Weird weapons - FOLDING FLICK SPEAR?!
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- I found the amazing and weird weapon in a book and there is only one to discuss this with. Matt Easton of Schola Gladiatoria. It is a folding staff weapon from 1550 - yes it really folds up, but what the heck is the point?
So I made a reasonable reproduction, with some aspects missing (watch to find out) and took it along to chat it through with Matt and maybe, just maybe we came up with why someone thought it was a good idea.
For budget medieval replicas of fantastic accuracy and value todcutler.com
For commissions and custom work todsworkshop.com
For merch todsworkshop.c...
For those who enjoyed Arrows vs Armour todtodeschini.com
Matt Easton can be found here / @scholagladiatoria
It’s obviously a briefcase weapon for those occasions when a business meeting that goes wrong.
Perfect - love it
Now I really want to see that scene in a movie fight scene, but please one that is properly choreographed at least after the epic 'flick knife' spear moment.
I knew it
Or a wedding…
@@foldionepapyrus3441 that's not a flick knife.
Or more likely
"Oh hang on, urg, oops"
"This is a flick knife"
I love that Todd spends time researching and building a super elaborate weapon, and then is just like "The whole thing is UTTERLY POINTLESS".
Technically , as a spetum, it has three points. ;-)
Very good Jay@@JayJordan00
I don't know if it's pointless. A knight could easily store it behind the seats of his sports car. You just never know when you might need a pole weapon.
It's actually quite pointy
@@act.13.41 exactly, you may be ambushed by a windmill.
Tod unfolds the spear,
Matt:"Now it makes sense",
Tod:"No, it doesn't"
😜
But it is cool- which sort of summarises the entire 'survival, tactical and combat' cutlery scene in the modern era. No one's really likely ever going to use it as intended, but they like it and buy them anyway
It makes perfect sense.
Back in the 1500's the upper-class spearman would want a spear that fits in their carry-on luggage for a trans-oceanic flight.
@@MonkeyJedi99 or to receive it via ordering online on the Silk Road marketplace
It kind of reminds me of weapons in some movies where they push a button or shake it and the whole thing fully deploys. Far less functional though.
If I had to make a guess I would say that these might be used by some kind of royal guard traveling with an official. Imagine a carriage arriving at a palace, two guards jump out and deploy these to stand guard. Everyone around would know that the next person coming out will be someone very important.
Yeah, sure your "guess", or you took it word by word from this video:
ruclips.net/video/PjSRU11ByPQ/видео.html
Regarding his function there's an entry in the 1543 inventory of Francesco Gonzaga, Duke of Mantua for "un spedo da forbeso che se desnoda " (meaning literally a "scissors" spetum that can be dismounted) probably refers to this kind of weapon.
Another reference is an illustration in the "Inventario Illuminado 1544 " of the Emperor Charles V's armoury suggesting that it may have been used as weapon by an aristocratic bodyguard . The fact though that they are listed as a single item in both sources and not as multiple ones would also suggest as stated in the book "nine centuries of hunting weapons " by L. G. Boccia that they may be also high status hunting weapons.
That's awesome 🙏
So it is either something to impress your ol' boys club pals with during the annual boar hunt, or it's something a high class bodyguard is carrying around in a bagpack in case there is an ambush ahead and there's unexpected need for heavier weapons, then. Probably the former then, the tacticool poser weapon of the time.
I was thinking high status hunting weapon as well, maybe also something that would be easier packable on horseback to hunt as a guest in another land, etc. no historical basis for this, just my thoughts on practicality standpoint
Hunting weapon does make sense-as the topic of it fitting in a carriage came up, a wagon with a hunting party in it would have limited capacity. If you wanted to see pictures of what a hunting wagon of the period looked like, there's one in Schloß Morizburg in Dresden. Only a few pictures on the internet-but at least there's that few.
There was an ITALIAN FOLDING SPETUM at Christie in 1999 with "the upper-socket hinged at one side to the top of the main socket and locked to it in the extended position by a double spring-catch"
(edit) 1903 Theresianumgasse Inventory, p. 60, no. 124.
1934 Theresianumgasse Inventory, p. 73, no. 415.
B. Thomas, O. Gamber and H. Schedelmann, Arms and Armour, Masterpieces by European Craftsmen from the Thirteenth to the Nineteenth Century, London, 1964, no. 45.
L.G. Boccia and E.T. Coelho, Armi Bianche Italiane, Milan, 1975, p. 367, pl. 337.
L.G. Boccia et al., Armi e Armature Lombarde, Milan, 1980, p. 203, pl. 244.
O. Gamber and C. Beaufort, Kunsthistorisches Museum, Wien. Katalog der Leibrstkammer, II, Busto Arsizio, 1990, p. 186, pl. 122.
I find myself thinking of folding rifles, SMGs etc for paratroopers. Clearly they were preparing for Leonardo's proto helicopters to become effective.
