400 ft per second
Sure quicker to get a sbr form 1 or form 3 but you gotta ask permission to take it places but once I got my supressor it’s mine I don’t have to ask permission just have a picture or copy of tax stamp
A Lower that has been attached to a "Rifle" upper can not be a "Pistol" lower ever. A "Pistol" lower that has been attached to a "Pistol" upper can be used on a "Rifle" or "Pistol" upper! This is the B.S. these DC folk make up as they go! So Every single one of my lowers I buy, are instantly put under a pistol upper for 5 minutes! I do it usually in the store so I have witnesses before I even go home. Now those lower can go on either! Multi - is whole other classification. Dont even go there!
Unless you have proof in written and signed documentation doing this by individuals inside the store it will legally never fly in court. Footage is lost, people get fired and businesses close.
They wanted to sell the m1 carbine which was 18 inch and they had Millions of them so they came up with the 16 inch length but the thing was to go after the pistols
It was 18 for both rifle and shotgun until the government sold a lot of surplus rifles around 16 inches. Then they changed the rifle to 16 and kept shotgun at 18.
Has no one mentioned the thought that the barrel length issue may be because of the ease of concealing shot guns and SBRs. If you think about it seems to me that hiding a full size shotgun under your jacket would be a but difficult...
That would be A reason that some may claim and to some degree, are reasonable. However, a person who is going to do a crime or an act of passion most likely doesn't care at all about the law already and will still break the law. The vast majority of people who want shorter barrels are for a number of reasons. Weigh savings, cost savings, min/max performance, the ability to use inside of a home for protection or being able to better transport one while in an off road vehicle on the farm, or simply because it's cool. Criminals will use whatever they can get their hands on and that includes whatever is legal or illegal and they don't care.
I went to a gun shop, picked out their cheapest lower reciever, and increased the price just a bit by swapping the rifle stock out for a pistol brace. I don't know for sure, but I'm betting that it came with a standard buffer system for a 16" 5.56. I paired this lower with an inexpensive PSA 10.5" 300 blk upper. I don't know for sure, but it is likely over gassed. it has all of the recoil. I put an inexpensive break on it which does make a difference. now I need a stronger spring. anyone want to sell me a spring?
That’s a felony bro. A rifle (including an AR lower receiver that has ever been transferred as a rifle, or has ever had a stock attached) cannot become a pistol, only a SBR. If you start with a pistol lower however, you can legally attach a 16” upper to it, and then replace the brace with a stock. But the barrel HAS to be 16” or more in this configuration without an approved NFA form 1. It’s honestly really stupid rules.
@Dode he's a fed, so he doesn't have to worry about it my dude. Someone that can do all that knows where to buy a spring. It was pretty good bait though.
20" is when the 5.56 M193 ball round does exactly what the round was designed to do at 3,000fps and is DEVASTATING when hit at 100yards. Everything else is of course lethal,,also a compromise on the Cartridge intended usage.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz When I say Modern, I'm talking about compared to when the law was enacted in the 1934. As far as Bullpup rifles, even full length Bullpup rifles, i.e. 26" OAL, are shorter then say a SBR with 14.5" barrel. So my question again is why are SBR's even considered NFA items?
Great podcast yet again! So I wanted to buy one of those ‘contraptions’ that you could put on a pistol that will actually make it an SBR I’m wondering if it’s even worth it?! Are there any gotchas to this?? Like what if I had to move within the same state…how about out of state?? What about when traveling or perhaps use it for hunting (thinking of Glock 40 10mm into an SBR?)
The M16 was a 10-in barrel and retractables stock is a pilot M16 they have a short barrel so in case they have to bail out of the airplane if they get shot down they can jump and jump out of the airplane and grab that little short rifle I'm 16 they have a rifle to bail out of the airplane with for self-defense
SBRs are only cool because the ATF says you have to fill out paperwork for them. I naturally gravitate to an 18" for 5.56x45, 16" .308Win, and just run with a brace on PCCs or .300AAC. I know, the ATF doesn't like braces now. My State doesn't care.
