Weird Weapons: Giant Rondel!
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
- When I find a weird weapon from history I like to find out about and there is no better way than for me to make it and Matt Easton to test it.
Someone sent me a picture of a crazy big 15thC rondel dagger housed at the Cambridge Museum of Anthropology and Archeology, but it was so big I wondered what the point of it was. Between Matt and I and some helpful fighters we now have a much better insight into how it could be used.
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Maybe try swinging up instead of down.
A very good point that I certainly missed and combined with another in the comments. I made this as a standard rondel format, so where I didn't have enough information is fell back on 'standard rondel construction, so basically a thick blade and a cylindrical grip. These were both assumptions based on 'normal' roundels. The guys used the rondel in the standard medieval way of an ice pick grip. But course the scale is not normal so perhaps other aspects are not either. Basically what I am saying is that the grip could have been oval, though I doubt that, but it could have been made to be used tip up and it was an oversight to have not tested that - sorry. I write this without consulting with Matt so he well say 'tosh' or something similar. Thoughts people?
@@tods_workshop As I wrote above, such a grip seems not very practical for sophisticated fencing, but it may make sense if you want to have a strong and stiff grip and protect yourself with this rod against the impact of some heavy weapon, sword, halberd... Maybe? These are just my intuitions and assumptions.
@@tods_workshop
To me it seems strange if this was not made with some sort of oval grip.
Or at least that is how I would have made it if I wanted that weapon and lived at that time.
It makes zero sense that it would be used with an ice pick grip because of the length of it.
It must have been used tip up in my opinion.
The way they were "carrying" the long mock dagger when testing it out and to draw it with a ice pick grip was just plain stupid.
And I must say I am shocked that this was not obvious to any of you while doing the testing.
This was clearly worn on the other side for a cross draw as it would be suicide not to do that.
I think you all made the totally wrong assumption that it had to be used the same way as a normal length rondel dagger was used and not able to think outside the box you had made for yourself.
And I think Matt's thinking was totally wrong as well when he clearly thought that in most cases this was not useful as he seems to think that most situations would be at very close distance and I totally disagree with him there.
When we look at the history for hundreds of years, most self defence weapons chosen to be carried were much longer than these rondel daggers and more similar lengths to this long "rondel dagger" you made.
This was without a doubt not a battlefield weapon, but rather a daily life weapon for self protection.
If someone suddenly decides to use a dagger on you when being very close to you, it does not matter if you have a short or a long dagger/sword as you will in any case be dead before you get time to react and draw your weapon if he knows what he is doing, so Matt's assumption is flawed in my opinion.
@@The_Judge300 Yes, I recently saw a video showing how quickly a rapier can be drawn into combat - if it is worn correctly and the user has training. No one here had any experience with this particular weapon - and what they really should have done was take these wooden replicas and spend a few days trying out different ways of carrying them and different ways of quick draw and defensive maneuvers. I'd also like to see it paired with a buckler, because I think it could be quite a scary combination: a small shield masking movements and a spike suddenly popping out from behind the shield in a random place.
@@tods_workshop What can you say from a maker's point of view compared to a sword of this size? Is it easier to make such a big spike, or more difficult?
"They both got stabbed." A feature of many knife fights.
And rapier duels
I would go as far as to say, virtually all knife fights that are even vaguely evenly matched.
“The loser of a knife fight often dies at the scene. The winner often dies later in a hospital.”
Arya Stark and her big Rondel can attest.
Everyone who saw her coming stabbed her. Luckily it doesn't happen very often.
Okay it's not a rondel, it has edges but it was clearly always a stabber in the rondel's line of thinking.
"Nobody wins a knife fight. Sometimes someone survives."
This blade exists because someone in the 1500s wanted to say "That doth not be a dagger, my friend. This doth be a dagger!"
Oh man, that dagger is so ridiculous. But I still want it and I can't explain why. Always fun to do these videos!
