The LDS uses the KJV of the Bible and here is the exact quote from the KJV: 1 Corinthians 15: 29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? One needs to read very carefully: "they". Who are they? "They" are certainly not "we" the Christians to whom St. Paul is writing!
That is a good question. Who are they? They certainly are not the Christians Paul is writing to. But they could be another group of Christians. Paul does not condemn the practice nor is it spoken of again in the scriptures as being some kind of heresy. We simply have to little information from the Bible to come to any definite conclusions.
Please read in context. Paul is referring to the heretics in Corinth. They were like Hymenaeus and Philetus in 2 Ti 2:17-18. Some there didn't believe in the resurrection like the Sadducees. Yet some were also going as far as baptising themselves for the dead. Many false practices with the Corinthians. Paul though, never mentions good or evil, right or wrong in the epistles to the Corinthians. The Corinthians were feeding themselves with the tree of knowledge of good and evil but Paul was steering them to eat of the Tree of Life who is Christ. Christ is the solution for every wronging in the epistle. Grace and peace
Also if we look at the context of 1 Cor 15 we say it has nothing to do with baptism in dead people. We can take one verse and make it say whatever we want. Context is key.
“nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the stewardship from God which is by faith.” (1 Timothy 1:4)
I am no longer a Mormon but I was for most of my life. I no longer believe that baptism for the dead is a necessary doctrine of God. Mormons claim that their interpretation of the Bible is correct. Most, if not all, Christian religions, likewise claim that their interpretation of the Bible is correct, as can be seen in this video with its Biblical justifications for its position that baptism for the dead is not required. Each claims they are the authority on Biblical interpretation and each uses Biblical scriptures to justify their beliefs and "disprove" others beliefs. Though I no longer believe that baptism for the dead is a doctrine of God, I do believe there is a legitimate argument to be made for it based on Biblical teachings. 1 Cor. 1: 1-2 (Paul is writing to the members of the church) 1 Cor. 15: 13 (Paul is trying to convince the members that there will be a resurrection) NIV 1 Cor. 15: 29 "Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?" Why would Paul use the doctrine of baptism for the dead [per the video, a false doctrine] to convince the members of Christ's church that there will be a resurrection [per the video, a true doctrine]? Let that sink in. Why would Paul point to a false doctrine [baptism for the dead] to support his claim that a another doctrine [the resurrection] is true? That doesn't make sense. Here's a specific example of what I mean. That would be like me trying to convince you that the resurrection is really going to happen by pointing to the Mormons and saying, "Now if there is no resurrection, what will Mormons do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are Mormons baptized for them?" Mormons can also make the argument that the gospel is preached to the dead as justification for baptism for the dead by pointing to 1 Pet. 3: 18-20 and 1 Pet. 4: 6. Again, this is not me trying to make an argument in support of baptism for the dead being a real doctrine of God but pointing out that there are many different ways of interpreting Biblical scriptures, as evidence by the many different Christian religions that all seem to profess that their interpretation is the correct one.
The mormons believe in the book of mormon more than they believe in The Holy Bible Your answers to God or in The Bible not in a book that a man made And that's the reason why I walked away from that church
I have many friends who are Mormons. I always pray over them - and that the Holy Spirit will give them revelation and they will pursue Jesus. Any advice you can give me?
Paradise isn't heaven. He died on the cross next to Jesus. Jesus and the thief go to paradise. Then, when Christ resurrects He tell Mary "touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father." So He went to paradise but His Father wasn't there? Yep. Paradise is the place for good spirits to wait for the resurrection then judgement. Hell or "prison" or the "lake of fire and brimstone" is the place where evil spirits and those who hadn't had the opportunity to accept Christ wait for the same. BUT 1 Peter chapters 3 and 4 talk of Christ, when He died, going and preaching the gospel to those who have died so that they can receive the gospel and "live." Meaning they could get out of prison by accepting Christ's gospel.
@@monocuco818 Paradise is heaven and heaven is paradise its same kindly read Luke 16:19-31 it is story of Lazarus and a rich man, Lazarus died and went to heaven and rich man died went to hell now you are calling hell a "prison" and have a view that some one could baptize on that rich mans behalf and set him free but when you read Luke 16:19-31 in verse 26 it says it is impossible for rich man to cross over to heaven so bible is very clear that baptism of dead is not right, 2ndly bible says eternal torment and eternal means never ending everlasting
Chris Humphries,paradise is another word for heaven ,there is no "resting place " between death and resurrection (Luke 16 tells us what happens after death,there is consciousness for the righteous and the wicked....)
Mormons believe that Joe Smith restored the gospel , Jesus said “It is finished” in other words his work establishing his church and gospel were finished , Why then did Joe think he needed to do more or complete the work that the savior was here to complete ?
Because there was an apostasy. The idea that baptism is not necessary is unbiblical. One of the things Joseph Smith did was correct this error modern Christianity has stumbled on.
> Why then did Joe think he needed to do more or complete the work ... Because they claim that God is 'lame' not strong and His church strayed from the faith.
Jesus definitely taught baptism as an essential part of salvation. John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit."
Born of water meaning natural child birth. During natural child birth a mothers water breaks. It's a common saying. This is evident by what Nicodemus says in the verse before. Can a man enter again into his mother's womb? The Lord's response then clarifies that he is in fact talking about first is a natural birth and then a spiritual rebirth. He even reemphasizes this point in verse 6 saying that which is born of flesh is flesh. Natural birth. And that which is born of spirit is spirit. Spiritual
@@troydickerson8275 Assuming your interpretation is correct, I.E Being birthed naturally is a requirement to enter the kingdom of God. Wouldn’t that mean that Adam and Eve cannot be heirs of heaven, since they were not birthed naturally?
It should be remembered that in 1st century Judaism, the Jewish people were very obsessed with ritual purity. It was their practice to immerse themselves, a physical representation of repentance before “going up” (“aliyah”) to “God’s Presence” in the Jerusalem Temple. So some had trouble separating the act from the symbol of the act. When some Christian died (‘going up” to the Presence of God), people may have thought that to properly send them off, it would be good to representationally participate in the “sign of repentance and cleansing of sin” on their behalf. Note that Paul does not endorse the practice, nor does he scold them for it. Some people ask for communion be served them when on their deathbed. A practice that is not necessary, but nonetheless, one can understand the appeal of a symbolic act of reaffirmation of loyalty to Christ at a momentous juncture.
The last chapter of the Book of Mormon gives the reader an undisputed answer to those who are seeking to know if the record is true. I tested that promise when I was about 16 years old. I thank my seminary teacher who called me and gave me a challenge to pray to know it was true. I took my question to my Father in Heaven. My question: Is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints thy true Church on the Earth today. I will never forget the answer I received. It was immediate. It was the most intense burning of the bosom. It was so exquisite so powerful that I couldn’t sleep for hours. I’m 62 now and I remember that night like it was yesterday. That experience has been a keystone of my Faith in Christ and His restored Church.
No it's not a Biblical teaching of the apostles or Christ himself. Please read in context. Paul is referring to the heretic practices in Corinth. They were like Hymenaeus and Philetus in 2 Ti 2:17-18. Some there didn't believe in the resurrection like the Sadducees. Yet some were also going as far as baptising themselves for the dead. The Corinthians were injecting their gnostic and philosophical practices to chritianity. Many false practices with the Corinthians. Paul though, never mentions good or evil, right or wrong in the epistles to the Corinthians. The Corinthians were feeding themselves with the tree of knowledge of good and evil but Paul was steering them to eat of the Tree of Life who is Christ. The moment Paul would've said right or wrong, he would've eaten from the wrong tree. Therefore he teaches Christ to them. Christ is the solution for every wronging in the epistle. Grace and peace
The debt is raised my grandma died this year and I testify that her spirit went to heaven that day I miss her so much but I know through the atonement of Jesus Christ I will be able to see her again one day
Followed you up until you said there is no proxy place between death and resurrection. So what did the scriptures mean when Jesus went to preach to the spirits in prison after he died on the cross?
1 Peter 3:18-19 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 1 Peter 4:6 6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the Lords restored Church
LDS folks don’t believe that baptism is necessary for salvation. That is from Christ alone. They believe that it’s necessary for exaltation. Just thought I’d put that out there as it’s a very important detail.
The phrase “on behalf of the dead” is not actually in the Greek. The Greek word can mean “for” or “for the sake of,” not “on behalf of.” this is reflected in more modern English translations (NKJV, NABRE, NIV, etc.) The best explanation I've seen for 1 Corinthians 15:29 goes as follows: Those who were baptized for the dead were baptized “for” them in the sense of taking their place on the church membership roll. In other words, when believers died (many through martyrdom), new believers came forward to occupy the places left vacant by their absence. Paul’s logic is, why would these new believers put their own lives at risk (knowing that baptism would mark them for martyrdom) if there is no life after death? Those baptized for the dead were brought to faith in Christ by the testimonies of those now dead. The hope of resurrection espoused by the recently deceased believers continued in the faith of the newly baptized. I hope this brings a sense of clarity to those that find the LDS interpretation lacking, misinformed or superficial. God Bless.
This is very helpful, many many thanks. p.s. I'm watching with subtitles and around 5:44 where he says it's man made and can be found nowhere in the Bible the subtitles read 'can be found anywhere in the Bible.' Thank you again for all your work and help on these topics! Grace and Peace.
Anyone can have an opinion and interpret the scriptures. The law of baptism has not ended. So shouldn’t this still be something we do rather than just damning them to hell?
