Should it not be as easy to get a 250sx and get a 300 cylinder and piston like what we have done with ktms for the last 10 years? I hope they dont make it a nightmare to wrench on😂
As a 44 year old who was raised on 2 stroke it just warms my hesrt to see new tech hitting these 2 smokers!! They were almost gone but now more and more are falling back in love to the sweet sound and raw exilleration of a 2 stroke!!
Already put a down payment on one at my local dealer. I’ll get the first one that comes into Ohio! I’ll have a 300sx and a 2008 cr500af. Long live 2 strokes
Ktm basically built a 3 Stoke! A 2 stroke with 4 stroke roll on torque I've been dreaming of this bike for a long time and ktm by the riders reactions nailed it. Love the in depth sit down over the bike 👍🏼lots more of this please.
I chose the 250 because it revs higher and it seems to lug fine for me. And I'm 230 lbs. I also have a 450 four-stroke that I really like a lot. Talk about a chugger up hills. My bike's have the exact same frame and suspension but completely different personalities. I actually find the four-stroke better in the whoops and for hill climbing. But the two stroke is fun for just flat-out 2-stroke madness.
One of my favorite stories in MX history is the story of the Honda CRF150... After the '08 financial crisis, Honda's obsession with pushing four strokes left them out in the cold with their mini. And so nice to see all these years later that the young guys get to ride two stroke 65/85cc bikes. If the financial crisis hit in '98-00 we wouldn't have any four stroke MX bikes today. They were never illegal in the first place.
250 2 stroke qualified everytime against 450 lucas outdoor, check out Matt Burkeens channel, great 2 stroke action ..I'm looking at a 300 ktm 2 stoker now , I'm always racing against 450s on yz250..I've never liked the 4 chokers, I wasted time fixing sucked valves. F Honda too ..they were crying no 250 2 stroke in 250F class lol bitches
Great video guys. Love how you guys decided to compare it to the 350SXF and dive deep into the differences in power character and answered all of the questions most of us consumers will have. Excellent work! Thanks.
My buddy just got one...I took it for a rip for a couple laps last week.... I Have RMZ 250... Instantaneously I was like how much do you think I can get for my bike.... I have to have one of these! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 Everything he said is 100% true!!
I was first in line with my local dealer for a 2023 Husqvarna TC250 until I saw this video (and Jeff Walker's). Now, I'm third in line for a 300SX. This is the bike to have right now. Can't wait!
I have a 350 and am seriously considering the 300 next. This video is really making me excited to see it released. Good video and information. Great to see more comparison data between bikes compared to most so far. Thanks guys!
I loved the engine on my XCW300, hated the suspension... wayyyyy too soft even in tight single track for me. And i imagine the XCW's gearing makes a huge difference compared to this SX300, I doubt you can lug the SX as much but the positive of that is that you dont need that lugging power in motocross so first/second gear is more usable and the engine will feelsnappier and 'alive' in comparison.
Dude was saying it has less power than a 350F though, which has me 2nd guessing it, as I like 450 power, I just don’t like the high inertia, heavier feel of the 450F which is something that isn’t that much of a gripe, because I really like my 450 still. She’s bad!!
Sold my fe350 for a xcw300 and it was the best decision I've ever made. I feel like everyone has a different opinion on the suspension but I love it. The 300's rip!
@@shawntblin5423 the dude is smoking something if he actually thinks it has 350 power. I have an 18 ktm 250 2 stroke and a 19 ktm 350 4 stroke. My 250 has way more power than my 350. You dont notice it until you load them. Big sandy climbs is where i really saw the difference. My 350 wouldnt climb the big sandy hill i was trying. Only about 1/2 way up and had to turn out. No joke my 250 would hold a wheelie in 4th over the top. Tried it multiple times. Back to back. Both are stock as far as performance goes and both are in really good condition. I'm sure the new 300 has to have more power than my 250
Great review! I have a KTM 350 SX-F and I'm seriously looking at the 300 2 stroke. My biggest concern with the 2 stroke is riding hard pack tracks. I own the 350 4 stroke so I can tractor through the hard pack and not light up the rear tire. I like to lug the bike around. I'm old and lazy. If the 300 can tractor through hard pack turns and not need to be shifted every second, then I'm in. I 'm looking forward to a full, longer test of the 300, but thank you for the insight. I'm excited! I may be mixing oil and gas...again. And thank you KTM for all the 2 stroke developement! Thanks again for the review.
These bikes gotta have an ass load of bottom end. My 04 rm250 felt like a tractor and I could ride soft deep sand with a paddle tire and it never had a hard time even in low rpms. I'd imagine this 300 is even better
In amateur racing, including Lorettas I believe still, you can ride the 250sx in the lites class. why wouldnt you then be allowed 50cc extra for the 450 class?
Bike is so sick, almost wish the 300 would have been out before before I picked up the 22.5 450 Husky, awesome breakdown of the bike, it definitely took me a minute to get used to the start/stop on the right as well 😆 🤙
I went back to 2-strokes in 2018 and after just a few minutes on my very first ride I wished I had done it years early. I spent too many years trying to make a 450 work in conditions it just wasn't meant for and taking all the fun out of riding. I feel like I'm a teenager again on my 300's rather than an old guy riding around in 3rd gear being lazy, I'm attacking and one with the bike something only a pro level racer in extremely good shape is capable of on a 450...and those days are behind me. DO IT :)
300-325cc in a two stroke is the power equivalent to the 450 four stroke when you take rpm into consideration. HP=TQxRPM/5252. Two stroke 250's get 8500 rpm, four strokes get 11,000. That's why the first four stroke MX bike they came out with WAS a 400. 1998 YZ400F. When they realized that a 400 wasn't going to out power the 250 two stroke and that most guys can't do 7th grade algebra, they slowly inched up the cc to 450. Which gave the appearance that the two stroke was obsolete. So let them run 300's against 450's and they'll find the lighter bike is faster overall. Then the four stroke will be abandoned completely.