I'd agree that it was most likely just a gadget that wasn't intended for practical use but in the late 1800's into the early 1900's a lot of American rifles, like the Winchester 92, came in a take down version. They were intended to used by people in the city (often quite well to do people like doctors and lawyers) who traveled by train out the countryside to hunt and wanted a gun they could pack into a regular suitcase so they wouldn't attract the attention that carrying a full sized gun case would. The spear, with it's wings, looks a bit a boar spear so maybe it was intended for a merchant or other professional who might not necessarily have his own carriage but could afford something fancy like this.
That does seem to make the most sense. Who doesn't like to show up at the hunting camp with the fanciest gadget they can afford. total status symbol.
The folding aspect of firearms is a really good point. There are plenty of - even modern day firearms with folding/removable socks - that serve little too no purpose in civilian use; but that look really tacticool, so people buy them. It's not unreasonable to think that the main purpose of this thing IS the fact that it looks cool.
@@zackdinesthe point of folding stocks, regardless of who uses them, is transportation and concealment, mainly transportation. Think paratroopers in WW2 and tank crews, which is why folding stocks came into favor originally. A big weapon takes up a lot of horizontal or vertical space folding just makes it more compact. That being said I do think this spear was mainly designed to be impressive.
Problem is the weapon shown in the picture, would cost more than the carriage.
Take down rifles are thing even today. Rifle can be handy that way in many situation for example airplane pilots survival gun for military or civilian pilots or just in general to make it fit in very small space
I mean, Matt makes an interesting argument with the carriage use. If we assume the original had spring locked latches so you can deploy it quickly I can imagine that a potential band of brigands trying to 'carjack' you carriage will probably shit themselves when your personal bodyguard suddenly deploys a polearm out of thin air. Now, I still think it was mostly a show-off piece but maybe it had some practical quality for the particular rich noble who ordered it
Somebody said on my FB page after that it was for body guards - don't know the origin though
I mean, when you're fending off brigands, the show-off nature of a polearm that deploys out of no-where does have practical benefits.
I struggle to think of any situation where it would be better than just strapping your polearm to the outside of the carriage.
You're going to need to get out of the carriage to deploy it anyway.
If we're talking about a 'suddenly your carriage is covered in bandits'-type situation, a polearm isn't really the weapon you want anyway, at least not until you've cleared some space.
If we're talking about hypothetical brigands who would attack you but would flee if you have polearm-equipped guards, surely it's better to have the polearms on display and not be attacked in the first place?
I don't know, if it is for bodyguard work it feels like a marketing gimmick. Your boss buys this for you because it will supposedly increase your productivity, he sells your old polearm that worked fine and you have to grin and say "gee, thanks" or get fired.
@@aurtosebaelheim5942 Don't underestimate the shock factor of somebody pulling a renaissance version of robocop pistol on you
@@aurtosebaelheim5942
Quite simply, someone else's carriage. When you're hiring a carriage, having your weapons outside when you're not 100% Sure about them is going to feel like a taxi cab driver telling you to put your carry piece in a roof basket before you get in.
i absolutely love the weird weapons, some of them are so out there that it shocks me they were real
Me too - such odd things you stumble across
@@tods_workshop i know, i remember when i first saw a mambele, and i initially thought that such unusual multi bladed throwing weapons were from dungeons and dragons, until i saw a few in a museum and realised they were real
❤
@@kevinmorrice I first saw those in Sir Richard F. Burton's The Book of the Sword and thought, "That's a Klingon weapon!"
@@nickaschenbecker9882 EXACTLY, thats how i felt, thought it was a bad joke, but turns out, its a very effective weapon
There's another one in Worcester Art Museum that has a much longer blade, half its full length, on a solid haft with no second hinge. It's also indeed spring-loaded, so the side blades swing automatically into place when the main blade locks open, which you can do by literally just flicking it like a humongous switchblade. The museum video showcasing it - ruclips.net/video/PjSRU11ByPQ/видео.html - speculates that it might have been for ease of transport in carriages and palanquins, a fancy self defense weapon cum fashion accessory for some tacticool nobleman or his bodyguards.
And the answer is.... very nice video find. Thanks.
This video should really be pinned at the top as it answers quite a lot of the questions here.
the locking mechanism looks pretty much identical to the pictures from the books shown in this video
That is a fantastic video, many many thanks and an extra kiitos for sharing it! Love that it has a proper latching mechanism with button release. :D
It's maybe one of the first examples of tacticool gear, not practical but looks cool and is flashy
Picatinny polearm. Get a laser pointer on that beauty!
See also the Assassin's crossbow.
an expensive tacticool toy.
Gucci.
If the originals did have an easy deployment mechanism as Tod suggests, then I think Matt's idea that it could have been meant to have with you inside a carriage in case of something like a highway robbery sounds convicing.