That practice was never mentioned by other Apostles, neither by those who came after them, those who had been disciples of Apostles including Paul. And after them came the first church fathers Irenaeus etc and no one mentions baptism of the dead. So it's clear that it's a heresy and should not be practiced by anyone. It's appalling, Jesus said that every soul will be in front of the final judgement. It's certain that no one will be asked there if they've been baptized as dead. So it's also a denial of how we are saved which is having faith in Christ. That Mormonism practice and doctrine is an abomination because it can't be from God.
Actually there is evidence of early Christian baptism for the dead. Not to mention 1 Peter 3 and 4 set up the precedent of redemption of the dead. The doctrine is there, but the actual practice of baptism for the dead is not clearly mentioned (meaning 1 Corinthians doesn't clearly state whether the members were doing it, or if it was a good thing or not). But Christ went and preached the gospel to the dead, and it is clear in the Bible that Baptism is necessary, so there definitely is precedent. Not to mention scriptures that say that they without us cannot be saved nor us without them. Not to mention Jehovah promised that He would gather the children of Israel... not just the living.
So is it a sin or wrong if I do it this Saturday August 20, 2022? I’m a new convert of Latter Day Saints and they invited me to the temple to do it, but unsure if it’s morally wrong or evil??
Update, the deed has been done, and I feel guilty, I baptized my father and grandfather on August 20, 2022! I realize now that it is wrong and feels like necromancy or evil! May god forgive me! I learned so much now about the false teachings of Joseph Smith, but I’m still with the church, it will be a year on July 9, 2023! I’m not sure how to get out of the church, or should?? But I do know now that I don’t want anything to do with the Temple or Endowment or sealing! It feels wrong and mostly unbiblical! Thank you so much for this video
@@johnferredino5111 I know it’s hard to leave it, but you are correct in their perversions. The most common thing that happens is an LD member leaves the church and becomes agnostic. I say please find a local Christian church, one that teaches from the Bible. If you’re in a heavily LDS populated area, it’s a good chance that these churches know and understand what you’re going through. I will be praying for you brother!
That is mistakenly how many look at this verse. It's really understandable is you use a proper Translation of the text and understand it in proper context. Paul is not saying whatsoever that people were being baptized for those who died, but that when we are baptized we are baptized into Jesus' death so that we can partake of his resurrection. If Christ did not raise from the dead our faith is in vain as well as our baptism in that faith since we were baptized in his, Jesus, name to partake of his death. It also matches Romans 6 and Colossians 2 when understood in proper context. 1 Cor. 15.29 GW However, people are baptized because the dead ⌞will come back to life⌟. What will they do? If the dead can’t come back to life, why do people get baptized as if they can ⌞come back to life⌟? Romans 6:3-5 Don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 When we were baptized into his death, we were placed into the tomb with him. As Christ was brought back from death to life by the glorious power of the Father, so we, too, should live a new kind of life. 5 If we’ve become united with him in a death like his, certainly we will also be united with him when we come back to life as he did. Colossians 2:11 This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God, who brought him back to life. Read the chapter again with this understanding and see if it doesn't make more sense. Misunderstanding of this verse has created a false doctorine and Peter warned the church that many twist Pauls words to their own destruction as they do other scriptures. Jesus said baptism was essential in Mark 16:16, john 3:5 and Peter says baptism saves in 1 Peter 3:20-21. Faith is a process that begins in your mind and ends in your actions or obedience. .. ironically the Ephesians 2 verses you use from Paul is misunderstood seeing in Acts 19:1-6 we see Paul go so far as to re-baptize Ephesian believers in the name of Jesus to recieve the Spirit. Look at Acts 22:16. What does he say baptism washes away... in faith and repentance if course or your just getting wet...Read Hebrews 11 and realize that faith is a process that must be begin in your mind and accomplished through your obedient faith. Baptism and Repentance are not works but faith in the commands of God. Read Matthew 3 and Luke 3 and see where the baptism of repentance actually came from and what it accomplished. Trad what Jesus said in Matthew 7:29-30 about John's baptism that he continues and passed along to his apostles. To say its not nessessarly is false doctorine and goes against the scriptures.
We can assume that baptism is indeed necessary for salvation as Jesus himself was baptized to fulfill all righteousness and set an example for us to be baptized also. Have faith in him includes also to believe in what he did.
I respect your perspective, but I disagree with you on this. The Bible makes it clear that good works are a result of salvation, not a requirement for it. Let's take the thief on the cross for example. He never had to oppertunity to get baptized or anything, but Jesus told him they'd be in paradise together.
It’s not required for salvation. If we look at John 3:1-8 in context, born of water means the physical birth. But Jesus did say we should be baptized, and we should. But a religious ritual does not save us. Plenty of verses make that crystal clear, Romans 10:9, Eph 1:13, Luke 22:39-43, John 3:16-18, Mark 16:16 (which also gets taken out of context). If it helps, here is a sort video I made addressing John 3:1-8 that constantly is taken out of context ruclips.net/video/muXX0VxSSyU/видео.html
@@prayerwarrior7778 So we must be born to be saved? Why would Jesus have said that? That seems like it would be self-evident. Here are many scriptures that say and/or support that baptism is essential: See John 3:-5, Mark 16:16, 1 Peter 3:21, Luke 7:30, 1 Corinthians 12:13, Acts 2:8,37-41, Galatians 3:27, Matthew 28:18-20, Romans 6:1-23, Acts 10:44-48, Luke 3:21-22, Mathew 7:13-14, Titus 3:5, Acts 8:12, Acts 16:33, Acts 22:16, Ephesians 4:5. The dunking of a body in water, even if a religious ritual, even if done by proper authority, never has had any power to save us. The act done in and by true faith in Christ, however, is essential for salvation in the Kingdom of God. The Bible also makes it clear that the gift of the Holy Ghost (more than the spirit being felt or "poured out" at at certain time on someone) is only given by the laying on of hands after baptism.
@@homemadeguacamole2883 Paradise is not Heaven. Christ even tells Mary Magdalene to "touch Me not, for I have not yet ascended to the Father." Paradise is the resting place of the righteous between death and the resurrection. The wicked travail in prison (Shoel). Heaven comes only after resurrection and judgement.
Zach P , youhaven't answered anybody on the thief on the cross incident where he wasn't baptized and Jesus said" today you will be with me in Paradise" (heaven)...... We should get baptized but it's not essential for salvation it's more of a announcing to the world that you've turned from your sins and died and rose again with Christ.....
Even though there's no clarity on what Paul meant by the phrase it doesn't mean that the practice of being baptized for the dead didn't exist!.If it was mentioned by Paul then it existed because what is the point of mention it if it was a lie?
Why did Jesus go to the spirits in prison and proclaim the Gospel to them if there was no possible hope of redemption ? Perhaps He just thumming His nose at them? Why was Jesus baptized to fulfill all righteousness? When did an unchangeable God change his mind about the righteousness of baptism? Why did Jesus fill the need to be baptized, but it's OK for Christians today to just skip it?
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. - [ Romans 1:20 ] And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness. - [ Genesis 15:6 ] Not knowing Jesus isn't what sends us to hell. Sin sends us to hell. God has written his laws on our hearts so we know right from wrong but many of us choose to ignore it.
@everyday tenor so true tenor, if people thinks that when you die, it’s over, you are 100% wrong. If people have not been baptized or received their endowment, WE can do their work for them through the OTHER SIDE of the veil
Mark 16:16 clearly emphasizes that damnation comes from unbelief. The portion of the verse mentioning baptism is in passive tense with less emphasis, and can be understood to be people who have already believed and therefore been baptized. This single verse is more easily understood when taken into context with the entirety of scripture and the clear instructions elsewhere (ex Acts 16:31) that belief and trust in Christ alone lead to salvation. Only those who do not believe are damned. Hope this helps!
Regarding Mark 16:16, it is important to remember that there are some textual problems with Mark chapter 16, verses 9-20. There is some question as to whether these verses were originally part of the Gospel of Mark or whether they were added later by a scribe. As a result, it is best not to base a key doctrine on anything from Mark 16:9-20, such as snake handling, unless it is also supported by other passages of Scripture. These verses don't appear in some of the older, most reliable manuscripts. This is great evidence for textual criticism and why we know when something is amiss. If you're not familiar with this, Googel Mark 16, short version vs. long version.
MORMONS, THERE IS NO BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD. Scripture is very clear in stating that this life is the only chance we get. Once we die, our fate is sealed: HEBREWS 9:27 "It is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgement..." There are no "second chances" after death.
This might be true if we lived in an era without continual revelation. Baptism for the dead has been reserved for this final and last dispensation of the fulness of times wherein all things will be revealed. The New Testament Church may not have practiced Baptism for the dead because the time had not yet come. However, surely they knew that the gospel would be preached to the dead (1 Peter 3:19; 4:6) and that the ordinances of the gospel would be available to them. A just and fair God has a plan to save all of His children, Truly the hearts if the fathers are turning to their children as we undertake this great work.
John 3:5 born of water means the physical birth. If it hePls I made a video on this that 6 minutes and explains it better than I could in writing ruclips.net/video/muXX0VxSSyU/видео.html
Nowhere in the context of the passage is baptism even mentioned. While baptism is mentioned later in this chapter (John 3:22-30), that is in a totally different setting (Judea instead of Jerusalem) and at a different time from the discussion with Nicodemus. This is not to say Nicodemus was unfamiliar with baptism, either from the Jewish practice of baptizing Gentile converts to Judaism, or from John the Baptist’s ministry. However, simply reading these verses in context would give one no reason to assume Jesus was speaking of baptism, unless one was looking to read into the passage a preconceived idea or theology. To automatically read baptism into this verse simply because it mentions “water” is unwarranted.