And then most manufacturers would be upset and pull out from Racing as Said from Honda. Then KTM, Husqvarna, and Yahama will be the the only ones. Or better yet a hybird year just like 2005 2 strokes and 4 strokes power difference and rider preference.
@@microsoft790 Yes and I think the Japanese companies are so beholden to the government for bailing them out financially that they will promote the political causes despite the fact that MX bikes are closed course bikes and were never subject to emissions laws. So the two stroke was never illegal in MX. GO KTM!!
I chuckle at all the new riders talking about stuff like "aggressive lag/acceleration" of today's two strokes. You should have ridden a Pro/Expert level 250cc motocross scooter back in the early/mid 70's. They were ported up for max power in a very small high rpm range. It was the riders' job to find a style that allowed you to keep it "on pipe" (a guy who held an AMA Expert Class license in 250cc Motocross, and 250/350 Road Race and raced on a Yoshimura Yamaha YZ-250 in the early/mid 70's (I beat Jeff Ward the only time I faced him) and raced at Daytona in '75 on a privateer TZ-350 D).
its harder to go from 4st to a 2st back to back......having a 300 ( has quite a bit more than 250 or the 300 xc i rode was much broader anyway) definetly would help especially if it has broad powerband (for 2st).....used to ride 500cc 2 st back in the day.........the 300 has always been a well sought after machine.......now they make an sx version again is sick!.....love to ride one
@@Mineratron So good you replaced with Cone valves and Trax shock! Can't be that good then. With KYB you wouldn't need to. I've been on KTM since late teens and this year I'm 44. Now on a Yamaha for the first time and the KYB suspension is leagues ahead of WP units.
@@twowheelpilot got cones and trax on my 15 300EXC… 😝 as decent as the 15 OC’s were, they’re not suited to riding in the dunes. Closed cartridge required to stay out the air ambulance. 🤪😅🍻
We’ve seen 350’s win multiple MXGP titles not too long ago, so give it to us straight Vital. If AMA/FIM bumps the cc limit on the 2banger to 300, how competitive is this thing?
I don't think it could compete with a 450 in supercross... and outdoors it would be very hard for it. first moto it would be good if it's not ripped too deep dragging the engine down but when it's baked and rough in the second motos the 450s will destroy it with all the torque and traction a 450 gets... the tracks also break down differently these days because of the 4 strokes compared to 2 stroke days, so that makes a difference. So maybe it would be competitive in practice and first motos when lines are developing and smooth, but not over the course of the whole day... the 450 has so much power and traction combined with being lighter than ever. Plus riders these days have never raced 2 strokes after getting off of 85's and superminis, so they don't even know how to really ride a 2 stroke... their style is catered around the way 4 strokes are ridden, so even though it wouldn't be the bikes fault, it'd put it at more of a disadvantage. Now local A and B class (not loreattas/ national caliber races), the 300 would be really really good. From speed to track breakdown/lines, It's just a different world in AMA pro motocross.
The professional bikes are a whole different breed. Completely built engines as far as Im aware. The thing is its much easier to squeeze a lot more power from a 4 stroke, I think it would be tough for them to make the 300s reach that kind of power. Would need a lot of porting, probably even need to destroke the bike.
I think its prob a bit early to praise it so much because most offroaders like to ride "in the bog". If you give them a high compression head for more actual pull down low most dont like it saying its "too responsive/snappy" and thats exactly what FI does.. So ill be interested to see the 300xc offroad tests.
Alright alright you guys, chill out. Time for the $0.02 of an OG ex Am B local champion and KTM nut who bleeds orange. I kept trying to figure out if the go pro rider was an Expert or Pro... DEFINATELY a Pro rider (found out it's Jacob Hayes, National AX Champion) so I listened keenly to his assessment. Pretty spot on. I don't think when he says the 300 had a bit less power he meant actual HP, prolly more of a feel. 2 strokes by nature rev up very quickly, that was the main issue with early 4 chokes, took too long to spool up. Now I'm guessing with super light flywheels and the fact they rev to 14,000 rpm they feel less like the old 4 chokes and more like 2 smokes. I'm betting if you looked at dyno readings from both bikes the HP figures are a lot closer than his seat of the pant feel. What he says about manageability is spot on. I'm the proud owner of a, ahem, 2003 KTM250SX 2 stroke, and at the crank that engine had SIXTY HP, at the rear wheel about 50.1. 😧😲😧 yup, she put KTM on the map via Jeremy McGrath, Pit Beirer, and John Junkyard Dowd, whose factory Nationals bike I tested at KTM Regional Manager, Dan Salamone's request. Every now and then a factory will give us what we say we want, a Factory Bike replica. I followed the progression of the 250 2T model over the years and yes, the new bike has LESS HP than mine to make it more ridable for guys who aren't as fast as this test rider. Mods I added were Factory Connection revalve and springs, Regina o-ring chain, Steahly 6 oz. flywheel, 2 tooth larger rear sprocket (gets to 3rd gear sooner) and Pro Circuit McGrath pipe and FMF shorty silencer (add low end better transition from low to mid). That tamed the beast but still kept the violent character of the factory engine. How fast was it stock? Imagine clicking up to 4th on a long straight and near the top of 4th gear she goes into a MASSIVE wheelie... I'm talking spitting you off the back like a brahma bull.😧 Dunno how I managed to save it but I can tell you my KX500s never ever did that. This 250 spools up like 125 on a pharmacy full of steroids... Lol CHASSIS development took them almost 7 years to catch up to the engine, and even then they still refined both even more. Today's 250SX works better than the factory bikes Dowd was racing in 2000 and 2001. Today's bikes are near factory bike level and quality, you guys have to make it fit YOU. I adore my KTM and KTMs in general. I really admire this test. I'll be watching Vital MX for more. * True fact* The principal of Vital MX was an A-Pro BMX racer when I just moved up to the B Pro class. So neat that I saw him in the magazines as a racer, now I see him in this world of moto with engines. 😎 Steve Giberson, moto knows him as Guy B. Truck on Steve, well done with Vital MX 💪🏻🇺🇲🏁🇯🇲💪🏽 - Deacon Michael James www.cycleinsider.com/2003-Ktm-250-SX-Motorcycles-Motorcycle-Reviews?type=Motorcycles&model=250%20SX&year=2003&make=KTM Everything I did to my bike was what other racers did. 2003 KTM 250SX Classic Bike Review themotocrossvault.com/2020/01/19/2003-ktm-250sx-classic-bike-review/
