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Wanda's trauma goes way beyond losing Vision. She grew up in a war-torn county, lost her parents, her home, and her brother. She was experimented on. She accidently killed people in Civil War. She got a new home and family, only for that to be taken away from her too. Then there's the all the stuff with Vision. She was blipped and came back to nothing. The Avengers were no more, the compound was destroyed, Vision was stolen. No one else seemed to care what happened to his remains. She's endured a lot of trauma.
When Rio said "no one has gotten special treatment like you". She wasnt referring to Agetha long life. But the 6 yrs she gave Nicolas. And when it came time to take him it hurt Rio just as much as it did Agetha cuz she knew by taking Nicolas she would be hurting the woman she loves. Hence the "she is my scar". Despite Rio's love for Agetha she has a job to do n her job is of Great importance.
@@PhilosophyAllAlong It's obvious that's what she's referring to, seeing a lot of witches actually have very long lifespans. Lilia is over 400 years old,
@jinzo637 I do also want to suggest that Rio taking Nicky may hurt less than it seems. In my viewing. She is Nicky's other mother. And so she is sad for Agatha, and like a good parent remind him to kiss his mother good by, but she may be glad to have her son with her. She certainly seems to want that with Agatha. Being with Death is very much a metaphor literalized in this show.
A random thought also, I know everyone points out the SAW mechanics of each trial, but you also supect that they were influenced by a teen's understanding of what his mother, Rebecca here, does for a living (she's a therapist). And it could be why he might have some more control than Wanda ever did, besides his preference for and knowledge of analog magic, you know the Kaplans probably had him in therapy after the accident.
This was exactly what I needed to hear today. Losing many 💔 friends & animals by one death on top of the other. Needed that reminder that I need to get out of cycling through the stages of grief over and over again. I need to accept that they have crossed over & have found peace.
I think one tiny piece left out was the trauma inflicted on the people of Westview. The show is not shy about the enduring pain left on the whole community. From the anti-Wanda graffiti, to Sharon Hart’s flash back in the first trial, Wanda’s trauma is perpetuated through this entire town. This localized trauma could be seen as a way of showing how natural disasters (or maybe even acts of domestic terrorism) can be the inciting event to be passed down. This complements show’s depiction of other inciting incidents.
So I think that's three for three. I'm enjoying an episode then it ends with "The writer of this episode was Brianna" and I"m like...yup. Sounds about right. Solid stuff once again!
My favorite video of yours so far! I was struggling to tell people what I found so great about this show, but it's pretty much everything in this video. Thanks for summing it up so succinctly!
She outright states that she does it “to survive.” That if they try to live with witches “they will kill us.” Nicky has always been kind of sickly, but is getting worse the night he dies. “Sometimes, boys dies” whether she’s killing witches or not. His time was up.
Hey Matt, this is an interesting interpretation. But part of what I'm getting at is that there is actually very little evidence for it other than what we WANT to be the case. We want Agatha to be murdering just to save her son, but look at when she first kills those witches. Is there any evidence it is FOR Nicholas? We just kind of assume so because in one instance where they don't death takes him. BUT let's say you are right, which could be the case... What does it mean? I think it makes Agatha WORSE. What I mean is let's say she's killing people (at first) to help Nicky. Well is that what Nicky wants? He seems clearly concerned about helping with murder. But she does it, without his permission, against his will... to save his life? Imagine she asked Nicky if he wanted this? I think he would be horrified. Imagine the trauma of finding out you are only alive because your mother is sacrificing people to death. So the real issue becomes who is she doing that for? Is that an act of love? Is she respecting Nicky as someone who wouldn't want that? No. She is murdering because SHE wants him to live REGARDLESS of what he would want! So either way, she's being a very selfish person.
@@mcart4762 So I have some thoughts on that. BUT I think another interesting point is that Death is his mother (in my viewing). He's made with no spell, and there is no father (that we have any reason to believe exists). Agatha is, presumably, a gay woman. So where does Nicky come from? He is a product of the love of Agatha and Rio. That being said, also look at Agatha's face back in Wandavision when she kills her Coven. When she is revealed (stops pretending to be good) she gives a little half smile. Agatha, even back then, wasn't innocent. She was already apparently at least thinking about dark deeds
@PhilosophyAllAlong Thank you for taking the time to reply! I will answer your questions chronologically. Nicky was coughing and Agatha was trying to console him. Afterwards he was happy and giggling.
I really dug AAA because it DIDN'T GIVE ME WHAT I WANTED. I am a "happily ever after" freak. I love when good people get good endings, the bad people get what they deserve (or come around to the good side), and everyone rides into a beautiful sunset. I really wanted Agatha to emerge remorseful and penitent, ready to reverse the absolute horror she perpetrated on the witch community. But the show was like, hold up, it ain't that easy bub. Let's inject a bit of REAL human complexity into this 300-ish year old traumatized fictional witch. So while I didn't get what I THOUGHT I wanted, it gave me something even better. I'll actually think about the show for a while instead of forgetting it in a month.
1- Why did Agatha kill witches before, during and after Nicky? 2- Doesn’t Agatha’s powers work without killing and recharging? 3- How did she gain her succubus power? 4- Why did her mother say she was born evil? 5- How did she become lovers with Death? 6- What changed in her daily life after possessing Darkhold?
About point 1 and 2. If Agatha drain all power, the cgi would be the last blue color flow into her, but it's shot as she swing her arms to break the flow, as though she leave some behind. But all witches died old and ugly....... indication they use magic to be young and alive. Without enough magic, they turn back into their true aged form, way after they should had been dead. Billy is young in nature.....therefore no effect on him. Witches regain younth by magic, cheated death. Killing witches revolve the witches cheats, giving death what her duty whould had been entitled. Thus my take on point 5.