The fact that we are so enamored of things sharp and dangerous has never been explained. For the inexplicable I just sit back and enjoy.
It's ridiculous. That's why you want it. There is no better reason. :)
Thanks Matt, great fun and thanks for taking part and your insights
think you should have brought up the half-swording point more. at the battlefield it's like a tiny backupsword at this point. and perhaps brought up armour use.
I would imagine that this giant rondel would be paired with a smaller dagger to cover extreme short ranges, just as daggers were used to cover grappling ranges for sword-users.
It would also work well with a buckler, or both a buckler or small dagger.
This is the best series on the medieval history side of youtube.
Thank you
It reminds me of the kind of rule bending we see in modern sports, almost as if someone (hypothetically) had to fight with a rondel... but wasn't given a length restriction.
"We said no swords, sir."
"I know... and this is a rondel."
"But..."
"Straight blade, single edge, rounded handle, two discs. Rondel."
Reminds me of HEMA fights I used to see decades ago. People doing all kinds of silly things to score points. One point per hit with daggers and such.. Okay - both participants close eyes or turn away their faces and start hitting each other as quickly and as many times as possible.
@@ttaibe Silly, but still... most overt knife fights look exactly like that.
The 'greatest' Japanese Samurai duelist was known for fighting tons of duels with wooden swords, at least once carved out of a wooden oar. I like to think he actually made the length of his weapon several inches longer then his opponents and had enough training/skill that if he hit you the lack of an edge didn't matter. He just found an exploit and became legend.
Frivolous laws are the mother of invention. See: "Pistol Braces" for firearms. "Forced Reset Triggers", "Oil filters", etc.
@@squarewheels2491You should mention his name, Miyamoto Musashi
Jordan and Ben's sparring was very educational. They really brought the long rondel to life.
Very kind of you! 😁
Agreed - we needed to stop watching two guys talk guff and start watching it being used and they used them to great effect - thanks guys
"and Bilbo took a knife in a leather sheath. It would have made only a tiny pocket knife for a troll, but it was as good as a short sword for the hobbit."
I would love it if Tod made scaled up versions of various styles of early medieval and pre-medieval dagger just to explore which ones would make the most effective shortswords for a hobbit. My headcannon is that the Barrow-daggers were re-hilted in Rivendell before the company set out south, no thoughts on Sting though.
"For each of the hobbits he chose a dagger, long, leaf-shaped, and keen, of marvelous workmanship, damasked with serpent-forms in red and gold. They gleamed as he drew them from their black sheaths, wrought of some strange metal, light and strong, and set with many fiery stones [...] 'Old knives are long enough as swords for hobbit-people,' he said..."
@@mostlychimp5715 I 100% agree! I've spent more time than is probably productive trying to figure exactly that out.
This very much sounds like a job for Petr Florinek/Owen Bush - check out their collaborations
Particularly coming out of that barrow and described as leaf-shaped, I've long pictured them as having the shape of bronze age leaf-shaped blades. That line of "damasked with serpent-forms in red and gold" gives me a mental picture of "flame-top" bookmatched timber finishes on pretty guitars.
As for re-hilting and re-working... I'd be surprised if Rivendell would muck about with that, those blades were powerful because they came from allies of Angmar the Wich-King.
@@johnladuke6475 I agree that they probably didn't need to re-hilt the daggers, but the shards of Narsil, the sword of Elendil, were reforged for Aragorn into Anduil, flame of the west, in Rivendell by elvish smiths. I'd say that it would possibly be the _best_ place to have such weapons altered or remade.
I'd also expect any practical weaponsmith to make allowances for repair, and have the spellwork mainly in the blade, if at all possible, so it could be re-hilted and keep at least most, if not all of its power.
And minor nitpick, those blades came from the _foes_ of Angmar, not the allies!