Romans 6:3-5 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the alikeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Also note that in 1 Corinthians 15:41-42 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: I expect that the likeness of Christ's resurrection would the the glory of the sun.
4:20 Paul is making a list of Christian evidences for the resurrection. Christ’s religion is the only religion that saves, only he has power to overcome death. Paul knows this. Why would he point to anything outside of Christ as evidence for the resurrection? It makes no sense. My conclusion is that paul is aware of the practice. He doesn’t need to command it because the instruction has already be given. He then uses the practice as evidence for belief in the resurrection.
Lazarus and the rich man isn’t about heaven and hell. It’s about judgement against the Jewish nation and their being cast off and the gentiles being brought isn’t the favor of the Abrahamic promises. It’s not a heaven and hell parable. If it were it would be having people in hell talking to people in heaven.
The difference between LDS people and others is that we believe in modern day revelation. Our prophet receives revelation on behalf of all God’s children. Baptism for the dead is revelation. Also, there were many precious things removed from the Bible, how do you know it wasn’t in what was removed? Also, you must not be a father, or don’t truly love your children. Our Heavenly Father will not turn us away because we don’t get an opportunity to hear the gospel or be baptized while on earth. As a parent I would never look at my children and say, “You have not had the opportunity to hear of me and my gospel, see ya later!” I love my children and our Father in Heaven loves us and he wants to be with us just like we want to be with our children. The God you speak of must be different because my Father in Heaven is a loving God, and will not forsake me because of me not having the opportunity to hear the gospel. That’s ridiculous.
You are misquoting I CORINTHIANS 15: 12-14 Paul is hypothetically assumes the the false premise of NO RESURRECTION to show far-reaching implication. Christianity completely depends on the real physical resurrection of the dead body of CHRIST; otherwise, it all a lie. NOWHERE in I Corinthians 15 are we instructed to performed Baptism for the Dead. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, SCRIPTURE IS VERY CLEAR IN STATING. That this life is the only chance we get. Once we die, our fate is sealed. HEBREWS 9:27 "It is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment..." There are "no second chances" after death.
I sent my brother George and he was baptized for me. Nope. So less so for me when I dead. Jesus was Eternal God, and man HIS death ALONE is an atonement for the sins of ALL HUMANITY. That is the one thing we can't emulate, however we can die to sin.
You say, “The whole Bible is clear about this point….” In Jesus’ own words… (John 3:5) “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” All that He did, He did as an example. To show us the way. Christ was Baptized. Are these not major contradictions to your claim? As per the words and actions of the Savior Himself?? Maybe you haven’t read the entire New Testament? You shared… 1 Corinthians 15:29 “29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?” This is a snippet of their conversation. A recording. Not for you. Or me. In our time. For them. Then. The Sadducees, who did not believe in the resurrection. They knew what it meant, Baptism for the dead. He didn’t need to explain it. In fact it’s so plain to see that he actually uses it as a common reference point to clarify the resurrection. He is effectively saying, “I know you don’t believe Jesus really rose from the tomb. You think we fakes it. Hey, you know the baptisms that go on for those who have passed, right? You are Jewish so of course you do. You know what goes on there. So why do it at all if they will not also be resurrected?” You said, lIf this is so important it should be thoroughly explained in the Bible..” That could be said in so many topics. If it was, would it be understood? Or misunderstood? It’s not a manual for all points of doctrine for our day. The day in which we have genealogical capacities and resources to do it. Even something as simple as the Godhead has so many interpretations from the Bible. Awesome that you pointed out it’s not in the Book of Mormon. Not that you have read it… If the founder is fake he could have easily thrown it in there. Right? So why isn’t it in there? We have proof of temples in that time. We have proof of fonts all over Italy and Spain etc. We can understand Baptisms were being performed there. Paul did not need to command it. It was already being done by the members who understood it. He was using it to talk to the Sadducees who did not believe in the resurrection but knew what this was. Easier to stick with the tact that Christ did away with that. That temple ordinances weren’t a thing… if you don’t care about the truth but instead are looking for rebuttals. Resurrection is a free gift to all! You are right per Biblical teaching. But resurrection and Salvation are two different things. You are right. You will be saved for adhering to Christ’s words. You will be resurrected. You will have all that you want. So you are correct. Christ has provided you with eternal life. In some form all will have it. If you want entrance to His kingdom you have to be born of the water and the Spirit. Jesus said without Baptism you won’t enter into the kingdom of God. You said Baptism being required.. “Becomes a major problem for Mormonism…” Is this why so many temples are being built? To cover up a gap in the fabricated doctrine? No. It’s the answer to how all can be saved. You cannot answer why God would allow people who are born and who die to go to Hell having never learned of Jesus. To no fault of their own. This answers it. So it’s you that has the problem there. Concluding that it must not be of God… those that practiced it? Wow. You’ve lost sight of who Paul was talking to. Or even the context of why he shared it. As blasphemous as you think this statement is, it may be one of the only times you hear it and it’s important to me to share so that you understand… You will be baptized by proxy by someone. You personally. And you can accept this work. I pray that you do. Consider that not everyone of us who cries “Lord, Lord” will be saved in His kingdom. And that if we reject His truths and harden our hearts, we will find ourselves in a glorious place like this one, this wonderful place where we are now, totally unaware of where His kingdom is or what it represents. Totally unaware of the joys there with Father and the Son. In this we may be happy with some measure of Joy but it will not be the fullness of joy. I pray you and I lay aside traditions and bias and are open to the truth.
1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, :2 By which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. :3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, :4 And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, :5 And that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. :6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. :7 After that, He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. :8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. :9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. :10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. :11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed. :12 Now, if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? :13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. :14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is emp, y and your faith is also empty. :15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up, if in fact the dead do not rise. :16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. :17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! :18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. :19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. :20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. :21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. :22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. :23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. :24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. :25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. :26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. :27 For He has put all things under His feet. But when He says all things are put under Him, it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. :28 Now, when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. :29 Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead? :30 And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? :31 I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. :32 If in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die! :33 Do not be deceived: Evil company corrupts good habits. :34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame. :35 But someone will say, How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come? :36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. :37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain, perhaps wheat or some other grain. :38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body. :39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. :40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. :41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. :42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. :43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. :44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. :45 And so it is written, the first man Adam became a living being. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. :46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. :47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. :48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. :49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. :50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
I fully agree with what you are saying here. I understand your points and believe them to be correct and very biblical. This is very “nit picky” but I don’t want a non Christian who stumbles into this truth to stumble on the statement you make that no person can fulfill the salvation requirements for another. If we believe that Jesus was fully man and fully God, he is a “person” in the sense that you define as “person” here. He did in fact fulfill the requirement, but was and is the ONLY “person” who can. I know that you were indeed making that point and meaning other than Jesus, but I don’t want it to confuse anyone because this is eternal truth what you are speaking here, and that matters. Thank you for what you do. God bless.
Really critical point! Jesus IS our Proxy, and the only one who could fulfill our salvation requirements. Thanks for pointing that out and making it clear!
1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. You do not have to be baptized if you do not want to enter the kingdom of God. God is not going to force anyone to do anything.
# 2 No Chance For Salvation After Death? Then why did Christ go to the Spirit Prison? 1 Peter 3: 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ
One is compelled humbly to beg, honestly and purely out of love for all who have turned from the Triune God - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit… For those who would dare to even suggest that ANY of us, mere human beings, could ever, ever do anything, any works, such that we would/could be saved. For our works are as filthy rags. We are saved purely, only, and ever so blessedly by the Grace of Jesus Christ who died on the cross for our sins. Christ, the One who was, is, and is to come. No one will come to the Father except through Him. There is no baptism for those who have died. There is a narrow path to eternal salvation. Yes. Yet, it is very straightforward… Believe. Repent of your sins, for we are ALL sinners. Beg Jesus Christ’s forgiveness, and be saved. Turn from your sins, and walk by faith, as the Holy Spirit dwells within us. Please, to anyone willing, please turn to the Lord Jesus Christ, for He is God. Amen. ✝️
Perhaps anciently there was more "clarity" on this subject in the biblical canons (Books) of the bible (which was only compiled 100s of years after the deaths of the last apostles of Jesus). However being interpreted and translated many times - there could have been a time that it was more clear. However even so, why was it ever mentioned in the first place if there were not a meaning to it (or why did people practice it at all)? However some do believe this a thing and have more knowledge and info on this subject - and it sounds like its an ordinance for all that have died without hearing the word. A per what Paul said, I believe it was a question and "rhetorical" statement for us to ponder and get more info on. Back in the days many of Jesus apostles (if not all) were persecuted and later killed). So it was a "tough" time to be a believer. Anyway thanks for the video and food for thought.
The people Paul was writing to where doubtful of the work they where doing and had a disbelief in the doctrine of the resurrection. Paul does a beautiful job of both defending the doctrine of the resurrection of Christ and the baptizing for the dead. The symbolism of baptism itself teaches the doctrine of the resurrection and being born again. A person is immersed in water and lays down symbolizing death of the natural man and raises up a new person or in other words is born again. Because baptism is a requirement to get into the kingdom of God then it naturally it fallows that baptism for the dead gives all those who did not receive a chance while in their mortal life an opportunity to accept or reject Jesus Christ as their savior and redeemer. If one rejects the doctrine of baptism for the dead then other explanations pop up like Calvinism or that Christ didn’t really mean what he said about the need to be born again being required to enter into the kingdom of God.