As for point 4: the term "evil" is also coined as "against what I wanted". In traditional sense, most (?) witches are evil themself , so evil's evil may not be that "evil" . Witches basically takes and not gives, so Agatha born to takes magic FROM them are "evil" to witches point of view. Therefore point 3: her power by born (Agatha's "evil"). The 300 years of killing is another thing (her own choice, not by birth).
Great episode! I really enjoy the insightful commentary from the good Dr! I agree, it would be really powerful to have Nicky be the one who decides when Agatha is redeemed.
This is honestly edited phenomenally well. Every time I see a clipped in interview it's always a bit janky but this video did a really good job about minimizing that and that's also Ryan. Gj cuz damn that wasn't as jarring as it could have been.
This was an amazing episode of Screen Crush!!! You touched on an issue that millions and even billions of people face. I didn't notice the deeper meaning of the show before but it's clear as day, now. Thanks to you and the writer.
This breakdown was EVERYTHING. Very impressive how you uncovered and discussed the themes of grief, generational trauma, and healing. Well done!!! I wanna share the video far and wide, but some of my friends haven’t seen it yet, and I don’t wanna spoil it for them. But for my friends who have seen it, I think they’ll appreciate this video for sure!
Both Jac Schaefer and Kathryn Hahn have said that Agatha was not in control of her powers with Alice. She was coming off of emotional trauma and possession and reacted out of muscle memory. Plus, she was SO hungry. Jac said (in an interview with House of R) the she was able to control things with Billy because she didn’t want to drain him and he is so powerful that she essentially got a full charge without a full draw. (Queue House of R banter: is Billy complex carbs or stuffed pizza?) Jac has also said, about Agatha’s original coven, that rather than helping her to control her powers and guiding her natural curiosity, they called her evil and tried to kill her. She’s said that Agatha’s trial was intended to show viewers her “source trauma” and explain why she behaves the way she does.
Shoutout to Brianna McLarty for writing this. I think a lot of us, myself included, are too quick to pull up a a video like Agatha, get our chuckles every now and then, and be glad that after a long day at work we got to turn our brains off for a while. It's so easy to miss the deeper meaning that writers will insert into stories... but I suppose we're often also dealing with terrible writing that's very shallow that it can be difficult to pick up the deeper meanings in some shows. I was watching another Tuber who was discussing The Penguin and how much of the show deals with the "Oedipus Complex", a theme that was nagging at the fringes of my mind, but after dealing with toddlers for several hours before watching the show, again, it's difficult to sometimes pick up the deeper meanings when your brain just wants entertainment for entertainment's sake. So that being said, I really appreciate the commentaries on shows like this where writers who understand the deeper meanings can narrate those ideas and philosophies for us. It makes me have a much deeper appreciation for the shows and the writers like Brianna, who can put it all together in an easily digestible format for us. *chef's kiss*
@SmokeGSU YES! She did an amazing job! To your other point, it's interesting though because Oedipus usually also involves patricide. So in some ways I find that perspective compelling, but I also wonder, "Who is the father he wants to eliminate in order to possess his mother?" The brothers are the likely contender for that. Certainly the disability speaks directly to the Oedipus myth, so I do like that connection. The part I would want to dig into deeper would be the problem of Oedipus being someone who is foretold to do something that he believes he could never do. But his name determines his fate (Oedipus's name basically marks his disability). So is the penguin a retelling or the Oedipus complex... OR a rejection of it? By that what I mean isn't Oz someone who creates his own future and rejects fate through his actions. From his perspective, rather than damned is blessed by the end.
It's borderline offensive that they chose to address generational trauma in this way. I can't forgive a show that depicts characters literally sacrificing themselves for a fake, fraudulent cause. Why did Lilith have to do any of that? Was her life's purpose simply to die in a fabricated reality? None of it had any purpose beyond serving as an origin story for Wiccan. This is far worse than what Wanda did, and it would be perfectly acceptable if the show didn't try to portray these characters as good people instead of the complete villains they are.
I definitely thought of “Memento Mori”, symbolic use of skull imagery in art to remind the viewer of the cycle of life and death. I thought the dandelion here was used in the same way.
The seed of life inside the memento of her son. Watered with her grief. And the soil for it to grow in only becoming available after she helped Jen and Billy to get what they needed.
With the reveal of Billy creating the road I’m constantly questioning what is real and what isn’t. For example did Agatha’s mother’s ghost appear to torture and attack Agatha or was she conjured by Billy? This can go all the way to the beginning. Did Billy make Lilia write the list of women they needed for the road when it didn’t even exist? After all the people on the list were woman that Billy had already met and interacted with.
@chefadamcooks Yes, I think there is a very purposeful kind of "Inception" vibe to the show. The show even hints at this in the first episode in which Agatha has to break back into reality. I do think one answer, though is that Billy doesn't *make* people do as they do on the road. They seem to retain free will. BUT to your point Lilia writing the list must be predetermined because her death as it was to occur was predetermined. Time is an illusion as she notes, and all events have already happened. So she both writes the list, which causes events, but she is also written BY the the list. One way to look at this is although Billy created the illusion that traps them, Billy is also trapped in the illusion of time, so HIS writing of the road was also predetermined by forces beyond his control!
Agatha killed witches to extend his son's Life. The day they didn't kill, that night Nic was taken by Death. Then after his death, she started killing for fun.
That. My take is, that she is like his Heart Lung Machine. He is not really alive, Rio just didn't sever his soul from his body. So Agatha keeps him actively alive through her Magic. And since she can't power up herself (Jac said so in an interview), she has to power up using other witches. After Nickys death it's just Anger, Hunger and Addiction.