10:40 is my favorite part. Matt says Stop and they just freeze-frame to show what's going on, good job on them! Using the weapon like a bar to sweep, block, or parry is also something I've never seen, that was really cool and maybe something that deserves it's own video by Matt. Jordan and Ben were great!
Yeah; I loved that too and totally unrehearsed
That is a beautiful blade
indeed.
Yeah, it really is
Thanks very much and I have always loved making rondel and this was no exception
Thanks Jordan & Ben that was amazing! 👍
It was a lot of fun and really changed things up a lot!
Yes it was - thanks so much guys taking part and it rather rudely seemed that we deliberately didn't show your faces, but in fact we ddi not have any decent footage of you guys without masks - sorry
@@tods_workshop that's alright. I would cover up Ben's face as well given the choice.
@@academyofsteel9050 wow! Rematch at Fight Camp! :D
"Haha that's not a knife... That's a knife!"
crocodile Dundee reference, nice
Are you referencing the true tale based on true events filmed on front of live studio audiences Australian? Ughh. So miserable annoying. Sometimes I think Dundee hasn’t any crocs at all. Why would you were that footwear on a North Sea island
It had to come
That's not a dagger .... That's a dagger!
.....
Bollocks!
That's not a Knife, that's a spoon.
It's funny, I was watching Academy of Historical Fencing's (the guys behind you in this video lol) last video, and saw you and Matt talking away in front of your cameras in the background and wondered what videos you had in the pipeline lol. It looked like you were playing around with one of those square buckers, though it was hard to see 🤔
Ah! - Rats the secret is out.....coming
It turns out they were made for medieval fairs - you had to stab the painted face with a massive rondel dagger! 3 tried for a penny! 1 face gets you a rat on a stick; 3 faces wins you a bollock dagger!
Love it!
Rat-onna-stick supplied by Gimlets, the depth of dwarf cuisine. 2 faces gets you a sausage inna bun as purveyed by Mr C.M.O.T Dibbler who swears they are worth twice as much or he'll cut his own throat!
@@ianchristian7949 Love the reference. LMAO
@@ianchristian7949 It turns a profit because you still have to pay for your own ketchup
With all due respect to men who have experience in sparring, but not necessarily with this particular weapon... The effect after a month of training may be completely different. Look at the musical instruments. Try playing something without practicing.
Frustrated it’s taken till this video for me to realise “people who made treatises could have had people spar and freeze in pose to use as study for drawing” haha.
I say frustrated lightly, I’m glad to have realised it.
Learning is great!
especially since the treatises (compared to say paintings) would have been made for the purpose of teaching, so you want them to be accurate
When I was a martial arts instructor, I did this with students all the time. Sparring gives you (semi) realistic fights, but it's too fast for new students to notice any detail. Having them freeze is one of the best teaching methods.
Credit to Jordan and Ben, they made for great demonstrators!
The long rondel is working well because the sparring is essentially unarmored. They don't have to aim for slits or gaps so the long thrusts the longer rondel can deliver are working and it has a range advantage.
Yes, absolutely. I was thinking that they could part way simulate armoured fighting by only scoring if you are able to stub in a few specific places - like in the armpit.
Though to be fair if the wearer was attacked in a civilian setting then armor would not be an issue.
@@adambielen8996 but their discussion at the start assumes armoured combat, while the sparring simulates unarmoured combat.
@@maninaliftThey did mention that this dagger is a rarity, a weird weapon. Theoretically it might have been a show piece to carry around in a civilian context rather than one you'd actually carry in armoured fighting.
@@maninalift Yes, but their assumption was also that this big Rondel was made for carrying in a city. Where people are not going to be jumping you in plate.
Id say that's the long and the long of it
Nice!
Your skirmishers are quite skilled.
They were - and thanks to them
"You are under arrest. It is illegal to carry a polearm in the city"
"This is not a pole arm. It is a ten foot, two-handed rondel dagger. See, it has a disc on the end of the handle."