Yeah, and if they're aren't for like battlefield use then the weak points may be a thing they overlooked. No need to hold up to long time use if they're supposed to fight/scare of robbers.
My first thought was that it’s a travelling bodyguard weapon, purchased by whoever needs the bodyguard. meant to fold away for easy packing and set up when you get wherever you’re going, and look imposing while you are standing outside a palace somewhere that you’re not expecting to do a LOT of active fighting.
exactly, this is the polearm your body guards pull out when you, the rich merchant, pull up to your buddies mansion. they're not there to fight with, but having some guys uncross polearms when you come out of your carriage looks real cool and is the done thing. so you pay extra for super gilded show piece spears that your body guards can ride through the city with without getting their poleaxes caught in every other merchant stall's tent.
Yeah. Feels like the middle age equivalent of modern mercenaries paying tidy fortunes for break apart rifles and collapsible swords. It's not like most folks in that profession are putting kids through college or investing in real estate. Plus a folding spear just "sounds" rad. Which is the best kind of rad. Amiright?
Who even cares if it sucked to actually fight with?
Surely a foldable and portable spear makes sense in a context where most people carry daggers and/or swords as personal defense weapons. Think like a bodyguard who can reasonably be inconvenienced to the degree of carrying one of these around, but not to the degree of trying to navigate a regular spear or polearm through every narrow doorway, hallway, staircase and alley.
If you can’t draw it quickly, I have to disagree, I can’t imagine this being useful for any bodyguard anywhere; this thing has to be slowly unpinned, folded open and re-pinned in two places to even be usable. Note how long it takes Tod to make it wieldable, and imagine a fight suddenly breaking out or someone running up to the guy you’re protecting, and the bodyguard needing to run to another room for half a minute to get this thing folded and pinned open. Half the point of a bodyguard is openly displaying that if you mess with the rich guy, you mess with the man with a polearm who can kill you in one second, thus discouraging fights in the first place; displaying you have a weapon that needs to be folded open for 30 seconds before being usable is a really terrible idea, and if you have this thing concealed, somehow, it could still be defeated by a guy drawing a knife across the room and walking very slowly towards you before you’re done folding even half of the weapon open and pinning it in place, leaving a professional bodyguard with a floppy, unwieldy weapon with zero surprise benefit that costs far more to make and maintain, is technically usable but far heavier and less wieldy than a solid wooden pole with a simple head, less reliable against hard hits than an actual polearm due to the hinges, and takes half a minute to even prepare for use, making it worthless in a potential life or death scenario except as something to throw at the attacker while you draw your actual weapon.
@@fly1ngG0PHER This is just something Tod made, the real thing could have been much easier to deploy for all we know.
Besides, you don't need to wait until someone attacks to draw it. You can deploy it when you need someone to posture with a polearm and keep it folded when you just need to lug it around. If it's a regular polearm, that lugging around part is too inconvenient to have the polearm option available when you do have the need and the time to deploy it.
@@romaliop Yes, the one in the museum auto-locks with the wings auto-deploying making it possible to deploy with just a flick.
Interesting concept, is it collapsible ease of carrying. The one at Worcester Art Museum folds in half, one half being the handle and the other half being the blade and wings. That one has a spring actuator which locks the septum halves together virtually instantly. Some weapons from that era seem to be ridiculous until you stop and think about the whole way life was lived back then. Good post, appreciated 👍
I never knew they had one! I'm kind of ashamed of myself...
Ever use a switchblade knife and have it try and jump out of your hand when you open it? I wonder what the recoil of opening this felt like.
@@scholagladiatoriaI'm a mechanical engineer and find things like this fascinating.
This has all of the hallmarks of a noble's frustrated quartermaster. He didn't have to use polearms, but he definitely had to deal with the storage of them.
In my previous D&D campaign, my character was a polearm-wielding barbarian vigilante at night, but she was a cute, fashionable businesswoman during the day. So she had a folding naginata she could keep in her (very large) purse. And, now, it exists in real life. Tod, you magnificent bastard.
And historical!
Wait... Your character was based on Aggretsuko, wasn't she
I believe the Higgins spetum ended up going with most of the collection to the Worcester Art Museum. That one just has the blade fold down over the shaft and the wings fold in, rather than having the shaft fold as well, so it's interesting to see that there's an even weirder version of it out there.
I think you're right.
I live near Worcester, and lament the closing of the Higgins.
@@MonkeyJedi99same, I went when I was a kid but I would appreciate it so much more now
I think this weapon demonstrates that, even in early times, there were mall ninjas 🥷 😅😅
Love it!
Haah brilliant
That sounds absolutely right- but *rich* mall ninjas.,
These videos are great, you two make a great team. You can really tell that Matt knows weapons just the way he handled it right away.