Isnt it odd that something that is already made,,serialized and made takes about 20 times longer at the moment to get your paperwork done on than whatever you chose to make yourself lol. Jus fykn silly🤙
I consider my MP5 a sub gun and always have. It has always bothered me that my Govrnmt made me put a SBR Legal term to it. 16-20inch are rifles. 16-10.3inch are Carbines. These braced Pistols or Sub Guns make me laugh when called the Gun sales Buzz Word PCC's as they are not rifles and they are DEF not Carbines in any way shape or form. They are pistols with braces or Sub guns,,refering to their Sub Rifle caliber Ammo. PCC is a Gay Industry term they were able to sell the Geeky skinny jean wearing Generation to pump out dozens of different designs that ALL do the same exact thing with the same exact cartrige and NONE of them shoot or perform any better than the Submachine Gun made in 1966 so i find it all soo Comical,, at the same time i welcome EVERY RESPONSIBLE Person to be a Gun Owner by all means. I jus find this whole Generation odd. Shit when i was 18 the whole Damn Country could not own 30 round mags,,telescoping stocks,,bayonette lugs,,threaded barrels,,etc and it was jus opression on Law Abiding people and when i turned 25 it was proven as such as Gun Crime actualy rose lol. I living on Long Island at the time was soooo Happy for a Week until NY announced they were somehow keeping the bullchit ban our entire Country was jus released from.I live in GA now and realy see how bad Liberal ran States truly are and it almost feels like GA is going in that direction and im sickened that the People of this State are jus standing by and letting it happen. It comes from young people raised on screens,,not in the real world that dont realy wanna be free or Accountable for themselves,,and actualy on some sickening level prefer to be told what to do and expect handouts.Think of all our Fellow Americans who died for our Freedoms and out of straight up lazyness and Pussyness or "Soft Men" we are giving up out libertys at will!! Like WTF?? That is LITERALY the first steps of the Communist Playbook!! And now we are supprised Russia is bombing and raiding another Country today as we cant even control our own border??It didnt take "Russian Colusion",, it jus took a bunch of Leftist College Professors and a Generation of Soft White Guys.And we lost more in a Decade than the past 200 years. Its soo soo Sad for real Patriots🤙
@@MF-Rell Lol,,funny story brah. Your timing couldn't be bedda. So iv neva and would neva buy any clothing from Walmart in my life,,only this happened jus yesterday so ima say it. I was stuck in Walmart for 2 damn hours,,lets jus say with a Female. You know how that can be im sure. So i walk ova to look at Mens Boxer Shorts jus to see if they had any Silk Boxer shorts in any Cool designs and when i looked in the section where like sleeping pants and warm up pants and Sweatpants were,,first of all i thought i had died and gone to Nerd Heaven as EVERYTHING was Marvel,,or sum Comic book Character,,or marked with STAR WARS!!LMFOA,,on top of it all i could see EVERY SINGLE pair had a label on top that said SLIM DESIGN.Now first off,,if you live an active lifestyle and i mean always active like i did growing up and still do,,and your Sauseech is a halfway decent size it is impossible to feel comfortable and look cool wearing dat crap. And every WOMAN AND SMOKING HOT GIRL i have Eva asked if they think Skinny Jeans Make them Desire a MAN,,every single one of them has said NO!! So stop geeking out Guys and give the Ladies what they want!! And i dont mean the girl you met online who first revied your PROFILE lol. Im talking when you see a beautifull Woman Anywhere,,go over to her and TALK TO HER!!,Do that every possible chance you get and you will thank me i promise. And you cannot possibly approach that bad ass Woman that turns you on and think you look good wearing Skinny Shit. And what you see online an on TV is jus dat,, fantasy land. If you dont have obscene amounts of money you cannot get away wit skinny jeans on a Beautifull Fun lovin Woman who wants you to show Her the World,,make her laugh,,at the same time letting it be known in a very subtle way that when the laughing stops that you are all Man and will make her Neva forget it. Im sorry bro, skinny clothes on Dudes jus DOES NOT convey that message unless you live in,,"The Valley" or Los Angeles or sum chit where ALL the Men are Douchey,,but they have tons of money so they get away with it. Im giving you young guys fykn GOLD right here. Go ouda ya way to look Different!! Not the same as every Nerd out there,,even if ya are a bit nerdy!! Rock your own style and get a relaxed fit,,or you jus dont come across relaxed!! So no re-iterate your question,,NO my friend,,skinny clothing never made a Man feel more Confident and approachable to a Woman. And that should be your every thought at every moment until ya get married. I dont know whats goin on wit Society these days. Soon Guys are jus gonna be happy enough being their nerd selves with their Virtual Girlfriend and when that day comes we are Doomed as Homo Sapiens and it doesnt feel toooo far away at the moment🙏🤙
I'm was joking bro, I wear em but they're athletic cut. White guys wear em with shit kickers... I'm from the south in the heart of dixie and nobody cares anymore bro. We're out here just trying to enjoy life 🙃
@@MF-Rell im in Metro Atlanta myself now. Its def a bit of a Culture shock. Iv had a lot of people say they can see my style i more Nyish. Pretty much everybody. They dont seem to be talkin chit though. Im a 90's, Nike sneaker Jynkie,,mostly air max 95's and about a dozen or so limited edition 97 air max silver bullets. So people have asked me in barber shops and what not where i have got certian threads or kix. Its jus diff up North. We a bunch of Label Whore's that grew up on L.I. And Manhattan,,i admit it🙏🤙
A) wait until you learn that 18" and 20" are common carbine lengths B) 16" is a carbine to you, and PCCs usually have 16" barrels, but PCCs aren't carbines even thought they meet your arbitrary barrel length classifications?