@@Jake_Hynds my man, The 2003 ktm250sx was FASTER than the ktm450f of the same year. 7 time SX champion McGrath had NO engine work done to his bikes, only a Pro Circuit pipe and silencer to smooth the transition from low to upper mid-range. That bike was frighteningly fast. Dunno where you got you info from but the info is WRONG. 😧 Dan Salamone confirmed what the testers at Dirt Bike and MXA said, the pre production bikes was even FASTER than what they sent to the public. Someone came to their senses and realized they selling mostly to Amateur racers, not thousands of Pros. Here's the test, see for yourself. You tell me it's a 41 hp dirt bike would elicit these responses. 41 hp is YZ250 territory. I met at riding buddy at Raceway Park in NJ and he had just gotten a full Pro Circuit pro level engine kit in his 2003 YZ250. He asked if we could swap bikes a for a few laps. He came back and asked who did the motor work. When I told him it was bone stock his face soured. His heavily modified YZ wasn't even close to the stock 250SX. dirtbikemagazine-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/dirtbikemagazine.com/dirt-bike-test-ktm-250sx-nov-6/?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16533169796720&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fdirtbikemagazine.com%2Fdirt-bike-test-ktm-250sx-nov-6%2F
@@vetb882 well well facts with no proof is not facts where is the dyno video of a stalk 03 ktm 250sx making that on a dyno... there is no video or proof so your facts are not facts
I always hear that it is as fast, but there isn’t a straight hit from the power valve. It smoothens out that power band throughout which they say is a plus.
300 vs. 450 is still not a fair fight. Did the FI make the bike faster than a carb? It looked good, but that track was flat, and that bike was a one off wonder. Let's see the production bikes in October. Fun bike with great crossover off road capabilities, as a straiqht MX bike it's a novelty.
You are not alone 😎 I got a 2022 EXC 150TPI this spring, and this bike is already impressing, but lacking of course the ooomph of my YZ250. The 300SX would be perfect
Was hoping it had comparable power to the 450, this guy is saying it feels less than a 350F, which has me questioning if I would want it. I wish they showed us HP comparison between the line up. After selling my brand new 250 4stroke to get a 450 for more power, I wouldn’t want to go back to less power. I don’t race, I just like having the 450s power when riding at the mx-track. They new 450s are still heavy(high inirtia), but they are tamed beast with all the tune-ability from stock and can turn now. I use to get arm pump bad and have to pull off on my old carbureted 450F. With my new 450F, with roll on power, I no longer get it. Also, 4 stroke engine decel to me is a good thing, less braking required. If you don’t want it to decel, keep the power on longer as needed.
I'm not sure if I want the 300sx or 350sxf. I think the 2 stroke is maintenance more often but I think the four strokes are engine out just to do the top end. I also ride a lot of amateur kicker arenacross. I think the 350sxf would be a better choice for that.
@@samuel123478 I was laughing at that. I was using my 1990 Homelite SXL 80cc chainsaw yesterday and was cracking up at how much of a monster that thing is and how loud it is, and how similar it is to a dirt bike.
If a 300 two stoke is better than a 250 two stroke…… then wouldn’t a 350 two stroke be better than a 300 two stroke? You see where I am going with this. Cmon KTM, please build a batch of modern 500 two strokes!!!!
I’d love to see a 300 kit for the 250 four stroke for us light-weight vet racers. Especially in the off-road segment. Red Moto makes a great kit partnered with Athena for the 22’ CRF250R and it’s really successful in the Euro GP.
Tons of people want 250 2t to run in the 250 4 stroke class, as do I. I love 2strokes but no way is a 300 competitive against a 450 comparing just the bikes. 400-450 2t would probably be more equal. Anyone who shoots off random dyno numbers is a fool. You can make them say what ever you want. Test the same bikes on the same dyno on the same day to get useable data.
Imagine doing full work on the 300 engine and it would have been a match for the 450, just look at redbull straight rythm, twisted developments 325, i mean you could make it even faster, and its lighter. AMA reconsider 300 to be allowed in the 450 class.
The two strokes just won't be as consistent with putting the power to the ground as efficiently as the 4 strokes over the period of an entire race. Yes this one is easier to ride than in the past but for professional racing the 450 will still have the advantage. Now on a local level it could be a different story.
Msrp $9,099. I already have the first one arriving to Ohio secured. Traded in my 18 crf450 with 40 hours on it and $1200 down. I’ll still owe $2,899 on it when i pick it up in august/September
@@YZFMX256 not that bad, i would have to put a hefty down payment on it. But would be so worth it never. thought i would into KTMs Until now as i wanted to get a YZ250 2 stroke
In Australia it works out worse. I can’t afford an off road dedicated bike but the gas gas 300ec or ktm (road legal here). Maybe I’ll get lucky and get 2 bikes (same likelihood of me winning Tattslotto than having 2 late model 300’s) I’m happy with an erzberg 300 for my ultimate bike
I like it sounds so badass. It's a new era TPI Two Strokes, modern 4 stroke tech on 2 stroke. Not having to mess with rhe carb and jett is so sick and vibration is few.