Thanks 👊
Thanks and I love doing them. The concept started with "I can make them and you can use them". and it works well I think
I always enjoy them, too
If I recall correctly, the Medici also had some kind of "travel piano" that could be taken apart into two parts and folded into suitcases. So I wouldn't put it past them to make fancy folding polearms for their bodyguards when travelling around Europe.
A sparring version could be pretty useful for training spear fighting in HEMA. Much easier to transport.
Nodnodnod
I'm wondering if it could even be a legal thing. I can imagine it being used to bypass bans on "weapons longer than X inches" or some other such law when transporting it.
@@SanchoPancho979 Well, the machete brawls that has happend in England in recent years hasn't been particularly white events, so the cops aren't just being stupid about it.
I mean some HEMA rubber/plastic spears can be separated in two, then screwed back together. I got one!
@@physis6356 you see a lot of wuxia weapons that break down the same way.
Matt: "Now it makes sense."
Tod: "No it doesn't."
Me: literally LOL'd, startled the cat.
They made it folding so it could fit in the overhead bins when flying.
I'm pretty sure I couldn't get that past the security check 😢
I kind of loved this, and was also kind of terrified it was going to chop both my arms off if I made a wrong move.
It was certainly an odd one
I feel like this thing needs one of the staff pieces to be a single shot flintlock and have a secret stiletto hidden in it somewhere just to completely gimmick this silly thing up.
It's like asking, "Why carry a folding shovel?" It's A weapon that can be stowed in(or attached to) a saddle bag or other smallish carrier(backpack). It's a spear for those that cannot otherwise justify carrying a spear.
The question I would ask is can you make it lighter, smaller in volume, in metal, and still be effective?
I'd say the difference there is a folding shovel tends to be pretty darn compact folded so really much easier to carry, and while not exactly full size when unfolded is big enough to be useful. This spear seems to be even more awkward to carry than the solid stick that length and really a bit on the short side to be worth fighting with anyway - looks too heavy to be single handed practically, but not long enough to really give you a reach advantage over a single handed sword. However I'd love to see a sparing version tested carefully, maybe being a spear that short and top heavy isn't as bad as it seems to me.
@@foldionepapyrus3441 Agreed, though I think the design needs some work
IMO having walked in the wilderness as much as I have, and having carried 6 to 8 foot staffs I would say that's why it folds up. Long poles are a major encumbrance in the field unless you are on the road or in a field. This design allows you to easily attach it to your pack. Modern military's have spent lots of time and money developing compact tools and equipment for use. Not really that crazy. More like very forward thinking.
I was thinking backpacking.... then I looked at the wings, and thought....boar spear?
Awesome handcraft Tod! And great analysis by Matt. Love seeing it all come together.
To confirm some of both of your hypotheses I’d check out the video of the example from the Higgins/Worcester where they showcase one of these folding spetum and point out it should be carried guards riding in a coach and showing off how wealthy you are. I’ll see if I can share the video.
Oh wow, really? 😮 I've not seen or heard of that one!
@@scholagladiatoria I tried to link the video but RUclips ate the comment. I’ll link it to you on Facebook
@@dlatrexswords THANKS!
10:45 hey, maybe for a Duke's personal man at arms. Bodyguard rides in the carriage, has to get out, bam he's got a polearm.
It fits perfectly into a D&D PC's travelling kit. A polearm that fits in your saddlebags for that random encounter with owlbears or whatever.
Very interesting weapon! I'm honestly astounded that you made that in only 2 days. The blades alone would probably take me a week.
I absolutely adore this series with Matt. There is something about two knowledgeable people geek out over something so uncommon. Please do continue this lads!
Thanks! 👍
I think the only other practical use is as a bodyguard weapon. They're going to follow their patron around all of their business, but not all of it is appropriate for you to carry around a full size spear. It's definitely far more convenient folded up as seen in this video alone.
It would be a shame to destroy such a lovely piece of craftsmanship, but I'd really love to see a thorough, punishing test of this: just how long would it last in a combat scenario against spears, pollaxes, and swords? Can it even survive a single full power jab into a solid target?
I actually think that sort of test might be very important for one big reason; given the structural heft, balance and weak points, it stands to reason it would probably break into pieces that would make for reasonably good "new" smaller weapons in their own rights!
The rule of cool! The Confederates in the American Civil War made a folding half pike, which were issued with a bowie knife. I don't believe they ever saw battle, but the concept was very similar!
I think this might have been useful in italian renaissance courts. Maybe you wouldnt want to show up as a guest at anothers nobleman court heavily armed, with this stored in a chest you could save appearances and not make it look you fear being stabbed in your sleep, but your bodyguards could put it together in their room and have it ready at need and give you some security against plots and murders
Ya, especially if you were concerned your guards might be bribed or eliminated at some point, forcing you to defend yourself against other warriors with polearms. with planning & training, it would probably last you long enough to get you to an escape or long enough for help to arrive!