Very illegal here in New Jersey. Can't even on a standard-length AR here. No "pistol" ARs, no suppressers, no pistol braces, no SBRs or SBS, not even the Mossberg Shockwave....YMMV.
Always wanted to be on a podcast...lol...made a impression....yall are all welcome to come shoot hogs with me in Texas....wait...except for Mr.Whizum...and Texas jokester .....nahhh jk..yall can come too....need someone to load mags and carry water..😉..on a serious keep.up the great podcasts!!
Nothing, and I mean nothing, gets in a tree stand and around the thick pine forests of the southeast better than a Daniel Defense PDW300 with a 9” barrel and a red dot, and the .300 AAC will handle deer at those ranges (75-100 yards and in) no problem.
They are nine wouldn't be no good for deer hunting no because it wouldn't have enough shock power or penetration at 100 yards or further for deer hunting you just end up wanting the deer and having to track it it wouldn't be good for penetration and stopping power at 100 yards or further maybe 50 yards will be all right but anything maybe pass for 50 yards that I don't think it'd be worth a damn I don't think it'd have enough penetration or stopping power to actually kill a deer past the 50 yard or past 100 yards I mean if you would just end up wounding the deer
You can’t take a rifle lower and turn it into a pistol. You can turn a rifle into a pistol however. When filing a form 1 you can do whatever you want as the previous classification and manufacturer don’t matter. In the ATF’s eyes you are now the manufacturer
16" regulation came to be after uncle sam sold a bunch of surplus m1 carbines to the public and then realized they just violated their own regulations.
It's really hard to make a quality suppressor. You're also already on a list. ATF's been compiling 4473 on a registry for years. Anyone that's ever bought a gun from a shop, NFA or not, is on a list. We're past being on the list.
I sure wish you guys would show your phone number at the end of your advertisement or into your segment so I can get your phone number for your company so I can give you guys a call and make life a lot easier for your consumers so we can call you guys
I like the idea of SBRs. I hate the idea of having to register to have them. It's dumb.
Make it a AR pistol
"Have" to? That's just what they want you to believe. Only 18% of SBR owners register. Not like anything is happening to the very, very silent millions of others who don't.
How has no one commented that the NFA was originally trying to go after HANDGUNS and that’s how SBRs became a thing.
Their education and research only went so far... ALL Firearms is the End Goal.
@@whisper8742but historically the push in the early 1930s was to eliminate handguns, not rifles or shotguns. Not that I support gun control, but at least they were trying to go after the class of firearms used most often in crime. As opposed to “evil black rifles” …
Great informative Podcast by the way. None of the info has not been known already by Gun Guys during my entire life,,its great to see its not forgotten though and actualy Passionatly studied and learned and shared by young Men in the best Voice to Ear Platform available so Keep it Up Guys!!
IMO the ONLY reason to go the SBR route is if you absolutely need the rigidity and shoulder area of a stock. I find no other reason to go through the process of asking the ATF for permission to have an SBR, when you can get one of the many great options from SB tactical.
PRO's of a brace:
- Concealed carry in your car of you live in a state where they restrict your ability to carry around a rifle
- No need to notify the ATF when traveling throughout the states
- No $200 tax
- No direct record of you having it
- No wait
Easy choice if you ask me.
Free men don't ask permission.
@@EDDSkitz agreed
IF you have to use that weapon. Or you get pulled over while in possession of it, OR you simply go to the range and someone gets nosey, based upon the ATF’s recent interpretations that AR-Pistol can be determined by any number of criteria to be a SBR (arbitrarily) and you can be charged with a felony. Have fun fighting that “unconstitutional rule” in court. Hopefully you have hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank and can afford to stick it to the man on all of our behalf. Otherwise you’re taking a big risk.
@@JB-qt3wo lol ok. My life and my family’s lives are worth infinitely more than some arbitrary gun law made by people who are protected by the very guns they seek to regulate.
I’d be curious to know what your favorite flavor of boot is…
@@JB-qt3wo I think they give you the option of paying the 200 and going SBR.
I run an H2, or Spikes ST2 crushed tungsten buffer and a good tuned and polished spring in all of my guns. Especially my 11.5, heavy buffers increase the dwell time, and keep the gun from outrunning itself and beating itself to death. My 11.5 shoots like a dream, I have no desire to ever own another 16 inch AR.
I love the 11.5” length, the best general purpose SBR/Pistol length. It tends to be less temperamental, longer barrel life and wear, and above 2850fps for a perfect 0-300 yard range. The overall length doesn’t feel too short or too long.