I'd say it was the result of someone getting a custom-made weapon for their particular technique. Looks like he meant it to fit the category of "rondel" but to have a sneaky advantage.
We need to remember that in a real fight, the opponent would never get the chance to learn about the extra reach. They'd try to block, be stabbed, and that would be the end of it.
This is a "surprise, you're dead!" weapon. It doesn't need to have a broad range of utility because it's designed to end a knife-fight abruptly, not be used in a long clash, most likely.
"We need to remember that in a real fight, the opponent would never get the chance to learn about the extra reach." - Your theory is interesting. However, the opponent could see the length of the weapon's scabbard. Unless everything is hidden under clothes and only the handle is visible.
I can't remember where I read or had seen it but I do remember longbowmen, crossbowmen, and arquebusier carrying sidearms. Some of those sidearms were described as short swords made to thrust and stab to be used a coup de gras or last ditch self defense. That oversized Rondel looks like it would fit that description and role perfectly.
If this "dagger" was intended to be used in war, I'm beginning to wonder whether it was against humans or horses. XD
If you put a smallsword hilt on that huge rondel dagger, its not too far from a smallsword. I wonder if the origin of rapiers and smallswords have something to do with people finding the rondle hilt on longer weapons just a hindrance.
Also, one of the only youtubers where I actually scroll up to view the ad while writing this. :)
Thank you! I really appreciate that. Yes the hilt shape and size is not very flexible for sword type use
There's always two ways to think about weird weapons. They're either a show off piece or an experiment to solve a problem. This feels like a dagger made into a thrusting sword. It's almost like an arming sword or small sword, but less evolved.
An edit. Basically, it feels like a civilian weapon, to be held in forward grip and using thrusts. Halfsword techniques applied well based on sparring. It could be a work around for city sword laws, a defensive weapon, a dueling weapon, all three, or none of these
Great fighters on this one. They seemed happy to experiment with some odd tactics.
If used with the half swording technique, the long rondel dagger could be devastating
0:42 OOOOOOOHHFFrr that's got to hurt x'D
Not the jewelry!
From the other side... ruclips.net/video/gqbHdpSexf4/видео.htmlsi=Ka2kGFXuYbx063cl&t=289
I find it funny how of all the HEMA channels that I watch sparring footage of, AHF has the most groin shots caught on tape.
It's the half-swording a "dagger" that really does it for me
Once upon a time, an elephant was wandering through the forest when he heard a pitiful squeaking. Looking down, he saw that a mouse had fallen down a hole and was unable to get out. Reaching down with his trunk, he pulled the little fellow out, and they became fast friends.
Some time later, the mouse heard a sad trumpeting and bellowing. Heading towards the sound, he discovered that his friend had fallen into a pit dug by evil hunters. Wasting not a moment, he scampered home and got into his Ferrari, reversed it to the edge of the pit, tied a rope around the rear bumper, and hauled the elephant out.
Moral: if you've got a Ferrari, the size of your trunk is irrelevant.
An elephant is far beyond the towing capacity of a Ferrari.
@@danielmorris6584 Don't be ridiculous.
@@danielmorris6584 not the one they make for mice, it has a higher towing capacity.
... if you want to pick up elephants
@@williamchamberlain2263 Are you a man or a mouse?
Love the Weird Weapons series!
got another coming quite soon
I always figured oversized knives like that were display pieces, either a display for the knife maker, or a show-off piece for the buyer (comparisons to fancy cars is apt). I forgot that “legally not a sword” was also in play, especially with that half-sword guard technique.
a beautiful piece!
Thanks
Are we sure it's not a rondel shortsword?
Edit: I guess it would be more accurate to call it a rondel longdagger.
Well according to d&d, a short sword has a blade length of 15-24 inches so...rondel sword works for me.
Shivvy McDiskface
Honestly I wonder if the original might have served as a stabby short sword. It's hundreds of years early, but otherwise it's functionally a smallsword.
Isn't that a harry potter character?