I can actually imagine a very wealthy nobleman who wanted to have bodyguards and security around, but didn't want to make his security obvious for one reason or another. So his guards maybe had mail under their clothing, and carried swords, and appeared to be companions or whatnot... but also each had one of these in a discrete bag, perhaps.
If you're looking for another weird weapon to make maybe try one of those Indian Katars that has a scissor blade.
As for the rondels hanging upside-down and at that weird angle, it is for pulling it as you go to ground in a grapple so you can pull it and immediately stab with it. Imagine falling on your back with your legs up to do a reverse summersault because you are putting your legs up to push the enemy away with your legs, you can put your hand down at your hip and that is the perfect angle to draw the dagger in a smooth motion, then bring it above your head to do a powerful stab. It is also in the right position to be drawn if you are kneeling down on your left knee above a prone opponent to draw and either do an above head stab or bring to your chest and then use both hands to do your full weight to pierce their armor as a very, very quick attack.
The dagger position with it hanging like that and it's main use makes perfect sense in this context.
As a modern traveling merchant (truck driver) i look at this thing and can think of several uses for something like this. Especially if the surviveing guilded examples are more show peices and there were far more basic and cheaper ones avalible that didnt survive to modern days.
First i imagine then as now weapons laws could be....complicated. something like this would be considerably easier to hide or to be overlooked as a curio or fancy goods then a sword or even a crossbow. And would be quite handy and likely a bit intimidateing to a "poor" bandit.
Second and most likely. Is some kind of show peice. Either a rich nobel mall ninjaing it up. Or perhaps for an actual show to ooohhh and ahhhh the crowds and act as a draw. Could also be as he said a smith showing his "look what i can do and the other smith cant" work off.
Third and going back to the seond a bit would be as some ceremonial peice. Rich nobel with a bunch of guards whipping these out and dropping into a stanch or whatever would make QUITE the impression. Or perhaps a mong/fighting school ect used these in ritual type things.
Finally it could be as simple as tales comeing from a far away land inspired a smith to go "hay.....that sounds intresting. Ima make something like that in an exotic style and claim its related to those tales of far away lands and is some awsome exotic thing used by some legendary ninja things then try to pawn it off to some moron with more cash then brains"
note that the joint or joints are going to make this in the price range of a good sword--the joint's going to be the expensive bit--so even basic ones are going to be rather expensive in relation to a standard spetum.
@@thekaxmax True but cost is relitive even today. A merchant worried about losing his entire cargo but also known to go to places that are....iffy on weapons may decide something like this is a much cheaper investment then losing an entire cargo/his life. I would imagine one of these even if they cost as much as two fine swords would still be cheaper then a full cargo and all of ones money. Or ones life.
Same with a show. Lets say a traveling show got just one of the knockoffs or a really popular one a rich version. It would be quite the draw indeed. In those days stuff like this would be the equivlent of someone landing a blackhawk in a mall parking lot in a sleepy town then offered tickets to see it up close. Everyone and their dog would be stareing at it and happy to pay a few bucks to get their photo in it. Same for a noble, a half dozen guards whipping these out for pagentry would both show great wealth and status while being a draw to the eye.
As towards smugglers yet again same thing. A few of these would be damn easy to hide compared to other weapons and be a shock if a goods trade went bad.
While cost is a factor. Remimber cash ans value has always been and will always will be very relitive to each individual on an item. Without a proper history of this item though its all speculation at this point.
A bit like someone from a starwars level of tech universe finding one of our "modern" laser cannons in an attic someplace a thousand years after it was made. To them it would be entirely impractical, extremely expensive, not as good as existing systems in many cases and very fragile. With no documentation or history they would be just as confused as we are over this spear thing.
@@arcticfox5118 a merchant wanting just defense will get half a dozen non-folding spetums and the men to carry them than 2 of these for the same money. When I say 'expensive' I mean it.
@@arcticfox5118 Not really; if you were a merchant, and therefore cost-conscious, would you not prefer 6 armed guards with non-folding spetums over 2 with folding ones for the same cost? If they are guarding your wagons there are places to keep the spetums, they don't need to be folding.
The fact that he made that on a whim in 2 days is amazing to me. Mechanically inclined people like that are so brilliant and different its fascinating
Oh that's cool. I definitely need to make one.
It seems like it totally makes sense for a bodyguard. If someone was traveling with a small team of guards or even just a serious weapon that could be fit in a trunk to hold a hallway.
adding to the fancy nobleman theory, if you were on a merchant ship that was boarded by pirates, if you had that folding weapon you might be the only person with any sort of polearm in that combat. That fact alone might not make any actual difference in real life, but envisioning that scenario might make the nobleman feel smart, prompting him to spent too much money on a fancy boondoggle.
I would think that on a ship it would be easy enough to have a rack or chest of pole arms up on deck for use if need be. Weren’t harpoons for whaling basically a spear with a barbed point and a line attached?