This is an interesting point, but I'm not sure there is a lot of evidence she is killing to keep him alive. But let's say it's true... how appalled would Nicholas be to find out she was killing people to save him. He's given no real choice in that. So even if it's true, she's violating him. Erasing him for her own desire to keep him alive. So it's almost worst... "I'll use you to do something you dont want to do to keep you alive to keep doing it."
@@PhilosophyAllAlong That is why she let others believe that she traded Nic for Darkhold because she knows that they are doing worst things. As Nic grew up even he felt ashamed about their deeds, thus he hesitated to kill the witches from the bar.
@@PhilosophyAllAlong Well, it's implied. When she goes to the coven in the woods Nicky is sick, crying, and after she killed the coven he is content and she says "You liked that, did you? We will make a good team". And that he dies the night after he refused to lure a coven to their death is also very telling.
I find it crazy that a show with a character who isn’t a superhero and in a show we didn’t ask for and think we needed turns out to be one of the most creative and talked about shows of the year. And one of the best Marvel shows ever. Crazy times.
i am a therapist and i agree that there have been some people who are in therapy cuz others are concerned but the individual does not want to work. However, when I work with those earnestly wanting to get better, the results are amazing.
The one thing I didn't like a out this show is that they never made sense with the dark hold is it too stop Wanda or is it because of what happened with her son which were both false so what was the point of bringing the book in to existence to Wanda vision and Agatha all along?
In the first episode the library card was for the darkhold. The first letter of each word in the book's title spells it. Even more weird since it's not involved in anything that happens in this show.
"Hurt People, Hurt People." That's nice. I always say "Make people cry, make people cry." But yours includes the people you don't want to give the satisfaction.
i think it was interesting to see generational trauma in the show represented as the curse for alice. it was also eye opening to see agatha's CPTSD from being in a witch trial, the birth of her son and the death of nicky
This story very much reflects therapy through psychedelics. Face your trauma which is terrifying and will force you to move through it or run from it. Then face death. Either the death of the trauma or you actual mortality. And then regain your power after moving through it all
Jac Schaeffer (spelling?) seems to understanding grief really well. Watching Agatha weep over Nicky was hard. Katheryn Hahn seemed to be drawing on her own emotions too.
I like how in the first episode when Rio wants to kill Agatha, Agatha says she can't do that it's not allowed. Death doesn't take a life intentionally she cannot interfere in killing someone she merely collects souls as they die. Yet she wanted to defy the natural order of life in order to get back at Agatha after all those years.
As christian About that death balances......my take: "for sin shall be death"......(yes) Thus balanced . But sin has much more. Darkness exist due to lack of light. Sin also reject what's pure,holy,light,right,love, kindness, rules and order...........for which human has the freedom to choose. For which God will honor that freedom given (of rejecting)........to be lack of all, after death balances, ......and that lack shall be hell (total chaos etc). Btw,"total chaos" means lack of rules, including the rule "strongest wins". So don't think being the most bad rule in hell . So when after death balances("took away"), there shall have more.
I think Agatha was killing witches as part of her deal with Rio. Even though it wasn't shown on screen, an earlier episode showed her making a deal with Rio (Ep 2 or 3) and it just felt familiar, like they'd made similar deals in the past. So I think that's why she was killing witches. Not because she's jaded, (well, not entirely) but because she felt the more bodies she brought Rio, the more time Nicholas would have. Hence, the one day they didn't kill, was the day Rio came for Nicholas. But that's just my $0.02
Random thoughts. Agatha and Nicky. There's a reason why losing a child is psychologically the greatest trauma a person can experience. It goes against the natural order. They're supposed to bury you, not the other way around. It isn't really a trauma one gets over (nor is having your likely abusive mother try to kill you). But I think Agatha's ultimate arc is to channel her power in a positive way. To help other. Which is what we start to see in the end. I disagree with the idea that, in contrast, Wanda made amends to the people she hurt. She freed the enslaved citizens, but "sorry," doesn't quite cut it. Slinking away to study the Darkhold doesn't either. She hid. Agatha lashed out. Two sides of the same traumatized coin. Wanda still has amends to make as well. Before Nicky's death, Agatha may have killed out of a mix of toxic self-defense and the rush. After his death, her killing seemed more like someone burying their pain in an addiction to the rush of getting the score and absorbing the drug of their life force. This just came to me, but that montage felt like watching a bender.
Wanda had a lifetime of trauma since she was ten years old; when her parents died because of one of the war time situations that just happened to involved Stark Industries weaponry at the time. Then indirectly killing her brother by fiddling with Tony's brain, Tony created Ultron, Ultron ultimately caused direct mass destruction of Wanda's home town, and subsequently Wanda's entire country by indirect means. Then the straw that broke the camel's back in Captain America Civil War, accidentally killing people in a building(even though people would have died on the ground; lose-lose I think), etc.
I also feel like she was only killing witches initially to stave off Death for Nicky. Notice the day she didn’t kill witches, Nicky was taken by Death. Then she used the Ballad after that to lure and kill witches for their power.
tbf the witches she killed were all hot headed and tried to kill her for saying "you're not good witches that's why the road didn't appear". Like if you're trying to kill someone over verbal insults, you can't be that good right?
Ryan keeps saying that what Agatha's coven did was aweful, but we haven't seen anything at this point to suggest that Agatha was ever out of control of her ability to drain power from other witches. I don't know why we're assuming she wasn't already a murderer. Maybe the coven was actually completely justified in trying to take her down.
Great research! How did Billy manifest the world of the Witches Road? Just from hearing the song? How did he manifest how and why each witch would be healed?