Definitely pretty great, giving an example of some strengths and weaknesses, and then even getting a sparring demonstration. Definitely shows how each weapon has moments of when it is better and others where it is not so ideal. The best types of fighters are those who know their weapons, are able to capitalize its strengths and avoid their weaknesses. Feel like with the larger rondel it would be more ideal just to carry a second smaller dagger just for those fast up close cases. Never thought I'd see a dagger half-sworded though, would definitely help with the whole accuracy issue.
Fascinating! And a truly gorgeous weapon ❤️
The more I watch your channel the more I come to realize the brutality of war in ancient times up to even just as gunpowder was becoming available. The amount of endurance those wearing armor had to have to go even a few minutes in combat is incredible. The different weapon types and tactics to defeat specific armor types. We've really never changed that process. Armor improves, weapons improve to defeat said armor and round and round we go.
Matt, not that long ago you did a couple videos about the Dha/Krabi and others from parts of the world where many bladed weapons have round handles. You spoke eloquently about how they were effective swords. The people there used them effectively as weapons for a long time. If Burmese and Thais and Filipinos can figure out how to keep their edges aligned with a round handled tool certainly Europeans are smart enough to do the same thing.
It's a big difference between straight and curved blade though, as the curve helps edge alignment. Also a heavy hilt as on a rondel dagger changes the weight distribution and makes it even more difficult 😊
I just the final polish on a rondel dagger blade I made, inspired by your episode on the topic. I thought "I'll go over the top!" and made a 15" long monster made of twist damascus on the sides of a 1.4" chunk of W-2 tool steel. And then you come and casually out-do me.
Size does matter!!
So? - make another! Sounds lovely enough for the world to need two
What I always think, especially with this one, they could've carried both and so were equipped for both situations. Especially with cities forbidding swords this would have been extrem advantage.
Matt is right it's absolutely gorgeous Tod! well done sir. I kinda want one now. 😂
I love these so much, please keep them coming if at all possible! :)
Tod and Matt, such a lovely collaboration.
Great stuff. I absolutely love your weird weapons series. Looking forward to more!
Huge rondel looks surprisingly like a large scian / or an extremely large dirk with a replacement handle.
A thing to consider is if it was maybe intended to be used in the offhand with a shield? Some Dirks are particularly long so that their tip can stick out below the shield and be used in certain styles of targe fighting. Extra length there could be useful to stick out below a larger targe?
Interesting to see them used in halfsword!
Aren't dirks just a continuation of bollock daggers anyway? And the main difference between bollock and rondel daggers are in the handle, since both can have a variety of blade shapes.
"A thing to consider is if it was maybe intended to be used with a shield?"
Or with a dagger as offhand weapon? Or potentially with the long rondel as the offhand weapon/blocker?
@@DIREWOLFx75 ah sorry if it was unclear. The Dirk is used in the offhand with a shield. The targe is strapped to the arm and the hand holds the dagger and handle. Dirk then pokes out from the rim of the targe. I've edited my initial comment for clarity.
Great to see the demonstration with the fellas!
I love this series of finding and creating unusual weapons, and then trying them out in practise
I think it may be worth considering if that dagger was meant to be used with a half-sword grip at least some of the time. It would be more effective at blocking other weapons, would have utility to assist more with joint-locks in grappling, and a half-sword grip would also nullify the disadvantage with preciscison.
Totally agree especially using fiore almost all guards are with two hands
Very nice video! Over the decades I've seen a few historic examples of really long rondels, though never one with disks quite that large. A decade or so back we experimented with some very long dagger wasters (not quite this long!) and quickly reached the conclusion that using it for 'batoning' (halfsword/defensive use) was the only thing that really made much sense. In the right circumstances we found it quite lethally effective and much better than a normally-sized dagger when facing a sword.
0:09 2 guys fighting in the backround 😂
That's Nick. You can see Matt and Tod filming this in the background of his video on short poleaxes from the other day.
what about it?