Could it be a high status HUNTING weapon? It doesn't look like it would stand up to battlefield combat conditions, but dispatching a boar or deer? Those nobles often went with all of the pomp and circumstance of the courts behind them, and nothing would set the cities talking than some rich noble pulling THAT out to dispatch one of the lords boar or deer! I seem to recall a text from Spain that recalls spears similarly described as high status hunting weapons. Even down to them deploying automatically! I will try to find the name of the text to share with everyone!
Edit: I found 3 text examples of weapons with matching or similar descriptions!
1. Year 1543 Texts from the inventory of the Duke of Mantua, Francesco Gonzaga list a deployable "scissor" spetum.
2.Nine centuries of hunting weapons- L.G. Boccia
3. Inventario Illuminado, year 1544 for emperor Charles V
The number 2 choice is the one I remember reading, which is why I called them hunting weapons. However, Inventario Illuminado lists them as a high status MERCENARY weapon! Gonzaga's inventories only have basic descriptions, however, they do almost fully describe this spetum, from the fact that they used re-deployable in the descriptor, to it having an expanding scissor blade that ALSO deployed!
It seems like it'd be good for hauling into a dungeon, carrying through town, carrying on a saddlebag, etc etc. So, presumably it was for an officer's baggage, when they wanted a polearm available but didn't want to have a long stick all the time. Long poles are a pain in the butt to haul around, and don't fit in portable holes easily. And, of course, it folds to be non-pointy and good for a bag of holding or even a quiver of holding as well. Perfect for adventurers!
i think Matt hit the spot with the landsknecht making a ca-tunk.
Amazing and bonkers, sure seems like a status/show-off/display piece, especially with the all the gilding and abundant ornamentation. Very cool.
I mean, would a person who can afford all the work that goes into the mechanism have any reason to not have it gilded and decorated too?
as an italian i couldn't help myself, the pronouciation of Armi Bianche italiane; the Ch in italian is always a K and we also pronounce all the sounds in the words, so it's more like: armi bianKeh italiAhnEh
Folding spetum! Yes, that is what it is btw. They were used mostly for police use ( the equivalent of it, rather. Town guard/sheriff type activity) EDIT: *I should have just said “law enforcement,” that describes the concept at the time better than anything else I can think of, police is too modern a job title and “town guards” only existed in settlements/urban centers which possessed a garrison, for the most part. Or so we think, based on current knowledge.**. Folding spetums… spetummmmmses… spetumi? Whatever. Spetums. They were also used by some of the gentry types or their bodyguards for self defense and protection while traveling (fits well inside a carriage, collapsible=inherently useful while away from home/traveling, especially back then when it took SO much longer to get anywhere and you generally brought all of your shit with you from place to place, furniture included alot of the time. Thus, everything you possessed had to be portable to some extent ). Kindof like a late medieval/early renaissance equivalent of a blunderbuss/coach gun, just very, very fancy and sharp. And I think you’re right about the Italian title for it, if not it was just “spetum” also but with Metatron’s accent. Then again, I believe it’s been fairly solidly established at this point that pole weapon naming conventions back then were just as screwed up, inaccurate, regionally inconsistent, and wildly unhelpful as they are now. It would seem even when polearms were widely used, contemporary, and familiar to everyone who happened to see one, the name of any given variety or hybrid of varieties could be called something different not just in other languages, but even just the next village over could call it something different. It could be ever so slightly different because of a sliiiightly different regional accent or dialect, or it could be something else entirely for any number of reasons, or of course every possible point on the spectrum between. I thought I was the only one who knew these were a thing, it’s really cool to see one with a bit of perspective available rather than grainy old black-and-whites.
I think Matt's got the right idea with the theory of dismounting and flicking out your spear.
If I had a possible use case for a spear, I’d want one in a scabbard on my horse’s saddle (as men used to do with Winchester rifles) if I were traveling by myself or only with my servant. It’s a compromise to be sure but I can see it fitting a need.
This looks like it would be perfect for a video game, since time doesn't matter there and you can have the thing just flick open. Perfect for a short character to carry around
Nobody expects the -Spanish Inquisition- folding poleaxe.
PS Horseback stowage was my guess just as you added the footnote. Lovely work in just two days btw.
The first time Todd asked "but why?" I was thinking "isn't that obvious?" but by the end I was thinking it must be a silly idea ...
It is always a learning experience tuning in to Tod's Workshop. Tod, do you think for the end of the year you could give us your top ten medieval weapons?
This is such a joyful episode 😊 Thanks chaps ❤
Tod: "put your hand in gingerly..."
Matt: "Nervous laughter"
it is for a D&D adventurer carrying a usual load out on his back. Sword, shield, crossbow, spear all while crawling through a tunnel. The wings make me think of a Swiss Army knife.