I know you're annoyed how the events of Dr Strange ATMOM underminds Wanda's perfectly formulated journey presented in WandaVision and makes it now seem very "out of character" for her. But remember: She's now been tainted and seduced by the Darkhold so it could be argued that she's now making un-Wanda-like choices now due to that darkness and evil that book has seeped into her. Simply put: Our Wanda at the end of her show is not the same Wanda that started reading the Darkhold in that Epilogue and beyond.
I'm confused. How much time do they spend on the road and how much time passed in real world? How does it correspond with how quickly it takes them to work through their traumas? Also, one could say that situation is further traumatizing for Billy as he confirms his suspicion that he took over another boys' body, responsible for deaths of others, discovers that his brother's life is difficult, and he still doesn't know how to find him quickly, and still wonders whether Wanda is alive.
Anyone else find it weird that Catherine Hahn looks almost identical to Cynthia Von Doom in the comics? And that she’s just a soulless spirit with that entire series is connected to Mephisto? I don’t think it’s too far fetched that Hahn is Dooms mom because Tony and Hahn can go as mom and son in the MCU. With the leaks that Doom and Wanda will be a couple in upcoming projects, it’d be a crazy dynamic between Doom, Wanda,Agatha , and Wiccan all being connected. Marvel Studios is notorious for changing origins to fit their narrative.
I didn’t start watching this show because I didn’t want to waste time on another Secret Wars or Echo. Then it later got interesting in between but I decided to wait to see if it concludes on a high and it kinda did. But personally, I believe making the road a figment of a child’s imagination kinda negates the deaths, trauma and everything that happened in between. It’s almost purposeless except that a child has a vision and killed a bunch of witches to make that come true. I’ve not watched it though so feel free to correct me if I’m mistaken
I'll die on this hill. MoM did nothing to contradict Wandavision. Wanda did not end that show as a hero. We leave her using the most evil, corrupting force in the Marvel universe, searching the multiverse for kids who weren't hers. After seeing how dream walking works, going back and watching that scene gives you the impression that she is already dream walking. She's a villain. The idea that you can torture people the way Wanda did and just say, "Hey. That's just grief. It's ok now. Wanda moved on" is insane.
Thanks for this breakdown. I intend on sharing it with a friend who doesn't like this show. She finds Agatha repugnant and unsympathetic. I keep telling her that that's the point. The show is taking a big risk in having a deeply unsympathetic and toxic character as its focus. Maybe she'll want to watch the show after seeing your breakdown of these ideas.
But do you think because Billy created this road that whatever we see were strictly what he knows.... unless alice told him.... when agatha saw her halucination- she saw a baby in a basket.... only because jen told him agatha traded her child for power....so he visualized a baby but we know Nicky was a whole kid
So the scarlet witch isnt a multiversal entity, but Wanda is. At all possible that the Wanda we see at the end of W.V. & M.O.M. (just now realized that movie had that acronym 😂) is the actual scarlet witch and we've been following a different Wanda in the MCU?
Wow, super judgy essay you made here. As if we have enough perspective on Agatha's life to actually understand her actions and whether she was justified in deciding she is in a kill or be killed circumstance for all the witches she absorbed.
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Death has a connection to the soul stone
Missed opportunity to have a Better Help sponsor lol
Thanks for having me on ScreenCrush! So excited do have been on the show. And excited to see what you all do next!
Wanda's trauma goes way beyond losing Vision. She grew up in a war-torn county, lost her parents, her home, and her brother. She was experimented on. She accidently killed people in Civil War. She got a new home and family, only for that to be taken away from her too. Then there's the all the stuff with Vision. She was blipped and came back to nothing. The Avengers were no more, the compound was destroyed, Vision was stolen. No one else seemed to care what happened to his remains. She's endured a lot of trauma.
TRUE!!!
A metric TON of trauma! 💔
When Rio said "no one has gotten special treatment like you". She wasnt referring to Agetha long life. But the 6 yrs she gave Nicolas. And when it came time to take him it hurt Rio just as much as it did Agetha cuz she knew by taking Nicolas she would be hurting the woman she loves. Hence the "she is my scar". Despite Rio's love for Agetha she has a job to do n her job is of Great importance.
Yes, I do think that is what she is referring to.
@@PhilosophyAllAlong It's obvious that's what she's referring to, seeing a lot of witches actually have very long lifespans. Lilia is over 400 years old,
@jinzo637 I do also want to suggest that Rio taking Nicky may hurt less than it seems. In my viewing. She is Nicky's other mother. And so she is sad for Agatha, and like a good parent remind him to kiss his mother good by, but she may be glad to have her son with her. She certainly seems to want that with Agatha. Being with Death is very much a metaphor literalized in this show.
A random thought also, I know everyone points out the SAW mechanics of each trial, but you also supect that they were influenced by a teen's understanding of what his mother, Rebecca here, does for a living (she's a therapist). And it could be why he might have some more control than Wanda ever did, besides his preference for and knowledge of analog magic, you know the Kaplans probably had him in therapy after the accident.
That's really smart. I wish I had thought of it. Excellent point. I'm going to have to think about this.
Thank you for actually SPEAKING the dark TRUTH about Jen’s Trauma…
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
This was exactly what I needed to hear today. Losing many 💔 friends & animals by one death on top of the other. Needed that reminder that I need to get out of cycling through the stages of grief over and over again. I need to accept that they have crossed over & have found peace.
PLEASE DO MORE OF THESE VIDEOS! We love it =)
Yes please =)
I think one tiny piece left out was the trauma inflicted on the people of Westview. The show is not shy about the enduring pain left on the whole community. From the anti-Wanda graffiti, to Sharon Hart’s flash back in the first trial, Wanda’s trauma is perpetuated through this entire town.