I don't understand how the 300 2 stroke is "a little less" power-wise than the 350, as there is now only 50cc difference. Also, the specs call out the new 300sx having 57 crank hp. With the 450 making 61-something hp, how dang much hp does that 350 4 stroke make? sheez. I almost wish KTM would've made the 300 2 stroke with a lightswitch powerband instead of with "smooth roll-on" power as this racer described it in the interview, in order to just finally get a 2 stroke that is competitive with the big-bore 4 strokes.
@@daffyduck9901 I'm saying it more in the context of the people that never really 2 strokes are the ones who want they're new to them 2 strokes to be like a 4 stroke.
Cause the pros just tell it how it is. You dont get fanboy opinions. Especially from the 2 stroke riders. They still believe the 250 2 strokes match todays 450s 🤦♂️
KTM has had the 300xc for years and now that KTM puts SX in the name people are all crazy over it. Also, If these same people wouldn't have degraded the 2 stroke Honda and others would still be making them. 2 stroke lovers are so lucky KTM and Yamaha didn't give up on the 2 stroke. The races are so screwed up concerning 2 strokes , you won't be able to race the KTM 300SX because of the rules.
It’s interesting, there have been other testers who said the 300 has felt faster than the 450. The 300 makes more peak torque than the 350 and about the same horsepower.
I WAS going to buy one of these. Not now. Not when there is no kick starter or anyway to add one. That's retarted. And it makes every one completely vulnerable. If it's around a circle track like motocross maybe. But out in the woods? No way. They lost a sale on me. In fact I'm about to sell all my KTM's and buy brands that offer kickstarters.
Well hopefully they make a million of these 300 everyone is gonna want a piece ! As do I
Should it not be as easy to get a 250sx and get a 300 cylinder and piston like what we have done with ktms for the last 10 years? I hope they dont make it a nightmare to wrench on😂
100%! I think these are going to run out quicker than they can hit the floor😭
As a 44 year old who was raised on 2 stroke it just warms my hesrt to see new tech hitting these 2 smokers!! They were almost gone but now more and more are falling back in love to the sweet sound and raw exilleration of a 2 stroke!!
I think I want a red one
Already put a down payment on one at my local dealer. I’ll get the first one that comes into Ohio! I’ll have a 300sx and a 2008 cr500af. Long live 2 strokes
Great man 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼
You not worried about the tbi with the injector clogging up with 2 stroke oil?🤔 deffs has me thinking how the reliability will go with the injector!
@@matthewwest1262 nope. It’s the same as on a 4stroke, and I’ve had my 450 for 4 years no issue.
bonus points if you slap a old 360 or 380 decal over the 300 lol
I'm happy for you, man I'd be happy to have one 😎
Ktm basically built a 3 Stoke! A 2 stroke with 4 stroke roll on torque I've been dreaming of this bike for a long time and ktm by the riders reactions nailed it. Love the in depth sit down over the bike 👍🏼lots more of this please.
This 300 "sounds like" EXACTLY what I want..... FINALLY!
I chose the 250 because it revs higher and it seems to lug fine for me. And I'm 230 lbs. I also have a 450 four-stroke that I really like a lot. Talk about a chugger up hills. My bike's have the exact same frame and suspension but completely different personalities. I actually find the four-stroke better in the whoops and for hill climbing. But the two stroke is fun for just flat-out 2-stroke madness.
One of my favorite stories in MX history is the story of the Honda CRF150... After the '08 financial crisis, Honda's obsession with pushing four strokes left them out in the cold with their mini. And so nice to see all these years later that the young guys get to ride two stroke 65/85cc bikes. If the financial crisis hit in '98-00 we wouldn't have any four stroke MX bikes today. They were never illegal in the first place.
they gave 4stroke twice the cc advantage
250 2 stroke qualified everytime against 450 lucas outdoor, check out Matt Burkeens channel, great 2 stroke action ..I'm looking at a 300 ktm 2 stoker now , I'm always racing against 450s on yz250..I've never liked the 4 chokers, I wasted time fixing sucked valves. F Honda too ..they were crying no 250 2 stroke in 250F class lol bitches
@@superfan311 brother in Christ, they ride 250t against 250f in Australia and the fastest bikes are still 250f...
@@janniksims5740 aussies can't ride two strokes properly? huh, TIL
@superfan311 Honda straight sucks now whether bikes or vehicles.
I remember reading for years and years (I'm 64) that we would never see a fuel injected two smoke mx bike and here we are.
Excellent questions were asked of the test rider. Really really good interview 👍
Great questions. My last two stroke was the 250sx with 300 kit, it was the perfect bike. These look and sound great
Same
Great video guys. Love how you guys decided to compare it to the 350SXF and dive deep into the differences in power character and answered all of the questions most of us consumers will have. Excellent work! Thanks.
My buddy just got one...I took it for a rip for a couple laps last week.... I Have RMZ 250... Instantaneously I was like how much do you think I can get for my bike.... I have to have one of these! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 Everything he said is 100% true!!
I was first in line with my local dealer for a 2023 Husqvarna TC250 until I saw this video (and Jeff Walker's). Now, I'm third in line for a 300SX. This is the bike to have right now. Can't wait!
I have a 350 and am seriously considering the 300 next. This video is really making me excited to see it released. Good video and information. Great to see more comparison data between bikes compared to most so far. Thanks guys!
I loved the engine on my XCW300, hated the suspension... wayyyyy too soft even in tight single track for me. And i imagine the XCW's gearing makes a huge difference compared to this SX300, I doubt you can lug the SX as much but the positive of that is that you dont need that lugging power in motocross so first/second gear is more usable and the engine will feelsnappier and 'alive' in comparison.
Dude was saying it has less power than a 350F though, which has me 2nd guessing it, as I like 450 power, I just don’t like the high inertia, heavier feel of the 450F which is something that isn’t that much of a gripe, because I really like my 450 still. She’s bad!!
Sold my fe350 for a xcw300 and it was the best decision I've ever made. I feel like everyone has a different opinion on the suspension but I love it. The 300's rip!