Overall length is less than 26”, considered SBR also... ie 16” barrel but overall length is 23”, would fall under NFA as SBR if it has a buttstock. I love your podcasts fellas!!
Great addition there! Thanks for tuning in :)
ATF is a Regulatory,,NOT Law making Buracracy. Look up and see how many convictions there have been on 25 inch folding stock 16" barreled rifles!! Not trying to be a Peen,,i jus cannot stand these arbitrary rules that i have spent my life spending tons of money following,,when they are moatly scare tactics and get pressed Mostly if you use your firearm in a crime. NY made me turn in my 200+ all date marked Pre- Ban M16 and AR15 mag collection that were legal MY WHOLE ADULT LIFE from 1996 on,,and suddenly in 2012 Gov Cuomo,,yea thats the same one who jus got shitcanned,,well bonehead made them all Illegal overnight. No Amnesty,,no more Grandfathed as they are proven made before any ban. Jus your a Felon now,,and your $5000 mag collection is not only a Felony today,,it needs to be GIVEN to the Police haha. I sold them shits on Ebay that week. Scumbag Cuomo.🤙
ATF has gone rogue since this video, and determined every braces AR pistol as a SBR
We do put pistol braces on full length uppers in CA, as they are called “others.” Check Franklin Armory Title 1.
Hi, from the future, what y’all were saying about them making pistol braces an nfa item, well it’s here 😁
Thats all cap
I think with the awesome brace market.....just go AR pistol👍🇺🇸
And Adam would respond "Then why don't they put those braces on full length rifles?" ;) Lol in all fairness - the braces we have available to us now days are pretty amazing. That said, overnight they could suddenly become no longer legal... If you've got an SBR you never have to worry about any of that... or at least you're much less likely to need to worry.
Isn’t it pathetic we even have to worry about being labeled a felon overnight because of a piece of plastic or composite and the length of a piece of metal
@@VortexNation you can keep a loaded pistol in your car but not a loaded rifle. (in some states) same with open carry, some states u cant open carry a rifle but you can open carry a handgun. and crossing state lines with an SBR is a joke. havent finished the podcast yet so maybe you addressed this already
@@Hoppes99 couldn't you just pull the mag out and be good to go?
@@Brock_CO no
For a 9mm pistol caliber carbine, that kind of defeats the purpose of an intermediate caliber rifle. That being said, the blast and concussion is much more pleasant; I mean HUGE. Not to mention that a 7" barrel is also much more doable and practical with a 9mm than a 5.56.
300 blk suppressed is probably more practical.
Sig rattler 5.5 inch 300 blackout
The main thing I hate about having to get an AFA tax stamp for anything is the fact that I would be added to a federal database (watch list) like a sex offender or something.
TAX STAMPS re ILLIGAL! Tea tax is what started our road to FREEDOM ! 1776 !
Just filed my first form 1 I dont regret it at all. Pistol braces are tolerable and have their benefits in terms of the laws. A stock is a stock though and I want to use a stock of my liking not a silly brace thats technically a stock with less material and less comfortable.
It’s “technically” NOT a stock, it “theoretically” and “hypothetically” IS a stock
AR pistol for me. You cant even travel with the sbr without reaching out to the government. An they want a lil to much info. Seem like a good way to be first in line to get weapons confiscated.
The feds would probably watch you with a lot more scrutiny than a child molester.
@@dud3man6969 Yep. People with suppressors on that list too.
I agree acept they are actualy safer in an ironclad legal trust.
Well, the ATF just effectively confiscated all AR-pistols by “switching their interpretation” of what an SBR is or isn’t…which is basically anything they decide is or isn’t depending on who you are, what time it is, whether the sun is in an equinox, or they simply don’t like the look of your big dumb head. Gonna have to register it to keep it legal. We do not live under a govt. that respects the law so we have to use the bureaucracy against them.
@@JB-qt3wo When did that happen. Didn't know the atf made laws?
I have a 300 Hamr 18inch barrel AR15 and its awesome! Best 30 cal shot out of a ar15 platform!
14.5 uppers aren't because an a2 is 1.5 inches. the military uses 14.5 and they dont have to abide by NFA bullshit. and plus a 1.5 inch flash hider screwed to a 14.5 wouldn't bring the length to 16 inches, more like 15.5. thats why most pinned and welded 14.5s require an extra long flash hider
Ballistics is also a consideration; at 10.5" you really are reducing the velocity of 5.56 to the point where you are on the envelope for good lethality at mid range. In my opinion, 11.5" or 12.5" or even 14.5" is a nice sweet spot for 5.56 (an M4 is 14.5"). My favorite 5.56 SBR's have 12.5 and 14.5 barrels. For 300 Black, different story. 300 Black will perform well out of a 10.5" barrel, and a 10.5" 300 Black rifle with a suppressor is pure nirvana.