2 videos in one
this is exactly what I was hoping to see! more on the series of sword-sized daggers!
What I would conclude about this is that the size of a rondel tells you a lot about how the owner intends to use it. The larger rondel had certain advantages and disadvantages, and so did the smaller one. I loved watching how the fighters intuitively began using the larger rondel to outreach their opponents, and also intuitively gripped the blade: Good fighters will always gravitate toward the weapon's advantage. Notice these methods of use would tend to be more useful when fighting in armor, or fighting an armored opponent: I tend to believe that the bigger rondels were primarily designed for armored fighting, while the smaller ones were useful both on and off the field - it's all about what you want to use it for.
I would imagine you could use the longer rondel & still keep a small one on your person, to be used in a close grapple, for instance.
I think you are right at the end of the day. To start with I pretty much dismissed it, but the end conclusion by Matt was that it had plus and minus sides
Or perhaps in unarmoured combat if you're expecting axe or cudgel wielding thugs?
Interesting because I came to the opposite conclusion. I see the long dagger as more useful in a civilian context where you can't carry a real sword. Being precise with the point is less valuable than extra reach because you aren't worried about targeting small gaps in armor. The longer blade being easier to block/grab is less of a concern without gauntlets or armor. Of course the appearance has value as a deterrent. And the extra size isn't as much of an issue because you aren't also carrying a polearm and sword.
@@babyhuey6342 "where you can't carry a real sword." - Assuming that for medieval city authorities this monster, almost the size of an 18th century gentleman's sword, is not a "real sword".
Agreed, that is a beautiful Rondel.
“excited rogue noises”
Rondel 'dagger' verging on Ahlspiess! 😉
I love the geometry going on there, its fantastic work
Yes! The best series continues!
Tod, for your next weird weapon: make a long Rondel that affixes easily as a spear point for a "sword spear". Pack your "go bag" with the tip and then make the spear shaft in the field with bushcraft techniques. I've seen a few "tactical spear"/daggers like this but they have a socket like a shovel/hoe for attachment, which would seem problematic. Your historical context may suggest much improved methods and could be a weird weapon show candidate. A compact Bowie knife/Rondel dagger until you need a tactical spear/bayonet.
The guys did some really nice sparring! Thank you
Some ideas about possible uses of that weapon:
1. Maybe it was used as a sidearm for a person with a pretty big longsword, that is unwieldy to carry around and use in close combat? Carrying two swords might be weird or inconvenient, while having a big sword and a big dagger might look reasonable. So it essentially was used in the same role as the katzbalger.
2. Maybe it was used as an off-hand parrying dagger? I've seen some mentions and depictions of dual-wielding swords and rondel daggers (not sure how common it was historically), and later parrying daggers can be pretty long.
3. Maybe it was used as a shortsword with a shield or buckler in the off-hand? You can parry and stab with it, and lack of cutting may be compensated by better armor penetration. Another option is to use it with a shorter dagger in your off-hand.
4. Maybe it was used against enemies in mail or cloth armor? While it probably can't penetrate thriugh plate, it may be able to penetrate cloth armor and mail easily enough, so you do not have to strike in the gaps. Using it while hunting to kill wounded beasts with thick hide (boars and such) may also be reasonable.
5. Maybe it is better than short rondel dagger for self-defense against longer and heavier weapons, such as swords and maces?, And the goal was not to kill the opponent with it, but to defend yourself long enough to get help from your allies/retainers?
Of course, several of this ideas may be true at the same time (or maybe all are wrong).
Also, except the guard and the handle, what's the difference between that long rondel dagger and a short estoc/tuck sword? It seems that some estocs may be shorter than 3', so only several inches longer.