@@shawntblin5423 the dude is smoking something if he actually thinks it has 350 power. I have an 18 ktm 250 2 stroke and a 19 ktm 350 4 stroke. My 250 has way more power than my 350. You dont notice it until you load them. Big sandy climbs is where i really saw the difference. My 350 wouldnt climb the big sandy hill i was trying. Only about 1/2 way up and had to turn out. No joke my 250 would hold a wheelie in 4th over the top. Tried it multiple times. Back to back. Both are stock as far as performance goes and both are in really good condition. I'm sure the new 300 has to have more power than my 250
Great review! I have a KTM 350 SX-F and I'm seriously looking at the 300 2 stroke. My biggest concern with the 2 stroke is riding hard pack tracks. I own the 350 4 stroke so I can tractor through the hard pack and not light up the rear tire. I like to lug the bike around. I'm old and lazy. If the 300 can tractor through hard pack turns and not need to be shifted every second, then I'm in. I 'm looking forward to a full, longer test of the 300, but thank you for the insight. I'm excited! I may be mixing oil and gas...again. And thank you KTM for all the 2 stroke developement! Thanks again for the review.
These bikes gotta have an ass load of bottom end. My 04 rm250 felt like a tractor and I could ride soft deep sand with a paddle tire and it never had a hard time even in low rpms. I'd imagine this 300 is even better
@@Zoom-ui2pf same here, 2005 rm250 tons of bottom end power
Mike Lindsey to Jacob Hayes “Okay Jacob. Here’s the question everyone’s asking, How much does it cost, and who can afford it?”
In amateur racing, including Lorettas I believe still, you can ride the 250sx in the lites class. why wouldnt you then be allowed 50cc extra for the 450 class?
Let’s see some lap times from 2t and 4t rather than blowing smoke
Bike is so sick, almost wish the 300 would have been out before before I picked up the 22.5 450 Husky, awesome breakdown of the bike, it definitely took me a minute to get used to the start/stop on the right as well 😆 🤙
Have one of each lol
@@chrisbuehler6868 I'm down, my wife probably not so much, sometimes it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission 😅
@@holeshotinspectionllc2412 I'm in the same boat my friend lmao
@@holeshotinspectionllc2412 I can’t wait for the day that I can have 3-4 bikes
@@Smokebag 💯
Never thought I'd ever consider a 2 stroke again but if it's easier to ride then my 21 350 I'd be enticed
I also have a 21 350sx, what part is giving you trouble?
I went back to 2-strokes in 2018 and after just a few minutes on my very first ride I wished I had done it years early. I spent too many years trying to make a 450 work in conditions it just wasn't meant for and taking all the fun out of riding. I feel like I'm a teenager again on my 300's rather than an old guy riding around in 3rd gear being lazy, I'm attacking and one with the bike something only a pro level racer in extremely good shape is capable of on a 450...and those days are behind me. DO IT :)
300-325cc in a two stroke is the power equivalent to the 450 four stroke when you take rpm into consideration. HP=TQxRPM/5252. Two stroke 250's get 8500 rpm, four strokes get 11,000. That's why the first four stroke MX bike they came out with WAS a 400. 1998 YZ400F. When they realized that a 400 wasn't going to out power the 250 two stroke and that most guys can't do 7th grade algebra, they slowly inched up the cc to 450. Which gave the appearance that the two stroke was obsolete. So let them run 300's against 450's and they'll find the lighter bike is faster overall. Then the four stroke will be abandoned completely.
And then most manufacturers would be upset and pull out from Racing as Said from Honda. Then KTM, Husqvarna, and Yahama will be the the only ones.
Or better yet a hybird year just like 2005 2 strokes and 4 strokes power difference and rider preference.
👍👍
you are 100% correct. they just need to wise up and stop playing politics, give consumers what they want
@@microsoft790 Yes and I think the Japanese companies are so beholden to the government for bailing them out financially that they will promote the political causes despite the fact that MX bikes are closed course bikes and were never subject to emissions laws. So the two stroke was never illegal in MX. GO KTM!!
The 450’s can rev so much higher these days, that’s where they run away from the smokers nowadays. Stock 450 makes 62hp out the crate. It’s nuts.
They showed a 500 big bore kit for the 300 on Kaplan America yesterday !!!
My 22 300 XC is a blast on the track, hard to imagine that it's going to get even better with this 23 model!
I chuckle at all the new riders talking about stuff like "aggressive lag/acceleration" of today's two strokes. You should have ridden a Pro/Expert level 250cc motocross scooter back in the early/mid 70's. They were ported up for max power in a very small high rpm range. It was the riders' job to find a style that allowed you to keep it "on pipe" (a guy who held an AMA Expert Class license in 250cc Motocross, and 250/350 Road Race and raced on a Yoshimura Yamaha YZ-250 in the early/mid 70's (I beat Jeff Ward the only time I faced him) and raced at Daytona in '75 on a privateer TZ-350 D).
Which track is that ?
its harder to go from 4st to a 2st back to back......having a 300 ( has quite a bit more than 250 or the 300 xc i rode was much broader anyway) definetly would help especially if it has broad powerband (for 2st).....used to ride 500cc 2 st back in the day.........the 300 has always been a well sought after machine.......now they make an sx version again is sick!.....love to ride one
soo better bike is sxf 450 or 300sx on track?
Thanks ml512 you know how to ask the best questions and you reviews are the best.
Thank god KTM ditched TPi! Finally seen the light. Shame they don't come with KYB SSS fork and KYB shock.
I’ve ridden the 2021.5 Factory & 2022 450SX-F in the desert and the suspension was great. I run cones and trax on my own bike. Decent out the box.
@@Mineratron So good you replaced with Cone valves and Trax shock! Can't be that good then. With KYB you wouldn't need to. I've been on KTM since late teens and this year I'm 44. Now on a Yamaha for the first time and the KYB suspension is leagues ahead of WP units.