It's always seemed foolish to me that people get like 7" barrel ar pistols in .223/5.56 when you're neutering the cartridge. Get a pcc or 300blk or a bullpup and have a useful weapon
What about 11.3 100-300 yards 🤔
@@KayoMonei Close enough.
Good to hear as this is my nascent understanding too. Been trying to decide among 10.5-12.5 for a build for a 5.56 receiver. I’d love to go shorter than 10” but definitely want 300 or 9mm for that. Not interested in going deaf. Blackout is tempting but with SHTF consideration, I’ll probably go 9mm for ammo availability. I’ve also learned that a shorter barrel is actually more accurate, but yeah, the 556 is high velocity and it seems noobie and stupid to use it with an extremely short barrel.
None of this is remotely true or factual if you consider ammo other than M855 and M193, specifically 75/77 grain hollow point/boat tail hollow point/polymer tip/soft tip/etc/etc ammo available at every gun store in the entire country.
In the PNW, we usually just say "short mag", but I'll have to remember wizm for next time I run into a Texan ;)
NFA stuff sounds fun, addictive, and expensive: an AKV, BRN-180 in 300 BO, and Mk. 18 would be a good start.
I've been enjoying the podcast, keep it up!
I hate WA State
The government appreciates you providing them with all of the detailed info required for an SBR, plus the government enjoys that you have to ask them for permission to travel with your SBR.
This.
I got my SBR stamp approved in 30 days in June of 2022 For Two SBR’s
Form 1 or 4? My eForm 4 suppressors came back one day apart at 51 weeks and the other at whatever middle of April is until Dec 23rd
We had been using what passed for short carbines in Burma and Malaya, for just a while before Vietnam…. so the idea was already there.
Love this Talk keep it up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
9mm 8 inch barrel SBR would be my choice with a suppressor. That would be my first choice in an SBR 2nd would be a 300 blackout 8 inch barrel with suppressor.
I have a question. I want to get a sbr upper. Do I have to put the money down for the sbr in advance then fill out the forms and pay the tax stamp?
I think the rule is that you can’t assemble the SBR until you get your stamp, but you can already have all the parts.
I would like to do a 5.7x28 sbr .. what would be some issues I may run into ?
Legally? Traveling out of state, or living in a state that doesn't allow it.
Mechanically, it depends on the firearm. 5.7 was designed for a 10" barrel so you'll be okay ballistically.
I watched this show for over an hour but once you said whizm WSM, I got pissed as Texan and watched the rest of it😂👍🇺🇸
This is a love/hate… Love you guys and a new subscriber! The content and level of communication with your guests have been A1. The only hate is that I am late to your party… You guys have so much good content. It’s going to take me forever to catch up…
What about using an 80%er. What's needed for paperwork?
Nada
I would like an SBR in lever action
Rossi does a Mare's Leg 1892 pattern. Could get that, Form 1 it, and then buy a stock. No one else does a Mare's Leg though, so a something like a short barreled Marlin would need to be sent off to a gunsmith.
I’m going ar pistol 11.3 and 13.7 pin and weld 🤷🏾♂️
I almost had an aneurysm when y'all starting rattling off that whizm nonsense 😂😂 Great episode fellas!
Now that I’ve filed a form for a suppressor, I kinda feel like I might as well just SBR some shit
Good stuff guys
I don't want to look dumb writing this but the measuring method seems like bad practice (I could be wrong). Why does the NFAs (or ATFs whatever) measuring "method" involve sticking something down the barrel opposite the direction a projectile travel? That is never good (I know the "one time probably isn't bad" argument is coming which I do not fully disagree with). But when considering torques, tolerances, and specifications, it may be actually be bad and throw off your shot. Again, I could be wrong. Any one care to clarify if they know?
They want you to measure that way because when the bolt is closed, the bolt face is the end of the barrel. The muzzle is the other end. That will give you the most accurate barrel length. As for putting something down the muzzle, I think many people overthink this. You aren’t just haphazardly shoving stuff down your barrel. No more so than using a cleaning rod properly. However, if that concerns you, you can always buy a wooden dowel with a diameter that clears your bores diameter. If you damage your barrel with thin, soft pine…. your firearm was beyond dangerous to fire to begin with.
Well 223 AR-15 copper jacket soft point 55 ring Factory load coming out of an 18 or 20 inch barrel AR-15 at 100 yd you should be getting in the neighborhood of 2400 ft per second
necro post but ATF does not make law but letters are just that they cannot make law. it takes an act of congress
Sure quicker to get a sbr form 1 or form 3 but you gotta ask permission to take it places but once I got my supressor it’s mine I don’t have to ask permission just have a picture or copy of tax stamp
What quad rail is that? thanks
SBR AND GET ON THIER LIST !