After the last great expo of 1520 (The Field of the Cloth of Gold) with it's wine fountains, popup palace and not to mention the demonstrations of archery (the French finally realised it's value a little late) and live jousting. There was an attempt at a revival 30 years later, but on a less ambitious scale, more of a trade show. And some of the demonstrators had totally implausible visions of the feature (no not flying cars), easy to transport, blingy, self assembling polearms.
I wonder if there was a Spike that screwed in the other end?
I'm reminded of one of the running gags in "Asterix in Corsica", where all the Corsicans use flick knives. Finally as they get ready for the big battle with the Roman garrison all the swords are giant flick knives and one guy has a baton that expands into a full size pilum.
That's a great concealed weapon for those situations when you and your friends find yourself having to resist a gang's cavalry charge. Could be a life saver even
I would say it's a "show piece" for an armourer.
Possibly and that was my gut, but I the Matts' idea may have nailed it
I saw a video on YT long time ago.
Where someone had a functional reproduction.
Can't remember a hinge on the staff.
His one could unfold instantly and was read to go.
The explanation for the use:
For guards which ride on a carriage.
When need they can leave and immediately get ready to do what have to be done.
Wish I had the money to do the stuff Mat does really enjoy the historical fighting.
I'm a lucky boy 😊
"Just make it Guido, SOMEONE will buy it..."
It's a Brandistock! Or at least a variation thereof, more usually with a 1.5m non-folding shaft. Other options would be to have the blade stored in the shaft and rotate around the head - think of it being a civilian flick-(polearm) with a longer reach than contemporary swords
Ideas:
1) A spy / special-agent weapon; suitable for special-purpose mission/situations.
2) For when you and/or your bodyguards want to be more well armed [than you appear] if traveling, for example, somewhere known to be dangerous for most anyone, much less dressed as the prosperous merchant, nobleman or whatever prime target for kidnap/ransom/robbery you happen to be. (your method of travel, body language, speech-patterns etc might give you away eventually, even if you do wear a disguise, so having the concealed backup weapons might be the "equalizer", or enough of a threat to prevent the confrontation/violence before it begins!)
3) Even if it is not going to hold up to much "full-force", "rough-use", my guess is that the points of failure (the joints) would allow it to break into separate pieces which would each make reasonably good weapons in and of themselves! A variety of war-weaponry come to my mind as it is disassembled through violent clashes; studded clubs, shortened-spear, maybe a weird javelin, short sword, godendeng, hammer, or mace-thing.
I can totally see a 16th century yuppie pull this out at a tourney to flex on everyone.
This is such a fantasy RPG weapon.
Awesome! Right up my niche as a product designer and mechanic who collects weapons! I really hope you get a chance to finish the blade deploying system although I'm not sure how the UK legal system treats 'experimental' weapons, they won't even allow the two (cool but useless) tiny spikes on the "Highlander" movie Kurgan's sword's hilt to be spring-loaded or even deployed with a cam system for the collectible blunt version!
Based on the fanciness of it may be just a ceremonial weapon. If a noble was traveling on a ship his procession/ ceremonial guard could have these. Folds up to save room on board then when you get to the dock un fold them and bam 6 guys with fancy spears. Same could be said of carriages.
I like that notion, for a travelling VIP with associated retinue who want to look like the palace guard when arriving and meeting the local dignitaries. It definitely has the feel of something that could be used as a weapon if need be, but it’s primary purpose is to express the wealth, style and technical superiority of the owner.
Well, it's not quite the switchblade spear from Asterix and the Corsicans, but it's getting there...
I haven't seen that, but need to look.......
So from a fighting perspective, I can see that it doesn't make much sense.
BUT... from a marketing perspective, it's BRILLIANT! If you're a highly talented maker of whatever, you want items to show off your talent, not necessarily sell.
Think if it as the medieval version of the "concept cars" that auto makers put together.
this is either the coolest thing or the dumbest thing, lol. I'm not sure but I absolutely love it
It's a signaling weapon used by officers to relay tactical directions to troops. Partisans, spontoons and the like remained in use after the proliferation of the musket for this reason.
Oh, that's why it can be made as a folding item, in case I wasn't clear on that. In the role to which it was relegated from the 16th century onward, it would not matter that the hinges made it both heavier and weaker, because the appearance of it as a weapon was just a vestigial trait at that point in time.
It was clearly designed for HEMA students who used the Metro (and, maybe, gondolas) to get around. 😁
Seriously, though, I knee-jerk want to assume it's a parade weapon-but it might be their "shotgun in the trunk" like Matt suggested. There's a thread on MyArmoury that talks about the one in the Higgins Collection and it is sort of a "switchblade" mechanism.