@@twowheelpilot except I didn’t, not on those bikes, they weren’t mine… 😄
@@Mineratron lol, the best kind. Safe riding bud
@@twowheelpilot got cones and trax on my 15 300EXC… 😝 as decent as the 15 OC’s were, they’re not suited to riding in the dunes. Closed cartridge required to stay out the air ambulance. 🤪😅🍻
We’ve seen 350’s win multiple MXGP titles not too long ago, so give it to us straight Vital. If AMA/FIM bumps the cc limit on the 2banger to 300, how competitive is this thing?
I don't think it could compete with a 450 in supercross... and outdoors it would be very hard for it. first moto it would be good if it's not ripped too deep dragging the engine down but when it's baked and rough in the second motos the 450s will destroy it with all the torque and traction a 450 gets... the tracks also break down differently these days because of the 4 strokes compared to 2 stroke days, so that makes a difference.
So maybe it would be competitive in practice and first motos when lines are developing and smooth, but not over the course of the whole day... the 450 has so much power and traction combined with being lighter than ever. Plus riders these days have never raced 2 strokes after getting off of 85's and superminis, so they don't even know how to really ride a 2 stroke... their style is catered around the way 4 strokes are ridden, so even though it wouldn't be the bikes fault, it'd put it at more of a disadvantage.
Now local A and B class (not loreattas/ national caliber races), the 300 would be really really good. From speed to track breakdown/lines, It's just a different world in AMA pro motocross.
The professional bikes are a whole different breed. Completely built engines as far as Im aware. The thing is its much easier to squeeze a lot more power from a 4 stroke, I think it would be tough for them to make the 300s reach that kind of power. Would need a lot of porting, probably even need to destroke the bike.
They will sell out before they hit the showroom floors!
I'm first at my dealership just waiting feels like forever!
I think its prob a bit early to praise it so much because most offroaders like to ride "in the bog". If you give them a high compression head for more actual pull down low most dont like it saying its "too responsive/snappy" and thats exactly what FI does.. So ill be interested to see the 300xc offroad tests.
300 would be sweet. But the good thing about a 250sx here in aus is that you can race a 250sx in both mx1 and mx2 classes
How about some footage of the 250 SX?
Vital can you please do a review on the 250sx all the reviews seem to be on the 125 & 300! It is ok isn’t it? I’ve got one ordered🤞
please do a video of first impressions of the new 125!! PLEASE
Price?
Two things you’re gonna be shocked at the price second the weight are 2 strokes making a comeback no not in racing it’s a play bike
Alright alright you guys, chill out. Time for the $0.02 of an OG ex Am B local champion and KTM nut who bleeds orange.
I kept trying to figure out if the go pro rider was an Expert or Pro... DEFINATELY a Pro rider (found out it's Jacob Hayes, National AX Champion) so I listened keenly to his assessment. Pretty spot on.
I don't think when he says the 300 had a bit less power he meant actual HP, prolly more of a feel. 2 strokes by nature rev up very quickly, that was the main issue with early 4 chokes, took too long to spool up. Now I'm guessing with super light flywheels and the fact they rev to 14,000 rpm they feel less like the old 4 chokes and more like 2 smokes. I'm betting if you looked at dyno readings from both bikes the HP figures are a lot closer than his seat of the pant feel.
What he says about manageability is spot on. I'm the proud owner of a, ahem, 2003 KTM250SX 2 stroke, and at the crank that engine had SIXTY HP, at the rear wheel about 50.1. 😧😲😧 yup, she put KTM on the map via Jeremy McGrath, Pit Beirer, and John Junkyard Dowd, whose factory Nationals bike I tested at KTM Regional Manager, Dan Salamone's request. Every now and then a factory will give us what we say we want, a Factory Bike replica.
I followed the progression of the 250 2T model over the years and yes, the new bike has LESS HP than mine to make it more ridable for guys who aren't as fast as this test rider.
Mods I added were Factory Connection revalve and springs, Regina o-ring chain, Steahly 6 oz. flywheel, 2 tooth larger rear sprocket (gets to 3rd gear sooner) and Pro Circuit McGrath pipe and FMF shorty silencer (add low end better transition from low to mid). That tamed the beast but still kept the violent character of the factory engine. How fast was it stock? Imagine clicking up to 4th on a long straight and near the top of 4th gear she goes into a MASSIVE wheelie... I'm talking spitting you off the back like a brahma bull.😧 Dunno how I managed to save it but I can tell you my KX500s never ever did that. This 250 spools up like 125 on a pharmacy full of steroids... Lol
CHASSIS development took them almost 7 years to catch up to the engine, and even then they still refined both even more. Today's 250SX works better than the factory bikes Dowd was racing in 2000 and 2001. Today's bikes are near factory bike level and quality, you guys have to make it fit YOU.
I adore my KTM and KTMs in general. I really admire this test. I'll be watching Vital MX for more.
* True fact*
The principal of Vital MX was an A-Pro BMX racer when I just moved up to the B Pro class. So neat that I saw him in the magazines as a racer, now I see him in this world of moto with engines. 😎
Steve Giberson, moto knows him as Guy B. Truck on Steve, well done with Vital MX
💪🏻🇺🇲🏁🇯🇲💪🏽
- Deacon Michael James
www.cycleinsider.com/2003-Ktm-250-SX-Motorcycles-Motorcycle-Reviews?type=Motorcycles&model=250%20SX&year=2003&make=KTM
Everything I did to my bike was what other racers did.
2003 KTM 250SX Classic Bike Review
themotocrossvault.com/2020/01/19/2003-ktm-250sx-classic-bike-review/
ktm250 sx was at 43 hp in 03 it still to this day in 2022 the 2022 ktm250sx makes under 50....
@@Jake_Hynds my man, The 2003 ktm250sx was FASTER than the ktm450f of the same year. 7 time SX champion McGrath had NO engine work done to his bikes, only a Pro Circuit pipe and silencer to smooth the transition from low to upper mid-range. That bike was frighteningly fast. Dunno where you got you info from but the info is WRONG. 😧
Dan Salamone confirmed what the testers at Dirt Bike and MXA said, the pre production bikes was even FASTER than what they sent to the public. Someone came to their senses and realized they selling mostly to Amateur racers, not thousands of Pros.