I refuse to pay unnecessary taxes and give the government more info than necessary
I've searched and I have not been able to find a picatinny mount beanie baby. I think this may be an untapped market. Vortex???
A Lower that has been attached to a "Rifle" upper can not be a "Pistol" lower ever. A "Pistol" lower that has been attached to a "Pistol" upper can be used on a "Rifle" or "Pistol" upper! This is the B.S. these DC folk make up as they go! So Every single one of my lowers I buy, are instantly put under a pistol upper for 5 minutes! I do it usually in the store so I have witnesses before I even go home. Now those lower can go on either! Multi - is whole other classification. Dont even go there!
Unless you have proof in written and signed documentation doing this by individuals inside the store it will legally never fly in court. Footage is lost, people get fired and businesses close.
They wanted to sell the m1 carbine which was 18 inch and they had Millions of them so they came up with the 16 inch length but the thing was to go after the pistols
no ar pistols in MA unless a fixed mag by factory. Forces me to go to sbr
It was 18 for both rifle and shotgun until the government sold a lot of surplus rifles around 16 inches. Then they changed the rifle to 16 and kept shotgun at 18.
File a Form zero.
Then a Form “FiF”
Has no one mentioned the thought that the barrel length issue may be because of the ease of concealing shot guns and SBRs. If you think about it seems to me that hiding a full size shotgun under your jacket would be a but difficult...
That would be A reason that some may claim and to some degree, are reasonable. However, a person who is going to do a crime or an act of passion most likely doesn't care at all about the law already and will still break the law. The vast majority of people who want shorter barrels are for a number of reasons. Weigh savings, cost savings, min/max performance, the ability to use inside of a home for protection or being able to better transport one while in an off road vehicle on the farm, or simply because it's cool.
Criminals will use whatever they can get their hands on and that includes whatever is legal or illegal and they don't care.
I use 10.5" for that extra .2" of security lol
I went to a gun shop, picked out their cheapest lower reciever, and increased the price just a bit by swapping the rifle stock out for a pistol brace. I don't know for sure, but I'm betting that it came with a standard buffer system for a 16" 5.56. I paired this lower with an inexpensive PSA 10.5" 300 blk upper. I don't know for sure, but it is likely over gassed. it has all of the recoil. I put an inexpensive break on it which does make a difference. now I need a stronger spring. anyone want to sell me a spring?
That’s a felony bro. A rifle (including an AR lower receiver that has ever been transferred as a rifle, or has ever had a stock attached) cannot become a pistol, only a SBR.
If you start with a pistol lower however, you can legally attach a 16” upper to it, and then replace the brace with a stock. But the barrel HAS to be 16” or more in this configuration without an approved NFA form 1.
It’s honestly really stupid rules.
@Dode he's a fed, so he doesn't have to worry about it my dude. Someone that can do all that knows where to buy a spring. It was pretty good bait though.
Y'all missed the venerable 6.5 GRENDEL
20" is when the 5.56 M193 ball round does exactly what the round was designed to do at 3,000fps and is DEVASTATING when hit at 100yards. Everything else is of course lethal,,also a compromise on the Cartridge intended usage.
16-20 inch is the money
We shouldn’t have to register anything anyway with the unconstitutional ATF !!
We shouldn’t do it in general regardless of the law.
Why are we arguing about what is and is not a SBR? With modern day technology, i.e. Bullpup rifles, why are SBR's even considered NFA items today?
Good question and I'm surprised that wasn't brought up in the video, however some would say don't give the govt ideas.
Because the law hasn't been repealed.....that's how laws work. Also just wanna point out bullpups aren't modern and there are still SBR bullpups.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz When I say Modern, I'm talking about compared to when the law was enacted in the 1934. As far as Bullpup rifles, even full length Bullpup rifles, i.e. 26" OAL, are shorter then say a SBR with 14.5" barrel. So my question again is why are SBR's even considered NFA items?
Great podcast yet again! So I wanted to buy one of those ‘contraptions’ that you could put on a pistol that will actually make it an SBR I’m wondering if it’s even worth it?! Are there any gotchas to this?? Like what if I had to move within the same state…how about out of state?? What about when traveling or perhaps use it for hunting (thinking of Glock 40 10mm into an SBR?)
Putting a brace on a pistol is still a pistol with a brace, not an sbr
The M16 was a 10-in barrel and retractables stock is a pilot M16 they have a short barrel so in case they have to bail out of the airplane if they get shot down they can jump and jump out of the airplane and grab that little short rifle I'm 16 they have a rifle to bail out of the airplane with for self-defense
Or you stop following unjust laws
Wow homie called the pistol brace letter years before.