This localized trauma could be seen as a way of showing how natural disasters (or maybe even acts of domestic terrorism) can be the inciting event to be passed down. This complements show’s depiction of other inciting incidents.
.....and yet they endure Agatha insanity (off world, naked etc) while she is still under Wanda spell.......at most "oh no...not again...."
So I think that's three for three. I'm enjoying an episode then it ends with "The writer of this episode was Brianna" and I"m like...yup. Sounds about right. Solid stuff once again!
They just released an hour of the making of agatha , you have to watch it
I don't have to do anything
no I don't have to watch it, dont tell me wat to do
@@MallRatsXoXoit's not to you but the creators, chill
What platform is this on?
@@khbell25 Milk TV
My favorite video of yours so far! I was struggling to tell people what I found so great about this show, but it's pretty much everything in this video. Thanks for summing it up so succinctly!
@@christopheryee4881 So glad you enjoyed it!!
I always thought Agatha believed that she had to kill to keep Nicholas alive. The one time we see him not help Agatha kill death comes
That was my opinion too, in order for Nicholas to live, Agatha has to give Death the bodies of others.
She outright states that she does it “to survive.” That if they try to live with witches “they will kill us.” Nicky has always been kind of sickly, but is getting worse the night he dies. “Sometimes, boys dies” whether she’s killing witches or not. His time was up.
Hey Matt, this is an interesting interpretation. But part of what I'm getting at is that there is actually very little evidence for it other than what we WANT to be the case. We want Agatha to be murdering just to save her son, but look at when she first kills those witches. Is there any evidence it is FOR Nicholas? We just kind of assume so because in one instance where they don't death takes him. BUT let's say you are right, which could be the case... What does it mean? I think it makes Agatha WORSE. What I mean is let's say she's killing people (at first) to help Nicky. Well is that what Nicky wants? He seems clearly concerned about helping with murder. But she does it, without his permission, against his will... to save his life? Imagine she asked Nicky if he wanted this? I think he would be horrified. Imagine the trauma of finding out you are only alive because your mother is sacrificing people to death. So the real issue becomes who is she doing that for? Is that an act of love? Is she respecting Nicky as someone who wouldn't want that? No. She is murdering because SHE wants him to live REGARDLESS of what he would want! So either way, she's being a very selfish person.
@@mcart4762 So I have some thoughts on that. BUT I think another interesting point is that Death is his mother (in my viewing). He's made with no spell, and there is no father (that we have any reason to believe exists). Agatha is, presumably, a gay woman. So where does Nicky come from? He is a product of the love of Agatha and Rio. That being said, also look at Agatha's face back in Wandavision when she kills her Coven. When she is revealed (stops pretending to be good) she gives a little half smile. Agatha, even back then, wasn't innocent. She was already apparently at least thinking about dark deeds
@PhilosophyAllAlong Thank you for taking the time to reply! I will answer your questions chronologically. Nicky was coughing and Agatha was trying to console him. Afterwards he was happy and giggling.
I really dug AAA because it DIDN'T GIVE ME WHAT I WANTED. I am a "happily ever after" freak. I love when good people get good endings, the bad people get what they deserve (or come around to the good side), and everyone rides into a beautiful sunset. I really wanted Agatha to emerge remorseful and penitent, ready to reverse the absolute horror she perpetrated on the witch community. But the show was like, hold up, it ain't that easy bub. Let's inject a bit of REAL human complexity into this 300-ish year old traumatized fictional witch.
So while I didn't get what I THOUGHT I wanted, it gave me something even better. I'll actually think about the show for a while instead of forgetting it in a month.
Wanda & Agatha - We just want to live quite lives with our children.
Marvel - Nah, you can have trauma instead.
🎵 It was trauma all along! 🎵
1- Why did Agatha kill witches before, during and after Nicky?
2- Doesn’t Agatha’s powers work without killing and recharging?
3- How did she gain her succubus power?
4- Why did her mother say she was born evil?
5- How did she become lovers with Death?
6- What changed in her daily life after possessing Darkhold?
Yes, these are the things I’d like to know! One more….what led up to her coven wanting to kill her?
About point 1 and 2. If Agatha drain all power, the cgi would be the last blue color flow into her, but it's shot as she swing her arms to break the flow, as though she leave some behind.
But all witches died old and ugly....... indication they use magic to be young and alive. Without enough magic, they turn back into their true aged form, way after they should had been dead. Billy is young in nature.....therefore no effect on him.
Witches regain younth by magic, cheated death. Killing witches revolve the witches cheats, giving death what her duty whould had been entitled. Thus my take on point 5.
As for point 4: the term "evil" is also coined as "against what I wanted". In traditional sense, most (?) witches are evil themself , so evil's evil may not be that "evil" . Witches basically takes and not gives, so Agatha born to takes magic FROM them are "evil" to witches point of view.
Therefore point 3: her power by born (Agatha's "evil").
The 300 years of killing is another thing (her own choice, not by birth).
Alice crying, realizing the curse is real, breaks my black heart everytime. 😢
What did you think of Agatha All Along?
Well put together show about relationships across time and relatives influencing people long after their death.
Every Horror Movie Era Explored in Agatha All Along?
Recap: Every Clue That Rio Is Death?
It was gay af
Amazing show! Hoping for a season 2
@@marcusyates3044bot
I'm so glad I was wrong about Agatha. I was originally thinking it would be bad/unnecessary. Boy was I wrong!
Great episode! I really enjoy the insightful commentary from the good Dr! I agree, it would be really powerful to have Nicky be the one who decides when Agatha is redeemed.
This is honestly edited phenomenally well.