All your points are interesting, and this is the first one I have a historical analogy to. Well, when the Roman army started using longer swords as standard, their daggers also grew... actually to the size of the old gladius. They called it: "semispatha". So maybe, if in the Middle Ages it was standard to carry a sword and a dagger, then as the sword became longer... the dagger also had to be longer to act somewhat as a shorter sword, if necessary.
I had always thought that a dagger that size was just a sword that had broken at some point and had been ground down and repurposed into a long dagger. What are your thoughts? Love your channel!
Definitely started life as a dagger
@@tods_workshopWell then its truly a Weird Weapon. Thanks!
So have one long dagger and one short dagger and you win!!!
What I'd love to know, and I hope I didn't miss you explaining is...WHO carried this dagger, and why...?
Good side arm for an archer?
"Hey I just made some interesting piece to test out I found interesting."
*Proceeds to make a beautifully crafted piece of weaponry.*
So, this is pretty exactly the point where you can ask "is this a dagger, or is this a short sword", and the correct answer will be "yes".
Also, it's really pretty!
Would have loved to see some attempts at half swording with the long one on those orange faced targets - should help the accuracy some, and allow more speed and power in the strike so it will get through the target easier. I suspect that 'dagger' makes a great deal of sense once you treat it as a short sword or rapier than treating it like the dagger it is built to resemble, and may even be better than a traditional sword on some targets and in some fights... Though the hilt being those two disk seems like it might be a bit limiting in use really limiting your grip options, but at the same time really solid grip that lets you put lots of force into the weapon without fear.
To me seem very much like the get around legal restrictions weapons and tools of today - as functional and practical as it can be without falling foul of the rules, leading to some compromises they probably would rather have avoided.
I think the big stick is meant for attacking someone, rather than as a defensive weapon in case you're attacked. More of a 'stay away because you can't block my big dagger'.
And that you'd carry a small one as well, for drawing rapidly if you're being attacked.
But, of course. what if big rondel combined with bollock dagger?
I love the PvP action going on in the background.
Maybe in a town where all people are carrying standard sized rondel daggers, this blade might have been designed to fight against other rondels, unarmoured in the streets, but still look the part 🤔
Food for thought: the point (as it were) of a rondel dagger is having that flat pommel, to get one's body weight behind penetration. This brings to mind a potential use that you might not have considered: slaughter.
I have no idea how people of this era slaughtered large animals, but the usual go-to nowadays is to strike the skull with blunt force (bolt gun, hammer, etc.). This is fairly easy when the animal is standing, but it becomes awkward when an animal is lying down - as it would be when badly ill, poorly struck in a hunt, leg-broke, etc. In such cases, the next resort is usually to open the throat, but this can take a while, and leads to regrettable suffering on the part of the animal.
As most hunters know, it's rather faster to dispatch an animal by piercing the side, and striking the heart and/or lung. However, a typical dagger may not reliably reach these organs.
I wonder if this dagger belonged to a farmer or hostler or something - who, wanting to minimize the suffering of ill and injured animals, sought a tool that offered broad, deep and reliable penetration to the body cavity. I need hardly tell Tod that even untreated leather (a cow's skin) is pretty tough. This thing is, as you say, pretty feckless as a weapon, but might be just the ticket for someone wanting to dispatch a large creature, with a few seconds to set up their stroke. One could get above the (horizontal) body, line up the blade, get one's weight above it, and neatly pierce the body cavity with a single down-stroke. Again, it's not as tidy as a brain-strike - but, if one is in a line of business with a lot of ill or injured animals, it might be a desirable tool to deliver the "mercy stroke."
Excellent as always
I'm not going to defend the long rondel.
But it would be interesting to see it duel wielded with a regular dagger.
Using the long rondel as a kind of parrying short sword.
Even though it would likely be trash for that as well.
( Edit)
After finnishing the video im even more curious.
If this was specifically to skirt laws on dagger length.
Then combining its use with a smaller knife would be interesting.
Though.
Others weapons are simply better suited to the task.
Great video, thanks Tod!
Excellent video!!!