SBRs are only cool because the ATF says you have to fill out paperwork for them. I naturally gravitate to an 18" for 5.56x45, 16" .308Win, and just run with a brace on PCCs or .300AAC. I know, the ATF doesn't like braces now. My State doesn't care.
SBR for me.
All ways thought the 16 was so I don't fit throw door ways.
This is kinda funny watching it post ATFs SBR reclassification letter.
What letter ...?
not so funny post Biden and his crazy gun plans..
Isnt it odd that something that is already made,,serialized and made takes about 20 times longer at the moment to get your paperwork done on than whatever you chose to make yourself lol. Jus fykn silly🤙
If I could have any SBR it would be a full-auto MP5👍🇺🇸
Beanie babies. Hell yeah. Stuff them things with gummi bears and you've got survival rations.
I consider my MP5 a sub gun and always have. It has always bothered me that my Govrnmt made me put a SBR Legal term to it. 16-20inch are rifles. 16-10.3inch are Carbines. These braced Pistols or Sub Guns make me laugh when called the Gun sales Buzz Word PCC's as they are not rifles and they are DEF not Carbines in any way shape or form. They are pistols with braces or Sub guns,,refering to their Sub Rifle caliber Ammo. PCC is a Gay Industry term they were able to sell the Geeky skinny jean wearing Generation to pump out dozens of different designs that ALL do the same exact thing with the same exact cartrige and NONE of them shoot or perform any better than the Submachine Gun made in 1966 so i find it all soo Comical,, at the same time i welcome EVERY RESPONSIBLE Person to be a Gun Owner by all means. I jus find this whole Generation odd. Shit when i was 18 the whole Damn Country could not own 30 round mags,,telescoping stocks,,bayonette lugs,,threaded barrels,,etc and it was jus opression on Law Abiding people and when i turned 25 it was proven as such as Gun Crime actualy rose lol. I living on Long Island at the time was soooo Happy for a Week until NY announced they were somehow keeping the bullchit ban our entire Country was jus released from.I live in GA now and realy see how bad Liberal ran States truly are and it almost feels like GA is going in that direction and im sickened that the People of this State are jus standing by and letting it happen. It comes from young people raised on screens,,not in the real world that dont realy wanna be free or Accountable for themselves,,and actualy on some sickening level prefer to be told what to do and expect handouts.Think of all our Fellow Americans who died for our Freedoms and out of straight up lazyness and Pussyness or "Soft Men" we are giving up out libertys at will!! Like WTF?? That is LITERALY the first steps of the Communist Playbook!! And now we are supprised Russia is bombing and raiding another Country today as we cant even control our own border??It didnt take "Russian Colusion",, it jus took a bunch of Leftist College Professors and a Generation of Soft White Guys.And we lost more in a Decade than the past 200 years. Its soo soo Sad for real Patriots🤙
You don't like skinny jeans?
@@MF-Rell Lol,,funny story brah. Your timing couldn't be bedda. So iv neva and would neva buy any clothing from Walmart in my life,,only this happened jus yesterday so ima say it. I was stuck in Walmart for 2 damn hours,,lets jus say with a Female. You know how that can be im sure. So i walk ova to look at Mens Boxer Shorts jus to see if they had any Silk Boxer shorts in any Cool designs and when i looked in the section where like sleeping pants and warm up pants and Sweatpants were,,first of all i thought i had died and gone to Nerd Heaven as EVERYTHING was Marvel,,or sum Comic book Character,,or marked with STAR WARS!!LMFOA,,on top of it all i could see EVERY SINGLE pair had a label on top that said SLIM DESIGN.Now first off,,if you live an active lifestyle and i mean always active like i did growing up and still do,,and your Sauseech is a halfway decent size it is impossible to feel comfortable and look cool wearing dat crap. And every WOMAN AND SMOKING HOT GIRL i have Eva asked if they think Skinny Jeans Make them Desire a MAN,,every single one of them has said NO!! So stop geeking out Guys and give the Ladies what they want!! And i dont mean the girl you met online who first revied your PROFILE lol. Im talking when you see a beautifull Woman Anywhere,,go over to her and TALK TO HER!!,Do that every possible chance you get and you will thank me i promise. And you cannot possibly approach that bad ass Woman that turns you on and think you look good wearing Skinny Shit. And what you see online an on TV is jus dat,, fantasy land. If you dont have obscene amounts of money you cannot get away wit skinny jeans on a Beautifull Fun lovin Woman who wants you to show Her the World,,make her laugh,,at the same time letting it be known in a very subtle way that when the laughing stops that you are all Man and will make her Neva forget it. Im sorry bro, skinny clothes on Dudes jus DOES NOT convey that message unless you live in,,"The Valley" or Los