The foundation of the church is complete. There are no modern day apostles or prophets. The men who claim to be apostles and prophets today make themselves the final authority, something Paul and the Twelve never did. The gift of prophet (Ephesians 4:11) seems to have been a temporary gift given by Christ for the laying of the foundation of the church. Prophets were foundational to the church (Ephesians 2:20). The prophet proclaimed a message from the Lord to the early believers. Sometimes a prophet’s message was revelatory (new revelation and truth from God) and sometimes a prophet’s message was predictive (see Acts 11:28 and 21:10). Can God give someone a message to deliver to someone else? Absolutely! Does God reveal truth to someone in a supernatural way and enable that person to deliver that message to others? Absolutely! But is this the biblical gift of prophecy? No. Whatever the case, whenever a person claims to be speaking for God (the essence of prophecy) the key is to compare what is said with what the Bible says. If God were to speak through a person today, it would be in 100% complete agreement with what God has already said in the Bible. God does not contradict Himself.
Members of the Church of Jesus Christ in these Last days. That is who the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are. We follow Jesus Christ, we live in the last of time, and we have accepted the restoration of the gospel that had been lost, but now restored. Our Savior, Jesus Christ, is the head of his Church, followed by a Prophet, and twelve Apostles, and so forth. Read the Bible and it’s companion, the Book of Mormon, pray about what you have discovered, than do what is right for you.
Just left the Oakland Temple The Holy Ghost floats inside of you to going once the relatives accept the invitation through The Veil. The Church is True !
If Mark 16:16 is to be believed then you won't be saved without baptism. Also what about people that never heard of Jesus? Will they spend eternity separated from God through no fault of their own? Does not seem very fair to me.
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that *believeth* not shall be damned." - Mark 16:16 "John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:" - Luke 3:16 A believer has already been baptized (immersed) in the death and and resurrection of Jesus, the water baptism is symbolic of this spiritual event. "29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" - Acts 17:30
Jesus set the example of baptism by searching out his cousin John the Baptist. Faith Without Works Is Dead James 2 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe-and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Not addressed to you buddy. James 1:1 "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting."
Ok so kind of confusing.... God commands us to be like him and gives us specific commandments (like baptism) designed to improve our behavior to help us on our journey back to him but their are no consequences nor requirement to actually follow the commandments? Hummmm... that seems a little illogical unless you don't believe in free will. However if you don't believe in free will why the requirement to accept Jesus? Or is logic not a requirement either?
> (like baptism) designed to improve our behavior to help us on our journey back to him Baptism is a public proclamation that you have dies with Christ. It has NOTHING to do with "improve our behavior". > but their are no consequences nor requirement to actually follow the commandments The thief on the cross did not get to be baptized. >However if you don't believe in free will why the requirement to accept Jesus? You have free will, follow Jesus or not, your choice. If you don't accept his sacrifice, the default is that you dies in your guilt and your sins. Logic is right there, next to wisdom, but you have to choose.
why can't you all see this it is exactly what it says baptism is baptism so you are Baptized for the dead it says it loud and clear read it. very simple
Maybe you should read the Bible again. Baptism IS essential to be in gods kingdom. Jesus said it himself. John 3 vs 5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
@@tkds56 The thief and Christ went to paradise, but not heaven. So Christ tells the thief that today they would be in paradise, they die, go to paradise. BUT what does Christ tell Mary once He has resurrected? He tells her "touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father." So the the thief did go to paradise, but it is not heaven, it is a good place where the spirits of the dead who were just and who accepted Christ in their mortal lives wait for the judgement and resurrection. "hell" is where the spirits of the unjust, who rejected Christ wait for the same. 1 Peter chapters 3 and 4 tell us that Christ preached the gospel to the dead so that they could also receive the gospel and get out of prison or "hell."
Prophets have come again to correct wrong teachings that have risen from man. Baptism is absolutely essential, Christ got baptized. Not to end baptism but to set an example for ALL to be baptized. This is exactly why baptism continued and why Christ gave the commandment to his followers Matthew 28:19. Because Satan wishes to corrupt this holy message given to Nicodemus and the Apostles, people have removed that very important ordinance from the highest priority of their doctrines. Faith without works is dead. Please dont let the deceiver convince you otherwise.
>Christ got baptized. Not to end baptism but to set an example for ALL to be baptized. Yes, he did. And there is NOT ONE INCIDENT recorded of someone WATCHING baptism if the dead.
you are using very weak reasoning here first of all if the prior words are said in a clear manner then so is the last part, this means Paul believed in baptism for the dead. also to state he did not say to practise it or not really in a non starter as you can see he is not condemning the practice either. so then by taking the text how its meant to be taken in this case literally there is no reason why you cannot Baptise the dead by proxy or otherwise. really i think Christianity has a larger problem and that is elevating Jesus to the level of a God which is pure idolatry and Blasphemy. O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.... not a triune GOD but one totality, also to say that God can die is blasphemy it is time you repent and come back to the God of Israel. but go and follow the false prophet Paul and his idolatry i am not forcing you
Those who die without accepting Christ via baptism on Earth (by circumstance) are given 2nd chance... Dead given chance to accept Christ's atonement for sin in spirit world after death but before judgment - 1 Peter 4:6 Christ speaks of how the hour for the dead to hear the gospel has come - John 5:25 All that are in their graves are about to hear the gospel of Christ - John 5:28 Christ preaches to the dead in spirit prison so they can accept the Gospel before final judgment, with mention of baptism as being essential - 1 Pet. 3:18-21 If the dead who have not had the chance to hear the Gospel are given the chance to accept Christ and his atonement after death as per 1 Peter 4:6 and Matthew 27:52-53, then a baptism for the dead on earth must be conducted so that person can accept Christ's atonement and salvation and resurrection as per 1 Corinthians 15:29. According to John 3:2-7, salvation requires baptism. Therefore, those who have died without baptism require something special: a baptism by proxy performed by the living on their behalf so they can accept Christ's atonement. ...Thus, the ordinance of Baptisms for the Dead was and is necessary Baptisms for the Dead - 1 Corinthians 15:29 Dead given chance to accept Christ's atonement for sin in spirit world before judgment - 1 Peter 4:6 Christ preached to dead in spirit world during 3 days of death following crucifixion -Matthew 27:52-53 Baptisms and resurrection of the dead official doctrine - Hebrews 6:2 The dead shall receive the gospel in their graves - John 5:25-29 The living must perform certain ordinances for the dead so they may progress and be made perfect also - Hebrews 11:35-40 In the latter days, a critical, mandatory event: the living will take great interest in the welfare of dead ancestors - Malachi 4:5-6 Baptisms for the dead are necessary for salvation and resurrection of those who have already died - 1 Corinthians 15:29 Sacred places for Baptisms for the dead are necessary, and are conducted in temples - 1 Peter 4:6, 1 Cor. 15:29 The 12-oxen baptismal fonts (used for baptisms for the dead) inside temples described - 2 Chronicles 4:2-5, 10 & 15 He rejoices that his soul will have a chance at being saved from hell after he has died (baptism being required) - Psalms 16:9-10 Ordinances are to be observed exactly as they were delivered - 1 Cor. 11:2
and this is the stuff this channel and many of the christian critics of our faith will ignore… God bless you for you well dedicated research on this work and putting forth a defense on our beliefs to people who try so desperately hard to rip us down. I testify this is Gods true church. that the book of mormon is another testament of Jesus christ. that joseph smith restored Christ’s true church and put forth the order again that was once of this earth. this church is more biblical and christian than any church that I know of. by the fruits of this church, and confirmation of the holy spirit, there is no doubt in my mind that this is Christ’s true church. amen.
![[DOKKAN BATTLE] Worldwide Campaign Announcement Video Part 2!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JpT5Voak6WA/mqdefault.jpg)
The LDS uses the KJV of the Bible and here is the exact quote from the KJV:
1 Corinthians 15:
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
One needs to read very carefully: "they".
Who are they? "They" are certainly not "we" the Christians to whom St. Paul is writing!
They are ``some among you`` (v.12). Stop perverting the scriptures.
That is a good question. Who are they? They certainly are not the Christians Paul is writing to. But they could be another group of Christians. Paul does not condemn the practice nor is it spoken of again in the scriptures as being some kind of heresy. We simply have to little information from the Bible to come to any definite conclusions.
Please read in context. Paul is referring to the heretics in Corinth. They were like Hymenaeus and Philetus in 2 Ti 2:17-18. Some there didn't believe in the resurrection like the Sadducees. Yet some were also going as far as baptising themselves for the dead. Many false practices with the Corinthians. Paul though, never mentions good or evil, right or wrong in the epistles to the Corinthians. The Corinthians were feeding themselves with the tree of knowledge of good and evil but Paul was steering them to eat of the Tree of Life who is Christ. Christ is the solution for every wronging in the epistle. Grace and peace
Also if we look at the context of 1 Cor 15 we say it has nothing to do with baptism in dead people. We can take one verse and make it say whatever we want. Context is key.
@2ColdGemini 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 great explanation. Very clear and succinct. If confusion arises always go back k to the original languages.
“nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the stewardship from God which is by faith.”
(1 Timothy 1:4)
I am no longer a Mormon but I was for most of my life. I no longer believe that baptism for the dead is a necessary doctrine of God.
Mormons claim that their interpretation of the Bible is correct. Most, if not all, Christian religions, likewise claim that their interpretation of the Bible is correct, as can be seen in this video with its Biblical justifications for its position that baptism for the dead is not required. Each claims they are the authority on Biblical interpretation and each uses Biblical scriptures to justify their beliefs and "disprove" others beliefs.