Ah yes, for when you must assassinate a horse.
That dagger is longer than my monitor's diagonal.
It seems to me that the giant rondel could be used sort of like a "crow bar with a point" - so less about the fine tip work, and more of a utility tool to pry armor and get it in (perhaps two handed, again like a crowbar)?
Hey Tod, been a fan of the channel for a while. Especially of your various tests you have done. I have been especially curious recently of your leather series. Namely, I am curious about what an actual suit of leather armor would look like. As well as differen't types of leather that could be tested, harvested from different animals.
fantastic content as always tod
I get the sense that the guy really wanted a sword and intended to cary and use it like one, but went with a rondel style to be like "no no, see you can't get much more dagger than this, its clearly not a sword."
In the end you forgot that the secondary weapon is usually a sword. So if the fight starts in open, then the other person most likely has sword against long rondel. Or the user of long rondel still has his own sword. This makes long rondel nearly useless.
Glad to see you're well Tod! Been a while.
I love you and matt so much.
Its like a game of Zelda for matt where the theres no restriction on what weapon he might possess
so one day its like a 12 foot halberd that spits greek fire
the next is a kopesh with a slightly more curver which gives +5 to alacrity lol
like i just love were in a position we can just explore and have our childs fantasies unleashed
what a magnificent blade
Soooo beautiful!!!
Thanks - appreciated
Definitely for an unarmoured lord to wear around town. Looks very impressive and being a good weapon, both defensive and offensive, giving good reach to stab unarmoured vagabonds, when your sword is back at the Inn...
If you are wearing this in a town where you can't wear a sword, this makes a lot of sense because it gives you a lot of advantages against people with smaller blades. You have more reach than your opponents, and you can block them (in that context, it works great). It all depends on you having enough time to get it out of the scabbard, which would be the same limitation as a regular sword.
It was just briefly mentioned in the video that many rondel daggers can't cut very well due to edge geometry. I think both Matt and Tod have shown examples of ones that had no cutting capacity whatsoever. I wonder if there's a chance that the original might have been used as a short stabby-sword, a sort of smallsword happening hundreds of years early. Seeing its utility at stabbing past blocks and as a parrying stick was quite surprising as well.
Idea for your eating knife or effigy rondel dagger assortment! I'm too ill to make it I'm afraid, but you might like to use it;
A meatknife with a peppergrinder in the hilt, exciting the pommel!
Never seen before as far as I know, might be very popular as any need-to-carry-knife
Ohhhh.. I didn't even realize this was a weird weapon series vid
I would bet that the person carrying that long rondel had a shorter edged weapon as well. Covering all the bases one can, dancing within the lines of the law.
It's a good reminder that being quick on the draw absolutely wasn't something that came in with pistols but was already half the game just with edged side-arms.
Really enjoyed this, thank you!
Very interesting, the sparring really illustrated the tradeoffs
Absolutely - every design is always a series of trade offs and we can speculate all we want, but seeing is believing or at least knowing.
Matt is turning into a Goblin more and more.
Google "Nosferatu 1922" . Thank me later.
Entertaining video, guys!
Thank you, so much, for having the belligerent parties change weapons. That really highlighted how different people use different weapons. Brilliant!
As far as grabbing the opponents dagger goes, it’s not only more blade to grab, but also a lot more leverage to control your opponents blade
Medieval Crocodile Dundee: "This is not a rondel ... THIS is a rondel!"
Great idea to bring wood facsimiles of the unusually long dagger and a normal length dagger so trained fighters can test the theories in a realistic scenario.
I think of this often when cinquedia come up. I think there is a big benefit of these size weapons to defend with. Especially if you have opponents that bring larger weapons to bear. If I wrote a Rouge like character who regularly picked fights with town guards using polaxes, this is what I would give them.
I would have really liked to see them both tested against main battlefield weapons, i.e. longsword/poleweapons where shorter versions would be even more disadvantaged.