Angeles or sum chit where ALL the Men are Douchey,,but they have tons of money so they get away with it. Im giving you young guys fykn GOLD right here. Go ouda ya way to look Different!! Not the same as every Nerd out there,,even if ya are a bit nerdy!! Rock your own style and get a relaxed fit,,or you jus dont come across relaxed!! So no re-iterate your question,,NO my friend,,skinny clothing never made a Man feel more Confident and approachable to a Woman. And that should be your every thought at every moment until ya get married. I dont know whats goin on wit Society these days. Soon Guys are jus gonna be happy enough being their nerd selves with their Virtual Girlfriend and when that day comes we are Doomed as Homo Sapiens and it doesnt feel toooo far away at the moment🙏🤙
I'm was joking bro, I wear em but they're athletic cut. White guys wear em with shit kickers... I'm from the south in the heart of dixie and nobody cares anymore bro. We're out here just trying to enjoy life 🙃
@@MF-Rell im in Metro Atlanta myself now. Its def a bit of a Culture shock. Iv had a lot of people say they can see my style i more Nyish. Pretty much everybody. They dont seem to be talkin chit though. Im a 90's, Nike sneaker Jynkie,,mostly air max 95's and about a dozen or so limited edition 97 air max silver bullets. So people have asked me in barber shops and what not where i have got certian threads or kix. Its jus diff up North. We a bunch of Label Whore's that grew up on L.I. And Manhattan,,i admit it🙏🤙
A) wait until you learn that 18" and 20" are common carbine lengths
B) 16" is a carbine to you, and PCCs usually have 16" barrels, but PCCs aren't carbines even thought they meet your arbitrary barrel length classifications?
You sound like fykn Paris Hilton dude,,SBR's are soo Hot right now!! Lol Realy🤙
Very illegal here in New Jersey. Can't even on a standard-length AR here.
No "pistol" ARs, no suppressers, no pistol braces, no SBRs or SBS, not even the Mossberg Shockwave....YMMV.
Why does nj elect dudes that let their wives have boyfriends?
@@blueridgewarden2838 Why does anyone with any common sense reside in NJ ~the armpit of America?
Shit took me 11 months.
I bet Mark has a 12" barreled 300wsm.
23:40 Humvees door
Always wanted to be on a podcast...lol...made a impression....yall are all welcome to come shoot hogs with me in Texas....wait...except for Mr.Whizum...and Texas jokester .....nahhh jk..yall can come too....need someone to load mags and carry water..😉..on a serious keep.up the great podcasts!!
Nothing, and I mean nothing, gets in a tree stand and around the thick pine forests of the southeast better than a Daniel Defense PDW300 with a 9” barrel and a red dot, and the .300 AAC will handle deer at those ranges (75-100 yards and in) no problem.
JUST heard ATF is going to Outlaw Pink AR's !
Sorry, you misread that.. the ATF is outlawing everything except pink guns!
MK18 barrel convo was funny yet not entirely correct.
Well if you like giving up all your info to the ATF, SBR reg is free for 120 days...
They are nine wouldn't be no good for deer hunting no because it wouldn't have enough shock power or penetration at 100 yards or further for deer hunting you just end up wanting the deer and having to track it it wouldn't be good for penetration and stopping power at 100 yards or further maybe 50 yards will be all right but anything maybe pass for 50 yards that I don't think it'd be worth a damn I don't think it'd have enough penetration or stopping power to actually kill a deer past the 50 yard or past 100 yards I mean if you would just end up wounding the deer
You can’t take a rifle lower and turn it into a pistol. You can turn a rifle into a pistol however. When filing a form 1 you can do whatever you want as the previous classification and manufacturer don’t matter. In the ATF’s eyes you are now the manufacturer
Your TAC light is so 1999
16" regulation came to be after uncle sam sold a bunch of surplus m1 carbines to the public and then realized they just violated their own regulations.
Gun Owners: “Registration leads to confiscation.
Also Gun Owners “Yeah, I just bought another Can/filed another Form”
Me: 👀
Exactly 😂😂😂
It's really hard to make a quality suppressor.
You're also already on a list. ATF's been compiling 4473 on a registry for years. Anyone that's ever bought a gun from a shop, NFA or not, is on a list. We're past being on the list.
That didn’t look like short barrel rifle
When are we gonna start being patriotic men and say NO we will NOT follow unconstitutional arbitrary laws....
Go ahead and register yo crack pipes !
The video didn't age well
*Laughs in bullpup*
This aged like fine cheese...stinking ATF.
I wonder if you guys feel the same way now with all the BS gun grabbers are doing
I sure wish you guys would show your phone number at the end of your advertisement or into your segment so I can get your phone number for your company so I can give you guys a call and make life a lot easier for your consumers so we can call you guys
To bad the ATf is coming for us all. 🇺🇸