Though I no longer believe that baptism for the dead is a doctrine of God, I do believe there is a legitimate argument to be made for it based on Biblical teachings.
1 Cor. 1: 1-2 (Paul is writing to the members of the church)
1 Cor. 15: 13 (Paul is trying to convince the members that there will be a resurrection)
NIV 1 Cor. 15: 29 "Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?"
Why would Paul use the doctrine of baptism for the dead [per the video, a false doctrine] to convince the members of Christ's church that there will be a resurrection [per the video, a true doctrine]? Let that sink in. Why would Paul point to a false doctrine [baptism for the dead] to support his claim that a another doctrine [the resurrection] is true? That doesn't make sense.
Here's a specific example of what I mean. That would be like me trying to convince you that the resurrection is really going to happen by pointing to the Mormons and saying, "Now if there is no resurrection, what will Mormons do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are Mormons baptized for them?"
Mormons can also make the argument that the gospel is preached to the dead as justification for baptism for the dead by pointing to 1 Pet. 3: 18-20 and 1 Pet. 4: 6.
Again, this is not me trying to make an argument in support of baptism for the dead being a real doctrine of God but pointing out that there are many different ways of interpreting Biblical scriptures, as evidence by the many different Christian religions that all seem to profess that their interpretation is the correct one.
The mormons believe in the book of mormon more than they believe in The Holy Bible Your answers to God or in The Bible not in a book that a man made And that's the reason why I walked away from that church
I have many friends who are Mormons. I always pray over them - and that the Holy Spirit will give them revelation and they will pursue Jesus.
Any advice you can give me?
Notice how Mormons trust the Bible when it is convenient to do so.
Point to be made the dying thief was not baptized yet he went to paradise.
Paradise isn't heaven. He died on the cross next to Jesus. Jesus and the thief go to paradise. Then, when Christ resurrects He tell Mary "touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father." So He went to paradise but His Father wasn't there? Yep. Paradise is the place for good spirits to wait for the resurrection then judgement. Hell or "prison" or the "lake of fire and brimstone" is the place where evil spirits and those who hadn't had the opportunity to accept Christ wait for the same. BUT 1 Peter chapters 3 and 4 talk of Christ, when He died, going and preaching the gospel to those who have died so that they can receive the gospel and "live." Meaning they could get out of prison by accepting Christ's gospel.
@@monocuco818 Paradise is heaven and heaven is paradise its same kindly read Luke 16:19-31 it is story of Lazarus and a rich man, Lazarus died and went to heaven and rich man died went to hell now you are calling hell a "prison" and have a view that some one could baptize on that rich mans behalf and set him free but when you read Luke 16:19-31 in verse 26 it says it is impossible for rich man to cross over to heaven so bible is very clear that baptism of dead is not right, 2ndly bible says eternal torment and eternal means never ending everlasting
If baptism is a requirement to return to God‘s presence. Then what happens to those that died without baptism?
Chris Humphries,paradise is another word for heaven ,there is no "resting place " between death and resurrection (Luke 16 tells us what happens after death,there is consciousness for the righteous and the wicked....)
Mormons believe that Joe Smith restored the gospel , Jesus said “It is finished” in other words his work establishing his church and gospel were finished , Why then did Joe think he needed to do more or complete the work that the savior was here to complete ?
Because there was an apostasy. The idea that baptism is not necessary is unbiblical. One of the things Joseph Smith did was correct this error modern Christianity has stumbled on.
@@caseykaelin9430 what error has Christianity stumbled upon?
> Why then did Joe think he needed to do more or complete the work ...
Because they claim that God is 'lame' not strong and His church strayed from the faith.
@@caseykaelin9430 >Because there was an apostasy.
Id God that impotent, that his church "falls away"?
@@leef_me8112 Exactly what I wanted to ask. The so called falling away needs tangible proof if people must believe it.
Jesus definitely taught baptism as an essential part of salvation. John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit."
Born of water meaning natural child birth. During natural child birth a mothers water breaks. It's a common saying. This is evident by what Nicodemus says in the verse before. Can a man enter again into his mother's womb? The Lord's response then clarifies that he is in fact talking about first is a natural birth and then a spiritual rebirth. He even reemphasizes this point in verse 6 saying that which is born of flesh is flesh. Natural birth. And that which is born of spirit is spirit. Spiritual
@@troydickerson8275 Assuming your interpretation is correct, I.E Being birthed naturally is a requirement to enter the kingdom of God. Wouldn’t that mean that Adam and Eve cannot be heirs of heaven, since they were not birthed naturally?
@@troydickerson8275 Someone born via C-section is "out of luck"?
It should be remembered that in 1st century Judaism, the Jewish people were very obsessed with ritual purity. It was their practice to immerse themselves, a physical representation of repentance before “going up” (“aliyah”) to “God’s Presence” in the Jerusalem Temple. So some had trouble separating the act from the symbol of the act. When some Christian died (‘going up” to the Presence of God), people may have thought that to properly send them off, it would be good to representationally participate in the “sign of repentance and cleansing of sin” on their behalf. Note that Paul does not endorse the practice, nor does he scold them for it. Some people ask for communion be served them when on their deathbed. A practice that is not necessary, but nonetheless, one can understand the appeal of a symbolic act of reaffirmation of loyalty to Christ at a momentous juncture.
The last chapter of the Book of Mormon gives the reader an undisputed answer to those who are seeking to know if the record is true. I tested that promise when I was about 16 years old. I thank my seminary teacher who called me and gave me a challenge to pray to know it was true. I took my question to my Father in Heaven. My question: Is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints thy true Church on the Earth today. I will never forget the answer I received. It was immediate. It was the most intense burning of the bosom. It was so exquisite so powerful that I couldn’t sleep for hours.
I’m 62 now and I remember that night like it was yesterday. That experience has been a keystone of my Faith in Christ and His restored Church.
No it's not a Biblical teaching of the apostles or Christ himself. Please read in context. Paul is referring to the heretic practices in Corinth. They were like Hymenaeus and Philetus in 2 Ti 2:17-18. Some there didn't believe in the resurrection like the Sadducees. Yet some were also going as far as baptising themselves for the dead. The Corinthians were injecting their gnostic and philosophical practices to chritianity. Many false practices with the Corinthians. Paul though, never mentions good or evil, right or wrong in the epistles to the Corinthians. The Corinthians were feeding themselves with the tree of knowledge of good and evil but Paul was steering them to eat of the Tree of Life who is Christ. The moment Paul would've said right or wrong, he would've eaten from the wrong tree. Therefore he teaches Christ to them. Christ is the solution for every wronging in the epistle. Grace and peace
The debt is raised my grandma died this year and I testify that her spirit went to heaven that day I miss her so much but I know through the atonement of Jesus Christ I will be able to see her again one day
Thank you for the truth, this is so important!!
Followed you up until you said there is no proxy place between death and resurrection.
So what did the scriptures mean when Jesus went to preach to the spirits in prison after he died on the cross?
He was "taking care of" those who died before Christ came.
Ex-Mormon here
1 Peter 3:18-19
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the Lords restored Church
LDS folks don’t believe that baptism is necessary for salvation. That is from Christ alone. They believe that it’s necessary for exaltation. Just thought I’d put that out there as it’s a very important detail.
The phrase “on behalf of the dead” is not actually in the Greek. The Greek word can mean “for” or “for the sake of,” not “on behalf of.” this is reflected in more modern English translations (NKJV, NABRE, NIV, etc.)
The best explanation I've seen for 1 Corinthians 15:29 goes as follows:
Those who were baptized for the dead were baptized “for” them in the sense of taking their place on the church membership roll. In other words, when believers died (many through martyrdom), new believers came forward to occupy the places left vacant by their absence. Paul’s logic is, why would these new believers put their own lives at risk (knowing that baptism would mark them for martyrdom) if there is no life after death?
Those baptized for the dead were brought to faith in Christ by the testimonies of those now dead. The hope of resurrection espoused by the recently deceased believers continued in the faith of the newly baptized.
I hope this brings a sense of clarity to those that find the LDS interpretation lacking, misinformed or superficial. God Bless.
This is very helpful, many many thanks.
p.s. I'm watching with subtitles and around 5:44 where he says it's man made and can be found nowhere in the Bible the subtitles read 'can be found anywhere in the Bible.'
Thank you again for all your work and help on these topics! Grace and Peace.
Thanks for the heads up! Just fixed it!
Anyone can have an opinion and interpret the scriptures. The law of baptism has not ended. So shouldn’t this still be something we do rather than just damning them to hell?
What about those who died before Christ lived? Or those who lived on isolated islands and never knew of Christ? Are they damned to hell?
Still amazed that someone would be confused regarding that Christ taught baptism. Utterly amazing. He is very clear it’s necessary
That practice was never mentioned by other Apostles, neither by those who came after them, those who had been disciples of Apostles including Paul. And after them came the first church fathers Irenaeus etc and no one mentions baptism of the dead. So it's clear that it's a heresy and should not be practiced by anyone. It's appalling, Jesus said that every soul will be in front of the final judgement. It's certain that no one will be asked there if they've been baptized as dead. So it's also a denial of how we are saved which is having faith in Christ. That Mormonism practice and doctrine is an abomination because it can't be from God.