Every time I see a clipped in interview it's always a bit janky but this video did a really good job about minimizing that and that's also Ryan. Gj cuz damn that wasn't as jarring as it could have been.
This was an amazing episode of Screen Crush!!! You touched on an issue that millions and even billions of people face.
I didn't notice the deeper meaning of the show before but it's clear as day, now.
Thanks to you and the writer.
This breakdown was EVERYTHING. Very impressive how you uncovered and discussed the themes of grief, generational trauma, and healing. Well done!!!
I wanna share the video far and wide, but some of my friends haven’t seen it yet, and I don’t wanna spoil it for them. But for my friends who have seen it, I think they’ll appreciate this video for sure!
I thought Agatha not killing Billy when taking his powers proved that she CAN CONTROL her powers. She killed her coven bc they tried to kill her.
She may not have been able to control it the first time, or right after being possessed by her mother’s ghost.
Both Jac Schaefer and Kathryn Hahn have said that Agatha was not in control of her powers with Alice. She was coming off of emotional trauma and possession and reacted out of muscle memory. Plus, she was SO hungry. Jac said (in an interview with House of R) the she was able to control things with Billy because she didn’t want to drain him and he is so powerful that she essentially got a full charge without a full draw. (Queue House of R banter: is Billy complex carbs or stuffed pizza?) Jac has also said, about Agatha’s original coven, that rather than helping her to control her powers and guiding her natural curiosity, they called her evil and tried to kill her. She’s said that Agatha’s trial was intended to show viewers her “source trauma” and explain why she behaves the way she does.
Shoutout to Brianna McLarty for writing this. I think a lot of us, myself included, are too quick to pull up a a video like Agatha, get our chuckles every now and then, and be glad that after a long day at work we got to turn our brains off for a while. It's so easy to miss the deeper meaning that writers will insert into stories... but I suppose we're often also dealing with terrible writing that's very shallow that it can be difficult to pick up the deeper meanings in some shows. I was watching another Tuber who was discussing The Penguin and how much of the show deals with the "Oedipus Complex", a theme that was nagging at the fringes of my mind, but after dealing with toddlers for several hours before watching the show, again, it's difficult to sometimes pick up the deeper meanings when your brain just wants entertainment for entertainment's sake. So that being said, I really appreciate the commentaries on shows like this where writers who understand the deeper meanings can narrate those ideas and philosophies for us. It makes me have a much deeper appreciation for the shows and the writers like Brianna, who can put it all together in an easily digestible format for us. *chef's kiss*
@SmokeGSU YES! She did an amazing job!
To your other point, it's interesting though because Oedipus usually also involves patricide. So in some ways I find that perspective compelling, but I also wonder, "Who is the father he wants to eliminate in order to possess his mother?" The brothers are the likely contender for that. Certainly the disability speaks directly to the Oedipus myth, so I do like that connection. The part I would want to dig into deeper would be the problem of Oedipus being someone who is foretold to do something that he believes he could never do. But his name determines his fate (Oedipus's name basically marks his disability). So is the penguin a retelling or the Oedipus complex... OR a rejection of it? By that what I mean isn't Oz someone who creates his own future and rejects fate through his actions. From his perspective, rather than damned is blessed by the end.
It's borderline offensive that they chose to address generational trauma in this way. I can't forgive a show that depicts characters literally sacrificing themselves for a fake, fraudulent cause. Why did Lilith have to do any of that? Was her life's purpose simply to die in a fabricated reality? None of it had any purpose beyond serving as an origin story for Wiccan.
This is far worse than what Wanda did, and it would be perfectly acceptable if the show didn't try to portray these characters as good people instead of the complete villains they are.
Imagine having Woodrow Wilson as you great, great, great Grandfather. What a hard thing to reconcile throughout your life
I definitely thought of “Memento Mori”, symbolic use of skull imagery in art to remind the viewer of the cycle of life and death. I thought the dandelion here was used in the same way.
The seed of life inside the memento of her son. Watered with her grief. And the soil for it to grow in only becoming available after she helped Jen and Billy to get what they needed.
@ Yes! So many layers to this story :)
With the reveal of Billy creating the road I’m constantly questioning what is real and what isn’t. For example did Agatha’s mother’s ghost appear to torture and attack Agatha or was she conjured by Billy? This can go all the way to the beginning. Did Billy make Lilia write the list of women they needed for the road when it didn’t even exist? After all the people on the list were woman that Billy had already met and interacted with.
@chefadamcooks Yes, I think there is a very purposeful kind of "Inception" vibe to the show. The show even hints at this in the first episode in which Agatha has to break back into reality. I do think one answer, though is that Billy doesn't *make* people do as they do on the road. They seem to retain free will. BUT to your point Lilia writing the list must be predetermined because her death as it was to occur was predetermined. Time is an illusion as she notes, and all events have already happened. So she both writes the list, which causes events, but she is also written BY the the list.
One way to look at this is although Billy created the illusion that traps them, Billy is also trapped in the illusion of time, so HIS writing of the road was also predetermined by forces beyond his control!
I just finished watching this show the other day. I genuinely enjoyed all of it. It was a fun show. I hope we see more of Agatha and Billy.
Agatha killed witches to extend his son's Life. The day they didn't kill, that night Nic was taken by Death. Then after his death, she started killing for fun.
That. My take is, that she is like his Heart Lung Machine. He is not really alive, Rio just didn't sever his soul from his body. So Agatha keeps him actively alive through her Magic. And since she can't power up herself (Jac said so in an interview), she has to power up using other witches. After Nickys death it's just Anger, Hunger and Addiction.