And if you truly want something weirder there's an historical sword out there which is also a crossbow. Not even a foot of it is sharpened because of the bow. The arms are held open by these little cantilever flukes that fold out against the direction the bow arms fold. Absolutely bonkers, prolly designed for hunting (and showing off) and, going by the style of the hilt, prolly the same era as these spetums/speti. No real information on it; just a picture purportedly taken in Rome, posted to Reddit and passed around the intarwebs-going by the photo, it's clearly in a museum, though.
Tod needs to make a book of all the weird weapons he's made and call it "Codex Cutlerius"
It looks decent for hunting, it could fit in a pack on a horse or something and you probably don’t have to make all that many movements to jab a boar. I don’t know if you’d be able to sneak that close to a boar
I was thinking the same thing: boar hunting as a sport.
I like it Tod & I'm with Matt. There's a reason. My mind goes to...a pole arm for lightly armoured troops who have a different primary. An archer? Move in place, use it thrust into the ground for defence, grasp and use for melee. But...high status. How about a folding boar spear? Modern boar guns are short for use in tight woodland. Boar hunting was high status...
Pure speculation but it could be a something a very rich noble would buy for his bodyguards. A bit like those gun shields Henry VIII had (fancy experimental weapons too expensive for the common soldier). Body guard often used large two handed weapons like glaives and great swords. The folding would make them less conspicuous and easier to transport. Then you could get them out if you felt there was going to be trouble.
Yes I think it's a gimmick statement piece ordered by someone like Henry VIII, as you say.
Exactly. Bodyguard close-carry weapons would only need to be useful for the first engagement, after that more durable other things would come into play. Pulling a very shiny switchblade pole arm out of hammer-space would serve as an impressive intimidation display, perfect for a high status bodyguard who doesn’t want to stain the rugs unnecessarily.
It's reasonable for a traveling mercenary with extra coin to spend on. Plus you could shorten it to use in tight areas.
Now that I think about it there is a D&D treasure that is similar. Rod of Lordly Might is a magical treasure so not as spectacularly impractical as this piece. Any chance you could make the blade flame?
A Rod of Lordly Might is basically a horemans mace when it its default mode. The lance function is pretty fun.
I remember when Michaelcthulhu used to build stuff like that. Back before he moved to the US
Hopefully someday he can do it again, those were some neat projects.
Wait, you MADE that?! Massive respect.
OMG, Todd, you made the medieval bulpup rifle! Lots of hypothetical advantages, with worse ergonomics, different new set of things to practice compared to everyone else, and needlessly additionally expensive. (I love shooting my tavor more than my AR, I understand the appeal).
TWO DAYS?! You made that in two days??? Man, I don't even have words, that is so much work! Wow. A master, truly.
Ohh, that's beautiful.
My D&D char needs one.
One could totally use those in a trojan horse situation, hide them in a small space for an intrusion force to sneak inside a walled town or castle.
That is a lovely bit of work, and highly impractical (but cool all the same).
Thanks
Did I just find an unlisted episode while randomly looking at your videos? Hahahaha
Great job Tod, as always
no you didnt
Yeah put it in a list a few days ago by mistake, so you truly were the first.
This was for a bodyguard who would travel with a VIP, it folds for concealment and to fit in a coach or a ship's cabin.
Matt Easton, the Commissar.
I could see this being used for hunting. Even nowadays it's not uncommon for people to hunt wild boar with a winged spear, & having something that can fold up & store in a backpack seems smart if it's a bit of a hike to the hunting/camping site you'd plan to use.
For those days when I'm backpacking and I get the urge to hunt a boar.
15:25 This indirectly raises an interesting point, this could be the most baller backup weapon, have a full spear as your first, one of these as a backup, a sword as your backup-backup, a long dagger as your backup-backup-backup, and a short dagger as your backup-backup-backup-backup!!
I think this is no different that todays super fancy gun mods, car mods etc. People love novel gear that looks cool and has interesting functions. It does not have to be practical in an actual fight or for every day driving (in the example of extravagant car mods). People just like cool stuff :)
very true
I don't know, having a polearm that is going to give you a huge reach advanrtage in a fight, that you can fold up so it fits in an innocuous-looking case that's easy to carry in buildings and other confined spaces and then rapidly deploys, seems REALLY practical to me.
Not for a battlefield, at all. But for a couple of scruffy robbers with daggers? Or an assassin in church (see all the Medici stuff)? That's a pretty big advantage.
Mall Ninjas are timeless
It seems like it was built to be a fancy hunting spear. Having it fold would make it much easier to ride a horse through a forest with it opposed to a regular spear. The wealthy in mideval Europe would often hunt by using dogs to corner an animal so they can go in and kill it with a spear or a sword. In America, some people still hunt wild hogs like that but generally use a large knife instead of a sword or spear to finish it off.
My guess is maybe this is hunting weapon for when some well to do person needs thing like this, but has to travel to some location for the hunt. Since this folds it could be carried in fairly small case
I would 1000% buy that
Love you Tod and Matt!💚
Thanks - it's another awesome build by Tod!❤