Here's the test, see for yourself. You tell me it's a 41 hp dirt bike would elicit these responses. 41 hp is YZ250 territory. I met at riding buddy at Raceway Park in NJ and he had just gotten a full Pro Circuit pro level engine kit in his 2003 YZ250. He asked if we could swap bikes a for a few laps. He came back and asked who did the motor work. When I told him it was bone stock his face soured. His heavily modified YZ wasn't even close to the stock 250SX.
dirtbikemagazine-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/dirtbikemagazine.com/dirt-bike-test-ktm-250sx-nov-6/?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16533169796720&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fdirtbikemagazine.com%2Fdirt-bike-test-ktm-250sx-nov-6%2F
@@vetb882 I'm not reading all that and that link you said is basically useless
@@Jake_Hynds NP I'm still insisting bike had 58.5 HP at crank, and 49.7 to 50.1 at the rear wheel counting loss thru the chain. Facts is facts bruh.
@@vetb882 well well facts with no proof is not facts where is the dyno video of a stalk 03 ktm 250sx making that on a dyno... there is no video or proof so your facts are not facts
Just check your lap times with the GoPro footage.
I have never ridden a 4 suck and I never will they are garbage machines that ruiened motocross.These new 2 strokes are god given.
Do the Fuel Injected 2 strokes still have the 2 stroke hit?
I always hear that it is as fast, but there isn’t a straight hit from the power valve. It smoothens out that power band throughout which they say is a plus.
Does the 300 have oil injection like the TPI bikes, or is it pre-mix?
Premix
Mixing gas and hauling ass👍
premix
Premix 60:1 as they suggested in all altitudes
How come they don't let the 300s race with the 450s?
Cuz the 450 riders be scared 😉
I have a 350sxf so I’m stoked on your opinion! I might have to trade in for this or if I can budget both I’ll do it! Ultimate combo
300 vs. 450 is still not a fair fight. Did the FI make the bike faster than a carb? It looked good, but that track was flat, and that bike was a one off wonder. Let's see the production bikes in October. Fun bike with great crossover off road capabilities, as a straiqht MX bike it's a novelty.
Definitely getting one.
I'm thinking the 300 SX will be my next bike.
You are not alone 😎 I got a 2022 EXC 150TPI this spring, and this bike is already impressing, but lacking of course the ooomph of my YZ250. The 300SX would be perfect
Awesome! Can’t wait to see the full review… definitely want to buy one now… 😄🙏
A 250 on some serious serious steroids with upgrades in suspension. Can't wait to get one for my endurance enduro racing
The bog he was talking about on the Old 250 two strokes is that gone on the 250 now when it is EFI?
Was hoping it had comparable power to the 450, this guy is saying it feels less than a 350F, which has me questioning if I would want it. I wish they showed us HP comparison between the line up. After selling my brand new 250 4stroke to get a 450 for more power, I wouldn’t want to go back to less power. I don’t race, I just like having the 450s power when riding at the mx-track. They new 450s are still heavy(high inirtia), but they are tamed beast with all the tune-ability from stock and can turn now. I use to get arm pump bad and have to pull off on my old carbureted 450F. With my new 450F, with roll on power, I no longer get it. Also, 4 stroke engine decel to me is a good thing, less braking required. If you don’t want it to decel, keep the power on longer as needed.
I thought that was odd too, the 300 has 7 more hp than the 350 on paper and should feel quicker
I'm not sure if I want the 300sx or 350sxf. I think the 2 stroke is maintenance more often but I think the four strokes are engine out just to do the top end. I also ride a lot of amateur kicker arenacross. I think the 350sxf would be a better choice for that.
2 stroke is less maintenance!!! (: its literally a chainsaw with a wheel. costs about 200 bucks to rebuild a top-end aka cheap (:
@@samuel123478 I was laughing at that. I was using my 1990 Homelite SXL 80cc chainsaw yesterday and was cracking up at how much of a monster that thing is and how loud it is, and how similar it is to a dirt bike.
Already ordered mine!
If a 300 two stoke is better than a 250 two stroke…… then wouldn’t a 350 two stroke be better than a 300 two stroke?
You see where I am going with this. Cmon KTM, please build a batch of modern 500 two strokes!!!!
Probably a kit will be made for 350. They had 300s but never sx models until now
Naw naw naw. EFI 350 twin two stroke. Revive the shee babyyy
I’d love to see a 300 kit for the 250 four stroke for us light-weight vet racers. Especially in the off-road segment. Red Moto makes a great kit partnered with Athena for the 22’ CRF250R and it’s really successful in the Euro GP.
I’ve said this before rather than all 3 versions of the Ktm making a 350 let one make a 300, one a 350 (probably Ktm) and one make a 400!
@@paulmarshall8774 a tooling nightmare and that's an expensive way to produce. Another reason KTM killed of the Burg 70 degree motor.
Managed to secure a down payment on the one of 2 that my dealership is getting lol I'm so pumped
Of course the 2stroke hater will criticize it before they ride and say it junk
Next top BRC500 kit!
I have heard nothing but amazing things about the 300sx, With everything going on I doubt I will be able to find one anywhere. Shortages everywhere
Wonder if we'll start seeing AMA Pro's start showing up on the new KTM 300SX?
they cant with the current rules, highest cc they can run is a 250 for the two strokes
Makes me wanna buy one
Wondering when we we see in Australia?
They recon November in New zealand
Does the 300 two smoke have the upshift quick shifter like the factory 4fif four striker?
No.
I'm sold. Trading in my KX450 for the 24' KTM SX300.
love your work!