This is an interesting point, but I'm not sure there is a lot of evidence she is killing to keep him alive. But let's say it's true... how appalled would Nicholas be to find out she was killing people to save him. He's given no real choice in that. So even if it's true, she's violating him. Erasing him for her own desire to keep him alive. So it's almost worst... "I'll use you to do something you dont want to do to keep you alive to keep doing it."
@@PhilosophyAllAlong That is why she let others believe that she traded Nic for Darkhold because she knows that they are doing worst things. As Nic grew up even he felt ashamed about their deeds, thus he hesitated to kill the witches from the bar.
@@PhilosophyAllAlong Well, it's implied. When she goes to the coven in the woods Nicky is sick, crying, and after she killed the coven he is content and she says "You liked that, did you? We will make a good team". And that he dies the night after he refused to lure a coven to their death is also very telling.
I find it crazy that a show with a character who isn’t a superhero and in a show we didn’t ask for and think we needed turns out to be one of the most creative and talked about shows of the year. And one of the best Marvel shows ever. Crazy times.
i am a therapist and i agree that there have been some people who are in therapy cuz others are concerned but the individual does not want to work. However, when I work with those earnestly wanting to get better, the results are amazing.
The one thing I didn't like a out this show is that they never made sense with the dark hold is it too stop Wanda or is it because of what happened with her son which were both false so what was the point of bringing the book in to existence to Wanda vision and Agatha all along?
In the first episode the library card was for the darkhold. The first letter of each word in the book's title spells it. Even more weird since it's not involved in anything that happens in this show.
"Hurt People, Hurt People." That's nice. I always say "Make people cry, make people cry." But yours includes the people you don't want to give the satisfaction.
17:00 no I know it’s speeding a dead stick with a horse, but she was corrupted by the Darhold. I feel like people forget it.
THIS is why the show was great. I was soooo in my feels most of the watch. Now I know why. Great Essay 👍🏿
Generational trama. It is very real.
Love the long form essay format!
Fantastic insights into the deeper themes behind this show. First class! 👌🏻💫✨
Thank you for delving into Jen's trauma
i think it was interesting to see generational trauma in the show represented as the curse for alice. it was also eye opening to see agatha's CPTSD from being in a witch trial, the birth of her son and the death of nicky
i literally just watched the whole season again today. it's so good
This story very much reflects therapy through psychedelics. Face your trauma which is terrifying and will force you to move through it or run from it. Then face death. Either the death of the trauma or you actual mortality. And then regain your power after moving through it all
I love how similar rio in this is to death in the sandman
Incredible job with this analysis. Love this.
Jac Schaeffer (spelling?) seems to understanding grief really well. Watching Agatha weep over Nicky was hard. Katheryn Hahn seemed to be drawing on her own emotions too.
this might be my favorite video yall have done. kudos.
Y'all should do more videos like that. That was like, really good. Video essays ftw
Gosh I love this channel!
I like how in the first episode when Rio wants to kill Agatha, Agatha says she can't do that it's not allowed. Death doesn't take a life intentionally she cannot interfere in killing someone she merely collects souls as they die. Yet she wanted to defy the natural order of life in order to get back at Agatha after all those years.
As christian About that death balances......my take: "for sin shall be death"......(yes) Thus balanced . But sin has much more.
Darkness exist due to lack of light.
Sin also reject what's pure,holy,light,right,love, kindness, rules and order...........for which human has the freedom to choose. For which God will honor that freedom given (of rejecting)........to be lack of all, after death balances, ......and that lack shall be hell (total chaos etc).
Btw,"total chaos" means lack of rules, including the rule "strongest wins". So don't think being the most bad rule in hell .
So when after death balances("took away"), there shall have more.
I think Agatha was killing witches as part of her deal with Rio. Even though it wasn't shown on screen, an earlier episode showed her making a deal with Rio (Ep 2 or 3) and it just felt familiar, like they'd made similar deals in the past. So I think that's why she was killing witches. Not because she's jaded, (well, not entirely) but because she felt the more bodies she brought Rio, the more time Nicholas would have. Hence, the one day they didn't kill, was the day Rio came for Nicholas. But that's just my $0.02
Wow one of the best videos I’ve seen❤️
Random thoughts.
Agatha and Nicky. There's a reason why losing a child is psychologically the greatest trauma a person can experience. It goes against the natural order. They're supposed to bury you, not the other way around. It isn't really a trauma one gets over (nor is having your likely abusive mother try to kill you). But I think Agatha's ultimate arc is to channel her power in a positive way. To help other. Which is what we start to see in the end.
I disagree with the idea that, in contrast, Wanda made amends to the people she hurt. She freed the enslaved citizens, but "sorry," doesn't quite cut it. Slinking away to study the Darkhold doesn't either. She hid. Agatha lashed out. Two sides of the same traumatized coin. Wanda still has amends to make as well.
Before Nicky's death, Agatha may have killed out of a mix of toxic self-defense and the rush. After his death, her killing seemed more like someone burying their pain in an addiction to the rush of getting the score and absorbing the drug of their life force. This just came to me, but that montage felt like watching a bender.
I love how deep this show was 🔥🔥💯
Suuuch a cool video! Very in-depth conversation!
Wanda had a lifetime of trauma since she was ten years old; when her parents died because of one of the war time situations that just happened to involved Stark Industries weaponry at the time. Then indirectly killing her brother by fiddling with Tony's brain, Tony created Ultron, Ultron ultimately caused direct mass destruction of Wanda's home town, and subsequently Wanda's entire country by indirect means. Then the straw that broke the camel's back in Captain America Civil War, accidentally killing people in a building(even though people would have died on the ground; lose-lose I think), etc.
Every Horror Movie Era Explored in Agatha All Along?
Recap: Every Clue That Rio Is Death?