Actually there is evidence of early Christian baptism for the dead. Not to mention 1 Peter 3 and 4 set up the precedent of redemption of the dead. The doctrine is there, but the actual practice of baptism for the dead is not clearly mentioned (meaning 1 Corinthians doesn't clearly state whether the members were doing it, or if it was a good thing or not). But Christ went and preached the gospel to the dead, and it is clear in the Bible that Baptism is necessary, so there definitely is precedent. Not to mention scriptures that say that they without us cannot be saved nor us without them. Not to mention Jehovah promised that He would gather the children of Israel... not just the living.
So is it a sin or wrong if I do it this Saturday August 20, 2022? I’m a new convert of Latter Day Saints and they invited me to the temple to do it, but unsure if it’s morally wrong or evil??
Update, the deed has been done, and I feel guilty, I baptized my father and grandfather on August 20, 2022! I realize now that it is wrong and feels like necromancy or evil! May god forgive me! I learned so much now about the false teachings of Joseph Smith, but I’m still with the church, it will be a year on July 9, 2023! I’m not sure how to get out of the church, or should?? But I do know now that I don’t want anything to do with the Temple or Endowment or sealing! It feels wrong and mostly unbiblical! Thank you so much for this video
@@johnferredino5111 I know it’s hard to leave it, but you are correct in their perversions. The most common thing that happens is an LD member leaves the church and becomes agnostic. I say please find a local Christian church, one that teaches from the Bible. If you’re in a heavily LDS populated area, it’s a good chance that these churches know and understand what you’re going through. I will be praying for you brother!
Thank you, thank you.
God bless and Amen
That is mistakenly how many look at this verse.
It's really understandable is you use a proper Translation of the text and understand it in proper context. Paul is not saying whatsoever that people were being baptized for those who died, but that when we are baptized we are baptized into Jesus' death so that we can partake of his resurrection. If Christ did not raise from the dead our faith is in vain as well as our baptism in that faith since we were baptized in his, Jesus, name to partake of his death. It also matches Romans 6 and Colossians 2 when understood in proper context.
1 Cor. 15.29 GW
However, people are baptized because the dead ⌞will come back to life⌟. What will they do? If the dead can’t come back to life, why do people get baptized as if they can ⌞come back to life⌟?
Romans 6:3-5
Don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 When we were baptized into his death, we were placed into the tomb with him. As Christ was brought back from death to life by the glorious power of the Father, so we, too, should live a new kind of life. 5 If we’ve become united with him in a death like his, certainly we will also be united with him when we come back to life as he did.
Colossians 2:11
This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God, who brought him back to life.
Read the chapter again with this understanding and see if it doesn't make more sense. Misunderstanding of this verse has created a false doctorine and Peter warned the church that many twist Pauls words to their own destruction as they do other scriptures.
Jesus said baptism was essential in Mark 16:16, john 3:5 and Peter says baptism saves in 1 Peter 3:20-21. Faith is a process that begins in your mind and ends in your actions or obedience. .. ironically the Ephesians 2 verses you use from Paul is misunderstood seeing in Acts 19:1-6 we see Paul go so far as to re-baptize Ephesian believers in the name of Jesus to recieve the Spirit. Look at Acts 22:16. What does he say baptism washes away... in faith and repentance if course or your just getting wet...Read Hebrews 11 and realize that faith is a process that must be begin in your mind and accomplished through your obedient faith. Baptism and Repentance are not works but faith in the commands of God. Read Matthew 3 and Luke 3 and see where the baptism of repentance actually came from and what it accomplished. Trad what Jesus said in Matthew 7:29-30 about John's baptism that he continues and passed along to his apostles. To say its not nessessarly is false doctorine and goes against the scriptures.
We can assume that baptism is indeed necessary for salvation as Jesus himself was baptized to fulfill all righteousness and set an example for us to be baptized also. Have faith in him includes also to believe in what he did.
I respect your perspective, but I disagree with you on this. The Bible makes it clear that good works are a result of salvation, not a requirement for it. Let's take the thief on the cross for example. He never had to oppertunity to get baptized or anything, but Jesus told him they'd be in paradise together.
It’s not required for salvation. If we look at John 3:1-8 in context, born of water means the physical birth. But Jesus did say we should be baptized, and we should. But a religious ritual does not save us. Plenty of verses make that crystal clear, Romans 10:9, Eph 1:13, Luke 22:39-43, John 3:16-18, Mark 16:16 (which also gets taken out of context).
If it helps, here is a sort video I made addressing John 3:1-8 that constantly is taken out of context
ruclips.net/video/muXX0VxSSyU/видео.html
@@prayerwarrior7778 So we must be born to be saved? Why would Jesus have said that? That seems like it would be self-evident.
Here are many scriptures that say and/or support that baptism is essential: See John 3:-5, Mark 16:16, 1 Peter 3:21, Luke 7:30, 1 Corinthians 12:13, Acts 2:8,37-41, Galatians 3:27, Matthew 28:18-20, Romans 6:1-23, Acts 10:44-48, Luke 3:21-22, Mathew 7:13-14, Titus 3:5, Acts 8:12, Acts 16:33, Acts 22:16, Ephesians 4:5.
The dunking of a body in water, even if a religious ritual, even if done by proper authority, never has had any power to save us. The act done in and by true faith in Christ, however, is essential for salvation in the Kingdom of God. The Bible also makes it clear that the gift of the Holy Ghost (more than the spirit being felt or "poured out" at at certain time on someone) is only given by the laying on of hands after baptism.
@@homemadeguacamole2883 Paradise is not Heaven. Christ even tells Mary Magdalene to "touch Me not, for I have not yet ascended to the Father." Paradise is the resting place of the righteous between death and the resurrection. The wicked travail in prison (Shoel). Heaven comes only after resurrection and judgement.
Zach P , youhaven't answered anybody on the thief on the cross incident where he wasn't baptized and Jesus said" today you will be with me in Paradise" (heaven)...... We should get baptized but it's not essential for salvation it's more of a announcing to the world that you've turned from your sins and died and rose again with Christ.....
Even though there's no clarity on what Paul meant by the phrase it doesn't mean that the practice of being baptized for the dead didn't exist!.If it was mentioned by Paul then it existed because what is the point of mention it if it was a lie?
Good video
Why did Jesus go to the spirits in prison and proclaim the Gospel to them if there was no possible hope of redemption ? Perhaps He just thumming His nose at them?
Why was Jesus baptized to fulfill all righteousness?
When did an unchangeable God change his mind about the righteousness of baptism?
Why did Jesus fill the need to be baptized, but it's OK for Christians today to just skip it?
so if there is no salvation after death, all those human who lived before christ are already senteced to hell
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. - [ Romans 1:20 ]
And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness. - [ Genesis 15:6 ]
Not knowing Jesus isn't what sends us to hell. Sin sends us to hell. God has written his laws on our hearts so we know right from wrong but many of us choose to ignore it.
Correct.
@everyday tenor so true tenor, if people thinks that when you die, it’s over, you are 100% wrong. If people have not been baptized or received their endowment, WE can do their work for them through the OTHER SIDE of the veil
Baptism not a requisite for salvation and eternity?? What a heretical statement that is ! Did you ever read Mark 16:16 ?
Mark 16:16 clearly emphasizes that damnation comes from unbelief. The portion of the verse mentioning baptism is in passive tense with less emphasis, and can be understood to be people who have already believed and therefore been baptized.
This single verse is more easily understood when taken into context with the entirety of scripture and the clear instructions elsewhere (ex Acts 16:31) that belief and trust in Christ alone lead to salvation. Only those who do not believe are damned.
Hope this helps!
Regarding Mark 16:16, it is important to remember that there are some textual problems with Mark chapter 16, verses 9-20. There is some question as to whether these verses were originally part of the Gospel of Mark or whether they were added later by a scribe. As a result, it is best not to base a key doctrine on anything from Mark 16:9-20, such as snake handling, unless it is also supported by other passages of Scripture. These verses don't appear in some of the older, most reliable manuscripts. This is great evidence for textual criticism and why we know when something is amiss. If you're not familiar with this, Googel Mark 16, short version vs. long version.
this should have more views
MORMONS, THERE IS NO BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD.
Scripture is very clear in stating that this life is the only chance we get. Once we die, our fate is sealed:
HEBREWS 9:27
"It is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgement..."
There are no "second chances" after death.
John 3:5
Baptism is for those who have heard and believed the gospel and have repented
The lord gives 2nd chances
Because Paul doesnt say do it,does it mean its invalid.
The catholic church used to perform baptisms for the dead up until the fourth century.
GLM, there are second chances. I don’t understand what you are talking about
This might be true if we lived in an era without continual revelation. Baptism for the dead has been reserved for this final and last dispensation of the fulness of times wherein all things will be revealed. The New Testament Church may not have practiced Baptism for the dead because the time had not yet come. However, surely they knew that the gospel would be preached to the dead (1 Peter 3:19; 4:6) and that the ordinances of the gospel would be available to them. A just and fair God has a plan to save all of His children, Truly the hearts if the fathers are turning to their children as we undertake this great work.
What are your thoughts on John 3:5, does that not mean that baptism is essential?
John 3:5 is not about baptism.
John 3:5 born of water means the physical birth. If it hePls I made a video on this that 6 minutes and explains it better than I could in writing
ruclips.net/video/muXX0VxSSyU/видео.html
Nowhere in the context of the passage is baptism even mentioned. While baptism is mentioned later in this chapter (John 3:22-30), that is in a totally different setting (Judea instead of Jerusalem) and at a different time from the discussion with Nicodemus. This is not to say Nicodemus was unfamiliar with baptism, either from the Jewish practice of baptizing Gentile converts to Judaism, or from John the Baptist’s ministry. However, simply reading these verses in context would give one no reason to assume Jesus was speaking of baptism, unless one was looking to read into the passage a preconceived idea or theology. To automatically read baptism into this verse simply because it mentions “water” is unwarranted.