Sounds like a serious Vet Weekend Warrior Weapon... VWWW (tm) 😃
Tons of people want 250 2t to run in the 250 4 stroke class, as do I. I love 2strokes but no way is a 300 competitive against a 450 comparing just the bikes. 400-450 2t would probably be more equal. Anyone who shoots off random dyno numbers is a fool. You can make them say what ever you want. Test the same bikes on the same dyno on the same day to get useable data.
Imagine doing full work on the 300 engine and it would have been a match for the 450, just look at redbull straight rythm, twisted developments 325, i mean you could make it even faster, and its lighter. AMA reconsider 300 to be allowed in the 450 class.
The two strokes just won't be as consistent with putting the power to the ground as efficiently as the 4 strokes over the period of an entire race. Yes this one is easier to ride than in the past but for professional racing the 450 will still have the advantage. Now on a local level it could be a different story.
Good info guys
Not sold on the TBI, low end throttle response is worse than carbureted and overrev still sounds weak like TPI was.
Nothing better than a 2 stroke for fun. I predict the 300mx will be tough to get and pretty $$$
Msrp $9,099. I already have the first one arriving to Ohio secured. Traded in my 18 crf450 with 40 hours on it and $1200 down. I’ll still owe $2,899 on it when i pick it up in august/September
@@YZFMX256 not that bad, i would have to put a hefty down payment on it. But would be so worth it never. thought i would into KTMs Until now as i wanted to get a YZ250 2 stroke
God bless KTM
You also can't ride a 2 stroke if it's lagging. TF don't let off the gas
“We love it but they’re so dam expensive.” These bikes are getting out of reach.
Yeah my 300 2 stroke with tax and basic protection parts was $11.5k to get into the woods. They're getting way up there.
In Australia it works out worse. I can’t afford an off road dedicated bike but the gas gas 300ec or ktm (road legal here). Maybe I’ll get lucky and get 2 bikes (same likelihood of me winning Tattslotto than having 2 late model 300’s) I’m happy with an erzberg 300 for my ultimate bike
Move to new Zealand all new bikes ate $18,000 plus
Game changer?
It's weird to hear "Rev Limiter" when talking about a 2 stroke
I like it sounds so badass. It's a new era TPI Two Strokes, modern 4 stroke tech on 2 stroke. Not having to mess with rhe carb and jett is so sick and vibration is few.
they've literally always had one 😂
@@EnduroUK. No they have not. Only the TPI and TDI bikes.
If I send a email to KTM they will give me one?
All the 2023's probably have a deposit on them already. Everyone watching that are trying to decide they want one will most likely get one in 2024.
Lets just hope that they haven’t made a huge mistake by getting them made in China! Im guessing this will bring reliability issues on big time!
I don't understand how the 300 2 stroke is "a little less" power-wise than the 350, as there is now only 50cc difference. Also, the specs call out the new 300sx having 57 crank hp. With the 450 making 61-something hp, how dang much hp does that 350 4 stroke make? sheez. I almost wish KTM would've made the 300 2 stroke with a lightswitch powerband instead of with "smooth roll-on" power as this racer described it in the interview, in order to just finally get a 2 stroke that is competitive with the big-bore 4 strokes.
revs my friend. the 350sxf revs to 13000rpm whereas the 300 goes completely flat at 8000rpm
The smoother the power delivery the faster a rider can be. I know I’m faster on my 2008 500af vs my 2018 crf450, bc the 500 has a smoother powerband.
I believe the stock 350sx made just over 50hp at the rear wheel on the dirt rider Dyno, the video is on RUclips.
@@YZFMX256 must be a Socal boy talking like that. Smooth power is faster on hardpack but gets you no-where in sand or east coast loam
@@tcmx712 I’m from Ohio… ride high point, redbud, Baja, briarcliff, buddscreek, tomahawk…
People buy a 2 stroke to have character!??! Think it’s more than that 😂
its amazing how all these people want a 2 stroke to behave like a 4 bomb...
Not all that's for sure.
@@daffyduck9901 I'm saying it more in the context of the people that never really 2 strokes are the ones who want they're new to them 2 strokes to be like a 4 stroke.
I don't like the way it sounds, older 2 strokes sound better. If this has the same HP as an 89 rm250 then that's sad
I cant believe the 300 2 stroke is only almost as good a 350 4 stroke.
I thought it would be right up there barking at the 450
Cause the pros just tell it how it is. You dont get fanboy opinions. Especially from the 2 stroke riders. They still believe the 250 2 strokes match todays 450s 🤦♂️
KTM has had the 300xc for years and now that KTM puts SX in the name people are all crazy over it.
Also, If these same people wouldn't have degraded the 2 stroke Honda and others would still be making them.
2 stroke lovers are so lucky KTM and Yamaha didn't give up on the 2 stroke.
The races are so screwed up concerning 2 strokes , you won't be able to race the KTM 300SX because of the rules.
If KTM makes a 400cc 2 stroke bye bye 450s!!!!!!
250s are my least favorite as well. They either bog or rip your arms off. No in-between. This 300 looks awesome!
Less power than a 350 wtf then that would be life the same power as the sx250 just with more tourqe that cind of disappointing
It’s interesting, there have been other testers who said the 300 has felt faster than the 450. The 300 makes more peak torque than the 350 and about the same horsepower.
Doesnt KTM say 57 bhp, because that is more than what the 350 makes...
@@verttisyrjala2897 Yes and even if that’s crank HP, it should make as much as the 350 at the bare minimum. Plus the 300 makes much more torque.
I WAS going to buy one of these. Not now. Not when there is no kick starter or anyway to add one. That's retarted. And it makes every one completely vulnerable. If it's around a circle track like motocross maybe. But out in the woods? No way. They lost a sale on me. In fact I'm about to sell all my KTM's and buy brands that offer kickstarters.
You can still push start if starter failed.
300 2t?? Shut up and take my crippling debt!
All you 2-smoker BS talkers better step up & buy these new bikes.. or gone forever.
Remove the words “KTM 300” (and gears) from this convo and you have the incoming Varg videos.