BOOZE has all the vitamins and minerals my body needs.
It's very nice of you to upload this video on my birthday, Ryan. Thanks for thinking of me. 🎂
I can relate, I just spent 9 episodes in your mom's snatch then wandering afterwards, "what does it all mean?"
I also feel like she was only killing witches initially to stave off Death for Nicky. Notice the day she didn’t kill witches, Nicky was taken by Death. Then she used the Ballad after that to lure and kill witches for their power.
Thanks for the video.
great stuff!
tbf the witches she killed were all hot headed and tried to kill her for saying "you're not good witches that's why the road didn't appear". Like if you're trying to kill someone over verbal insults, you can't be that good right?
Great analysis
as a sociopath, I don't think the normal-person stages of grief apply to Agatha
Ryan keeps saying that what Agatha's coven did was aweful, but we haven't seen anything at this point to suggest that Agatha was ever out of control of her ability to drain power from other witches. I don't know why we're assuming she wasn't already a murderer. Maybe the coven was actually completely justified in trying to take her down.
Generational Trauma is also the reason the past 10 Pixar movies have had the exact same plot.
Bi-cycle 💜
Great research! How did Billy manifest the world of the Witches Road? Just from hearing the song? How did he manifest how and why each witch would be healed?
"magic's just science we don't understand yet"
Wanda's character arc makes sense because of the corruption from the Darkhold and it's impact on Wanda's desire to get her kids back.
I know you're annoyed how the events of Dr Strange ATMOM underminds Wanda's perfectly formulated journey presented in WandaVision and makes it now seem very "out of character" for her. But remember: She's now been tainted and seduced by the Darkhold so it could be argued that she's now making un-Wanda-like choices now due to that darkness and evil that book has seeped into her. Simply put: Our Wanda at the end of her show is not the same Wanda that started reading the Darkhold in that Epilogue and beyond.
Yup, as far as I'm concerned, DSMOM is not cannon. Just someone's fever dream.
I'm confused. How much time do they spend on the road and how much time passed in real world? How does it correspond with how quickly it takes them to work through their traumas? Also, one could say that situation is further traumatizing for Billy as he confirms his suspicion that he took over another boys' body, responsible for deaths of others, discovers that his brother's life is difficult, and he still doesn't know how to find him quickly, and still wonders whether Wanda is alive.
Anyone else find it weird that Catherine Hahn looks almost identical to Cynthia Von Doom in the comics? And that she’s just a soulless spirit with that entire series is connected to Mephisto? I don’t think it’s too far fetched that Hahn is Dooms mom because Tony and Hahn can go as mom and son in the MCU. With the leaks that Doom and Wanda will be a couple in upcoming projects, it’d be a crazy dynamic between Doom, Wanda,Agatha , and Wiccan all being connected. Marvel Studios is notorious for changing origins to fit their narrative.
It's almost like Wanda was possessed by the Darkhold, like Evil Strange.
I think overall a magic road is a thousand times more likely to help a person than therapy
I didn’t start watching this show because I didn’t want to waste time on another Secret Wars or Echo. Then it later got interesting in between but I decided to wait to see if it concludes on a high and it kinda did. But personally, I believe making the road a figment of a child’s imagination kinda negates the deaths, trauma and everything that happened in between. It’s almost purposeless except that a child has a vision and killed a bunch of witches to make that come true. I’ve not watched it though so feel free to correct me if I’m mistaken
Secret meaning... Audrey Plaza is liquid tungsten even with a skull for a face.
I'll die on this hill. MoM did nothing to contradict Wandavision. Wanda did not end that show as a hero. We leave her using the most evil, corrupting force in the Marvel universe, searching the multiverse for kids who weren't hers. After seeing how dream walking works, going back and watching that scene gives you the impression that she is already dream walking. She's a villain. The idea that you can torture people the way Wanda did and just say, "Hey. That's just grief. It's ok now. Wanda moved on" is insane.
Thanks for this breakdown. I intend on sharing it with a friend who doesn't like this show. She finds Agatha repugnant and unsympathetic. I keep telling her that that's the point. The show is taking a big risk in having a deeply unsympathetic and toxic character as its focus. Maybe she'll want to watch the show after seeing your breakdown of these ideas.
Of all the in-episode advertisements… why wasn’t this one “BetterHelp”?
Everyone on the road had ended their generational trauma by not adding a new generation other than Agatha and possibly rio
But do you think because Billy created this road that whatever we see were strictly what he knows.... unless alice told him.... when agatha saw her halucination- she saw a baby in a basket.... only because jen told him agatha traded her child for power....so he visualized a baby but we know Nicky was a whole kid
Multiverse of Madness did not undermine Wandavision at all. Wanda was possessed by the Darkhold. How did you not realize that?!!
Bro wouldn't it be crazy if MCU made Nikki grow up to be mephisto
How do I watch the full interview with Philosophy All Along?
So the scarlet witch isnt a multiversal entity, but Wanda is. At all possible that the Wanda we see at the end of W.V. & M.O.M. (just now realized that movie had that acronym 😂) is the actual scarlet witch and we've been following a different Wanda in the MCU?
why do you think Jen was "spared"??? why was she the only one to make it out of "the Road"?
Wow! Very cool 😎
14:25 lol
Wow, super judgy essay you made here. As if we have enough perspective on Agatha's life to actually understand her actions and whether she was justified in deciding she is in a kill or be killed circumstance for all the witches she absorbed.
So..... Doug's is voiced by Ryan right?
10:13 I’m seeing the abuse of Botox as a clue……
I think agatha killed all of those witches to make up for her child who is staying alive. Giving death body’s. After that it’s grieving and anger.
Is there a separate video where you rant about MOM