Romans 6:3-5
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the alikeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Also note that in 1 Corinthians 15:41-42
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
I expect that the likeness of Christ's resurrection would the the glory of the sun.
4:20
Paul is making a list of Christian evidences for the resurrection. Christ’s religion is the only religion that saves, only he has power to overcome death. Paul knows this. Why would he point to anything outside of Christ as evidence for the resurrection? It makes no sense. My conclusion is that paul is aware of the practice. He doesn’t need to command it because the instruction has already be given. He then uses the practice as evidence for belief in the resurrection.
Lazarus and the rich man isn’t about heaven and hell. It’s about judgement against the Jewish nation and their being cast off and the gentiles being brought isn’t the favor of the Abrahamic promises. It’s not a heaven and hell parable. If it were it would be having people in hell talking to people in heaven.
What about 1 Peter 4:6
I agree ! How can the dead receive salvation no way JS concocted all of this God will be the ultimate Judge and JS was judged !
The difference between LDS people and others is that we believe in modern day revelation. Our prophet receives revelation on behalf of all God’s children. Baptism for the dead is revelation. Also, there were many precious things removed from the Bible, how do you know it wasn’t in what was removed? Also, you must not be a father, or don’t truly love your children. Our Heavenly Father will not turn us away because we don’t get an opportunity to hear the gospel or be baptized while on earth. As a parent I would never look at my children and say, “You have not had the opportunity to hear of me and my gospel, see ya later!” I love my children and our Father in Heaven loves us and he wants to be with us just like we want to be with our children. The God you speak of must be different because my Father in Heaven is a loving God, and will not forsake me because of me not having the opportunity to hear the gospel. That’s ridiculous.
You are misquoting I CORINTHIANS 15: 12-14 Paul is hypothetically assumes the the false premise of NO RESURRECTION to show far-reaching implication. Christianity completely depends on the real physical resurrection of the dead body of CHRIST; otherwise, it all a lie. NOWHERE in I Corinthians 15 are we instructed to performed Baptism for the Dead.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, SCRIPTURE IS VERY CLEAR IN STATING.
That this life is the only chance we get. Once we die, our fate is sealed.
HEBREWS 9:27
"It is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment..."
There are "no second chances" after death.
How is proxy work unbiblical? Isn’t the whole Bible about God sending a proxy on our behalf whom we are supposed to act like and emulate?
I sent my brother George and he was baptized for me. Nope. So less so for me when I dead.
Jesus was Eternal God, and man HIS death ALONE is an atonement for the sins of ALL HUMANITY.
That is the one thing we can't emulate, however we can die to sin.
You say, “The whole Bible is clear about this point….”
In Jesus’ own words… (John 3:5)
“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
All that He did, He did as an example. To show us the way.
Christ was Baptized.
Are these not major contradictions to your claim? As per the words and actions of the Savior Himself??
Maybe you haven’t read the entire New Testament?
You shared…
1 Corinthians 15:29
“29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?”
This is a snippet of their conversation. A recording. Not for you. Or me. In our time. For them. Then. The Sadducees, who did not believe in the resurrection.
They knew what it meant, Baptism for the dead. He didn’t need to explain it.
In fact it’s so plain to see that he actually uses it as a common reference point to clarify the resurrection. He is effectively saying, “I know you don’t believe Jesus really rose from the tomb. You think we fakes it. Hey, you know the baptisms that go on for those who have passed, right? You are Jewish so of course you do. You know what goes on there. So why do it at all if they will not also be resurrected?”
You said, lIf this is so important it should be thoroughly explained in the Bible..”
That could be said in so many topics. If it was, would it be understood? Or misunderstood?
It’s not a manual for all points of doctrine for our day. The day in which we have genealogical capacities and resources to do it.
Even something as simple as the Godhead has so many interpretations from the Bible.
Awesome that you pointed out it’s not in the Book of Mormon. Not that you have read it…
If the founder is fake he could have easily thrown it in there. Right? So why isn’t it in there?
We have proof of temples in that time. We have proof of fonts all over Italy and Spain etc. We can understand Baptisms were being performed there.
Paul did not need to command it. It was already being done by the members who understood it. He was using it to talk to the Sadducees who did not believe in the resurrection but knew what this was.
Easier to stick with the tact that Christ did away with that. That temple ordinances weren’t a thing… if you don’t care about the truth but instead are looking for rebuttals.
Resurrection is a free gift to all! You are right per Biblical teaching. But resurrection and Salvation are two different things.
You are right. You will be saved for adhering to Christ’s words. You will be resurrected. You will have all that you want.
So you are correct.
Christ has provided you with eternal life. In some form all will have it. If you want entrance to His kingdom you have to be born of the water and the Spirit.
Jesus said without Baptism you won’t enter into the kingdom of God.
You said Baptism being required.. “Becomes a major problem for Mormonism…”
Is this why so many temples are being built? To cover up a gap in the fabricated doctrine?
No. It’s the answer to how all can be saved.
You cannot answer why God would allow people who are born and who die to go to Hell having never learned of Jesus. To no fault of their own. This answers it.
So it’s you that has the problem there.
Concluding that it must not be of God… those that practiced it? Wow.
You’ve lost sight of who Paul was talking to. Or even the context of why he shared it.
As blasphemous as you think this statement is, it may be one of the only times you hear it and it’s important to me to share so that you understand…
You will be baptized by proxy by someone. You personally. And you can accept this work. I pray that you do.
Consider that not everyone of us who cries “Lord, Lord” will be saved in His kingdom. And that if we reject His truths and harden our hearts, we will find ourselves in a glorious place like this one, this wonderful place where we are now, totally unaware of where His kingdom is or what it represents. Totally unaware of the joys there with Father and the Son.
In this we may be happy with some measure of Joy but it will not be the fullness of joy.
I pray you and I lay aside traditions and bias and are open to the truth.
1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, :2 By which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
:3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, :4 And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, :5 And that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. :6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. :7 After that, He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. :8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.
:9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. :10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. :11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
:12 Now, if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? :13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. :14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is emp, y and your faith is also empty. :15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up, if in fact the dead do not rise. :16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. :17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! :18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. :19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.
:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. :21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. :22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. :23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. :24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. :25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. :26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. :27 For He has put all things under His feet. But when He says all things are put under Him, it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. :28 Now, when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
:29 Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead? :30 And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? :31 I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. :32 If in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!
:33 Do not be deceived: Evil company corrupts good habits. :34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.
:35 But someone will say, How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come? :36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. :37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain, perhaps wheat or some other grain. :38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.
:39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.
:40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. :41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.
:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. :43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. :44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. :45 And so it is written, the first man Adam became a living being. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
:46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. :47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. :48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. :49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
I fully agree with what you are saying here. I understand your points and believe them to be correct and very biblical. This is very “nit picky” but I don’t want a non Christian who stumbles into this truth to stumble on the statement you make that no person can fulfill the salvation requirements for another. If we believe that Jesus was fully man and fully God, he is a “person” in the sense that you define as “person” here. He did in fact fulfill the requirement, but was and is the ONLY “person” who can. I know that you were indeed making that point and meaning other than Jesus, but I don’t want it to confuse anyone because this is eternal truth what you are speaking here, and that matters. Thank you for what you do. God bless.
Really critical point! Jesus IS our Proxy, and the only one who could fulfill our salvation requirements. Thanks for pointing that out and making it clear!
Unbiblical
Super biblical. John 3:5 1 Peter 4:6 .
This is very Biblical
Which part?
1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
You do not have to be baptized if you do not want to enter the kingdom of God. God is not going to force anyone to do anything.
Add 1 Peter chapters 3 and 4 to that :)
# 2 No Chance For Salvation After Death?
Then why did Christ go to the Spirit Prison?
1 Peter 3:
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ
The practice of baptism for the dead by proxy being done by the early church has been proven for years
Prove it.
That is not true
Nice try.
One is compelled humbly to beg, honestly and purely out of love for all who have turned from the Triune God - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit… For those who would dare to even suggest that ANY of us, mere human beings, could ever, ever do anything, any works, such that we would/could be saved. For our works are as filthy rags. We are saved purely, only, and ever so blessedly by the Grace of Jesus Christ who died on the cross for our sins. Christ, the One who was, is, and is to come. No one will come to the Father except through Him. There is no baptism for those who have died. There is a narrow path to eternal salvation. Yes. Yet, it is very straightforward… Believe. Repent of your sins, for we are ALL sinners. Beg Jesus Christ’s forgiveness, and be saved. Turn from your sins, and walk by faith, as the Holy Spirit dwells within us. Please, to anyone willing, please turn to the Lord Jesus Christ, for He is God. Amen. ✝️
Perhaps anciently there was more "clarity" on this subject in the biblical canons (Books) of the bible (which was only compiled 100s of years after the deaths of the last apostles of Jesus). However being interpreted and translated many times - there could have been a time that it was more clear. However even so, why was it ever mentioned in the first place if there were not a meaning to it (or why did people practice it at all)? However some do believe this a thing and have more knowledge and info on this subject - and it sounds like its an ordinance for all that have died without hearing the word. A per what Paul said, I believe it was a question and "rhetorical" statement for us to ponder and get more info on. Back in the days many of Jesus apostles (if not all) were persecuted and later killed). So it was a "tough" time to be a believer. Anyway thanks for the video and food for thought.
The people Paul was writing to where doubtful of the work they where doing and had a disbelief in the doctrine of the resurrection. Paul does a beautiful job of both defending the doctrine of the resurrection of Christ and the baptizing for the dead. The symbolism of baptism itself teaches the doctrine of the resurrection and being born again. A person is immersed in water and lays down symbolizing death of the natural man and raises up a new person or in other words is born again. Because baptism is a requirement to get into the kingdom of God then it naturally it fallows that baptism for the dead gives all those who did not receive a chance while in their mortal life an opportunity to accept or reject Jesus Christ as their savior and redeemer. If one rejects the doctrine of baptism for the dead then other explanations pop up like Calvinism or that Christ didn’t really mean what he said about the need to be born again being required to enter into the kingdom of God.
Glad to have modern prophets and apostles to help clarify this important practice! See Ephesians 2:19-20 and 4:1-14
These are FALSE prophets and apostles. The God they teach is an exalted man,
This is not so with the God of the bible.
The foundation of the church is complete. There are no modern day apostles or prophets. The men who claim to be apostles and prophets today make themselves the final authority, something Paul and the Twelve never did.
The gift of prophet (Ephesians 4:11) seems to have been a temporary gift given by Christ for the laying of the foundation of the church. Prophets were foundational to the church (Ephesians 2:20). The prophet proclaimed a message from the Lord to the early believers. Sometimes a prophet’s message was revelatory (new revelation and truth from God) and sometimes a prophet’s message was predictive (see Acts 11:28 and 21:10).
Can God give someone a message to deliver to someone else? Absolutely! Does God reveal truth to someone in a supernatural way and enable that person to deliver that message to others? Absolutely! But is this the biblical gift of prophecy? No.
Whatever the case, whenever a person claims to be speaking for God (the essence of prophecy) the key is to compare what is said with what the Bible says. If God were to speak through a person today, it would be in 100% complete agreement with what God has already said in the Bible. God does not contradict Himself.
Mormons are being criticized by Roman Catholic!
😂😂😂
Members of the Church of Jesus Christ in these Last days. That is who the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are. We follow Jesus Christ, we live in the last of time, and we have accepted the restoration of the gospel that had been lost, but now restored. Our Savior, Jesus Christ, is the head of his Church, followed by a Prophet, and twelve Apostles, and so forth. Read the Bible and it’s companion, the Book of Mormon, pray about what you have discovered, than do what is right for you.
Just left the Oakland Temple
The Holy Ghost floats inside of you to going once the relatives accept the invitation through The Veil.
The Church is True !
Have you never read Luke 16 where the Rich man and the beggar die?
Thank goodness we have baptism for the dead. It is truly the Christian thing to do for our departed loved ones.
Life's eternal, that's why, Baptism for the Dead, Temple works, are eternal. THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST, only TRUE CHURCH.
If Mark 16:16 is to be believed then you won't be saved without baptism. Also what about people that never heard of Jesus? Will they spend eternity separated from God through no fault of their own? Does not seem very fair to me.
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that *believeth* not shall be damned." - Mark 16:16
"John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:" - Luke 3:16
A believer has already been baptized (immersed) in the death and and resurrection of Jesus, the water baptism is symbolic of this spiritual event.
"29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" - Acts 17:30
Jesus set the example of baptism by searching out his cousin John the Baptist.
Faith Without Works Is Dead
James 2
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe-and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Not addressed to you buddy.
James 1:1 "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting."
So why baptize anyone at all?
It is a proclamation that you have renounced sins and accepted Christ. Paul says you die with Christ.
Why have a marriage ceremony if you already decided to spend your lives together.
Ok so kind of confusing.... God commands us to be like him and gives us specific commandments (like baptism) designed to improve our behavior to help us on our journey back to him but their are no consequences nor requirement to actually follow the commandments? Hummmm... that seems a little illogical unless you don't believe in free will. However if you don't believe in free will why the requirement to accept Jesus? Or is logic not a requirement either?
> (like baptism) designed to improve our behavior to help us on our journey back to him
Baptism is a public proclamation that you have dies with Christ. It has NOTHING to do with "improve our behavior".
> but their are no consequences nor requirement to actually follow the commandments
The thief on the cross did not get to be baptized.
>However if you don't believe in free will why the requirement to accept Jesus?
You have free will, follow Jesus or not, your choice. If you don't accept his sacrifice, the default is that you dies in your guilt and your sins.
Logic is right there, next to wisdom, but you have to choose.
why can't you all see this it is exactly what it says baptism is baptism so you are Baptized for the dead it says it loud and clear read it. very simple
If you waited to be baptized until after you are dead, you missed the point in >YOU< proclaiming your death and resurrection in Christ.
I found a book taharah is from Jews they use to do this practices has to do with cleansing washing and Purificación of the dead.
Maybe you should read the Bible again.
Baptism IS essential to be in gods kingdom. Jesus said it himself.
John 3 vs 5.
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
what about the thief on the cross? he wasn't baptized yet Jesus said he would be in paradise with him that day.
@@tkds56 The thief and Christ went to paradise, but not heaven. So Christ tells the thief that today they would be in paradise, they die, go to paradise. BUT what does Christ tell Mary once He has resurrected? He tells her "touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father."
So the the thief did go to paradise, but it is not heaven, it is a good place where the spirits of the dead who were just and who accepted Christ in their mortal lives wait for the judgement and resurrection. "hell" is where the spirits of the unjust, who rejected Christ wait for the same. 1 Peter chapters 3 and 4 tell us that Christ preached the gospel to the dead so that they could also receive the gospel and get out of prison or "hell."
Prophets have come again to correct wrong teachings that have risen from man. Baptism is absolutely essential, Christ got baptized. Not to end baptism but to set an example for ALL to be baptized. This is exactly why baptism continued and why Christ gave the commandment to his followers Matthew 28:19. Because Satan wishes to corrupt this holy message given to Nicodemus and the Apostles, people have removed that very important ordinance from the highest priority of their doctrines. Faith without works is dead. Please dont let the deceiver convince you otherwise.
>Christ got baptized. Not to end baptism but to set an example for ALL to be baptized.
Yes, he did. And there is NOT ONE INCIDENT recorded of someone WATCHING baptism if the dead.
you are using very weak reasoning here first of all if the prior words are said in a clear manner then so is the last part, this means Paul believed in baptism for the dead. also to state he did not say to practise it or not really in a non starter as you can see he is not condemning the practice either. so then by taking the text how its meant to be taken in this case literally there is no reason why you cannot Baptise the dead by proxy or otherwise.
really i think Christianity has a larger problem and that is elevating Jesus to the level of a God which is pure idolatry and Blasphemy. O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.... not a triune GOD but one totality, also to say that God can die is blasphemy it is time you repent and come back to the God of Israel. but go and follow the false prophet Paul and his idolatry i am not forcing you
what
What does John 1:1-14 say?
Those who die without accepting Christ via baptism on Earth (by circumstance) are given 2nd chance...
Dead given chance to accept Christ's atonement for sin in spirit world after death but before judgment - 1 Peter 4:6
Christ speaks of how the hour for the dead to hear the gospel has come - John 5:25
All that are in their graves are about to hear the gospel of Christ - John 5:28
Christ preaches to the dead in spirit prison so they can accept the Gospel before final judgment, with mention of baptism as being essential - 1 Pet. 3:18-21
If the dead who have not had the chance to hear the Gospel are given the chance to accept Christ and his atonement after death as per 1 Peter 4:6 and Matthew 27:52-53, then a baptism for the dead on earth must be conducted so that person can accept Christ's atonement and salvation and resurrection as per 1 Corinthians 15:29.
According to John 3:2-7, salvation requires baptism. Therefore, those who have died without baptism require something special: a baptism by proxy performed by the living on their behalf so they can accept Christ's atonement.
...Thus, the ordinance of Baptisms for the Dead was and is necessary
Baptisms for the Dead - 1 Corinthians 15:29
Dead given chance to accept Christ's atonement for sin in spirit world before judgment - 1 Peter 4:6
Christ preached to dead in spirit world during 3 days of death following crucifixion -Matthew 27:52-53
Baptisms and resurrection of the dead official doctrine - Hebrews 6:2
The dead shall receive the gospel in their graves - John 5:25-29
The living must perform certain ordinances for the dead so they may progress and be made perfect also - Hebrews 11:35-40
In the latter days, a critical, mandatory event: the living will take great interest in the welfare of dead ancestors - Malachi 4:5-6
Baptisms for the dead are necessary for salvation and resurrection of those who have already died - 1 Corinthians 15:29
Sacred places for Baptisms for the dead are necessary, and are conducted in temples - 1 Peter 4:6, 1 Cor. 15:29
The 12-oxen baptismal fonts (used for baptisms for the dead) inside temples described - 2 Chronicles 4:2-5, 10 & 15
He rejoices that his soul will have a chance at being saved from hell after he has died (baptism being required) - Psalms 16:9-10
Ordinances are to be observed exactly as they were delivered - 1 Cor. 11:2
and this is the stuff this channel and many of the christian critics of our faith will ignore… God bless you for you well dedicated research on this work and putting forth a defense on our beliefs to people who try so desperately hard to rip us down. I testify this is Gods true church. that the book of mormon is another testament of Jesus christ. that joseph smith restored Christ’s true church and put forth the order again that was once of this earth. this church is more biblical and christian than any church that I know of. by the fruits of this church, and confirmation of the holy spirit, there is no doubt in my mind that this is Christ’s true church. amen.